CQB??

[Irishman]

Forget about melee attacks for a minute,

The whole point of a pistol is to have a secondary armament that I can use when my primary armament as failed, (be it Jamming, or I forgot to reload or I have no ammo left) or when My primary Weapon is no longer suitable for the situation that im in, for example an assault rifle may be to cumbersome or large to use when in a confined space.

What I want to see in ArmA 3 more than melee attacks is an improved pistol system, that allows me to use my pistol realistically, and to take it out quicker and with more fluid movement, and without me having to stop for what feels like an hour in A2.

I don't want to enter a room and find that i have not reloaded or even that i have expended my ammo in the room at hostiles only to pull out my pistol and get shot and killed while performing the animation.

[Fennek]

I don't want to enter a room and find that i have not reloaded

If you enter a room without having reloaded... you should blame yourself for that =P The animation ain Arma2 takes quite long, agreed (it looks arkward, and you can't move, thats the worst part of it). I'm not so sure how fast a Soldier with a normal loadout can pull his pistol with a rifle in their hand though. It still takes time, in the face of an enemy more then a feeled hour - like now. You still have to drop the rifle (let's assume you have a sling), reach for the holster, remove the lock (you don't want to be shot with your own gun, do you?) , pull it out and point in the right direction. Sounds easy, but with a weapon hanging loose on your front it gets in the way of your pistol and your arm. What i'm trying to say is that it may be faster in real life then atm in Arma2, but i don't think it is "much" faster. Feel free to correct me with special ops insight.

[Irishman]

I agree with you that the length of time in arma 2 is probably accurate, but I want to have a fluid animation that doesn't impact on me moving about and taking evasive action etc etc.

you should blame yourself for that =P

we all make mistakes

[InstaGoat]

If you enter a room without having reloaded... you should blame yourself for that =P The animation ain Arma2 takes quite long, agreed (it looks arkward, and you can't move, thats the worst part of it). I'm not so sure how fast a Soldier with a normal loadout can pull his pistol with a rifle in their hand though. It still takes time, in the face of an enemy more then a feeled hour - like now. You still have to drop the rifle (let's assume you have a sling), reach for the holster, remove the lock (you don't want to be shot with your own gun, do you?) , pull it out and point in the right direction. Sounds easy, but with a weapon hanging loose on your front it gets in the way of your pistol and your arm. What i'm trying to say is that it may be faster in real life then atm in Arma2, but i don't think it is "much" faster. Feel free to correct me with special ops insight.

I think nowadays, infantry that has to deal with urban combat puts a lot of training time into transitions and reaction drills involving secondaries. You can be -very- quick with your handgun if you have the right setup and trained hard. Latter is important. I have read an article regarding police that said that to learn how to instinctively draw their firearm, officers have to draw and re-holster the gun blind for about 1000 times before they can do it quickly and reliably, and without fumbling. It´s all about muscle memory.

In the heat of battle, conditions are less than Ideal, obviously, which is why military units also train using distruptive training environments to put more stress on the individual soldier, so they learn how to react correctly and quickly even under stress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L03RJyHAeH0

Not quick, but gives an idea. Obviously specops who do this 40 hours a day would be faster than your average tactilol dude. What´d be cool would be different speeds for actions depending on unit experience/training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IEOt...eature=related

Better video.

[Irishman]

. What´d be cool would be different speeds for actions depending on unit experience/training.

.

Yeah, what we don't want is some sort of Cod/Bf3 "Magic" pulling a weapon out of your torso in 0.0000000001 seconds


Also I'd like to see the AI using Proper tactics with pistols, so far they just use them when their primary is dry and they then procede to somehow shoot the pistol like it's a machine gun, they don't even move when attacking with pistols, they just stand there and spray bullets at you, CQB or in the open.

[Chortles]

Good points. In reference I was just fending off the 'realism' comments in regards to H2H/melee so you are spot on, agreed.

Analogy: Sure, a COD player may never learn how to "aim high" due to hitscan... but he or she doesn't NEED to for the purposes of COD. Likewise, ARMA has scopes such as the PSO-1 where the built-in rangefinder and distance marks are actually used (and thus ought to be learned), but with adjustable zeroing-capable weapons using a static scope crosshair? You "just" find the range (the most important part of course), set the zero distance to the nearest hundred meters (and preferably move so that the distance to the target IS a multiple of 100 meters), then just aim directly at the target and pull the trigger COD style, oooh ahhh.

This isn't a criticism, this is just to highlight that what's supposedly realistic is irrelevant, what's actually implemented in ARMA 3 is relevant.

Sounds easy, but with a weapon hanging loose on your front it gets in the way of your pistol and your arm. What i'm trying to say is that it may be faster in real life then atm in Arma2, but i don't think it is "much" faster.

Perhaps not MUCH faster in real life than in ARMA 2, but better the real life speed than the ARMA 2 speed if so... I want the fastest speed possible for my ARMA 3 pistol transition time. I definitely would like ARMA 3 to support pistol transition while moving, forced stay-in-place animations (such as vaulting) are deadly for the player!

For what it's worth, here's an example of a moving FORWARD transition where the sling design essentially has the rifle fall "away" from the holster and pistol arm and then doing a pistol draw from the hip. Here's a stationary draw using a chest rig holster mounted seemingly center of mass, not impeded by the rifle or stock thanks to the positioning of the sling.

Irishman, in fairness to BI, Smookie has already discussed pistol transition time, as demonstrated in the Night Ops showcase (transitioning from the MX 6.5 mm to the PO7 9mm), here:

Have already turned down the transition time absolutely minimum of my acceptance. Current rifle to pistol swap time (full-animation) is 1,10 s (and you are able to fire from around 0,53 s). Therefore the current animation is a compromise between gameplay benefits and visual look (so it isnt just "take the grip and attach rifle to the slot").

Nevertheless if u liked secondary transition option, like for instance in my pvp anim pack, it would also have its limitations to be plausible (so no running with weapon hanging on a sling or very ugly hold of the weapon, should it be left in the off-hand variant animation), plus obviously it consumes a lot of resources and time which can be distributed better.

In the end - I saw a lot in ArmA gameplay over MP and I seriously doubt the majority of complainers would even take advantage of this if it was even faster. I wouldnt

Here (~4 mins of video) is a video focused on the rifle-to-pistol implementation in SMK Animations mod; both the drop sling and "rifle behind the shoulder" animations are shown, while the latter is used in ARMA 3 (unfortunately with the soldier standing still) but the drop sling has not been shown in ARMA 3.

As for the "off-hand variant" animation mentioned by Smookie, although I believe that such doesn't exist in the SMK mod, it was a suggested alternative for ARMA 3 to the "sling rifle over shoulder" animation for the transition, and a real-life version is demonstrated here.

[meade95]

I would settle for if your Blufor AI (teammates) could simply enter builidings with me and help in clearing rooms (as is now, they can't even do that). Something along the lines of R6/RVS would be wonderful in terms of CQC and a step forward for ARMA (only in the CQC section). As is now, friendly AI aren't even useful in the slightest when helping you clear a room / structrue.

[Iroquois Pliskin]

Forget about melee attacks for a minute,

The whole point of a pistol is to have a secondary armament that I can use when my primary armament as failed, (be it Jamming, or I forgot to reload or I have no ammo left) or when My primary Weapon is no longer suitable for the situation that im in, for example an assault rifle may be to cumbersome or large to use when in a confined space.

What I want to see in ArmA 3 more than melee attacks is an improved pistol system, that allows me to use my pistol realistically, and to take it out quicker and with more fluid movement, and without me having to stop for what feels like an hour in A2.

+1

The pistol mechanics and animation in ArmA II is so abhorrent, that I would almost never switch to my secondary, even if I was engaging indoors and had a bolt-action rifle. Simply put, handguns are unusable - fixing gunplay should be utmost priority for CQB.

[Chortles]

Iroquois Pliskin, what specifically was it that you didn't like about them in ARMA 2? In my case, it was all about the transition, which was both stationary (keeping your character stuck in place) and so slow that you were best off switching to a pistol OUTSIDE the door that you would be going through... I ended up having to deal with this in one of the OA campaign missions, you see, and somehow my character STILL got wounded.

For what it's worth, the ARMA 3 GameStar.DE interview series' introductory video (1/7) has the player briefly using a PO7 (seemingly a renamed Glock) at the shooting range with first-person rifle-to-pistol transition and first/third-person pistol-to-rifle transition, and the official Night Ops showcase (the one Jay Crowe narrated) has the PO7 being used at night both suppressed and unsuppressed after a third-person rifle-to-pistol transition. While the question of "can you move while transitioning the same way that you can reload on the move?" is unanswered, Smookie has discussed the transition time.

[Smookie]

Movement with pistols has been greatly upgraded and is just as smooth as (or even slightly more than) with rifle. Transition on the move is technically possible (to some limited extent - like only during walk; also will consume huge ammount of animational resources) and its implementation will be considered.