Syria - What should we do if anything?

Fenrisulven suspended because duplicate accounts aren't allowed.

Last few posts of bickering deleted because it was primarily with a person now suspended for the above reason.

Thanks for your help Placebo.

What we need to do about Syria is make a map of it in Arma 2. Who's with me? ;)

why should we do something, Syrian people write his history by themselves; yes sure, there are a lot of people killed; but History is always written in blood. My feeling is that the Syrian people will more proud; if they do the revolution by themselves: proud for writing their History, proud for having had the enough strenght to accomplish that.

personally I don't like interference in other countries; excepted whether genocide has been proved. wars in Iraq were illegals and a pitiful demonstration of interference

why should we do something, Syrian people write his history by themselves; yes sure, there are a lot of people killed; but History is always written in blood. My feeling is that the Syrian people will more proud; if they do the revolution by themselves: proud for writing their History, proud for having had the enough strenght to accomplish that.

personally I don't like interference in other countries; excepted whether genocide has been proved. wars in Iraq were illegals and a pitiful demonstration of interference

United Nations Charter, international law, wishes of the Arab League, the war in Syria is directed by an authoritarian Govt. mainly against the Majority ethnic group. Russia has already intervened on the side of Assad supplying weapons and using the veto against the wishes of the majority of the Security council and UN General Assembly.

There are all kinds of good moral and legal reasons for interfering because someone else has already done so and blocked the progress of freedom and democracy which in turn blocks basic freedoms and human rights for most Syrians. Rumour has it that Obama has signed off on none lethal assistance which will allow intelligence sharing, communications, logistics and training.

Americans want to take Syria's resources. They hire mercenaries, give them weapons and money, send CIA agents into Syria, to fight against the Syrian government. Finally, once there is no one to get in their way (just like in Iraq and Libya) they'll conquer as much as they want. Then they might actually start to establish military bases there against Iran and Russia. It's simple, USA wants all the world's resources for themselves. In order to acquire them, they do stuff like the one I just pointed out. It's clearly visible. And on top of that, no one does anything to stop them. People continue to call the USSR an evil country that wanted to conquer Europe, kill innocent people, pillage everything, but no one pays attention to the USA. Okay, Stalin killed millions of innocents, people wanted to run into the "West" because of the repressions in the East side of the Iron Curtain. Now there is no USSR, there is no Warsaw Pact, there is no communism generally and there is no influence on the world by Russia nor China mostly, but there is a lot from the USA's side.

A bit off topic but all I wanted to say to people who hated the communist regime (of course everyone has the right to do that) will now be able to enjoy America's imperialism and globalization, America controlling the whole world, America dictating the rules, America telling your countries' politics what to do, America blaming countries leading into a reason for starting a war - NOT THE USSR(before)/RUSSIA, NOT CHINA, NOT NORTH KOREA, NOT GERMANY, NOT INDIA, NOT FRANCE, NOT SPAIN, NOT ITALY ... etc. but the USA! Of course NATO will support the USA and give soldiers' lives for America's ideas. I don't remember the Soviet Union asking any of the Warsaw Pact countries for any kind of help during the Afghanistan war.

The people who lived in the countries who had communist governments wanted the communist regime to collapse, and wanted democracy. I can tell you that because it was the same in Bulgaria. Everyone here wanted the regime to collapse. We were waiting for the democracy, we celebrated it's "arrival" and were happy that now we're free, there is freedom of speech and we can go wherever we want without asking our government for permission. We gained all that. We were happy. But then there was mafia, mass corruption, crime, misery, no work for people, politics stealing money and not doing anything for the country, bad doctors and expensive medicine for a regular citizen. Now we've gained the right to go wherever we want on the globe, we gained freedom of speech, we've gained the right to buy and sell things to people from the West and all that kind of stuff, but compared to what we've lost for example - no mafia, almost no crime, no ignorant work, no bad doctors nor expensive medicine, work for every single person in the country and much more during communism, you can see what is better and what is bad. And Stalin made communism bad, by not only killing innocent Russian and Germans, but also for example forcing politics in other communist countries to do the same for people who don't even agree even for a small single thing in communism. I can prove you that because there were lots of Bulgarians arrested and sent to prison or labor camps or killed, while Stalin was still ruling. Once he died, there was no longer stuff like that here. If you ask a Bulgarian what's bad about communism, they'll tell you about the killing of innocent people, which happened because of Stalin.

I am not praising communism, but saying that at least for Bulgaria, communism was a better period of time than it's now, of course many other people who steal (thing that they couldn't do before) from the country or have gone to live abroad (because the quality of life now here is bad) like more than a million of Bulgaria's population will tell you the opposite. And all this is thanks to the USA. They dictate the rules to our politics. Our politics agree with them without thinking and do their bidding. My country could have a higher quality of life without communism, if it wasn't for the USA and our politics who just care for money paid by the US and nothing else.

I know communism for every country was different like for example in Romania there were mass murders of innocent people not only in the beginning of communist regime, but during the whole communist period. I would understand if a Romanian person hates communism because that didn't bring anything good to Romania.

So now the USA is the nation that does what it wants without any opposition (like Soviet opposition before). Russia isn't doing anything neither China. So USA simply controls the world using bribed politics and wars. With those methods they'll conquer Syria and all that Syria has, if Iran, Russia, China don't do anything about it.

Thank you for spending your time reading what I had to say.

The United Nations General Assembly voted 133-12 on Friday for an Arab-backed resolution that severely criticized the Syrian government, blaming it almost exclusively for the killings and other atrocities that have come to shape the 17-month-old uprising there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/04/world/middleeast/un-general-assembly-criticizes-syria.html

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=42624&Cr=Syria&Cr1=

William Hague insists UK will NOT be sending weapons to Syria:

The UK is set to increase its support for Syrian opposition forces in their fight against the nation's brutal dictator Bashar Assad, William Hague revealed today. The funds will only come in the form of 'non-lethal' support, it will NOT, involve sending armaments to the rebels, the British Foreign Secretary confirmed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/03/hague-uk-help-syria-rebels

Obama authorizes secret 'non lethal' support for Syrian rebels

Separately from the president's secret order, the Obama administration has stated publicly that it is providing some backing for Assad's opponents.

The State Department said on Wednesday the U.S. government had set aside a total of $25 million for "non-lethal" assistance to the Syrian opposition. A U.S. official said that was mostly for communications equipment, including encrypted radios.

The State Department also says the United States has set aside $64 million in humanitarian assistance for the Syrian people, including contributions to the World Food Program, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other aid agencies.

Also on Wednesday, the U.S. Treasury confirmed it had granted authorization to the Syrian Support Group, Washington representative of one of the most active rebel factions, the Free Syrian Army, to conduct financial transactions on the rebel group's behalf. The authorization was first reported on Friday by Al-Monitor, a Middle East news and commentary website.

Last year, when rebels began organizing themselves to challenge the rule of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, Obama also signed an initial "finding" broadly authorizing secret U.S. backing for them. But the president moved cautiously in authorizing specific measures to support them.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120802

Over 1,000 Syrians, including four colonels, flee to Turkey - 2nd August.

Didn't Kofi Annan say this now had turned into a civil war effectively, so we have actively taken sides with Al Qaida against someone else? does no one else see this as a tad strange, we will be supplying whether we want too or not training to 1000's of fighters who will probably turn once over the border.

Seriously we live in one fucked up world when we are now backing people that will given the right chance kill us all, oh and lets not forget Syria has WMD in the form of some of the worst chemical weapons ever made and a lot of it, good luck when a few of these SAM's go missing and turn up on a fishing boat just off the coast of some tourist spot in the med.

Instead of playing the old cold war party 2 and the Saudi/Iranians playing power brokers, we should have suported Assad, put down the troubles and then forced him to open up properly the numbers killed would have been far fewer than what will come next.

There is very fierce fighting in some Rebel controled districts of Allepo. The military has sourounded them. Heavy shelling and bombardment is currently used against those districts.

The problem of not officially supporting the rebels is that it gives free hands (is that english ?) to islamist extremists and countries somehow backing them (SA, Qatar...) to take over the whole rebellion to their profit. Of course Sunnis are fighting for their religion, which is for them similar to fighting for their freedom. Lybia is an example of this : we (western countries) have some influence on the authorities, even if it's far from being perfect (tribes etc...). But it's always better than no influence at all.

But it's too late now. There's nothing that can be done to avoid a massive "civil" and religious war in the area. And of course, those who will suffer the most are the democrats, the secularists and the religious minorities (Christians first).

Interesting View on Al-Qaeda from Iraq's UN Ambassador - link below. Those of us with longer memories will remember that in 2003, 100's of Al-Qaeda and other groups flew to Syria to defend Saddam and after the fall started killing Shia and Allied troops, the Syrian Govt supported that. Assad has allowed Al-Qaeda to operate in Syria for a decade now and it has backfired on him. Strange that the west should be following a parallel course but that's life.

To label the whole rebel movement as Al-Qaeda is rather silly as they form a very small part. I doubt Al-Qaeda will have much influence after the war, Sunni Tribal leaders turned against them in Iraq as they wanted peace in their communities. The same thing will happen in Syria. No doubt Al-Qaeda will carry out some terrorism but Assad is to blame, without his decade long support the group wouldn't be there in the 1st place.

"It is well-documented fact that the majority of terrorists who came to Iraq after 2003 came through the Syrian border," al Bayati said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-57485002-503543/al-qaeda-a-cancer-in-syria-says-iraqs-u.n-ambassador/

Wonder how would all this end up..

If things would keep going that bad against the regime, there are high chances that Bachar takes refuge in Iran..

If he manages to take the control over the situation, I wonder how the rest of the world would react towards him and his regime, I guess our cowardy-leaders will just make sure some time will pass before they reinvite him again.. Damn it..

Hate the lack of integrity & humanity in politics..

Regards,

TB

Syrian rebels bag a Mig-23:

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There is footage of a captured pilot, a Colonel, it appears genuine and he has a characteristic circular bruise on his face that can be caused by the oxygen mask when ejecting.

^ where did the Steyr AUG come from? Surplus Saudi, or Libyan export?

Posting for thread reference:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/08/17/us-syria-crisis-chemicalweapons-idUSBRE87G02420120817

[h=1]Securing Syria chemical weapons may take tens of thousands of troop?[/h]

The United States and its allies are discussing a worst-case scenario that could require tens of thousands of ground troops to go into Syria to secure chemical and biological weapons sites following the fall of President Bashar al-Assad's government, according to U.S. and diplomatic officials.

Securing Syria chemical weapons may take tens of thousands of troop?

Doesn't say who's troops though does it? The most likely scenario would be a Turkish and Jordanian peace keeping force with the Americans giving special assistance to destroy and decontaminate the WMD sites. This would usually require a UN Security Council vote and authorisation so might be yet more fun with 'His Excellency appointed by God' Putin. The Israelis are handing out gas masks and there is a public campaign urging people to collect them. Much of the press is linking it to Iran but maybe it has something to do with Syria?

Something else for reference:

Syrian troops and militia were behind the Houla massacre of 108 people in May, UN investigators have concluded. Report issued on 15 August 2012.

Many in this thread said the Houla massacre was blamed on the Syrian Army and Shabiha erroniously by the western media. It was confirmed recently in a report by the UN Human Rights Council that the Syrian Government was responsible and the violations were the result of "state policy". UN observers say at least 108 people died, including 49 children and 34 women. No more than 20 appeared to have been killed by shellfire. Many of the rather dubious news sites linked to as evidence by others (Medialens?, are they on their summer hols or a book tour?) have so far not commented on this latest development lol.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syrian-troops-committed-war-crimes-says-un-report-8050282.html

UNSMIS mission draws to a close:

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Saudis use the AUG sowouldn't be surprised if it came from there. Just something doesn't seem right about him having one...

EDIT: Hang on that video of the MIG, why does it seem...odd?

I think we should let the middle east sort itself out.

Much of the press is linking it to Iran but maybe it has something to do with Syria?

Iran's been on the hit list for years, John Bolton licking his lips no doubt, so I would imagine anything that can stir that pot will go into the mix.

I think we should let the middle east sort itself out.

Not in a crusade like this one.

wNAaDKZ-SuE

Nice Cheech & Chong parody (?), middle east process to WW3 continues.

Interesting videos with interviews from two different opposition groups with a different view on the situation:

FSA Deputy Commander

Link removed due to content.

Dr. Abdalaziz al-Khair, leading figure of the National Coordination Body for Democratic Change, Syria

maybe all those NWO "freedom defenders" should instead go and solve problem in R.S.A. where strinking miners were killed, and some other countries in the world have similar problems when workers want payment

Nice execution scenes in the 1st vid at 1:26 ............ :butbut:

@Villas: Furtive Fallacy

Nice execution scenes in the 1st vid at 1:26 ............ :butbut:

@Villas: Furtive Fallacy

Well, like in the first of both videos the commander said that it is hard to control the fighters and in the 2nd video the interviewer talks about extremists. You need a good stomach if you watch some of the scenes fully, instead of these cleaned up scenes which got aired on TV.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19351020

The UK has joined the US in warning Syria that the use or threat of chemical weapons would force them "to revisit their approach".

Posting for ref.