Automatic Mod Downloading

[Panda_pl]

Torrent idea is nice but people would disable it while playing because it would cause lag.
Server hosted mods are nice idea in theory, but I stand by my original comment. The additional traffic would generate additional costs and admins would just disable the feature.

Big source mods (Insurgency) are not downloadable from servers. You need to install them via Steam like other Source games. It only works for small mods. Even then many servers just tell you to go download the mod and come back once you're ready. Most of those mods are quite simplistic.

In addition to this ArmA servers need more room and bandwidth than other multiplayer games mentioned AFAIK. Bi did allow downloading mission files off the server so it's obviously their decision not to do the same for larger mod files.

Solutions to problems often do not scale.

[GossamerSolid]

Big source mods (Insurgency) are not downloadable from servers. You need to install them via Steam like other Source games. It only works for small mods.

Nope, you CANNOT make that comparison. The way mods for the actual Source Engine works is that newly compiled code and art assets must be installed like a game because those Mods RUN like a seperate game.

The way mods work in Arma is that you put PBO files in a folder and it runs them. So no, you can't make that comparison at all.

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Just a headsup mate



If thats true I go rent myself a game server there for $150 and pay $10 for my 45+TB bandwidth I need with Armaholic. This is going to save me around 500 euro a month ........such an amazing deal, I am sure there is a catch so better read the terms of service first which I did

8GB max HD space usage, 1GB max memory usage, no peer-to-peer.............so I guess with a release like ACE, I44, CWR and a few others your soon up to 8GB.
And what about this:


Really, if file hosting would be so easy and cheap do you really think I would have needed to add so many ads on Armaholic?

Didn't read that, my mistake. It's still possible to be used as a redirect location for fast downloads if you archive the files and split them. I know the source and Unreal engines support BZip2 compression which works pretty good.

But yes, that is a limitation. There are of course always catches with stuff like this

[batto]

Torrent idea is nice but people would disable it while playing because it would cause lag.

Lag from what?

Server hosted mods are nice idea in theory, but I stand by my original comment. The additional traffic would generate additional costs and admins would just disable the feature.

What additional traffic are you talking about? What's the difference between downloading 3GB from 1 web server and downloading 3GB from torrent seed? With BitTorrent you can split these 3GB between many seeds. uTP is more friendly protocol if you don't want other application to lag.

Big source mods (Insurgency) are not downloadable from servers. You need to install them via Steam like other Source games. It only works for small mods. Even then many servers just tell you to go download the mod and come back once you're ready. Most of those mods are quite simplistic.

What "only works for small mods"? Why aren't "big mods downloadable from servers"? If steam doesn't "download from server" what method does it use to get the game? Also... screw Steam.

Solutions to problems often do not scale.

Problems are here to be solved.

[GossamerSolid]

Mods in the source engine aren't the same as Addons (Mods) for ArmA 2.

They also don't have anything to do with Steam, it has to do with the Source Engine. If you read my other post, you need to download/install them outside of a game because they are treated like totally seperate games. They have their own executables.

[PuFu]

@Gossamer
regarding bandwidth and additional fees - I hope Foxhound explained it pretty well (i thank you for that mate)
but:

Server hosting isn't a right, it's a privledge... an expensive one.

It depends where are you looking at it from. For instance the mirrors for SixU are limited - reaching towards 10-12. You would expect more ppl to jump in the bandwaggon and put their bandwidth up. it just doesnt happen.
You could say, from an server/admin owner, that it is a privilege to be allowed to play on my own server, and not a right.

If everyone out there would be keeping that bandwidth for themselves, or server for themselves in extreme cases, there would be no public servers for the pubs to play on.
There are a lot of things that are taken for granted, from BIS, or from different members or arma communities. I am not complaining, it is just the way it is.

@batto
while peer to peer could be an option, i don't think it can solve the entire (theoretic) problem altogether. There will always be people with limited connections, or limited bandwidth (aussy ppl for instance), even 5 years from now.
On the other hand, forcing server owner to host the mods they are using, while in theory sounds fair, is also not really possible to do. Especially if you want to keep latency high and allow the game server to make use of the existing bandwidth, instead of splitting it between the downloader party and the lads playing.

[GossamerSolid]

Look, bottom line, here's what I'm saying.

Right now servers in the game don't even provide the option, people go download mods and install them on their own. If the feature would be supported and the server admins don't have the available bandwidth, they simply don't use it

I don't see any other argument that I can make...

Plus who is saying you have to host a download for a mod such as ACE (Or any other large). What if you want your server to provide downloads for some small gameplay mods you are enforcing, but you say to people "You need ACE".

Just because the option for allowing any size of file to be downloaded from a host, doesn't mean that the server admin SHOULD set it up that way.

[Nikoladis]

Well ArmA games is already on steam.

Games like Skyrim also have both Addons and Mods. Steam handles download of that content real fine. Also the big files.

I hope ArmA 3 will make use of Steam for downloading Mods and Addons.

The guys who want to download from Armaholic and install themselves and stuff, should still be able to.

But for most people, get downloadable content, free and paid (as now), through Steam would be a most welcome addition.

[GossamerSolid]

Well ArmA games is already on steam.

Games like Skyrim also have both Addons and Mods. Steam handles download of that content real fine. Also the big files.

I hope ArmA 3 will make use of Steam for downloading Mods and Addons.

The guys who want to download from Armaholic and install themselves and stuff, should still be able to.

But for most people, get downloadable content, free and paid (as now), through Steam would be a most welcome addition.

Skryim is a steamworks game, hence it can use the Steam Workshop as a mod downloading source, but ArmA 3 will not be steamworks, so that's out of the question.

[tacticalnuggets]

This thread continues on because its important. It is definitely funny seeing people frustrated with getting dayz working. However, you have to understand the population and how the global system works for getting more people into the game. People are, on average, not very smart or tech savvy. You have to make it easier for them to get into modded servers without imposing a community made tool that cant be found built into the game.

I read a Sciam article that actually reminded me of this situation. It had to do with the time efficiency of purchasing items online. I currently find it pretty easy, but if people are to consume more it must be made even easier. That is essentially the same situation in this game, but has to do with downloading mods instead of purchasing a product.

[rory_pamphilon]

Look, bottom line, here's what I'm saying.

Right now servers in the game don't even provide the option, people go download mods and install them on their own. If the feature would be supported and the server admins don't have the available bandwidth, they simply don't use it

I don't see any other argument that I can make...

Plus who is saying you have to host a download for a mod such as ACE (Or any other large). What if you want your server to provide downloads for some small gameplay mods you are enforcing, but you say to people "You need ACE".

Just because the option for allowing any size of file to be downloaded from a host, doesn't mean that the server admin SHOULD set it up that way.

If I'm honest this is the way I would see it unfolding if implemented. Allow the system to function for any size of mod, in a way, future proofing Arma 3. But I image it would mostly be used for smaller things...

Balancing of warfare games by including a few more modded vehicles for weaker side (not BIS's job to balance)

Inclusion of a blood mod in Pvp

The excellent fire & smoke mods

Etc

Small Things that make a big difference but are never really used online because the mod installation process you have to go through is too fiddly and long winded.

Aim at that and yet include the ability to download gigs if needed to cope with any possible future tech/bandwidth/cost possibilities.