Ubisoft's Draconian DRM

[BangTail]

Please note, this is a discussion of UBISOFT'S NEW DRM and not protection in general.

Please do not discuss anything to do with the OFP/ARMA games or their protections in this thread.

Thanks in advance :)

Here's the article :

http://www.guru3d.com/news/ubisoft-assasins-creed-2-drm-require-internet/

I, for one, will never buy anything with this sort of protection. If your connection (or their server) goes down, you lose all progress and the game boots you out.

[Baff1]

What does it matter since they don't sell any games worth playing?

[BangTail]

What does it matter since they don't sell any games worth playing?

Well, that's one way of looking at it but the danger is that it could spread to other companies whose games you might actually like :(

For me at least, this type of protection automatically precludes me from buying ANY game that uses it no matter how much I want it. I'm all for companies protecting their games, I even make an exception with ED and Black Shark because I don't like Starfarce, but I buy their games anyway as they are so good. Unfortunately, the current UBI DRM is where I draw the line. I'm not having my gameplay controlled by their master servers in an SP game. Not now, not ever.

[Pathy]

Aside from the pure retardation of single player requiring internet, what happens in 5 years time when they no longer support the master server. Can you imagine if old replayable games like Deus Ex had this kind of DRM?

[Deadfast]

ENN on The Escapist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com) had a good (albeit short) "coverage" on this in this episode at 1:57 (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escapist-news-network/1434-Natal-Scandal).

My personal opinion?
The suits got it all wrong again.
"Hm, we really need to decrease the piracy!"
"True, I have an idea. How about we make it nearly impossible for the customers to play our games?"
"Oh, that is such a great idea! That will surely show the pirates!"

[Mr Burns]

In a perfect world only the most uninformed hillbillys would buy a game with this DRM. But the huge sales numbers of Warfail2 and Sales Rising stay as a reminder for us that a perfect world isn´t nowhere near at all.

SH5 will get enough sales to justify the UBI bosses in their decision. Case closed.

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Aside from the pure retardation of single player requiring internet, what happens in 5 years time when they no longer support the master server. Can you imagine if old replayable games like Deus Ex had this kind of DRM?

It's funny that you mention Deus Ex because I just restarted a game the other day. I would be mightily upset if I couldn't play because some asshat decided to turn the server off.

[BangTail]

ENN on The Escapist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com) had a good (albeit short) "coverage" on this in this episode at 1:57 (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escapist-news-network/1434-Natal-Scandal).

My personal opinion?
The suits got it all wrong again.
"Hm, we really need to decrease the piracy!"
"True, I have an idea. How about we make it nearly impossible for the customers to play our games?"
"Oh, that is such a great idea! That will surely show the pirates!"

What's even funnier is that these boneheads haven't realised that the more you "fly in the face" of pirates, the quicker they circumvent your "unbreakable" protection scheme.

All things like this DRM do is inconvenience paying customers.

[DM]

Aside from the pure retardation of single player requiring internet, what happens in 5 years time when they no longer support the master server. Can you imagine if old replayable games like Deus Ex had this kind of DRM?

This. Its something that comes up about steam a lot too. Its all well and good now, but what happens in a few years time when its all gone? I have games from 1996/7 which I still play now, but what of the new DRM-raped games? Will I still be playing them in 14 years time, or will they be long forgotten whilst I'm still playing Red Alert and TA?

[echo1]

The old clichés are really true - pirates will get around this stuff in the end, and only the honest customer will suffer. In fact, it will probably drive more people to piracy rather than deter them.

At the end of the day, DRM will get to a point whereby if it was any more draconian, it would be blatantly illegal (moreso than it already is) and they'll have to give it up. Hell, it could even kill the games industry as we know it.

Anyways, I echo Baff's sentiments - Ubisoft are shit. I never forgave them for what they did to Rainbow Six...

[JdB]

Aside from the pure retardation of single player requiring internet, what happens in 5 years time when they no longer support the master server. Can you imagine if old replayable games like Deus Ex had this kind of DRM?

EA has started pulling the plug on games that aren't even 2 years old.

[Pathy]

EA has started pulling the plug on games that aren't even 2 years old.

Really? Christ. Maybe i'm just old school but a 2 year old game is plenty playable for me. Hell, I regularly go back to stuff like Fallout 2, Thief 1 & 2, Deus Ex (as mentioned). 2 years is nothing. I even played some Unreal Tournament Multiplayer not so long ago.

Pulling the plug is not a major drama in most cases, because the SP is still accessible with these. But for instance, AvP2, the master servers went down, and a still reasonably active MP just instantly died (although there is a fan made patch that resolves this). Now if you were to tie everything, MP and SP, into these master servers and well, you'd be screwed...

Needless to say, the idea of a SP game you can only play connected to the internet is stretching things, but the more I think about it, the more sinister this gets.

It seems that the games companies these days just want to push us from shiny (& overhyped) bauble to shiny bauble - which makes perfect sense, as good as Deus Ex may be, nobody gets any money when I do my annual playthrough later this year, whereas if I buy a new game, well, thats a different story. Games Companies don't want us to linger on a game it seems, and with good reason - they'd prefer we're buying something brand new. It's also not like EA don't have a long track record of pushing out a slightly updated version of old games (FIFA series, for example). Whats a more ideal way to prevent gamers lingering than to effectively control how much longevity a game has through controlling the master servers. Pushed from bauble to bauble.

Lets say you're happily playing Uber Leet Snip0r Warz 1? Well, Uber Leet Snip0r Warz 2 is out tomorrow, and by co-incidence the master servers for #1 are closing in 2 weeks......See where i'm headed? Call me cynical, but games companies are getting more and more mercenary in thier approach, and I wouldn't discount this as the natural conclusion to the path EA are taking. Now, whether they'll succeed or not is another matter. A pissed off gamer can be quite something!

[Von_Paulus]

Call me cynical, but games companies are getting more and more mercenary in thier approach, and I wouldn't discount this as the natural conclusion to the path EA are taking.
No, I'm afraid you're not being cynical at all. The corporate world is filled with this. And this isn't happen only with big corporations. I've seen this approach being used in my daily basis experience. :mad:

[BangTail]

A pissed off gamer can be quite something!

SWG anyone :p

In all seriousness, it's total BS and a way to control what we buy. By shutting down "Game Number 1", they are effectively forcing you to buy the recently announced "Game Number 2" (or just not play at all).

The greed on this planet is spiraling out of control I'm afraid. Very sad :(

[Mr Burns]

Call me cynical, but games companies are getting more and more mercenary in thier approach, and I wouldn't discount this as the natural conclusion to the path EA are taking.
No, I'm afraid you're not being cynical at all. The corporate world is filled with this. And this isn't happen only with big corporations. I've seen this approach being used in my daily basis experience. :mad:

True. As long as any business estimates their worth through stock markets this trend will hold on. They´re going hysteric for loosing minor values (pardon my non existant knowlegde/usage of specific terms) while still being in a good plus and start firing employees or closing down whole studios - just because their sense of worth has come down to "oh shit we´re not making plus´" instead of "hey, we´re writing black numbers, let´s reinvest!".

[TangoRomeo]

SH5 will get enough sales to justify the UBI bosses in their decision.

I sincerely hope you'll be proven wrong, though looking at Anno, makes me believe otherwise. Seeing how publishers are willing to alienate an established fanbase, does speak volumes about the market and where it is heading to.
b0yEo0UdKJs

[Sniperwolf572]

Lets say you're happily playing Uber Leet Snip0r Warz 1? Well, Uber Leet Snip0r Warz 2 is out tomorrow, and by co-incidence the master servers for #1 are closing in 2 weeks......See where i'm headed!

While that might seem like a great idea to milk money effectively at first, if it became a common and known practice, I'm pretty sure it would eventually either result games dropping in price massively or a decline in customer numbers.

Right now it's out of the spotlight so I think nobody notices or cares about such issues. Until something radical happens, like master servers go down for a popular game for a week/month, and you can't do anything with the game during that time, it won't really get the attention it deserves. I'm pretty sure creating a hype on the scale of 'No Russian', to get media attention would do the trick.

[DMarkwick]

Doesn't Steam already run this sort of system? There might be small differences in detail, but if I lose my inet connection, I cannot play any of my Orange Box games.

But having said that, even Steam's system is overly draconian IMO. I also hear that SH5 (which I am looking forward to BTW) has a 30install limit. Not even any reclaimable installs after an uninstall.

Aside from Steam's online verification method (which seems to work), I don't know that there's any evidence that limiting installs is in any way effective. In fact, I believe Steam allows you to reinstall any number of times right? At least that's a result of genuine logic, whereas the limited install method only has to appeal to some goon in a suit with no idea.

[Emberwolf]

Steam has an offline mode. I've been able to play singleplayer games through it on the occasion that I couldn't get online. Even when I was playing a singleplayer game on Steam and Steam itself dropped, my game didn't screw up or shut down. I haven't tried Valve's own games this way, I'm guessing they misbehave since they require Steamworks.

Hell, playing multiplayer games purchased through Steam which didn't use Steamworks networking weren't even interrupted when Steam went down.

With UBI, if the connection goes, the singleplayer game stops, and you can't even save your game. Kinda sucks if you were three hours into a patrol from your last save in SH5.

Regarding subsimming, probably the best thing is to get SH3, install GWX, and cope with not having a first person submarine tour which will likely get old after 5 minutes anyway. I'm really unimpressed with what they've shown in SH5 previews so far, the GUI looks horrendous. The Atlantic has water from the Caribbean. VII-type only, war ends in 1943. Ugh. Still, I'd probably pick it up if it I knew it didn't have the retarded UBI DRM.

The forced online requirement at all times was also why I didn't buy Rise of Flight. I heard that they were removing that requirement, although I couldn't find any official sources. If they do actually remove the requirement, I'll happily purchase it, but until then, Over Flanders Fields gets my WWI playtime, since the people who made it don't consider their customers criminals by default. :)

[Sanctuary]

The forced online requirement at all times was also why I didn't buy Rise of Flight. I heard that they were removing that requirement, although I couldn't find any official sources. If they do actually remove the requirement, I'll happily purchase it, but until then, Over Flanders Fields gets my WWI playtime, since the people who made it don't consider their customers criminals by default. :)
That is confirmed apparently on the official website :
http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2010/02/05/LOGIN-OFFLINE-ACCESS-GRANTED!!!.aspx

[DMarkwick]

Regarding subsimming, probably the best thing is to get SH3, install GWX, and cope with not having a first person submarine tour which will likely get old after 5 minutes anyway.

You mean apart from the Starforce protection? ;) I only bought SH3 after there was a "solution" for Starforce.

Oh, and I don't think the first person feature is the thing that the Silent Hunter franchise is most valued for ;) like a lot of the best sims, SH is a slow-burner with flurries of extreme excitement :)

[BangTail]

Anyways, I echo Baff's sentiments - Ubisoft are shit. I never forgave them for what they did to Rainbow Six...

Amen brother - I still play Raven Shield (some great audio there). Lockdown and beyond are a bloody travesty.

[TangoRomeo]

snippets from ubisoft OSP Q&A:


Can I resell my game?
Not at this time.

Can I resell my game along with my Ubisoft account?
Your Ubisoft account features your personal data and cannot be given or sold to anyone.

How does Ubisoft use my personal information? How can I control which data is actually provided to Ubisoft?
Ubisoft uses information provided by its customers only to ensure our services run properly for an optimal gameplay experience - including the customer service. Ubisoft does not use personal information for any other purposes, unless you have explicitly accepted for us to do so.

Why is Ubisoft forcing their loyal customers to sign up for a Ubisoft account when they don't want to give their private data and only play single player games?
We hope that customers will feel as we do, that signing up for an account will offer them exceptional gameplay and services that are not available otherwise.

... nice. I especially like the last one. The honesty in all this is just heart warming. :D

---------- Post added at 10:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------



Aside from Steam's online verification method (which seems to work), I don't know that there's any evidence that limiting installs is in any way effective.

Not in context with piracy .. but reselling, give-away, etc. If all activations are used up, i bet you could buy a new set. Customer service :D.

[Krycek]

These days I'm wondering how my favourite platform still survives,3 factors will continue to damage pc gaming.
1.Pirates that pirate everything they could get their dirty hands on,at least some have the decency to just admit it instead of inserting pathethic excuses like "but it was a bad game anyway",oh yeah?How about you don't friggin play it if it was so bad.

2.M$ that doens't give a shit about the platform and if that is not enough they even actively sabotage it by paying devs to release their games on X360first and then on pc(6 months delay or longer) or just simply cancel the pc version(look at Alan Wake fiasco,GOW2 and many others).

3.Companies like Ubisoft that put very restrictive drm on their games.Seeing this in 2010 I'm wondering if the suits are really idiots or just retards with diplomas.Even a kid will understand that everything gets cracked and with this new DRM I'm wondering if those who still wanted to buy a game will simply run towards the pirate version or simply will not give a fuck about the game.Pathethic enough I believe in this case the pirate version will be better since will not have any sort of this UBI crap.

These are the 3 factors that is killing this platform.Which is actually worse since this is a very vicious circle,people will pirate even more "hey this game is crap anyway and these people stop me from playing their stuff with their nazi drm",UBI and the suits will be like "well damn dude again they're pirating the crap out of our games,we need a new DRM for our already draconian DRM" and the role of M$ in all this story?Well they actually don't give a crap since the big corporations will buy their Windows and that brings them more money than me,you and other average joe will when buying a license.For the games part they have X360.

Let's just hope we don't end up like Mac gaming.Too bad about AC2 and Settlers 7,I was looking forward to these games.Even SC:Conviction made me interested a bit.

[Deadfast]

...

Point 3 only further reinforces point 1.

So, people will pay $50 to get more annoyance when they can just click a few buttons and get the same deal for free without it? What are the CEO's thinking with?

[[APS]Gnat]

How is it not illegal to "lock" something you buy / own so you can never sell it.

Its a consumers legal right to be able to sell something they own / they have purchased, either today or in 10 years.
So long as it leaves your ownership and 100% transfers to another person, its legal.

Imagine it you bought a car or a book or a TV or a CD, and the supplier said you may never ever sell it at any time!
Or in 5 years its been disabled!
Send in the lawyers.

[DMarkwick]

Gnat;1573654']How is it not illegal to "lock" something you buy / own so you can never sell it.

Its a consumers legal right to be able to sell something they own / they have purchased.
So long as it leaves your ownership and 100% transfers to another person, its legal.

Imagine it you bought a car or a book or a TV or a CD, and the supplier said you may never ever sell it at any time!
Send in the lawyers.

Ostensibly, I agree with that sentiment. The fact is that regarding software, you never actually "own" it. You only pay to use it. Specifically, you pay for a license to use it, which is why every software release thinks it's important for you to read the license agreement :)

You can apparently do what you like with the disc, the instruction manual, the cover etc, but the *actual* software is a different matter.

---------- Post added at 03:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------


These days I'm wondering how my favourite platform still survives,3 factors will continue to damage pc gaming.
1.Pirates that pirate everything they could get...

Some pirates pirate everything they can get. No amount of DRM or cheapness of product will ever touch these guys, pirating anything they can is their raison d'etre.


2.M$ that doens't give a shit about the platform and if that is not enough they even actively sabotage...

MS does what MS does, I don't see why that affects anyone else.


3.Companies like Ubisoft that put very restrictive drm on their games...

The problem is not with the "pirate anything" pirates as discussed in point #1, the problem is with the casual pirate who says something like "oh yeah I always download it first, then pay for it later if it's good". That's the cop-out, because they simply do not. They SAY they do/will, but they do not. Why buy something you already have?


These are the 3 factors that is killing this platform.Which is actually worse since this is a very vicious circle...

I'm detecting a little rantage here ;) so I guess I'll just leave it at that :)

[colossus]

I don't really understand the mentalty behind DRM these days. Far as I know, every attempt to enforce DRM, since the 90's, have been futile until now. You couldn't imagen how much money publishers have invested in ineffective DRMs since that time. They of all people should know unproductive investments, and DRM sure is one of those investments.

Taking out DRM of the equation, what do they have to lose that hasn't already happened?

[Krycek]

I don't really understand the mentalty behind DRM these days. Far as I know, every attempt to enforce DRM, since the 90's, have been futile until now. You couldn't imagen how much money publishers have invested in ineffective DRMs since that time. They of all people should know unproductive invesments, and DRM sure is one of those investments.

Taking out DRM of the equation, what do they have to lose that hasn't already happened?

I think they know eventually it will get cracked but all it matters is when,new games tend to sell by the shitload in the first month.If they could delay the cracked version to hit the torrents on launch day with the help of DRM then they get more money.Every day from that point on that the DRM still isn't cracked it's a big plus for them.

I don't think they use these protections to stop the pirates,only delay them as long as they can because most of the gamers and especially the kids will not have the patience and will buy the game.

In general that's why I can't agree with those who says that piracy doesn't affect things,well it does and big time at least concerning the pc gaming segment,imagine if no crackers or torrent sites exist how will those people who pirate everything will get their fix?Simple,some will find another hobby and the others will simply buy it.

@<hidden>,I include M$ because they are part of this poison,I don't give a crap if they don't care about the pc gaming,but I do have a problem when they pay devs for exclusive games on their console and delaying or cancelling the pc version.Yes it's alright to do that for PS3 because they are their direct competitors but don't fuck up your own platforms.How many people just gave up and bought a X360 for a game that was launching months later on pc or not at all after the console version was out?!

[DMarkwick]

How many people just gave up and bought a X360 for a game that was launching months later on pc or not at all after the console version was out?!

I have no idea, and I doubt anyone has. Such a notion would be pure conjecture. If a person cannot wait a few weeks for a simple game without instantly buying the console that it IS released on, that person would be in a tiny minority I reckon.

[Baff1]

The fact is that regarding software, you never actually "own" it.
You only pay to use it.
Specifically, you pay for a license to use it, which is why every software release thinks it's important for you to read the license agreement


While there is no Federal Laws or Federal Court rulings (EU or US) to support your assertion there are a number of court cases in various district/regional courts to consider on this point.

6/9 of the ones I've seen ruled that the purchaser is in fact the owner of the software.
(Not to be confused with the copyright holder).




The first-sale doctrine is an exception to copyright codified in the US Copyright Act, section 109. The doctrine of first sale allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e. sell, rent, or give away) a particular, legally acquired copy of protected work without permission once it has been obtained. That means the distribution rights of a copyright holder end on that particular copy once the copy is sold.


Software manufactuers have argued that this does not apply to them as their product is not sold, only lisenced.
This is still however the law as it stands today.
It has not been modified or ammended to address the wishes of software manufacturers. No legal precedents to the contrary have been set.

(EU law is more or less word for word the same as U.S. law).



Here are two examples of district court ruling on the subject.


District courts in California and Texas have issued decisions applying the doctrine of first sale for bundled computer software in Softman v. Adobe (2001) and Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc. (2000) even if the software contains a EULA prohibiting resale. In the Softman case, after purchasing bundled software (A box containing many programs that are also available individually) from Adobe, Softman unbundled it and then resold the component programs. The California District Court ruled that Softman could resell the bundled software, no matter what the EULA stipulates, because Softman had never assented to the EULA. Specifically, the ruling decreed that software purchases be treated as sales transactions, rather than explicit license agreements. In other words, the court ruling argued that Californian consumers should have the same rights they would enjoy under existing copyright legislation when buying a CD or a book.

And conversly...


In a more recent case involving software EULA's and first-sale rights [Davidson & Associates v. Internet Gateway Inc (2004)][2], the US District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri issued a ruling which appears to contradict the position of the Californian and Texan courts. The first sale reasoning of the California District Court in Softman v. Adobe was challenged, with the court ruling '"The first sale doctrine is only triggered by an actual sale. Accordingly, a copyright owner does not forfeit his right of distribution by entering into a licensing agreement.' In addition, the Court found the plaintiffs EULA, which prohibited resale, was binding on the defendants because 'The defendants .. expressly consented to the terms of the EULA and TOU by clicking "I Agree" and "Agree."' This runs counter to Softman v. Adobe. The difference in these rulings has yet to be resolved by a superior court.

[DMarkwick]

While there is no Federal Laws or Federal Court rulings (EU or US) to support your assertion there are a number of court cases in various district/regional courts to consider on this point.

6/9 of the ones I've seen ruled that the purchaser is in fact the owner of the software.
(Not to be confused with the copyright holder).

I would maintain my original position :) in the same way that I own a book, but do not own the contents of the book i.e. the story, information, or whatever. I'm not allowed to copy or reproduce the contents of the book, CD or whatever. Therefore I don't own the media's contents, only the media itself i.e. the CD, DVD, book.

Copyright, to be sure, but software is not to be read or listened to, it's to be used. I cannot play CDs in a public place, nor read a book aloud in a public place, (that last one might be BS ;)) because I don't own the contents and that activity doesn't come into the rules of which I can use them.

I daresay copyright vs ownership of content differs from place to place, but I'm pretty sure that's the way it is for both the US and the UK.

[Baff1]

I don't really understand the mentalty behind DRM these days. Far as I know, every attempt to enforce DRM, since the 90's, have been futile until now. You couldn't imagen how much money publishers have invested in ineffective DRMs since that time. They of all people should know unproductive investments, and DRM sure is one of those investments.

Taking out DRM of the equation, what do they have to lose that hasn't already happened?

I think the current target is the secondhand games market.
It's not what they have to lose, it's what they have to gain.

---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------


I would maintain my original position :) in the same way that I own a book, but do not own the contents of the book i.e. the story, information, or whatever. I'm not allowed to copy or reproduce the contents of the book, CD or whatever. Therefore I don't own the media's contents, only the media itself i.e. the CD, DVD, book.

Copyright, to be sure, but software is not to be read or listened to, it's to be used. I cannot play CDs in a public place, nor read a book aloud in a public place, (that last one might be BS ;)) because I don't own the contents and that activity doesn't come into the rules of which I can use them.

I daresay copyright vs ownership of content differs from place to place, but I'm pretty sure that's the way it is for both the US and the UK.

While you may not own the copywright to a book you have purchased, you do own the book. The individual copy you have purchased is yours to sell on if you so wish. You are also free to lend it out or give it away etc. More than one person is allowed to use that book.
The right to make copies of a book or to publicly broadcast it's contents are held by the copyright owner and not the purchaser of any individual copy.
There is a difference between owning a copy and owning the copyright.


Copyright laws don't vary between many places with strong trade agreements.
They are all pretty much identical in The West. As previously noted EU (UK) and US laws on this subject are almost word for word identical.
In the specific case of Digital Media, we (the EU) directly adopted the U.S. Laws.

While you may wish to argue the law or propose a more applicable or more moral set of rulings, I only wish to clarify it.
You may feel you don't own your game discs you purchased, but the law disagree's.

(That's not to say that you can't sign your ownership rights over to Ubisoft/whoever if you so wish, that you can't honour a EULA agreement if you so wish. You can. But you are under no binding obligation to do so and anyone attempting to force you to be would have to take you to court).


Your feelings about the matter however hold obvious merit and a number of court cases have been successfully fought this way in the past.
(It is worth noting that more have been lost to this arguement than won).

As yet, with no federal precedents set, no ammendements enshrined; you legally own your games if you purchased them from a retailer. This may change in the future. Who knows? Certainly there are active lobby groups with this agenda in mind.

[andersson]

I buy games I play (I play just a few games, narrowminded or picky). I have no problems paying the few bucks for the effort someone put into the software I enjoy. I want to support the team/company that made something I like.

In this case I cant do it even if I wanted to. I do not want to buy a game that I need internet for, nor do I want to have a game that might be unplayable when they decide to shut the servers. So in this case, if I want to play SH5, I just have to DL a pirated version.
This "protection" is not working as it is, more or less, forcing people to DL cracked versions to get around the problems.

[NeMeSiS]

In this case I cant do it even if I wanted to. I do not want to buy a game that I need internet for, nor do I want to have a game that might be unplayable when they decide to shut the servers. So in this case, if I want to play SH5, I just have to DL a pirated version.
This "protection" is not working as it is, more or less, forcing people to DL cracked versions to get around the problems.

Well, you could still buy it anyway to support them. :p
Not that it makes the whole situation any less ridiculous.

[DM]

Well, you could still buy it anyway to support them.

The pointof not buying is to "have your say"

As a consumer, you have little other option than to simply not buy a product if there is any aspect you dont like. Sadly too many people still buy it anyway and the accountants at the other end still see a net profit.

Eventually, as with everything, the big companies will realise that its this bullshit DRM nonsense which is driving more and more people to piracy. Hopefully they will realise this before the industry dies, but who knows.......

[[RIP] Luhgnut]

Here's the sad truth to all this.
Within 24 hours of a titles release. There is a crack for it. No matter the protection, they can crack it nearly as soon as it's released. They crack the protection faster than the publisher can get fixes out for the legit copies that fail on your system.

[NeMeSiS]

The pointof not buying is to "have your say"

I get that, but saying that you cant support your favorite developer is ofcourse bullshit. ;)

Its a shame that small developers will be hit much harder than big publishers by taking a stand against this, but i guess thats just the way it is.

[TangoRomeo]

There's a petition up:
No to Ubisoft DRM (http://www.petitiononline.com/ew15dl94/petition.html)

Baff is on target.

Ultimately, your buying decision will factor right into their balance sheets and future prospect of PC gaming. May sound overly dramatic, but some people do not realize there`s more at stake than just loosing a save game due to packet loss.

They make noise about protecting their investment, but that's only half the story. It has been stated that despite the DRM system introduced, they expect their UPlay infested titles to appear on torrent sites within a couple of days after release.

So if it can not prevent the inevitable, what for. It's all about cashing in - by trying to subdue re-sales or give aways, and making the customer give up his/her privacy in order to play these games. Moral equivalent of a leech.

[DMarkwick]

There's a petition up:
No to Ubisoft DRM (http://www.petitiononline.com/ew15dl94/petition.html)

I signed, and as I did so it bumped the numbers to 1788. I don't know whether this will make any difference, they might simply view it as evidence of pirates wanting less aggressive DRM, or simply that they will be less interested in PC development in the future due to "difficulty" with the format customer base.

At the very least, maybe the devs might set up shop in a new company and make something better after they all get fired. Just like MSFS. Oops.

As the release date is so close, I expect no change will be made to the product's planned DRM.

[nomdeplume]

If it was about protecting release-time sales, then why don't the companies publicly state they'll be releasing a patch 1 or 2 or 3 months after release, that removes the DRM (and then follow through on that promise)? That way the people who want to have it right away can get it, and those that want to make sure their investment is protected will have that assurance.

Personally, I think it's more about maximising profits by destroying both the second-hand market, and the long-term market. Since people playing a game for years and years after release doesn't help the bottom line (only retail sales do) it's not something the companies are actually going to care about. If they do think about it, then it will probably be seen as a negative: people that are playing old games have no need to buy new games, so by releasing a really good game that'll be fun to play for years to come you're actually sabotaging your future market (competing with yourself, effectively).

At least, that's how I think it's seen - many many games these days seem designed to be good enough that people will buy them, and then be forgotten and replaced by the newest one. Having the ability to switch off the authentication servers and kill an old game outright must be very appealing to the moneycounters.

But there also seems to be a lot of hostility amongst customers when developers/publishers try to monetise the long-term success of a game (expansion packs, subscription-based services, etc.). I for one would be happy to pay much more than normal "game" prices for a good sim, on the understanding that much more than the normal amount of work goes into making them and they provide much more than the regular amount of gameplay; but when such things are suggested on forums, it's often met with a lot of anger from customers who seem to feel entitled to getting a perfect, vast, detailed, bug-free game for their $50. Much like the big publishers seem to feel entitled to put whatever ridiculous restrictions they like around the games they publish.

I fear the final solution will be the effective death of PC gaming, and everything will be on consoles with fearsome DRM baked into the hardware.

[TangoRomeo]

I don't know whether this will make any difference
Don't know if this particular petition will achieve the desired effect through direct means, i doubt it also. If UBIs DRM is brought to the attention of the broad public, with more news/-gaming sites catching the vibe, alot has been achieved already.


they might simply view it as evidence of pirates wanting less aggressive DRM
I would imagine a pirate petition reading something like "Bring it on, throw your best punch". :p j/k



But there also seems to be a lot of hostility amongst customers when developers/publishers try to monetise the long-term success of a game (expansion packs, subscription-based services, etc.). I for one would be happy to pay much more than normal "game" prices for a good sim, on the understanding that much more than the normal amount of work goes into making them and they provide much more than the regular amount of gameplay

Distrust and objection of an exclusive online implementation is appropriate for many people, in my case it's profound contempt. Currently i´m evaluating my legal options against them for using texture material in preview/advertising of SH5, definitely not coming from an inhouse artist.
Other than this, the required services are not transparent to the consumer, he has to trust the company not to distribute/ monetize (http://www.newsweek.com/id/233773) on personal data. Just as the customer has to trust them to keep the servers online 24/7- without additional charges for doing so, or changing the policy (i.e. PtP) on a title. He has to trust them to support the product after it has been taken off the servers. What if your account gets suspended because of a UBI forum mod who doesn't like your posts/chatlogs? That's alot of Qs and one sided trust that i do not see warranted, the player is at the very short end of the stick in this.

I support quality products and business practises, that's why i won't buy anything listed on UBIs future portfolio.

[BangTail]

Don't know if this particular petition will achieve the desired effect through direct means, i doubt it also. If UBIs DRM is brought to the attention of the broad public, with more news/-gaming sites catching the vibe, alot has been achieved already.


I would imagine a pirate petition reading something like "Bring it on, throw your best punch". :p j/k




Distrust and objection of an exclusive online implementation is appropriate for many people, in my case it's profound contempt. Currently i´m evaluating my legal options against them for using texture material in preview/advertising of SH5, definitely not coming from an inhouse artist.
Other than this, the required services are not transparent to the consumer, he has to trust the company not to distribute/ monetize (http://www.newsweek.com/id/233773) on personal data. Just as the customer has to trust them to keep the servers online 24/7- without additional charges for doing so, or changing the policy (i.e. PtP) on a title. He has to trust them to support the product after it has been taken off the servers. What if your account gets suspended because of a UBI forum mod who doesn't like your posts/chatlogs? That's alot of Qs and one sided trust that i do not see warranted, the player is at the very short end of the stick in this.

I support quality products and business practises, that's why i won't buy anything listed on UBIs future portfolio.

As you say, too many ifs. Like yourself, I will not purchase anything from Ubisuck until their intrusive and arrogant behaviour with regards to their customers changes (drastically).

[Sanctuary]

While the online petition is good and all, the only thing that will work against such intrusive piece of drm is just voting with your wallet, meaning just not buying.

Because that's exactly where such company is looking, they don't care if a customer is satisfied or not, they just care about him throwing the money into their general direction.
And additionally, not only they want even more money by preventing the second hand sales, but with that DRM they can even mine data from the constantly online gamers and sell them like Google does successfully already since years.

While i have no real care about any ubi games as they are no more my cup of tea, for Silent Hunter it is not like if there was not already very good atlantic front - german submarine sim (SH3+GWX) always playing very well at it, then one does not really "need" to submit his privacy and comfort to the will of some companies just to play the "new shiny version with pretty lights and smoke", there are already good simulations on the same genre and theater of operation with nice enough graphics already.

[MrBump]

Ars has an article about the most obviously effected group...

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/02/the-victims-of-pc-gaming-drm-one-soldiers-story.ars

[Macser]

I agree with Sanctuary on this one,

Unfortunately,the only way to truly express your anger at these situations,is not buy any of the company's products.
And where possible,encourage others to follow suit.

They only listen to the beep of cash registers and the rustle of cash.
:)

[nuxil]

all i say is .. "UberSuck" is digging ther own grave

[BangTail]

Just saw this in part of the TOS relating to Assassin's Creed 2 on Steam :


UBISOFT MAY CANCEL ACCESS TO ONLINE FEATURES UPON A 30-DAY PRIOR NOTICE PUBLISHED AT http://assassinscreed.com


Oh, and as usual, if you pay them months in advance for their intrusive, DRM ridden garbage, you'll get some inconsequential free maps.

That is another trend I'm getting sick of. The "Special" Edition and the pre order "incentives". On the very rare occasion, the SE is actually worth the extra money (never where Ubisuck is involved of course, their games aren't worth the money they charge in the first place) but it's usually just a weak excuse to tack $20.00 on to the asking price.

Ubisuck's DRM causes more problems.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/02/the-victims-of-pc-gaming-drm-one-soldiers-story.ars

[Krycek]

all i say is .. "UberSuck" is digging ther own grave

No they won't,they get all the big bucks from console sales.Either way you're looking at it we are the ones who loose.
If AC2 pc version is a succes they will continue to make games with this anal drm,if AC2 fails on pc they may decide to not publish their games on pc anymore.
I agree that Ubi games are suffering from consolitis but some of them are still interesting(at least for me) to purchase them.

[Baff1]

I fear the final solution will be the effective death of PC gaming, and everything will be on consoles with fearsome DRM baked into the hardware.
Now that most games are released on consoles, most piracy occours on consoles too.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------


While the online petition is good and all, the only thing that will work against such intrusive piece of drm is just voting with your wallet, meaning just not buying.

Their plummeting sales figures haven't seemed to have persuaded them of anything in the past.

Historically the only thing that has ever persuaded Ubisosft has been legal action.
Which has had a 100% success rate.

[Iroquois Pliskin]

No matter the petitions, forum rage et cetera, the game - Assassin's Creed 2 will sell in millions. (SHunter is a different story due to the niche genre and lack of hype)

The population will be increasing exponentially at some point in the near future -- new markets are emerging and, of course, factor in the teen mentality along with the 'cool' side of things, just another wave of people, that never read your petition, played your favourite games. Just another hundred thousand people, buying first PCs, getting internet connection, or simply parents buying their children another toy for X-Mas, or whatever holidays their cults acknowledge.

Gaming used to be about: 1) Simulation, 2) Entertainment.

People with engineering backgrounds used to Create Games; now think of it as a conveyor belt similar to "* Idol", where paint artists (often showmen) assemble another roller-coaster.

Although, there are still great games around: Mass Effect 1 & 2 - not for it's gameplay, but for it's story, and sometimes with deep philosophical meaning reduced to a 2-3 sentence thought, so that the general population can delve into it, without being distracted. If the story in Mass Effect, or probably any Sci-Fi book, that touches the Humanity as a space-faring species with the Knowledge that Nationalities wasn't a great idea after all, isn't the story that ultimately awaits people living on this planet, I do not know what is.

If you consider yourselves consumers, be ready to be treated like cattle; there's only downhill from there.

P.S. Congratulations to John Carmack on the success of Armadillo Aerospace enterprise in NASA's project and long overdue "Lifetime achievement award". (Link (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/carmack-to-receive-lifetime-achievement-award))

[Celery]

They say Silent Hunter 5 has been cracked. GG Ubisoft? :rolleyes:

[vilas]

such copy protection is stupidity
if buy something - i do it cause i am honest, not cause i cannot download

such action only make enemy to "official" version

cause when i buy electronic product (soft, music) i want use it simply

i remember once stupid CD protection, that music CD not played in CD-roms, after every 30 seconds there was 1 second pause
it was horrible
my old hi-fi broken, i used to wear disc-man (before MP3) and i couldn't listen this record
it was stupid situation that you bought music disc and need to download it from internet to listen to it
cause my hi-fi system is :
my PC + amplifier + speakers
so when CD was protected - i couldn't listen to music that i bought

second example:
i bought once upon a time dictionary (Polish-English)
costed me a lot of money then etc.
i tried to install and message appeared "to unlock functions post letter to adress ... bla bla bla"
i was so mad "wtf, i wanna use it !!!!!!!!!!!!!"
i received letter from company with the code
i entered code, i could use dictionary
few weeks later i need to change VGA, "hardware code" changed, dictionary requested another code from producer
i wrote another letter and they interrogate me "why you need new code?"
i was so pissed off
my friend laughed at me "man , i downloaded this dictionary from torrent and all works well without any letters, codes etc."

such "security" kills "legal users" cause we no more buy such soft if it is "trouble making"
when i pay for pizza - i wanna get it in hand and simply eat, without waiting for code, registration, checking
when i pay for shoes - i put them on leg and walk, without waiting for code, registration, checking
when i buy game - i wanna play it, not register, send letters, enter another codes, and being under permanent control
i have poor internet developer, my connection breaks sometimes in 30 minutes, so ???
i couldn't play such game if my connection will broke

such "protection" is only demotivating to buy such "product"

protections of soft only hit in legal user - who bought it
illegal users always have cracked versions that work without problems
crackers are best coders and making another "protection" won't stop them, cause they are the best and it only will hurt "those who bought it in shop"
and will be another reason for pirate users, cause they will be laughing at those who bought "hahaha, he must send letter, he must do many actions, he must wait for answer code, he must wait for letter - me not" will say such guy

cause if normal lazy person would have to choose:
- download and USE (enjoy)
OR
- pay money, enter codes, register, wait for codes, push disc in rom, have internet connection on good line (no radio connection when weather is ugly) in future requesting another codes cause you changed machine (PC) ?
...than... ? what is "best" choice ? some developers not see this and they make pirates themselves

if pay for pizza - i simply eat it , i don't wan man in restaurant "sir enter code, sir send letter and wait for answer with code, sir, put pizza on plate cause we must check if tomato and mushroom is in proper place, than assistance of waiter is needed, you will be giving code after every pizza part"
i would say f.. you, give me back money and NEVER visit such restaurant again (eventually smashing this pizza in their face)

when i buy game, i wanna install it and PLAY (forget when i put disc, no internet connection, no request answer codes and mails and registrations etc. ), i simply wanna use it like other products aka shoes, pizza, dish, cattle, jacket, jeans, backpack, chair... whatever

if developers will be acting like prescribed example in first post , than ... torrents will be bigger and bigger
cause you want make friends/ friendly customers - if you aim at someone from gun and threaten him by accusations

[Nazul]

Silent Hunter5 and Assasins Creed 2 have been cracked. I dont know when they were released or how long it took to crack them. Maybe theyre(UBI) happy with the "inbetween" time and were able to sell enough.

[vilas]

everything can be cracked, cause crackers are best informaticians or even coders who wrote application and sell it second time
policemen say about "night production" in some companies that produce discs daytime "for developer" and in the night "for Caucasian bazaars"
it is no matter if company protect game or not
cause cracker will break it anyway
but - the more protections - the more pissed off users (like me and music CD and Dictionary examples) who won't choose again "problems"
people simply wanna USE something they bought
building large wall before users will only make pirates growth
basic things must be in brain of those who sell "i must sell easy friendly-user products"
look at digital cameras (not talking about professional cameras aka Canon EOS) market
man buy camera, man pushes one button, man make photo and THAT'S ALL
i cannot imagine that i would have to register, enter codes, wait for letters etc. when i buy camera
if i would have to choose between "take and use" and "take and have problems" i would use first option, only masochist chooses longer and harder way
if i am "honest" and i pay for products - i don't want have "problems" with using it
i have 350 CD with metal music on my shelves, i could download them from torrent right ?
but i haven't done it , although such music CD (except this one example Armia- Pocałunek Mongolskiego Księcia) has no security at all
if i use MP3 player, i buy CD in shop, i convert to MP3
i could download the same files from torrent ? am i sucker ? no i am "honest"
and the same should work to "games"
game costs as 2 music CDs so i see no problem
and crackers will do all "easy to use" < thats why some people prefer torrent
not cause they want "steal", but they want "easy USE" product
not like i had with my goddamn dictionary and letters and "sir, why you need another code?" phone interrogation :/
checking game disc DVD before run - okay, if it must be
but NOT for "internet connection" (cause many people have poor connection), request codes (i wanna use it since first minute after instal), registering (personal data and marketing spam in mail box) etc.
thats why i have Open Office, not MsOffice :]
but there is other issue - my LAW and in many countries too - ALLOW to have ONE copy of disc, in case of "my disc broken"
if game has "disc check before run" - it may happen that disc will be scratched
and my law regulation ALLOWS me to copy this disc for personal safety-backup and copy-protection is against rules
i cannot update some old addons , cause disc was scratched by checking (starforce) and now i cannot buy old game in shop (only newest games are in shop)
and for example it is against my law regulation
also if someone buys such game and suddenly it appears that "without internet connection it won't run" can piss someone , cause disc bought on bazaar from Caucasian-looking man will RUN anywhere and anytime
sometimes choose between "cracked" and "legal" version is "buy CD for 50 PLN or buy from Russian-speaking on bazaar for 20 PLN"
30 PLN is not big difference, but if lad from my street has choice "working version" or "not working" , you think he will choose "harder way" ?
it is stupid situation that you BUY in shop CD music and next day... you must download it from torrent to listen to it
is it not stupid situation that you BOUGHT in shop software and... you must get another version to use it and your "legal copy" lie on shelf not used, cause "requires many letters, request codes" ?
is it not stupid to PAY for something and download it from torrent to be able to use it , cause legal version version from shop simply not work ?
when i told my friend about problems that i had with English-Polish dictionary i bought (he wanted to buy the same) , he resigned from buying, cause normal man want "use it", not "visit post office three times"
if i pay for game, i wanna put disc into rom, install and throw disc away to box in the bottom shelf and play
i bought 350 discs with music, i could downloaded them from torrent
i simply converted them into MP3 for personal use, all discs stand on shelf and i listen from PC
i could have the same files for free
so it is not important "how you protect" electronic bits, cause it comes from "internal honesty or money possibility" what you use
my 349 discs (except this one) were not protected at all , and my friend also bought them, cause he also believes that musician deserve money for his job
we (my and my friends) have mostly the same discs, we could exchange and noone would stop us
no cd-protection is needed when you are "honest", but we both bought the same music discs
and none cd-protection will help when cracker is professional, cause crackers/hackers are the best coders, they are coding/programing elite and protection only hits in "those who bought it", i doubt there is single software in the world that was not hacked
i doubt that any copy protection prevented pirates
to prevent and fight pirates - you must fight third-world placed severs with uploaded torrents, not fight end-user that payed for product
developer can built-in 100 types of protection and ... someone who use torrent will have it next day without all those shits disturbing gameplay and consuming CPU
but guy who bought it will be crying and in effect... next day he may think "well , maybe i should also use torrent"
if Ubisoft don't understand this - they are building wall against themselves
i doub't there is positive effect connection relation between "how much game is protected" and "how many percent has it from torrent"
in time when you can have 10 MB internet connection in house and P2P it is less important
it was important when people were copying for neighbor and had 256kb connection 6 years ago
but even back then it was better for developer , cause "when 2 guys bought 1 game and copy themselves" than 1 copy is SOLD
if game is "pain-in-the-ass protected" than such 2 teenagers buy ZERO copies, they'd prefer torrent
some game developers (Ubisoft in this case) behave irrational and schizophrenic, like army that bombs another country and asks "why people are against us and more fighters appear and shoot to us"
they both see no connections between action-reaction rule, third Newton rule "every action has reaction"
i think basic IQ was lacking in some brains in this case
look at BIS example - first disc check , later no-cd patch and we are all satisfied with this fact
why we buy Arma ? cause we respect and love BIS, not because we are under the gun of 10 types of protections
if i would have to pay 100 USD for Arma2 to BIS i would do it with pleasure cause i see it worthy, Ubisoft see potential customer as thief and it is not good from customers point of view
if shop keeper would treat me as thief and would be doing personal research on me, i would never visit such shop :)

[Deadfast]

Vilas, just as I started thinking you have learned your lesson you post yet another wall of text.

Please, for the love of god, use proper sentences with capital letters at the start and periods at the end.

[Spooky Lynx]

Hmm... Maybe I am mistaken, but now I feel that game devs and publishers think mostly about profit but not about the game quality. It looks like they think the only way to raise their efforts is to make another kind of DRM. FAIL. Make really top-quality games and gamers will praise you by bying thousands of its copies. Game development is not the best way to become wealthy. It should be art but not industry. And the source of profit should be the quality of product but not another DRM trying to decrease piracy level.
Heh, steam is mentioned... I can say tons of rude words to its developers:mad: I'm not against online activation, but I'm absolutely against inability to play SP Half-Life and its mods without some unknown updates and often just without internet connection!

[vilas]

Spooky Lynx - but it was always "business" not "underground punk-rock band hobby" :)
the only problem is "if you as customer can use it without problems"
2 examples i show (CD and Dictionary) show that "legal version may be pain in the ass and crack/torrent will be user friendly"
it is PROBLEM, cause LEGAL version should work better and without problems, without activation codes, internet etc.
those developers make problems themselves and now act surprised
it really shows me one old Polish joke:
- stupid farmer sit on tree branch and using saw cuts it from trunk, tourist look at stupid farmer and say "man, you will fall"
and farmer fallen
"fortune-teller or what ?"
----
it is the same, they protect more and more soft against USER / customer and they... are surprised that people choose torrent version that "works since first minute" ?
like soldiers of one country fire to other country citizens and are surprised that opposition and number of guerrilla rises and say "we started to get rid of few hundreds of terrorists and now each day there is more and more of them"
for someone who has BRAIN it is "natural consequence" - eye for an eye
third Newton rule - every action has reaction

[Spooky Lynx]

Spooky Lynx - but it was always "business" not "underground punk-rock band hobby" :)
the only problem is "if you as customer can use it without problems"
2 examples i show (CD and Dictionary) show that "legal version may be pain in the ass and crack/torrent will be user friendly"
it is PROBLEM, cause LEGAL version should work better and without problems, without activation codes, internet etc.
those developers make problems themselves and now act surprised
it really shows me one old Polish joke:
- stupid farmer sit on tree branch and using saw cuts it from trunk, tourist look at stupid farmer and say "man, you will fall"
and farmer fallen
"fortune-teller or what ?"
----
it is the same, they protect more and more soft against USER / customer and they... are surprised that people choose torrent version that "works since first minute" ?
like soldiers of one country fire to other country citizens and are surprised that opposition and number of guerrilla rises and say "we started to get rid of few hundreds of terrorists and now each day there is more and more of them"
for someone who has BRAIN it is "natural consequence" - eye for an eye
third Newton rule - every action has reaction
I can understand gamedevs and publishers caring about protection of their rights. Friendly speaking, they are violated often. But when they care mostly about their rights but not about the quality of their product - it will only rise amounts of cracked games. And paying so much attention to different DRM systems they don't care about providing demo versions to all games before its releases. So customer would try any game he wants before spending his/her money. And now there is a kind of dishonesty in "game creators - cusomers" relations, when customer can be punished for cracking or using cracked product, but game creator at the same time may not give any demo versions of their products. Even if the customer can not return the game if he is not satisfied with it. Nearest example - OFPDR.

[vilas]

were my ca. 350 music CD protected ?
no, i bought them because of "honesty"
and no protection or lack of protection make someone honest or not
i had one CD protected and i had to download it , no matter that i payed for legal CD, but it was not functioning on my HiFi
it is sick situation when you BUY in shop CD and... it not works in your CD player , and if you wanna hear to the music, you have no choice than torrent, cause legal version is "protected" from user , it is surrealistic and sick situation that should not appear
CD should play in ALL players you may have in home, car, portable etc.
nowadays all CD i buy have even files titles, so when you make MP3 from it, it has titles of songs , no protection

they don't care about providing demo versions to all games before its releases.
cause when they would provide demo than it may appear that game is ... shit (for people like we, who played many years the best game in the world - OFP1 )
so they don't do it , like our politicians say A before election and B when are elected, if our politicians would show their "regulations" before voting, they would never been elected
the same to the "money making" and business
remember that your "level of demand" is too big, cause you expect other developers to be BIS ;)
so for people like us many thing can be "shit", cause we compare products to level of Arma2, OFP1, MaxPayne1 etc (old games had atmosphere, new have graphics)
Spooky Lynx - you cannot start judging other digital cameras owning Canon EOS 1D Mark III yourself ;) cause then everything will be shit
we started from very high level like OFP1, RTCW, Max Payne ... it is hard to reach this level for other developers
probably gaming industry make 100 games every year
but when you look at past 10 years you can count 5-7 titles that you see as "good" ;)
for me MOHAA was better than all CoDs

[maturin]

They should do it Soviet style and abolish intellectual property, right Vilas? :D

[vilas]

it looks like you have basic problem with understand
"intellectual property" has nothing to "user-friendly" functioning of product, i gave examples of jacket, pizza, camera, music etc. - all are products
if i pay and buy product than it simply should work without problems and annoying "register, wait for code, enter another code, put disc again, check connection" etc.
CD game costs 3 times less than US EWCS parka, but when i buy water proof jacket, noone expect me to register, enter code before using and have internet connection when it is raining
if you not understand connection between "user friendly" factor and torrents than i feel sorry for you :]
the more "protections", the more pissed off users that are angry cause "i simply cannot install an play"
person who bought product - expect it to work
and intellectual property is in fact that you pay for it respecting creators
strange way of thinking you have if you think that "user friendly software is equal lack of intellectual property"
cause than it would mean "software that requires calling to company, sending letters by post before start, and armed security behind you back is best software"
when you go to cinema to watch movie, does anyone require any codes , letters, calls , activations ?
no, so it means that person who BOUGHT ticket abolished intellectual property ?
or if i bought 350 CD with music, and they have no protections at all , it means i not respect musicians cause i don't push activation , codes, letters before listening to the music ?
intellectual property is law to have profits from things that person made, it is not equal "prevent from using on PC without internet connection", cause next day another idiot will require that user must call company before he start game, to get "60 minutes unlock code"
intellectual property is law that allows person to sue someone who stole his work
it is not about "preventing before use by someone who bought it"

[AndresCL]

Too bad it is too hard for some pepole to just NOT buy the game. But pepole keep buying the damn games no matter how crappy or dumbed down it is. Hell, it happened with MW2. Even tho MW1 had better characteristics such as dedicated server support and anti-cheat, or now with BC2 that only has a maximum of 32 player per server, no planes, no mods, no server files even tho BF2 had all of those and more, pepole keep buying them.

It is a fucking shame really, all going to hell because of the average gamer is too stupid to realize they are being screwed over and over again.

Sorry for the rant, is just that, i am seeing this all over the industry. I know you guys can do better than that, i still hold my hopes (At least, on BIS and other companies wich i find good)

[Spooky Lynx]

They should do it Soviet style and abolish intellectual property, right Vilas? :D
It looks like you know nothing about laws and patent system that was in USSR.

[vilas]

It looks like you know nothing about laws and patent system that was in USSR.

and about our stronger food-standards of quality from past and etc. etc.
it is f*** how their minds are fed by Reagan propaganda about our live here in past
moreover, it also weird how some people mess intellectual property and "user-friendly" product easy and ready to use

[Spooky Lynx]

The best DRM is the quality of product :) To be honest, for the first time I played pirated Half-Life 2. But when I tried and tasted it, I bought steam version. And did the same with all Episodes, CS:S and DoD:S. And will buy only licensed cpoy of Episode 3.
Authorities care about gamedevs' and publishers' right, intellectual property and income. But who cares about customer's right of receiving full info about the any game he wants or right to get back his money if he is not satisfied with the game?

[STALKERGB]

Can't remember exactly who it was, I think it was Brad Wardell of Stardock, he released Sins of a Solar Empire without any real copy protection, I believe he did the same with DemiGod. And although the was alot of pirating Brad believes its that him and his team need to make a better game.

His reasoning is that if you make a good enough game, people will be more than happy to pay for it.

I think he is completely right about that, I don't mind simple copy protection but it has got completely out of hand. I bough Silent Hunter 5 rather than pirating it, and no matter how good I feel the game is, there is that bitter taste knowing you have had to bend over backwards just so UBISOFT are certain you are not a pirate.

I think its a better idea to reward people when they buy a game (like extra content if you bought it in a shop) rather than treat them as criminals.

As has been said. You name it, they have cracked it.

[Krycek]

Can't remember exactly who it was, I think it was Brad Wardell of Stardock, he released Sins of a Solar Empire without any real copy protection, I believe he did the same with DemiGod. And although the was alot of pirating Brad believes its that him and his team need to make a better game.

His reasoning is that if you make a good enough game, people will be more than happy to pay for it.

I think he is completely right about that, I don't mind simple copy protection but it has got completely out of hand.

I'll never agree with Ubisoft new fuhrer drm,but Sins of a Solar Empire it's a pretty bad example that retards will still pirate in large numbers anything they can get(i'm refering especially about that category of people who don't even buy the game if they're enjoying their pirate version).

Regarding the new drm I've been reading the sites and they say while playing the game is downloading the next missions and so on,could anyone confirm?
If it's true then WTF am I paying for??If my net is slower then what will the game tell me "hold on buddy you can't pass that door,we're still downloading"??

[Deadfast]

People who only pirate games will pirate them DRM or not.

AC2 stores your saves online, it doesn't download any levels or anything.

[STALKERGB]

I'll never agree with Ubisoft new fuhrer drm,but Sins of a Solar Empire it's a pretty bad example that retards will still pirate in large numbers anything they can get(i'm refering especially about that category of people who don't even buy the game if they're enjoying their pirate version).

Regarding the new drm I've been reading the sites and they say while playing the game is downloading the next missions and so on,could anyone confirm?
If it's true then WTF am I paying for??If my net is slower then what will the game tell me "hold on buddy you can't pass that door,we're still downloading"??

The main point about startdock was that, the lack of DRM didn't see a huge increase in pirating compared to a game that had DRM. Sins sold over 500,000 copies which is massive seeing as the game only cost about a $1,000,000 (or less than). Essentially its better to reward the legal customers than treat them as thieves.

And I can't say I have run into SH5 waiting for it to DL anything, just does you savegames I think.

[vilas]

the lack of DRM didn't see a huge increase in pirating compared to a game that had DRM.
yes, cause cracked versions are on torrents... so ... it is not a difference if it has protection or not
but "user-friendly" issue is important , protection should not harm using soft
example = BIS , first we had disc-check, we have "huge dispersion" on pirated version
it is RIGHT protection, BIS not require registration, still internet connection, no damn codes to do something etc.
i cannot understand those who treat user / customer as thief - cause HE PAYED FOR DISC
and on torrent there is crack ALWAYS that not requires ANY actions (register, answer codes, internet connection) from user
so pirate - never has problems as those who bought have (user-friendly factor)
i would say that lack of this can increase sales, i know it sounds surprising but...
if all is "very protected" than group of friends choose "torrent" version
if it is not so secured than... 3 friends can buy 1 legal copy and company sold 1 disc (in poor countries)
it is for them cheaper and better than waiting few days and get virus, trojan instead or broken version (in case if they have slow internet connection in such countries)
of course there are pathological downloaders, but as said above - they are not to be stopped by any kind of protection, cause every torrent includes crack that erases all kind of protection - it is specially pathetic in rich countries where people have a lot of money and game for them is very small financial effort
i can understand pirating in countries where people earn very small money, i cannot understand it in countries where they have few cars

[NoRailgunner]

Simple solution - don't buy, don't play and don't advertise such "user-friendly" products. For sure people can live without such protections and enjoy other/older games as well. Don't follow the Pied Piper's of such companies. :)

[vilas]

"don't play" is not right advice, cause sometimes something is cool but "protected from legal user"
for example Arma1 in Polish edition had worst version of StarForce, while other versions had other securing, cause it was chosen by country wholesaler , not BIS themselves
till BIS made non-disc patch, it was horror to start Arma1
so "don't play" advice would mean for example "don't play Arma1 legal version bought in shop" cause Polish printer decided to "secure it" other way than people in other countries had
to start Arma 1 (before BIS patch) i had to restart game or Oxygen 8-14 times
can you imagine in 2007 live without Arma ?

[Bulldogs]

UK, March 8, 2010 - Ubisoft's DRM servers were overloaded over the weekend, rendering the recently released PC version of Assassin's Creed II unplayable for many legitamate owners of the game.

In an attempt to combat piracy, Ubisoft announced an extreme method of DRM whereby games required a constant internet connection.

Assassin's Creed II, released last week, was the one of the first games to support the policy, and its first weekend has been plagued by server issues with posters on the official forums telling of connection outages.

"Due to exceptional demand, we are currently experiencing difficulties with the Online Service Platform," said an official response on the forums, "This does not affect customers who are currently playing, but customers attempting to start a game may experience difficulty in accessing our servers. We are currently working to resolve this issue and apologize for any inconvenience."


Source : http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/107/1075124p1.html

Like you couldn't see that coming.

[vilas]

hardcore user unfriendly edition ;)

[DM]

Source : http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/107/1075124p1.html

Like you couldn't see that coming.

Hah, unsurprising.

Hopefully it can make its way into the more mainstream press so that a bit more noise can be made about this crappy swing in obtrusive DRM.

[DMarkwick]

Source : http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/107/1075124p1.html

Like you couldn't see that coming.

How absolutely pathetically inevitable :D

Of course there will be absolutely no chance of the publishers thinking that it was a poor idea. No such admission would ever occur to them. 2 things spring to mind:
1. They'll see it as a success of the DRM that so many people are trying to register.
2. They've got the money. The purchasing monkeys can wait for a fix.

[Zipper5]

The least Ubisoft could have done with their ridiculous new DRM measures is make sure they actually work properly. That just exposes the truth - it's not about protecting their product, they just don't care about their customers. Their eyes only see a big $ sign, or 3.

[vilas]

they see $ ?
sorry, but what is difficulty to get cracked version that not has any DRM ?
i doubt there is a problem, probably on Torrents there is such version, usually such version appears in 2-3 days
so maybe their DRM will cause people refuse game and download torrent instead ?
if my friend would told me "man, i bought game, i cannot start it cause server has no place to enter you and you cannot launch game" than what else is left than torrent to have "working version" ?
i think Ubisoft is biggest argument for pirates, they can say now "look, men payed money and cannot start application cause servers not allow them"
DRM is suicidal own goal

[BangTail]

Source : http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/107/1075124p1.html

Like you couldn't see that coming.

They're trying to blame it on a DOS attack.

No matter what the reason, it's just proof positive that their idiotic protection doesn't work and only serves to inconvenience paying customers.

[Daddl]

The alternative is always just not to play the game - or if you bought it already, simply try to return it as defective. A single player game that can't be played offline and which only can be played as long as the game company keeps it's drm servers running IS broken (anyone remember the famous M$ music drm?). Oh, and if they didn't advertise this defect very clearly on the packaging I'd say in the EU at least you should have the law on your side when you try to return it (same as with DRM music cds).

Of course (for now - they'll start that soon enough, too) there are still the console versions which are free of this draconian drm variant - if that is an aceptable alternative for you and such a version exists. I guess with a game like Assasins Creed II that should be viable, but Silent Hunter 5 and a few other games simply don't exists on consoles - or might be suited much better for the pc.

[Zipper5]

I've already played (and loved) Assassin's Creed II on the PS3. I'd have loved to have played it on the PC, but it's simply against my principles to buy a game with such a ridiculous form of DRM. If I ever feel the need to play AC2 again, I'll play it on my PS3.

Is Splinter Cell: Conviction coming out on the PC? I read that it was a 360 exclusive. If it does, and it also comes out on the PS3, and it also includes this DRM, I'll buy it for the PS3.

It's a shame that Ubisoft has seen fit to do this. They do make some pretty great games. Well, whoever their developer branches are do.

[BangTail]

Is Splinter Cell: Conviction coming out on the PC? I read that it was a 360 exclusive. If it does, and it also comes out on the PS3, and it also includes this DRM, I'll buy it for the PS3.


It's coming for the PC and the DRM BS has been confirmed as well IIRC.

Oh, and apparently there is another DOS attack (AKA Ubishaft sucks).

http://twitter.com/Ubisoft/statuses/10184920360

[4 IN 1]

Good! Now that the very last game that i might buy from UterBullshIt is crippled by the bullshiting DRM, I am going to save a few more bucks for a new rig

[Spooky Lynx]

The alternative is always just not to play the game - or if you bought it already, simply try to return it as defective.
I don't know EU or US laws which regulate this part of trade, but in my country you can return such game only if the disk is damaged while being transported to the shop or in it. If it has physical damage. In the other ways (bugs, poor models/textures/storyline) you have no ability to return money. So if you prove that disk is damaged not by you - the shop will return its cost.

[Hans Ludwig]

Gabe Newell on DRM. He begins at this subject around 5:00.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pevh2Q0hg&NR=1

Ubisoft DRM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkTZTzsYoZs

[Baff1]

I don't know EU or US laws which regulate this part of trade, but in my country you can return such game only if the disk is damaged while being transported to the shop or in it. If it has physical damage. In the other ways (bugs, poor models/textures/storyline) you have no ability to return money. So if you prove that disk is damaged not by you - the shop will return its cost.

I bet if you stop by the hardware store and buy a big axe first they will refund you.

Another good one is to bring a small child and constantly pinch it's bum so it is screaming the whole time.
In the end they will just want to get rid of you whatever the cost.

[BangTail]

Unfortunately , I'd expect a lot more of this shitbird DRM in the future. The fact is that it is holding as AC2 remains unbroken and from what I've read at least, SH5's protection was never fully circumvented.

I've also read that C&C4 will be using the same nonsense. TBH, I will stand by my previous resolution and I will not buy anything that features this type of protection. The sad fact is that for every 5 people who say that, 4 of them buy it anyway.

I noticed that AC2 is number 4 on Steam's Top sellers list, that's not because no one is buying it.

[Daddl]

I don't know EU or US laws which regulate this part of trade, but in my country you can return such game only if the disk is damaged while being transported to the shop or in it. If it has physical damage. In the other ways (bugs, poor models/textures/storyline) you have no ability to return money. So if you prove that disk is damaged not by you - the shop will return its cost.Actually if there is no clear sign on the packaging that the game requires an internet connection while playing you you stand (at least in Germany - and I bet in the US, too) a VERY good chance to get a refund (and win a class-action suit in the States).

[Hans Ludwig]

Actually if there is no clear sign on the packaging that the game requires an internet connection while playing you you stand (at least in Germany - and I bet in the US, too) a VERY good chance to get a refund (and win a class-action suit in the States).

lol No attorney goes to federal court using the FDCPA. I would say something on the lines of 90 percent of consumer/commercial complaints are handled in state courts. And depending which state you go to court, you might have a better chance at winning, depending on if the state is liberal or conservative.

And why would an attorney take a company to court over a consumer buying a copy of a game just to find out it had DRM? The best the law firm representing you could get out of this is compensatory damages, which comes with it no attorney's fees. This means you would be paying the attorney $75, $100, $1,000 dollars an hour (the better the attorney, the higher his hourly pay is) to do whatever work he does for you.

Now that I said that, just don't buy from a company that uses DRM. It's just that simple.

[DM]

The sad fact is that for every 5 people who say that, 4 of them buy it anyway.

I noticed that AC2 is number 4 on Steam's Top sellers list, that's not because no one is buying it.

Kinda like the MW2 boycott groups, where ~80% of the group members were listed as "Currently Playing: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" :j:

[vilas]

Kinda like the MW2 boycott groups, where ~80% of the group members were listed as "Currently Playing: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" :j:
cause it is kid-mind
how kid play seek-hide ?
he closes eyes by hand and think noone see them

[DM]

cause it is kid-mind

Which is even more funny, considering the game is rated 18+ :j:

[NeMeSiS]

Which is even more funny, considering the game is rated 18+ :j:

Like that ever bothered someone. ;)

[BangTail]

I did mention it before but I can now confirm that C&C 4 is using some form of this crap as well.


PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION, EA ACCOUNT, REGISTRATION WITH ENCLOSED SERIAL CODE AND ACCEPTANCE OF END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT REQUIRED TO PLAY. SOFTWARE REGISTRATION IS LIMITED TO ONE EA ACCOUNT PER SERIAL CODE AND IS NON-TRANSFERABLE. YOU MUST BE 13+ TO REGISTER FOR AN EA ACCOUNT. EULA, EA ONLINE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND FEATURE UPDATES CAN BE FOUND AT WWW.EA.COM. EA MAY PROVIDE CERTAIN INCREMENTAL CONTENT AND/OR UPDATES FOR NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE, IF AND WHEN AVAILABLE. EA MAY RETIRE ONLINE FEATURES AFTER 30 DAYS NOTICE POSTED ON WWW.EA.COM.

[vilas]

Which is even more funny, considering the game is rated 18+ :j:

anyone is checking ID card when selling game ?

i know people that are 20-25 , not have work and ... have child
so when you say about "ignore someone" "currently playing something"
than imagine 23 years old man and woman who decide to have child and noone has job
i know such lads in my neighborhood

over 18 do not mean IQ over 100 and keeping promises and having honor

[Deadfast]

anyone is checking ID card when selling game ?

Very high-pitched voice: "But I totally am 18!"


You really don't need an ID to see that someone is 14 ;)

[maionaze]

LOL , I went to a store to check out the price for AS 2 , and the clerk suggested that I should look for something else to "buy" :)) . Ubi... Ubi...

[Sniperwolf572]

Apparently some people woke up to the following sight this morning.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5971/fuykpd.th.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/fuykpd.jpg/)

[DM]

Apparently some people woke up to the following sight this morning.

[IMG]http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5971/fuykpd.th.jpg[IMG] (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/fuykpd.jpg/)

Permission to lol?

[Mr Burns]

Apparently some people woke up to the following sight this morning.

http://img682.imageshack.us/i/fuykpd.jpg/

hahahahaha - made my day :D
The old guard coming to the rescue!
Still no reason to get either SH5 or AC2, but that pic alone gave the whole dilemma around new drm´s and ubi stalling a once great series at least something to smile about.

[Fincuan]

Looks like a photoshop to me. That very same pic has been circulating around different forums for a while now. If the servers were actually hacked one would think more than one out of the thousands of visitors would grab a screenshot.

The site was indeed down a few days ago and the announcement looked exactly like the one in the pic, with the "slight" difference that the text said something about it being down for maintenance. The actual cause is rumored to be a DDOS-attack.

[Barely-injured]

I guess when it comes to the point where people like me who don't even care about these games in the first place, are actually rooting for the pirates, and hoping that they will crack this system soon. I guess it goes to show that this system has utterly failed.

Really, the only sense of "guilt" that I get from saying such a thing in a public place is that I hope I am not breaking this forum's rules and that's it !!

[Krycek]

You know if this shit spreads around and all the companies starts using this DRM I'm asking myself why should I even bother to upgrade anymore.I have money for upgrades(not top of the line) but why should I invest in something where you don't play games when you want it,but only when they want it.

I have other hobbies and although I enjoy pc gaming it's not like I'm a crack addict and can't stand without it.
Besides I have quite of collection of games and always can play those if worse comes to worst.

[ChiefRedCloud]

I'm not smart enough to crack thisor any other game but in principle all you have to do is fool the game/program into thinking it's online. And I too would bet money someone has or will crack this.

As for the game, well I support UBI in their edevour to protect their property. I do NOT however like or agree with this method. For all the reasons stated above.

I did however buy the game and to be honest with you it isn't as good (so far) as the first. I hope I'm ok in critiqueing the game as well as it's unorthidox copyright scheme.

Well it isn't like I didn't know it was a console port (as the first one was). But seriously, their is little reference to the PC controls within the game itself. Neaningless icons or, wait for it, console keys, are used. Now in all fairness if you go to the disk and browse the manual you'll find key referances. That's right no paper manual and yu pay $10 dollars more for the game. Economic times I guess.

No tutorial, aka sparing rings to bring yourself up to speed on fighting. Good luck and may your patience hold out as you Re-Learn everytihing.

Now back to the copy right scheme. I tried to get on this past Sunday and was presented with "you gave the Wrong Password" Which I knew I hadn't. So I tried again. This time "You need an Internet Connection to play" I had internet and still did. I tried to go to the UBI web sight and came up on a page that stated the sight was "DOWN for maintenace".

And this IS why I could NOT play THIS single player game.

So in 5000 words or more I have said what most of you have siad in very few. Basically, this idea really, really sucks.

[Hans Ludwig]

Battlefield: Bad Company 2 PC Patched; SecuROM DRM Removed from Steam Version

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62826

[Zipper5]

DICE just keeps capitalizing on other developers'/publishers' idiotic mistakes. More power to them! :D

[Bulldogs]

And I too would bet money someone has or will crack this.

Yep. My sources tell me it's already been done. Won't get into any more detail than that.

[Heatseeker]

Gabe Newell on DRM. He begins at this subject around 5:00.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pevh2Q0hg&NR=1


What an hipocrite.. if he relied solely on their own developments to stay in business i bet he wouldnt go around saying what people want to hear just to promote their distribution services..

[NoRailgunner]

CVG news article is saying that even Steam service in UK dont like to offer such DRM products - here you go: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=239684
Just curious if EA is going to try a similar way with their upcoming products?

[Krycek]

Just curious if EA is going to try a similar way with their upcoming products?

Well they didn't take long http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/03/18/ea_follows_ubisoft_will_sell_titles_with_always_on_drm (not sure how reliable is that source)
Damn my future gaming purchases keeps shrinking,Crysis 2,ME3 and that unnanounced Syndicate game.I could care less about the 1000 Sims&Nfs sequels.I truly hope this will bite them in the ass.

You know I would fully agree with this crap if they would remove it after 6 months max but that not gonna happen.

[Bulldogs]

I was talking to the guys at my local EB and they said that they've had to give refunds on most of the Assassins Creed 2 copies they sold due to faulty software.

Apparently there's a flaw in the system that if you get a big enough lag spike (which is every 5 mins for most Aussies, not enough to be noticeable normally but enough to interrupt the connection to the servers), you don't get disconnected, instead the game re-establishes the connection to the servers which takes a few seconds, in which time the game glitches.

The glitches vary but usually you'll end up stuck in a wall, or floating, or invisible. There's no autocorrection in the game or software so once it starts glitching you have to restart the game. On a good day you could play for 30 mins, but most of the time you're lucky to get 10 mins of play without a restart.

I think it mainly only effects people a good distance from their local exchange but it's still pretty unacceptable.

[Heatseeker]

CVG news article is saying that even Steam service in UK dont like to offer such DRM products - here you go: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=239684
Just curious if EA is going to try a similar way with their upcoming products?

Thats just more crap, someone else has exclusive distribution for ubisoft in the UK, something like that.. you really think Valve doesnt want to distribute ubi's titles in the UK?

http://www.develop-online.net/news/34148/GDC-DRM-damages-the-value-of-games-says-Newell

Newell exploits an oportunity to promote himself and the great service Steam provides to gamers (cough..), claiming that the DRM diminishes the value of the game, yet its available on steam (wich is another DRM itself) for 49.99, twice the price of a retail copy available on amazon (minus shipping ofcourse).

As for this DRM, unfortunetly there are problems with the servers but once they solve the problems it doesnt sound that bad to me..

[IronTrooper]

Here's a nice discussion about this kind of DRM used in Rise of Flight:
http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?showtopic=28300
You'll see how some people imagine the future of gaming (computers being nothing but internet terminals).

[Mr Burns]

Here's a nice discussion about this kind of DRM used in Rise of Flight:
http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?showtopic=28300
You'll see how some people imagine the future of gaming (computers being nothing but internet terminals).

In regards to RoF i´ve found this particular post by guod at simHQ rather terrifiying: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2918878/two_cents.html#Post2918878.
And @<hidden>: It´s gonna happen. simHQ, again, has a topic somehwere describing how the new MS Office beta fully depends on cloud computing.


As a wise man once said: This sucks more than anything that has ever sucked before.

[Gen_Protection]

Not alone on this but just pointed out to Ubi that having to be online for Sp is insulting for longterm paying customer. No idea how many games I have registered on their reg servers over the years.... a lot hmmm 20+ over the years I would guess. Every single one was registered. Same email, same name, but nope my track record is ignored, registering was just for advertising trawling I guess. Despite spending more with them than I would admit to my wife ;) I guess to them I am suddenly going to become a pirate.

Unlike others who may purchase after DRM removed, after how they treat me (a longterm repeat and honest paying customer) as a would-be pirate, I will NOT be buying even if they remove DRM in future, they just utterly blew it for me and I told em so. Totally insulted. Bye bye SH5 and Settlers7, and Bye Bye Ubi permanent.:mad:

When British Telecom had monopoly in UK they always say Hey we are great value, our costs are very very high. When 1st competition arrived at half the price, they matched price... instantly...miraculous. it continues to this day 30 years later. And 30 years later I will still never be British telecom customer because they ripped me off. 30 years later they STILL have adverts on vans saying come back to BT (so I am not alone and they know it). LOL if I live on desert island with only 1 phone company and it was BT I would have no Phone on principal! This is where Ubi is going too I believe. Treat customers with enough contempt and eventually they WILL have had enough. That's where I am at. Supply and demand/ freemarket I accept but it's 2 way street and excessive is unbalanced relationship= divorce

No aversion to online registering, no aversion to needing Dvd in PC if mp online(like Arma2) against piracy, against costing software companies hard earned profit and maybe longterm future, but I am NOT going to be treated as guilty before proven innocent. Bad move! And dont give me that you can save online load anywhere guff, so what I have a usb stick.... phew that was hard..NOT

It made me smile when a response on Ubi forum said very small % find it objectionable.... Whilst watching new people sign up to their forum for just 1 reason and one message... to state their disgust and note they 1 had cancelled pre-orders (varifiable) 2 they would not consider purchase anymore.3 they had been looking forward to specific titles and had the prev titles in the various series. Also raised was that most people register with forums only if they have a problem with app.... Hmmm I guess they haven't seen this forum then :).

It's interesting because given the track record of BIS over the years it's unlikely I would have felt THIS strong a reaction to the same scenario (don't get ideas BIS :) ) if it had have been BIS pulling this "stunt". Hmmm so I ask my self why?.. interesting that... any comments on that one?

Apols for long post this stuff just gets me wound up to be treated like this.

Good news, so now I have the ££ for OA lol..... bring it on guys I have every confidence in ya :)

Gen

[Flash Thunder]

Vote with your money people, just dont buy the games that support this kind of monstrocity.

[Tonci87]

The customer needs to grow up, stop giving money to companies like this, you have Freedom of Choice

[TangoRomeo]

It made me smile when a response on Ubi forum said very small % find it objectionable

With the wall of Flak coming at them, i guess you could have expected nothing less than their PR machine being kicked into gear, coming up with some self-righteous PR babble. The sad thing is, the PC games market has grown rather insignificant to the big companies producing AAA titles, to have a major impact on the revenue generated. In shows in the ignorance displayed towards the customer. From reading PR statements and browsing corporate forums one could arrive the conclusion, that not buying their PC titles anymore would rather result in them abandoning the market altogether, before stepping on the brakes considering consumer feedback. They want to make me believe there is no option, there always is. Hopefully this will be a chance for smaller companies, who exercise better business ethics, to step up the plate and deliver.

[Hans Ludwig]

Hopefully this will be a chance for smaller companies, who exercise better business ethics, to step up the plate and deliver.

As long as the market is allowed to work without government interference, there will always be someone or some company that will supply a need in the PC community.

[MrBump]

Wow just looking at the Settlers 7 forum and there's a lot of angry gamers having server connection issues esp. in my country Australia. Shame, I really want to get this one...

[nomdeplume]

Agreed... very disappointing. I stopped tracking the series when they tried to make them more like standard RTS games, but this looks to be a return to form. Just a shame they decided to use such a ridiculous DRM scheme.

I really think it's in even worse than StarForce. Hopefully it won't last very long. Really sad for the developers to be hurt by their publishers like this.

[h -]

Didn't see this posted yet:
Ubi is now trying to "bribe" the people who have problems with the DRM and AC2 by offering them via e-mail free downloads of their games Prince of Persia, Heroes Over Europe, Endwar or H.A.W.X...
Source (http://kotaku.com/5502062/ubi-apologizes-for-asaassins-creed-2-pc-downtime-with-free-games) (how reliable I have no idea..)

Apparently SH 5 buyers have been getting similar e-mails.

[MrBump]

Didn't see this posted yet:
Ubi is now trying to "bribe" the people who have problems with the DRM and AC2 by offering them via e-mail free downloads of their games Prince of Persia, Heroes Over Europe, Endwar or H.A.W.X...
Source (http://kotaku.com/5502062/ubi-apologizes-for-asaassins-creed-2-pc-downtime-with-free-games) (how reliable I have no idea..)

Apparently SH 5 buyers have been getting similar e-mails.

Yeah, I saw that in the subsim forum, they were all laughing cause when they clicked the link to get their game the Ubisoft server gave them a server error instead.

[MrBump]

Agreed... very disappointing. I stopped tracking the series when they tried to make them more like standard RTS games, but this looks to be a return to form. Just a shame they decided to use such a ridiculous DRM scheme.

I really think it's in even worse than StarForce. Hopefully it won't last very long. Really sad for the developers to be hurt by their publishers like this.

some kind of guy - have you tried Anno 1404? It's very similar to old Settlers, it's by the same dev...

[nomdeplume]

Yeah I liked Anno 1404 until I played a skirmish and discovered how fast you have to expand and build, and how the naval conflict was handled really irked me too (so many times I lost ships because I didn't realise they were in danger until they'd already been attacked - and by then they're too damaged/slow to be able to evade the enemy).

Not really a fan of fast-paced RTS at all, but it seems really weird to have that kind of fast-paced gameplay in a game that's mostly economy-based. I liked the sedate feeling of earlier Annos and Settlers much better.

Also I really really wish they'd made the trade routes more flexible so you didn't have to channel all your resources to one place. Oh wow, I'm off-topic in an off-topic thread!

[MrBump]

You're right, I think there's a lack of balance in the game, still it's chewing up all my free time. :)

[RaXz]

Yes, I was suprised too, the pace seems way too fast. It's just plopping down buildings as fast as possible, I want to take my time building up my city, make it look more city like. Instead of building only in the most fast and efficient way.

But don't forget the slowdown feature, you don't have to keep that button pressed to slow the game down. If you press F11, you can toggle the slowdown feature on, that way you can play it at an much slower pace. Anno 1404 has an really awesome interface that you can customize, you can even drag the slowdown button to one of the quickbars. :bounce3:

Another nice feature that I just discovered, is that you can drag resources from the warehouse to the informationbar in the upperleft corner, so that you can easily eyeball how many of a certain good you have, can be handy in some situations. :)

And to be ontopic, I really dislike the DRM. I made a downright stupid choice to buy SH5, won't do that again. If I can't resist, I will buy something from Ubisoft at bargainbin prices, but I rather want to avoid them altogether. If I look around on the net, I can see that Ubi's reputation took a massive hit on the PC market. They should just give buying customers more support and services to stimulate the buying of games, now they are just scaring customers away with it's big brother system.

UBI and EA are now in the same boat, both with idiotic DRM's and destroying franchises to appeal their shareholders.

[DM]

I can see that Ubi's reputation took a massive hit on the PC market. They should just give buying customers more support and services to stimulate the buying of games, now they are just scaring customers away with it's big brother system.

UBI and EA are now in the same boat, both with idiotic DRM's and destroying franchises to appeal their shareholders.

Its a double edged sword unfortunately. We stop buying because of retarded DRM, the management of companies like UBI and EA see the dwindling sales as "the death of the platform" and use it as an excuse to switch exclusively to console development.

Fucking sucks that anything decent is currently being driven to destruction by bean-counters (accountants) and do-gooders (the "you cant do that because it might offend someone!" people)

We live in the best of times, and the worst of times. Fingers crossed common sense will prevail...

[Sputnik Monroe]

"ts a double edged sword unfortunately. We stop buying because of retarded DRM, the management of companies like UBI and EA see the dwindling sales as "the death of the platform" and use it as an excuse to switch exclusively to console development."

Personally I'd like to see EA and UBI soft leave the PC publishing scene altogether. I don't buy their games or have any interest in them what so ever to begin with, any I might show a glimmer of interest in will be on the consoles any way. If the two of them and Activision would just go away to consoles it will create a vacuum which independent developers and publishers can fill.. This of course means less shelf space in your local store but who cares. I work in a electronics department for a living, the PC game aisle is just an entire aisle of garbage, I'd sacrifice that for a smaller selection of interesting titles. Quantity is not quality.

I believe it's time for the PC to become a niche market for simulations, strategy and art house games again instead of being the 'also ran' 4th game console after Wii,PS3 and the 360.

[BangTail]

"ts a double edged sword unfortunately. We stop buying because of retarded DRM, the management of companies like UBI and EA see the dwindling sales as "the death of the platform" and use it as an excuse to switch exclusively to console development."

Personally I'd like to see EA and UBI soft leave the PC publishing scene altogether. I don't buy their games or have any interest in them what so ever to begin with, any I might show a glimmer of interest in will be on the consoles any way. If the two of them and Activision would just go away to consoles it will create a vacuum which independent developers and publishers can fill.. This of course means less shelf space in your local store but who cares. I work in a electronics department for a living, the PC game aisle is just an entire aisle of garbage, I'd sacrifice that for a smaller selection of interesting titles. Quantity is not quality.

I believe it's time for the PC to become a niche market for simulations, strategy and art house games again instead of being the 'also ran' 4th game console after Wii,PS3 and the 360.

/QFT

There is no need for Ubisuck et al to make PC games. They are rarely anything more than distinctly average.

If people want to play that dross, they can do so on consoles.

I think you are entirely correct. If these greedy morons would stick to consoles, it would really open the market up for more companies (BIS, GSC etc) who actually bother to design/develop quality games for the more discerning gamer.

[Hans Ludwig]

"ts a double edged sword unfortunately. We stop buying because of retarded DRM, the management of companies like UBI and EA see the dwindling sales as "the death of the platform" and use it as an excuse to switch exclusively to console development."

I can't agree with you more.

[RaXz]

True, it's a double edged sword. But on the other hand I am getting tired of the dominating publishers, it looks like they feel way more important than the devs. It even goes so far that I can't skip the intro of the publisher, but I can with the one from the dev house. It really shows the mentality, it's just like what's happening in the music industry. More and more revolving around moneygrabbing and increasing the profitmargins, and then they ask themselves why there are so many pirates.

I agree with Sputnik Monroe too, it's already heading that way. There come a lot great PC games from both Europe and Russia that aren't dominated by dictating megacorp publishers that want to please as much of targetgroups as possible, preferable the biggest ones. (looks at the downfall of the Rainbow Six series :mad:)