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Thread: State of Multiplayer match types. Now and 8-10 years ago.

  1. #1

    State of Multiplayer match types. Now and 8-10 years ago.

    When OFP was in full swing, there was no shortage of CTFs/C&H's/CTI's/S&H, etc. However since the inception of Domination/Evolution in Arma 1, Co-ops have been the dominant force on the server list. I find this perplexing because in every forum across the internet, every time Arma/OFP is mentioned - the AI is always mentioned after: "The game with all the brainless AI?" Yet, thats the preferred way to play these days... against brainless opponents.

    Sure, there are a few pvp servers out there, but they are no longer the dominate force when it comes to Arma/Arma2. I was wondering why you guys think this is and do you think it will change come Arma3 or will the "evolution" or Evolution/Domination continue to "dominate" the multiplayer server list?

  2. #2
    OFP started with nothing basically. Aside form some basic missions by BI.
    So people made some. And they made most what they knew from other games.

    Also OFP had no JIP and most servers had ~10-20 players on.
    Nowadays most (PvP) players only look at the high player count servers - the very top.
    It is also hard to get a server going. With only few people, it is unlikely more will join.
    You need to achieve a certain threshold before more will join (10+).

    CTI (later Warfare), like Domination and Evo, offers three key things:
    + scale, freedom and range of ways to play how you like it
    + you can participate at any moment
    + you can play it alone/with very few people

    The reasons why traditional PvP is so weak has different, but many reasons, like
    + long wait till A1 and sad release state of A1 drove many (PvP and clan) players away
    + Arma never regained again a name as good PvP game (except for CTI/large scale and maybe recently AAS/PR:A2)
    + especially the clan community of similar games (RO/BF/PR) does not get attracted
    + many issues Arma had and still has

    What does A3 need to become popular again:
    + dedicated and quality PvP game mode delivered by BI from the start
    + that suits RO/BF/PR type of players
    + better game settings and control defaults for PvP play style
    + better animations
    + largely improved server browser
    + PR, PR, PR to send out the message to the general gamer community (outside of this forum)

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  3. #3
    From another point of view, I guess that there are not many games out there (military especially) that offer the same level of co-op that Arma 2 offers in multiplayer. For PvP it has lots and lots of competition from FPS type games through to MMORPGs.

    Having said that, it would be good if Arma 3 was made more PvP friendly (without detracting from the co-op side). Hopefully BI have looked at some of PvPscene's own tweaks. Two other noteable PvP focused community members (Celery for his missions and Smookie for his animations) are now BI developers so perhaps BI have taken note.

    Lastly to undeline what PvPscene said, any pvp type modes have to be publisised and have to be good. There's a lot of competition out there and players are more fickle than they used to be.

    Also as for the AI being dumb - I'm not so sure I know of a game to compare it against really. Taking into account what the AI has to achieve in Arma 2, I think it's pretty bloody good. Always room for improvement though.
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  4. #4
    The mass amount of Domination servers [Mostly sitting empty 24/7] wouldn't be such a big deal if they'd just switch to TWO TEAM version.

    But then again I've been on a couple of Two team servers that were running for awhile and there was a lot of rage quitting because many of the Coop-op/Domi crowd are afraid of opponents that can out think them
    as opposed to the fish-in-a-barrel AI.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PvPscene View Post
    OFP started with nothing basically. Aside form some basic missions by BI.
    So people made some. And they made most what they knew from other games.

    Also OFP had no JIP and most servers had ~10-20 players on.
    Nowadays most (PvP) players only look at the high player count servers - the very top.
    It is also hard to get a server going. With only few people, it is unlikely more will join.
    You need to achieve a certain threshold before more will join (10+).

    CTI (later Warfare), like Domination and Evo, offers three key things:
    + scale, freedom and range of ways to play how you like it
    + you can participate at any moment
    + you can play it alone/with very few people

    The reasons why traditional PvP is so weak has different, but many reasons, like
    + long wait till A1 and sad release state of A1 drove many (PvP and clan) players away
    + Arma never regained again a name as good PvP game (except for CTI/large scale and maybe recently AAS/PR:A2)
    + especially the clan community of similar games (RO/BF/PR) does not get attracted
    + many issues Arma had and still has

    What does A3 need to become popular again:
    + dedicated and quality PvP game mode delivered by BI from the start
    + that suits RO/BF/PR type of players
    + better game settings and control defaults for PvP play style
    + better animations
    + largely improved server browser
    + PR, PR, PR to send out the message to the general gamer community (outside of this forum)
    + better mod management. Imo the most prolific complaint I hear second to frame rate.
    Participate in the multiplayer revolution!

  6. #6
    Aside from the list:
    More, better, and built in ROUND BASED respawn options would offer a better platform for more realistic missions. There are community built solutions, but all are obviously hacks and not as smooth or slick as even Counter-Strike for Half-life. Obviously one could end the mission, but this would require rapid restarts/votes through the server lobby (or a constant admin). None of which are ideal.

    -k
    ARMA 2 Mission packs:LITE Coop mission package + LIMA coop mission package (ACE + ACRE) + More ACE + ACRE missions. + Aliabad coop Mission Package+ Fireforce Takistan NEW
    ARMA 3 Mission packs:Fourplay Coop Mission Pack NEW
    Kill things, break stuff. Repeat as necessary.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jblackrupert View Post
    The mass amount of Domination servers [Mostly sitting empty 24/7] wouldn't be such a big deal if they'd just switch to TWO TEAM version.

    But then again I've been on a couple of Two team servers that were running for awhile and there was a lot of rage quitting because many of the Coop-op/Domi crowd are afraid of opponents that can out think them
    as opposed to the fish-in-a-barrel AI.
    We've hosted a PvP server (Valhalla C&H) a while ago for a few month, unless you have a threshold (for us it was 15 or so players on the server) most people wont' stick around.
    We had a preposition to host berserk but i don't want the box sitting idle when we pay money for it. I am willing to give PvP public server another try as long as it can be filled up.
    Last edited by nomad_man; Feb 24 2012 at 05:50.

  8. #8
    Human nature is all to do with survival of the fittest. If a mission 'ticks all the right boxes' then it will naturally percolate to the top and become popular.

    What I find is that no matter the mission I run, IF I don't go on there (to make the count go to ONE) then noone else joins. If I can get 2 or 3 people to join my server then BOOM it fills quite nicely. Humans tend to use this sheep mentality and will flock to what they perceive as popular - even though the mission may NOT be THAT great. We aren't going to change human nature I'm afraid (as good as BIS are )

    All mission makers can do is to produce a mission THEY would love to play and, as Kevin Costner says IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME. For my mind ... I don't really care if anyone else likes what I do .... as long as I do
    Last edited by Kremator; Feb 24 2012 at 11:42.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    When OFP was in full swing, there was no shortage of CTFs/C&H's/CTI's/S&H, etc. However since the inception of Domination/Evolution in Arma 1, Co-ops have been the dominant force on the server list. I find this perplexing because in every forum across the internet, every time Arma/OFP is mentioned - the AI is always mentioned after: "The game with all the brainless AI?" Yet, thats the preferred way to play these days... against brainless opponents.

    Sure, there are a few pvp servers out there, but they are no longer the dominate force when it comes to Arma/Arma2. I was wondering why you guys think this is and do you think it will change come Arma3 or will the "evolution" or Evolution/Domination continue to "dominate" the multiplayer server list?
    It's indeed a phenomenon. In games like CoD, BF3 it's a given to show your skill by fighting a human opponent or a human team. In the ArmA universe most people seem to have become pansies ( sorry for the choice of words but would say this is a fact ) who can't take it that there is someone better than them out there. This game is imo the best game to show your skills in in all disciplines like driving, flying running and shooting but all that happens is Coop. I just started playing again two weaks ago, 90% of the servers have Coop ( mostly Evo West Coop ). It's fun to play but after some time it really gets boring because the only "Coop" you get is that you are on the same side...no actual teamplay on public servers if you don't have another teammate or team in Teamspeak.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enforcer1975 View Post
    It's indeed a phenomenon. In games like CoD, BF3 it's a given to show your skill by fighting a human opponent or a human team. In the ArmA universe most people seem to have become pansies ( sorry for the choice of words but would say this is a fact ) who can't take it that there is someone better than them out there. This game is imo the best game to show your skills in in all disciplines like driving, flying running and shooting but all that happens is Coop. I just started playing again two weaks ago, 90% of the servers have Coop ( mostly Evo West Coop ). It's fun to play but after some time it really gets boring because the only "Coop" you get is that you are on the same side...no actual teamplay on public servers if you don't have another teammate or team in Teamspeak.
    Well, i would say that coop players are mainly people that are able to go beyond primitive instincts and premature competition. They just accepted that there is always someone better than they are. They just understood that on a server with 20 people it is more fun to play together with 20 people instead of just 10 of them.
    Also PvP will never be a real competition unless you make sure all are playing with exactly the same hardware. Don't you think that someone with a 27" screen and a high end graphic card and cpu has some advantages over someone with just a 22" screen and mediocre hardware? Please explain me what this has to do with skills, would you?
    When i play for 2-3 hours, mostly i'm flying transport choppers and i end up with zero kills usually. I don't think another player could do this task at least as good as i'm doin it. But guess what, at the end i am satisfied, had a good evening with some friends.

    Hell, A2 has a Editor, it has dedicated server exe. If you want PvP, go ahead, create your map, open your server and you're good to go. Obviously, a majority of players want to play coop, else you wouldn't find as much server as you actually do but plenty of PvP servers.
    And don't even think of arguing that "proper PvP missions should be included in the game" as the most played coop missions aren't stock arma2 missions either.

    You want PvP? Fine, get your finger out, make a map, create a server and become active. Again people just wanting all presented on a silver platter instead of doing it themselves. Why is this? Scared someone could create a better mission than you? Can't take the competition there? Probably because it takes more than quick reflexes to create a challenging map, doesn't it?

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