View Poll Results: Is the retail games model in its death throws?

Voters
58. This poll is closed
  • I agree the future is digital download!

    37 63.79%
  • No the future is DVD consoles, Retail games outlets will never die!

    6 10.34%
  • On line consoles is the way to go!

    1 1.72%
  • The future is one game to rule them all!

    8 13.79%
  • It will all be replaced by some thing we have not seen yet!

    6 10.34%
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Thread: Death of Retail. No future for the High Street and the Mall?

  1. #21
    Sergeant Major Defunkt's Avatar
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    I have no idea if this is widely known or not but Valve actually hired the guy who devised the BitTorent protocol to work on Steam. I would guess it's not entirely dissimilar.

  2. #22
    Second Lieutenant mrcash2009's Avatar
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    Not only is it more convenient (see my previous post) its better for the environment too. No plastic (disks, boxes) no paper (manuals, cover art), and no production waste (to make all the aforementioned).

    Do we really need a disk and a box at the end of the day?
    Do you Really need to pay the same cost for less then? The green angle is still flawed becuase games still push for new PC equipment and tech, all the power used to run servers and PC's ... all the old kit being thrown away, you could go on and on with that one.

    The only time it will fully come to the only choice is when enough outlets move over to it and then the cost comes down (asking price without all the paper box and physical distribution overheads) take that off and charge for a data transfer bandwidth cost and then they might have something.

    Lets face it pirated games (sorry to bring this up) is exactly the same process minus your key information of what you really pay for, the data is simply a install folder of a few gigs on a server to grab to your hard disk ... just binary. My point is, nothing to do with support of pirating but pirating was digital downloading before the days of official ways to do it, they had no costs or profit to work with (which ties in with mr Torrent protocol himself). Im just saying that overheads (shipping, packaging, creation boxing and so on) and costs come into the retail price and VAT etc, but the cost of all digital games should at least be less than on the physical side to be realistic, your simply torrenting binary in a few gigs package to pay for the key to set it up.

    Thats why at the moment im reluctant to buy bran new games via digital download (as i said before I buy bran new physical copies) becuase they are same as physical price, so why not have the box and manual and things to look at read and store it in? Or are the green brigade going to pull out the al gore mantra and have me on that (I joke).

    Im all for the companies getting their money back and developers, plus server costs, but can it really be matched to the overheads of physical and justify the exact same asking price? Plus we all know about mark up costs, so I still dont see how they can be same as retail/physical.

    Plus digital download assumes internet connection access and enough bandwidth of the access, its still a case that many places and areas are not set for this for all manner of reasons. Then, you can also argue the costs you have to make for having the internet connection rather than having no cost for it and going out like the old days and getting a game in a shop and happily play it without any internet.

    As long as its an option next year I will want to get Arma3 physical copy as with every other that I have purchased. DLC or addons, digital download, old bargain games, digital download, thats my "work flow"
    Last edited by mrcash2009; Jun 16 2011 at 10:00.

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  3. #23
    Major DM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcash2009 View Post
    Do you Really need to pay the same cost for less then?
    No, thats why I expand on the theroy (and its failings) in the rest of my post

    As for the green thing, indeed, (and I couldnt really care). But less plastic use is always good...
    Quote Originally Posted by ***LeGeNDK1LLER*** View Post
    well you are 1 of the greatest examples that pressing the reply button doesn't mean necessarily answering.

  4. #24
    Second Lieutenant mrcash2009's Avatar
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    I know mate, I was banging the point home that was all hehe

    But less plastic use is always good...
    Does that mean we should ban boy band MP3 downloads?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcash2009 View Post
    The green angle is still flawed becuase games still push for new PC equipment and tech, all the power used to run servers and PC's ... all the old kit being thrown away, you could go on and on with that one.
    Perfect solution fallacy. Reducing unnecessary waste may not lower the energy consumption of our computers (which would exist regardless), reverse global warming, fix the ozone layer and suck you off after a hard days work, but it will still help. That's what counts.

    As for the whole thing about the asking price being the same, I agree that's certainly something that needs to change. The question is, how much? After all, when you buy a game you're not just paying for a plastic box, a leaflet and a few discs; the product you are purchasing is the game itself, which makes up the bulk of the actual value. It could even be argued that your copy of the game is worth the whole 50€ and that the packaging and disc were provided to you for free, simply as a medium for you to install it. By that reasoning, a digital copy of the game that comes with a digital handbook would have the same intrinsic value, merely provided on a different medium.

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  6. #26
    Second Lieutenant mrcash2009's Avatar
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    Perfect solution fallacy.
    There is none, maybe there doesn't need to be, I can think a of a million things before box and packaging of games to hit first, but that's a green debate and that's always messy

    the product you are purchasing is the game itself, which makes up the bulk of the actual value.
    Well, you have binary data on a storage medium, so Id say the burn cost for the copy you have on the CDR (pressing plant), then the box and packaging (the company doing it) .. then the print cost for manual and leaflets/key info etc. Then the distribution / transit & delivery etc (fuel costs and overheads of those who they have a contract with).

    Take all that, add that into the cost, then the cost for the publisher cut & then developers and so on, then VAT and so on. So I dont think the product as the game itself (the binary data) is the cost its all the mark up and additions until it gets to you.

    So for digital you have most of that ditched, you have the binary data .. transfer to server from publisher or whoever signs it off to be passed after gold, the distribution of the data on servers (movement of binary on HDisks), the bandwidth and tech and font end for the end user and general upkeep network management mainly. So then your paying to transfer the same binary package of data from the same source per person (mirrored of course) as opposed to 1 copy on a DVDR in multiples physical.

    Effectively you sticking up 1 DVDR and everyone takes a copy local, but you pay for the key.

    So, I cant still see how a full retail price for digital is justified, id say 20 percent off at least. I see bargains on digital all the time, 20 percent of 15 / 20 taken off, and im thinking .. well, that's just playing with numbers and the same digital binary is in the same place, doing the same thing, so why isn't it that price anyway? Kind of thing.

    I cant say exactly how much to charge, im not an accountant and cant follow the money trail, but im damn sure once you have the data working, you cover your bandwidth and staff costs to simply allow people to grab binary in chunks just like a torrent, and you charge same as physical ... something isn't quite right.

    And its that which makes me buy physical until I really have no choice at all but to move to digital when that time comes. So far Ive payed no more than £17 for digital based on price drops due to older games from 2009, but thats as far as ive gone at the moment.

    MP3's an music dont charge as much as they do retail, I know thats a little different but there must be at least "some" distinction in pricing between the two they both have glaringly different processes involved. Unless of course bandwidth and server upkeep somehow meets the exact same overhead as all the processes physical has combined.
    Last edited by mrcash2009; Jun 16 2011 at 15:26.

  7. #27
    Price is set by demand, not necessarily the cost to produce/distribute something. Basic economics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armored_Sheep View Post
    I like to call Arma a sandbox game that works pretty much like LEGO - you buy it not just because you want to have a nice car from the main picture on its box, do you?

  8. #28
    Second Lieutenant mrcash2009's Avatar
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    Theres allot of demand for shit these days then eh

    Priced on hype and marketing schemes, I think that's more the projected demand price-tag from release. Saying that high demand for digital cant effect price because yet again its only bandwidth hit your talking. Demand in physical world shipping it as fast as possible to re stock is different.

    So again, I still cant see it right even taking that into consideration.

    EDIT: just to add im no expert with this and maybe assuming some things, also I know im probably simplifying things and could be wrong in places, just that at the moment as I see it I cant quite see the justification for the same price tag.
    Last edited by mrcash2009; Jun 16 2011 at 22:05.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcash2009 View Post
    Theres allot of demand for shit these days then eh

    Priced on hype and marketing schemes, I think that's more the projected demand price-tag from release. Saying that high demand for digital cant effect price because yet again its only bandwidth hit your talking. Demand in physical world shipping it as fast as possible to re stock is different.

    So again, I still cant see it right even taking that into consideration.

    EDIT: just to add im no expert with this and maybe assuming some things, also I know im probably simplifying things and could be wrong in places, just that at the moment as I see it I cant quite see the justification for the same price tag.
    The point is, as long as people are willing to pay full price for digital distribution, that's what they'll charge.

    IMO it's not really a big deal. You pay for the game, not the media it's printed on/distributed through. And considering the frequency (and amount) at which things go on sale on Steam and the other digital distributors, I usually end up paying much less than buying a hardcopy (and spend nothing for shipping).
    Last edited by Big Dawg KS; Jun 16 2011 at 22:30.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by froggyluv View Post
    Pretty rare for me to actually encounter another PC Gamer and when it happens, we have a FreeMason like nod of one another.

    Rarer still is meeting an actual Arma or Mount&Blade player.

    "Ahh, your a gamer eh, ever heard of Arma 2?"

    *shrugs* "Nah, is it good? Hey, you ever hear of COD 4?"
    We should start wearing t-shits of M&B/Warband faction banners to identify each other. Of course depending how dedicated said gamers are....being seen with the wrong banner on someone could lead to a nerdy slap fight.
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