equal damage or effect from damage on east and west tanks

[NkEnNy]

You have to excuse me for laughing, but do you really think a website with the prefix .ru might be a wholly impartial source of information about the performance of Russian military equipment?

And Wiki, the Dagestan war thing, not a lot mentioned there about the T-90 mate.

Yes this is true. In fact russians are all liars and have for years been deceiving the west! Detailed picture analysis has proven that Russian tanks are in fact made of stacked cardboard and powered only by cheap Italian FIAT car engines. Yesterday when I was wanking to a picture of a M1 Abrams tank it all came to me. Russia doesn't actually exist! Its all a lie created by the filthy Euros to have expensive superior American military forces deployed there to protect them from ehh err Germany! yes Germany!

All this years you've been tricked! There never was an ironcurtain nor a humongous industrial, military, and political coalition in the east. Its all tent camps and horses. I'd say this qualifies as proof of a massive cover up and I'd NEVER been able to figure it out! Its all thanks to you Ollie1983.

-k

[Max Power]

Yesterday when I was wanking to a picture of a M1 Abrams tank it all came to me.

Hahaha. I bet.

[Beagle]

Yesterday when I was wanking to a picture of a M1 Abrams tank it all came to me.

Thats nothing, I'ven seen guys wanking, pissing and vomiting INSIDE of a Leopard II.

[Ollie1983]

You do have some peculiar views mate.

There is a simple reason why Western designers had to to be very specific and careful with their claims about their products, not least because their competitors (IE other western companies) were trying to sell similar equipment and any illegitimate claim would be torn to pieces very quickly, which looks bad to your customers when you are trying to sell them multibillion dollar defence projects....

I'm going to have to admit I had a great laugh at your .RU website and your claims it was as equally valid in subject matter and evidence when compared to Janes- an international organisaton of certified experts who use verified data and sources. Unlike some Soviet fanboi website written by a collection of guys all dreaming of the resurgence of the soviet union...

[DM]

There is a simple reason why Western designers had to to be very specific and careful with their claims about their products, not least because their competitors (IE other western companies) were trying to sell similar equipment and any illegitimate claim would be torn to pieces very quickly

Oh how naïve you are...


The "west" is full of just as much bullshit as the "east" when it comes to mil-specs...

[NkEnNy]

There is a simple reason why Western designers had to to be very specific and careful with their claims about their products, not least because their competitors (IE other western companies) were trying to sell similar equipment and any illegitimate claim would be torn to pieces very quickly, which looks bad to your customers when you are trying to sell them multibillion dollar defence projects....

Damn straight.

If its one thing western capitalism does get right its that the BEST product wins all the time. I mean it always does what it says on the box, particularly when it comes to modern military equipment. How else could they sell it?

In the Soviet Union equipment specifications, production facilities and executive design decisions all came down to politicians, their hordes of lying cronies and the Generals/Admirals currently in favour. No wonder all they did was crap!

Man you've really made me see things clearer Ollie.

-k

[maturin]

Damn straight.

If its one thing western capitalism does get right its that the BEST product wins all the time. I mean it always does what it says on the box, particularly when it comes to modern military equipment. How else could they sell it?

In the Soviet Union equipment specifications, production facilities and executive design decisions all came down to politicians, their hordes of lying cronies and the Generals/Admirals currently in favour. No wonder all they did was crap!

Man you've really made me see things clearer Ollie.

-k

Are you being sarcastic, or do you just not know anything about the corruption and waste of U.S. military acquisitions.

Capitalism my ass.

[Beagle]

Oh how naïve you are...


The "west" is full of just as much bullshit as the "east" when it comes to mil-specs...

Definately...I have worked for such a company, in one incident they knew that a APC prototype had a bad cooling problem for the electronics...so they kept it cool and showed in in acton only for 30 minutes to army officers on a inspection...because the electronics blackout never happened before 40 minutes. I did work in production line and believe me...ive seen in lot of shoddy work done by badly trained and badly payed workers happening in the defense industries.
he western industries are about to mimic china in lots of aspects to sage costs and maximize profit, defense industry is not excluded in this strategy.

The numbers given in the glossy brochures are always taken under optimum conditions...every servicemen knows that the capabilities under field conditiosn are rarly aanywhere near the "official" statements, no matter if its a rifle or a Guided missile System or a thermal observation system.

Life it not so simplyfied as games tend to be...a bit to much oil or grease on your Optics may spoil the whole performance and sometimes a damned broken knob takes you technically out of action.

Have a closer look!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icJOjKwn_7Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CTad...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axk76...eature=related

[DreDay]

... Janes- an international organisaton of certified experts who use verified data and sources.

Janes Information Group is a publisher from UK that prints out defense reports based on the publicly available information. Their data is far from universally verified and no one certifies their "experts". They are prone to biases and misinformation just like everyone else. Their data is far from verified and they are only as good as their sources (which might include that same Russian website that you are so fired up against).

Peace,
DreDay

[Ollie1983]

Janes Information Group is a publisher from UK that prints out defense reports based on the publicly available information. Their data is far from universally verified and no one certifies their "experts". They are prone to biases and misinformation just like everyone else. Their data is far from verified and they are only as good as their sources (which might include that same Russian website that you are so fired up against).

Peace,
DreDay

Errr, all their data and intelligence is open source. The very fact they have been at their game and are respected internationally and in many industry circles, I think, makes them 'experts' in my understanding of the term. Perhaps you have data to suggest the contrary, though. please do share it.

Again, apparently western manufacturers are all corrupt and produce utterly crap designs and are forced to fabricate performance reports. That being the case, one does wonder why foreign powers spend so much money with them...

Corruption and deceit was basically a way of live in the Soviet union. Such was their fear of the West. It would appear that even non-FSU residents are prepared to accept their claims. Thank heavens Beagle is not responsible for defence procurement.