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Thread: Observations and disagreements with recent command changes

  1. #1

    Thumbs down Observations and disagreements with recent command changes

    Why is the ai entering a free for all (uncommanded) killing machine mode when I switch from commanders seat to drivers seat in a vehicle?

    I can also no longer switch to drivers seat and command from there?

    PVP anti lock people are shafting the way the game is played for anyone who uses the AI in vehicles.

    I made a test mission in the editor and using AI in a tank when your in any other position than commanders seat is a mess.

    I cant believe these major game changing methods are being introduced.

    I appreciate what is trying to be fixed, but your going about it the wrong way and breaking the way others like to play the game with this "crusade".

    If I could have it my way we would go back to how the targeting worked in OFP and start from there. At the moment it is one bad band aid on another band aid and as I say... it's a mess.

    The the most intuitive way the targeting and AI control has ever been was in OFP. Since arma 1 it has gone down hill (starting with the obstructing backspace menu in tactical view and no graphical indication of what has been locked on many objects)

    Points:

    1. I cant switch to drivers seat temporarily to move the tank without the AI running amok shooting every thing in sight/ completely taking over the tank and locking my commands out (even the # commands eg "all-2-1" no target etc).

    2. I can't order the AI to cease fire when in drivers position.

    3. I can't assign targets from the drivers position

    4. I cant command fire from the drivers position.

    Which actual change is it in the change log that has broken all this?

    Do you player V player fanatics ever even consider coop players?

    I could not even imagine attempting any campaign mission now with these changes, it would be infuriating beyond belief. I can't believe Suma is so easily accepting such a change. I also believe the way its presented not many community members are aware of exactly what is begin changed here. I advise them to load up the mission editor and witness it fro themselves.

    The AI are simply not good enough to be allowed to have this control. If you played coop or the campaigns with vehicles you would know this. That is why OFP had the intuitive targeting (some might say over powered) system it had and it worked perfectly. And was needed (and still is!) due to how bad the AI are at driving and prioritising targets.

    This change should be reverted.
    Last edited by -=seany=-; Jan 16 2012 at 17:05.
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  2. #2
    I like the changes. Play as a Team: Problem solved
    Teach the AI how to drive. Give us supression effects for AI. Make AI ragdoll if they get hit. Give us proper animations for throwing Frags. Give us a proper wounding system. Fix the armored vests so that they don┬┤t protect the whole torso. Give us inertia influenced movement depending on the Weapon you have. Make every weapon have a collision model so that players prefer to clean houses with their pistol instead of their heavy MG. Introduce auto lowering of the weapon if it collides with the wall. www.Brigade2010.de

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonci87 View Post
    I like the changes. Play as a Team: Problem solved
    Play as a team:- explain.

    Should I have team chat with my Ai before I start the mission? Or do they now use VOIP or some thing? What chance is there to put your issues across with brain dead comments like that on this forum... Why do the first few post when ever I bring some thing like this up involve having to explain and re explain basic concepts to ignorant members who cant even be bothered fully read my post and try understand what I am trying to explain....

    "Be sure your brain is in gear before engaging mouth(keyboard).."
    Last edited by -=seany=-; Jan 16 2012 at 17:13.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonci87 View Post
    I like the changes. Play as a Team: Problem solved
    Wrong!.

    Seany is correct. Human Player should ALWAYS have command and control of the AI in his team/group. AIs ability to execute commands should be their difficulty settings.
    ...Free people unbannable...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by -=seany=- View Post
    PVP anti lock people are shafting the way the game is played for anyone who uses the AI in vehicles.
    Totally agree.

    At least give PVP a parameter to turn this off, but I want CLEVER AI to take over the functions that I would normally do (in that position)

  6. #6
    Gunnery Sergeant BigMorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonci87 View Post
    I like the changes. Play as a Team: Problem solved
    The AI are ignoring "Hold Fire" commands - it's a bug, not a feature.

    This is easy to repro and something that ought to be addressed, not condescendingly dismissed as "only a singelplayer problem; therefore, irrelevant."

    Is there a devHeaven ticket open on this subject yet?
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  7. #7
    Nice rant - except it is not nice but mostly rubbish.

    1. The change has zero relation to the locking debate.
    2. The reasons is the fix of this major bug finally: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/2353
    3. Confirmed by the lead programmer himself: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27614#note-3
    4. You can assign targets as group leader via radio (2-x) or the context sensitive command cursor
    5. Yes there is still the bug of the AI gunner to ignore hold fire: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27677

    X. You could have posted your rant also in here: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27614
    or here: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/2353#note-53

    See also: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27614#note-11

    For other useful suggestions how to make tanks (and other vehicles) used by both AI and player more useful,
    see this ticket and the related tickets: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/15293
    Last edited by .kju [PvPscene]; Jan 16 2012 at 18:00.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PvPscene View Post
    Nice rant - except it is not nice but mostly rubbish.

    1. The change has zero relation to the locking debate.
    2. The reasons is the fix of this major bug finally: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/2353
    3. Confirmed by the lead programmer himself: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27614#note-3
    4. You can assign targets as group leader via radio (2-x) or the context sensitive command cursor
    5. Yes there is still the bug of the AI gunner to ignore hold fire: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27677

    X. You could have posted your rant also in here: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27614
    or here: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/2353#note-53

    See also: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27614#note-11

    For other useful suggestions how to make tanks (and other vehicles) used by both AI and player more useful,
    see this ticket and the related tickets: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/15293

    Voicing my opinions on large sweeping changes to how the game is played by a vast majority of players is rubbish eh?

    I posted it here so we could get a broader community view of these changes. Most players do not visit Dev heaven. And as I also said, I did not know what ticket(s) have caused this change.

    1. I can no longer switch to driver seat and use tactical view to "lock" targets. I would say that has plenty of relation to the locking issue.

    2. I have never experienced that bug, and if that is what all these changes are caused by then it has caused more problems than solved.

    3. Yeah and what else does he say? "I understand the change may be unpleasant for someone used to previous functionality, but I am not sure what options do we have" Such statement pretty much confirms that this kind of fix is far from perfect.

    4. Firstly, using the command menu is unintuitive and really terrible alternative for assigning targets that no one would ever use in the heat of battle. Also, from the drivers position the context sensitive cursor does nothing. At least in my test with an M1.

    5. Ok, good to hear. What about all the other commands like: No Target, Target That, Fire etc? None of these work from drivers seat now.

    Please don't refer to this as a rant or call my opinions rubbish just because it opposes your view on how the game should be played KJU. I have a lot respect for you and I know you do a lot for our community. But I wont sit by while changes like this are implemented that break how a lot of people like to play the game. Or cause more frustration when trying to work with the Ai in vehicles.

    As I said earlier I appreciate what you are trying to do but at the moment this change is messing the game when trying to use vehicles and AI... even more so than it already was.
    Last edited by -=seany=-; Jan 16 2012 at 20:03.

  9. #9
    I have to strongly disagree. I personally welcome every change/bugfix that strengthens the autonomy and skills of my AI team mates, and this is one of those. Maybe stop treating them as cannonfodder and start using their skills to your advantage; let them do their jobs and do yours. You'd be surprised how well they can handle.

    This has nothing to do with PVP, COOP or SP play.

  10. #10
    Chief Warrant Officer Beagle's Avatar
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    I welcome every change zhats lessens the use of A.I. and tab as an exploit...and commanding an Tanks from driver seat via radar tab is an exploit...I can't believe it was ever meant that way since it was not that way in ArmA II. This exploitz allowed to fire at trargets that where not even rendered or that were obscured by smoke and terrain.

    it way, way bette now since the all knowing driver-commander is gone.
    And more autonomy by the crew and gunner is always welcome...before they just wiated to get killed by other tanks, deliberately firing MG on it.

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