MP thoughts

[metalcraze]

So what's stopping you from playing in some urban area and ignoring the rest of the map?

You'd be surprised but even long coops mostly take place in some localized areas unless it's one of those really really long multi-session operations.

And what makes people think that CQB IRL is closer to CS than it is to ArmA?

[batto]

So what's stopping you from playing in some urban area and ignoring the rest of the map?

You'd be surprised but even long coops mostly take place in some localized areas unless it's one of those really really long multi-session operations.

I'm just saying that BIS should put some effort into making some official "arcadish" MP mods/maps because it will attract more people. More people happy => more money/publicity for BIS => better games in future.

And what makes people think that CQB IRL is closer to CS than it is to ArmA?

I made link to CS to express the lack of CQB centric MP mod.

[metalcraze]

I'm just saying that BIS should put some effort into making some official "arcadish" MP mods/maps because it will attract more people.

So what you are saying that a team with a certain limit on resources should ditch focusing on improving what ArmA really is in favour of what it never meant to be?
And will it attract the right kind of people which is even more important?

BIS also tried to do what you ask with Shapur and Proving Grounds. And look - almost nobody plays on them.

More people happy => more money/publicity for BIS => better games in future.

I'm afraid reality doesn't work that way. The amount of people playing the game is often opposite to the quality of the game. See BF3/CS/CoD etc.
Because most people don't want to play the game as a team, they just want to get frags. That's why they need extremely simple games.
And ArmA isn't about getting frags and beeing leet which is something some people don't understand.

I made link to CS to express the lack of CQB centric MP mod.

You don't need any CQB centric mod. CQB is already in the game. CQB is close quarters battle. Weapons don't behave differently in long range battles and up close.
All one has to do is making a mere mission with a great possibility of CQB.

[batto]

So what you are saying that a team with a certain limit on resources should ditch focusing on improving what ArmA really is in favour of what it never meant to be?

The thing is making this stuff probably isn't that hard because you have the great RV engine under the hood which does the hard work. And how could you know what is ArmA meant to be? Are you working in BIS?

And will it attract the right kind of people which is even more important?

It'll attract the kind of people with money (at least I hope so). There could be special forum subsection for them if you're scared.

I'm afraid reality doesn't work that way. The amount of people playing the game is often opposite to the quality of the game. See BF3/CS/CoD etc.
Because most people don't want to play the game as a team, they just want to get frags. And ArmA isn't about getting frags and beeing leet which is something some people don't understand.

As I said it doesn't have to end up like BF3/CoD. Remember, it'll run on RV engine.

[NoRailgunner]

Imho BIS need to rework their mp browser/GUI to be more userfriendly eg:
+ general stuff about server/clan/group and contact info
+ overview window/screen of all addons/mods needed and allowed
+ which gamemode/mission and difficulty is currently set
+ which settings (3rd person on/off, crosshairs on/off...) are active
+ option to download required addons/mods

If one likes to play A3 with a bit more realism he just clicks + joins on "ArmaSim" servers and one who likes it more casual/shooterish he clicks + joins the "ArmArcade" servers. Or is my idea too simple and the A3 MP interface should be hard to use?

Guess that A3 will be released with some good SP, Coop and PvP missions just be patient. Meanwhile try + enjoy some more A2OA/CO missions or even try to make one or more.

[metalcraze]

The thing is making this stuff probably isn't that hard because you have the great RV engine under the hood which does the hard work. And how could you know what is ArmA meant to be? Are you working in BIS?

There's a good interview from 2001 where Marek said that the team wanted to show an authentic war. And the game itself was always like that since then.

It'll attract the kind of people with money (at least I hope so). There could be special forum subsection for them if you're scared.

The whole problem is that you can't cater both to realism crowd and arcade crowd. There's simply no middle ground. The whole problem here is that RV is about an authentic battlefield which is about slow-paced, well thought-out combat. Most people just want to run and gun.

I really still like to believe that it isn't all about money for BIS, but about making a great game in its own niche, which btw they a have a monopoly on now.

As I said it doesn't have to end up like BF3/CoD. Remember, it'll run on RV engine.

I don't understand what exactly do you lack in CQB.
You say this but then you say that it needs "arcadish" stuff without saying exactly what do you want.

[Tonci87]

Imho BIS need to rework their mp browser/GUI to be more userfriendly eg:
+ general stuff about server/clan/group and contact info
+ overview window/screen of all addons/mods needed and allowed
+ which gamemode/mission and difficulty is currently set
+ which settings (3rd person on/off, crosshairs on/off...) are active
+ option to download required addons/mods

If one likes to play A3 with a bit more realism he just clicks + joins on "ArmaSim" servers and one who likes it more casual/shooterish he clicks + joins the "ArmArcade" servers. Or is my idea too simple and the A3 MP interface should be hard to use?

Guess that A3 will be released with some good SP, Coop and PvP missions just be patient. Meanwhile try + enjoy some more A2OA/CO missions or even try to make one or more.

^That is a usefull post.
Yes the MP Browser could be greatly improved by adding stuff like this.

Its fascinating that always the same people are asking BIS to include Feature X like it can be found in BF or COD or CS or insertrandomfastpacedshooterhere into Arma3.
Please don´t try to turn Arma into another insertmainstreamshooterhere just because you want those features that shooter X has with a greater engagement range, realistic weapons and huge maps.

[antoineflemming]

So what's stopping you from playing in some urban area and ignoring the rest of the map?

You'd be surprised but even long coops mostly take place in some localized areas unless it's one of those really really long multi-session operations.

And what makes people think that CQB IRL is closer to CS than it is to ArmA?

Soldiers are trained to react quickly in close quarters environments. The big hindrance to this in ArmA is the lack of fluid animations and transitions. So, no, CQC at this stage is probably closer to something like BF3 than ArmA just because of how fluid the animations are. The other big thing is reaction time vs character reaction time. I know reactions shouldn't be instantaneous, but things such as building clearance should generally be "quick reaction". You don't get that sense from ArmA currently. And clunkiness isn't realistic. Maybe some people equate it with a sense of weight to the character, but that's the speed of the character. Real human movement is generally more fluid. Fluid movement ingame represents the presence of joints, which pivot and rotate.

[Katipo66]

@Metalcraze go back and read the OPs thread again, or at least the 3rd paragraph... IMHO Arma can cater for everyones tastes, I know because I like both... I like the slow methodical type of gameplay and I also like the more condensed PVP style of gameplay that arma can provide, It would be great to see some servers catering for some of the latter...

@Antoine.. "Clunkiness" is realistic, hold your arms out and drop to one knee, pivot while on one knee, then stand and move around, focus on your movement, is it smooth like in BF/COD?

[metalcraze]

Soldiers are trained to react quickly in close quarters environments.

The one reacting in ArmA is the dude with a keyboard and mouse in his hands.

The big hindrance to this in ArmA is the lack of fluid animations and transitions.

At the same time it's the only game which does transitions and animations of your soldier close to RL.

So, no, CQC at this stage is probably closer to something like BF3 than ArmA just because of how fluid the animations are.

There are no fluid animations in BF3. It's just a floating camera that can instantly switch height - it's as simple as coding Y=Y-10 when you press X. Unlike stances which soldier IRL carrying gear can't do.

Fluid != fast and arcadeish.

The other big thing is reaction time vs character reaction time. I know reactions shouldn't be instantaneous, but things such as building clearance should generally be "quick reaction". You don't get that sense from ArmA currently.

Actually you do. Unfortunately in reality reacting with your brain is one thing. Moving your body is another. Especially when this body carries something else.

And clunkiness isn't realistic.

Actually it is. Try carrying a nearly 1m long weapon in your hands that weighs close to 4 kgs and 20 kg of stuff on your front and on your back.
And what's this? Can't do those 360 turns at the speed of BF3 anymore? Weapon hits the walls, doesn't let you strafe?
Reality is clunky.

Maybe some people equate it with a sense of weight to the character, but that's the speed of the character. Real human movement is generally more fluid. Fluid movement ingame represents the presence of joints, which pivot and rotate.

As I've said no game but ArmA tried to do it so far.
In BF3 it is nothing but a camera which has no joints.

Metalcraze go back and read the OPs thread again, or at least the 3rd paragraph... IMHO Arma can cater for everyones tastes, I know because I like both... I like the slow methodical type of gameplay and I also like the more condensed PVP style of gameplay that arma can provide, It would be great to see some servers catering for some of the latter...

I'm not bashing PvP here. With an editor you can make whatever mission you want - it isn't BI or ArmA's fault that most public servers play Warfare and Domi.
You just can't cater to people who like to feel as close to real war as possible from behind their screens, be it PvP or Coop, and to people who like to float through the air scoring dat headshotz 1337 in 1 ms - is what I say.