Better useage of 2 or more monitors

[DMarkwick]

If one can look at the open map/camera/mirror/MFD view on his 2nd monitor anytime, in any situation and perhaps at most comfy zoom level - sure that is realistic, authentic and "appropriate analog"....

That isn't the gist of my post in this case, an appropriate analog already exists in the form of the ingame map. I have to stop & kneel to look at it, and while I'm looking at it my attention is focused on it, but I can easily & quickly dismiss it if I hear something happening another approach might be to have it as a selectable equipment and you look at a render to texture view of a map in you hands, but how to scroll & zoom etc? I think the appropriate analog is already there

[Liquidpinky]

What those with only one monitor fail to realise, I mentioned it earlier, is that it can be a disadvantage that distracts your attention from the job in hand. eg driving while on the mobile phone.
Depending on server setting you can be looking at a basic map with no player or enemy reference and that you have to still use proper orienteering techniques to keep track of where you are, all this distracts you from seeing a possible threat.
The monitor being covered by a map is also removing half/third of your vision and again meaning you can fail to percieve a threat.
I have Take On set up to have the GPS take up a whole monitor but still switch it on and off as the loss of peripheral vision is not worth it.

[doveman]

That isn't the gist of my post in this case, an appropriate analog already exists in the form of the ingame map. I have to stop & kneel to look at it, and while I'm looking at it my attention is focused on it, but I can easily & quickly dismiss it if I hear something happening another approach might be to have it as a selectable equipment and you look at a render to texture view of a map in you hands, but how to scroll & zoom etc? I think the appropriate analog is already there

I don't agree that it's quite an appropriate analog as it takes too long to close and completely obscures the player's view of the surroundings whilst it's open. If it opened on a second monitor (not permanently displayed and auto-closed when moving) that would probably be more of an analog as then, like IRL, you could quickly look from the map back to your surroundings. It seems unlikely that if a soldier is looking at their map and hears what might be an immediate threat, that they'll carefully fold up and put away their map before looking around, which is what the current situation is like.

Another way to simulate this for single-screen users might be to have the map open as an overlay in something like the bottom right 1/4 of the screen and when holding RMB it zooms to cover the whole screen. This would need to be an instant zoom/unzoom though to simulate the speed with which a soldier IRL can look up from the map if disturbed, no pressing M and waiting 2 seconds

[DMarkwick]

I don't agree that it's quite an appropriate analog as it takes too long to close and completely obscures the player's view of the surroundings whilst it's open. If it opened on a second monitor (not permanently displayed and auto-closed when moving) that would probably be more of an analog as then, like IRL, you could quickly look from the map back to your surroundings. It seems unlikely that if a soldier is looking at their map and hears what might be an immediate threat, that they'll carefully fold up and put away their map before looking around, which is what the current situation is like.

Well, I should say that the notion that the soldier is carefully folding it up & putting it away is your own notion more like stuffing it into his jacket. At least the current method encourages the player to find a safe spot first. And the delay is most probably simply a game engine delay as it loads up the map info for display, and vice-versa when put away. In any case, it'd be not much different than the second-monitor map you suggested, just that you'd have your 3D view also right? I should say that the pros/cons are so small that the current method simply already works fine. But, that's just a IMHO

[NoRailgunner]

Those people with a second monitor do have simply the advantage that their first monitor isn't for example filled with the map = they overall do have a much better situational awareness and response time! Imo it would be tenfold better to have proper (action) animations + views for such objects ingame incl. something like a "quick throw/toss" feature.

[-=seany=-]

I think being able to use a second monitor would be great. I suggested this before, and as here I got a lot of negativity about people "cheating".

But this is easily solved by using server difficulty settings (and besides who cares if your just playing the campaign or coop?). There are also many other possibilities for an ability like this other than simply looking at the map on a 2nd screen while as a soldier.

You could have it (completely realistically) display a map when your are in a vehicle (chopper/tank etc), or show you a FLIR camera view.
As a gunship pilot you could have it showing you a copy of what your gunner can see.
You could have it show you the "Picture in Picture" image from a mirror/VDU etc
It could be used for pilots to show the Cockpit instruments
It would make High Command, Warfare type games much nicer for the commander: one screen for tactical map, one for game view.

Plus many others

[VirtualVikingX]

I think being able to use a second monitor would be great. I suggested this before, and as here I got a lot of negativity about people "cheating".

But this is easily solved by using server difficulty settings (and besides who cares if your just playing the campaign or coop?). There are also many other possibilities for an ability like this other than simply looking at the map on a 2nd screen while as a soldier.

You could have it (completely realistically) display a map when your are in a vehicle (chopper/tank etc), or show you a FLIR camera view.
As a gunship pilot you could have it showing you a copy of what your gunner can see.
You could have it show you the "Picture in Picture" image from a mirror/VDU etc
It could be used for pilots to show the Cockpit instruments
It would make High Command, Warfare type games much nicer for the commander: one screen for tactical map, one for game view.

Plus many others

+1 I agree completely!

[doveman]

Well, I should say that the notion that the soldier is carefully folding it up & putting it away is your own notion more like stuffing it into his jacket. At least the current method encourages the player to find a safe spot first. And the delay is most probably simply a game engine delay as it loads up the map info for display, and vice-versa when put away. In any case, it'd be not much different than the second-monitor map you suggested, just that you'd have your 3D view also right? I should say that the pros/cons are so small that the current method simply already works fine. But, that's just a IMHO

Well yes, the comment about folding it up and putting it away was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek reference to the time it takes, rather than suggesting that the developers were trying to simulate that As for stuffing it into his jacket, IRL no doubt he'd be keeping his eyes open whilst doing that, not having the map stuck to his face so that he couldn't see anything

You're probably right that it's more a problem with the game engine but if that's the case, the developers need to find a way to eliminate this. It can't be that hard to store the map in memory so that it can instantly display/hide when the key is pressed. If it was instant like this, having the map display fullscreen temporarily whilst holding M (whilst stationary) or toggled by 2xM wouldn't be so bad as the player could instantly close it to check their surroundings. Another idea is to have the map open on the second monitor but the mouse only controlling it whilst pressing another key (or using a toggle) and when releasing that key the mouse goes back to controlling the 3D view, which would allow the player to quickly look at their main monitor and look around without closing the map (which would auto-hide when they start moving anyway). For single-screen users, if the map is displaying full-screen then using the hold M to show map method would obviously give the mouse focus to the map until M is released, or if the map is only displayed on a part of the screen, leaving the 3D view visible, then the same key that dual-screen users hold to mouse the mouse control to the map could be used for the same purpose for single-screen users as well.

Anyway, there's enough ways to do it. Hopefully BIS will sort it out.

[CarlGustaffa]

i don't see any irony here, or you belive that there will be no trims in aircraft vehicles, soldiers will suddenly become rambos and shoot people dual weild? i belive that arma should not end up as run and gun game.

The irony was that the full screen slightly delayed map on main screen currently have a secondary effect of slowing down gameplay since you can't run & gun while viewing the map, and you want to get rid of that by having full screen map on 2nd monitor even if the GPS serves similar purpose - without the extended map info additional cheat that too many public servers already use - and that have to be deliberate, right?

Some points about handhelds and eye mounted:
1) Limited size and resolution, especially for the eye mounted one. We currently get close to that with the GPS.
2) Handhelds in bright sunlight is a bitch to use, and you can't fire while looking at it (unlike 2nd screen map).
3) Handhelds have focus problems that wouldn't be present on a 2nd screen. Try reading your watch and scrolltext at the same time - you can't.
4) Equipment can be destroyed. That will never happen in Arma.
5) Equipment have battery issues. That will never happen in Arma.
6) A handheld would instantly give away position at night (since it emits light). Would never happen in Arma.
7) Making up decent and intuitive controls for it might be a challenge on its own.

Point is that there are numerous disadvantages to using these systems in real life that would never happen in a game, that would just make it over the top convenient. One of my greatest worries is that of public gameplay. We've already seen that many public servers play at (imho) horribly easy settings. When these enable 2nd monitor map combined with extended map info, crosshairs, and 3rd person (they will, trust me) - the advantages between those with and without 2nd screen will become humongous. We don't need an even worse public gaming scene. Personally I've given up completely, and I'll rather play solo on own (closed for public) server than join up on public. It shouldn't have to be like that.

And I don't get this idea about "oh it's only a server setting". We only run coops on our server, so difficulty settings isn't much of an issue (all same except AI skill). How about those running different game modes requiring different settings? If someone hosts and plays warfare (the way it was meant to, with players as squad leaders), then extended map info and 3rd person might make sense. So what happens when switch to a PvP or coop map? You'd have to rely on using different settings (so forget about having same bit different AI skills) or different server profiles where you have to restart the server.

I think TAKOH (preview) did it fairly well. Hold GPS to get a fullscreen non interactive but semitransparent overlay, whereas toggle GPS gives you the old one. I'm guessing it still didn't show extended map info (since that is mostly for commanding purposes, where you need to have an interactive version like the normal map anyway). And the interactive map still had the limitations it does today, including that of slowing down when used. If anything, I'd like the option to turn off "show own position" on the GPS instead for those of us who enjoy fighting "old style" I wouldn't mind FarCry2 style map either, as this "hold" version - it would simulate a handheld fairly well, without going over the top wrt possible resolution.

[Liquidpinky]

The irony was that the full screen slightly delayed map on main screen currently have a secondary effect of slowing down gameplay since you can't run & gun while viewing the map, and you want to get rid of that by having full screen map on 2nd monitor even if the GPS serves similar purpose - without the extended map info additional cheat that too many public servers already use - and that have to be deliberate, right?

Some points about handhelds and eye mounted:
1) Limited size and resolution, especially for the eye mounted one. We currently get close to that with the GPS.

Bring up the GPS and then sit an inch from it, now you have a proper representation of it

2) Handhelds in bright sunlight is a bitch to use, and you can't fire while looking at it (unlike 2nd screen map).

You can't really concentrate on the map while shooting at someone either.

3) Handhelds have focus problems that wouldn't be present on a 2nd screen. Try reading your watch and scrolltext at the same time - you can't.

Again, you can't really concentrate on the map while shooting at someone either.

4) Equipment can be destroyed. That will never happen in Arma.

As far as we know at the moment.

5) Equipment have battery issues. That will never happen in Arma.

Already equipment requiring batteries in A2, hell we can even have battery charge indicator bars like the ammo if we really wanted.

6) A handheld would instantly give away position at night (since it emits light). Would never happen in Arma.

BIS are already playing with muzzleflash to give away positions, why not throw this into the mix. Could even throw in some of their new lighting effects to boot.

7) Making up decent and intuitive controls for it might be a challenge on its own.

Helmet mounted buttons or even touchscreen technology mounted on the reverse of the eye display.

Point is that there are numerous disadvantages to using these systems in real life that would never happen in a game, that would just make it over the top convenient. One of my greatest worries is that of public gameplay. We've already seen that many public servers play at (imho) horribly easy settings. When these enable 2nd monitor map combined with extended map info, crosshairs, and 3rd person (they will, trust me) - the advantages between those with and without 2nd screen will become humongous. We don't need an even worse public gaming scene. Personally I've given up completely, and I'll rather play solo on own (closed for public) server than join up on public. It shouldn't have to be like that.

And I don't get this idea about "oh it's only a server setting". We only run coops on our server, so difficulty settings isn't much of an issue (all same except AI skill). How about those running different game modes requiring different settings? If someone hosts and plays warfare (the way it was meant to, with players as squad leaders), then extended map info and 3rd person might make sense. So what happens when switch to a PvP or coop map? You'd have to rely on using different settings (so forget about having same bit different AI skills) or different server profiles where you have to restart the server.

I think TAKOH (preview) did it fairly well. Hold GPS to get a fullscreen non interactive but semitransparent overlay, whereas toggle GPS gives you the old one. I'm guessing it still didn't show extended map info (since that is mostly for commanding purposes, where you need to have an interactive version like the normal map anyway). And the interactive map still had the limitations it does today, including that of slowing down when used. If anything, I'd like the option to turn off "show own position" on the GPS instead for those of us who enjoy fighting "old style" I wouldn't mind FarCry2 style map either, as this "hold" version - it would simulate a handheld fairly well, without going over the top wrt possible resolution.

I agree with maybe making usage a distraction through either holding down a button to visualise the map or GPS and with the implementation of it being a transparent overlay covering the whole, or in fact part of the screen to simulate the eyepiece though.