Sounds like Java is a nice 'middle-ground' to start with: easy and relatively forgiving to get me some momentum, could actually lead to some employment given it is WIDEY used and is applicable in the growing mobile apps world. Going down toward the machine code sounds a little daunting for my first steps
Well, to be honest, C++ teaches you discipline when managing variables and memory, since it's all manually assigned/cleared.
During uni classes on C++ objective programming (entry level) I have seen people have plenty of problems adapting a new pipeline where they had to think about those two things ahead. They usually wrote their code fast but got stuck on debugging and it was discouraging.
With C++ you kinda have to have the data structure figured out ahead of time and know what is happening in memory at byte level.
It would be boring and tiring to start from theory (how is memory assigned, when to operate on pointers etc.) and proceed to learn practical C++, so people recommend going with simpler language and then re-learning things when transferring to C++. It's fine but you might find yourself trying C++ once later and getting stuck in Java forever.
I suspect this is why Minecraft was in Java...
Thanks Panda, very useful insight.
Based on responses by knowledgeable programmers in the five different threads I've started in different game forums, I think I have enough basic orientation to talk to my OST person and let her help me decide how to start.
Sounds like starting with C++ could be very 'painful' and discouraging
Starting with Python or Java are it seems an easier and less 'risky' (in terms of getting bogged down) option, but with risks of 'learning bad habits' and only forestalling some of the difficulties of learning C++
One of the EVE Online devs posted an interesting post
Given that one of the games I've been interested in modding for a long time uses its own weird language interfaced with Python (Mount&Blade Warband) that predisposes me to start with Python -> get into making mods quicker = practical experience.Originally Posted by CCP Guard
---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------
I'm leaning toward perhaps simultaneously taking an introductory Python and an introductory Java course. OST courses have no 'deadline' to finish. If I get stumped, bored or discouraged in one of them, I can just switch to the other one a bit. Both would seem to offer complimentary benefits for a starter.
ADDIT: plus, both have cool names
It's definitely the best Idea to learn programming with small goals. So modding is definitely the best you can do.
EvE on-line is programmed in Python, if not entirely, at least a great part of it.
I don't know about Python, but if you prefer some easier approach, Java or C# are your choices. C# with VS and .NET is very user-friendly. Java is great too, i'm not familiar with it, but the code is very similar to C# and millions of people and smartphones can't be wrong.
Panda has a point (a big one), C++ is de ideal thing if you are serious about learning programming in general on PC. It teaches you a lot, and it's not that difficult. It's a good base from which you can later jump into C#. You will find C#/Java extremely easy coming from C++ . I may be wrong, but that was the experience i had...
P.S: I like your taste in games ... Arma 2, Rome total War, Eve On-line. I like you
Just please please please study up on your math. Oh dear god is it important, lol.
I for my part learned programming with Turbo Pascal - it has not one of this guis where you have to study the GUI first before starting to work with it. It is simple to use and you can invest more time on thinking about algorithms then about syntax errors (debugger gives you very good information on why something does not work), so you don't have to fiddle with it. Later on we used delphi to learn object oriented programming, and then Java, JSP, C, parser and scripts.
Another tip regarding languages - do not try to learn different languages at the same time - it will confuse you more then it helps - I notice it always again at work, while working with C, C++ and C# Projects - when I have to edit a Project in a different language than the current one, the first hours I always cross some differences and ask myself, why it won't work.
Another tip regarding compilers - if you want to learn C, try to use a compiler that does not allow mixing C and C++. Why? Because if you have to use another compiler in the future, that one might be a very strict one.
Another tip regarding first steps - Hello World should be the first thing you need to accomplish - even once you are a Master Master super Master of Masters - it's never wrong to let your computer tell hello to the world
my 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288 cents
Java is an convoluted POS that is so object obsessed it makes no sense.
Python is the best programming language there is. However its runtime environment('s) leaves a lot to wish for especially in terms of performance.
With Arma making the unfortunate move to Java I guess ill make a fifth attempt to learn it. Generally I give up when I cant properly set up the massive IDE's Java requires to even do hello world and there is never any good documentation them. Last time was with Take on Helis but the options the setup guide directed me to did not exist.
People say Java is easy and great to learn but they are full of crap. I have experience in C and Python since almost 10 years but i cant for the life of me understand the IDE´s Java hides behind. First you learn the language and then you use the tools around it, not the other way around.
Sorry if I got a bit passionate. I'm hopefully going back to proper school this fall to study Java. I guess we'll see then.
Spoiler:
Java doesn't require IDEs. In fact I passed my first semester with jEdit/Notepad++ alone, since managing a few classes and imports wasn't that much work. I can relate to what you feel though. I feel python has bad documentation and is tedious to learn.
Java, at least in the corporate environment is acronym hell, package hell, dependency hell... etc. Java is hell.
Nothing against most of the syntax though, its just ... yea some of the packages are rather obtuse to say the least.
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