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Fixes to the UH-60 and the UH-60 (mg) and a few other issues

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Ok, for starters, I think the M2 on the UH-60 MG should be replaced by a M60 (as in real life). And the "fuel pods" on the normal UH-60 should be left blank or they should accomodate FFAR launchers or maybe even Machine gun pods (like miniguns, but I think FFAR's will be much easier to do because they're already in the game). I also noticed a great graphical enhancement when I compared units from 1.00 with units from 1.30. Go put a UH-60 in the mission editor next to an Apache. Look at the FFAR launchers and the wheels. BIS, will it be manageable to slightly redo the UH-60, MI-24, MI-17, A-10, AH-1 and SU-25 models to also use this new graphical feature (I'm sure the BIS modelers know what I'm talking about.). This would be great. Thanks

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I definately agree with the M2 being swapped with the M60, I mean its shouldn't matter, nobody uses the gun that much anyway for anyone to complain that they'd miss the heaviness of the M2...do they?

The fuel pods should have gone from the start. They simply are not needed for action on such small islands. Other standard weapons the UH-60 carries are HOT/HOT2 launchers, a RAK 052 Oerilkon/SURA 8 1mm rocket installation, TOWs or Hellfires, twin Stinger launcher or a FN ETNA HMP/MRL70 (combined 0.5in M3P gun and four 70mm rockets). So for example BIS could have made it similar to the Mi-24 and instead of the fuel pod could have used a TOW installation. But its a bit late to complain about it now in anycase. But I'm not too bothered.

I haven't noticed the graphical issues you commented on, but I am sure to now.

(Edited by The Jub Jub Bird at 7:34 pm on Nov. 19, 2001)

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Go check the graphics out. I noticed it from the beginning. I sure hope someone from the developement team will read this sad.gif. Hopefully Medvidek will, he tends to post more than the other OFP guys.

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Hmmm .... been looking into the whole Blackhawk thing. If you are going to represent one kind of BlackHawk in the 1985 based OFP, what should it be? As a basic UH-60 only the 1 or 2 M60Ds would generally be enough. The game model seems to be more of a HH-60 (which can have door mounted 0.50 calibre MG's or a MH-60 (introduced in '83 so the time line is ok). See ...

www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/uh-60.htm

for more info. There is an interesting photo on that page of a UH-60 with what appears to be 16 Hellfires fitted.

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The General Electric Black Hawk Weapon System provides either two 7.62mm Miniguns or two .50 Gatling guns which are both pintel mounted. Only recently are the M60s being standardly replaced by M134 Miniguns.

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The M144 Armament System (in LEFT and RIGHT versions) that can each mount an M60D 7.62mm machine gun. This is 1985 remember. (When I was 11 ... oh to be young again ...)

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Its a pity that the BlackHawk, and other choppers can't be pre-configured in the "gear" section pre-game, where u can change players weapons.

The BH should definitely come with the option of two '60s (anyone tried out the m60real.pbo? sounds bloody excellent).

Id also like to see extra ammo etc stored in the choppers.. specially for the door gunners.. I think that blackhawks also carry some assault rifles as well, in case the chopper gets shot down etc.. Nice to have those M60s salvageable from a downed bird too smile.gif

I can strongly recommend the PaveHawk addon, available at the Op Flash editing centre.. carry's LAW rockets for spec-ops deployment..

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Some more variants of the blackhawk would be nice...

One thing to note though, with the way the game enginge works, only one gun can be fired from any vehicle at a time. This is why there is only 1 m2 in the uh-60(mg).

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If so.. couldnt they double the fire rate of the MGs and then "interlace" it so that it would acutally fire 1 bullet on each side one at a time, but appear to be firing them both at normal speed..

is this possible?

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Its an interesting work around and it sounds like it would be possible...Im not sure if it would work though since u can only assign one target at a time and both gunners wouldnt be able to target an object at the same time. Could just set it so that each gunner only starts firing when the target is on their side of the chopper.

Oops, forgot one thing though, if u tell a gunner to fire w/out giving him a target, then he will choose his own targets and shoot on his own free will. I guess this is where your solution would come in to play.

Its deffinitely something worth investigating since most choppers ive seen had guns on each side.

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I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING!!!!

What about the mark III boat?? It has two guns that both fire! Of course they are both targeted by one person but I think the principle could be applied to choppers!!!!

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You know the distance from a gun will determine how it sounds to the human ear.

I think the range that you cannot hear guns in OFP is maybe just under 1km...so anyway;

They need to totally make all the guns sampled as they would sound in real life at a single range - say 900m.

This way, they would all have the correct 'popping' n 'bopping' without sounding like they are sampled at 20m away from the gun. You get me?

A gun should'nt sound the same EVERY time it fires either, should be a bit of a dopple/phase/flange to the gun fire..this will be so realistic, and when combined with the latest EAX tech it will be perfect. With or without eax its an huge improvement.

So;

Sample the guns, all of them, at 900m away from the gun actually firing.

Make the M60 (for example) flange a bit, so every round sounds unique (kinda)...however it will just be a slight audio-warping, nothing to serious.

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yeah! u are right.. the dual guns on the boat.. of course..

I wonder if someone with more software brains than me, can investigate how pheasible it is.. even if AI cant target two things at once.. i know lots of ppl that would want to man one of those guns..

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If we are stuck with only one MG, could we have a similar arrangement to some of Australia's BlackHawks with:

(compact hoist) http://www.argo.net.au/tash/aircraft/s-70/s-70_18.htm

on one side and

(MG) <a href="http://www.argo.net.au/tash/aircraft/s-70/s-70_22.htm

on" target="_blank">http://www.argo.net.au/tash/aircraft/s-70/s-70_22.htm

on</a> the other.. also check out the ESSS in this pic!

<a href="http://www.argo.net.au/tash/aircraft/s-70/s-70_31.htm

(Edited" target="_blank">http://www.argo.net.au/tash/aircraft/s-70/s-70_31.htm

(Edited</a> by WTFonslaught at 2:58 pm on Nov. 20, 2001)

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WTFonslaught and Mr ThunderMakeR the dual guns on the boat act like one gun. They are attached to each other, they move together, they fire together.

The interlacing could work, and you could get around the targeting issue that you brought up Mr ThunderMakR quite easily. The seconded gunner is not apart of the helicopters crew, the second gunner is a squad member in real life. So the gunner can recieve orders from the pilot and the other guy manning the other gun will be recieving orders from his squad commander (or in effect firing at will becasue the commander won't be able to see f**k all). As you get into the chopper you could have the option 'get in as second gunner' as well as 'get in back', 'get in as pilot' and 'get in as gunner' (so long as all the places not already taken). For the interlacing to work and look and sound real real the rate of fire would have to be increased lots I think, but I can't see why it can't actually work. Nice thinking there WTFonslaught.

(Edited by The Jub Jub Bird at 8:43 pm on Nov. 20, 2001)

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What I would like to know is why tanks have three crew members and helicoptors (UH-60 and the Chinook) only have two.  OK, I know that there only could be one gun firing on any unit.  But why couldn't they add a co-pilot to the helicoptors?(commander, driver, gunner = pilot, co-pilot, gunner)  I'd like to see a guy sitting next to me when I fly, even if he doesn't do anything.  Maybe like this, if I get killed by small arms fire, the co-pilot could take over and continue to fly the helicoptor.  It's just an idea/suggestion, and I would like to have 2 gunners for the UH-60 and a rear ramp gunner on the Chinook, but if this can't be done, then add co-pilots.

-=Die Alive=-

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I would love to see a guy sitting next to me too, doesn't look or feel right having an empty space there. It could be filled by a navagator/commander unit maybe. Of course in the UH-60 (without machine gun the space is not there so no extra unit there). Same for Chinook.

Commenting on the tanks that you mentioned, most tanks actually have 4 crew members (same as in game but loader also - so the gunner doesn't have to take his eyes from the target).

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Die Alive on 9:57 pm on Nov. 20, 2001

What I would like to know is why tanks have three crew members and helicoptors (UH-60 and the Chinook) only have two.  OK, I know that there only could be one gun firing on any unit.  But why couldn't they add a co-pilot to the helicoptors?(commander, driver, gunner = pilot, co-pilot, gunner)  I'd like to see a guy sitting next to me when I fly, even if he doesn't do anything.  Maybe like this, if I get killed by small arms fire, the co-pilot could take over and continue to fly the helicoptor.  It's just an idea/suggestion, and I would like to have 2 gunners for the UH-60 and a rear ramp gunner on the Chinook, but if this can't be done, then add co-pilots.

-=Die Alive=-

<span id='postcolor'>

Agreed.

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Sikorsky UH60 Blackhawk. Who said GE? Anyway, I was a Crewchief for 4 years. The M60 was the standard during my tour (90-95). Only spec ops had the miniguns. The guys I new in spec units hated them because they jammed all the time.

The US Army requires two pilots for the UH60. No less. A Crewchief is not required, but you don't see them fly without one.

I do think having Pilot, Co-Pilot and gunner (Crewchief) would be a nice addon.

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I want a co-pilot added, but what would one do? Navagate? Watch the horizon? It can be flown single handedly right?

I think it should be added into the game to work much like a commander of the tanks.

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First I want the graphics updated!

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