TPWC AI suppression system

[ChrisB]

I am going to try this, always welcome new ai mods.

However this is not new, we have had suppression fire for some time in GL4 & SLX, both work really well, in-fact if your playing veteran level or lower, GL4 will put a message up on your map if you have managed to get the enemy suppressed. SLX works in a similar way, also giving ai reactions via shake going prone etc..

Still this may well be a better system, will give it a try.

Does it clash with GL4 or SLX ? Or can it be used alongside.

I have just posted in General regarding ai and their reactions using GL4 & SLX, or should I say parts of each.

Thank you for the mod.

[metalcraze]

When will you want to MP test it?

I haven't played ArmA in MP for a while, might as well get back to form in a test :>

[Orcinus]

Ok, after 30 mins of trying this mod out with ASR AI I've noticed three things preemptively (Full/Mode 3):

1) The AI is a lot more accurate than they were with only ASR AI active. My squads and I for that matter keep getting wiped out.

2) The AI (both sides) is getting suppressed by enemy fire only after 2-3 shots from enemy fire.

3) A possible future script lag issue (if the mission is persistent) because dead bodies remained suppressed (Red markers over the dead's heads even after the bodies are 'cleaned up' by the mission, not completely sure if this would raise an issue later or not but is possible).

Please note that these comments are not set in stone as of yet as I'm still testing the different configurations out. This is a great work, FINALLY everybody's hitting the floor after being shot at though! That was the first thing I noticed at initial contact.

I confirm this pretty much on the basis of testing with the previous version last night. However, asr_ai v1.15 alone does seem to increase AI accuracy compared to v1.14 - I think that is not entirely surprising, the whole point of the changes to stance was so that MG, AR & snipers would shoot better.

In terms of suppression - I'm not sure if the aiming shake, etc., kicks in as soon as a unit drops to a crouch, or to what extent (i.e. from a single bullet passing) - but from a crouch they will aim better than in a standing position.

I'll probably end up tweaking Robalo's config to lessen default accuracy somewhat. But even as they are now, firefights are hugely improved (haven't tried CQB yet).

[tpw]

I am going to try this, always welcome new ai mods.

However this is not new, we have had suppression fire for some time in GL4 & SLX, both work really well, in-fact if your playing veteran level or lower, GL4 will put a message up on your map if you have managed to get the enemy suppressed. SLX works in a similar way, also giving ai reactions via shake going prone etc..

Still this may well be a better system, will give it a try.

Does it clash with GL4 or SLX ? Or can it be used alongside.

I have just posted in General regarding ai and their reactions using GL4 & SLX, or should I say parts of each.

Thank you for the mod.

Thanks ChrisB

I'm aware that there have been other AI suppression systems, but had never seen any that reacted to the actual passing bullets.

I've played with SLX (COSLX) for some time and never been able to suppress anyone by firing bullets past their head. Into the ground nearby maybe. Or maybe I'm missing something (possible, since I am a useless old bastard).

Anyway, play with this addon, and use it if you like it. We had fun making it and involving people with it, even if it turns out we reinvented the wheel!

[guyfawkestom]

Hi GFt. I specifically tried out sniper rifles when we were developing this, because I was worried that the high velocity projectiles would pass through the 10m detection radius too quickly. The various 7.62 and 12.7mm rifles I tried all worked. Can you tell me which one is causing the problem?

AI already react to nearby explosions to some extent I thought. I'm not sure the best way to go about suppressing them with explosions but could probably have them react to the actual grenade projectile. Might be something to consider for v1.01, thanks!

I tried the "B_127x99_Ball_noTracer" ammunition, and the dragunov one, and even after unloading a mag the red balls did not appear. But I'll try a bit more, it may be a question of FPS ?

My point was rather when a AI group is patrolling, and a hidden sniper is shooting down one unit, that every body could be suppressed. I also thought about artillery explosion, and finally about IEDs. That's why i f I knew which part of the code trigger the suppressed mode, I'll could do research on my side, and let you know... For instance, if I remember well Artillery create a crater at the explosion. Perhaps AI could try to detect crater around and become suppressed ?

But this is only ideas, what you did is already wonderful, i cannot stop trying since I ran the script for the first time !

[[GR]Operative]

Eagerly waiting for some serious (extended) firefight video!!!

[ChrisB]

Thanks ChrisB

I'm aware that there have been other AI suppression systems, but had never seen any that reacted to the actual passing bullets.

I've played with SLX (COSLX) for some time and never been able to suppress anyone by firing bullets past their head. Into the ground nearby maybe. Or maybe I'm missing something (possible, since I am a useless old bastard).

Anyway, play with this addon, and use it if you like it. We had fun making it and involving people with it, even if it turns out we reinvented the wheel!

I am the same (useless old bastard), 53 this year playing since ofp and loving every mod made I think, especially ai mods. Play as part of a group, so will spread the word.

I have it and a simple mission (I have for testing) running with it in, so will post with results.

Am looking forward to using it.

Thanks again.

[GiorgyGR]

Thanks for your work.
At last-i can see we are getting in the right way to have a 'more proper' AI..
I read it works fine with ASR_AI..but i m wondering on something.
ASR_AI 'randomizes' various skill components for each unit.
After your 'suppression effect' -values return to a 'default' number? ..
or to the values given by ASR_AI i.e.?

[tpw]

I tried the "B_127x99_Ball_noTracer" ammunition, and the dragunov one, and even after unloading a mag the red balls did not appear. But I'll try a bit more, it may be a question of FPS ?

My point was rather when a AI group is patrolling, and a hidden sniper is shooting down one unit, that every body could be suppressed. I also thought about artillery explosion, and finally about IEDs. That's why i f I knew which part of the code trigger the suppressed mode, I'll could do research on my side, and let you know... For instance, if I remember well Artillery create a crater at the explosion. Perhaps AI could try to detect crater around and become suppressed ?

But this is only ideas, what you did is already wonderful, i cannot stop trying since I ran the script for the first time !

OK, last post before I head off to bed after a long day of Arma nerdism. -Coulum- can hopefully take over while I sleep (good thing about this Australia/Canada collaboration)!

Stupid question GFt: you were more than 25m away when trying to suppress right? After your last post I went back in and did a lot of sniping with decent success. If I sniped out a baddy in a patrol, anyone else within 10m of him was suppressed - but only crouched because I only shot one bullet in 5 seconds. I have a shit computer which routinely drops below 30fps and it still worked.

The code which does the reacting to projectiles is

if !(isnull tpwc_ai_sup_bullet) then   
            {  
            _bc = count ((getposatl _unit) nearobjects ["bulletbase",tpwc_ai_sup_br]);  
            if (_bc > 0) then   ...... 

Firstly, there has to actually be an active bullet object on the map, and if so, then nearobjects ["bulletbase" counts how many bullet objects are within tpwc_ai_sup_br (10m) of the unit. This means the computationally expensive nearobjects function only runs when it needs to. I guess you could make it try to detect things other than bulletbase, but you might run into the problem that a static thing like a crater will be counted over and over, every frame. Still, it could be finessed.

All food for thought.

[.kju [PvPscene]]

Currently there is no "suppressed" eventhandler in the game engine, so TPWCAS aims to mimic one by using CBA to set up a per frame eventhandler, which checks whether there is currently an active bullet/shell projectile object, and if so then checks whether each unit has any bullets within a 10m radius. This allows TPWCAS to work for any opfor, blufor, independent or civilian on the map, whether editor-placed or spawned, without a crippling CPU overhead.

tpw you may understand this right, but others probably don't. The PFEH is no silver or magic bullet. It is only a tool to ensure timely execution.
While I haven't checked your code, it sounds like you are doing non trivial checks there.
In other words combining this script/addon with other script heavy missions/scripts/addons, may lead to script lag. Aka delayed script execution.
Not of your code, but of the others.
Therefore it is imperative to keep the checks simple. While for some use cases / scenarios, this approach may be fine, for others it seems way too aggressive.

Again no general criticism, yet only to give everyone a broader perspective.

PS: My judgement be very wrong and I am always open to learn from others.