US Stealth Air Fleet mostly grounded?

[Max Power]

The devil is in the detail: You mention a metal golf ball which doesn't have the same RCS as a "normal" golf ball. Since the planes also use radar absorbing coating the RCS is also frequency dependent; I've read (I think on SimHQ in the SAM-simulator-thread) about the shooting down of the F-117 in Serbia where they used a longer-wave radar band, assuming those wavelengths would reflect from the Nighthawk's interior, to track its path.
So it could be indeed that the current Stealth fighters have a lower RCS for some radar frequencies, and the F-117 for some other. It all depends on the equipment the enemy is using.

I'm not sure where you think someone mentioned a normal golf ball. Radar cross section is always measured against metal spheres of a size that would return the same amount of radar energy.

RAM coating is always 1/4 of the expected wavelength to be absorbed, I think.

[RKSL-Rock]

I dont see how the grounding of the F-35, which is still very much in development and not deployed, is such a big issue? Its not like they're losing any capability by having the 20 prototype/test batch grounded. Normal media sensationalism bullshit imho.
@NodUnit, as Max points out, the F-35 and F-22 have much lower radar cross sections than the F-117 ever did, making them more stealthy. Technology moves on, as do the designs.

Sorry DM that's just not true. The F-117 actually has the same RCS as the B-2 and the F-22 and F35 have about twice that from the front. (RCS changes relative to the angle presented to the emitter) If we're talking about all-angle/mean-RCS the F-117 is still 10x better than the F-22 and F-35. As someone said earlier. This new generation is really just a compromise between function and detectability. Especially since they now all have radar and datalinks etc broadcasting away. It just increases the probability of detection.

I agree with you about the sensationalist media BS. I do wish people would realise that Stealth isn't the super weapon the defence contractors and politicians would have us believe. All it is, is a method of getting closer without being seen or locked.

[Slatts]

its like "oh noes two planes are grounded! We have no air defence!"

but wait....what about the F-16, F-15, F-18 and so on?

[Baff1]

I agree with you about the sensationalist media BS. I do wish people would realise that Stealth isn't the super weapon the defence contractors and politicians would have us believe. All it is, is a method of getting closer without being seen or locked.

I think it had it's day.
The secret in "secret weapon" is card that can only be played once.

Imagine instead that it had been a Cold War scenario when F117 first flew, and they took down soviet air defences with it, not Saddams.

[RangerPL]

Sorry DM that's just not true. The F-117 actually has the same RCS as the B-2 and the F-22 and F35 have about twice that from the front. (RCS changes relative to the angle presented to the emitter) If we're talking about all-angle/mean-RCS the F-117 is still 10x better than the F-22 and F-35. As someone said earlier. This new generation is really just a compromise between function and detectability. Especially since they now all have radar and datalinks etc broadcasting away. It just increases the probability of detection.

I agree with you about the sensationalist media BS. I do wish people would realise that Stealth isn't the super weapon the defence contractors and politicians would have us believe. All it is, is a method of getting closer without being seen or locked.

Yeah, the new generation stealth (actually low observability) aircraft might have a larger radar cross-section but they're also faster, more maneuverable and better armed, which makes them more effective.

[Dysta]

Yeah, the new generation stealth (actually low observability) aircraft might have a larger radar cross-section but they're also faster, more maneuverable and better armed, which makes them more effective.

I'm rather afraid that S400 with UHF radar system could put F-22 in misery even in maximum speed.

[RangerPL]

I'm rather afraid that S400 with UHF radar system could put F-22 in misery even in maximum speed.

That's true, but even S-400 has its weaknesses. The USAF isn't stupid, they wouldn't send their fighters on a suicide attack towards S-400-defended areas.

[Dysta]

That's true, but even S-400 has its weaknesses. The USAF isn't stupid, they wouldn't send their fighters on a suicide attack towards S-400-defended areas.

Yep.

There's a rumor about the future of the fighter jet, NOBODY will going to drive that thing when UCAV can perform more than fighter pilot can do (Movie "Stealth"?). I have no idea why people still want to get themselves killed with the fighter jet, which is already overrun human limits.

[DM]

Sorry DM that's just not true.

Strong Dejavu! (Tho the nubers seem to have changed now mew facts have come to light)

One day that little factoid might stick properly in my brain, who knows


@Dysta, yeah, well, manned fighters were supposed to have been dead in the 50's, and we all know how well the phasing out of aircraft cannons went in the 60's... It'll take a little while longer yet...

[IceBreakr]

When two are arguing, third comes out a winner?