Valve declares WIndows 8 "a catastrophe for PC", talks about migrating games to Linux

[DanielV]

Having win 8 and steam on my laptop, its the same amount of effort to start a program in win 8 as in win 7 since you can pin programs as steam in metro. Dont really understand what fuz is about, it looks and works great. Plus the price is more acceptable than ever before.

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 AM ----------

Question: How does this really effect valve(steam)? Since it'll work exactly like before.

[Rak]

Question: How does this really effect valve(steam)? Since it'll work exactly like before.

Windows store, they're closing the system. Microsoft gets a 30 percent cut form software sold through it's store. It's about the changes to the PC economy, not because Windows itself is such a bad OS.

[Sickboy]

Windows store, they're closing the system. Microsoft gets a 30 percent cut form software sold through it's store. It's about the changes to the PC economy, not because Windows itself is such a bad OS.

Only Windows RT and Phone have the Windows Store-only requirement,
for now there are no indications whatsoever that the same will happen to Windows 8, nor do I personally expect it to.

The issue Gabe seems to have with things is that MS as Monopolist has a Store available on Windows 8 out of the box, giving them an advantage position,
and by that Microsoft will be able to control Margins, and thus push competitors out of the market.
Also he thinks that some top-tier PC/OEMs will exit the market, but personally im not sure if that's the case, why, and how that affects things specifically.

[PELHAM]

I find it strange how manufacturers and retailers attempt to sell people things they don't want. I've always found apple products restrictive and over priced and the attempt to control how you use them after you have purchased them seems authoritarian and bizarre. Shame Windows is attempting the same tactics, my advice, don't be a fashion victim and stop buying the stuff, they will soon learn. As for Valve showing an interest in Linux - BRAVO! I switched years ago and only bought windows 7 for gaming reasons as XP didn't play well with the latest hardware - the rest of it doesn't interest me as Linux these days is far more user friendly in most areas.
BIS please consider a Linux product line in future, it will open markets in Asia and Africa where many don't even consider buying windows any more.

[Kindling]

One of the best things about Linux is that you can make it look and function however you want. Want a Windows-style interface? Sure, a powerful computer will run KDE but even the cheapest OEM machine will happily run LXDE. Looking for that Mac OSX style sleekness? Try GNOME or Unity. Something functional that won't get in your way? Openbox or WMFS2. It can actually be pretty easy to be overwhelmed by the amount of choices, but you can just choose one application for each purpose and stick with it, or you can experiment until you find something that works well for your personal activities.

You have access to pretty much all the software you'll use already - if it doesn't have a native Linux version, it most likely runs through WINE. If not, there'll be a good alternative out there - don't worry about skimming forums and websites, sifting through spam as you look for software - most distros (such as Linux Mint or Ubuntu have package managers behind their 'app stores' - Linux was the first OS to use an app store equivalent (repositories). Most modern distros also sign all their packages with security keys, so you know you're getting legitimate packages. That's not to say that you can't find Linux software elsewhere - if you don't find what you need from the selection of 40k-odd repository packages, you can use 3rd party repositories (think of them as custom app stores) with systems like Ubuntu's PPAs or simply download your software from the provider's website the old fashioned way.

I use Linux exclusively and haven't found any reason to go to Windows. Games will usually work via WINE - if not on release, soon after. General use such as web browsing, organizing photos and editing documents is easy and (usually) faster than Windows.

The only real gripe I have is driver support - though this has improved substantially in the last few years (almost everything is 'plug-in-and-play' save perhaps a few printers and wireless cards), graphics drivers still have some ways to go. It's entirely possible that you'll have small glitches, especially with complex setups such as Eyefinity or NVIDIA surround. Further, as a user of a Linux system you will likely have to do some troubleshooting once in a while - it's no harder than doing the same for Windows (in Windows you need to do regular cleanups or reinstalls), it's just different enough that it will be a fairly new experience.

The great thing about Linux CDs, DVDs and USB images (that you can download ISOs for from my 'Ubuntu' and 'Linux Mint' links above) is that you can boot to them without making any change to your computer. Until you choose to 'Install', you'll be running Linux from the CD/USB/DVD - a lot slower than running from your HDD, but it'll give you some idea as to how it all works before you make the switch. Not that you have to switch at all! You can always install alongside Windows or Mac OSX.

Of course, this is just the 'introduction' - there are so many more features, distributions and techniques. By all means have a look at DistroWatch to get an idea on public Linux user opinion of distros via rankings. Everything is going to improve on the gaming side as Valve adopts Linux as it's choice OS.

Now we've got that out, I think that GabeN is rightfully cautious about Windows Live and Secure Boot. Secure Boot means that distro packagers will need to buy keys from Microsoft's choice of signing company (VeriSign, if I remember correctly) if they want people to be able to install their non-Windows OS. It's currently a token price of $99, but who knows what it could change to? $999? $9999? Not only that, but the user will have to go through a convulted process to install the signing key or disable 'Secure Boot'. Try imagining guiding a novice through disabling a feature called 'Secure Boot', what are they going to think? Obviously that you are trying to make their system 'less secure'.

The good news is that this is only absolutely mandatory for Windows ARM systems (phones, tablets, netbooks) and not for x86 (desktops and laptops). The bad news is that there is no specific clause saying that the OEMs need to provide an option to disable Secure Boot. Frankly, it seems like Microsoft are attempting to deligitimize the 'alternative OS' market. This also makes it impossible for people to create their own Linux distros that work with Secure Boot - one of the core ethos' of many Linux distros is the ability for users to repackage, alter and rewrite as they see fit. This is no longer possible, with all install media requiring it's own key.

Of course, this only applies to OEM systems - Dell, HP, other such manufacturers. There will be no such system (hopefully) for hardware sold seperately such as a motherboard you would buy as part of a PC build - or at least such a system would be an easy to disable UEFI/BIOS option and off by default. This may change, though - especially if the users accept Microsoft's terms by buying their products.

In essence, Microsoft are likely taking the opportunity (when Europe is too distracted to sue for the anti-competitive behaviour) to force these almost DRM-like measures to corner the PC, smartphone and tablet markets in the same way as Apple (or perhaps even worse, when you look at it) by locking the user out of a responsible role. Soon you'll be needing to jailbreak your Dell and HP PCs, I think.

[batto]

Secure Boot means that distro packagers will need to buy keys from Microsoft's choice of signing company (VeriSign, if I remember correctly) if they want people to be able to install their non-Windows OS.

MS will create their own keys and distribute public parts to OEMs who will put them on "W8 RT certified" HW (= no option to disable secure boot or change public key). They're going Apple way.

EDIT: I think I read that MS will offer signatures for some money. But still, screw them.

On-topic: Whether Valve is or is not hypocrite doesn't matter to me. The important thing is that it may convince OEMs to offer Linux pre-installs too. Which may later convince some SW vendors to finally port their stuff to Linux (like autodesk).

[tpw]

Great post Kindling. For many years I have run a dual boot system with windows for games and linux for everything else. Whatever Gabe Newell's real motivations, a native linux steam and ports of important games (eg linux native HL2 or, gasp, HL3) would give me one less reason to reboot into windows.

Not that win7 is bad. I held out from upgrading XP until 2 months ago, and was pleasantly surprised at the win7 experience.

Win8 however just seems to be a solution in search of a problem: a default interface that will confuse and alienate a lot of users; under the bonnet architectural changes (eg accelerated font rendering) that no-one will notice; and steps towards hardware lockdown masquerading as bios level security.

Vista was proof that no amount of press by MS shills could rescue a flawed product. I get the feeling that win8 will be the same. As the Scots say - ye cannae polish a turd.

[Yoma]

I've personally tested the consumer preview version a bit in a vmware with 3d acceleration:
-Ui rendering is quite a bit faster then windows 7 (no it's not just marketing, they actually changed and fixed a lot of stuff)
-Metro is a daft piece of crap if you don't have a touchscreen and whatever they say i see plenty of people using the start button all the time...
-I ran into some problems with specific Point Of Sale printerdrivers... (it seems they did a major overhaul of the printer driver system, this might turn out to be a big no go in a lot of business situations, wich is exactly the market where Microsoft still reigns...)
-My non-IT girlfriend spent 20 minutes looking for a way to shut the damn thing down, this is going to be a hard bugger for people that are in support functions...


I can't help feeling MS is slowly but certainly turning into something of the past, you know like the day might come that people think of Windows as they think of VHS tapes...
It could all turn out some other way, but trying to sell 1000$ crashing "surface" slates might not be the best idea when there's a perfectly good functioning cheaper Ipad around followed by a string of even cheaper Android tablets...

MS is doing the exact opposite of Apple. Instead of focussing on a couple of good products they try to do everything. They may turn out to fail at everything.
The appstore they introduce in win8 might very well be the first step to a system where apps NEED to be installed from the appstore and be verified (ahum monitised) by MS in complete Applestyle.

In this context I very well understand Valve as their market might be on the virge of total collapse, unless they differentiate.

[batto]

Valve may be also targeting Android (because it's also Linux). Look at this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...o-game-console. It reached goal in KS in 8 hours!

[MrBump]

It's also kinda hypocrite for one (sort-of) Monopolist (Steam) to complain about another (Microsoft).
IMO this stunt has another side; creating an even larger monopoly position for Steam Think about it...

I don't see how it's hypocritical, firstly what he was talking about is regarding platform openess, nothing to do with monopolies, plus he wasn't even complaining, just explaining that they were hedging their bets by moving onto another platform because the platform they originally chose (which benefited them by being open) is trending towards being closed.

I see some parallels of this in a post I read yesterday regarding the fall of Microsoft Flight, Robert Randazzo a addon developer for the MS Fight Simulator series explained that with the new MS Flight, Microsoft put strict conditions on them for developing any addons including: "All commercial products would be marketed exclusively by MS and we would not be allowed to sell our own products from our own sites" and "The inability to market our own products in the brick and mortar retail market without purchasing licenses to our own products in advance of production", they couldn't even provide free stuff.

Someone from Blizzard agreed with Gabe's comments, clearly some in the industry can see the writing on the wall regarding MS developing business practices.

Check out the post, it's quite interesting:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/358874-...hts-on-flight/