Syria - What should we do if anything?

Remember about a year ago with all the chemical weapons in Syria crap and when USA was supporting the rebels and Russia was supporting Assad? Here's the reason for it-

Russia is protecting the Assad regime because Assad is blocking the flow of natural gas out of the Persian Gulf into Europe, thus ensuring higher profits for Gazprom, a Russian government-owned natural gas company providing Europe with lots of energy.

If the US is successful in removing Assad, the Saudis and Qatar benefit since the Syrian obstacle for their pipeline would be eliminated; it will be really bad for Russia and Gazprom.

This is a strategic geopolitical conflict about natural resources, religion and money, and it really has nothing to do with chemical weapons at all.

To get away from the usual shallow and mostly misinforming stuff posted in these forums..

Some decent background info and insights:

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2014/08/21/4071673.htm - 1 hour audio interview on how this all started (at least if you take the american invasion to Iraq as starting point)

Journalist Michael Ware returns to discuss the guiding ideals of jihadist group, Islamic State.

Michael is a former correspondent for Time magazine and CNN, and delivered some of the most reliable and candid on-the-ground reporting from Iraq.

Today he explains the origins of Islamic State (I.S.) the powerful and viciously cruel group now controlling parts of Iraq and Syria.

Michael knows these jihadists: he was kidnapped by them in 2004.

very good insights

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/25/blowback_vijay_prashad_on_how_islamic_state (skip the first few minutes)

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/8/25/libya_in_chaos_vijay_prashad

about Libya

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/8/25/libya_in_chaos_vijay_prashad_on

Edit: An of course read and listen to everything from Seymour Hersh (at least all about middle east).

It's not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings, but these IS people are fucking nuts, and must be taken care of.

( The Guardian ) Islamic State kills 150 captured troops in Syria, say activists

;2763014']http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2014/08/21/4071673.htm - 1 hour audio interview on how this all started (at least if you take the american invasion to Iraq as starting point)

Good document. I hope that this calm a bit those who say that IS is a US invention in this thread to fight Assad in Syria. And prove them that was created as a result of the Coalition Invasion of Iraq.

I think you are making it way too easy for yourself:

• Very influential US think tanks and the US military had this development as potential strategy and desirable outcome ahead of time
  
• At the very least the US did way too little for a long time to influence Turkey (weapons, open borders), Qatar and Saudi (money, open transit).
  
• The US provided/assisted in providing weapons (via Libya, Turkey) and training (Turkey, Jordan) for the most part to FSA - however it was to be expected from the start and also long known practice that money, weapons and men were to end up with the most radical factions
  
• The US actively destabilized Syria in various ways with the outcome to be expected
  

So did the US invent IS/ISIS - probably not (unless the CIA had its hand in it one way or another in the early phase).

You cant just blame one religion, for example Turkey's main religion is islam, yet they are not leading a "holy war" against others..

But Turkey is a secular country, even if Erdogan is from a religious party. In some extent, it's more secular than mine.

In Turkey the Army has been the garant of a secular state until Erdogan got in the lead. He jailed or dismissed every high ranking officer that was against his pro islamic politics and replaced them with his own people. Now he is trying to give more power to his current office.

The United States is sending 130 more troops to Iraq amidst a bombing campaign against ISIS militants in the north and a political crisis gripping Baghdad. We are joined by veteran Middle East correspondent Patrick Cockburn, author of the new book, "The Jihadis Return: ISIS and the New Sunni Uprising." Cockburn addresses the power struggle in Baghdad, Hillary Clinton’s claim that President Obama’s "failure" to support Syrian rebels helped fuel ISIS’s advance, the role of oil in the current U.S. airstrikes, and his fears that Iraq is entering a "new, more explosive era far worse than anything we’ve seen over the last 10 years."

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/13/the_rise_of_isis_us_invasion

President Obama is sending Secretary of State John Kerry to the Middle East to help build a regional coalition against the Islamic State, or ISIS, the militant group that has seized large parts of Iraq and Syria. “We don’t have a strategy yet,†Obama admitted. We speak to journalist Jonathan Steele, author of “Defeat: Losing Iraq and the Future of the Middle East.†Steele says that at this point, he believes ISIS represents a “marginal threat†on Western interests and that airstrikes will be counterproductive.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/29/could_us_airstrikes_in_syria_and

somewhat older

As a Sunni militancy overtakes large parts of Iraq, former U.N.-Arab League special envoy Lakhdar Brahimi joins us to discuss the escalating Iraqi conflict, the long-term impact of the 2003 U.S. invasion, and the crisis in neighboring Syria. A former Algerian freedom fighter who went on to become Algeria’s foreign minister, Brahimi has been deeply involved in Middle Eastern diplomacy for decades. He has worked on many of the world’s major conflicts from Afghanistan and Iraq to South Africa. Brahimi resigned as the U.N.-Arab League special envoy for Syria last month after a lengthy effort that failed to bring about peace talks between the Syrian government and rebel groups. On the legacy of the U.S. invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq, Brahimi says: "The biggest mistake was to invade. I am tempted to say that every time there was a [u.S.] choice between something right and something wrong, not very often the right option was taken." On Syria, Brahimi says the conflict is "an infected wound … if not treated properly, it will spread — and this is what is happening."

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/6/18/will_iraq_or_syria_survive_un

In Turkey the Army has been the garant of a secular state until Erdogan got in the lead. He jailed or dismissed every high ranking officer that was against his pro islamic politics and replaced them with his own people. Now he is trying to give more power to his current office.

Ok, politics for dummies : if you are a nice guy ,you get run over by the others ! so you'd better eat your rivals before they do !

I don't think he jailed those guys for no reason ,maybe they were preparing some "coup" to take over ! they would have done the same too ... it would be too simplistic to say he did it in the name of "Allah" ,and what are these pro-islamic policies you are talking about ?

Erdogan was not voted to please Europ ,but to fulfill the will of his people! which has been proved through elections many times ...

The government has been seen by certain constituencies as increasingly Islamist and authoritarian,[98][99][100] An education reform strengthening Islamic elements and courses in public primary and high schools was approved by the parliament in 2012, with ErdoÄŸan saying that he wanted to foster a "pious generation."[101] The sale and consumption of alcohol in university campuses has been banned.[89][102] People have been given jail sentences for blasphemy.[103][104]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_protests_in_Turkey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Constitutions_of_Turkey

I would suggest to read some stuff about secular security in those Constitutions ...

Indeed. Turkey almost invented secularism, together with France : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk#Modernization_efforts.2C_1926.E2.80.931930

Indeed. Turkey almost invented secularism, together with France : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk#Modernization_efforts.2C_1926.E2.80.931930

Since years the press here is reporting that since Erdogan is in power the secular values of the Ataturk heritage is in danger. But the Turkey is split with regards to this.

Hopefully the Turkey will never met the condition to join the EU, imagine EU boarders with Iran, Iraq and Syria and of course the idea to integrate Georgia and other countries around Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_protests_in_Turkey

Man ,Alcohol in university was forbidden ,what's wrong with that and what's "Islamic" about it ???? For you ,if you're not islamic you should go destroy yourself with alcohol and excessive porn ???

Many countries are making similar reforms,but the most important thing is that it was approved by the parliament ...

“We don’t have a strategy yet,â€

Back OT, Maybe they need to swallow some pride and talk with Iran, this is already out of control and who ever financing these guys have lost control, or not?

For you ,if you're not islamic you should go destroy yourself with alcohol and excessive porn ???

Many countries are making similar reforms,but the most important thing is that it was approved by the parliament ...

it is called freedom of choice if someone want to drink 1 beer or watch girls in movie when he feel lonely,

what countries are making such reforms as forbidding porn ? sharia countries or those who want to be another vatican,

first alcohol and porn, than they will forbid music and rest,

it is freedom of choice if someone want to be sober or want party , if someone will end as drunkard - it is his free will

People have been given jail sentences for blasphemy.

but this part you didn't noticed

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/15/turkish-composer-fazil-say-convicted-blasphemhy

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/23/world/meast/turkey-blasphemy-sentence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Turkey#Internet_censorship

and this, bans on internet for example to prostitution or "insult" to sate organs and officials,

cenzorshipi in such areas not exist in civilised world

On 9 August 2008, Edibe Sozen, an AKP MP, introduced a bill to ban the sales of pornographic images to anyone under the age of 16. The proposed bill also included a provision that anyone over 16 purchasing such materials would be registered in a database via a Citizen Identification Number.[4] These newly introduced laws are related to the rise of conservatism in Turkey, which touches all aspects of its society.[5]

as said about Turkey will never be in EU, although they want (many youth want very much which i know cause i was once meeting Turkish delegation in my country and i know that those 2 young man wanted to be in Europe because i consulted with them our regulations in some areas)

Blasphemy in a secular country ?? wait ,do you think secular means banning and making fun of religions ? start blaspheming here and there and you will start useless conflicts ! secular ,yes but with respect of every religion ! well, there are similar laws in secular countries like France !

The way you see things is called "anarhy" not freedom ,people go to university to study and become useful later ,not to destroy themselves with alcohol and drugs ! ofcourse ,you can do whatever you want when you're outside the university! but within its walls you should be 100% operational ... i see it as protection of the educational system! you are free to drink alcohol inside university but they are free to kick you out too :)

And by the way, i think you are misconceiving the western world totally ! if many great nations have managed to reach a high level of developpement and perenity, it's most likely thanks to people's hardwork and will of success ,not thanks to beers and boobs ...

South Korea has a very strict educational system ,they want to protect their children and secure a good future for them! why don't you go blame those guys ? :)

Last thing, selling pornographic content to under 16 people is forbidden in many countries around the world including US ,it's logical and normal

I'd be more worried about whats going on here.

Welcome to the new normal.

@ sgtsev3n

You should remove this video ASAP - way to explicit for this forum.

@ jblackrupert

Without context such videos are pointless.

It could very well be a mockery/demonstration of the behavior of the opposing side.

;2777111']@ sgtsev3n

You should remove this video ASAP - way to explicit for this forum.

@ jblackrupert

Without context such videos are pointless.

It could very well be a mockery/demonstration of the behavior of the opposing side.

It's not a mockery' date=' that parade has gotten more and more blatant every single year.

the black flags, the hand signs.... We've been having the same thing in Canada also.

things are a lot worse in places like England, France and Sweden.

The so called "Moderates" are getting emboldened by the actions of ISIS.., they don't feel they have to keep pretending anymore

it's safe to come out. As their numbers increase, so will the demands.

"We have the unborn martyrs in our wombs" @ 1:35

this picture is from 2012, FSA (Fake Salafist Army) with Islamic State flag:

FSA, Al-Nusra & IS(IS) are the same sh*t.

That's so caricatural that i don't even know where to begin. Saying all Assad opponents are the same is not only false, it shows how much clueless you are about Syria.

That's so caricatural that i don't even know where to begin. Saying all Assad opponents are the same is not only false, it shows how much clueless you are about Syria.

i was 2 times in syria, visiting my friends there. one of my friends in syria has a brother in germany (where i live) which i met on a pro assad rally.

another friend of mine which is a syrian visited syria (latakia) few weeks ago, when he came back to germany, he told me about his visit in syria.

i know what i am talking about and i have a quite good picture about the situation in syria of whats going on there.

here, your moderate opposition celebrate 9/11 (which was an inside job):

Why are the Assad opponents who are fighting in syria the same ? simple, here are some facts:

- all of them are puppets of gulfstates and the west & of the NATO

- all of them are killing innocents, minorities, beheading / execute (with bullets) civilians and captured soldiers.

- all of them rape womens and/or use them as slaves.

- all of them are foreign fighters/mercenaries who came from outside (only 10% of the fighters are even syrians)

- all of them tortue prisoners.

i was 2 times in syria, visiting my friends there. one of my friends in syria has a brother in germany (where i live) which i met on a pro assad rally.

another friend of mine which is a syrian visited syria (latakia) few weeks ago, when he came back to germany, he told me about his visit in syria.

i know what i am talking about and i have a quite good picture about the situation in syria of whats going on there.

No you aren't. Part of my family lived in Syria so don't even try to patronize me on the subject. IS is the objective ally of Assad, which objectively helped him to crush what was left of the secular rebellion. Now Assad looks like the good guy, as much as Stalin was in WW2 helping fighting Hitler, but crushing democrats in Eastern countries at the same time.

No you aren't. Part of my family lived in Syria so don't even try to patronize me on the subject. IS is the objective ally of Assad, which objectively helped him to crush what was left of the secular rebellion. Now Assad looks like the good guy, as much as Stalin was in WW2 helping fighting Hitler, but crushing democrats in Eastern countries at the same time.

i was. my friends live in syria which i visited, so stop spreading bullshit and stop believing western propaganda.

IS is a ally of Assad ? Syrian Army is bombing IS camps and bases. from where did IS got theyr weapons ? from Assad ? or from SaudiArabia(U.S Ally), USA, EU, NATO, Qatar, Turkey etc ? all evidences speaks for the second one (edward snowden, rand paul, even rebels themselves talk about how they are used by the west to remove assad).

so your family lives there, shoud i believe this ? if assad is such a bad guy, why is your family still in syria ? i can tell you why my friends and theyr families life in syria and dont leave it. because they feel good under assad, they support assad and the syrian arab army, theyr cities are under control of the syrian army, they do not fear.