Aiming Accuracy in Arma 3

[Panda_pl]

Ehhh... there is a difference.
Wind influence introduces systematic error. You will need to fire a couple of tracer rounds to really adjust for it. If you notice at all where your bullets go.
In some conditions you won;t be able to see impacts...
The AI cone of fire will result in averaging it out - the AI will be too precise on their opening shots and too inaccurate on follow ups. The disperison will also have a shape of cone, while bullets should drift in one direction if fired in succession.

Introducing a spread pattern (like in Counterstirke:GO or old CS, for lack of better example) instead of cone of fire might be a good idea in general, since when people make an error in aiming they usually stay consistent (wrong range estimation for example)...

This talk also reminds me of discussions back in Arma1 where people were against using tracer rounds in their rifles. Wind influence might convince some finally.

I need to point out one thing as well: if only certain classes of weapons would be affected by wind people would pick rifles or MGs over sniper rifles for sniping, since lack of wind is a nice handicap.

[metalcraze]

You mean spread pattern like in CS is inconsistent. Since it's just totally random.

[Panda_pl]

You mean spread pattern like in CS is inconsistent. Since it's just totally random.

Actually I meant the pattern for recoil. Not the spread applied to first shot accuracy.

[-Coulum-]

Hmm?
Sorry Panda_pl, not sure I am grasping what your suggesting about the ai. Could you try explaining it again for me.

As for wind only being applied to snipers... well if its going to be implemented, might as well implement it on all weapons. People should be dissuaded from using snipers for real life reasons. Hopefully improved weapon handling in CQC and a proper weight/stamina/speed system will achieve this.

[Panda_pl]

Hmm?
Sorry Panda_pl, not sure I am grasping what your suggesting about the ai. Could you try explaining it again for me.

Sure.

In CS:GO if you press the trigger and just hold it the bullets will hit randomly but each bullet will hit within some maximum distance from eachother. Typically climbing up. It is random but with bias.

I meant a pattern where shots that end up off-target would still have some grouping. The consecutive hits would be close to each other.
Think about if you misjudge the wind while shooting an LMG your shots will drift off to the same side, not spread over the target area. Then you try to compensate and walk your rounds to target.

[-Coulum-]

In CS:GO if you press the trigger and just hold it the bullets will hit randomly but each bullet will hit within some maximum distance from eachother. Typically climbing up. It is random but with bias.

I meant a pattern where shots that end up off-target would still have some grouping. The consecutive hits would be close to each other.
Think about if you misjudge the wind while shooting an LMG your shots will drift off to the same side, not spread over the target area. Then you try to compensate and walk your rounds to target.

Okay I understand what you mean Panda Pl, good idea. It probably would make the ai look like they are effected by wind. But until we get wind in game it doesn't really matter unfortunately.

On the topic of breath simulation and weapon sway. - This video is a good example of the kind of weapon sway I think would be nice in Arma 3(11:25 - 11:50). Its from vbs2.

Every breath creates noticeable raising and lowering of your aim. But this will give you even more reason to crouch, go prone or rest your weapon against something. As you can see, in crouched position sway is about halved and in prone position it is barely even visible.

And although the sway is larger than in a2, notice it is very smooth and predictable. With a little concentration and time (not practice time, but aiming time) you will be just as accurate as you are in a2.
And another thing is, when your tired or wounded as shown in the start, the weapon sway looks much more easier to handle than currently. In a2 when your wounded or tired your aim jumps from one random point to another so no matter how good you are, it is impossible to line up shots – you must rely on luck. But, using this system, the weapon just sways up and down more and a bit faster. It is still possible to time shots and be accurate, its just harder and slower than if you weren't wounded.

I really think this type of system would be an awesome addition to arma and increase the teamwork needed for firefights and the skill required for marksmanship, the latter currently requiring almost zero skill. Not to mention it will vastly improve the realism of firefights.

I honestly can’t see a downside to it. Anyone who voted against harder shooting see a negative aspect that I am missing?

[metalcraze]

^That's exactly what I mean by VBS2 breathing system

Also notice how it's at the same time both realistic and somewhat predictable (meaning you can predict where the bullet will go even if weapon's shaking).

Right now it's worse in both ways - no realistic breathing - weapon just dances around the screen randomly.

Of course holding breath affects the sway hard in VBS2 - but in ArmA2 holding breath has next-to-none effect

[maturin]

Are riflemen even taught to hold their breath when shooting? Snipers and marksmen are supposed to delay inhaling for a moment when they take their shot, but that's from a stationary, prone position.

I'd be really surprised if gunmen on the move are going around regulating their breathing. And there's no way you're going to do that when you are actually winded. You'll make yourself vomit.

I like limited effectiveness of ArmA 2's breath control. It's still quite useful.

You have to think ahead on this point. If BIS added lots of sway in ArmA 3, breath control would just be another annoying button that everyone would press to make their aiming like all other FPS. Giving us Carpal Tunnel for no real benefit in realism or gameplay.

[batto]

If BIS added lots of sway in ArmA 3, breath control would just be another annoying button that everyone would press to make their aiming like all other FPS. Giving us Carpal Tunnel for no real benefit in realism or gameplay.

Well, currently you have two ways to return from sighted view. Right mouse button click or shift+forward. The latter could be eliminated and shift could be used for it. Holding breath will actually add fun IMO. It's another "skill" choice...

EDIT: How can you vote no on the poll ?!?!?

Also bullets affected by wind would be great for PvP and just-for-fun-COOPs (Domination) beacuse it'd make kills on long distances harder.

[-Coulum-]

You have to think ahead on this point. If BIS added lots of sway in ArmA 3, breath control would just be another annoying button that everyone would press to make their aiming like all other FPS. Giving us Carpal Tunnel for no real benefit in realism or gameplay.

Holding ones breath would be realistically depicted. Depending on your level of fatigue you will be able to hold your breath for 1-3 seconds or so before weaponsway becomes even more drastic than before holding breath. In addition it will increase fatigue as you are not sucking in new air. I believe this is also how vbs 2 shooting works. It will require you to time your shots well and make them count. Armas current breath system hardly makes a difference to shooting because theres hardly any sway in the first place. you can also hold your breath for a good 30 seconds before any negative effects occur which is very unrealistic and leads to exactly what you say you don't want - people holding their breath all the time.

EDIT: How can you vote no on the poll ?!?!?

That's exactly what I'm wondering. I've seen and wrote many good arguments as to why a more involved system would benifit the game... Yet there is still a good number of people against the idea. This is fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I haven't really heard anyone say why. There's been no real arguments against the idea and I'm interested to know what the cons would/could be.