Automatic Mod Downloading

[batto]

I think torrents are ideal solution. BIS and other reliable volunteers would just host trackers which doesn't require much bandwidth and game servers would act as seeds (with custom upload limits of course). Lobbies for Spring RTS (real-time strategy engine) already does it (SpringLobby and Zero-K). How should clients participate is a question. I suggest that clients should only seed mods that they're just using (playing) with configurable limits and possibility to opt-out from seeding.

Another thing are versions and updates. Downloading 3GB mod again for one-line fix isn't good. This could be solved by seeding also deltas. Yum package manager does it too (I've no idea how it deals with compression).

[GossamerSolid]

I wasn't aware of this feature of UE.
Anyhow, that would actually be a fair thing to do. That said, not sure how many would be willing to spend more money on the extra bandwidth when big mods/addons are concerned. Not saying it is not possible, but i for one have seen the KH monthly bill go up to 2x the normal fee for a couple of months when ACE2 was released, and we had the yoma dn link available.

There are quite a few GSPs out there that provide unmetered bandwidth/storage for a very low price (sometimes included with the purchase of a game server).

I'm pretty sure NFOServers.com has <$10/Month USD unmetered hosting.

I think torrents are ideal solution. BIS and other reliable volunteers would just host trackers which doesn't require much bandwidth and game servers would act as seeds (with custom upload limits of course). Lobbies for Spring RTS (real-time strategy engine) already does it (SpringLobby and Zero-K). How should clients participate is a question. I suggest that clients should only seed mods that they're just using (playing) with configurable limits and possibility to opt-out from seeding.

Another thing are versions and updates. Downloading 3GB mod again for one-line fix isn't good. This could be solved by seeding also deltas. Yum package manager does it too (I've no idea how it deals with compression).

I wouldn't want a torrent solution to be completely honest. MMOs/F2P games/Company of Heroes had peer to peer patching systems and I would get loads of problems (I'm looking at you company of heroes). I don't want to be sharing my home connection because a server host is too cheap themselves. If the host can't afford it, turn off server downloads.

[batto]

I wouldn't want a torrent solution to be completely honest. MMOs/F2P games/Company of Heroes had peer to peer patching systems and I would get loads of problems (I'm looking at you company of heroes). I don't want to be sharing my home connection because a server host is too cheap themselves.

Blame CoH, not torrents. With torrents and multiple servers there would be no problem with load balancing. As I've said there should be possibility to set speed limits and completely opt-out (or opt-in if most ppl are so egoist) on clients. To make it clear how I think clients should participate: If I'm connecting to a server with mod I don't have only the clients playing on THAT server should be my peers (+ game server with low upload limit, volunteer seed servers, ...). If someone other is playing same mod on other server he should not be my peer.

If the host can't afford it, turn off server downloads.

Oh c'mon...

[GossamerSolid]

Blame CoH, not torrents. With torrents and multiple servers there would be no problem with load balancing. As I've said there should be possibility to set speed limits and completely opt-out (or opt-in if most ppl are so egoist) on clients. To make it clear how I think clients should participate: If I'm connecting to a server with mod I don't have only the clients playing on THAT server should be my peers (+ game server with low upload limit, volunteer seed servers, ...). If someone other is playing same mod on other server he should not be my peer.

Oh c'mon...

You know a lot of people have bandwidth caps on their connections these days, why the hell should we have to give our bandwidth out to everybody because the server host isn't doing their job.

Server hosting isn't a right, it's a privledge... an expensive one.

[batto]

@GossamerSolid: Your point? Did you really read my post? That's supposed to be argument against torrents?

You know a lot of people have bandwidth caps on their connections these days

More people doesn't have and in future there will be none. It's 2012. And as I said you should have the possibility to opt-out (or opt-in) or set upload limits.

why the hell should we have to give our bandwidth out to everybody because the server host isn't doing their job.

Because you're connecting to server paid by volunteer so you will pay by your share by serving a tiny little bit from what you've downloaded to people that want to play with you. Why are you so egoist?

Server hosting isn't a right, it's a privledge... an expensive one.

Your point? So ONE web server sending 3GB file to 10 people wasting their upload bandwidth is more efficient?

[rory_pamphilon]

LlLet's explore the torrents idea a little as it's hardly been mentioned compared to a file server. I believe we all think a file server is a good idea yet there are concerns over who would pay for it. Il admit right now it's not my area of expertise so I can't provide an answer to that but this may be where torrents shine..

Let's say burried in your arma 3 options is an opt in tickbox with a big bandwidth (and possible associated costs) warning allowing you to seed your mods to anyone else in arma 3.

This would allow those with unlimited Internet connections to seed when not in an online game (would auto stop seeding when opening server browser so pings aren't effected). The advantage of this method is there would be no file server costs so file size becomes irrelevant (apart from waiting times).

On its own it may not be a suitable solution as it requires atleast one person to opt in and then be playing singleplayer or editing etc so for less popular mods it may take some time to download.

What if though, both methods could be used? In-game torrents for the large popular mods, ace, I44, day Z etc so nobody has to worry about forking out for the associated huge bandwidths involved. Yet direct file server links are utilised for smaller less popular mods. What do people think?

[batto]

On its own it may not be a suitable solution as it requires atleast one person to opt in and then be playing singleplayer or editing etc so for less popular mods it may take some time to download.

What if though, both methods could be used? In-game torrents for the large popular mods, ace, I44, day Z etc so nobody has to worry about forking out for the associated huge bandwidths involved. Yet direct file server links are utilised for smaller less popular mods. What do people think?

That's not how it should work. The clients acting as peers (and optionally seeds) would be just nice addition. But it's not necessary and it'll still be better than file servers. With multiple file servers you would have to come up with some load balancing method to pick best fileserver. That's the beginning of reinventing torrents. But it'll still be worse because you'll be downloading whole 3GB file from this server. With torrents you'll download parts of file from multiple locations... Well, I guess we all know how it works. Serving something from one torrent seed is same as serving it from file server (without upload limits). So if torrents will be used there will be no need for file servers (http downloads I guess).

Still I think clients should act as peers too with restriction described previously. It's just fair.

[rory_pamphilon]

Are you suggesting though that we use the game server as a seed? The whole point of this thread is to keep file traffic away from the game server so it doesn't lag. And also for all file sharing/downloading to cease once in a multiplayer game. The less unnecessary traffic the less lag there will be.

[batto]

Are you suggesting though that we use the game server as a seed? The whole point of this thread is to keep file traffic away from the game server so it doesn't lag. And also for all file sharing/downloading to cease once in a multiplayer game. The less unnecessary traffic the less lag there will be.

Why not? As a separate application. The game sends you a torrent with trackers. There could be hundreds of seeds, it doesn't matter where they are. Instead of expensive file server there could be 2 or more cheaper torrent seed machines too. Also don't forget that there'll be many game servers so the burden would not be only on one. There should also be some certificate store and torrents should be signed (maybe something like this) so if you download unkown mod the game will ask you "Do you trust this publishers? Forever?!?".

Let's say burried in your arma 3 options is an opt in tickbox with a big bandwidth (and possible associated costs) warning allowing you to seed your mods to anyone else in arma 3.

This is too intrusive IMO and per-server seeds suggestion isn't as easy as I thought.

[Foxhound]

Just a headsup mate

I'm pretty sure NFOServers.com has <$10/Month USD unmetered hosting.

If thats true I go rent myself a game server there for $150 and pay $10 for my 45+TB bandwidth I need with Armaholic. This is going to save me around 500 euro a month ........such an amazing deal, I am sure there is a catch so better read the terms of service first which I did

8GB max HD space usage, 1GB max memory usage, no peer-to-peer.............so I guess with a release like ACE, I44, CWR and a few others your soon up to 8GB.
And what about this:

files over 200MB in size are subject to a throttle of 50 k/s per connection when downloaded through HTTP. FTP upload and download rates are similarly throttled at 100 k/s.

Really, if file hosting would be so easy and cheap do you really think I would have needed to add so many ads on Armaholic?