Community driven Bug&Issue Tracker (CIT) for ARMA 2: Operation Arrowhead and ARMA 2

[Dwarden]

i can't stress enough the importance of properly well written description in report
of problem, issue, incident, bug, crash or any other hick-up You have with our game(s)

not to mention all the files needed for complete reports are hosted as part of such report at same place

one of best ways to get things fixed is usage of public bug tracking system

so let me re-introduce CIT (Community Issue Tracker)

to understood how important role is played by such bug tracking solution
please see ROADMAP - future, present and history tracking here (each version vs reports)
http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/r...=4&completed=1

url to create new ticket
http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/issues/new



detailed help
http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/wiki
which e.g. leads to instructions about crash files (where find them, how compress and upload and so on)
http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/wiki/Attachments

and best is this system is not useful just for bug tracking but can be used to track suggestions / wishes / feature requests from users / community
http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/i...1&tracker_id=2

sure it needs registration and email but that's little cost for chance get issue solved, obtain community help or even figure workaround till issue is resolved or else ...
NEW : OpenID login is supported (easier for lazier ones)

one of best ways how get things involved is take part (even just by reporting some glitch) ...

old thread Spoiler:

show spoiler

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=73478

[MavericK96]

Yes, USE THIS, PEOPLE! You can report bugs here but if you don't post them to the CIT along with crashdumps and/or report files, there's really nothing BIS can do about it.

[Nicholas]

If you guys updated the TIC to be more user-friendly, I'm pretty sure lots of people would be happy to use it. But in its current state, it's not very user-friendly.

[AnimalMother92]

I love the CIT, the functionality is superb.

[MavericK96]

I don't see how it's "user unfriendly". If you read the instructions on how to properly format a ticket, it's not difficult at all.

[Dwarden]

If you guys updated the TIC to be more user-friendly, I'm pretty sure lots of people would be happy to use it. But in its current state, it's not very user-friendly.

what's not user friendly ?

all you need is register and fill report page and in worst case attach some files (crashdump related)

[jpinard]

Dwarden,
Will you guys still read the latest beta thread? The discussion in those threads can present information in a better format than the CIT in many circumstances.

For those that think the CIT is super easy to use. For a non-techie it is not simple to use compared to a forum. A forum is easy as pie to use. My Mom, at 67 years old is an avid gamer and Grandmother. She can post on a forum just fine. I have her system specs in a Word document she can copy and paste without knowing anything about her system. But looking at the CIT would be overwhelming for her. It would take her a year to fill out all the information required and chances are some of it would be wrong.

What is easy for a programmer or database manager is not easy for the average user. And it's a bit short-sighted to assume anyone who has a legitimate issue in ArmA2 is capable of navigating that system. I certainly will use it, but seeing how I know some people who would like to report issues and aren't very technical should not be shut out or overlooked. Otherwise you might as well just shut the tech sections of the "forum" down.

---------- Post added at 01:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 AM ----------

I really hope no one takes offense at my post. Also - Dwarden, I forgot to get those Anistropic screenshots to you. Sorry about that. I'm trying to find a good place to demonstrate it.

-Jeff

[oktane]

Look, what makes more sense?

• A developer spending most of his time in a forum, trying to extrapolate information and issues intertwined in complaints, opinions and various nonsense. And there is a lot of nonsense. (you have seen this in person)
• A developer goes to a bug tracker, to fix a bug which has clear and direct repro steps. He now has more time to address other bugs. If more information is needed, it is simple to ask and track the status all on a single ticket dedicated to the issue, not 15 scattered forum threads.

There are helpful people around like Dwarden that end up filling the 'in-between' of getting issues from the forums to the CIT, when they exist.

In most cases, the CIT is a professionally-maintained (by volunteers like kju) place where bugs go to get fixed with the least amount of drama, wasted time, etc. There isn't a 'change in policy' that you are reading into here, Dwarden is just reminding everyone that the CIT is where most bugs get fixed, and that is how it has been for many, many months now.

The forum is a waste of time that can be better spent on the issues themselves. Contrary to your argument, it is not hard to fill out a bug report, many examples are given. (please see this simple page: http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/wiki) Forum is okay for chatting, opinions, etc. But not ideal for development issues. It's a clear matter of efficiency and accuracy. CIT tickets usually don't have trolls, complaining, scattered topics, etc.

Sure you can use the forum because it's easy and you wouldn't like to learn something new right now. But that isn't usually how work gets done. This is indeed work for them, and if you were working, I trust you would expect some kind of standards in your working environment. Try to think of it from their perspective please. Posting issues to the forum actually does them a small disservice, as now you've required someone else to grok your issue and make a proper CIT ticket of it anyways, and it may not be how you originally described due to a misunderstanding.. and it's missing repro missions, etc.

Also: Not everyone is suited to be a QA Tester and bug reporter. It takes work, and you don't get paid. And it isn't expected either, nobody is forcing anyone to run the betas. They are for testing, feedback and bug reporting of the game engine on a larger pool of testers. But if you wish to use it and not report bugs, that's okay too. But don't force the simplistic requirements on those that want to do the work, nor should you feel wronged by the developers for wanting to use an efficient system for their ongoing development. (sounds a bit selfish, or self centered, no?) If you do report bugs, it is expected they conform to some very simple requirements, it isn't huge deal like it's been made out to be here.

I doubt that the devs will stop reading occasional forum posts. When the CIT started, they didn't, why would they now? But if they did, I honestly wouldn't blame them one bit. (we already discussed why in PM)

And remember, since the CIT was created, various people have filled the gap between the CIT and those on the forums that are unable/unwilling to take the time to make tickets.

Cheers

PS: Be sure to make the distinction between the Bug/Feature tracker and 'troubleshooting', they are not the same. The CIT deals with things that are wrong with the game that affect everyone in most cases, whereas the troubleshooting forum can be user-related configuration issues, users helping users, etc. Real bugs are normally very complicated, and require a lot of data for the developer to reproduce. If a person has not been a QA tester before, they have to learn a bit to become one. It isn't as simple as reporting a problem in a forum post, it is almost never that simple. And the forum gives people a 'false hope' of their problem being recified, since so many people are posting about xyz issue, but it is not organized and there is usually missing information the dev's require to rectify the issue quickly. This is another reason for the dedicated bug testers that adhere to the requirements and post clear issues with the required information, without back and forth requests between people that are not acclimated to QA testing or game development. Try to imagine a person quality checking your work at whatever your day to day profession is, I assume you would want him to at least know what your job entails before he goes telling you how you're doing it wrong, right?

[Dwarden]

yes i read such forum threads and hunt bugs,glitches,issues crashes and reports from deep corners of internet ...

---------- Post added at 10:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------

i added screenshot of the simple screen, if this is complex to fill then i really don't know
not to mention you don't need even fill all

[Nicholas]

The thing is, the web site there is a mess. It needs to be more organized. The links at the top are no help. It doesn't tell you where to submit a bug. It lists "Overall Issues" when it should be something like "Submit and Track Issues" . It's not the form that is un-friendly, it's the web site itself. I'd be happy to whip up an example web site that would be more user-friendly.