Weapon Modelling (newbie needing input)

[Alwarren]

Hi all.

Recently, I started to dabble in the arts of modelling. So far I have done next to no modelling so please bear this in mind when you see the results

I am using Blender 2.6 for modelling (with Leopotam's import/export plugins) and have successfully (more or less) imported a creation into ARMA II. My first project is the Remington ACR (since I like the gun and found good reference pictures of it). But I am not sure how many polygons are acceptable, and there are other questions that popped up.

First, here's my first model (as I said, my first modelling job at all, so don't be too harsh ):

(ACOG in the last picture done by Varanon)
Obviously untextured except for a baked Ambient Occlusion map.

Now for the questions:

1) How many polys are okay to use? The ACOG version has some 7500 faces. I looked at the ARMA example models and they are much lower, but then, time has passed since ARMA and I assume that ARMA 2 generally has more polies.

2) Is there any preference on Quads vs. Triangles? I use mostly quads since it is easier to model with Blender. Should I convert them to triangles, or are quads ok?

3) How big should textures generally be? The ACR uses a 2048x2048 UV map, the ACOG as well. Is that too much?

4) Is there a better way of positioning the model than trial and error? I had a hard time getting the model to fit into the soldier's hand with his finger on the trigger.

5) Am I right in assuming that the pilot view LOD is used in first person view?

6) How do I animate the bolt, trigger, etc? I don't suppose that can be done in Blender?

That's it for now Any feedback from the pro's would be highly appreciated.

[PuFu]

1. if 7500 is for both gun and acog, it's ok. Seems that the gun is around 5000, which is decent. There is no set limit (besides the p3d limit). You are right about A2 models: they have higher poly counts, especially because of the moving parts (the scars have around 4k without any attachments, and it is fair to assume they can go up to 6000+ with scopes and grenade launchers etc). I think you could optimize the polycount on the scope, but you should be fine either way

2. quads will do fine. Either way DX converts/read everything to/from triangles, but you don't need to have only triangles in O2.

3. 2k for ACR seems fine. 2k for the acog seems a bit much, maybe 1k? Anyhow, as a rule of thumb, it is better to get everything on a 2048x2048 texture than have 2 1024x1024 map. You can have the other maps or some of them (spec, ambient shadow/occlusion and normals) at lower resolution if needed

4. you don't need to do it that way. There is a mem lod and configs to set its position in guys hand

5. yes, you are.

6. you can't do it in blender. You will need to create a model.cfg and config the animations yourself using the selections you previously set. Have a look over A1 samples.

[Alwarren]

Thanks for the input

Yes, the gun itself is about 5k. Since there's no other attachments yet, I guess optimizing the polycount on the ACOG would be a good idea.

[Alwarren]

Alright, thanks to the pointers I got the gun animated, brass ejecting, bolt moving and staying open when the gun is empty.

I am trying to find out now how to do the zeroing. In general, my gun shoots too high. I have put the eye vertex in the memory LOD in line with the front and rear gunsight, but that doesn't work.

Any pointers?

[da12thMonkey]

I am trying to find out now how to do the zeroing. In general, my gun shoots too high. I have put the eye vertex in the memory LOD in line with the front and rear gunsight, but that doesn't work.

Any pointers?

Where abouts are your 'konec hlavne' and 'usti hlavne' memory points?

They should be completely in-line with each other along the bore-line of your barrel, with 'usti hlavne' at the muzzle and 'konec hlavne' towards the breech.

Secondly, check the value of your 'distanceZoomMin=' and 'distanceZoomMax=' entries in the config. These correspond roughly to the distances in meters at which the bullet should cross middle of the sights - if the value is very large the bullet will hit high at short ranges - depending on the trajectory of the ammo you use (it's more noticeable with low-velocity rounds as their ballistic arc is more severe).

[Alwarren]

They should be completely in-line with each other along the bore-line of your barrel, with 'usti hlavne' at the muzzle and 'konec hlavne' towards the breech.

Cheers, that was the problem. The front memory point was 0.2 mm off. Re-placed them and entered numerical coordinates directly, and now it is accurately zeroed at 300 meters.

I'm using the M4A1 config as a base and haven't changed anything yet except for the icon, name etc., so I guess the other values are okay for now.

Thanks again. Coming along nicely

[da12thMonkey]

Cheers, that was the problem. The front memory point was 0.2 mm off. Re-placed them and entered numerical coordinates directly, and now it is accurately zeroed at 300 meters.

I'm using the M4A1 config as a base and haven't changed anything yet except for the icon, name etc., so I guess the other values are okay for now.

Thanks again. Coming along nicely

Glad you got it sorted. I recently had a problem with one of the guns I'm working on, shooting too high, and the view being shifted well above the 'eye' memory point I had given it; you had to aim at the floor for it to shoot forward - turns out I deleted one of the hlavne memory points completely.

For future reference: A quick way to align them is to select one of the mem vertexes, press 'c' to place a pin on that point (should appear as a large-ish black +), press shift+c to activate the pin (should now appear as a black + through a circle), then select the other mem point and use the scale tool to input a scale of zero in the two planar axes where you want it to align with the pin/mem point.

[Leopotam]

2) Is there any preference on Quads vs. Triangles? I use mostly quads since it is easier to model with Blender. Should I convert them to triangles, or are quads ok?

You can export quads in same way as triangles.

[Max Power]

Directx uses triangles only, so it's the same at the end of the day. Sometimes the way you 'triangulate' a quad (and the quads around it) affects the vertex shading. The human brain has a much easier time with quads and quad flow. Since it's all the same at the end, and it's easier to understand flow, fix problems, etc. with quads, I would use quads. As you discover obvious shading and/or normals problems, you can manually triangulate or otherwise influence the triangulation of the offending polygons then.

[Alwarren]

Hi.

Thanks for all the feedback, it's highly appreciated. I guess it wouldn't hurt if I write all of this down once I am finished with this, some of the stuff is difficult to come by.

Another thing I wonder about now is the following: I have external p3d's with e.g. a laser target painter or a flashlight. These need memory LOD reference points, like position/direction.

1. I currently use these as proxies, i.e. I didn't make them part of the weapon but rather put a proxy on the weapon where e.g. the aimpoint should be, and they show up in game. I am wondering now, though, is that a recommended practice, or is there any advantage of replicating the attachments in the model?
2. Are all LOD's of models merged? I.e. when I have a laser that comes with its own memory LOD with reference points, are these available for defining the laser, or do I need to have them with my weapon?

Thanks!


~~~ Alwarren