X-Ray Vision AI

[Anthropoid]

Several times now I have tested AI ability to see in almost pitch black, moonless and slightly overcast nights.

Despite the fact that when I take over any of the teammates who are not wearing night vision, I can't see jack shit. AI enemies who are NOT wearing NVGs go out on patrols, engage my troops, wound and kill them.

For a game that is supposdly so sussed up on its 'realism' this to me is absolutely ridiculous. As far as I can tell NVGs are effectively useless because the AI can basically see in the dark even without them. My troops are just as guilty of it as the enemy AI.

There must be a mod that fixes this; wait, no . . . there probably isn't because the code behind "sighting" enemies is probably inaccessible, and part of the reason why a seemingly impossible glimpses of the enemy just around the flank of a wooded hills side or beyond the crest of a wooded hillside seem so common.

[metalcraze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNu4H9r-P9Y#t=5m30s

Overexaggerating much?

[Nicholas]

How are you testing this? I have no problems. You must also remember that the AI can hear you.

[Anthropoid]

Most recently my team of four all wearing NV goggles vs. a team of 7 Chedaki in the Lost scenario. We snuck up on them and engaged them from a wooded uphill position all in prone posture taking out 3 immediately. Instead of hunkering down to figure out what was going on, some of them flanked ourposition and managed to wound 2 and kill one before we killed all of them. Not a NVG in ANY of their gear, and like I said, this is so dark that when I take off my NVG I literally cannot see a soldier or ammo crate right in front of my face, even out in the open where the little bit of starlight lights things up. This was the third time I have had a costly nighttime engagement like this with this mission. Similar experiences with AA Team mission, and Freedom Fighters for that matter. In sum, I have observed that dead AI with no NVGs nonetheless put up one helluva nighttime fight prior to being killed.

If the AI was as completely blind as I am when I take off my NVG, there is no way it would charge to flank based on a muzzle burst and hope to get a lucky shot. When it is pitch dark, that is a lot of guesswork. The only thing I can guess is that, it is not 'pitch dark' to the AI.

Unless the AI in the video are scripted to be 'careless' or some other similar setting, it does suggest that perhaps it is possible to turn down AI night time sensitivity. My guess though is scripted.

It would seem i am not alone in finding AI spotting at night to be excessive. A quote from Robalo's ASR_AI mod:

- AI spotting distance automatically reduced at night (and restored at day). Default is half distance at night, can be changed
in userconfig.

Which I actually have installed if I recall correctly.

But if you have ever been out in the woods on a truly dark night, "half" spotting distance is not even close to how obscure the world sometimes is. When you literally cannot see your hand in front of your face and can only get a slight glimps of some light where some stars peek through a gap in the clouds . . . If it is possible to code it: AI spotting and aiming in the dark (without night vision equipment or thermal equipment) should range from virtually zero to perhaps 45% of daytime at most: Truly dark night spotting/aiming ability ~1 to 2% of normal; fully moon, clear skies and bright stars ~45 to 50%

[domokun]

If the AI was as completely blind as I am when I take off my NVG, there is no way it would charge to flank based on a muzzle burst and hope to get a lucky shot. When it is pitch dark, that is a lot of guesswork. The only thing I can guess is that, it is not 'pitch dark' to the AI.

Nail on head. When using NVGs your eyes adjust to the brightness of the NVGs. When you remove NVGs, your eyes which had adjsuted to the brightness of the NVGs are "blinded" by the lack of light. In reality your eyes take several moments to adjust to higher/lower levels of light. A2 goes someway to simulating this. While far from perfect, it's way more than any other game.

I totally agree though with your statement about moonless nights being VERY dark.
Fact is that most people live in light-polluted areas and therefore have no idea about real darkness.

[metalcraze]

Muzzle flashes how do they work

My guess though is scripted.

Scripted AI in ArmA

[maturin]

No way.

On an actual "moonless, pitch dark" night, the AI can see NOTHING. Setting the mission time to 0100 and calling it good is sloppy testing. Their range of vision literally drops down to several meters, much LESS than their range of hearing. Furthermore, if you shine a flashlight in their eyes at 20m, they will see you, yet be unable to engage because they can't tell whether you are friend or foe. If you fire a shot (any shot) they will instantly return fire.

The actual problem: Once they see a muzzle flash, they have perfect information on the location of that muzzle blast for an extended period of time, and can fire on it with normal accuracy. They can't suddenly see in the dark, but staying at the position becomes death, and their ability to see running figures gets slightly better than human eyes.

Make sure your game is patched, because there was a stupid glitch where certain units (IIRC including Chedaki) could see in the dark as if they had NVGs.

You should start testing in a more controlled environment, if you are going to make claims about X-ray vision. You don't know whether there was someone with NVGs on the next hill feeding them information.

Finally, this post refers to actual pitch darkness, which is only an hour or so long on each map, when there is no moon. On lighter nights, the AI is also quite blind, but get excessively good vision once combat starts. Of course, this is the same state of affairs as during the day.

[Anthropoid]

ADDIT: and yes, I was aware about the adjustment time for switching off NVGs and back to natural vision. I always allow several minutes to account for that when I check ambient light levels.

The actual problem: Once they see a muzzle flash, they have perfect information on the location of that muzzle blast for an extended period of time, and can fire on it with normal accuracy. They can't suddenly see in the dark, but staying at the position becomes death, and their ability to see running figures gets slightly better than human eyes.

That would account for the issues I've observed. Problem is, it is virtually impossible to tell your AI squad mates to fire briefly, then scramble/roll to another location . . . Sure the human can do that, but the AI seems to like to unload on a position.

I suppose if you did: (assuming they have reported targets are acquired) All - Go Prone / All - Stay Crouched / All - Fire at Will / All - Take Cover . . . but I have enough trouble controlling myself much less keeping myself from getting shot AND handholding my team.

I dunno, I just find that a lot of this game engine is apparently: (1) better tuned for PVP, and in part as a consequence; (2) Enemy AI are superior in the behavioral scripts they exhibit (except when it comes to vehicles! Catch some poor schmucks without an AT weapon in the somewhat open and you can literally mow 'em down in an APC without ever having to fire a shot!)

After probably 8 restarts with my night assault on Olsha with a four man NVG equpped squad: Finally killed an enemy squad of 7 killed (Officer; Machinegunner; AK-74; 3 Riflemen; AT soldier). Actually, I killed them cause I went back and got my BMP and 'lured' them out into the open by approaching Olsha from the southeast at the radio tower. I stupidly told two of my crew to get out, hoping to ambush the enemy, but by then the enemy squad was already out of Olsha, up the hill and causing mayhem on top of the hill. My machinegunner got killed, but I finally took out the whole enemy crew. As I say, I restarted trying to take out this crew at least 8 times.

I observed their behavior, and unlike a lot of settlements in the game, they seemed to be assigned to patrol right in the midst of Olsha. Mostly they went back and forth east-west in the opening just to the north of Olsha but with some variations on that movement pattern.

Each time I engaged them I had my squad hiding up on the hills (~200m away), me with a NV M110 laying prone. When an opportune shot came, I'd take out one or two. In one case I took out like 3 or 4 of them. But either I forgot to roll, or it didn't matter. They capped me. In some cases they very quickly capped my squad mates once they opened fire.

Anyway, EIGHT retries for a four man NVG equipped crew (M240; G636; M16/MAAW; me with NV M110) hiding in the treeline at an elevated position at night (it was initially quite overcast but it did get a bit more light as I progressed to the point where I kept trying and failing to ambush them). The final victory = use of an APC.

How many Night Vision devices in the loot from the squad that repeatedly capped me? = ZERO.

Now, don't get me wrong. I have no illusion that I am great at this game. I'm pretty damn crappy in fact. But I play on Recruit setting (albeit with ASR_AI) and I AM a pretty accomplished gamer at some other shooter type games . . . I have a lot to learn with ArmA and partly my lack of success can be attributed to that.

Nonetheless, it just seems cockamammie that a squad of 7 guys would be so effective given those circumstances.

Now that I know about how the muzzle flash thing works, I'll see if I can use that to my advantage.

I am pretty sure I have the latest of all patches as I only bought the game off Gamersgate a couple weeks ago.

ADDIT: it seems to me that the game could use a few more squad commands. I don't know the term they use for brief fire then ducking for cover, but a command for AI to do that would be golden.

[NoRailgunner]

What happen if you don't make a noise or only move very slowly? If you use addons make sure they don't screw the mission by too high or low default/custom settings.

[maturin]

Eight tries is a lot, but just because you had the advantage of NVGs doesn't change the fact that your were attacking a superior force in a rural/suburban setting. Why weren't you firing from hard cover and doing all the things you would do in daylight? Even if the enemy had human eyes, it would be irresponsible to rely on darkness as a decisive tactical aid, because their response will always be unpredictable.

Rather than finding a good position a just hammering away at the enemy (although a sudden burst of fire on the entire enemy group could have been effective), I have found that friendly AI in a forest work best when given a pre-set field of fire, aware of the presence of enemies. Then you want to alarm your opponents, not so they see you, but so they assault toward your position. Then they expose themselves and their AI is at its weakest, and you can gun them down. Exact same tactic as daylight, only your NVGs let you always spot them first and engage from shorter distances.

And remember that enemy AI has no advantage over your AI. By default they are in fact worse, although sometimes an AI commander can issue commands faster. But nothing they have is compensation for human intelligence.

'Brief fire then ducking for cover' could be (awkwardly) approximated as Hold Fire, Target Enemy (wait for their report on a clear shot, Fire (in the 3 menu), Find Cover. They may want to keep firing, but generally should crawl somewhere nearby.