Flight Dynamics Feedback From Real Helicopter Pilots

[nightsta1ker]

I think he means, No Tail Rotor....Or Damaged Tail Rotor....I don't think he meant to refer to the NOTAR Tail rotor system used on the MD520N or similar.

@ocramweb
NOTAR is a term used by Mcdonnell Douglas Helicopters to describe their anti-torque system http://www.mdhelicopters.com/v2/notar.php

That's what I thought he meant. Peaked my interest. And by the way, Mcdonnell Douglas is no more. Now it's MD Helicopters, which is another entirely different company that bought the rights to the airframe from Boeing who absorbed Mcdonnell Douglas. The company is not doing so hot, aside from the fact that the 500 series and even the 520N are amazing and versatile helicopters, not many are being sold. And the company is losing millions in lawsuits over the 600N which has an abyssimal accident rate. Nearly half of the 600 fleet has either crashed or been grounded since the aircraft's inception.

[ocramweb]

You could use the script I made up for this to make things easier if you like.
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=121850

Thanks, I made myself, different combination of those just for testing, the heli at first release, but thanks for sharing it with the community...I didn't my bad. You could add a-280 and a +610 on the weight as well so people can feel the difference between an empty heli and a one at max weight, or even over:

I think the weight use on the demo heli is taken from a 530F
Empty Weight=722 kg
Max Takeoff Weight=1610 kg
*set at 1000kg by default in demo (vehicle player setcustomWeightRTD +650)
as well as with and without wind ... (30 setWindforce 10)

That was fun. I enjoyed attempting running landings without a tail rotor. In a hover, the helicopter torque was very noticeable and the right yaw felt correct; although I have not been in that situation myself. I did notice that the tail rotor had some effectiveness in forward flight....even when the damage was set to 1.0. I wonder what that damage rating actually means. If it means that the tail rotor is no longer turning (i.e. a tail rotor gearbox failure) then there should not be any response from pedal input.

If you look closely at the tail with damage set to 1 there is NO tail rotor no more at all ! (visually)
Then during a landing with a tail rotor failure, I will avoid using the anti torque pedals..., and just right turn by using the collective, keeping enough speed not to twirl your head off

What do you mean by this?

And effectively, I meant NOTAR, not to go into the side effect of losing the maneuverability on the heli, but just to emphasis the fact that the preview, make us use the anti torque pedals not far from the way we will need to use them on a notar system, way less than we should with a tail rotor.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

(not endorsed on Notar myself, but by the say of those who were...)

Any of you have to induce some pedal correction under 25 torque in no wind condition ingame ? I lift off at 14 empty and 17 at max weight (takistant runway summer time) but I do not need to use the anti torque pedals under 25 or event 30 torque (depending of force and wind direction..) It does not make me feel right at all..

[nightsta1ker]

Thanks, I made myself, different combination of those just for testing, the heli at first release, but thanks for sharing it with the community...I didn't my bad. You could add a-280 and a +610 on the weight as well so people can feel the difference between an empty heli and a one at max weight, or even over:

I think the weight use on the demo heli is taken from a 530F
Empty Weight=722 kg
Max Takeoff Weight=1610 kg
*set at 1000kg by default in demo (vehicle player setcustomWeightRTD +650)
as well as with and without wind ... (30 setWindforce 10)



If you look closely at the tail with damage set to 1 there is NO tail rotor no more at all ! (visually)
Then during a landing with a tail rotor failure, I will avoid using the anti torque pedals..., and just right turn by using the collective, keeping enough speed not to twirl your head off



And effectively, I meant NOTAR, not to go into the side effect of losing the maneuverability on the heli, but just to emphasis the fact that the preview, make us use the anti torque pedals not far from the way we will need to use them on a notar system, way less than we should with a tail rotor.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

(not endorsed on Notar myself, but by the say of those who were...)

Any of you have to induce some pedal correction under 25 torque in no wind condition ingame ? I lift off at 14 empty and 17 at max weight (takistant runway summer time) but I do not need to use the anti torque pedals under 25 or event 30 torque (depending of force and wind direction..) It does not make me feel right at all..

I've never flown a NOTAR helicopter, so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that NOTAR helicopters had WEAK pedal control and required MORE pedal input by the pilot. I know about coandă effect, and thus raising collective means less left pedal required and that this is what you meant, but in foreward flight I have heard that the aircraft is not as manueverable due to less pedal effectiveness. A U.S. Border Patrol pilot I knew told me that he was thoroughly worn out after just an hour of flying the MD600N. He hated it and hoped they would replace them. As of now the entired Border Patrol fleed of 600Ns are in storage. I have however heard that the 520Ns are alot better. Glendale PD in SoCal has been operating them for years with no issues and they love them.

[ocramweb]

that's what I meant .
and good luck for your checkride

[nightsta1ker]

that's what I meant .
and good luck for your checkride

Yeah thanks... I'm so close, yet so far away, lol!

[b101_uk]

First, I am not a pilot but I have been at the controls of helicopters a couple of times over the past 30 years, however it seems to me that that there is to much effective lift at minimum collective pitch

This is either because the helicopter it to light,

Gravity at ~9.81m/sec is not working correctly giving the correct mass,

Air is to dense at a standard atmospheric pressure and altitude,

The down thrust effect assigned to the main rotor at a given collective pitch is too high,


Next it’s the function of “load” i.e. fuel/payload/passengers etc. there seems to be insufficient effect of passenger weights vs. required collective pitch and cyclic deflections to initiate movement/change/etc. and thus the countering of torque, also there is the effect on control trim pre and post “load”

e.g. you would expect there to be a change in required control trim between a lone pilot and then the addition of 3 passengers at an additional ~225kg distributed uniformly around the rotor CoG,

I.e. a change in the countering of torque to account for the extra power required for the extra collective pitch for lifting the extra weight.
a change in general cyclic deflection from the position countering the weight of the pilot in the ~10:30h position relative to the rotor CoG (cyclic deflected slightly to the ~04:30h position to support that pilot weight) to a more central cyclic deflection with 3 passengers or changes appropriate for single passenger in addition to the pilot in either the other front seat or any of the rear seats.

I am sure I do detect some change in the above but the effects are just to mute given the high proportion in weight a single ~75kg (+-25kg) person is relative to the MD500 like light helicopter, e.g. I am between~ 1/11th and ~1/16th of the MTW or between ~1/5th to ~1/7th OEW of MD500, or if you have ever driven a car which merely sits on 4 wheels you will have noticed a drastic change you feel between driving with just yourself and when you have 4 adult people in a car some ware between a Smart car and a basic Golf/ford Focus in total weight.

After all the carrying of that extra weight is reliant on the compressibility of air and power and not just the mere resting on 4 wheels!

But then what do I know.

[nightsta1ker]

My response to that is: Amount of lift with collective input varies with model of helicopter. Flying the H269C/S300C requires much more control movement than an R22, just as one example. So, I would have to say, it's relative. Also, perhaps your control sensitivities are not set properly. Depending on the setup different users may experience different things.

---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

Then again, you could be completely right. Not something I noticed as being too unrealistic in my test flying though.

[ocramweb]

b101_uk < you can set the sensitivity of your controller for collective input to become very realistic

[RUBIX]

Has anyone noticed that vortex ring state (settling with power) seems to have an introduction in the last two updates? At 0 knots and a high descent rate, the helicopter becomes unstable and pitches, roles, and yaws. However, when I add more collective, the helicopter seems to recover itself without any forward airspeed; although this does take a little time.

[EagleEye[GER]]

Has anyone noticed that vortex ring state (settling with power) seems to have an introduction in the last two updates? At 0 knots and a high descent rate, the helicopter becomes unstable and pitches, roles, and yaws. However, when I add more collective, the helicopter seems to recover itself without any forward airspeed; although this does take a little time.

No haven`t noticed that yet. You know, recover from VR with giving collective shouldn`t work, AFAIK. I really hope that these effects and the FM for proper recover techniques make it in the final release.