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Thread: SOPA - Internet as we know it about to be gone?

  1. #481
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    Notwithstanding is a standard legal term and is used in many types of legal documents. It's use is not unusual here.
    e.g. The term notwithstanding is used as a preposition in drafting contracts to indicate that the wording that follows is to apply in spite of, without regard to, limited by, or prevented from operation by some other provision.

    That is perfectly normal legal language and the meaning is clear. Without such terms the practical benefits and application of this document would be difficult as anyone trying to prevent a cybersecurity threat would need lengthy legal advice before obtaining the information. By the time a judgement was made the hacking may have already taken place so this law would be redered impractical. It's common sense, time is a factor in preventing these crimes occurring.

    For clarity the clauses in CISPA where this is used are:
    (1) IN GENERAL-
    `(A) CYBERSECURITY PROVIDERS- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a cybersecurity provider, with the express consent of a protected entity for which such cybersecurity provider is providing goods or services for cybersecurity purposes, may, for cybersecurity purposes--
    `(i) use cybersecurity systems to identify and obtain cyber threat information to protect the rights and property of such protected entity; and
    `(ii) share such cyber threat information with any other entity designated by such protected entity, including, if specifically designated, the Federal Government.

    `(B) SELF-PROTECTED ENTITIES- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a self-protected entity may, for cybersecurity purposes--
    `(i) use cybersecurity systems to identify and obtain cyber threat information to protect the rights and property of such self-protected entity; and
    `(ii) share such cyber threat information with any other entity, including the Federal Government.
    Again, as is clear from the language, it's designed to prevent hacking and industrial espionage.
    Last edited by PELHAM; Apr 26 2012 at 16:08.

  2. #482
    Hi all

    In reply to PELHAM you seem to fail to comprehend that the use of that Weasel Word "Not-Withstanding" places this law above all other laws meant to protect human beings from the overarching power of the state and with its inclusion in CISPA comes the somewhat disturbing prospect of ascribing of those same powers to corporate legal fictions, as exampled in your quoted text, at the mere stroke of a pen.

    I am swiftly comming to the conclusion that:
    1) Either you do not comprehend how legally loose the wording of this legislation is, and it is that lack of constraint, something I mentioned earlier as typical of these types of changes to law, that charachterises them as being to the detriment of human beings, in their relationship with corporate legal fictions;
    2) Or you are in favour of corporate legal fictions being given more rights than human beings.

    As far as I can tell; unless you work as a shill for one of the aforementioned corporate legal fictions or as an apparatchik of the 1%ers or are indeed the same; or for a government security agency, in which case your knickers are showing; your sole purpose in supporting laws such as CISPA is to prevent the privacy of aforementioned corporate legal fictions being invaded, to the same degree as this very law allows human beings privacy to be invaded. Your motivation seems based on some unclear fear, of mysterious hackers bent on James Bond Villain like acts of taking over the world.

    This to me at least all seems a little odd, and not a little paranoid.

    PELHAM I refer you to the words of Benjamin Franklin:

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/quotable/quote04.htm
    because your posts on this subject seem to lack some basic human ethics or indeed morality.

    By the way Presiden Obama has already said he will veto CISPA as it stands.
    CISPA hit with veto threat before Friday vote in the House

    By Morgan Little

    April 26, 2012, 10:53 a.m.

    WASHINGTON -- The White House’s threat to veto the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act is prompting more amendments from its supporters as the bill heads toward a planned House vote on Friday.

    President Obama’s senior advisors will recommend he veto the bill if it passes Congress in its current form, the administration said on Wednesday, pointing out that the bill goes too far in releasing companies from liability if their computer networks are not secure and does not include enough oversight to limit how information gathered by the government can be shared. The administration also wants the Department of Homeland Security to be more involved in the procedures outlined in CISPA...
    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,2584558.story
    As always follow the link to get the full text of the story

    Kind Regards walker
    Last edited by walker; Apr 26 2012 at 18:26.

    You are only a bullet away from being stupid.

  3. #483
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    I have a long legal background and therefore am aware that all Acts of Parliament and ammendments thereof are drafted in the loosest terms possible to avoid future problems and the possibility of having to go back, repeal and start again. They do the same thing in the US and there is nothing remotely suspicious about it. It's standard practice and I can only think you find it surprising because you have never seen one before.

    For example if I take the 1st Statute book off my shelf it is the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974
    S2(1)It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.
    That is remarkably loose wording wouldn't you say? That is how acts are designed, they are supposed to be a catch all. The detail of the implementation is covered in subsequent Regulations and Official Guidance.

    Yeah we know about Obama doing anything for a few votes, see the previous page.
    Regarding CISPA and the prevention of Cyber crime I thought the levels of hacking, industrial espionage etc were well known? Obviously I'm mistaken, here you are:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberwarfare#Incidents

    Incidents
    In 2012, in a startling volley of allegations, India has been accused of hacking a U.S commission's e-mail communications, which primarily dealt with the economic and security relations between U.S and China. Reports confirm that hackers from an Indian government spy unit managed to post on the Internet, what is being understood be an Indian military intelligence document on cyber-spying. The document, reportedly discussed at length on ways to target the U.S - China commission aided with the expertise lent by western mobile phone manufacturers. The document, reportedly, also included transcripts of the emails exchanged between members of the commission.[50]

    On November 21, 2011, it was widely reported in the U.S. media that a hacker had destroyed a water pump at the Curran-Gardner Township Public Water District in Illinois.[51] However, it later turned out that this information was not only false, but had been inappropriately leaked from the Illinois Statewide Terrorism and Intelligence Center.[52]

    On October 6, 2011, it was announced that Creech AFB's drone and Predator fleet's command and control data stream has been keylogged, resisting all attempts to reverse the exploit, for the past two weeks.[53] The Air Force issued a statement that the virus had "posed no threat to our operational mission".[54]

    In July 2011, the South Korean company SK Communications was hacked, resulting in the theft of the personal details (including names, phone numbers, home and email addresses and resident registration numbers) of up to 35 million people. A trojaned software update was used to gain access to the SK Communications network. Links exist between this hack and other malicious activity and it is believed to be part of a broader, concerted hacking effort.[55]

    Operation Shady RAT is an ongoing series of cyber attacks starting mid-2006, reported by Internet security company McAfee in August 2011. The attacks have hit at least 72 organizations including governments and defense contractors.[56]

    On December 4 2010, a group calling itself the Pakistan Cyber Army hacked the website of India's top investigating agency, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI). The National Informatics Center (NIC) has begun an inquiry.[57]

    On November 26 2010, a group calling itself the Indian Cyber Army hacked the websites belonging to the Pakistan Army and the others belong to different ministries, including the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Education, Ministry of Finance, Pakistan Computer Bureau, Council of Islamic Ideology, etc. The attack was done as a revenge for the Mumbai terrorist attacks, which had confirmed the involvement of Pakistani terrorists.[58]

    In October 2010, Iain Lobban, the director of the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), said Britain faces a "real and credible" threat from cyber attacks by hostile states and criminals and government systems are targeted 1,000 times each month, such attacks threatened Britain’s economic future, and some countries were already using cyber assaults to put pressure on other nations.[59]

    In September 2010, Iran was attacked by the Stuxnet worm, thought to specifically target its Natanz nuclear enrichment facility. The worm is said to be the most advanced piece of malware ever discovered and significantly increases the profile of cyberwarfare.[60][61]

    In May 2010, In response to Indian Cyber Army defacing Pakistani websites, 1000+ Indian websites were defaced by PakHaxors, TeaMp0isoN, UrduHack & ZCompany Hacking Crew, among those were the Indian CID website, local government of Kerala, Box Office of Indian, Brahmos missile website, Indian HP helpdesk, Indian Institute of Science, and The Indian Directorate General of Shipping.[citation needed]

    In July 2009, there were a series of coordinated denial of service attacks against major government, news media, and financial websites in South Korea and the United States.[62] While many thought the attack was directed by North Korea, one researcher traced the attacks to the United Kingdom.[63]

    Russian, South Ossetian, Georgian and Azerbaijani sites were attacked by hackers during the 2008 South Ossetia War.[64]

    In 2007 the website of the Kyrgyz Central Election Commission was defaced during its election. The message left on the website read "This site has been hacked by Dream of Estonian organization". During the election campaigns and riots preceding the election, there were cases of Denial-of-service attacks against the Kyrgyz ISPs.[65]

    In September 2007, Israel carried out an airstrike on Syria dubbed Operation Orchard. U.S. industry and military sources speculated that the Israelis may have used cyberwarfare to allow their planes to pass undetected by radar into Syria.[66][67]

    In April 2007, Estonia came under cyber attack in the wake of relocation of the Bronze Soldier of Tallinn.[68] The largest part of the attacks were coming from Russia and from official servers of the authorities of Russia.[69] In the attack, ministries, banks, and media were targeted.[70][71]

    In the 2006 war against Hezbollah, Israel alleges that cyber-warfare was part of the conflict, where the Israel Defense Force (IDF) intelligence estimates several countries in the Middle East used Russian hackers and scientists to operate on their behalf. As a result, Israel attached growing importance to cyber-tactics, and became, along with the U.S., France and a couple of other nations, involved in cyber-war planning. Many international high-tech companies are now locating research and development operations in Israel, where local hires are often veterans of the IDF's elite computer units.[72] Richard A. Clarke adds that "our Israeli friends have learned a thing or two from the programs we have been working on for more than two decades."[2]:8
    Last edited by PELHAM; Apr 27 2012 at 00:30.

  4. #484
    PELHAM, You've absolutely no idea what are you talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by PELHAM
    In September 2010, Iran was attacked by the Stuxnet worm, thought to specifically target its Natanz nuclear enrichment facility. The worm is said to be the most advanced piece of malware ever discovered and significantly increases the profile of cyberwarfare.[60][61]
    You realize that this was set up by US/Israel?

    Quote Originally Posted by PELHAM
    In September 2007, Israel carried out an airstrike on Syria dubbed Operation Orchard. U.S. industry and military sources speculated that the Israelis may have used cyberwarfare to allow their planes to pass undetected by radar into Syria.[66][67]
    Are you serious? Did you read any of these incidents before copy-pasting?

    Who is the victim of these Internet attacks? Nation!? Society?!?!11!

    How exactly will CISPA help if these attacks originate from Russia or other country?. Finding terrorists doing this inside US can be done without it (ISPs are required to store traffic for some time).

    Quote Originally Posted by PELHAM
    Yeah we know about Obama doing anything for a few votes, see the previous page.
    So those supporting CISPA are all true, and those opposing are doing it just for votes? You're such a hypocrite. You don't know, you just speculate in favor of your arguments and "we" is You.


    I think CISPA is just attempt to catch up with China.

    And BTW PELHAM, your arguments never won against mine, even if you have last words. ;-)
    Last edited by batto; Apr 27 2012 at 01:19.

  5. #485
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    They are examples of the extent of Cybercrime, industrial espionage and state sponsored espionage. I quoted that section in full to give a comprehensive picture of the problem. The information that will be shared through CISPA is not just about US citizens as most hacking affecting the US is done from outside it's borders. CISPA is designed to prevent all kinds of attack not just domestic. The international oposition to CISPA, mostly by Russian State Media, proves it. Yet again someone fails to comprehend what the law is for and who it will be mainly targeting. I will resist reaching for the bold text and face palms as that would be childish and would also indicate that the person has no logical or coherent argument to offer in response.

    If you would like anything else explained please don't hesitate to ask.
    Last edited by PELHAM; Apr 27 2012 at 02:41.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by PELHAM
    They are examples of the extent of Cybercrime, industrial espionage and state sponsored espionage. I quoted that section in full to give a comprehensive picture of the problem.
    Nope, you just tried to amaze us by irrelevant wikipedia copypasta and buzzwords of 21st century like "cyberspace", "cybercrime", ... and failed as usual. All your examples are either irrelevant to CISPA because it doesn't happen on Internet (even though it has word "cyber" in it) and not a sigle remaining example is relevant because DDOS or compromise of website is totally irrelevant to 99.999999% of people.

    Some website with holes got owned? Well, who cares? How would CISPA help?

    Website of president of Georgia is down during Russian attack? Oh, what a lost. Nope, srsly, who cares? How would CISPA help?

    Someone from China is copying sensitive data from US government? How would CISPA help? Can you answer PELHAM? I'd like expert analysis on this. Answer this please!

    One example is serious though and it's Stuxnew which was carried out by US and allies in cooperation with Siemens it seems. How would CISPA help?

    You've no idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by PELHAM
    The information that will be shared through CISPA is not just about US citizens as most hacking affecting the US is done from outside it's borders. CISPA is designed to prevent all kinds of attack not just domestic.
    You've no idea what are you talking about. Stop watching Fox News.

    Quote Originally Posted by walker
    Your motivation seems based on some unclear fear, of mysterious hackers bent on James Bond Villain like acts of taking over the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by PELHAM
    The international oposition to CISPA, mostly by Russian State Media, proves it.
    ROFL and facepalm at the same time. Pathetic...

    Quote Originally Posted by PELHAM
    If you would like anything else explained please don't hesitate to ask.
    Thank you, but no. You're the last person I'd ask anything about this subject because:

    1) You don't have slightest idea what are you talking about. You simply don't have knowledge to answer my questions.
    2) You don't answer questions. I can't be sure if you'd reply. You've already a lot of questions in queue, look at my previous post.



    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...hed-vote.shtml
    Last edited by batto; Apr 27 2012 at 09:27.

  7. #487
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    I guess someones still upset about Libya lol.

  8. #488
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    Guys its simply not fun to discuss with Pelham, he doesn´t seem to, or doesn´t wan´t to understand some things. He replys to arguments with absolutely not related stories. For me he´s just a troll. Don´t feed it.
    Teach the AI how to drive. Teach AI Tank drivers to turn their front towards the enemy. Give us supression effects for AI. Make AI ragdoll if they get hit. Give us proper animations for throwing Frags. Give us a proper wounding system. Fix the armored vests so that they don´t protect the whole torso. Give us inertia influenced movement depending on the Weapon you have. www.Brigade2010.de

  9. #489
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17853518

    Digital Economy Act's anti-piracy measures are delayed

    The controversial piracy law, the Digital Economy Act, has again been delayed, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport has confirmed.
    Posting for reference as on topic in some ways.

    Not all legislation is good, even in some more obvious areas as piracy.

    SICK OF IDIOTS & STEAM.

  10. #490
    Hi all

    The Republican party have forced CISPA through the House of Representatives. So the fight now moves to the Senate.

    This Charter to Spy on you, the clue is in the name; CISPA stands for:
    Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act

    In other words the purpose of the act is to protect corporate legal fictions and big government agencies, from you suing them, for illegaly sharing your information. This law makes it illegal for you to sue them for stealing your information.

    With the as expected corporate sponsored Ben Quayle ammendment you can now be spied on by corporate legal fictions and big government for a whole bunch of reasons. Esentialy all a corporation or government agency has to say they thought they were protecting some one or something else, from anything. No Warrant, no judge; just their decision and they can sell and trade your information, they call it an administration fee. And that "Not-withstanding" weasel word means there is not a thing you can do about it.

    Do not vote for or donate to those Politicians who voted for it. Put them out of office. This is the list of politicians you should not vote for or give any money too:
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...D-IN-RUSH-VOTE

    Be aware that other politicians like Ron Paul were too Chicken to vote against it.
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h192

    Donate instead to the politicians and organisations that are fighting for your rights as human beings.

    And Vote for those politicians who stood up for your rights!

    Write and email to the companies and individuals who are sponsoring your rights being stolen! Warn them you intend to Boycott their products and services as a result.
    http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/i...aa316d8497d02e

    Time to make life hell for these individuals and corporations. Pester and nag the crap out of them. Make sure they hear you. Join the mass actions planned to disrupt and punish them.

    CNET has produced an FAQ on how CISPA will affect you time to get involved before your private information is shared and bought and sold by every corporate legal fiction in the US.
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57...ffect-you-faq/

    Kind Regards walker
    Last edited by walker; Apr 27 2012 at 14:07.

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