OK, Theory time! Why the original Carrier Command worked, and why a remake might not

[RyderSpearmann]

Hi All,

[EDIT: I made the comments below BEFORE my P&C Beta came... and so, I was *WRONG* to worry about it. They kept the 4 & 4 vehicle layout... and the battle has that smaller, intimate feel that I was looking for, as well as all of the critical elements. Two thumbs up!]


OK, I've cranked up the old 1988 version of CC to get reacquainted with it, and I have some perhaps radical ideas as to why it worked as well as it did.

As it turns out, the limits of technology back them, caused them to swerve into success in this way:

***SMALLNESS***

Because of the amazing growth of power in PC's, RTS games have become unit heavy behemoths! Players are given a wide array of tools that are designed to command LARGE GROUPS of units, and let AI do much of the rest. The scale of the conflict in a modern RTS is grand, and there is a place for this... but what made CC DIFFERENT is that it presented an amazingly smaller and believable scenario. In other words, RTS mano a mano. It was a gunfight in the middle of town, except your holster had a few extra toys in it.

Walrus 1 and Manta 3 were not just arbitrary units... out of thousands to be deployed and lost... with only 4 of each, you could literally think of them as individual characters... and try to coordinate them... like NASA controlling a pair of robots on MARS. Those robots had NAMES!

Carrier Command was a game of limited hardware locked in a precision small scale battle.

With newer CPU's, programmers have decided that more is better... and now we see spectacles we can barely comprehend... and we are stuck letting the numbers tell the story.

The story scenario of the Original Carrier Command (OCC), was of a rogue carrier designer defecting, and taking control of an automated carrier... one of two. The other carrier is given to you, and with your limited resources, you must prevail. OCC presented an INTIMACY of conflict and of the hardware that was more like controlling the rovers on Mars, than it was like directing the invasion of Normandy.

This expansion of conflict seems to be one of the problems with Hostile Waters... too much going on. Impressive as a technical achievement, and enjoyable in it's own right, but still, OCC was a DIFFERENT game, and placed the player in a different frame of mind due to it's smallness.

Already, the expansion of Carrier Command: Gaea (CCGM) with EIGHT of each type of craft (and naturally more enemy) starts to strain the abilities of the human mind to associate itself closely with the many new actors. The fact that one can get into any of a thousand vehicles in a massive battle, while a nice feature, doesn't suddenly make the total experience intimate... if you are storming Normandy in one of 5000 landing craft, it doesn't much matter if you are in #173 or #2188. It's the same damned thing in a different seat.

As I watch CCGM, I am instantly annoyed at what seems like endless reports of "Manta program 1 completed. Manta 7 program completed. Manta 2 Program completed. Manta 3 Program Completed. Manta 6 program completed." An endless barrage of important information.... on too large a scale.

I personally think that if CCGM went to three Manta and three Walrus.. they might have a better game!!!

This is like the astronaut and his three robots in Silent Running... or the difference between the film Alien, and Aliens. Very different, yet very similar... but different enough that they literally became different KINDS of movies. If CCGM enlarges itself too much, it will become "just another RTS".

I would sure like to see a "TINY MISSION" option... where resources are much more limited, and the player can focus on more of the detail of the smaller things, instead of engaging in a war of numbers and attrition that require statistics to comprehend.

This, I think, was the critical key to what made OCC a success... forced on them by computers with only 256K of ram.

RS

[sav112g]

I often think if they made "Elite" for the BBC model B again would I love it the same with all the bells and whistles they could add to it. I still cant believe no one has done a permanent live universe for elite. Give it an edge like one life and you have to start over!

you don't save games or rounds you simple have to dock to get back to real life out with the game. You could even have employment n the game as they had bounty hunters, police or just simple traders making there way in the universe created. Space stations could even be sponsored by real firms and products with offers on.

Getting back on topic i just hope its half as much fun to play as my original was but I'm not going to be amazed that I can fly over my own ship while controlling it as that's just the norm these days.

[Hawk Firestorm]

I personally don't think this one will.

I've said as much in a long thread in the P&C forum.

One reason being peoples sofisication and expectations have increased immensly, its simply not enough to just rehash the same game with a new graphics engine for todays market, its a good start but the gameplay needs to be expanded upon, the passion and imagination to make the 'big game' back into it, not to mention having the people with the tallent to do so.

They haven't really done that from what I've seen, the other big bone of contention with me is the multiplatform approach they took, this game really belongs on the PC, it's the only platform able to do the above, and also the only platform that does strategy well, consoles are too limited and much of the design of the new version seems to have been butchered I think to accommodate it being pushed to the console.

It's become a so so FPS, rather than a more immersive 4x with FPS elements.

But overall they did good with the graphics, but suffered a mental block as to where to take the game to as far as the gameplay for todays market, other than to turn it into a joypad wagglers paradise.

Games that truely standout above and beyond the rest like the Homeworlds etc these days are few and far between, this had the potential to be one but sadly I think its going to be yet another release it and everyones forgoteen about it 2 weeks later.

Which is truely sad.

[RyderSpearmann]

Well, I just got my P&C Beta, and I really think that Bohemia Interactive have nailed this... It's excellent. Any reservations I had about it are gone... I think that the long range comms system is missing... which is too bad... and I do think that Manta's should be able to land and refuel on islands, but these are minor points.

Honestly, a super job. I'm thrilled with it. And I'm thrilled with the changes made to it since 2010, as evidenced by the videos I saw of it back then.

I really hope the best for BI on this one.

[Hawk Firestorm]

They got the vague basics in.

Put too much toward the FPS element to push it to the console, and haven't expanded the gameplay or upon the original for PC users I think, well at least this one.

There's many simple but important elements of the original that are missing, partly because of the cross platform approach.

Between this and hostile waters I'd play the later, so far from what I've seen, looking at the gameplay.

[yungstar]

Well, I just got my P&C Beta, and I really think that Bohemia Interactive have nailed this... It's excellent. Any reservations I had about it are gone... I think that the long range comms system is missing... which is too bad... and I do think that Manta's should be able to land and refuel on islands, but these are minor points.

Honestly, a super job. I'm thrilled with it. And I'm thrilled with the changes made to it since 2010, as evidenced by the videos I saw of it back then.

I really hope the best for BI on this one.

could not agree more with the above and from what i've played of the beta, it deserves to be a success.

[Tijai]

I often think if they made "Elite" for the BBC model B again would I love it the same with all the bells and whistles they could add to it. I still cant believe no one has done a permanent live universe for elite. Give it an edge like one life and you have to start over!

you don't save games or rounds you simple have to dock to get back to real life out with the game. You could even have employment n the game as they had bounty hunters, police or just simple traders making there way in the universe created. Space stations could even be sponsored by real firms and products with offers on.

Getting back on topic i just hope its half as much fun to play as my original was but I'm not going to be amazed that I can fly over my own ship while controlling it as that's just the norm these days.

Psssst Its called Eve Online

Also I agree with the OP, I loved the original because I felt in control of everything.

Also...

Imagine if you will something of the original (smaller) size fleet ...but wait in a Warfare setting with an overall commander :x

TvT carrier fleets ..in a Warfare mold


Just a thought.

[scrapser]

One thing about older games that still applies today is using your imagination. The older games provided the structure and your imagination fills in the details. I remember playing a game back in the late 80's called Empire. It was turn based and as you moved your units across the map the enemy units were revealed if you moved within range of their weapons or they were immediately adjacent to where you moved. I think there were only 6 icons (ships, tanks, planes, infantry, artillery, and bases). The game was incredibly addictive and I would lose all sense of time, sometimes realizing it was 4 AM in the morning. The original Carrier Command gave me a taste of the world it was presenting on the screen and the gameplay provided the action but my imagination was there in a major way as well.

I think this is a problem for many forms of entertainment. The more powerful (read, "realistic") games become the more we lose something. The same can be said of children's toys. Think about it. Would you rather do something that exercises your brain or have it all provided to you on a platter so all you have to do is watch it happen? That's where the unexpected boredom comes from. Of course anyone who was born after 1995 probably wouldn't be able to appreciate much of this in terms of computer games.

[tortuosit]

One thing about older games that still applies today is using your imagination. The older games provided the structure and your imagination fills in the details.

So true. That's why Games like Dwarf Fortress work pretty well.