Modular approach? Better vehicle simulation!

[SCAJolly]

I suggest BIS start working on Arma3. With it, a new engine. The current one has met many of its limitations (in the eyes of this scrub), most ghastly perhaps the physics handling and collision detection.

In short, a new engine is needed to do away with some of the most glaring descrepancies between real life and Arma - or better, between other simulations and Arma. Try turning a car, dropping a bomb or doing anything else in a vehicle - those things need new algorithms.

I think Arma3 could become not just an infantry simulator, but a military simulator. Right now, Arma2 excels as a simulator for individual soldiers. With a bit of scripting and some modifications, the community has polished the gem even further. The desire is there to keep expanding on this functionality. Unfortunately, I think BIS do not perceive they need a new engine, if they are to provide improved infantry simulation.

What is severely lacking is the will to simulate vehicles. Here is a good rationale, I feel, to promote the need for a new engine. The evidence for this lack of desire is apparent whenever you sit in the Warrior's driver seat, or occupy any number of other vehicles. Most subtly, perhaps, with the moon-like gravity for bombs from aircraft. Armoured units, part to do with the AI, will drive back and forth and turn around like impatient six-year olds.
I argue, however, that to simulate these different methods of warfare demands a new approach. These are not - I suspect - commensurable paradigms unless one runs a supercomputer. Once you're in a ground vehicle, you must be presented with another type of interface than when in an aircraft - and this is separate from the infantry simulation.

A modular approach may therefore be simpler - although I unfortunately don't know jack about making games, so I can't say.
Such an approach would have the game support different manners of handling within vehicles than outside. Can you imagine if we could start our jet's engines like in Allied Force: Falcon 4, use autopilots, adhere to 'real physics', drag calculations, speed profiles, stalling etc? Or similarly in Apaches (collective!) and in Abrams tanks, rev the engine - use GEARS? Or just have a more realistic interface than sighting and looking at... nothing. A helicopter can taxi by adjusting its main rotor; an Abrams does not have 1,650 hitpoints. It's time to leave the compromise of the vehicles behind, and take on a greater challenge. I think this endeavour could produce the highest yield to the developers.

If Arma3 could incorporate enough elements of realism from the worlds of armoured vehicles, helicopters and airplanes, can you imagine the reviews? That would be as groundbreaking as what was launched in 2001. Militaries should desire to use it for training, and Bohemia would gain the absolutely massive audience that is the flight sim/combat flight sim community.

If 'modularity' helps in this regard, I don't know. But it doesn't seem to me as if spit-polishing today's game will see Bohemia into the future.



(btw, this is not for "our Next Generation Game ArmA 2 & the standalone expansion Operation Arrowhead" - it's for a new game. I didn't see any such suggestion-forum, so you'll forgive me if I missed a more appropriate forum!)

[Sickboy]

Simple vehicle simulation is a design choice, not an 'engine problem'.
You don't need a new engine for better vehicle simulation, instead, they need to want better vehicle simulation first, and then implement it.

Switching engines or creating new engine, especially when it has to be as versatile as the arma series, is not a small challenge.
And considering real virtuality actually performs pretty good for the open world and all else that defines the arma series, I wouldn't know why they should switch.
If big changes would be required, backwards compatibility would perhaps need to be (partially) sacrified, but still no need for a new engine.

Past years plenty of people suggested e.g switching to CryEngine - yet they serve two very different purposes, aside from the fact that you don't just switch overnight.

[metalcraze]

The dude just thinks that Engine is something static and unchangeable, that appears out of the vacuum overnight and when you switch to a new Engine that also appears overnight everything suddenly changes in the way the dude wants.

Why does it always like that in every "omg I don't like X in your game, please use a new engine" thread?

[MadDogX]

At one point I also fell into the trap of thinking that a potential sequel to Arma2 would need a whole new engine, but looking at what BIS have done since the games initial release, I think that conclusion is completely wrong. With the exception of a few features that would require major overhauls of core game code (for example loading and unloading of addons at runtime), many - perhaps most - of the feature/improvement requests put forward by the community would concievably be doable in a reasonable time frame, within the engine we have now. If the devs worked on one of those features to the exclusion of all else, that is.

The thing is: there are thousands of suggestions for improvements floating around, and BIS is a comparatively small company. So priorities need to be set. Suma and other devs have frequently stated that they decide which features and fixes to work on based partially on demand for it in the community at large, but mostly on the cost/benefit ratio.

So if they really felt the need for new vehicle or aircraft simulation physics, they would probably work to implement them. But that would require a large portion of the community to be dissatisfied with those things, not just a vocal minority who happen to have a special interest in perfect vehicle or aircraft handling.

Switching to a completely new engine isn't going to make things like that happen any faster. Quite the opposite.

[Zipper5]

I suggest BIS start working on Arma3.

In the broad scheme of things, don't you think that's rather soon? It was 5 years between OFP and Armed Assault. 3 years between Armed Assault and Arma 2. It's been much less than a year since Operation Arrowhead launched.

I'm happy sticking to Arma 2 for as long as BIS continue to patch it and release content for it.

[Primarch]

In the broad scheme of things, don't you think that's rather soon? It was 5 years between OFP and Armed Assault. 3 years between Armed Assault and Arma 2. It's been much less than a year since Operation Arrowhead launched.

I'm happy sticking to Arma 2 for as long as BIS continue to patch it and release content for it.

If you give me something that is as much of an improvement as arma 2 is from Armed Assault, I can wait for those 3 years. BIS didn't make the game in the release day... If they are going to do arma 3 with a new engine I'd suggest BIS to start working on it now so they won't have to patch it so much, so they can release DLC which would make BIS more money.

[wolfbite]

Yeah I'd rather they just averhaul each vehicle class at a time with dlc.... The Driving does need a major overhaul I feel. I can deal with planes andchoppers atm.... Although I want them to get a major overhaul....

But I never drive cars in this asdrivings absoloutely shite...
If the cars were like GTA handling I would literally shit a bat of happiness

[MadDogX]

Yeah I'd rather they just averhaul each vehicle class at a time with dlc...

Actually, that's quite an interesting DLC idea. A succession of patches introducing improved handling and a few nifty features for a certain vehicle class, each coming with a DLC for corresponding content. I'm not a huge vehicle fanatic, but that does sound cool.

Not sure how high the community demand for better vehicle handling really is though. After all, not everyone plays this game for the flying, and the driving is... adequate, I would say. If BIS wanted to create a fighter plane DLC for example, I think they would first have to gauge how many people would actually buy it, just to be sure it would make any sense at all.

[wolfbite]

If BIS made an aircraft DLC that seriously overhauled Flying mechanics I would buy a ticket to Egypt kick the shit out of the government and the opposition singlehandedly become Presidente ( It has a good ring to it) and Rename it Bohemiatopia......

[Mr. Charles]

They worked on Game2 which has become ArmA2 for more than 3 years...