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Death of Retail. No future for the High Street and the Mall?

Is the retail games model in its death throws?  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the retail games model in its death throws?

    • I agree the future is digital download!
      37
    • No the future is DVD consoles, Retail games outlets will never die!
      6
    • On line consoles is the way to go!
      1
    • The future is one game to rule them all!
      8
    • It will all be replaced by some thing we have not seen yet!
      6


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Perfect solution fallacy.
There is none, maybe there doesn't need to be, I can think a of a million things before box and packaging of games to hit first, but that's a green debate and that's always messy :)
the product you are purchasing is the game itself, which makes up the bulk of the actual value.
Well, you have binary data on a storage medium, so Id say the burn cost for the copy you have on the CDR (pressing plant), then the box and packaging (the company doing it) .. then the print cost for manual and leaflets/key info etc. Then the distribution / transit & delivery etc (fuel costs and overheads of those who they have a contract with).

Take all that, add that into the cost, then the cost for the publisher cut & then developers and so on, then VAT and so on. So I dont think the product as the game itself (the binary data) is the cost its all the mark up and additions until it gets to you.

So for digital you have most of that ditched, you have the binary data .. transfer to server from publisher or whoever signs it off to be passed after gold, the distribution of the data on servers (movement of binary on HDisks), the bandwidth and tech and font end for the end user and general upkeep network management mainly. So then your paying to transfer the same binary package of data from the same source per person (mirrored of course) as opposed to 1 copy on a DVDR in multiples physical.

Effectively you sticking up 1 DVDR and everyone takes a copy local, but you pay for the key.

So, I cant still see how a full retail price for digital is justified, id say 20 percent off at least. I see bargains on digital all the time, 20 percent of 15 / 20 taken off, and im thinking .. well, that's just playing with numbers and the same digital binary is in the same place, doing the same thing, so why isn't it that price anyway? Kind of thing.

I cant say exactly how much to charge, im not an accountant and cant follow the money trail, but im damn sure once you have the data working, you cover your bandwidth and staff costs to simply allow people to grab binary in chunks just like a torrent, and you charge same as physical ... something isn't quite right.

And its that which makes me buy physical until I really have no choice at all but to move to digital when that time comes. So far Ive payed no more than £17 for digital based on price drops due to older games from 2009, but thats as far as ive gone at the moment.

MP3's an music dont charge as much as they do retail, I know thats a little different but there must be at least "some" distinction in pricing between the two they both have glaringly different processes involved. Unless of course bandwidth and server upkeep somehow meets the exact same overhead as all the processes physical has combined.

Edited by mrcash2009

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Price is set by demand, not necessarily the cost to produce/distribute something. Basic economics.

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Theres allot of demand for shit these days then eh :)

Priced on hype and marketing schemes, I think that's more the projected demand price-tag from release. Saying that high demand for digital cant effect price because yet again its only bandwidth hit your talking. Demand in physical world shipping it as fast as possible to re stock is different.

So again, I still cant see it right even taking that into consideration.

EDIT: just to add im no expert with this and maybe assuming some things, also I know im probably simplifying things and could be wrong in places, just that at the moment as I see it I cant quite see the justification for the same price tag.

Edited by mrcash2009

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Theres allot of demand for shit these days then eh :)

Priced on hype and marketing schemes, I think that's more the projected demand price-tag from release. Saying that high demand for digital cant effect price because yet again its only bandwidth hit your talking. Demand in physical world shipping it as fast as possible to re stock is different.

So again, I still cant see it right even taking that into consideration.

EDIT: just to add im no expert with this and maybe assuming some things, also I know im probably simplifying things and could be wrong in places, just that at the moment as I see it I cant quite see the justification for the same price tag.

The point is, as long as people are willing to pay full price for digital distribution, that's what they'll charge.

IMO it's not really a big deal. You pay for the game, not the media it's printed on/distributed through. And considering the frequency (and amount) at which things go on sale on Steam and the other digital distributors, I usually end up paying much less than buying a hardcopy (and spend nothing for shipping).

Edited by Big Dawg KS

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Pretty rare for me to actually encounter another PC Gamer and when it happens, we have a FreeMason like nod of one another.

Rarer still is meeting an actual Arma or Mount&Blade player.

"Ahh, your a gamer eh, ever heard of Arma 2?"

*shrugs* "Nah, is it good? Hey, you ever hear of COD 4?"

We should start wearing t-shits of M&B/Warband faction banners to identify each other. Of course depending how dedicated said gamers are....being seen with the wrong banner on someone could lead to a nerdy slap fight.

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We should start wearing t-shits of M&B/Warband faction banners to identify each other. Of course depending how dedicated said gamers are....being seen with the wrong banner on someone could lead to a nerdy slap fight.

Hehe, besides I'd be worried about those of us that are single being afflicted with a total permanance of state.

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i depend on the store first. but it may depend on distance to the store, if they're young and can't drive (your audience), maybe they have to depend on someone else. this is for military enthusiasts and not average gamers either way.

Edited by BronzeEagle

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IMO it's not really a big deal. You pay for the game, not the media it's printed on/distributed through.

With digital download you pay for a license to use the game that cannot be transferred to another party. That's a significant downgrade compared to physical media that doesn't get bound to an account.

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With digital download you pay for a license to use the game that cannot be transferred to another party. That's a significant downgrade compared to physical media that doesn't get bound to an account.

Indeed, though not with all digital versions, Sprocket is perfect, digital convenience but stand-alone and can be mixed and matched with retail versions. I only buy on Steam if there's a significant price advantage though sadly more and more retail titles seem to require association with a Steam account. For a full price game I'd probably create a new account so I can resell or (more likely) lend to a friend.

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That's a significant downgrade compared to physical media that doesn't get bound to an account.

That's subjective. IMO I don't give a shit about transfering anything (I'm not a cheap ass), and I'd prefer to have my games bound to an account where I can access them anywhere.

---------- Post added at 01:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------

i depend on the store first. but it may depend on distance to the store, if they're young and can't drive (your audience), maybe they have to depend on someone else. this is for military enthusiasts and not average gamers either way.

Another thing, digital distribution saves gas. ;)

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That's subjective. IMO I don't give a shit about transfering anything (I'm not a cheap ass), and I'd prefer to have my games bound to an account where I can access them anywhere.

Wanting to own something in the traditional fashion that affords you the right to then sell, loan or give it away doesn't make you a cheap-ass. Willingly giving up those rights on many $50 purchases just makes you a lamb to the slaughter and Bobby Kotick's bitch.

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No, thats why I expand on the theroy (and its failings) in the rest of my post ;)

As for the green thing, indeed, (and I couldnt really care). But less plastic use is always good...

There won't be less plastic. Faster internet lines, more powerful servers and other hardware, more upgrades of hardware (and throwing away obsolete)...

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Wanting to own something in the traditional fashion that affords you the right to then sell, loan or give it away doesn't make you a cheap-ass. Willingly giving up those rights on many $50 purchases just makes you a lamb to the slaughter and Bobby Kotick's bitch.

Yeah, that's the one thing I dislike about Steam. There is no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible to transfer games between accounts - it would simply be bad business for them, I guess.

Though, come to think of it, I don't see why they don't try to make some money off of a possible second hand market. This idea just came into my head, so I haven't really thought it through, but what if Valve created a kind of "user marketplace" on Steam, where players could put games from their library on sale for other Steam users. Steam would then collect a brokers fee of, say, 5% on every "second hand" purchase.

I guess there are a million and one reasons for them not to do this, but from a customers perspective I think it would be a cool idea.

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It started with ArmA2, I wanted to have it day 1 and Germany had it first so I decided to download it. I've bought every game online for myself since, except for OA because the boxed version cost about half of what was online.

The good thing is that they dont get scratched :D but the downside is if your email adress gets ahcked you might be in trouble.

Edited by ziiip

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Although i voted for "I agree the future is digital download!" i still dislike the idea. I even still miss the old game packages (cardboard boxes, anyone remember?).

Recently i had 2 books in my hands which came with a game: DID's F-22 Air Dominance Fighter. One was a manual, explaining all aspects of the game on 180 pages (a real book, the older may remember what a "book" is ;) ). And a additional book, made in conjunction with the World Air Power Journal, presenting all (known at this time) facts about the F-22 including a lot of Photos and schematics and also about other planes and choppers of all sort. This book also has 180+ pages.

What do you get these days? A booklet with maybe a dozen pages and a PDF on the disc (if you're lucky).

At the end, you get ever less while paying more and more.

So as long as ever possible, i will always try to get my hands on a hardcopy. I wasn't pretty happy when i heard the first time about DLC's and although i've bought BAF and PMC through Sprocket, i'm still looking to get my hands on a retail version of RFT.

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Myke;1957906']Although i voted for "I agree the future is digital download!" i still dislike the idea. I even still miss the old game packages (cardboard boxes' date=' anyone remember?).

Recently i had 2 books in my hands which came with a game: DID's F-22 Air Dominance Fighter. One was a manual, explaining all aspects of the game on 180 pages (a real book, the older may remember what a "book" is ;) ). And a additional book, made in conjunction with the World Air Power Journal, presenting all (known at this time) facts about the F-22 including a lot of Photos and schematics and also about other planes and choppers of all sort. This book also has 180+ pages.

What do you get these days? A booklet with maybe a dozen pages and a PDF on the disc (if you're lucky).

At the end, you get ever less while paying more and more.

So as long as ever possible, i will always try to get my hands on a hardcopy. I wasn't pretty happy when i heard the first time about DLC's and although i've bought BAF and PMC through Sprocket, i'm still looking to get my hands on a retail version of RFT.[/quote']

"cardboard boxes", exacly. And about manuals, I often get just one paper listing default controls one page and install manual on the other. Its pathetic.

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Myke;1957906']

At the end' date=' you get ever less while paying more and more.[/quote']

Development costs for games has increased so much since those days, so in a sense perhaps you are getting less, but don't forget it's higher quality (at least technologically).

---------- Post added at 02:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

Yeah, that's the one thing I dislike about Steam. There is no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible to transfer games between accounts - it would simply be bad business for them, I guess.

Probably because (like anyting good in life) people would exploit it vigorously. There are a select few people in the world who will always ruin things for the rest of us. It's simply what they do.

It's no biggie though since, like I said, Steam has so many deals that most of the time you can get something for dirt cheap when you aren't sure if you'd like it (if you're patient).

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BD ... do you work for Steam?:p

Development costs for games has increased so much since those days, so in a sense perhaps you are getting less, but don't forget it's higher quality (at least technologically)

That being the case then retail should be even more expensive than digital, but they dont raise the price to cover that its relatively the same numbers, so I still dont see why digital should be the "same" price as physical.

To me its just a mind game of convenience. If someone 15 or more years ago said "well, you will be able to get games just through the internet, you wont have anything to hold or look at and it will cut lots of costs than getting it to you through a shop, but it will cost the same as getting it from a shop, plus the cost of being on the internet to get it anyway. Also you will be paying for it to be tied to one account so you cant re sell it or anything" .. I wonder what there face would look like.

I dont think people really think it through of how much a rip things will become based on that.

Steam has so many deals that most of the time you can get something for dirt cheap when you aren't sure if you'd like it (if you're patient).
So does Game.co.uk downloads which I mentioned earlier, and that isn't tied to some bubble you cant escape and additional background tasks and bloat ware.

The pattern is, Steam is the way, which is again what I was wary of about digital only land, when its dominated by a few with lots of hoop jumping and limitations that isn't a time to celebrate in my eyes. As long as there is choices other than the Steam model and its spread nicely with lots of price differences, but .... (for me) not the exact price as physical. I will happily be patient and wait for over a year or more for patches and updates and mods to come and let the price drop to a more realistic level and wont buy bran new digital if it became digital only and at the same as physical price-tag.

The other way to look at it is this, if digital is saying that's the price even though you know costs have been cut than physical way to get it to you just how much is profit? Im happy to support, but im always wary of making rich people richer.

Edited by mrcash2009

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Steam is particularly insidious in that even if you buy games from other online retail outlets, they might still have to be activated on steam- in that sense Steam is less a service for games and more a form of DRM (although Steam's 'DRM' has of course also been broken). I recently bought Fallout: New Vegas from D2D, and only found out as I was installing it that it needed Steam. Same thing for Dawn of War II. It's not terribly annoying as I do use Steam a lot, and you often can't beat their deals (especially around holiday times), but I can imagine it being very very annoying indeed for anyone who prefers NOT to use services like Steam.

OT: Digital distribution is the way of the future. Just don't allow any one store a monopoly, and things should be going ever into a golden and happy tomorrow!

Regards,

Wolfrug

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Those things you mention are what I mention a few pages back, nice little deals with publishers sucked into buddying up with a narrow field of an online distribute so they can shove their badge on everything to reel you in pretty much without choice.

Its true though, that Steam are a "perpetual DRM with a shop front".

Thats where the digital only creepy side comes in, I dont like that one bit.

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That being the case then retail should be even more expensive than digital, but they dont raise the price to cover that its relatively the same numbers, so I still dont see why digital should be the "same" price as physical.

Like I said it's all about demand. Most people (yes, most people are fine with Steam) will pay full price for a downloadable game, and the distributors will charge whatever people will pay. It has nothing to do with the cost, it's just economics.

That said, the amount they can offer for that price is probably not the same as it was years ago, since it costs much more to develop games. And they probably can't raise the prices because of the same reason: demand (not as many would buy).

Its true though, that Steam are a "perpetual DRM with a shop front".

Steamworks is a DRM, Steam is not. Learn the difference. Steamworks as a DRM is IMO a much better approach to DRM than something that limits your installation.

BD ... do you work for Steam?

No, but I'm not a brainless idiot who thinks Steam is the devil because of made up horror stories from Steam bashers. :rolleyes: I have facts and more importantly I have my own reasons to like Steam. I know what the difference is between Steam and Steamworks, while it appears 90% of the Steam haters don't. I also understand fully the limitations of Steam games, but it doesn't bother me one bit. It just makes me angry when people hate things because they are uninformed or because they have no desire to attempt to understand them. :butbut:

Edited by Big Dawg KS

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Although i do believe the future is a digital download, due to it being easier to click and play rather than go to the shop, but personaly i like having the dvd in its box. However saw that a big company like EA in the uk are offering exclusive ingame stuff to people which go to the store and buy the dvd disc which kind of tells me there's still life left yet, which is good, as i said i like the box in hand, but dont get me wrong im sure over the past few months iv bought most of my games on steam.

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Myke;1957906']Although i voted for "I agree the future is digital download!" i still dislike the idea. I even still miss the old game packages (cardboard boxes' date=' anyone remember?).

Recently i had 2 books in my hands which came with a game: DID's F-22 Air Dominance Fighter. One was a manual, explaining all aspects of the game on 180 pages (a real book, the older may remember what a "book" is ;) ). And a additional book, made in conjunction with the World Air Power Journal, presenting all (known at this time) facts about the F-22 including a lot of Photos and schematics and also about other planes and choppers of all sort. This book also has 180+ pages.

What do you get these days? A booklet with maybe a dozen pages and a PDF on the disc (if you're lucky).

At the end, you get ever less while paying more and more.

So as long as ever possible, i will always try to get my hands on a hardcopy. I wasn't pretty happy when i heard the first time about DLC's and although i've bought BAF and PMC through Sprocket, i'm still looking to get my hands on a retail version of RFT.[/quote']

I agree with Myke. And yes, I am older (63 pushing 64). All this digital download stuff is well and good. BUT, as someone mentioned ealier, it's only good if you got the download capacity.

American ranks number nine (9) in the worlds Broadband capabilities. Korea is at the top, I believe. So even though I'm fairly happy with my up/dl speeds. To become completly digital (which I appose) you have to have the infastructure in place to use this.

All the arguments, for the most part, in this thread are good and valid. And most of the pro digital arguments are from the younger members. But I still like the idea that I can install a game and play a game without a broadband connection. Especially when it's a single player game.

Yes we of this thought are a dieing breed. Or rather WE are being transposed by a newer mindset. I will do what is required to enjoy my chosen entertainment, but I will most likely be draggin my feet all the way.

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like EA in the uk are offering exclusive ingame stuff to people which go to the store and buy the dvd disc.

Sort of makes me think of the "exclusive" GameStop content... man do I hate that shit. But I hate most forms of marketing...

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 AM ----------

it's only good if you got the download capacity.

American ranks number nine (9) in the worlds Broadband capabilities. Korea is at the top, I believe. So even though I'm fairly happy with my up/dl speeds. To become completly digital (which I appose) you have to have the infastructure in place to use this.

No doubt however that this infastructure will only expand in the future. Hell I'm skeptical that anything in the near future will ever really be offline.

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I don't think there is enough competition in the digital download marketplace yet for PC games.

You still have to pay up to double what you pay for buying the disc.

Plus, since they have no advertising power in the same way as a shop shelf does... you might as well publish it digitally yourself as use GamersGate, or Sprocket or something. Using them is just giving away profit to other people pointlessly.

Online retailers however do not have to be digital services. I buy discs online from companies such as Play or Amazon.

The market for consoles I think will remain strong. People want games that are user friendly. There is a big big market for this.

Not just user friendly to play, but also user friendly to buy.

Just walk into the shop and hand over some notes and I have a present for little Billy.

As opposed to learning how to use a PC, registering an account. Validating an account. Entering my credit card details.... downloading and installing a game...

When I give some one a present, I want to place it in their hands. Gift wrapped so that they can open it. Not send them a link by email. That just doesn't cut it.

If I am to go through all the palava of Steam for example.... downloading all that crap and all the rest...having to run a second party software to get the game to run.... I might as well just pirate it from a torrent. Why pay for a service that is worse than what you get for free?

Edited by Baff1

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