Zeus AI Combat Skills [Archive] - Page 2 - Bohemia Interactive Forums

Protegimus

Dec 22 2009, 20:47

Excellent job indeed Protegimus (and testing team). :)

Do you tweak vehicle AI already as well?
You may wanna try my vehicle DM (http://dev-heaven.net/projects/list_files/kmp-vehicle-dm) as testing ground for that.

It is based on Utes, yet can just moved to any other world.
You can filter the vehicles type AI should spawn in easily.
That way you can create different vehicle scenarios to test your AI in.

Thanks kju, I will certainly have a look at that. Changes so far were limited to how easily crew could be identified.

I don't know if it's any useful, but here is my comparison of 61974 vs 60819, with cfgAiSkill based on Zeus 1.03:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1521586&postcount=2743

fabrizio - this is very useful! Great independent analysis of AI performance. Please continue to post updates on your project development and analysis.

It will be interesting to see if 1.05 brings any changes from beta 61974.

Hopefully BIS can give us 60819 AI performance for dedicated server (perhaps the simplest to implement as I expect this can be changed without affecting player controlled AI) and AI controlled squads.

-- Edit --
Just read Suma's reply to your post above, that speaks for itself, good work.

Is there the need to delete the hotfix PBO with a real Patch?
I think with the Patch we have different class skills in again

No need, as no hotfix.pbo with the full patch.
Different class skills & characteristics would be great. I'll be looking at 1.05 over the break to see if/where improvements are necessary.

Protegimus

walker

Dec 22 2009, 22:18

Hi all

Do not know how this being done either 1.5 or Zeus but the latest little tricks the AI seem to have learned are vehicle shoot and scoot I saw this before with TOW Humvees but now I am seeing it with Vodniks. And Hull down long distance shooting by tracked armor!

Far worse I am seeng sensible husbanding application of these tactics! Targeted hull down take out of strong points and vehicles followed by retirment behind full cover.

I have a test mission called "Simple Battle" on Utes. It is a king of the hill type mission. In order to balance it over time I have moved from a couple of MK19 Humvees to now 6 BTRs.

I play it as a simple team switch single player mission with most of the AI kept reverse slope and 4 AI manning the MG nest to begin with and myself in the vehiles providing extra oomph; but it would work as an MP game to. I will post it.

Kind Regards Walker

Tonci87

Dec 23 2009, 12:43

Please explain what do you mean with shooot and scoot, and Hull down long distance?

mrcash2009

Dec 23 2009, 15:00

I was playing this and ACE last night on a stealth mission using SECOP destroy location mission. I spent 30 mins working out aproach and also watching the pattern of patrols. I got a 100 meter distance and targeted the leader .. things went well but the camps gunners targeted and all went mad.

I spent another 30 minds playing cat and mouse around forest areas next to the location being hunted. I think in all the time I was trying to work out the flanking I think I spotted AI 10 percent of that time .. at night it was tense. Haven't had the feeling properly since Ghost Recon, it "feels" so much different in terms of planning becuase you make a mistake and dont cover yourself your always on the back foot working out how to counter the flanking .... superb work.

The only thing I would add is I tested firing a smoke M203 round right next to the patrol (a early attempt and testing things) .. I ended up firing 2 so the smoke trail literaly wafted into there path/patrol but the AI didn't react at all. I was wondering if that can be tested more by someone to see how AI patrols react for you (without seeing any enemy) to smoke m203 rounds dropped near them as they patrol.

jasonnoguchi

Dec 24 2009, 01:38

It will be even more cool if a certain percentage chance is set into enemy AI to fire madly and blindly in area suppression into smokes generated by smoke grenades. That's what they do in RL because a smoke grenade is sure sign someone's coming from that direction.

Meatball0311

Dec 24 2009, 07:38

When I set my skillFriendly, skillEnemy, precisionFriendly, precisionEnemy in my profile.. does that automatically set the skill level of all friendly and enemy units? I mean the meter that shows the skill ingame doesnt matter does it?

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac208/Meatball0311/ArmA2/FRAP%20CLIPS/arma224DEC09.jpg

AnimalMother92

Dec 24 2009, 08:21

I believe that the slider in the editor acts as a multiplier on the values set in your difficulty options/config files. I could be wrong though.

nubbin77

Dec 24 2009, 14:58

Meatball0311

Dec 24 2009, 17:55

I would love to know the answer on the slider question as well. Because I don't understand what changing the config does if this slider overrides it (Every unit put down for every mission would then just use what the slider has). So I have know idea how you would know which values are being used.

Yes I agree, what would be the point in setting your profile config to your desired levels then. Please explain @<hidden> Team

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

Hi all

Do not know how this being done either 1.5 or Zeus but the latest little tricks the AI seem to have learned are vehicle shoot and scoot I saw this before with TOW Humvees but now I am seeing it with Vodniks. And Hull down long distance shooting by tracked armor!

Far worse I am seeng sensible husbanding application of these tactics! Targeted hull down take out of strong points and vehicles followed by retirment behind full cover.

I have a test mission called "Simple Battle" on Utes. It is a king of the hill type mission. In order to balance it over time I have moved from a couple of MK19 Humvees to now 6 BTRs.

I play it as a simple team switch single player mission with most of the AI kept reverse slope and 4 AI manning the MG nest to begin with and myself in the vehiles providing extra oomph; but it would work as an MP game to. I will post it.

Kind Regards Walker

Hey Walker your private message thing is full.. delete some messages. Sorry to ask here, but what is up with a CEX for ArmA2? Would love to have it

Protegimus

Dec 26 2009, 11:34

Yes I agree, what would be the point in setting your profile config to your desired levels then. Please explain @<hidden> Team...

As I understand it you configure your profile to provide the base settings for your system. This affects every AI soldier in any mission you subsequently play on your system.

The skill setting in the editor allows you vary the individual soldier skill level on a per mission basis, around the base level you defined in the profile. This is simply to provide variation in missions.

Njayjay

Dec 26 2009, 23:15

Whats a recommended accuracy settings to make this similar to stock ACE2 behaviors?? It is way too inaccurate with the default values.

Manzilla

Dec 27 2009, 00:02

Which values? You'd probably be better off testing what you are comfortable with then trying to get the base ACE2 settings. One man's settings may be too much or too little for another.

Weinerschnitzel! :)

Meatball0311

Dec 27 2009, 04:32

As I understand it you configure your profile to provide the base settings for your system. This affects every AI soldier in any mission you subsequently play on your system.

The skill setting in the editor allows you vary the individual soldier skill level on a per mission basis, around the base level you defined in the profile. This is simply to provide variation in missions.

Roger I copy that the skill settings I configure in my user profile is what the AI is set to. The slider skill meter in the editor, is just incase I want to change a specific units skill then?

SilverBlue

Dec 27 2009, 06:30

The slider skill meter in the editor, is just incase I want to change a specific units skill then?

Thats what it sounds like.

Inkompetent

Dec 27 2009, 09:59

Roger I copy that the skill settings I configure in my user profile is what the AI is set to. The slider skill meter in the editor, is just incase I want to change a specific units skill then?

Correct. The skill slider for a unit is a skill multiplier specific for that soldier/vehicle only. So regardless of your aiSkill and aiPrecision levels in your config, a soldier with a maxed skill slider will always have twice the skill of one with half a skill slider. (Okay, I'm not entirely certain if it'll be exactly twice as high. Might be hidden numbers affecting the skill levels, but you get the point :) )

Meatball0311

Dec 27 2009, 10:08

Correct. The skill slider for a unit is a skill multiplier specific for that soldier/vehicle only. So regardless of your aiSkill and aiPrecision levels in your config, a soldier with a maxed skill slider will always have twice the skill of one with half a skill slider. (Okay, I'm not entirely certain if it'll be exactly twice as high. Might be hidden numbers affecting the skill levels, but you get the point :) )

so my best bet (if I just want the AI to have the aiSkill and aiPrecision levels I set in my config) would be to slide the skill meter to zero in the editor?

Protegimus

Dec 27 2009, 16:19

A note for everyone that wants to enjoy GL4 together with the combat skills of Zeus AI, edit the
...\@<hidden>\GL4_Settings\GL4_Global.sqf

file and set:

// GL4 Enemy A.I. Difficult:
// ================================================== ====
GL4_Global set [29, False];
When set this way, AI perform to much more realistic levels, they do not hesitate when engaging at close quarters, plus use a better mix of weaponry when doing so and the benefits of GL4 make missions even more challenging.

so my best bet (if I just want the AI to have the aiSkill and aiPrecision levels I set in my config) would be to slide the skill meter to zero in the editor?
I'd leave it at the default middle setting, unless you specifically want a more or less capable unit. Lowering the slider to minimum provides AI with very limited ability, useful for some scenarios, but I wouldn't recommend setting all this way.

Whats a recommended accuracy settings to make this similar to stock ACE2 behaviors?? It is way too inaccurate with the default values.
Could you elaborate a little on what/how you are testing?
I can state for a fact that for the same profile 'precision' setting, Zeus AI are actually more accurate than ACE2 AI, but maybe we can help with what you are trying to achieve.

Mandrake5

Dec 27 2009, 16:29

Is Zeus already included in ACE2? If not, can it be used with ACE2 without problems?

Cheers

jasonnoguchi

Dec 27 2009, 23:42

Is Zeus already included in ACE2? If not, can it be used with ACE2 without problems?

Cheers

There is a special ZEUS_ACE version. Search the thread.

SilverBlue

Dec 28 2009, 06:07

There is a special ZEUS_ACE version. Search the thread.

Indeed. The link for the ACE compatible version of ZeusAI is in the first post of this topic.

Njayjay

Dec 31 2009, 17:31

For those who found the default AI accuracy a little too inaccurate, what values are you using?

franklin

Jan 1 2010, 18:42

looks like the ACE version is busted after todays ACE update. getting an error that reads: Addon 'zeu_c_ai_skill' requires addon 'ace_c_ai_aiming'

Mandrake5

Jan 1 2010, 23:32

ditto - is there a workaround for this yet?

Protegimus

Jan 2 2010, 00:59

To maintain compatibility with ACE2 mod beta version: 0.2.204 release, Zeus AI Combat Skills is updated to version 0.04 - download link (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1484550&postcount=1) on first page.

Protegimus

AnimalMother92

Jan 2 2010, 01:22

thnx for the quick response Protegimus!

franklin

Jan 2 2010, 05:21

sweet! i had to play today without Zeus AI... it was horrible, i couldnt stand it... thank you for this addon Protegimus!

(AEF)Swordsman

Jan 2 2010, 11:58

Cheers for the update - working wonders :)

Mandrake5

Jan 2 2010, 12:02

thank you !

Mike84

Jan 2 2010, 12:05

Ace's expertise in breaking this addon is remarkable :cool:

SupraJojo

Jan 3 2010, 02:00

A note for everyone that wants to enjoy GL4 together with the combat skills of Zeus AI, edit the
...\@<hidden>\GL4_Settings\GL4_Global.sqf

file and set:

// GL4 Enemy A.I. Difficult:
// ================================================== ====
GL4_Global set [29, False];
When set this way, AI perform to much more realistic levels, they do not hesitate when engaging at close quarters, plus use a better mix of weaponry when doing so and the benefits of GL4 make missions even more challenging.

Hi Protegimus,

I didn't find that line in my file. What I found was:

// GL4 Enemy A.I. Difficult Level:
// ==============================================================
// Choose True or False to enable/disable this feature completly
// True / False, default is True
GL4_Global set [30, False];

GL4_Global set [29, False] is now under a line that says:

// Enemy A.I. Body Remove:

Should I change the one for 30 instead?

franklin

Jan 3 2010, 02:10

on that topic, you asked me today the same question, about line 29, and i asked you a similar thing; "you mean about the body removal?" i believe you meant what is now under line 30, which is the Ai difficulty levels. Which yes, i do have that uncommented, and set to false.

jasonnoguchi

Jan 3 2010, 02:16

I was using zeus_ace to play the SEAL TEAM 6 campaign 3 and it was AWESOME SAUCE!

One thing I noticed though is that with the latest update, my squad mates no longer react differently to my danger or stay alert commands. They automatically take up positions and engage enemies when enemies are nearby with or without commands. In fact, they are so individualistic they won't stay in any kind of formation but seek their own cover and positions. Its actually a good thing but could be quite troublesome when I need a buddy mate covering my rear as everyone would be everywhere. (good thing they can spot enemies much better than me and take very good cover!)

I can't even order them specifically to mount a vehicle or get to a specific spot when enemies are nearby and they are in the "mood". No matter how I tell to them move to somewhere else, they will simply stick to whatever it is they are doing (usually hidden behind cover and leaning out for shots) and never executes the order. Almost impossible to order my men to take over objectives anymore.

Any advise?

WallyJas

Jan 5 2010, 03:44

nubbin77

Jan 5 2010, 03:46

Wally - it never dawned on you to look through the last few days of posts to see if maybe they had the same issue? Look 6 or so posts up.

WallyJas

Jan 5 2010, 03:56

Yeah I did mate ..... but I have v0.04.7z installed and I still get the error.

Did I miss something else?

Minimalaco

Jan 5 2010, 05:44

hello, I have a useless doubt jajajaja, those archives that lower, is only enough with loading them like addons normal and ready? …. or it is necessary to put some line in some soldier, to publish some .sqf, etc… so that the AI works with this addons?

Protegimus

Jan 6 2010, 00:45

Guys, when I run ARMA2 with this addon I get an error message about the ace_c_ai_skill file.
i have checked and the file is definately in the ace folder and I have also checked that I have the latest version of this addon.

Any ideas on what might be causing this error please?

Wal

Sounds like you need to update your version of ACE2 Wal. Zeus AI Combat Skills for ACE2 mod v0.04 is built for ACE2 beta version: 0.2.204 as the ACE team included a bugfix to ace_c_ai_skill.

If you don't want to update ACE2 for some reason, then download v0.03 of Zeus AI Combat Skills for ACE mod.

@<hidden>: just install the mod as documented, nothing else is required.

Protegimus

touristo

Jan 7 2010, 09:51

Hello to the devs of ZEUS AI combat skills,

just wanted to thank you much along the same lines many others did: your mod sort of provides the gamer with a new game. I am especially impressed by your efforts to achieve a more challenging CQB experience. I started using ZEUS AI as soon as it appeared in ADDONS & MODS: COMPLETE and noticed the difference between former ZEUS versions and the most recent one quickly after installing it.

Since OFP I had accepted that BIS games were good for combined arms simulation and long distance firefights while other games like the Rainbow Six series (well, at least up to Raven Shield. I didn't like Lockdown and Vegas) and Ghost Recon were more of a challenge in the CQB department, although somewhat arcadey in some aspects.

But the more I play into the SEAL TEAM SIX campaigns and Chesty Puller,which have some rather close engagements besides standard long range fire exchanges, the more I am impressed by the CQB abilities of both my opponents and my AI squadmates.

Anyone who played the first SEAL campaign nows the first Mission where you have to clear the two ports. The second one cannot be cleared by sniping alone; you have to go in and face the enemy in close combat. And you have to do it with only five men against roughly ten well-hidden OPFOR guys within the maze of containers and halls.

Although I had placed my sniper on top of one of the dock cranes by Team Switching to him, I could not save his life after switching back to the leader. So, with four men I had to finish off the remaining six enemies.

That was one fierce fight; in the end I had only two men left including the leader, and we were wounded. Still managed to beat the mission, but it was only luck and in the end on the Skalisty Island I had to engage the last two opponents with smoke grenades and my pistol because I didn't dare to rush out of cover to take the M4 ammo from my fallen comrade! :pistols:

I should probably mention I put enemy accuracy up to 0.3, which doesn't make them complete uber snipers in distanced firefights, but beefs up their CQB hit probability to a breathtaking level, yet it is still fair with that setting and not aimbot-like.

Currently I don't play campaigns with ACE 2 since during beta develeopment it is of course no good to start campaigns... Instead, I just use @<hidden> plus most of the PROPER gameplay tweaks and 31st MEU Ballistics with GMJ. I spiced that up with DSAI and VFAI and some replacements for sound and weapons, as well as the ASR_grenadier fix. And then I get games like descibed above. What more could I want from ArmA 2 until ACE 2 has reached final status?

Now I just have a quick question left about the experimental PBO: is it savegame sensitive? That is, if I try it in one of the campaign missions and later would like to remove it, will those saves still work without it?

Thanks for all your efforts in enhancing this game,

tourist

afp

Jan 7 2010, 12:41

I was playing some time ago with cfgAiSkills for a while and checked Zeus values.
What I discovered at time was that the most important thing seems to be maxRange factor in weapons config. So besides cfgAISkills value I was focused on weapons values too, as I also wanted to play some missions without ACOGs or other scopes.
So I would say that engagement distance in the end depends in order on:
- maxRange
- spotDistance
- weapon scope
- .armaProfile
- doFire (if scripted mission)

I ended up doing "noacog" missions against some AKS version limited to almost 300m range so they won't engage from far while you have almost no chance to hit.

Here are my old values:
aimingSpeed[] = {0, 0.4, 1, 0.8};
aimingShake[] = {0, 0.7, 1, 1};
courage[] = {0, 0.8, 1, 1}; // rarely flee
commanding[] = {0, 0.4, 1, 1}; // dont want dumb bosses
reloadSpeed[] = {0, 0.2, 1, 0.9};
general[] = {0, 0.8, 1, 1};
endurance[] = {0, 0.90, 1, 0.99}; // never noticed anyway
spotTime[] = {0, 0.3, 1, 0.9};
spotDistance[] = {0, 0.2, 1, 0.50};
aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0.2, 1, 0.7};

aimSpeed - I let it a bit the higher than yours, as if you got close to them they may be sometimes too slow turning around.
aimingShake - also higher than yours, shaking its a bit unnatural at low values.
courage - I let a small chance to flee, althought you may never notice that. Maybe yours is better.
commanding- not sure all this one does, I just want them to follow the orders so I figered out higher is beter.
spotTime - higer than yours. Tho not tested very much cover operations.
spotDistance - the most important. I couldn't figure out all implications over all kind of vehicles, so I increased it a bit and as long they were in weapon range with a decent skill, they were noticed.
I have two questions. You sure that number higher than 1 are considered in cfgAiSkill? And you are sure about all implications of that high spotDistance? If so, I might adjust my value too...

EDIT:

One more thing, maybe people should be warned about campaigns and missions not done with Zeus. Sometimes the new parameters may alter mission gameplay, like triggering things earlier or not at all and not reaching the spot etc. I remember the campaign in ArmA 1 was different when I was playing with ACE... I mean some missions never end or stuff.

WallyJas

Jan 8 2010, 10:39

Sounds like you need to update your version of ACE2 Wal. Zeus AI Combat Skills for ACE2 mod v0.04 is built for ACE2 beta version: 0.2.204 as the ACE team included a bugfix to ace_c_ai_skill.
Protegimus

Thanks Protegimus, I'll go and update my ACE files right now. :)

Wal

TristanYockell

Jan 11 2010, 17:12

Would this AI system affect P85 units?.

mrcash2009

Jan 11 2010, 23:02

But the more I play into the SEAL TEAM SIX campaigns and Chesty Puller,which have some rather close engagements besides standard long range fire exchanges, the more I am impressed by the CQB abilities of both my opponents and my AI squadmates.

On Chesty puller now, mission 2 and im trying different approaches to the village, this ZEUS and Ace2 .. is outstanding, its a great campaign, not many campaigns ive bothered with, even BIS ones but Im hooked on this one. I guess its off topic but does show these mods working like a dream.

Aelin

Jan 12 2010, 15:00

it rocks.what is the range of compatibility?I mean,does this work with usermade units?

Tonci87

Jan 12 2010, 16:58

Yes it does because they are controlled by the same AI as the Bis ones^^

Protegimus

Jan 14 2010, 16:59

ArmA II Zeus AI Combat Skills is updated to version: 1.04

If you use the full download link and already have previous release installed, please remove it before installing the new version.

The ArmA II patch to version 1.05.62017 justified a small decrease in aimingAccuracy upper skill value to improve firefights.
Also, a new module, zeu_cfg_core_ai_sensors.pbo is included to improve and balance tank & aircrew ability.

Download via Yoma Addon Sync has been added.

Download links (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1484550&postcount=1) in first post.

DMarkwick

Jan 14 2010, 17:07

I'm getting the message that I already have 1.04 for ACE (but not the standalone). Is the ACE download an old one?

Foxhound

Jan 14 2010, 19:06

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8251).

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/3-animation.png (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8250)
Zeus AI Combat Skills & AI Spotting modular v1.04 (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8250)

Manzilla

Jan 14 2010, 19:46

You changed the names of the .pbo's?

Protegimus

Jan 14 2010, 22:19

I'm getting the message that I already have 1.04 for ACE (but not the standalone). Is the ACE download an old one?

The ACE2 version isn't updated mate!

You changed the names of the .pbo's?

No, just added the additional zeu_cfg_core_ai_sensors.pbo

Protegimus

AnimalMother92

Jan 15 2010, 03:54

The ACE2 version isn't updated mate!

Protegimus

Will it be? Or is it irrelevant because of the ACE AI tweaks?

Protegimus

Jan 15 2010, 08:28

Absolutely, the best combination is undoubtably Zeus AI together with ACE2.
Playing on a server without it just doesn't provide the same experience to me.
A number of co-op server admins (including some of the largest in the community) and players provide positive feedback, so I know it's doing its job.

I have a small (post ArmA 2 version 1.05 patch) update for the ACE version that will be ready for release soon.

The ArmA 2 update was about bringing that version into line feature wise, plus it has the post ArmA 2 version 1.05 patch update already included.

Hopefully BIS will continue their AI development as promised too. I will be very happy when the base game meets or exceeds the standard achieved using this and other AI mods such as GL4.

Protegimus

AnimalMother92

Jan 15 2010, 09:51

Good to hear, I've found that I can only play with ACE+Zeus now as it feels that's how Arma 2 should be. Hats off :)

tobmic

Jan 17 2010, 19:11

what about the bug that ai get stuck in danger mode will it get fixed with zeus ?

Njayjay

Jan 17 2010, 22:58

To anyone dissatisfied with the default accuracy settings of the Zeus AI mod, what are your accuracy settings?

Njayjay

Jan 19 2010, 08:09

Edit: problem solved

Njayjay

Jan 19 2010, 11:02

Is there any way to increase the accuracy of snipers and marksmen without altering the accuracy of other units?

node_runner

Jan 20 2010, 20:21

Hi Protegimus,

I didn't find that line in my file. What I found was:

// GL4 Enemy A.I. Difficult Level:
// ==============================================================
// Choose True or False to enable/disable this feature completly
// True / False, default is True
GL4_Global set [30, False];

GL4_Global set [29, False] is now under a line that says:

// Enemy A.I. Body Remove:

Should I change the one for 30 instead?

It looks like the latest version of GL4 has changed this setting around yet again. In my config file, array 36 seems to be what you want to turn off:

//GL4 Enemy A.I. Difficult Level:
//=======================
//Choose False to disable this feature completely.
// True/False, default is True
GL4_Global set [36, False];

However, after doing this and making sure that ZeusAI gets loaded *after* GL4, I'm still having problems with AI not firing at each other at very close CQB ranges. This problem seems to go away when I take out GL4 from my mod list and just test ZeusAI along with ACE.

EDIT:
I've reloaded everything again and now it seems to be behaving properly. Does white space matter in these files? If so, they GL4_Global line was indented which was causing the problem. Also, I've noticed that without a waypoint, the peripheral vision and ability of the AI to sense enemies close to them but not right in front of them is very poor. If you load up TM2 and drop in a BLUFOR without a waypoint, then spawn an OPFOR on a 2 o'clock position from the BLUFOR, they will not detect each other due to very poor peripheral senses. But if you give BLUFOR a "Guard" waypoint, his peripheral perception increases dramatically. He can sense and react an enemy infantry on his 3 or 9 o'clock positions as you would expect a real person to do.

A few other things I've noticed about Zeus AI:
-AI still rarely uses smoke to withdraw.
-Grenadiers rarely fire their GL's when enemy AI is clustered into a group.
-Medics blindly rush into the line of fire to heal wounded and get shot themselves. I have yet to see a medic attempt to drag or carry wounded to a safer position.

Suggestion:
There is fairly active group of people here who are committed to help in any way we can to improve ZeusAI and GL4 (and how they interact with each other). Some ways that we might be able to help you guys continue to improve your wonderful work:

-Set up a bug/feature tracker on dev-heaven.net that we could all post bugs and feature requests to.

-Come up with a standardized set of SP missions that are good for testing the AI under certain conditions that we all could run and report back the results. Troopmon2 would be useful for this. For example, I use TM2 to spawn an OPFOR and BLUFOR right next to each other and watch how long it takes for them to notice each other and fire on one another. Maybe we could help you guys put together a little mission pack that would test the AI in all kinds of conditions, then we could all run them and report back odd or broken behavior.

mrcash2009

Jan 21 2010, 11:38

Does you mod deal with the heavy suppression of team AI when in contact, I post here and in GL4 as im not sure which is having the effect. I remember a post about the ammo level being checked to change the suppression amount at a certain ammo level but not sure if it was here or GL4.

Im currently noticing AI are super aggressive with laying down fire. I had 2 AI go prone in a barn doorway and my entire team unloaded 50 percent of ammo at the barn (my ai setting as as per this mods pref setting BTW). They ran out of ammo in less than 2 mins for some members, was a bit crazy.

So far with this and GL4 im trying to find a sweet spot for suppression that seems a little too aggressive and the only issue im having is retaining a team with enough ammo currently.

TheRev709

Jan 21 2010, 12:19

Protegimus

Jan 21 2010, 16:06

Does you mod deal with the heavy suppression of team AI when in contact...

You could try testing without zeu_c_ai_rof.pbo to fall back on default or the other mod's rates of fire in order to isolate the cause.
Any particular soldier class affected, or all of them?

@<hidden>: You do this in the mission editor.

@<hidden>: Thanks for the GL4 configuration update. I'll add a relevant note to the readme.
I appreciate the feedback and what you suggest with the standard set of missions is basically how I evaluate changes before any update is released to Zeus for full multiplayer testing. Testing is very time consuming, but the simple scenarios really show up the strengths and weaknesses of the AI following any changes that are made.

Protegimus

mrcash2009

Jan 21 2010, 16:37

Hence why in my missions my team mates always have rucks with extra ammo, or are driving around in a humvee with plenty extra

Totaly agree, but my example is a user made mission/campaign Chesty Puller. AS much as I have ammo truck getting AI to sort out ammo and stop them from waiting/prone in danger mode to go get ammo isnt easy.

You could try testing without zeu_c_ai_rof.pbo to fall back on default or the other mod's rates of fire in order to isolate the cause.
Any particular soldier class affected, or all of them?

Its stock USMC units for the mission as a fireteam, but again Im not suggesting which one is doing it, or that's its a bad things, I would just like to be happy I have some kind of control to tell them to "chill" a bit at times. At one point with the barn i wanted to tell them to hold fire, droves of tracers raining on the barn it was a real sight. I will have a fiddle with what yuour suggesting, im aware of the configs and have it all set right in combination, but now Im in some good missions with enemy im starting to see how super aggressive they are with suppression and ammo use.

Njayjay

Jan 21 2010, 16:39

I've tried upping the skill but the AI sniper/marksman accuracy is still appalling. Don't get me wrong I love the mod but this aspect really needs to be addressed.

TristanYockell

Jan 22 2010, 02:51

I think that tanks should engage at longer ranges.

Amgoz1

Jan 26 2010, 17:23

When I change the Zeus AI accuracy in the PBO file, I get an error when starting the game. Where can I configure the accuracy without Arma getting angry at me?

Njayjay

Jan 29 2010, 15:14

I have a question.
Should I literally go into my .Arma2Profile file and edit it as the instructions say?
The values seem to have made combat a little too easy. Before I added GL4, I was playing this on vetmode where friendly AI is at 100 skill and enemy is at 90. Seemed much more difficult then. What should I tweak the values to to make it more similar to how it was before?

Tonci87

Jan 29 2010, 15:26

Yes you should go in there and edit it the Zeus way, otherwise you get AK Snipers

Njayjay

Jan 29 2010, 18:14

Not sure I dig this mod. The accuracy is really quite bad, both for friendly and enemy AI.

Tonci87

Jan 29 2010, 20:37

Not quite bad, but realistic. Ever tried to shoot a AK-47 full auto? You can´t hit shit with it

Njayjay

Jan 29 2010, 20:42

Tonci87

Jan 29 2010, 20:44

Well don´t know what youn have done with the settings, but the Ai is okay for me, they hit pretty good actually. If you want the AI to hit you better, then twek your Profile settings, no need to delete the Mod. The Mod doesn´t only improve AI Precision, but also AI engagement Range and other Stuff.

mrcash2009

Jan 29 2010, 22:33

Sorry but this mod works on a stupid premise. It basically makes it so the AI cant hit the broad side of a barn, for the sake of "immersion". This is directed at the maker, who seems to be an arrogant prick and conveniently dodges questions or suggestions about improving the accuracy. He thinks realism is happily prancing around unharmed with bullets whizzing past your head every which way, as in a movie. You can forget about snipers and marksmen.
Deleting this crap. Now how the hell do I restore my profile settings.

Looks like your in the minority, and if you hate it so much why waste time just posting negatives, you certainly have your mind made up. You talking to the creator like hes some noob hollywood kid who built this as some scheme to only ruin your gaming experience (your not forced to use it), the only childlike thing here is your post, and its offensive and personal, not a good move.

You raise your settings to make them more "accurate" .. it can be balanced, you need to tweak it a little more to your tastes, this mod isn't all about making accuracy bad as some kind of cheap workaround, if that's your understanding of it then im not surprised about your response. Its also about flanking moves and AI teamwork, please create a version that does things better or more to your liking is the only fix your end from what i can see.

W0lle

Jan 29 2010, 22:48

TermiPete

Jan 29 2010, 23:48

maj_woody

Jan 30 2010, 00:26

HyperU2

Jan 30 2010, 01:51

I've had a much easier time against AI using ACE than I have with Zeus. This mod still rocks. ACE is the only place I've noticed the AI being unable to hit me when I should have been dead.

Njayjay

Jan 30 2010, 02:23

My teammates are just as bad as the enemy it seems, on a squad vs squad scenario at 150-200m I end up taking down the most enemies (especially with scope) because they are such bad shots, bullets will land everywhere all around the target while I just ACOG snipe everything.

---------- Post added at 03:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 AM ----------

Concerning to think someone gets so upset and angry when they feel . . . that they just haven't been shot enough.

I hope you backed up your barn claims with some thorough testing in the editor and a control situation with vanilla Arma2.

But seriously - if you don't like it, don't use it and get on with enjoying ArmA2 :)

Yes I backed this up in the editor, I end up killing everything on a squad vs squad scnarario because my teammates will just spray bullets wildly everywhere while missing targets standing right out in the open.

Tonci87

Jan 30 2010, 10:59

Well I think you should maybe excuse yourself Njayay, but from what you write there it seems that you messed up the Friendly AI Aiming Skills

CaptainBravo

Jan 30 2010, 11:09

We use the Zues AI (and so it seems every server online) and it works fine! It is hard to imagin playing without it as it actually enahnces my AI and make them act more like Military than houswives in combat! :)

There is something called contructive critisim, if you have an issue with a mod point the issues without calling names.

They work hard for no fee so the least we can do is be appreciative and there is always the option of just pressing DELETE!

Rhiain

Jan 30 2010, 16:41

I use the Zeus AI with ACE and if anything the AI are alot harder to fight with Zeus used then without the Zeus. They aim alot better and tend to take alot more cover....which makes them harder to kill. In open areas they go prone, and when shot at if the round misses they tend to look and see where the fire came from after hitting the dirt and returning fire in the right direction. I keep it on regular setting otherwise I would most likely spend most of my time dead.

BeerHunter

Jan 30 2010, 16:49

Don't understand..when AI are deadly with AK at 1000 yds players whine.

When bullets disperse and they have trouble hitting you at 1000 yds players whine...

Yokhanan

Jan 30 2010, 17:01

Don't understand..when AI are deadly with AK at 1000 yds players whine.

When bullets disperse and they have trouble hitting you at 1000 yds players whine...

Yep--just can't please everyone it seems.

I think something got messed up along the way, because me and my guys have yet to experience said complaints...at all. In fact, they're all the more deadly and aggressive. Even better when used with ACE and GL4. Can't say for certain what and where it went wrong for this guy, but something sure did because none of us are suffering from it. :p

Hehe, I remember playing Cipher with this running and 1) they ambushed me from a hill overlooking the road I was traveling on (they left a vehicle empty on the road so I pulled off to the side). I got out with the ai team, and I nearly went deaf because in a split second there was gunfire and I didn't know what was going on.

Second time I got suppressed and forced under a small bridge. Overall--great fun!

Rhiain

Jan 30 2010, 23:31

Don't understand..when AI are deadly with AK at 1000 yds players whine.

When bullets disperse and they have trouble hitting you at 1000 yds players whine...

Haven't had that probem. No AK sniping issues though they do get good hits in if I'm in the open no cover. No insta kills though unless I don't realize they're there and get within 30meters or so. Even then they shoot me a few times before I go down. Was trying out the Vietnam the Experience MOD with ACE2+Zeus and WARFX and it works great. Hard to find the enemy though so I kept getting too close while standing in the open. Kept getting hammered from about 30meters from prone NVA.

jasonnoguchi

Jan 31 2010, 01:40

Well, no perfection in this world. Until someone manages to sort out skill and accuracy based on unit class.

Njayjay

Jan 31 2010, 12:40

Well I think you should maybe excuse yourself Njayay, but from what you write there it seems that you messed up the Friendly AI Aiming Skills

Try placing a friendly squad vs enemy squad out in the open in the editor at about 150-200m distance. Let them open up. Don't fire any shots, just observe how inaccurate the bastards are. Especially note how rarely an enemy dies. Rather, bullets spray wildly all around them. If you can confirm this is not the case, then I guess I broke something in my settings or something. Try not to get killed/hit, and notice the engagement will take up at least a few minutes of what amounts to little more than ammo-wasting.

djczing

Jan 31 2010, 13:20

I think the reason it doesnt work is his attitude. I see attitude make problems 3 times as bad as they really are all the time.

When he grows up Im sure itll work fine for him.

I prefer he just go away, but hey... thats just me.

jibemorel

Jan 31 2010, 13:29

SgtMjr

Jan 31 2010, 13:55

Has anyone noticed a change by AI behavior in Domination when ZEUS AI is enabled? Since last Wed. the Domination AI will not behave properly ie; not shoot at obvious targets, will fixate on one target and ignore others, act stupid. Then 20 minutes or so later all will seem well and they are back to their normal, flanking, grenade chucking, sneaky selves.

Rhiain

Jan 31 2010, 14:01

Try placing a friendly squad vs enemy squad out in the open in the editor at about 150-200m distance. Let them open up. Don't fire any shots, just observe how inaccurate the bastards are. Especially note how rarely an enemy dies. Rather, bullets spray wildly all around them. If you can confirm this is not the case, then I guess I broke something in my settings or something. Try not to get killed/hit, and notice the engagement will take up at least a few minutes of what amounts to little more than ammo-wasting.

I gave that a try and had no issues. All fire from friendly and enemy hit where they are supposed to.....no bullets spraying wildy around. It tends to not last long, no more then a minute or so before fire dies down due to lack of enemy to kill. So far the russian infantry go down quicker, less accurate weapons and less personnel.But anyways, yes no problems with their aim at all. Must be something you had in settings that is messing them up.

---------- Post added at 06:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 AM ----------

Has anyone noticed a change by AI behavior in Domination when ZEUS AI is enabled? Since last Wed. the Domination AI will not behave properly ie; not shoot at obvious targets, will fixate on one target and ignore others, act stupid. Then 20 minutes or so later all will seem well and they are back to their normal, flanking, grenade chucking, sneaky selves.

Haven't noticed any issues there.

fabrizio_T

Jan 31 2010, 15:50

Hi Protegimus,

some days ago i found some problem on AI spotting performance while running Zeus (1.3).

It seems to me that max. "spotDistance" > 1 has some serious drawbacks:
i noticed that while "steady" (not moving) units benefit a lot from the maxed "SpotDistance", moving units don't.

So you end up with some serious AI balancing problems, check out the attached mission (run it with and without Zeus): http://www.2shared.com/file/11032620/e0352534/testDetection2utes.html

This simple mission features a couple units on the edges of UTES airport strip: a steady REDFOR unit (on the left side), a BLUFOR unit (on the right side) moving towards the REDFOR one.

The question is: when each of the two units will detect its opponent?
Here are my rough results (yours may change in values depending on your difficulty or profile settings, but i bet they will be consistent with mine):

VANILLA AI
-----------
BLUFOR DETECTED -> 200-210m.
REDFOR DETECTED -> 190-200m.

ZEUS AI
--------
BLUFOR DETECTED -> 360-380m.
REDFOR DETECTED -> 190-210m.

So with ZEUS enabled the moving unit's spotting performance is just on par with vanilla or slightly better. On the contrary the steady unit's spotting performance is 50-100% better than vanilla.

This is potentially breaking the gameplay balance, rendering cautious/stealthy advancing towards steady targets almost ineffective.

I bet it's a better option keeping "spotDistance" capped to 1 and to work on "sensitivity" to achieve some better-than-vanilla spotting performance while not breaking the balance.

Cheers.

Blade89

Jan 31 2010, 15:51

Going even a smidge outside those boundaries in the read-me really messes it up. We've been playing with ZEUS A.I. on one of our member's server with ACE in domination for the past couple of weeks. When the settings aren't right, there isn't much of a difference in their behavior. However, inside of those boundaries, we've gotten some of the most fun and tough engagements we have had since playing in ARMA 2.

It definitely must be something on your end Njay.

Kroky

Jan 31 2010, 19:40

Hmm. Although I like a lot the game changes Zeus introduced into gameplay, I think it makes almost impossible to sneak in the near of the enemy units without being spotted. EVEN when you definitely cannot be seen. A good example for it is the mission on Khe Sanh carrier in the Seal Team Six campaign from Sick1. Even when you are starting a deck below, without moving and making any noise, the AI will detect you and react. So right now I think the AI is too sensitive. I agree that they should spot enemy units on a farther distance, but still, it should be possible to sneak to them.

I will try some missions without ZEUS, only with ACE2. Lets see what it brings.

fabrizio_T

Jan 31 2010, 20:26

I think it makes almost impossible to sneak in the near of the enemy units without being spotted.

That's exactly the problem i tried to highlight above :)

I'm having some better balance with sensitivity raised to around 5 as a base (about +25/30% compared to Zeus 1.3) and maximum "spotDistance" lowered to 1.
With these values stealth works to some extents (there are still some issues though, probably "camouflage" values need to be fine-tuned).

All that said, thx for your great work here, Protegimus.

Mysteryman5150

Jan 31 2010, 20:36

+1 on that fabrizio- I love everything else about this mod but I can't really plan a good attack as I am spotted to easily, and usually your team is the team in motion.

@<hidden> Thank you for improving the gameplay immensely. I don't agree with the accuracy problems that some people speak of. If you ever watch Blackhawk down, I know it is a movie but it is a fairly good depiction of real war action, you will see soldiers run out of ammo and alot of gun fire from both sides, especially the enemy that doesn't hit anyone. Not every bullet has a name on it, unless you are a sniper, and it should be very difficult to aim accurately when being fired upon. IMO this is one of the realistic elements that your mod adds and was missing in the vanilla version. Thank you for an excellent mod and you work put in to it.

esco7800

Feb 1 2010, 02:37

hear is my line "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steam.exe" -applaunch 33900 -mod=@<hidden> parameter;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>

but only the first mod Duala parameter is loading none of the other are can someone tell me what i'm doing worng?

jasonnoguchi

Feb 1 2010, 03:12

well, according to statistics, it takes an average of 1000 rounds per kill in RL wars...so...

Mysteryman5150

Feb 1 2010, 03:19

@<hidden> That is what I was getting at, thank you for some statistical support on that;). I think it is so much more realistic when every bullet doesnn't have a name on it, unless of course it is a sniper firing. However, it doesn't sound like BIS has allowed for individual unit accuracy so I will stick with the Zeus platform:).

Zeron

Feb 1 2010, 03:21

esco7800

Feb 1 2010, 03:23

i am not sure you can have spaces in the folder

yea I changed that there are know spaces any more still not loading all the mods only the first one?

Zeron

Feb 1 2010, 03:28

so its now

-mod=@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>

esco7800

Feb 1 2010, 03:44

yea but still the other mods are not loading only the first one

dialektiikka

Feb 1 2010, 09:52

I think it is so much more realistic when every bullet doesnn't have a name on it, unless of course it is a sniper firing. However, it doesn't sound like BIS has allowed for individual unit accuracy so I will stick with the Zeus platform:).

Second that. I've been playing at Veteran levels with ACE2/Zeus/GL4 combo on for a few weeks now and it keeps me impressed every session. I've been gaming a looong time and for the first time I get the feeling the AI is hard to beat, but not because the AI cheats. When I lose half my men at the end phase of a mission, it's because I've lost focus and taken stupid risks :).

Chesty Puller scenarios, for instance, became these extended Recon/Fire & Movement type things. Check the surroundings, assign pointmen, then move short distanses from cover to cover, keep a couple of guys behind as mini reserve and really, really protect your key personel (medics, AT etc.). I get a big kick re-playing stuff I used to be able to breeze through in an half hour, that now take more than two hours. Tv-series episodes to full lenght movies :D. Just like it should be.

It's great that AI mods have developed so far, even though ArmAII is less than year old. Hopefully in the near future the limitations on individual unit AI can be overcome. That would bring the ArmAII AI to the level of detail seen in the Merlin Air Combat engine used in Shockwave's Battle of Brittain Wings of Victory flight sim. Individual AI for developed/third world infantry, tank AI similar to Steel Beasts... <Drifts off into a cordite hazed pipe dream> :D

NoRailgunner

Feb 1 2010, 11:24

jasonnoguchi - just curious who made those statistics for "an average" - any links?

X amount of bullets doesn't always have to equal Y amount of kills - war is just not that simple. ;)

Rhiain

Feb 1 2010, 11:36

Statistics are a pain....those are just numbers based on ammunition counts from units and record....it doesn't actually mean that 1000+ rounds were used to kill one enemy soldier. Though the statistics for Iraq and Afghanistan state 250,000rounds/1insurgent. It doesn't really factor in all the variables. Wind, distance, cover, accuracy of the personnel, accuracy of weapon( cleanliness of it, how well it's zeroed, how far it's zeroed for, type of sight system used, type of round, etc), shooting stance used, and use of support for the weapon. Pretty hard to figure out a count with all those variables.

jasonnoguchi

Feb 1 2010, 12:58

@<hidden>, watched it on TV. They simply divided the number of rounds expended during a certain part of WW2 by the number of soldiers shot dead. They were actually comparing it to the WW2 sniper accuracy of about 3 rounds per kill. Beats the hell out of me how true it is but I am sure most of the rounds are MG rounds.

HyperU2

Feb 1 2010, 13:06

I'm sure they look at the number of bullets shipped in theater and the number of dead. That of course includes the number used on the target range.

Protegimus

Feb 1 2010, 19:48

Hi Protegimus,
some days ago i found some problem on AI spotting performance while running Zeus (1.3).

Thanks for the feedback and putting the test mission together fabrizio. I'll check it out.

Hmm. Although I like a lot the game changes Zeus introduced into gameplay, I think it makes almost impossible to sneak in the near of the enemy units without being spotted. EVEN when you definitely cannot be seen. A good example for it is the mission on Khe Sanh carrier in the Seal Team Six campaign from Sick1. Even when you are starting a deck below, without moving and making any noise, the AI will detect you and react. So right now I think the AI is too sensitive. I agree that they should spot enemy units on a farther distance, but still, it should be possible to sneak to them.

I will try some missions without ZEUS, only with ACE2. Lets see what it brings.

I'm monitoring results with the ACE2 version as that mod continues to develop.

You have to be careful when testing in different scenarios as some of the objects in ArmA 2 don't appear to block AI vision as you might expect. An example is the concrete wall surrounding the airbase in the West of Chernarus, perhaps the aircraft carrier is another example.

If the AI are spotting you when there is no line of sight - be very careful if you're moving to the front of enemy, they need only a glimpse - and you're not attracting attention through noise or with vehicles then things need to be reassesed.

@<hidden>: Change the accuracy of the AI in your .ArmA2Profile file.
precisionFriendly=0.5;
precisionEnemy=0.2;

I wasn't ignoring your comment, examples are given in the readme and it has been discussed several times in this thread, so I expected that to be enough.

You could also look at the Realistic Ballistics mod's developed from NonWonderDog's excellent work for ArmA.

If that's not enough for you, you know the drills.

Protegimus

domokun

Feb 4 2010, 09:54

Hi I first starting using Zeus AI, a few months ago with CBA v0.2.
It seemed to work fine in SP as well as MP.
Life was good :p

Last week I updated CBA to v0.3.
Although I installed it to separate directory to CBA v0.2, it needed to install files to the "source" directory.
These files seemed more recent that the previous version so I agreed to overwrite them.

Last night my mates and I played online and immediately we encountered problems.
We all saw messages about "CBA main" or something other.
We continued playing as it didn't seem to interfere with our game.
Except that gradually we noticed the wounding system seemed completely out of whack, i.e. we would take damage but we never seemed to suffer any effects (injury or even death).

As I host the mission, we quit out of the mission and I edited the target line so that we reverted to CBA v0.2.
We started the same mission expecting everything to return to normal, but although we didn't receive the "CBA main" error message we still encountered problems with the wounding system.

Finally, I quit again and this time I re-installed CBA v0.2, thereby overwriting the existing files in "source" directory with the older ones.
This time we tried again and the wounding system seemed to work correctly.

So I guess my questions are:

1. Can I run the latest version of Zeus AI on CBA v0.2 without any loss of functionality?
2. If so, apart from loss of user-commanded AI, will other players experience loss of functionality if only I run this mod (players are reticent to installing mods), i.e. if Zeus AI only runs on server (and not clients) what is lost?
3. What benefit is there to running CBA v0.3 vs v0.2 with regard to Zeus AI?
4. Do you know why we encountered these problems to the wounding system when running Zeus AI & CBA?
5. Is there anyway to check that Zeus AI is running properly?

Many thanks for all your work.
It's really appreciated.
If you had any doubt, did you know that the CIA co-op server (very respected) only runs 1 mod and it's yours! :cool:

Cheers

tobmic

Feb 6 2010, 12:11

btw the base skill from enemy for example in DOMI do i need to use the Zeus ai settings for the base skill or default domi settings ?

Protegimus

Feb 6 2010, 14:28

Hi I first starting using Zeus AI, a few months ago with CBA v0.2.
It seemed to work fine in SP as well as MP.
Life was good :p
...
So I guess my questions are:

1. Can I run the latest version of Zeus AI on CBA v0.2 without any loss of functionality?
...
3. What benefit is there to running CBA v0.3 vs v0.2 with regard to Zeus AI?

Zeus AI does not use or require CBA, so you can update CBA as needed.

2. If so, apart from loss of user-commanded AI, will other players experience loss of functionality if only I run this mod (players are reticent to installing mods), i.e. if Zeus AI only runs on server (and not clients) what is lost?

Hopefully this explanation (now added to Troubleshooting/FAQ section in first post - thx Mr. Cheese) will help:
Q. What happens if the mod is only installed on the server, i.e. players
don't have it?
A. If AI is in a player's group then that AI is local to the player. If
the player doesn't have the addon and the server does his AI will be
less 'skilled' than the server's

4. Do you know why we encountered these problems to the wounding system when running Zeus AI & CBA?

I assume you're referring to the CBA version distributed with ACE. If so, that mod is under development, no doubt the ACE team are working hard to improve their good work.

5. Is there anyway to check that Zeus AI is running properly?

Simple test procedure in this (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1485244&postcount=11) post.

Many thanks for all your work.
It's really appreciated.
If you had any doubt, did you know that the CIA co-op server (very respected) only runs 1 mod and it's yours! :cool:
Cheers
Thanks, good to hear you are enjoying it!

Mysteryman5150

Feb 13 2010, 06:26

@<hidden> How exactly do the H files work in the PBO's. I don't see an #include definition in the config.bin files. I was just wondering out of curiousity b/c I might try to make some slight tweaks for my own personal offline SP mode, if you don't mind me tinkering with it.

galzohar

Feb 14 2010, 21:29

While I love this addon, the most recent versions (combined with zeus server settings) seem to make the AI miss way more than they should, or at least miss way more than I miss. This becomes even worse when they actually have an ACOG/SVD/sniper rifle and still miss... You may want to tweak their accuracy up in some way.

Edit: On the Zeus test server I just had a KSVK sniper miss me twice at a range of 20 meters, so they definitely miss too much.

galzohar

Feb 26 2010, 21:21

Some more inaccuracy issues: At 120m a USMC rifleman and an automatic rifleman would basically never hit, draining their entire ammo (automatic rifleman got killed while reloading his M249). Even though they were firing through a small opening (they weren't hitting their cover though, the rounds clearly were hitting around the target area) the enemy rifleman with an AK-107 managed to return fire with much higher efficiency (still took a while to miss, but is alright considering he had to hit through a small opening). Using a grenaider (with ACOG) instead hit the enemy rifleman on one of the first shots.

I've also seen them miss way too much with RPG29 and metis. In fact with the metis I was getting weird results - every time I was doing certain things they were missing and if I was doing other things they were missing, there seems to be some bugs there. For example when I put myself as one of the 4 metis guys (each in his own group) and aimed by metis at the tank (but not fire), the other metis soldiers would hit every single time, but when I didn't aim they would usually miss. If I placed myself as a soldier next to the tank the metis soldiers would pretty much always hit the ground halfway between them to the tank. As for the RPG29, it would almost always fly above the tank.

All tests done on the Utes airfield.

I really like this addon but those kinds of issues are pretty major and I really hope you get them fixed.

rosentorf

Mar 16 2010, 18:15

hm I feel stupid, but could someone let me in on the secret of how to edit skill and precision as stated in the first post. I go to the Options and edit the difficulty settings but there is only one value for enemy and friendly...where should I look for these settings?

Thanks for any help!!

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

Ahh I just got it...improved my search and found that I have to edit the profile-file in the documents-folders.

domokun

Mar 18 2010, 11:38

Really like your mod but I have a quick but fundamental question - when you write "Player and server profile skill levels significantly affect gameplay" which profiles should I be editing?

Let me explain, I run missions on my machine for my clan. I've also noticed that there are 2 ArmA2Profile files in My Documents\Arma2 directory. So do I need to edit both ArmA2Profiles? Also do my players need to edit their profiles too?

metalcraze

Mar 18 2010, 14:23

I have a following question regarding

To configure Zeus AI Combat Skills & Group Link 4 Special FX Edition to
work together, see this link.

The post at that link is as following

"set:

// GL4 Enemy A.I. Difficult:
// ================================================== ====
GL4_Global set [29, False];
"

However apparently Zeus was updated with new features so will the correct way of making GL4 and Zeus work together be like this?

// ==============================================================
// GL4 Enemy A.I. Difficult Level:
// ==============================================================
// True / False, default is True
GL4_Global set [45, False];

with the last string being uncommented.
the 29 option is related to whether AI can mount static defences and isn't under the "AI Difficult"

I'm using the 1.1.85 version of GL4

mrcash2009

Mar 18 2010, 16:31

Your question is more GL4 related to be honest :)

Anywho ... ignore the number "before" the comma this always changes because since that example was posted the configs in GL4 have been updated and that number is an ID list number (more have been added thus number has been raised). Although this is still exactly the same line to edit and yes, you should uncomment it so its false in order for Zeus to deal with AI side of things.

45 is the old quote in the first post which was 29 at that time ... just use the title for ref than that first number.

Nomadd

Mar 19 2010, 00:28

I have been using the addon for months and love it, but I have been seeing some pretty bad accuracy with the AI. The worst seems to be snipers and machine gunners. I have stood about 15-20m from a Russian machine gunner and he never hit me. I am running CBA,ACE,ACEX,ACE_SM,GL4 (yes I disabled the AI difficulty in GL4) as my main mods I also have misc mods for islands, vehicles,etc. The AI inaccuracies are recent. I know this is not much to go on. I will try and do some more testing.

One last note, I have been doing a lot of mission making on IslaDuala so it may be something with that island. I will try and test some on Utes and Cher.

I would love to get this resolved. This is a great mod.

Nomadd

mrcash2009

Mar 19 2010, 09:27

Whats your accuracy settings in your config? Is it lower than the mentioned setting in the first post?

galzohar

Mar 20 2010, 15:34

I'd assume the Zeus server is adjusted to the same values as stated in the first post, but I still get the same inaccuracy issues there. I'd guess it's either bad tweaking on the last version or some changes in ACE that needed to be accounted for but hadn't been since this addon hadn't been updated for a while.

SnR

Mar 20 2010, 16:00

I too was hoping for a update inline with ACE stable

Nomadd

Mar 24 2010, 12:03

Well I have tested (as much as my time will allow) and I can't figure it out. Sometimes the AI is just insanely fun/good to fight ,othertimes I can walk up to an AI and they just stand in place looking dumb. I have tried dropping mods etc, etc I have also played with the skill and precision settings.

The problem seems to be mainly Machinegunners and snipers from what I can tell. AI with just rifles seem to work fine. I don't think the problem is Zeus. It is a conflict somewhere. I just have to find it.

Luckily most of the time everything plays well

Nomadd

galzohar

Mar 24 2010, 12:35

If there's a conflict it's probably between this and ACE, as me and the Zeus server just run ACE and Zcommon.

fideco

Mar 26 2010, 19:28

That's exactly the problem i tried to highlight above :)

I'm having some better balance with sensitivity raised to around 5 as a base (about +25/30% compared to Zeus 1.3) and maximum "spotDistance" lowered to 1.
With these values stealth works to some extents (there are still some issues though, probably "camouflage" values need to be fine-tuned).

All that said, thx for your great work here, Protegimus.

Which files have i to edit to modify "Spotdistance" and "Sensitivity" values, according to your tips?
Thanks
Cheers

fideco

Mar 27 2010, 22:40

Anyone?

SNKMAN

Mar 27 2010, 22:50

UnPbo: zeu_cfg_core_ai_skills.pbo

Open "zeu_core_ai_skills.h" in the folder "zeu_cfg_core_ai_skills"

There you can see the "spotDistance" values.

UnPbo: zeu_cfg_core_ai_spotting.pbo

Open "zeu_core_ai_spotting.h" in the folder "zeu_cfg_core_ai_spotting"

There you can see the "Sensitivity" values.

gunterlund21

Mar 28 2010, 14:50

Protegimus
A quick update on your Zeus AI. Ive added and use it with a modifed version of Domination that has been enhanced with Ace2 and Mandoble air controller system. Ive set it so only the FAC in the mission has the ability to use the controller. Along with the R3f Arty system, it has allowed a few people to have a great time playing this mission on expert mode. Its made the odds of city capture more available and increased our enjoyment level tremendously. Thank you so much for creating this new AI spec for Arma2. Keep up the good work.

Kremator

Mar 28 2010, 15:26

Hmmmm triple post (3 threads) on the same thing ;) Tut tut

fideco

Mar 28 2010, 16:07

There you can see the "spotDistance" values.

There you can see the "Sensitivity" values.
SNKMAN,
you are always very helpful:)
Thanks!

metalcraze

Apr 21 2010, 23:42

So after this time what are the best settings for sensitivity and spotting to disable the all-seeing AI?

I'm having certain problems trying to play a deep night stealth mission
BLUFOR has silenced weapons (meaning no muzzle flashes and no noise that would give them away)
OPFOR is about 150-200m away and has no NVG. When I try to play as them all I can see at night is stars and blackness.

The problem is after my BLUFOR squad starts firing while crouching in grass it takes about 3-5 seconds for AI to find them and place very precise shots - which is absolutely impossible considering the situation.

Tonci87

Apr 22 2010, 10:12

Yes this really need tweaking

galzohar

Apr 22 2010, 16:13

The night thing is less about Zeus AI and more about Arma 2 itself, though it would be nice if Zeus AI found a way to make things work more realistically. But then again I don't know if it's worth an effort (to tweak AI abilities at very dark nights) as right now for players dark nights are not at all realistic in the firstplace. When was the last time you were outside and could see nothing but sky and black?

metalcraze

Apr 22 2010, 18:55

When you are outside the city or in some unlit location (inside the city too)?
ArmA2 models the night visually just fine.

As for it being ArmA2 thing - no it's not. The problem with vanilla AA2 is the opposite extreme - AI is totally blind and deaf at night. The golden middle is what is needed.
So I have to stick with unchanged GL4 for now.

galzohar

Apr 22 2010, 22:01

Well AI is totally blind past ~50m at night even if you help it by supporting it with a lot of flares (and 50m is not very far at all! You can see them way further than that in a full moon night, at least as long as you don't make noise. AI hearing is messy with both Zeus AI and vanilla). That is, placing AI just outside of the detection distance at night and firing flares will be no different to not firing flares (having the flare shooter neutral to both so that he doesn't mess things up other than lightning up the area).

Protegimus

Apr 25 2010, 13:53

I've prepared updated versions of Zeus AI Combat Skills for ArmA II and for ACE2...but unfortunately the web server isn't serving pages atm. Hopefully something can be sorted out fairly soon.

This is a fairly significant re-write, with the objective of maintaining extended engagements at range, improving the players possibility of covert approach and assessing some of the issues mentioned about the ACE2 version with precision (accuracy) of enemy fire, without destroying the possibility of CQB.

Covert approach has been addressed through the reduction of spotDistance[] =
to less than the normal (1) bound (as discussed and recommended by fabrizio_T), together with fine tuning of class sensitivities.

Many thanks to fabrizio_T for the test mission he provided (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1558871&postcount=348), it has proven very useful.
Using the test setup it was clear to see that to make as covert approach to enemy as possible you either have to move slowly (simply not running will immediately get you around 100m closer before the enemy will see you), use cover and concealment as far as possible, or better - approach from a flank.

The imbalance in the above scenario was largely caused by the moving unit running. To me this is perfectly reasonable, it is easier to spot quick motion and Zeus AI also do so. Somewhat surprisingly, testing with the new version produced almost exactly the same results as with .03 release, in spite of the spotDistance[] = changes.

metalcraze, I tested carelessly approaching enemy AI at night with and without Zeus AI and the AI is basically blind without NV.
I'd be surprised if you can get as close without Zeus, as most other setups have way too sensitive hearing, allowing the AI to detect and pinpoint you even when you're behind solid cover.
The above changes may help once the rounds start flying as there is a lower chance of the AI detecting you, but once you go loud (irrespective of whether you're using a silencer, right?) I expect you'll be getting involved. I'd be interested to know if you see any changes.
If anyone's aware of possibility to change AI's vision at night that would be interesting.

Regarding precision, accuracy has been improved to take ACE2 changes into account. It is now pretty much at the limit of what I want to hard code, fine tuning to ones preference should be done by adjusting profile precision.

Regarding Galzohar's report (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1579339&postcount=371) about the AI missing with AT/RPG, I believe this was an ArmA II bug:
[62868] Fixed: AT/RPG soldiers often missed targets

The update follows ArmA II beta release 69645 which has put the AI back on track to more sensible combat behaviour, features such as:
[60220] Improved: AI covering units tend to stay close to each other

are immediately obvious, AI is religiously using pairs with bounding overwatch. I'd generally prefer to see the AI use a more realistic approach and it would be great if the AI would move behind their buddy rather than crossing anothers arc, but one step at a time...

AI also appears less likely to fire when moving/changing position, resulting in less friendly fire - another welcome improvement.

I wouldn't think the issue reported with missing ground textures would affect a server, so notwithstanding any other dedicated server issues (my testing is limited to a couple of days) we should see much improved co-op gameplay.

Extensive testing has been completed, however it's obviously nothing like the exposure once the mod is on general release, so I do expect some feedback.

Protegimus

Manzilla

Apr 25 2010, 14:06

Sounds exciting. I look forward to it.

Inkompetent

Apr 25 2010, 14:23

Really nice news, Protegimus! Looking forward to next release! :D

galzohar

Apr 25 2010, 20:45

Is it at all possible to control the time you need to be in the AI's LOS before he spots you? Being harder to spot while walking is nice, but only if walking in front of the AI will eventually get you spotted even if you don't move any closer.

If, for example, I'm standing North of an AI and am walking to the west, he should take longer to spot me than if I was running, but should still spot me sooner or later. Just like if you stood in front of me for a while I would eventually spot you even if you're very far away, just not as fast as if you were walking not to mention running.

The main thing I disliked about vanilla AI is that you could stand for unlimited durations outside their detection distance while getting inside their detection distance would get you instantly detected. This resulted in some "dirty" coop tactics taking advantage of it. As in, having unrealistic amounts of time to set up who shoots what and/or to get into proper positions for engaging etc, while realistically you should've had much less time to do that before the enemy would notice you're sitting right in front of him.

It's not that I mind leaving the precision settings up to the user, but still the user can't set different precision for different weapons etc, so (at least) things like snipers (and machinegunners) could really use tuning.

Anyway, great to hear that you're updating this. This is one of the few things that stop me from pulling my hairs playing coop due to how in-humane (mostly in a bad way) the AI is.

MadMike[Brig2010]

Apr 25 2010, 21:36

Great news. Looking forward to next release.

AnimalMother92

Apr 25 2010, 22:28

Sounds great Pro, really looking forward to it.

Tonci87

Apr 25 2010, 22:33

Me and my Clan are really looking forward to this :rthumb:

HateDread

Apr 26 2010, 12:23

I know this is going to sound stupid...

But what is the difference between the common and ACE 2 versions? I assume ACE 2 version is obviously set-up for use with ACE 2?

And so, to get this to work, I just drop in the addon folder it comes in, and activate using AddonSync, and then all AI are changed?

Is there a way to test how good they are/what's different? Any examples?

Cheers for this.

- HateDread.

KeyCat

Apr 26 2010, 16:53

This is a fairly significant re-write, with the objective of maintaining extended engagements at range, improving the players possibility of covert approach...

This was the main reason I quit using this otherwise nice addon. Looking forward to give the next version another try.

Thanks for sharing!

/KC

galzohar

Apr 26 2010, 18:03

I actually liked the idea of it being impossible to "sneak" on the AI while what you really are doing is walking in front of his face and expecting him not to shoot you because you know his detection range is limited to X meters. If the new configs result in more realistic ability to sneak then that's cool, but if it's a simple reduction of detection range when you walk then we will again have people standing in front of AI and telling their squad to maintain walking pace so the AI stays blind even though they are right in front of them and stay in front of them in the open walking for a few minutes. Then again I don't even know if doing this properly is even possible.

KeyCat

Apr 26 2010, 18:11

Just to clarify my personal testings.

When I do covert approaches I do not walk, I slow crawl (usually in a ghillie suit).

/KC

Protegimus

Apr 26 2010, 18:37

Updated versions of Zeus AI Combat Skills for ArmA II and for ACE2 are now available from via the Yoma Addon Sync repository. The Auto config URL is:
http://www.computerrepair.uk.net/updater/ArmA2-repo.7z

Versions are 1.04a for ArmA II and 0.04b for ACE2.

Protegimus

MadMike[Brig2010]

Apr 26 2010, 19:15

Going to test them...

Manzilla

Apr 26 2010, 20:01

F&^k! Can someone get a mirror up? I dont use Yoma, only Six Updater. What is it, like 10mb? Someone throw it up on filefront or something like that. Please, thank you.

Thanks for the update Protegimus!

Inkompetent

Apr 26 2010, 20:43

Awesome news, Protegimus! Now I'm just waiting for the same thing as Manzilla XD

Nomadd

Apr 26 2010, 20:49

Can't wait to try this out, but (like Manzilla) I am also waiting for a mirror.

Nomadd

Hatsune Miku

Apr 26 2010, 21:13

Mirrors:
Standard (z_common) (http://gs01.games.gs.plat.net.au/~arma/mods/@<hidden>)
ACE (zcommon_ace) (http://gs01.games.gs.plat.net.au/~arma/mods/@<hidden>)

Provided by Plat.net.au and AEF

Manzilla

Apr 26 2010, 22:02

Thank you to Hatsune Miku and foxhound at ArmAholic.com for the mirrors.

And most of all, thanks again to Protegimus for continuing this masterpiece. All I can speak for is the ACE2 version but that's a fantastic addition to the game. It's hard to play with out it.

Much respek!

AnimalMother92

Apr 26 2010, 23:15

Thanks a ton for the update, I always play with ZeusAI :)

Inkompetent

Apr 26 2010, 23:38

Sweetness with the mirrors! Had a friend assemble his new computer today that he bought to be able to play ArmA2, so I'm sure to take this out for a spin tomorrow!

Protegimus

Apr 27 2010, 09:59

Thanks to the guys at Armaholic mirrors of the standard downloads are also available (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1484550&postcount=1).

Protegimus

Spork

Apr 27 2010, 10:12

Does zeus work in online servers, for example warfare? As in will my ai have reduced accuracy and hearing, increased awareness when i have the addon installed and i join a server? thanks

metalcraze

Apr 27 2010, 14:33

Looks like night ops in this version were indeed improved. The only guys without NVG who can detect you at considerable distances are snipers which isn't too realistic but ok (probably has something to do with snipers having higher sensitivity variable).
It is possible to sneak on AI too from behind if moving carefully without producing much noise. Or avoid close night patrols by taking cover if you need to sneak onto objective without being detected.

TeilX

Apr 28 2010, 10:11

nice update :yay:
is the sniper more effective now?

Mike84

Apr 28 2010, 11:34

Hey prot, I'm making a mission and I wanted some long range at/atgm engagements in open areas, but spg-9's, kornets and metis-m's can't really do long range engagements.
Hopefully you can tweak that to a more fun setting :)

Jan.K

Apr 30 2010, 13:01

Could a few people name their diff. settings using ZeusAI or you all using whats recommended?

Find it abit hard on a few addon island where AI seem to be shooting me trough the forrest ect

galzohar

Apr 30 2010, 16:47

I don't think AI shooting through bushes on user-made islands has anything to do with Zeus AI. I actually play with maxed skill and while they are hard I don't find them unrealistically hard except for those specific objects that they can see through way too effectively such as certain bushes (see Razani for example - AMAZING island but the AI sees and shoots you through bushes way too often).

Cool=Azroul13

Apr 30 2010, 16:58

the AI sees and shoots you through bushes way too often).

The principal problem of the AI in this game !! :mad:
it will be nice if this problem will be resolved but it's a dream :rolleyes: .

galzohar

Apr 30 2010, 17:05

Some bushes actually have a reasonable ability to block the AI's view, just not all of them, especially in some user-made islands.

touristo

Apr 30 2010, 22:18

Hi Protegimus,

I did read your post in the GL 4 thread and will gladly provide my small testing mission, and do so in the Zeus thread here. Please note I had some minor mods installed when creating it; nothing exotic though, so most ArmA 2 players are likely to have these anyway.

Here comes the link

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DWIJGO6O

Hope it helps, for now I might give the new version of Zeus a try in this here training mission.

Thanks for your continuous effort to improve the one thing that makes even stock ArmA 2 better than any other military-oriented game: the AI.

touristo

Protegimus

May 1 2010, 10:28

Touristo: many thanks, I'll take a look at it today.
For info, could you let me know what mods, skill settings, etc. you have - I want to try and rule out external factors.

Spork: Yes, Zeus AI will work on Warfare servers.

Jan.K: I understand the view block LOD's for trees aren't the same shape as the visual representation, so although you think you're concealed... As Galzohar says, different trees/bushes give you different levels of concealment and that is going to vary even more with addon islands. The other side of the coin is leaves stopping bullets and deflecting grenades/heat rounds, I suppose you could say that levels the playing field in a perverse way!

Some advice when moving is to do so slowly and ideally off axis to the direction the enemy is facing. The AI can't see through trees/bushes, but they can see you through gaps in them and if you're using Zeus AI they are more likely to spot your movement.

Mike: I'll have an update available later today with engagement ranges for the SPG-9 and Metis.

Protegimus

maturin

May 1 2010, 17:33

So how does enemy accuracy with Zeus stack up to ACE2 accuracy? Is it any less?

Andersson[SWEC]

May 2 2010, 04:32

Does this also improve the Player controled AI.
Not only enemy AI need attention and enhancment.

Lonestar

May 2 2010, 07:15

Zeus AI does improve friendly controlled AI but you need to run the addon client side.

Mac_Spliff=ISK=

May 2 2010, 22:33

Not sure, but this might be something...

Each soldier should have another viewing range, like a Scout Spotter sniper should have Long range sightings, and the rest some less sighting range depends on his gear of course
That could make a difference lol...? but go see to find the settings in the scripts for that..
Dunno if possible, but it would make some sense, as the Sighting range should depend on what Unit and what gear is used.... not sure if thats possible ? but that would be like the real thing :) Sighting range depends on the gear and! of course the Expertise
Of a Trained soldier that knows where and how to look.....

Especially sniper's and marksman... they should get Long range settings
a rifle man should have the shortest sighting range he is more the guy
To go clean up buildings and towns...

but hey, Arma is getting realistic enough already heheheheh i love it ....

Good work anyway, busy checking it out, i like the AI even more now...
BUT that medic is not doing his job...like the tune 911 is a joke in your town!!!
(Public enemy) LMAO should get that tune in the MEDEVAC Radio whoehahahahaha

ok ok , cool of now, i go kick some, testing the thing.....

Protegimus

May 3 2010, 12:16

Thanks to touristo's observations (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1576812&postcount=1160), I've fixed a bug in the zeu_cfg_core_ai_sensors module that caused AI to have too sensitive hearing, which was the cause of the player not being able to carry out covert attacks.
Note this did not affect the ACE2 version.

The updated version 1.04b of Zeus AI Combat Skills for ArmA II is available via the Yoma Addon Sync repository. The Auto config URL is:
http://www.computerrepair.uk.net/updater/ArmA2-repo.7z

Protegimus

verde13

May 3 2010, 13:52

mirrors please.

Tonci87

May 3 2010, 15:39

So the ACE Version remains the same?

Foxhound

May 3 2010, 19:52

Manzilla

May 3 2010, 22:08

Note this did not affect the ACE2 version.

I'm pretty sure that's what he means. Only a guess.

Sometimes I think they still have have extra-super hearing but other times everything is perfect. This probably has something to do with me and not the Mod though. ;)

metalcraze

May 5 2010, 15:14

Another thing I've noticed with the mod is that AI stopped having X-Ray vision. I had a chance to see it in yesterday's coop when I and another guy were flanking around the enemy by crawling through the grass. Enemies were providing suppression fire from the town and some managed to flank us from behind. So I was covering back when I saw a guy standing there just less than 100m away, shooting at our last known position, while our cover was only lots of grass. Pretty sweet.

Kroky

May 5 2010, 21:20

Yes the new version is a lot better. (Talking about the ACE2 version) Seems its possible to sneak the enemy again. Started to use it again. Will test it more and report back.

verde13

May 6 2010, 09:37

Yes the new version is a lot better. (Talking about the ACE2 version) Seems its possible to sneak the enemy again. Started to use it again. Will test it more and report back.

Are you referring to the 1.04b release ? Because unless i'm mistaken there is no ACE version for the 1.04b release.

Kroky

May 6 2010, 11:58

Are you referring to the 1.04b release ? Because unless i'm mistaken there is no ACE version for the 1.04b release.

0.04b is for ACE2

Andersson[SWEC]

May 9 2010, 13:40

How hard is it to CODE/Script NEW actions for AI?

Let say i whant the AI MachineGunner to fire in a certain direction.
And use 2 Mags controled/(3-4 shots per aim) fire..

Order EX:

F2, Press M, 6 action "Contr Fire" "Option Mags 2" klick at map have two points maybe between two
trees, then 3-1. 3Fire mode 1Open fire..

Muahaha

May 9 2010, 14:19

I am wondering whether it's GL4 + Zeus AI or just my perception that AI running with these 2 mods together do not response well with the regrouping command or any other "move" command for that matter in comparing with running them individually. If both the mods are run together, the AI seems be very cautious of their surroundings and tends to stop more to observe for enemy.

I have read around that GL4 and Zeus AI is both compatible with each other. Have anyone else experienced these or is there any config that I need to adjust?

Thanks guys...

metalcraze

May 10 2010, 07:16

Muahaha

May 10 2010, 07:35

When your units think it's dangerous they get forced into the "Combat" mode. You can't do anything about it as it's hardcoded afaik. That it happened more often for you with Zeus and GL4 is probably just a coincidence because for me no matter which mod I use the AI is never responsive when there are enemies around equally.

I disagree, it is happening even when all enemies are cleared out, If I use GL4 alone or Zeus alone, they will response to regrouping command quite fast and effective (in comparison to GL4+Zeus). Yes for units that are engaged in enemy firefights or thinks that enemy is around will take abit more time to regroup but not as a whole group. As in my case, they tends to look around and run around in loops and seems to be wandering around.

If everyone seems to be having the same thing I guess i can live with GL4 OR Zeus alone rather than having them both... though the thoughts of having the best of both seems extremely desirable....:D

galzohar

May 10 2010, 11:10

Does the accuracy value really have that much of an effect? I haven't notice much difference between a Zeus AI server set to default skill on expert (skill=1 precision=1 afaik) to the Zeus server which I suppose runs the recommended settings. They still seem to miss just fine with precision of 1?

ray243

May 16 2010, 15:28

Being an idiot, I would like to ask, how do you use this to test for editor? How do I put units with zeus addon? Is there any scripting needed? If yes, how?

wheres my rabbit ?

May 16 2010, 23:27

people wishing to play on the zeus server please note

this addon uses the modfodler @<hidden>
this is NOT the full @<hidden> addon collection, you will still need to download
the rest of it via the yoma addon sync tool.

there has been a few people people joining the server of late with zcommon and getting kicked for not having islands etc.

Terox

May 16 2010, 23:32

Being an idiot, I would like to ask, how do you use this to test for editor? How do I put units with zeus addon? Is there any scripting needed? If yes, how?

Having the addon loaded, eg via a mod folder automatically runs them using the addon. The addon itself reconfigures the settings, overwriting BIS values

galzohar

May 16 2010, 23:46

Having the addon loaded, eg via a mod folder automatically runs them using the addon. The addon itself reconfigures the settings, overwriting BIS values

In other words, you don't need to do anything, all AI will be changed in all missions, whether they were made with Zeus AI or not, so just download/make whatever mission as you would normally and play it with the addon running and it'll work as intended.

galzohar

May 18 2010, 07:21

I'm still noticing some very low accuracy by the AI at longer ranges (100-300 meters). We were engaging a very large force of AI with AK-47s, AK-74s and AK-74 PSOs and they barely hit us as we slowly killed them 1 by 1, while we were armed with just aimpoint HKs and ironsight M4A1s and M249s. It's just too easy to fight against Zeus AI when the ranges are long enough so that they miss yet not too long so that you can actually see them.

Or is it just the AK being crap? Maybe I'll give it another try when arming all enemies with M4A1s and HKs, though I doubt their config values are extremely different than the AK-74s?

metalcraze

May 18 2010, 21:41

I have noticed certain bugs with choppers landing. If the pilot thinks it's dangerous to land he will move the chopper a bit away and will just hang there. Even though nobody fired a single shot at him and there is no real danger.

This doesn't happen in vanilla and already broke a few Zeus coop missions.

galzohar

May 18 2010, 21:47

Maybe it has something to do with the extra detection, so that he detects enemies he wouldn't detect without Zeus AI. Overall I would avoid trusting AI to land helicopters.

Protegimus

May 19 2010, 18:49

I'm still noticing some very low accuracy by the AI at longer ranges (100-300 meters) ... It's just too easy to fight against Zeus AI when the ranges are long enough so that they miss yet not too long so that you can actually see them.
...

It's certainly worth testing with/without ACE2 to see where the problem lies.
Zeus AI have inherently better shooting accuracy than with ACE2 alone, but it is tempered with a more usual level of weapon sway for the AI.
When using ACE2 there are a host of other factors to take into account, especially what appears to be a greater level of dispersion than is accurate.

Protegimus

KrAziKilla

May 19 2010, 18:58

I just tested zeus with ace, and i didnt see any diffrence in the attacking range.
I play on UTES, with viewing distance on 4000 and very good weather.
Placing some enemy units on the hill east of the runway, looking to the west on the runway.

My squad (i am not leader) is running from runway to the east into the enemy. normally the firefight starts at like 300!!! meters.

i hoped to have firefights already around 500 meters, but they are just running and running, and the enemy is just watching and doing nothing.

I changed my profile with the skill and accuracy as its in zeus readme already.
this are my addons. (dont worry, i really called it @<hidden>)
@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;

*edit*
just tested with a hmmvw driving with our group and they spot us on like 500m. but isnt it possible to spot like 15man anyway on this range, even without a car?

Whats wrong here? please help

galzohar

May 19 2010, 20:01

Yeah, I agree ACE weapons definitely have more dispersion than they should have, at least for M4A1s based on my RL experience shooting out to 300m and hitting 100% (at least when you focus properly and rest the weapon on a bipod but that only helps to put the sights on target and doesn't reduce weapon dispersion when the sights are already on target.

Is there any way to make detection simply take longer at longer ranges rather than not happen at all? That way situations such as KrAziKilla describes won't happen, as the only way to stay hidden is to be very far so that the average detection time is extremely long, or simply avoiding to stay visible for too long (and staying visible for any period will have at least *some* chance to get you detected). If possible, that would make a lot more close-to-life detection abilities for the AI.

ray243

May 20 2010, 14:59

Somehow, tha AI still Ain't very smart. I stand right infront of a sniper on a hill 1 km away from me, and all he does is nothing but picking his nose.

galzohar

May 20 2010, 16:05

Yeah, Zeus AI increases detection range, but at very long ranges they still won't see you if you don't open fire (and at even longer ranges they'll even ignore that). Not sure if that can be fixed, though, without making the AI super-human... Protegimus, can you enlighten us whether or not a solution is even possible?

ray243

May 20 2010, 16:33

Thanks for telling!

meade95

May 21 2010, 01:20

New to ARMA - I plan to use this mod/addon - looks great - Question? If I wanted to tweak/adjust some of the ratings after DL Zeus AI....Is that okay to do so? And if so, how do I go about it?

Thanks

DreDay

May 21 2010, 12:57

Somehow, tha AI still Ain't very smart. I stand right infront of a sniper on a hill 1 km away from me, and all he does is nothing but picking his nose.

Please tell me you are being facetious!

Peace,
DreDay

galzohar

May 21 2010, 12:59

"Right in front" means direction-wise, not distance-wise. If you can see him from 1km away, there is no reason for the addon to make him unable to see you.

ray243

May 21 2010, 15:47

"Right in front" means direction-wise, not distance-wise. If you can see him from 1km away, there is no reason for the addon to make him unable to see you.

Argh shit. I meant to say he is facing me 1km away. My bad :P

meade95

May 22 2010, 01:00

Question - If I DL this addon/mod and install. Do I have still have the ability to tweak the skill ratings of units / soldiers in SP? (when creating missions using this mod). I'm new to ARMA (FTR). So might be a dumb question.

Protegimus

May 22 2010, 09:43

meade95: yes, Zeus AI doesn't change the editor behaviour

ray243: give us more information about your test and your expectations

ray243

May 22 2010, 17:48

Aye sir!

nettrucker

May 22 2010, 23:37

Protegimus

May 23 2010, 08:37

Hi Protegimus

Using the first Aid modules. I'm not anymore able to take out injured units from vehicles. Is that something that you could fix?. This happens only when using Zeus, when running vanilla I got no problems with that. Great mod, but the fact that I can't take out injured units from vehicles is a real pitty.
kind regards

I would check again nettrucker with only ACE 2 & Zeus AI loaded as I seriously doubt that Zeus is the cause of this.

Details of how you're testing this would be useful.

Protegimus

nettrucker

May 23 2010, 09:44

Hi Protegimus

I'm not using ACE 2 for the time being and I'm using only a few 3rd party addons. CBA, Islands, VFA. I decided to check out Zeus just a couple of days ago. Very good job you did. I will test it once again because it happened the first time after I used your mod so I guess it is related to that, not sure though since noone else seems to have this problem. I gonna come back with some feedback.
regards

edit 24/05/10:

Hi Protegimus

I did some extensive testing during the whole weekend. There’s nothing wrong with your mod (scripts). My bad and my sincere apologize. I really don’t know what happened. On Saturday I loaded one of my missions and I was play testing the same. It happened 5 times that I was unable to take out injured units out of vehicles when playing with Zeus mod. So I tried a couple of times running vanilla and everything was OK. But everytime I played with Zeus I couldn’t get them out. Yesterday I replayed the same mission a dozen times and everything was fine no problems at all.
This is really weird.:confused:
Once again my apologize your mod works well.
Keep up the good work:D
Kind regards

Birdseye

May 24 2010, 19:03

This mod is the ONE... It's small, effective, doesn't use cba, and is easy to update trough addonsync. Ideal for servers, and clients. Great work!

However, one question Protegimus, you lose the radar in i.e. m1a1, if you have this mod active. Is this intentional?
(1.05 and no other mods, tested in the editor)

Protegimus

May 24 2010, 19:29

nettrucker: thanks for testing further and thanks for posting back.
Don't know if this might help, but if you are using the BIS medic module the problem may lie with how it is being initialised. I understand you only need to link the leader of your force once to the module for it to be active for everyone on your side and the same for OpFor if you want them to be able to use it. You could also try posting in the mission section too for help in resolving it.

Birdseye: correction, zeu_cfg_core_ai_sensors module removes the radar from vehicles that don't have them available.
Move the zeu_cfg_core_ai_sensors.pbo from @<hidden>\Addons to @<hidden> directory to disable it.

Protegimus

Desiderius

Jun 1 2010, 09:41

Hello protegimus,

can you look at the yoma server computerrepair.co.uk ? It seems to be offline. I can not check for updates since a few days.

Greetings

GiorgyGR

Jun 1 2010, 23:06

Hi ProtG
Over the last years i was playing only on PvP but recently i 'v decided to
have a look in SP missions.
(I m currently using ZeusAI(for ACE edition)+ACE+VFTCAS+beta)
SO...while in mission i 've noticed mainly enemy AI was having Significantly
increased capability to see my team -even covered by grass-(and almost every shot was kill) especially
in terrain height differences (lower or higher than me).
Is it something wrong?
I m sorry if that matter has already discussed before,but i didnt have the time to read all posts.
Sorry for that..and for poor use of *English :)

Tonci87

Jun 2 2010, 07:37

AI doesn´t see gras, standart Arma issue

Wastelander

Jun 2 2010, 07:52

AI doesn´t see gras, standart Arma issue

Or rocks, or trees, or buildings... heheheheheheheh :)

And they can't drive of fly for poop!! :rolleyes:

I wonder if this is addressed in Arrowhead ? :confused::681:

HyperU2

Jun 2 2010, 10:42

I'd settle for AI not shooting me in the back as mine just did. :)

GiorgyGR

Jun 3 2010, 04:28

Or rocks, or trees, or buildings... heheheheheheheh :)

And they can't drive of fly for poop!! :rolleyes:

I wonder if this is addressed in Arrowhead ? :confused::681:

lolz (for your comment)

and Cries for your question..

Unfortunately ..neither BIS want to believe (in official way) that A.I always had
those bad bad issues.

Devil Dogs SF

Jun 3 2010, 05:01

I just downloaded this for ACE and have been playing with the AI on Expert....Makes it so much more realistic and provides a much greater challenge without retard AI running about the place. Good job.

Inkompetent

Jun 3 2010, 11:36

Unfortunately ..neither BIS want to believe (in official way) that A.I always had
those bad bad issues.

And what makes you think this? Just because it isn't solved doesn't mean it isn't a known issue. AI is anything but easy to make you know. One *can* make super-advanced awesome AI, but then you might only be able to have 5 AI on the entire map or your CPU will self-terminate from the overload. ;)

GiorgyGR

Jun 3 2010, 14:18

And what makes you think this? Just because it isn't solved doesn't mean it isn't a known issue. AI is anything but easy to make you know. One *can* make super-advanced awesome AI, but then you might only be able to have 5 AI on the entire map or your CPU will self-terminate from the overload. ;)

Well..that's why:
(Follows small part from interview about O.A)
---------------------------------------------------------
Question: Can the AI still aim/Target through trees ,bushes,houses,mountains...
(xxNAMExx): Nonsense
---------------------------------------------------------

..of course the matter about i.e 5 superadvanced A.I etc.
maybe u r right :/

Nephris1

Jun 5 2010, 06:04

Question: Can the AI still aim/Target through trees ,bushes,houses,mountains...
(xxNAMExx): Nonsense
Could u e so kind and post a source for your statement?

Ontopic:
Is this mod still in progress, means are ya still working on it?

Protegimus

Jun 5 2010, 12:32

Nephris1: There are one or two things that I'm thinking about, but they are mainly longer term additions.

GiorgyGR: do you have a repro mission and does the same thing happen in ArmA 2 without Zeus AI?

Re. off topic discussion - better to raise it on the bugtracker.

Protegimus

GiorgyGR

Jun 5 2010, 14:12

@<hidden> http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6934 (8th question from the "end" and up)

@<hidden>
Sorry m8 ..no
TBH after my 1st post here..and what other guyz said,i m convinced that
is Vanilla-root problem after all.
If it is possible to do some "extra adjustments" about this matter in future,
i think the community will be happy.

Oleg-Russia

Jun 5 2010, 19:06

ZEUS AI+ACE with:
skillEnemy=0.89999998;
precisionEnemy=0.2;

IS EPIC , for the FIRST TIME i could fight in CLOSE COMBAT in Arma 2.

ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE !!!!! :)

usarmy19dsniper

Jun 8 2010, 04:20

I am having some issues, I have been using this in the group leader's init line.

{_x setSkill ["aimingAccuracy", 0.1]; _x setSkill ["aimingShake", 0.1]} forEach units group this;

To reduce the accuracy of AI, especially for untrained militia fighters. Now when using Zeus, it seems as it ignoring this line.

Any suggestions?

Nomadd

Jun 8 2010, 22:13

@<hidden>

I have started using DAC 3.0 for my missions. Is there anything special I need to do to make sure Zeus AI works correctly with it. I ask this because of the skill settings in the DAC_Config_behaviors.sqf. DAC will randomize the skill levels of what it spawns based on the settings in the behaviors.sqf. I have made the skill settings in the behavior.sqf the same as what I use in my arma2profile.

Nomadd

Protegimus

Jun 14 2010, 00:20

Some small changes that provide good improvements for the AI in version 0.04e (12.06.2010):
Improved: CfgAiSkill array update to reduce likelyhood of injured AI continuing
an attack and generally improve self-preservation
Improved: AI ability to use lower profile stances and mobility while prone
(thanks Solus)
Improved: AI formation in combat, reduction in AI friendly fire when in
compact column formation and improves firepower facing an enemy

The last point provides a noticeable reduction in friendly fire caused by the AI and fixes an annoying problem, as reported by HyperU2 and others.

The updated version for ACE is available from the Armaholic mirror, link in the first post (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1484550&postcount=1).

Nomadd: I haven't used DAC 3.0, however I expect the two will work fine together. Is the value you set in behaviors.sqf a seed for the random generated value or is DAC doing setSkill stuff?
If the former, I'd probably leave the skill at the default 0.5 as in the editor.

usarmy19dsniper: Assuming everything is correct in the code, I would expect it to work as normal - so far as I know the scripted values will take precendence.

Protegimus

AnimalMother92

Jun 14 2010, 03:16

Thnx for the update :thumbsup:

Kroky

Jun 14 2010, 07:49

Looking forward to the ACE version, thank you!

Foxhound

Jun 14 2010, 10:57

Thanks for sending us the new version :cool:

Release frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8687).

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/3-animation.png (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=xxxx)
Zeus AI Combat Skills & AI Spotting modular - ACE v0.04e (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=xxxx)

http://www.armaholic.com/skins/Blaster07/img/required_addons.png
Advanced Combat Environment 2 - Core (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8602)

thearies

Jun 14 2010, 13:32

great, thanks protegimus

zeus ai is for me the most important feature. BIS said that they have no intention for futher AI improvement then the latest beta patch, so protegimus and solus are my (our) hope ; )

my question:

is it pssible to integrate new orders for the behaviour between apc´s/tank´s and soldiers like:

that the apc allways stay in range of the squad, team etc. and do not drive away to fight the enemy, don´t drive into small streets... even the soldiers should stay in range with apc for safety of heavy firesupport

so possible orders:

1. apc and soldiers moves together and have small range to search, interact etc.

2. apc and soldiers moves together and have medium range...

3. apc and soldiers moves together have long range...

4. apc hold soldiers have small range

5. apc hold soldiers have medium range

6. apc hold soldiers have long range

i thought that could be interesting for tactical movement like in real life

... is that possible ???

greetings thearies

galzohar

Jun 14 2010, 16:40

I like the prone change, but I think you need to tune it down a bit, as I've seen AI try to crawl on what seemed to be an unreasonable distance for the situation he was in.

calo_mir

Jun 14 2010, 16:41

Any chance of getting this lovely thing on the Six updater network?

domokun

Jun 16 2010, 09:46

Protegimus: thanks for the update. Will you also update the non-ACE version?

Erratic

Jun 16 2010, 10:18

Very nice, downloading now!

Protegimus

Jun 16 2010, 22:37

Protegimus: thanks for the update. Will you also update the non-ACE version?

Sure - I should be able to get a build out in the next few days.

thearies: interesting ideas and although not really the focus of what I'm working on/developing at present, maybe one for the future.

lwlooz recently built something with related features for High Command to specifically improve movement of AI under the control of a human player. I can't speak for him of course, but you might run the idea past him.

galz: Thanks for the feedback mate, I'll definitely monitor that. It's still relatively early days since the update and I'm seeing some positive improvements during combat so I won't make any immediate change. If the tendency is more than an occasional random crawling a half marathon then I'll relax the configuration.

Protegimus