PC Discussion Thread II - All PC related discussion goes here.

[4 IN 1]

US only? Me pass.


Update: After looking at the price of i7and compare the performance with my old work horse Q9650, I think for the time being I will just sticking with my Q9650, overclocking a bit and only move to a new case, PSU, new water cool system, add some RAM, OR may be even a 120GB SSD or 2:p (with the money that needed for a faster CPU + MB +RAM that don't come with built in gpu, yeah thats a better way.)

Update 2: My new system is up and running! After switching the case and having some hairy moment when installing the new SSD(have to say, those tinny SSDs looks and sounds like they will break anytime if too much force applyed), I do run into problem when using USB to try to install pre-loaded SP1 and have format/creat/delete partitions(which is NOT a good thing to do on a SSD...)so I when on install windows from the disk. I could only hope that my mishandle of SSD won't destory the SSD....FPDR

[RealBigSwede]

I have a zboard and would love to have a help to make a "Ideazon Mods" for it I have tried and I just screws it up. Anyone like to help me.. I have checked and dl all modes in the zboards update part but no Arma, Arma2 mods, I like to learn to use the keyboard I have always played with controller but it have so many restrictions.
Thanks In advanced,
RBS

[BoneBoys]

People, I'm going to upgrade my computer.

It will be an i52500k with 8g of ram.
The problem that I have is which Intel chipset/MB should I go for.
The latest Z68 or the older P8P67.
Now, good sense tells me that I should go with the latest Z68 with the intergrated graphics available.

So the finished rig should look something like this :
Asus (P8Z68 or P8P67) MB
i52500k
8 g ram
460 gtx
Win7 64x.

The question =has anybody any experience with the new Z68 boards and does the intergrated graphic cause problems in anyway.

Thanks for any feedback...

[PuFu]

The latest Z68 or the older P8P67.
Now, good sense tells me that I should go with the latest Z68 with the intergrated graphics available.
The Z68 is how the P67 should have been. I had a P67 board before my current z68. There is no difference in performance, just got it because i was thinking about a SSD...


So the finished rig should look something like this :
Asus (P8Z68 or P8P67) MB
i52500k
8 g ram
460 gtx
Win7 64x.

The question =has anybody any experience with the new Z68 boards and does the intergrated graphic cause problems in anyway.

Thanks for any feedback...
There is no problem with the integrated boards (i have another p67 board for some sort of server, running of the integrated gfx board via (the one and nly) hdmi output)....

[BoneBoys]

Thanks PuFu for the reply.

I'v gone with what I have in my pocket :
i5 2500k
Asus P8Z68-V LX
8 go of ram.

I have already...

Nv460 gtx
SB X-Fi gamer
500 giga IBM/Hitachi HD
Track IR5
G5 gaming mouse
X4 sidewinder KB
5+1 SB speaker set.
..............................................
An SSD (320(?) in the near future.

Moved over from an E8400 2core @<hidden> and 4 go of ddr2.

I'll let you know if I'm impressed or not

[CTCCoco]

I'm planning to buy a new computer, my old computed is 7 years old, with an epic AMD Athlon 64 3700+.

I have select some components, but I'm not sure if this will run ArmA 3 smoothly...


AMD FX 6100.

8 gb RAM DDR3 HyperX 1600 Kingston.

AMD Radeon HD 6870 1GB GDDR5 shappire.

Normal HDD with 500gb.
It'll be enough? What's your opinion about ArmA 3 requeriments?

Thank you!

[Bee8190]

That build look solid alright but if you can wait for the latest of HW I'd strongly suggest to wait.

AMD will be realeasing some more / revisited CPU's later this year afaik + intel new 22nm architecture will most definitely kick ass.

My advice - wait, even if you **can't**.A month or two before A3 Apha realease should be enough, plus WE will know by than a lot more about HW reqiurements

[MissileMoose]

I'm planning to buy a new computer, my old computed is 7 years old, with an epic AMD Athlon 64 3700+.

I have select some components, but I'm not sure if this will run ArmA 3 smoothly...


AMD FX 6100.

8 gb RAM DDR3 HyperX 1600 Kingston.

AMD Radeon HD 6870 1GB GDDR5 shappire.

Normal HDD with 500gb.
It'll be enough? What's your opinion about ArmA 3 requeriments?

Thank you!

That should be enough to run ArmA 3, though nobody could be certain about what performance would be like.

AMD's Bulldozer was a huge let-down so to guarantee decent performance, I would go with an i5 2500k or similar from the soon to be released 'Ivy Bridge' series. As for the graphics card, I would seriously consider buying one from Nvidia. I upgraded from a single 6870 to a duel card setup, performance worsened significantly. Taking into account the bad driver support from AMD (My opinion), my future builds will only contain Nvidia cards. That's until I hear about improvements from AMD's side. A Solid State Drive would also be a very wise investment. Crucial M4's are very good all-rounders. Bulldozer review (http://beta.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/processors/amd-fx-6100-black-edition-1044580/review?artc_pg=3).

I'm unsure of your budget, but I've put together a few components below with a total of £1000 in mind.

YOUR BASKET
1 x MSI GeForce GTX 560Ti OC Twin FrozR II 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £219.95
1 x Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM £161.99
1 x Asrock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £144.98
1 x Corsair Graphite 600T Midi Tower Case - Limited Edition White £139.99
1 x Corsair Enthusiast Series TX750M High Performance 750W '80 Plus Bronze' Modular Power Supply (CP-9020003-UK) £99.98
1 x Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (CT064M4SSD2) £77.99
1 x Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX) £63.98
1 x Corsair Hydro H60 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (Socket LGA2011/1366/1155/1156/775/AM2/AM3) £62.99
1 x Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9) £39.95
2 x Akasa AK-FN058 Apache Black Super Silent 120mm Fan - 4 Pin PWM £13.99 (£27.98)
Total : £1,057.49.


----------

You could probably save some more money on the graphics card if you wait until the new 'Kepler' card series has been released from Nvidia. That would probably mean waiting until April/May. By doing so, you would almost certainly save money on other products in the list above. Please note that the two fans would replace current ones on the CPU cooler (Corsair H60), they would increase airflow and in-turn, cooling performance for Overclocking. RAM/Memory is also very cheap at the moment, so adding another 8GB pack would be recommended. However, the increased HDD prices make up for your saving. The current situation in Thailand is to blame, poor buggers.

I have taken out the product links as I do not want to directly advertise. Prices have been taken from Overclockers UK.

I do hope this helps.

[Shinko47]

I have a question I discovert arma last summer a buy a pc a pay 450 for this pc and I play whit minimum graphique and this pc broke so i will buy a new pc and I whont to know if this pc will work whit arma 2 and 3
This is the pc

Stunning graphics for your games: Achieve game-winning performance from your graphics — the new Aurora can support dual graphics cards up to 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 69503.
Ultimate power under your control: Hurl yourself into the action with the powerful processing capabilities of the new Aurora, featuring the Intel® Six Core™ 3000 series CPUs.
Amazing chassis at your command: With a huge capacity for upgrades, brilliant internal component layout and liquid cooling for a high-performance processor, you can take charge of this gaming powerhouse and make it your own

[Shinko47]

I have a question I discovert arma last summer a buy a pc a pay 450 for this pc and I play whit minimum graphique and this pc broke so i will buy a new pc and I whont to know if this pc will work whit arma 2 and 3
The pc is the neuw alienware aurora

Stunning graphics for your games: Achieve game-winning performance from your graphics — the new Aurora can support dual graphics cards up to 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 69503.
Ultimate power under your control: Hurl yourself into the action with the powerful processing capabilities of the new Aurora, featuring the Intel® Six Core™ 3000 series CPUs.
Amazing chassis at your command: With a huge capacity for upgrades, brilliant internal component layout and liquid cooling for a high-performance processor, you can take charge of this gaming powerhouse and make it your own.

[froggyluv]

^^^ Alienware is overpriced. Try building one here http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/


Here is an example build for similar price of that Alien Aurora but with watercooling, 23" Widescreen Monitor, 8gb's 1600 DDR3, a 3gb 7950 video card and I7 3930k Six Core. (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1DYREX). Imo you can get a better build for even cheaper if you mix and match just right.

[MissileMoose]

I have a question I discovert arma last summer a buy a pc a pay 450 for this pc and I play whit minimum graphique and this pc broke so i will buy a new pc and I whont to know if this pc will work whit arma 2 and 3
The pc is the neuw alienware aurora

Stunning graphics for your games: Achieve game-winning performance from your graphics — the new Aurora can support dual graphics cards up to 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon™ HD 69503.
Ultimate power under your control: Hurl yourself into the action with the powerful processing capabilities of the new Aurora, featuring the Intel® Six Core™ 3000 series CPUs.
Amazing chassis at your command: With a huge capacity for upgrades, brilliant internal component layout and liquid cooling for a high-performance processor, you can take charge of this gaming powerhouse and make it your own.

Hello,

Welcome to the forum. Please read the rules (http://forums.bistudio.com/misc.php?do=vsarules) and avoid spamming.

To answer your question in short, it most probably will. However Dell Alienware are massively over-priced and shocking. The only reason Dell are still selling Alienware products is because they lure in those who are not hardware-literate. If you could provide the forum with your budget and need of any computer peripherals (monitor, keyboard, mouse, operating system ect) we will happily assist in specifying you the components for you to build yourself. This will work out much cheaper than a pre-built system, as you cut out the middle man who needs to be paid for building it. We'll also happily assist you in the build of the machine itself, though there are hundreds of tutorials online.

tl;dr - Alienware is overpriced, avoid it like the plague. Everybody else here would.

---------- Post added at 03:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 AM ----------


3gb 7950 video card and I7 3930k Six Core

Just some constructive criticism here, I hope you don't mind. :)

Firstly, if the rumours about Nvidia's Kepler are true (performance wise) then AMD would be expected to drop their prices to compete with their competition. It would be a very wise move to wait until the Kepler (Nvidia GTX 6XX) series is fully released, then you could decide which route to go down. There are also some rumours about SandyBridge-E and IvyBridge-E compatability, if they were true then it would mean that you could upgrade to IB-E using the current X79 based motherboards for SB-E. So in my opinion it would be wise to go for the 3820 if you had to buy it right now, depending on the performance of IB-E of course. There is still no reason not to go with an i5 2500k or i7 2700k - save money and get a decent monitor.

[Shinko47]

thank you. but I not good in computer and I am redy to pay 1000 to 2000 so if you got a idea juste show my were I can buy it :) sorry for my mistake I speek francait and I try to learn my anglish

[froggyluv]

Just some constructive criticism here, I hope you don't mind. :)

Firstly, if the rumours about Nvidia's Kepler are true (performance wise) then AMD would be expected to drop their prices to compete with their competition. It would be a very wise move to wait until the Kepler (Nvidia GTX 6XX) series is fully released, then you could decide which route to go down. There are also some rumours about SandyBridge-E and IvyBridge-E compatability, if they were true then it would mean that you could upgrade to IB-E using the current X79 based motherboards for SB-E. So in my opinion it would be wise to go for the 3820 if you had to buy it right now, depending on the performance of IB-E of course. There is still no reason not to go with an i5 2500k or i7 2700k - save money and get a decent monitor.

Not at all. I agree and would more then likely get what I have now - the I5 2500k. To add the 7950 was only like $170.00 or so which seems like a very good option above the 6950 he was looking at. Of course waiting to see how Kepler performs is wise and prudent but if he ready to Alien -well, lets just say the words don't always have much meaning in dem circles ;P

SHINKO47: Ill help you build one from that site if you want -just gotta tell me what you prefer in terms of components and also what you'd like to spend.

[MissileMoose]

thank you. but I not good in computer and I am redy to pay 1000 to 2000 so if you got a idea juste show my were I can buy it :) sorry for my mistake I speek francait and I try to learn my anglish


Not at all. I agree and would more then likely get what I have now - the I5 2500k. To add the 7950 was only like $170.00 or so which seems like a very good option above the 6950 he was looking at. Of course waiting to see how Kepler performs is wise and prudent but if he ready to Alien -well, lets just say the words don't always have much meaning in dem circles ;P

SHINKO47: Ill help you build one from that site if you want -just gotta tell me what you prefer in terms of components and also what you'd like to spend.

It would be best if he build it himself, as said above it would cut out the middle man so he wouldn't have to pay for the labour. Depending on his location, he could purchase from somewhere like Newegg, NCIX or Overclockers UK. Shink, could you please reply with your current location? :)

[Shinko47]

Canada Quebec Montréal :D

[froggyluv]

Absolutely building your own is without question the best route as you really save alot of money, learn new skillz about how things work and where they go. Its a great hobby -but not for everyone as well. Personally I get all parts from NewEgg without a second though and try to do speed builds -under 19 minutes till it'll post (forget Windows install)

[MissileMoose]

Absolutely building your own is without question the best route as you really save alot of money, learn new skillz about how things work and where they go. Its a great hobby -but not for everyone as well. Personally I get all parts from NewEgg without a second though and try to do speed builds -under 19 minutes till it'll post (forget Windows install)

Speed builds aren't my forte unfortunately. It probably takes me longer to build it than it does to specify the parts, and I'm picky when it comes to choosing components. :p

Spec:

YOUR BASKET
1 x XFX HD 7950 Double D Edition 3072MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £389.99
1 x Intel Core i5-2550K 3.40GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM £173.99
1 x Asrock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £144.98
1 x Corsair Graphite 600T Midi Tower Case - Limited Edition White £139.99
1 x Corsair Enthusiast Series TX 850W V2 High Performance '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply (CMPSU-850TXV2UK) £104.99
1 x Corsair Hydro H80 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (Socket LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366/LGA2011/AM2/AM3) £84.98
1 x Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (CT064M4SSD2) £77.99
1 x Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual/Quad Channel Kit (CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9) £73.99
1 x Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX) £63.98
Total : £1,272.59 (includes shipping : £14.75).

http://i.imgur.com/KjD7C.png

If I were in your shoes and had to purchase right this second, the above is probably what I would go for. Minus the graphics card. I would still wait for the release of Kepler and IvyBridge from Nvidia and Intel.

[froggyluv]

Friend of mine just bought a PC from CyberPC yesterday and is very happy with the increase in Arma playability.

This build cost only $1038.00 (extra discount if you type 'myspace' in the codebox. http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Gamer_Xtreme_1000_SE/

[jacknorrisuk]

I'm currently using a HP Envy 17-1190 laptop for my Arma-ing, well, and most other things too. It runs Arma2 extremely well for a laptop, but then its not exactly a portable laptop. I would be playing it on my desktop computer, but for some reason Arma 2 has some severe difficulties being friends with the 9800 GTX + Windows 7...

[4 IN 1]

with my new spec up and running, I have discover a slight problem when I try to play a blu ray disk, as I tried all available player on the market all of them fail to play the disk with proper colour, which ended up overly dim and have wried colour polarization, I have tried all the driver for my display card driver, but none of them fix the problem, while dvd and all other format are played normally, anyone have an idea on what is wrong ?

[PuFu]

with my new spec up and running, I have discover a slight problem when I try to play a blu ray disk, as I tried all available player on the market all of them fail to play the disk with proper colour, which ended up overly dim and have wried colour polarization, I have tried all the driver for my display card driver, but none of them fix the problem, while dvd and all other format are played normally, anyone have an idea on what is wrong ?
You really need to put more info on the bolded parts:
what is your spec, what is your driver, what software are you using for playing dvds and blue-rays

[4 IN 1]

Windows 7 64bit
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650
Gigabyte EP43T-UD3L
12GB DDR3 SDRAM
HIS AMD RADEON HD7970
1X Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD
1X Seagate 160GB HDD
1X Seagate 320GB HDD
Lite-on iHES212 Blu-ray drive

The only thing that worth notice is the new HD7970 that I mentioned just a few page ago
by all version of available driver I mean ALL available driver for 7970
and by all available software I mean ALL available software that is possible to get my hands on

[JdB]

I'm looking for a laptop for my parents. The only things they want to do with it is browse the internet, e-mail, write some letters, watch non-HD Youtube videos, very basic stuff. A built-in webcam is also necessary since we have some family abroad but it doesn't have to be a fancy one, and they're not interested in gaming. The budget is €400 max for at least a 15,6" laptop. I've been looking at some shops and then CPU benchmark sites, and the best performing CPU in this pricerange seems to be the i3-370M (on average about 30-40% better), the AMD E-300 and E-450 are far more common, but they come out really poorly in every benchmark I've seen so far. The main trade-off seems to be either an i3-370M with 320GB HDD or E-300/E-450 with 500GB. As simple tasks do not require that much space, I'd prefer a faster CPU.

HP Compaq Presario CQ57-366SD
Processor: Intel Core i3-370M (2,4 GHz)
Cores: 2
Chipset: Intel HM55 Express
RAM: 4 GB RAM (1333 MHz)
Graphics: Intel HD Graphics
Shared graphical memory: Dynamic Video Memory Technology 5.0
HDD: 320 GB (5400 rpm)
HDD type: Serial ATA-300
Screen size: 15,6 inch
Resolution: 1366 x 768 pixels
Screen type: TFT actieve matrix, HD BrightView
Optical drive: Dual-layer dvd+/-r/rw drive
Operating system: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (since they are pretty much newbies and therefore unbiased in their OS choice, I am considering to install a basic Linux version like Xubuntu instead so the chances of me having to reinstall because of a mountain of viruses and malware every week is much smaller)
Battery type: Lithium-ion (6-cell)
Flash memory cards supported: SD, MultiMediaCard
WLAN (standards): 802.11b/g/n
Other: Bluetooth, card reader, integrated webcam and microphone, headphone, 3x USB 2.0, VGA, LAN (RJ-45)

Is the above a good choice, or do you know of any better options I should be looking at? This one costs €399.

Does anyone have any bad experiences with certain brands? (product quality or support)

[kmossco]

The Core i3 is way better than the AMD part. And for 399 I don't think you can find much better than that.

[colossus]

Does anyone have experience with the new LGA2011 socket yet?

I'm looking to buy a Core i7 3820 but I can't find a lot of CPU coolers that support LGA2011. There are some of them, of course; like Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 or Zalman CNPS12X, but I'm looking for more options. I got a Antac 900 (Nine Hundred) cabinet, if that helps.

[PuFu]

i know bangtail has a six core 3830k.
Anyways, looking around some reviews, i really see NO point in grabbing a quad core 3820 instead of a cheaper i7 2600/2700k, minus if you really need to push it to 32gb of ram. (opposed to 16 which is plenty in 99% of the cases)

In terms of coolers, the new entries for Corsair Hydro series - does support it (h60/h70/h80/h100). I do recommend any of them.

[BangTail]

As Pufu said - Most of the Corsair series coolers will fit the LGA 2011 - That's what I am using.

[Bee8190]

Just wondering if anyone gotten the all new GTX 680 and could share their impressions on how Arma performs?

Its propably only me, but I expected little more raw power from the green house to be quite honest but features of the new series are sure sweet! Still, might wait for 670 series though

Cheers

[BangTail]

Just wondering if anyone gotten the all new GTX 680 and could share their impressions on how Arma performs?

Its propably only me, but I expected little more raw power from the green house to be quite honest but features of the new series are sure sweet! Still, might wait for 670 series though

Cheers

I have 2 EVGAs on the way - don't know when they will arrive because they are usually the most sought after due to 'step up' which I will use in this case to move to the 4GB model (when it appears in ~2 months).

I'm not surprised at their strategy (if they are to be believed) and if the GK-104 is any indication of what the GK-110 will be later on this year, then I'd say it's going to be a good year for Nvidia.

For Nivida to beat AMD across the board (Performance, TDP, features and price is not the way things usually play out. Most often, Nvidia has the fastest card, but more power hungry and more expensive.

*EDIT*

Switched to Zotac as the ETA on EVGA is 3-4 weeks :(

[RangerPL]

There is an ArmA 2 benchmark for the GTX 680 here: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/03/22/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-2gb-review/8

Seems that it loses to the HD7970, but that's on the earliest version of the drivers. I think the 256-bit memory interface is bottlenecking it.

[BangTail]

Said it several times in other threads, numbers are really irrelevant in this case. My 7970's pinned 60FPS in ArmA 2 but what I saw on screen was an awful stuttering mess (confirmed by other users on these forums). I can't speak for the 680s yet as they haven't arrived but the 580s run ArmA 2 flawlessly.

[Kommiekat]

Could someone kindly tell me what Arma files and folders should go into the RAMDisk?

I have no idea. Thanks!

[Bee8190]

Thanks for the link Ranger.

@<hidden> - I decided to wait for 670 or even 560Ti follower as im quite cheapo hehe, nontheless I'm looking forward to your experience with two of these in hope to change my mind :p

[Tonci87]

Guys I have a little Printer Problem. My Canon MP270 refuses to print documents.
A few weeks ago the original black canon cartridge PG510 was nearly empty so I bought a refill set and filled it up again. Everything worked fine. Now if I try to print something black, a document for example, I get nothing printed on the paper. My PC is telling me that the cartridge is empty. The funny thing is that If I try to print a test sheet everything works fine and the black boxes are there too. Does anybody know how I can teach my printer to follow my orders again?

[MissileMoose]

Just purchased the following components from Overclockers UK for a new build.

http://i.imgur.com/PRXkz.png

It came to just under £2100 including 20% VAT, which is around $3410. It's quite a pricey build, though it should last for a couple of years. I'll post up some benchmarks (Stock and Overclocked) and build pictures when it's finished. I still haven't received the parts yet, the case and graphics card aren't in stock at the moment so the shipment is being delayed. My resolution is 2560x1440 so I thought 4GB of GDDR5 would perform better with Anti-Aliasing.

Do we have any 4GB 680 owners in here? If so, what's your performance like in games?

[Shashman]

£329 for a case... :j:

My whole system is worth less than that, and ArmA2 runs fine, as well as every other game I play.

[MissileMoose]

£329 for a case... :j:

My whole system is worth less than that, and ArmA2 runs fine, as well as every other game I play.

Sadly I'm a sucker for a nice case, sadly for my wallet that is. Out of interest what is your system specification?

The case, graphics card and a couple of braided cables are being sent to follow as they're out of stock. I'll have some screen shots later of the boxed hardware later on today. :)

[Tonci87]

Well I paid 80€ for my case, and even that seemed a little bit too much. But a good case is actually quite important.
http://www.coolermaster.de/product.php?product_id=6649
Now I have a solid case (most of it is metal, not plastic) it keeps my hardware cool and looks good. I can definately recommend it to everyone.

[Shashman]

Definitely, a good quality case is important, for good airflow, cable management, build quality, durability, but the most I've ever spent on a case was £100 for my old Antec Twelve Hundred (which was excellent, and an award winner).

I'm a bit out of the loop for PC hardware, it's been over 2 years since my last build, but I remember the Antec 300 being a good quality and value for money choice.

Speaking of being out of the loop, I'm currently on the hunt for a new motherboard and processor. I've decided to go with AMD and will probably be getting a Phenom II X4 965 or 960T, but I just can't choose which motherboard to go for. My budget this month is quite low, no more than £45, and I've got a few shortlisted. What are your opinions on the following:

Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2-FX-3.1 GeForce 7025 Socket AM3+ 7.1 Channel HD Audio mATX Motherboard: £31.81

Biostar A960G+ 760G Socket AM3+ VGA 6 Channel Audio mATX Motherboard: £33.80

MSI 760GM-P23 (FX) Socket AM3+ VGA DVI 7.1 Channel Audio mATX Motherboard: £35.49

Asus M5A78L-M LE Socket AM3+ 760G Onboard VGA DVI 8 Channel Audio mATX Motherboard: £42.06

[MissileMoose]

Definitely, a good quality case is important, for good airflow, cable management, build quality, durability, but the most I've ever spent on a case was £100 for my old Antec Twelve Hundred (which was excellent, and an award winner).

I'm a bit out of the loop for PC hardware, it's been over 2 years since my last build, but I remember the Antec 300 being a good quality and value for money choice.

Speaking of being out of the loop, I'm currently on the hunt for a new motherboard and processor. I've decided to go with AMD and will probably be getting a Phenom II X4 965 or 960T, but I just can't choose which motherboard to go for. My budget this month is quite low, no more than £45, and I've got a few shortlisted. What are your opinions on the following:

Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2-FX-3.1 GeForce 7025 Socket AM3+ 7.1 Channel HD Audio mATX Motherboard: £31.81

Biostar A960G+ 760G Socket AM3+ VGA 6 Channel Audio mATX Motherboard: £33.80

MSI 760GM-P23 (FX) Socket AM3+ VGA DVI 7.1 Channel Audio mATX Motherboard: £35.49

Asus M5A78L-M LE Socket AM3+ 760G Onboard VGA DVI 8 Channel Audio mATX Motherboard: £42.06

If I were in your shoes, I'd purchase the Asus motherboard. I prefer their style of boards (Especially ROG series) and have yet to experience any issues. People tend to stick with certain brands for motherboards, for me it's Asus.

If you plan on upgrading for Arma 3, I would seriously recommend going with an Intel build and Nvidia graphics card. While it's more expensive, the difference between a Phenom II and Sandybridge or IvyBridge chip is day and night. You probably saw my current specification before I updated my signature, in case you didn't I'm running a Phenom II X6 1090t with two AMD Radeon HD 6870s in CrossfireX. AMD (Formerly ATI) drivers have a bad reputation, especially with CrossfireX. If I run with both cards enabled, I get around ten frames per second less than I do with a single card in Arma 2. Their processors are more suited towards light gaming and general use.

It all comes down to what you're going to use your computer for. Just remember that the minimum/recommended system specifications for Arma 3 will be somewhat obsolete when people start building heavy missions.

Just make sure you have sufficient cooling, if you plan on using the above processor for Arma 3 you may need to overclock quite a bit to get decent performance.

[Shashman]

Thanks for the reply.

My 8800GTX will have to hold out for a few more months, as motherboard and cpu are top priorities at the moment. I say 'hold out', but considering its age, it's still a very capable GPU.

I've decided to go down the AMD route as the value for money aspect just can't be ignored. I've been using a Phenom II X2 250 for the past couple of months and it seems fine. I'd actually keep it for longer and save up for an even better CPU than the Phenom II X4 965, but I'm using a mate's motherboard and CPU and he'll be needing them back soon

[JdB]

I'm trying to pick memory for my new build. Now for the latency, 8GB with CL8 or 12GB with CL9 are fairly even in terms of pricing, is the difference in speed (actually noticeable, not just a statistical difference) between CL8 and CL9 that significant that I would be better of getting less RAM but with a lower latency?

Are Ti models of NVIDIA cards worth the extra investment over the regular models? (quite a big difference in pricing while the benchmarks I've seen aren't all that far apart)

I'm not going to OC anything, and I don't want to max out AA and AF either.

[kmossco]

Thanks for the reply.

My 8800GTX will have to hold out for a few more months, as motherboard and cpu are top priorities at the moment. I say 'hold out', but considering its age, it's still a very capable GPU.

I've decided to go down the AMD route as the value for money aspect just can't be ignored. I've been using a Phenom II X2 250 for the past couple of months and it seems fine. I'd actually keep it for longer and save up for an even better CPU than the Phenom II X4 965, but I'm using a mate's motherboard and CPU and he'll be needing them back soon

Dunno how are the prices in UK, but an Intel Core i3 2120 is almost the same price as a Phenom II X4 and in most reviews they are head-to-head. BUT, in the Core i3 path you can later (when you have more money) upgrade to an i5 or even i7. That would be my bet.

[Shashman]

Well, thanks for the suggestions so far. I've had a slight change of heart.

(copy-pasted from another forum)

Hi guys!

I'm currently running the following system:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X2 250
Motherboard: Gigabyte M68M-S2P
RAM: Corsair XMS2 2GB DDR2
Graphics: 8800GTX

I'm after an upgrade, sooner rather than later (hence the 'low' budget), as both the CPU and mobo are borrowed from a mate, who'll be wanting them back soon.

Now I've done a bit of research, and after originally wanting to go down the AMD (Phenom II X4 965) route, I've come to the conclusion that I'd be better off going down the Intel route, specifically the i5 2500K CPU, as it's supposedly the best in terms of bang for buck for gaming. Am I correct or is there another suitable option?

I mention gaming, as that's what the upgrade is mainly to cater for. I play ArmA 2 and will be getting ArmA 3 when that's out. To be fair to my current rig, it runs ArmA 2 at a playable level. I suppose I have the 8800GTX to thank for that. I'll also be reinstalling FSX soon.

I'm back in the tech game after an absence of 2 years (last build is the one in my sig), and therefore, very much out of my depth and confused, so if you could spec me up a few options, explaining your choices, that'd be appreciated.

I don't need a case, don't think I'll need a new PSU (currently have a Hiper Type R 500w, I think, not sure of the wattage off the top of my head, but it's no lower than that), I have a copy of Win 7 64Bit so no OS needed, will need a new HDD (if I can get an SSD included in the spec then great, otherwise not too fussed), and will need a GPU which is a good performer and relatively future-proof (no preference, either AMD or nVidia, whatever runs best)

Think that just about covers it, otherwise ask away, and cheers!



( Sorry, I know that's cheeky but hey, it's 01:16! :P )

[MissileMoose]

Well, thanks for the suggestions so far. I've had a slight change of heart.

Snip.

Hello again,

I'm glad you've had a change of heart and wish to go down the Intel route, I highly doubt you will be disappointed. The SandyBridge i5 2500k is a decent processor and probably the most recommended too. You may however wish to look into IvyBridge, which is the latest series from Intel. As for the graphics card it really does depend on your budget. I'd like to recommend a newer card, simply because of their updated technologies but you can get older cards with similar amounts of power. Also while I'm on the topic of power, the number one rules when specifying parts for a computer is not to skimp on the power supply. I have read many stories of people using dodgy power supplies and ending up with fried components. I recommend two main brands, Corsair and XFX. The most important thing is the OEM, SeaSonic and CWT are decent.

Send me your budget and I'd be happy to throw some parts together for you. :)

[PuFu]

I'm trying to pick memory for my new build. Now for the latency, 8GB with CL8 or 12GB with CL9 are fairly even in terms of pricing, is the difference in speed (actually noticeable, not just a statistical difference) between CL8 and CL9 that significant that I would be better of getting less RAM but with a lower latency?

Are Ti models of NVIDIA cards worth the extra investment over the regular models? (quite a big difference in pricing while the benchmarks I've seen aren't all that far apart)

I'm not going to OC anything, and I don't want to max out AA and AF either.
There should be no noticeable difference between CL8 and CL9 memory. If i were you, i would get the more memory CL9.
regarding 12 or 8 gig of ram, most of todays MBs are dual or quad channel. That means you should either get 8 gig or 16 gig. (i suppose the 12 gb of ram is 3 sticks of 4gb, and unless you got a 1366 MB/proc planned - which you shouldn't anymore, you got LGA2011 replacing those these days) grab 4 sticks of 4 gig @<hidden> Shouldn't be over expensive.

Regarding 560Ti models. I have 1 at home (2gb), and 3 at the office (2x1gb, 1x2gb). There seem to have some real problems (pink screens of death) with the latest nvidia driver 210.96, but once i rolled back to 256.xx version, all these stopped. Seems nvidia doesn't wanna take responsibility for the fuck up though.
I would assume there will be a fix in the upcoming 301.xx drivers.

If i were you, i would wait a few for the 660 or 670 series. See if you have the option to RMA to a newest version via EVGA upgrade program (need to read up on their clauses and check if you are eligible before you go for a purchase).



Well, thanks for the suggestions so far. I've had a slight change of heart.

(copy-pasted from another forum)

Hi guys!

I'm currently running the following system:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X2 250
Motherboard: Gigabyte M68M-S2P
RAM: Corsair XMS2 2GB DDR2
Graphics: 8800GTX
My suggestion:
Z77 MB
I5 2500K CPU
8GB ram
6950 or 560TI. See if you can find an AMD 7850 card for a comparable price. You should be able to upgrade its bios to 7870.

[Shashman]

Cool, thanks for the advice!

Yep, fully aware of the importance of quality PSU's. I want a BeQuiet Darkpower one like I had 2 years ago, but seems they're quite hard to come by these days, at least on the online retailer sites I usually use (ebuyer, overclockers). If I can't get my hands on one, I'm guessing the Corsair Professional series would be a good bet.

As for the CPU, what about the Ivybridge i5 3570K? It costs the same as the i5 2500K.

560Ti is looking very tempting, and it seems to outperform the AMD equivalents so I'll probably go for that.

As for motherboard, I'm leaning towards ASUS but that's just because I've used their stuff a lot in the past. Gigabyte is also looking decent and being recommended. Which motherboard would you recommend?

Sorry for all the questions!

[PuFu]

Cool, thanks for the advice!

Yep, fully aware of the importance of quality PSU's. I want a BeQuiet Darkpower one like I had 2 years ago, but seems they're quite hard to come by these days, at least on the online retailer sites I usually use (ebuyer, overclockers). If I can't get my hands on one, I'm guessing the Corsair Professional series would be a good bet.
Corsair, Antec, Enermax(although a bit expensive), Thermatake , OCZ.

I recently got a Corsair PSU for a LGA2011 i7 3820 build at my office, and was pretty happy with how silent it runs.


As for the CPU, what about the Ivybridge i5 3570K? It costs the same as the i5 2500K.
You should be checking the reviews. All in all, i think it's a better bet, since it is a newer architecture (although i might not outperform the 2500K. if the price is the same, i don't see why not).
I personally have no experience with the i5s (minus the mobile ones). I always went for the I7s (in my line of work, more cores/threads = the better - see my spoiler in my signature).
Even the workstations at work are all but one(xeon) based on i7s 2600k/i7 3820.


560Ti is looking very tempting, and it seems to outperform the AMD equivalents so I'll probably go for that.
again, if you are not in a rush, i would wait one bit for the 660/670 series. The 680 is premium, and the price sort of reflects it.


As for motherboard, I'm leaning towards ASUS but that's just because I've used their stuff a lot in the past. Gigabyte is also looking decent and being recommended. Which motherboard would you recommend?
I have used mostly Asus and gigabyte myself just as well. The last PC we bought at the office has a AsRock MB, which i was really impressed with in terms of built quality.
Anyhow, i would go for Asus, mainly because of their BIOS and OC capability (although GB and Asrock come really close to that just as well).

[JdB]

There should be no noticeable difference between CL8 and CL9 memory. If i were you, i would get the more memory CL9.
regarding 12 or 8 gig of ram, most of todays MBs are dual or quad channel. That means you should either get 8 gig or 16 gig. (i suppose the 12 gb of ram is 3 sticks of 4gb, and unless you got a 1366 MB/proc planned - which you shouldn't anymore, you got LGA2011 replacing those these days) grab 4 sticks of 4 gig @<hidden> Shouldn't be over expensive.

If i were you, i would wait a few for the 660 or 670 series. See if you have the option to RMA to a newest version via EVGA upgrade program (need to read up on their clauses and check if you are eligible before you go for a purchase).

I would wait had it not been for my PC being virtually destroyed four days ago. I've found out the only thing that is not damaged is the hard drive (so rather lucky I guess), everything else smells like it's already been on fire, or about to ignite ...

I was planning for some time to buy a new computer after ArmA3 comes out, but as all I've got left now is this 10 year old computer I dragged from the attic, I'm in need for a new system. I have been looking for the best price/performance parts that are not overly noisy, and came up with this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Antec P280, ATX, Black
CoolerMaster Silent Pro M2 520W
Intel Core i7-3770, 3.40GHz, 8MB, S1155
Be Quiet! Dark Rock Advanced C1
Asus P8Z77-V LE S1155 Z77 4xDDR3 ATX
Corsair Vengeance 16GB(4x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9
GeForce GTX 560 Ti, 1024MB, DirectCU
OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" SATA3
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB
Lite-On iHAS124 24xDVDRW, Black, SATA, bulk
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1234,09

That is without a soundcard, I am not sure on what to pick at all. Something in the 50-75 euro range probably, I use both surround speakers and a fairly cheap headphone, I'm not exactly an audiophile when it comes to noticing differences in sound quality ... does anyone have any suggestions? :confused:

Unfortunately I'm some way over my (self-imposed) budget of 1100 euros. I could shave off some money by getting a cheaper case, this one currently costs 129,90 ... :eek:

I'm also not sure if this PSU will be powerful enough. From the official specs it appears to be, but I never really trust those ...

[Shashman]

So I'll go for an Asus motherboard, i5 2500K (I've read that the Ivybridge CPUs overheat more than Sandybridge) as most people agree that it's the most futureproof CPU, and the 560Ti. I have to get everything in one go as I will be buying on finance, so can't wait for the new GPUs to be released

[PuFu]

I would wait had it not been for my PC being virtually destroyed four days ago. I've found out the only thing that is not damaged is the hard drive (so rather lucky I guess), everything else smells like it's already been on fire, or about to ignite ...

I was planning for some time to buy a new computer after ArmA3 comes out, but as all I've got left now is this 10 year old computer I dragged from the attic, I'm in need for a new system. I have been looking for the best price/performance parts that are not overly noisy, and came up with this:
fair enough i guess.



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Antec P280, ATX, Black
CoolerMaster Silent Pro M2 520W
Intel Core i7-3770, 3.40GHz, 8MB, S1155
Be Quiet! Dark Rock Advanced C1
Asus P8Z77-V LE S1155 Z77 4xDDR3 ATX
Corsair Vengeance 16GB(4x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9
GeForce GTX 560 Ti, 1024MB, DirectCU
OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" SATA3
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB
Lite-On iHAS124 24xDVDRW, Black, SATA, bulk
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1234,09
get the i7 3770k. It's under 20Eus more, and you have some headroom to push it further when you need to (up to 4.6-4.8 on air).
see if you can grab the 2gb version of that 560TI. It does worth having extra ram if you have a 1080p monitor. I have found places where it was 5-10 Eus more than the 1GB. Definitely worth it.
The PSU might be right on the edge. I would suggest a 600-700W, just in case.
One more thing: the cooler on that processor is pretty low-budget. It should do a decent job untill you clean it up and you need to unscrew it, 8/10 cases you will break one of it's plastic ends that fit in the MB. Might wanna consider a proper one (corsair H series, Noctua and Zalman would be my picks here, in that order).


That is without a soundcard, I am not sure on what to pick at all. Something in the 50-75 euro range probably, I use both surround speakers and a fairly cheap headphone, I'm not exactly an audiophile when it comes to noticing differences in sound quality ... does anyone have any suggestions? :confused:
You can grab an XFI card laters on. It isn't a must for most games, i haven't really noticed the difference between the on board and dedicated in games, although i surely do when i am compositing or post-pro and need to pay attention to fine audio details.


Unfortunately I'm some way over my (self-imposed) budget of 1100 euros. I could shave off some money by getting a cheaper case, this one currently costs 129,90 ... :eek:
Well, for some weird reason, cases are under-rated. I used to believe that a cardboard case would do, but the airflow, dust-proof case and silence is pretty important when it comes to todays PCs. Either way, don't buy those cheep damn cases, you might end up buying another proper one just after that.


So I'll go for an Asus motherboard, i5 2500K (I've read that the Ivybridge CPUs overheat more than Sandybridge) as most people agree that it's the most futureproof CPU, and the 560Ti. I have to get everything in one go as I will be buying on finance, so can't wait for the new GPUs to be released
Even so, you might wanna check the EVGA RMA policy, just in case you might be eligible for an upgrade in the next 6 months. Might worth trowing another 5-10 dollars/euros/pounds on an EVGA version another brand just for that very reason.

[colossus]

@<hidden>

It's probably cheaper down in Europe, but I'll give it a go with my annoying Norwegian prices. :o

Motherboard:
Gigabyte GA-Z68AP

CPU:
Intel Core i5 3570K

SSD:
Samsung SSD 830 Series 128GB

HDD:
Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB 64MB

Graphics card:
MSI Radeon HD 7850 2GB Twin Frozr III

PSU:
Corsair TX 750W V2

RAM:
Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 8 GB (2x4GB) CL9 - I guess you can go for the 4x4GB option too.

Fan:
Zalman CNPS9500A LED

DVD burner:
Sony AD-5280

Price: 7989 NOK which is about 1053 Euros
Adding another 639 NOK or 84 Euros and you'll get a nice 'Fractal Design Define R3 Black Pearl' cabinet. :)

[Shashman]

JdB, go for an ASUS Xonar DG sound card. It only costs around 15E, or just settle with the onboard sound, which nowadays is more than decent, and nearly always HD.

Ah thanks PuFu I'll have a look at the EVGA cards, as that sounds very attractive. So basically, when the new GPU comes out, I get a free upgrade? Sounds too good to be true!

That's quite a pricey build collossus :P

[Bee8190]

The Asus xonar generaly recieve good reviews and are not priced sky hi, however you can get the best sound card but without decent headphones / speakers it will still be rather waste. I have pair of Sennheiser's 555 and the sound is stunning without ever feeling the need for dedi sound card. My advice would be to get pair of sennheiser's and never look back ( you can get alreaddy decent pair for 50Eur + )

Hope this helps

[MissileMoose]

If we're onto headsets I'd recommend the Corsair gamer series. I have the HS1 but the Vengeance 1500 and 2000 have since been released.

[Shashman]

Don't forget that a dedicated sound card not only gives you better quality sound, but takes a load off your CPU too. That's a factor to take into account.

[Tonci87]

For PSUs: Cougar
Never had problems with them
http://www.cougar-world.com/

[Special_Air_Service]

er what's the different between RAM speed (example : DDR2 667 mhz and DDR2 1066 mhz ) , is it affecting on gaming so much or it will only make a little differences ?

[JdB]

get the i7 3770k. It's under 20Eus more, and you have some headroom to push it further when you need to (up to 4.6-4.8 on air).
see if you can grab the 2gb version of that 560TI. It does worth having extra ram if you have a 1080p monitor. I have found places where it was 5-10 Eus more than the 1GB. Definitely worth it.
The PSU might be right on the edge. I would suggest a 600-700W, just in case.
One more thing: the cooler on that processor is pretty low-budget. It should do a decent job untill you clean it up and you need to unscrew it, 8/10 cases you will break one of it's plastic ends that fit in the MB. Might wanna consider a proper one (corsair H series, Noctua and Zalman would be my picks here, in that order).

I'm trying to save money, not spend more! :p

I've now picked a 700W PSU. The price difference online and offline between the 3770 and 3770K is around 40 euros here in all shops, the Ti 2GB model costs 30 euros more in all shops :(
It might be when they're on sale, I've noticed tiny differences before myself, but sadly none of the parts I want are on sale right now, typical :mad:

Do you mean the standard cooler that comes with the CPU? I did list a separate cooler as I have zero faith in the standard ones, "Be Quiet! Dark Rock Advanced C1 (http://www.cdromland.nl/productinfo/153067/)". I'll take a look at the brands you suggested.


Well, for some weird reason, cases are under-rated. I used to believe that a cardboard case would do, but the airflow, dust-proof case and silence is pretty important when it comes to todays PCs. Either way, don't buy those cheep damn cases, you might end up buying another proper one just after that.

And cable-management too, all of which this case is rated to be good at in reviews. So I'll try to stick with it if possible.

One other thing, should I install the OS and ArmA3 on the SSD or just ArmA3?

[Shashman]

Go for the GTX 560Ti 448 Core Version. It's got a stupid name and should really be called "GTX 565", as it performs almost as well as the 570.

If you're looking to save money, forget the i7 and go for the IvyBridge i5 3570K.

That HSF is a top choice by the way. It's winning awards left, right and centre.

[Special_Air_Service]

what is the difference between 60 Hz and 75 Hz refresh rate on PC monitor ? I feel my eye are better and not tired so fast when using 75 hz than 60 hz, but is there any effect on the gaming itself ?

[Shashman]

The higher the better, both in terms of image fluidity and the effect on your eyes.

[Hillsbills]

If money isn't really an issue are the i7 big boys worth it solely from an ARMA3 standpoint? I don't mind dropping the cash on a new build but if the gains are small why drop the extra $700?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115079

[Special_Air_Service]

The higher the better, both in terms of image fluidity and the effect on your eyes.

my default refresh rate monitor is 60 Hz , but if I change it into 75 Hz will it damaging my monitor ? Because I had read some article told that increasing refresh rate will cause damage to your monitor , and even though you had change into 75 Hz , the actual output you have will be still 60 Hz. Is this correct ?

[CameronMcDonald]

er what's the different between RAM speed (example : DDR2 667 mhz and DDR2 1066 mhz ) , is it affecting on gaming so much or it will only make a little differences ?

RAM speed is usually not as important as the amount you have, provided you are dealing with the same DDRX number.

The best analogy I've heard of is road transport. If you have say, 4GB of DDR2-667, consider it a van. However, if you have 2GB of DDR2-1066, consider it a Lamborghini.

Although the Lambo will get there (read: transfer data) much quicker, the van can deliver much more with each trip. The amount you can deliver far outweighs the speed you deliver it with in most cases, so it's better to have more RAM, rather than faster RAM of the same capacity. Of course, it's best to get more, faster RAM if you have the mulah. :D

[Special_Air_Service]

RAM speed is usually not as important as the amount you have, provided you are dealing with the same DDRX number.

The best analogy I've heard of is road transport. If you have say, 4GB of DDR2-667, consider it a van. However, if you have 2GB of DDR2-1066, consider it a Lamborghini.

Although the Lambo will get there (read: transfer data) much quicker, the van can deliver much more with each trip. The amount you can deliver far outweighs the speed you deliver it with in most cases, so it's better to have more RAM, rather than faster RAM of the same capacity. Of course, it's best to get more, faster RAM if you have the mulah. :D

Detailed information, thank you very much :) , eh much quicker transfer data affecting FPS on gaming or make loading faster ? or maybe not at all both ? :confused:

[Tonci87]

@<hidden> always go for a seperate cooler, the little things that are issued with the CPU are fine for office work but if you are into gaming simply pick the most efficient cooler you can get. Especially if you consider to overclock one day.

[PuFu]

my default refresh rate monitor is 60 Hz , but if I change it into 75 Hz will it damaging my monitor ? Because I had read some article told that increasing refresh rate will cause damage to your monitor , and even though you had change into 75 Hz , the actual output you have will be still 60 Hz. Is this correct ?
It isn't. What articles?
If your monitor supports 75Hz, good, you'll be able to select it from the list of screen resolutions available, and it will run @<hidden> BUT If it doesn't, even if you force it to show unsupported resolution and frequencies, selecting one of those will show a blank black screen, and will auto-revert to previous resolution in 15s.
You cannot damage a monitor this way, i'm sure of it.


RAM speed is usually not as important as the amount you have, provided you are dealing with the same DDRX number.

The best analogy I've heard of is road transport. If you have say, 4GB of DDR2-667, consider it a van. However, if you have 2GB of DDR2-1066, consider it a Lamborghini.
In this case the comparision in terms of speed would be between a VW Van (transporter), and a VW Golf. The difference between 667 and 1066 and neglijable in most applications. If we would be talking about DDR2 vs DDR3, things might be different though, and you comparison would be a bit more exact.


much quicker transfer data affecting FPS on gaming or make loading faster ? or maybe not at all both ? :confused:
The size and speed of the ram usually affects loading times, not average FPS. It does affect average FPS when the application is trying to load more into the ram than available ram. That said, more ram than it is needed doesn't make thing run better, nor worse.
For gaming purposes, even on 64-bit OS (taking into account that there is no native 64-bit binary file for 99.9% of the games out there), 6gig is more than enough.

For instance, my 24GB rig is normally using around 2-5 gig in OS or when gaming. There is a completely different thing when it comes down to multiple 64-bit applications running and performing various tasks simultaneously, that require a lot of data to be streamed via ram.

[Special_Air_Service]

Thank for you all that had answered my question :)
Actually I have Gigabyte EP45-UD3R which LGA 775 and compatible to Core2Extreme at max , I planning to buy Geforce GTX 460 or GTX 560 Ti but Iam afraid that even though my motherboard are fully compatible with those 2 VGA , my Processor will be heavily bottleneck by the new VGA. My current Processor is E7200 Core2Duo @<hidden> Ghz.

Since the most powerful processor that compatible with my old motherboard is Core2Quad class (not mention core2Extreme because I think there isn't anymore Computer Store in my town that still have new stock of it) which in my opinion Core2Quad Q9650 is the best among it's class, will it make my new VGA bottleneck ?

Since I am reading that newer models of VGA such as GTX 460 or 560 a perfect match for Intel Core I5 or I7 class :(

Iam considering purchasing Geforce GTX 460 if GTX 560 Ti will be bottleneck with my Processor, even though maybe GTX 460 maybe similar bottleneck as well :( , but I have no choice (lower than GTX 460 are GTS 450 which Iam not too confident in handling future game)

Thank you for the help :)

[SWAT_BigBear]

A lil OT....but here is a screenshot after a recent backup, lol@<hidden> the W-7 Fail.

http://swat-clan.net/When..JPG

[kmossco]

The only thing I would change is the PSU. For a Corsair TX-650, OCZ or Antec. All around the 500-650W.

[king_code]

So I have Arma2 OA on disc (bought it at walmart) and Arma2 off of steam is there a way I can combine Ama2 OA to steam? (I really want to play Dayz but dont want to rebuy OA) please say no if not possible or if it is please tell me how. Thanks :yay::yay::yay::yay:

[Placebo]

I'm looking to upgrade my motherboard seeing as I just bought a Sata3 SSD and my current mobo is only Sata2 (as well as having some other flaws such as onboard network adaptor and 1 usb no longer working, gfx card blocking the only other PCI slot etc), so looking for recommendations of a new mobo, must have the following:

Sata 3
AM3 compatible (CPU is AMD Phenom II X4 945 3ghz)
4 DIMM slots (I have 2x2gb and 2x1gb ram)
PCIE
At least 2 PCI slots (not blocked by gfx card)

Ideally no more than £100, not too bothered about brand but I am ware Gigabyte (my current board) have some big issues with AHCI performance so wouldn't mind avoiding that brand.

[colossus]

I'm not very familiar with the AMD chipsets, but this one seemed to meet your requirements. Bare in mind there are other versions of this card as well, but this is the one I was able to find in a swedish store - unless of course you want it from somewhere else.

Asus M4A87TD/USB3 - Specifications (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A87TDUSB3/)
Asus M4A87TD/USB3 - CDON.se (799 SEK / ~£76) (http://cdon.se/hemelektronik/asus_m4a77td%252fusb-12821933?utm_source=pricerunner&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pricerunner_se)

PS: You didn't specify what RAM chips you have. This motherboard supports DDR3 1600/1333/1066

[Placebo]

A Swedish store is what I'm eventually looking for so I can deduct the tax next year ;) Just figured it was easier to say "£100" and go from there to get it locally once I choose the model ;)

That one does look quite decent on a quick glance, will go check out some reviews thanks :)

[Bee8190]

The Asus board would be more suitable for high overclocking (4Gz+) so in order from most recommended -

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131757

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157281

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-157-262&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Keywords=%28keywords%29#scrollFullInfo

Related - http://www.komplett.se/k/kl.aspx?bn=10119&mfr=&filter=A03202.K325733.


I'd propably ditch the RAM setup and keep the 2*2Gb only especially if those sticks arent exactly identical, including LAT. Can you please post what sticks they are and what voltage?

[Placebo]

I'm toying with the idea of replacing the 2x1gb sticks with 2x2gb sticks identical to the two I already have (Kingston PC2 5300 DDR2 667), although as they're at least 3 years old I might of course be better off getting some newer ram, haven't really looked how much speed has increased in terms of ram of late. Thanks for the mobo suggestions, am looking into those as well :)

Edit: Just looked and I see I can get 8gb kits of 1866 DDR3 for around £50, I'll definitely get some of that then when I get the new motherboard :)

[Bee8190]

I am affraid the ram will need to go altogether as DDR3 boards are not backwards compatible with DDR2. RAM memory is however at rock bottom prices and RAM such as hyperX or corsair 1600Mhz DDR3, LAT 9 can be had for around 35Eur for 4Gb, which is in most gaming case scenarios completely sufficient.

The speed (benchmark wise) will be propably quite considerable as DDR3 are much faster and might cause a visible difference in framerates, compared to the current DDR2 667 sticks.

Glad to be of help

[Placebo]

Yeah I really hadn't realised how much ram had moved on since I got these last ones, with my new SSD and adding DDR3 ram in it will be flying :) Thanks again :)

[PuFu]

I wanna grab myself a SSD for my gaming rig at home (the i7 2600k in the spoiler), especially for A3. I am looking for something around 180gb sata3, with a price range of no more than 250EUs (could push some more if it does worth it).

Now, I got contradictory opinion from the web, regarding what would be the best SSD for the money, as well as why the fuck are so many types of SSDs available. Obviously, i would like to get the best out there in terms of read/write speeds, that is using the latest tech (what that is i really don't know anymore, at the office i have some intel SSDs in raid, but those are first or second generation. things seemed to have moved along quite a bit.). Some information would be appreciated:

This is what i got on the list so far:
200EUs - Corsair Force Series 180GB
230EUs - Corsair Force Series GT 180GB (does the 30RUs difference really make any difference?)
240EUs - OCZ Agility 3 180GB
250EUs - Kingston SSDNow V+200 240GB
280EUs - OCZ Agility 3 240GB

For now, i only want one SSD, will most likely push another next month just as well for the other rig i have.

I am obviously open to suggestions. Would prefer first hand experience with the drivers vs off the web commentaries.

[batto]

Just FYI if you didn't know: Those 500MB/s write speeds in OCZ SSDs are measured on text files. It has some controller that (de)compress on-the-fly. I guess it's same with any SSD that advertises +- 500MB/s write speed.

[Placebo]

The Asus board would be more suitable for high overclocking (4Gz+) so in order from most recommended -

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131757




Thanks again for your suggestions, I just ordered the Asus M5A97 (went with the standard one as the extras for the pro/evo weren't necessary for me) and also ordered G.Skill 8GB DDR3 1866MHz (2x4) looking forward to the hopeful improvements :)

[Bee8190]

I wanna grab myself a SSD for my gaming rig at home (the i7 2600k in the spoiler), especially for A3. I am looking for something around 180gb sata3, with a price range of no more than 250EUs (could push some more if it does worth it).

Now, I got contradictory opinion from the web, regarding what would be the best SSD for the money, as well as why the fuck are so many types of SSDs available. Obviously, i would like to get the best out there in terms of read/write speeds, that is using the latest tech (what that is i really don't know anymore, at the office i have some intel SSDs in raid, but those are first or second generation. things seemed to have moved along quite a bit.). Some information would be appreciated:

This is what i got on the list so far:
200EUs - Corsair Force Series 180GB
230EUs - Corsair Force Series GT 180GB (does the 30RUs difference really make any difference?)
240EUs - OCZ Agility 3 180GB
250EUs - Kingston SSDNow V+200 240GB
280EUs - OCZ Agility 3 240GB

For now, i only want one SSD, will most likely push another next month just as well for the other rig i have.

I am obviously open to suggestions. Would prefer first hand experience with the drivers vs off the web commentaries.


I am about to get my first SSD sometimes next month too, although I'll be looking for 128Gb, plenty for my own needs. Now, AFAIK, the NAND cells are pretty much same in all of the SSD's (TCMS supply for everyone, the 28nano*m) and the only real difference is the controller. The fastest is sand force and have been since Vertex 2 SSD drives, in both random writes and reads. However, sandforce seems to be slightly less reliable too, according to ''history''. Intel and even more so OCZ had quite alarming amount of failed drives within few weeks or even right out of the box. Nontheless, seems like they (OCZ especially) got their firmware sorted and I no longer see forums full of complaints.

The most reliable manufacturers still are (apologies as I no longer can find the SSD failure chart) - Intel, Crucial, Corsair, Samsung,and Kingstone. I no longer kept an eye on OCZ drives (like the new Vertex 4 series) as my trust to them was shaken.
(by the way newegg has more than plenty evidence from customer reviews on OCZ Vertex 2 / 3 drives)


For those reasons and plenty of positive reviews I'd recommend either of these -

Samsung 830 256Gb - 240Eur http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-256GB-6GBPS-Desktop-Basic/dp/B007BBQQ04/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1339369521&sr=8-2

Crucial M4 256Gb - 203Eur http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT256M4SSD2-256GB-M4-SSD/dp/B004W2JL2A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339369449&sr=8-1

Corsair force 256Gb - 215Eur http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CSSD-F240GB3-BK-Force-Series-240GB/dp/B0051A8TG6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339369581&sr=8-1

Many items on amazon are eligible for free delivery across EU and is as reliable and fast as any paid delivery FTW :)




Just FYI if you didn't know: Those 500MB/s write speeds in OCZ SSDs are measured on text files. It has some controller that (de)compress on-the-fly. I guess it's same with any SSD that advertises +- 500MB/s write speed.
Yes, the controller compress the files before it stores them on to the nand cells.It is my understanding that this is happening to allow even wear of every cell in SSD, so that some cells doesnt get overwritten 2000 times while others 20 times.



Thanks again for your suggestions, I just ordered the Asus M5A97 (went with the standard one as the extras for the pro/evo weren't necessary for me) and also ordered G.Skill 8GB DDR3 1866MHz (2x4) looking forward to the hopeful

My pleasure man!

Fine print - I hope everything will go well as I'm not looking forward to being banned hahah :)

[BangTail]

I wanna grab myself a SSD for my gaming rig at home (the i7 2600k in the spoiler), especially for A3. I am looking for something around 180gb sata3, with a price range of no more than 250EUs (could push some more if it does worth it).

Now, I got contradictory opinion from the web, regarding what would be the best SSD for the money, as well as why the fuck are so many types of SSDs available. Obviously, i would like to get the best out there in terms of read/write speeds, that is using the latest tech (what that is i really don't know anymore, at the office i have some intel SSDs in raid, but those are first or second generation. things seemed to have moved along quite a bit.). Some information would be appreciated:

This is what i got on the list so far:
200EUs - Corsair Force Series 180GB
230EUs - Corsair Force Series GT 180GB (does the 30RUs difference really make any difference?)
240EUs - OCZ Agility 3 180GB
250EUs - Kingston SSDNow V+200 240GB
280EUs - OCZ Agility 3 240GB

For now, i only want one SSD, will most likely push another next month just as well for the other rig i have.

I am obviously open to suggestions. Would prefer first hand experience with the drivers vs off the web commentaries.

Crucial all the way tbh.

OCZ flashing procedures for RAID arrays leave alot to be desired and the Agility 3 series are asynchronous NAND which is significantly slower than synchronous.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/08/07/nand_flash_faces_off_synchronous_vs_asynchronous/

The SF2281 controller has been an unmitigated disaster for OCZ.

At this point I've tried most brands and generations and the Crucial M4 drives are fast, solid, reliable and reasonably priced.

I've seen the 256GB as low as $214.00 and the 512 as low as $409.00 (Crucial is rumoured to be trying to start a price war which is good for us :D )

'AS SSD' is a more reliable measure of speed as it uses uncompressed data, as such you get much more reliable results.

Programs like ATTO use compressed data which make certain drives appear much faster than they actually are.

More here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/754763/as-ssd-benchmark-thread

Nothing wrong with Corsair or Kingston btw - both quality components.

[PuFu]

cheers for the tips lads.
Unfortunately, crucial is not really a brand i can find at my trusted retailed (don't ask, things with hardware is a bit different in terms of brands available here than in UK US DE etc, mainly because there are just a couple of national wide hardware importers that provide all the stock for the hundreds of retail stores. monopol ftw.

Indeed, i was able to find them at a local provider, just that i have no experience with them whatsoever, for around 220EUs (256GB, which should fit my OS an A2 needs perfectly).
I'll see if i can get myself one 256gb M4, if not, i guess Corsair Force GT should do the trick.

bangtail, sorry, send that PM again please, seems i had my inbox full without any notification on the forums whatsoever. I cleaned all the hate-mail i received recently :)

[Kernriver]

Guys, does OS have to be installed on SSD, or just Arma? What are the benefits of having both installed on SSD?

I'm asking this because those SSDs are pricey, so I want to get one as cheap as possible.

For example 128GB vs 64GB...is the latter enough for Arma2/3?

[Tonci87]

OS on SSD= Much faster PC in tems of startup and other things. 128 GB is the way to go, that way you can put some island addons on it as well^^

[Kernriver]

Thanks for the info mate.

My wallet is already crying.

[PRE]

Working on my PC build for Arma 3.... on the topic of SSD's

Crucial M4 64gb 75.00$
128gb 125.00$
256gb 215.00$

Would you purchase 1 256gb SSD and put the OS and arma on that drive? Or should I get a combination of 2 SSD's, one being the 64gb drive for Arma, and another drive for the OS and other programs? Is there a benifit in having an independent drive for arma?, and is it practical to set up 2 drives in this manner, in other words how difficult is it to make this configuration- I've never had 2 HD drives.

Thanks

[spartan00551]

hey guys am new to this forums or game and i just found out for arma 2: free and i say lets give it a try.
When i start the setup it directs me to a website where i can get my cd key but when i click one of the links to sign in and get the key it goes back and it says registration failed and it stays there i cant do anything else to play the game any ideas?

[[FRL]Myke]

@<hidden>

you might want to re-read the Forum rules (http://forums.bistudio.com/misc.php?do=vsarules) you've just accepted today upon registering to the Forums:



§7) Search before posting

If you have a question, please use the forum search function before posting to make sure that it hasn't been answered before. There is a big chance it has, not only does searching help to keep the forum free of multiple threads it will also help you to get an answer much quicker.
§8) Post in the right forum

Please ensure you make new threads in the correct forum, if you're unsure of which forum to post in feel free to ask a moderator.

[Bee8190]

Alright I could use an advice from i7 2600K users. I have opportunity to swap my i5 2500K for pretty much new-ish i5 3750K or I can get the 2600K for 30 Eur more from a friend I trust. Now I went trough about dozen benchmarks and it seems 3750K and 2600K are on pair if not even, generally speaking. Now I'm familiar with the tech specs of all 3 CPU's, I just can't decide if the hyperthreading in the 2600K would benefit me in arma and possibly A3, as its pretty much the only game I (plan on anyways) play.

I'm not planing on overclocking and If I do it would be just mild OC as I always do and I don't do any video - picture editing that would really benefit me from having HT.

Input apprechiated :)

[Tonci87]

Alright I could use an advice from i7 2600K users. I have opportunity to swap my i5 2500K for pretty much new-ish i5 3750K or I can get the 2600K for 30 Eur more from a friend I trust. Now I went trough about dozen benchmarks and it seems 3750K and 2600K are on pair if not even, generally speaking. Now I'm familiar with the tech specs of all 3 CPU's, I just can't decide if the hyperthreading in the 2600K would benefit me in arma and possibly A3, as its pretty much the only game I (plan on anyways) play.

I'm not planing on overclocking and If I do it would be just mild OC as I always do and I don't do any video - picture editing that would really benefit me from having HT.

Input apprechiated :)

You won´t have benefits from HT while playing Arma, but your System will be faster, stuff like 7zip, video and picture editing will be faster too. The i7 2600k has lots of potential if you want to OC it one day.

[Bee8190]

You won´t have benefits from HT while playing Arma, but your System will be faster, stuff like 7zip, video and picture editing will be faster too. The i7 2600k has lots of potential if you want to OC it one day.

I'm almost sure that I've read somewhere on this forums that the HT can even mess up arma's FPS / peroformance, have you ever encountered any issues in arma due to HT?

Cheers mate

[Tonci87]

I'm almost sure that I've read somewhere on this forums that the HT can even mess up arma's FPS / peroformance, have you ever encountered any issues in arma due to HT?

Cheers mate

Once I tried to disable HT, arma ran like before.

[PuFu]

I'm almost sure that I've read somewhere on this forums that the HT can even mess up arma's FPS / peroformance, have you ever encountered any issues in arma due to HT?

Cheers mate
yes, before 1.59 patch. Nowadays, HT on or off doesn't matter at all in terms of performance.

[Bee8190]

Thanks for input fellas. I decided the 3750K will be good enough and when the times comes (haswell?^^) one can always upgrade here and there again :)

[ArOn_95]

I could also use some advice...
I am currently using a laptop which was not bought for gaming. i have now changed my mind and want to get into PC gaming rather than console. I used the sytemrequirementslab tosee if my laptop was good enough to handle games like arma 2, bf3 etc. Everything came back a pass other than my video card which failed.

Is there any way of upgrading this (external video card etc.)??
Here is my laptops spec:
Operating sytem: windows 7 homw premium 64-bit
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2410M CPU @<hidden> 2.30GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Display: Intel(R) HD Graphics Family


thanks
Aron

[JuggernautOfWar]

I have been getting consistent blue screens of death lately while gaming. I just ran MemTest for a few hours while I slept and discovered 380 errors in 6 passes. That would definitely point to the RAM causing the blue screens while gaming. I've taken a few pictures of the MemTest screen.

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l385/JuggernautOfWar/th_IMG_20120704_034928.jpg (http://s329.photobucket.com/albums/l385/JuggernautOfWar/?action=view&current=IMG_20120704_034928.jpg)
http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l385/JuggernautOfWar/th_IMG_20120704_035010.jpg (http://s329.photobucket.com/albums/l385/JuggernautOfWar/?action=view&current=IMG_20120704_035010.jpg)
http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l385/JuggernautOfWar/th_IMG_20120704_035328.jpg (http://s329.photobucket.com/albums/l385/JuggernautOfWar/?action=view&current=IMG_20120704_035328.jpg)

Is there any way to fix this? I can't afford new DDR3 RAM at the moment. This really needs to be resolved.

Thank you for your time.

[NeMeSiS]

I dont know if you can fix it, but if you have multiple DIMMs you can take the faulty one out and work with less RAM for a while.

[Placebo]

Shouldn't pretty much all RAM be coming with life warranties these days? If it's DDR3 it can't be that old?

[PuFu]

there is NO way to fix it, no. Faulty ram needs to be replaced.

ram nowadays have pretty much life time warranty, or so are the ones i got (just checked, around 99 months :) )
check your warranty, might be in a bit of a luck.

[Matthewkunx]

Hey guys, just wanna see what you think about the build I am currently working on for fixing up my old PC as well as a new PC that I am building for general gaming since I am not always looking to set everything on ultra.

Here are the specs for both PC's;

My old/build-from-scrap Gaming computer (Or as I would call, my "Minmatar Computer" If you get the reference) :p

Asus A8N SLI Deluxe NVIDIA Socket 939 Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core 4400+ @<hidden> 2.21GHz (without overclocking)
4x PNY 512MB PC3200 = 2GB RAM
2x WD5000AADS 500GB HDD (Had some laying around)
DVD RW
Swapping out my old Radeon 256MB card with a Sapphire 100322L Radeon HD 6450 Video Card - 1GB, GDDR3, PCI-Express 2.0
Running Win 7 Ultimate

This is my general gaming rig;
(Including prices of each part)
GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-S2P AMD 760 Motherboard (54.99)
AMD HDT45TWFGRBOX Phenom II X6 1045T Processor (139.99)
Crucial BLS2G3D1609DS1S00 Ballistix 2GB DDR3 (probably would get a second one and at 18 bucks its nice)
Seagate ST1000DM003 Barracuda 1TB HDD (90.00)
DVD RW (another thing I got sitting around
XFX HD-667X-ZHF3 Radeon HD 6670 1GB (65.00)
Got an ATX tower sitting around and a Diablotek PSDA600 DA Series 600W ATX (Got this PSU for 34.99)

So I am looking at eh...around $421+ for this build plus 30 bucks for the graphics card for my old PC. So, thoughts?

---------- Post added at 04:30 ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 ----------


I could also use some advice...
I am currently using a laptop which was not bought for gaming. i have now changed my mind and want to get into PC gaming rather than console. I used the sytemrequirementslab tosee if my laptop was good enough to handle games like arma 2, bf3 etc. Everything came back a pass other than my video card which failed.

Is there any way of upgrading this (external video card etc.)??
Here is my laptops spec:
Operating sytem: windows 7 homw premium 64-bit
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2410M CPU @<hidden> 2.30GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Display: Intel(R) HD Graphics Family


thanks
Aron

Some new high performance laptop and portable computer manufacturers are coming out with models that enable users to upgrade the video card or video accelerator it came shipped with. Unless your one of the lucky few who have one of these laptops or portable computer you will not be able to upgrade your video card. Try contacting your manufacture or google it bro.

[Epillus]

hello everyone, this is my first time posting in this community and hopefully it's in the right place :P. I have a couple of links to some builds I've been working on.. I'm going to be building some very lightweight gaming rigs, and would like some advice. Some games I plan on downloading/playing are ARMA II, and Minecraft(not worried about) and prohbaly some lightweight games because I do play alot of games on xbox like BF3 and saints row. As of right now i'm looking at a budget of $600, I don't need a monitor and most likely not a mouse or a keyboard because i have some. Also it does not have to be windows, I am fairly comfortable using a linux distro.

BUILD 1 (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/a2Xs)
BUILD 2 (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/a9jv)
BUILD 3 (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/awTt)

[Bee8190]

[/COLOR]Unfortunately none of those builds meets the minimum requirements. I would recommend at least one of those high clocked i3 or obviously better yet i5.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119512-Arma-3-Confirmed-features-info-amp-discussion&highlight=arma+minimum

[-Coulum-]

Okay total computer noob here. Starting to narrow down parts I want for a new computer and one I am having trouble with is the mother board. How important is this to gaming (arma in particular)?. Should I be looking to get a really good one, or should I simply be looking to get something that "gets the job done"? Thanks in advance for any help.

[irishrocky]

hey folks, i need a new pc as i've donated alot of parts to friends and family in need so what would people reccomend ??

ive no bias between brands but would ideally play Arma II & such at 40 fps on good settings & A3 on reasonable, im not fussy about running max AA and the likes just stable decent fps/view distance etc makes me happy as larry....

pc would be running SSD only and preferably the gpu would be a single unit ( i.e 2gb 78xx+ or nividia equiv... )

would it be doable for say, sub 600 euro with a case already + mouse keyboard & monitor ?

[Placebo]

Everyone gets to ask one dumb question a day right? Here's mine! ;)

So I buy a new SSD http://www.kingston.com/us/ssd/vplus/#svp200s3 it says it has the following specs:

Sequential reads: SATA Rev. 3.0 - 535MB/s
Sequential writes2:SATA Rev. 3.0 -120GB – 480MB/s
Sustained Random 4k Read/Write2: 120GB – 20,000/44,000 IOPS
Max Random 4k Read/Write2: 120GB – 85,000/55,000 IOPS

I run AS SSD Benchmark and get this:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5546/ssdtestamdsatadriver.png

My motherboard is an ASUS M5A97 motherboard which is Sata3 and I'm using Sata3 rated Sata cables to connect it to the motherboard


I think this was the result from when I was using the generic MS Sata driver on my old Sata2 motherboard:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/926/ssdtestsata2mobomsdrive.png

So despite upgrading to a newer supposedly much faster motherboard the SSD speeds have actually pretty much gone down, and either way the speeds I'm getting are nothing like the supposed 535MB/s reads and 480MB/s writes advertised? Am I missing something obvious here and/or being dumb or is something not configured/working right in my system?

[TonyGrunt]

Do a bench with Atto or HDtune then you should see the advertised speeds.
And I believe AMD sata controllers are slower than the Intel ones, so expect to lose a bit from that.

[Placebo]

Do a bench with Atto or HDtune then you should see the advertised speeds.
And I believe AMD sata controllers are slower than the Intel ones, so expect to lose a bit from that.

Thanks I tried both of those:

(Pics spoilered so they don't kill the thread)
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9858/attossdtest.png

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5276/hdtuneread.pnghttp://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7275/hdtunefilebenchmark.png
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/7672/hdtuneextratests.pnghttp://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2686/hdtunerandomaccess.png



Not sure I really understand what either of those mean but some of the bars go higher toward 500mb/s so I'm guessing that's a good thing? ;)

[Bee8190]

Okay total computer noob here. Starting to narrow down parts I want for a new computer and one I am having trouble with is the mother board. How important is this to gaming (arma in particular)?. Should I be looking to get a really good one, or should I simply be looking to get something that "gets the job done"? Thanks in advance for any help.


Well I could never justify spending (too) much on the motherboard as I'd say you can't really go wrong with any MB of today's lineup, from any well known manufacturers. (gigabyte, asus, ASrock, MSI, Intel...)

It's usually down to what features you require, like CPU power phase to madly OC your CPU , ( 2 or 4 way GFX setup ) or how many USb 2.0 - 3.0 you will need, reset CMOS and power on\off button on MB, how many SATA 6 and SATA 3, e-SATA, firewire, thunderbolt or even integrated Wi-Fi etc etc..

It goes even bit beyond all this but it difference may come down to what audio codecs are implemented, what ethernet driver it uses etc etc...too many factors I can cover here :) BUT once you understand the basics and what to look for its way easier to comprehend it all.

Now you might find a MB that has all this features on it and will cost you 300$ up, or you can find one that has only Crossfire or\and SLI slots, some USB 2 and 3 ports but deosnt have integrated wi-fi, has weaker CPU power phase, cheaper codecs and fewer **insert feature here** ports, driving the price of used components and \or licenses down.

There's just too much to cover but if you have any or more specific questions I'll (try to :) ) and gladly answer them here



@<hidden>, the atto benchmarks look alright to me....( is the SSD on AHCI by the way as its recommended?)

[Placebo]

@<hidden>, the atto benchmarks look alright to me....( is the SSD on AHCI by the way as its recommended?)

Yes it is.

[BasileyOne]

flash-based SDD's tend to [start]degrade after 1.5-2 months of usage in speed/size/reliability.
best-rated controller for SSD's is LAMD, presently acquired by SK Hynx with developer/designer.
and indilux/Marvel v4 - second in charts.

about "iNtel vs AMD storage controllers" topic. they comparable, AMD even better[but Nvidia even better than AMD], a bit, but drivers... quite opposite.
basically you don't need driver for both during usage in modern operating systems and motherboard, both because AHCI support[de-facto standard of storage interface/driver] and legacy/IDE [optional]HDD/SSD emulation by motherboard firmware.
generally AHCI also provide less CPU overhead.

[Dallas]

[edit]misposted sorry

[Placebo]

[edit]misposted sorry

In answer to your original question, you could post here: Congratulations Bohemia Interactive (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?134314-Congratulations-Bohemia-Interactive)

[sesdelta38]

It's been quite a long time since I last posted in these forums. I remember posting in this thread to get help on building a gaming computer. I need help with that again.

However, I'm looking for help on building one from scratch(my friends are helping with that). I want to know if their is any way to turn my Dell desktop into a low-end gaming computer.

If anyone can help, I will appreciate it greatly.

EDIT: Is there at least some possibility of putting in a new processor?

[Meyer_USA]

So I've been looking around and am planning to buy my first computer dedicated to gaming. (ARMA lol) It would be a first for me in general as I never really had a decent computer.

Anyways I'm looking for input on what anybody thinks of this setup. Think it would be able to run ARMA 2 and possibly 3 in the future on high settings with a decent FPS?

I plan on buying this from CyberPowerPC

Case: * Azza Genesis 9000 Full Tower Gaming Case w/ 2 x 230mm fans, 4x Easy Swap HDD, Dual Power
Supply Support, & front USB 3.0 Port (Black Color)

Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Maximum 120MM Case Cooling Fans for your selected case

CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 (All Venom OC Certified)

Performance Tuning Protection Plan by Intel: Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Performance Tuning Protection Plan by Intel

Venom Boost Fast And Efficient Factory Overclocking: Extreme OC (Extreme Overclock 20% or more)

Cooling Fan: Asetek 510LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan (Enhanced Cooling Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA) (Single Standard 120MM Fan)

Coolant for Cyberpower Xtreme Hydro Water Cooling Kits: Standard Coolant

Motherboard: (4-Way SLI Support) GIGABYTE X79-UP4 Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ 3D UEFI Bios, Ultra Durable 5, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, USB3.0, SATA-III RAID, 4 Gen3 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1 & 1 PCI

Memory: 16GB (4GBx4) DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)

Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)

Power Supply Upgrade: 1,000 Watts - Standard Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready

Hard Drive: 2TB (2TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)

Optical Drive: LG 12X Internal Blu-ray Drive & DVDRW, 3D Playback Combo Drive (BLACK COLOR)

Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

What do you guys think of this rig? Should I change anything, or should I go with an alternative option?

[batto]

@<hidden>: looks great

[Tonci87]

Guys I need a new gaming mouse.
Suggestions?
Currently I´m looking at
http://www.amazon.de/Logitech-G500-Gaming-Maus-schnurgebunden/dp/B002LVTP6Q/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1345575391&sr=8-4

It should have enough extra buttons and should be of high quality.
Any suggestions?

[PuFu]

steel series > razer > roccat > logitech. (my 2 cents anyways).

If you can find a razer deathadder at a decent price don't wait on it. Great mouse that is.

btw, currently running a steel XAI laser mouse (Highly recommended, but more pricey than what you got there). Had a deathadder before that.

[batto]

SteelSeries Xai here too. Good mouse but backlight on bottom LCD stopped working. Logitech MX518 is also good and cheaper. I had MX510 which is like MX518 (except max DPI) but there are no drivers for Win > WinXP (needed to switch to 800 DPI from 400 default). Before I got Xai I considered Logitech G9. It has replacable "weight modules" (so you can tune weight of the mouse) and the mousewheel can be pushed to right and left which could be good for leaning in ArmA.

[froggyluv]

+1 Deathadder -serves me well and works ace for Warband dueling which is mousewear in the extreme!

@<hidden>: Good build but are you paying for them to OC your chip when they're installing a water based cooling system? Its not that hard or much of a gamble when cpu has little risk of heating up. Also, what is your monitor and resolution expectancy?

[Tonci87]

What do you guys think of this one?

http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Mice/ROCCAT-Kone-/

Does someone have experience with it?

I´ll check your suggestions when I get home from work.

[jagheterjan]

Yes, I owned three of them. All of them broke after about six months. In all cases it was the supporting structure that held the mouse wheel in position - it broke away from the main body, causing the mouse wheel and associated buttons to go inop and sending shards of plastic into the mouse, causing all sorts of annoyances. I used the mouse mainly for work in 3ds max and Mudbox which tend to put quite some strain on the middle mouse button and wheel. Third time it happened, I went for a Logitech G500. Never looked back once.

[neimad1]

I'm using a Razer Abyssus for almost 2 years now, and it's still work perfectly. Fits your hand so you can headshot any threat in Arma !

[Tonci87]

Damn I just saw that Roccat will release new Kone Versions in a month or two (Kone Pure; Kone XTD) The Pure series looks interesting and durability seems to be an important selling point (yeah they know that they f*** up with the older Kones) so I guess I will wait a little longer.

[Meyer_USA]

So I'm thinking about buying a custom gaming pc from cyberpowerpc.com

What do you guys think of this website?

I don't really want to build it myself though but I can't decide what website I should buy it from.

What do you guys think? Is that a good website or is there a better one out there?

Thanks.

[4 IN 1]

Recently I find that my harddrive almost ran out of space, so I went out to brought a new WD 1TB hard drive and through about doing some re partitioning on all my other older drivrs, here comes the problem: I own an Cosair force 3 120GB SSD that I used as main system drive, and I divided it into 2 partition, one for system and one for software and gaming purpose. now that I wanted to resize the partition, is there anyway to do that without having to reinstalling windows 7 again ?

[TonyGrunt]

Recently I find that my harddrive almost ran out of space, so I went out to brought a new WD 1TB hard drive and through about doing some re partitioning on all my other older drivrs, here comes the problem: I own an Cosair force 3 120GB SSD that I used as main system drive, and I divided it into 2 partition, one for system and one for software and gaming purpose. now that I wanted to resize the partition, is there anyway to do that without having to reinstalling windows 7 again ?
You can use shrink/extend volume from inside Disk Management.
Example if you have 2 60GB partitions, W7 on 1 and Apps on 2, and you want to expand the W7, you would backup the Apps partition and delete it.
Then you could expand the W7 one to the full drive or leave some space and create a 2nd smaller partition.
If I remember correct you can only shrink/extend to the end of the drive (right side).
Shrinking a partition is a bit trickier cause you would want the end of the partition to be empty, so you usually run a defrag to move the data to the start of the partition.
That's ok for a HDD but on a SSD, defrag should be avoided and I think SSDs would show as fragmented and limit how much you could shrink.

[SnR]

[Help] I just picked up a GB M8000x mouse, it wont scroll ? up is jumpy and there is no down for web or game. Drivers, setup all have been checked.

[PuFu]

take it back *^

[Haystack15]

Has body seen this? Next-generation heatsink has no fan at all? (http://www.neowin.net/news/next-generation-heatsink-has-no-fan-at-all?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JWQZNXEKkaU


I think I've just found a whole new way to slice off my finger when I go sticking my hand in my machine while its on!

The only funny thing I see with this cooler is everything else in your machine is going to be all dusty and you CPU heatsink will be nice and shiny.

[Tonci87]

HmmI don´t think that this will be better than a big cooler. Reasons= Bad Airflow

[Nicholas]

I hope this is the right place....

I currently have my AMD Phenom II X6 1100T overclocked to 3.7Ghz. I've had it this way for about a week now and she runs stable. The maximum temperature I have seen while playing ArmA for about 3 hours was 31ºC with ambient temperature of 20ºC. I'm thinking I want to try to get her up to 4.0Ghz, but I'll have to do more tinkering.

I also have an AMD 6950 with the BIOS flashed to that of an AMD 6970.

Anyone else here overclock their CPU or GPU?

[Bee8190]

@<hidden>: I usually don't overclock and\or do just mild overclock so I can't share much knowledge on this but what are you using to measure the CPU temps? Seems to me that at 3.7Ghz with around 30ºC is rather underestimated?

Also according to other users the MAD chip might become unstable running at 4Ghz but cooling and high frequency RAM can make quite bit of difference. Was your attempt, if done already successful?

[vilas]

a few PC related question (in regard of Arma 2/3 too):
1 ) which VGA manufacturer make most reliable cards ? or there is no rule ? some people say that we should not touch Palit, others say that Gainward is good, next people say that Gainward is the same as Palit but under different name , so which would be most reliable ? Gygabyte, MSI ? EVGA ?
2 ) Arma2, Arma3 performance, i remember old topics and opinions of people which say that it is not matter how many cores has CPU, but speed of CPU core, so what would be better ? 4 core "faster" GHz or 6 core "slower" GHz ?

1 AMD X4 FX-4100 ( 3600 Mhz/3800 Mhz TURBO, 12MB cache, 95W ) BOX 350.00 430.00
2 AMD X6 FX-6100 ( 3300 Mhz/3900 Mhz TURBO, 12MB cache, 95W ) BOX 382.00 470.00
3 AMD X4 FX-4170 ( 4200 Mhz, 12MB cache, 125W ) BOX 415.00 510.00
4 AMD X6 FX-6200 ( 3800 Mhz, 12MB cache, 125W ) BOX 447.00 550.00

3) power consumption, 95W is "EE" , 125W is 25% more, but question is :
- whether cooling (Noctua : https://www.cooling.pl/arctic-cooling-freezer-13-pro,produkt,553063.html?from_category=103_78_154 similar to this one ) see problem in those 30W more or for such cooler it is not a problem (i mean loudness, power consumption for power unit, temperature performance)

4) is Nvidia GT650 2GB is good value for money idea ? (on this level of money, don't say about uber-hiper cards)

5) power consumption of PC with GT 650, AMD cpu shown above, 4 GB DDR, 1 DVDR, 1 hard disc , 550W is enough ?

6) can you buy in your country Windows OEM along with mouse, DDR etc ? or just whole new PC with company-stickers ?

7) Windows 7 Home vs. PRO when it comes to gaming, graphics ? if you earn money on PC , can you use Home or it must be Pro ?

8) can old graphic soft (for example ooold OEMs bought along with printer, scaner) from XP era or 98 era, can work on 7?

9) what is better for gaming and graphics ? ISP or PVA ? or no matter cause both are good ?

10) can i have on one HDD 2 partitions with 2 systems (XP, 7 ) or if something is saved in 7, than catalog cannot be read by XP and viceversa (permissions for catalogs, folders)

11) i observed that some mouses "loose" wheel function , is it connected with hardware or software ? or hard to tell, also i observed that some mouses "dance themselves" when put on desk of table , some not, Logitech cheap mouse behaves good on my table , but Modecom mouse "moves without touch" from time to time , is it a fact that only Logitech is reliable ? i don't use any pads, i have simply desk table on which i use it,

thanx in advance

[Nicholas]

@<hidden>: I usually don't overclock and\or do just mild overclock so I can't share much knowledge on this but what are you using to measure the CPU temps? Seems to me that at 3.7Ghz with around 30ºC is rather underestimated?

Also according to other users the MAD chip might become unstable running at 4Ghz but cooling and high frequency RAM can make quite bit of difference. Was your attempt, if done already successful?

I was using Core Temp (http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/) to get the temperature information.

[Bee8190]

a few PC related question (in regard of Arma 2/3 too):
1 ) which VGA manufacturer make most reliable cards ? or there is no rule ? some people say that we should not touch Palit, others say that Gainward is good, next people say that Gainward is the same as Palit but under different name , so which would be most reliable ? Gygabyte, MSI ? EVGA ?
2 ) Arma2, Arma3 performance, i remember old topics and opinions of people which say that it is not matter how many cores has CPU, but speed of CPU core, so what would be better ? 4 core "faster" GHz or 6 core "slower" GHz ?

1 AMD X4 FX-4100 ( 3600 Mhz/3800 Mhz TURBO, 12MB cache, 95W ) BOX 350.00 430.00
2 AMD X6 FX-6100 ( 3300 Mhz/3900 Mhz TURBO, 12MB cache, 95W ) BOX 382.00 470.00
3 AMD X4 FX-4170 ( 4200 Mhz, 12MB cache, 125W ) BOX 415.00 510.00
4 AMD X6 FX-6200 ( 3800 Mhz, 12MB cache, 125W ) BOX 447.00 550.00

3) power consumption, 95W is "EE" , 125W is 25% more, but question is :
- whether cooling (Noctua : https://www.cooling.pl/arctic-cooling-freezer-13-pro,produkt,553063.html?from_category=103_78_154 similar to this one ) see problem in those 30W more or for such cooler it is not a problem (i mean loudness, power consumption for power unit, temperature performance)

4) is Nvidia GT650 2GB is good value for money idea ? (on this level of money, don't say about uber-hiper cards)

5) power consumption of PC with GT 650, AMD cpu shown above, 4 GB DDR, 1 DVDR, 1 hard disc , 550W is enough ?

6) can you buy in your country Windows OEM along with mouse, DDR etc ? or just whole new PC with company-stickers ?

7) Windows 7 Home vs. PRO when it comes to gaming, graphics ? if you earn money on PC , can you use Home or it must be Pro ?

8) can old graphic soft (for example ooold OEMs bought along with printer, scaner) from XP era or 98 era, can work on 7?

9) what is better for gaming and graphics ? ISP or PVA ? or no matter cause both are good ?

10) can i have on one HDD 2 partitions with 2 systems (XP, 7 ) or if something is saved in 7, than catalog cannot be read by XP and viceversa (permissions for catalogs, folders)

11) i observed that some mouses "loose" wheel function , is it connected with hardware or software ? or hard to tell, also i observed that some mouses "dance themselves" when put on desk of table , some not, Logitech cheap mouse behaves good on my table , but Modecom mouse "moves without touch" from time to time , is it a fact that only Logitech is reliable ? i don't use any pads, i have simply desk table on which i use it,

thanx in advance




#1 - I obviously :) haven't tried every VGA manufacturer out there but pretty reliable are considered - MSI, sapphire, asus, evga. In the end I'd advice to pick manufacturer that has service center in your home country or at least
somewhere in EU.
(I'd pick up MSI or sapphire) Most cards should last ages if GFX voltage sin't increased (too) much anyways.

#2 - In a nut shell; Faster 4 core than slower 6-8 core for gaming, Period. As Icebraker suggested I'd probably wait few more and see where donations can take you. I'd stress that intel, while pricey at times, is the preferable choice, due to low power consumptions
and pretty efficient core(s) performance. On the other hand, AMD Mboards tend to be little cheaper and AMD sockets are usually long lasting, aka don't change much, unlike in intel case. Best would be to see if (AMD) piledriver delivers and than compare.

#3 If the Noctua is going to fit your CPU socket and touch by it's dispersion surface fully (or even bit over CPU itself), the cooler should work real well because it has been designed for much higher CPU-TDP, whereas todays CPU's tend to generate
much less heat. Again, as long as the cooler fits (properly), you're set.

#4 I can't find much at all about GT650, unless it's a mobile version aka GT650M. From what I can gather though, looks like old-er 550Ti or HD7700 would perform little better. I believe the HD 7770 is available in 2Gb Vram too.



#5 Your Corsair 550W unit will be fine.

#6 OEM is for pre-build PC's only or at least I always thought so. If arma works well under windows 8, you could postpone getting OS by downloading Win 8 consumer preview. Not by much however, as it ''expires'' by January 15. 2013. Still, few good months.

#7 For gaming, ''purely'', there's little sense getting anything more than home premium x64. { for example, Win 7 ultimate allows to download and install multiple different language pack(s) and display desired language by replacing the original language }

#8 Software developed under XP should still work under Win7. I however doubt any older than XP will as well.

#9 If you're refering to display panel, there are many kinds of ISP technologies. (IPS M, IPS V and others) Some ISP are combined with other technologies, hence ISP-M for example but are used for nothing less than professional photo\video editing and
price goes according it's target base. I have a dell U2312 IPS panel which became very affordable lately and could definitely recommend. There are many more manufacturers doing IPS -IPS LED displays. In short, IPS over LCD (LCD-TN) any time.

#10 Yes, you can have dual boot HDD. Easy to manage and make partition(s) too.

#11 Personal preference but I found microsoft or some logitech can be decent mice on budget.


Welcome :)

[Rebel12340]

Was wondering if anyone had any reccommendations for an upgrade from and AMD Phenom II X4 945 processor. I was looking on NewEgg and they only have one Phenom II for sale and I wasn't sure if it was worth upgrading to that because I'd have to buy a new motherboard along with it. I mainly use my computer for Video games (obviously) and Music editing for my band (recording, mixing, and mastering songs). I was looking to get an FX series processor but I've heard they're not worth buying, so...

[vilas]

regarding point 4, i mistyped letter X, oops seems it was important letter, of course GTX 650 :

21 GeForce GTX 650 1024 MB DDR5 ( 1058/5000, 128-bit ) PALIT 374.00 460.00
22 GeForce GTX 650 1024 MB DDR5 ( 128-bit ) GIGABYTE OC 382.00 470.00
23 GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1024 MB DDR5 ( 910/4104, 192-bit ) ASUS DC 382.00 470.00
24 GeForce GTX 650 1024 MB DDR5 ( 1058/5000, 128-bit ) GAINWARD 390.00 480.00
25 GeForce GTX 650 2048 MB DDR5 ( 128-bit ) GIGABYTE OC

regarding point 3:
i have that Noctua since 5 years already thats why i was asking about AMD AM3+ chip, cause i have AM2 version of this Noctua and probably it will work for years more (or it is nonsense to keep 5 y.o. fan cooler and better buy new "the same" but new cause OR "it will break sooner or later and thinking about CPU having cooler is sensless thinking" ) ?

regarding point 7 - can i work (job, money earn) having "Home" or only "Pro" (in your country?) I am trying to compare M$ licensens in different countries too see if we are equally treated or mistreated,

regarding point 9 - i have Samsung Syncmaster 971P monitor, it is veeeeeeeeeeeeeery good quality, work etc. but ... 1280*1024 , so not enough for tools (all Oxygen BI Tools properties and work space for addons) thats why i though about new panel, with 1600*1200 pixels or something like this, so i thought PVA or IPS technology (of course not TN because i do photos : https://picasaweb.google.com/112160154631302983944 ) so i cant use TN matrix, only PVA or IPS , but which is better for gaming (faster)

[Spooky Lynx]

Small question from me - I think about changing my DDR3 RAM from 4Gb to 8 Gb. Will it give me significant performance increase in Arma2?

[vilas]

as far as i know this forum posts from past, so Arma2 engine loves: CPU power, fast HDD discs (reading all textures) , VGA and RAM is on third place, so maybe you will have increase in FPS but probably small, maybe loading maps will be faster for few percent ?
or am i wrong, probably only increace you would see would be between 1 and 2 GB, but 4 and 8 ? probably 4 GB is enough (i have 2 GB)

[Bee8190]

regarding point 4, i mistyped letter X, oops seems it was important letter, of course GTX 650 :

[QUOTE=vilas;2234101] regarding point 3:
i have that Noctua since 5 years already thats why i was asking about AMD AM3+ chip, cause i have AM2 version of this Noctua and probably it will work for years more (or it is nonsense to keep 5 y.o. fan cooler and better buy new "the same" but new cause OR "it will break sooner or later and thinking about CPU having cooler is sensless thinking" ) ?

If you're talking about the fan getting too loud or just braking down, the cooler (as many others) should be able to cool the CPU even without any fan attached whatsoever and even than you should be replace it by quieter or more efficient fun with ease. Obviously, that depend on if, or how much is the CPU OC'ed.



regarding point 7 - can i work (job, money earn) having "Home" or only "Pro" (in your country?) I am trying to compare M$ licensens in different countries too see if we are equally treated or mistreated.

I Believe this is somewhat similar to the EULA here. As long as you you paid for the license you're entitled to use it however you like, unless altering or redistributing the software - files on their own. I could be wrong though because walls of txt is boring me to death :) (licenses)



regarding point 9 - i have Samsung Syncmaster 971P monitor, it is very good quality, work etc. but ... 1280*1024 , so not enough for tools (all Oxygen BI Tools properties and work space for addons) thats why i though about new panel, with 1600*1200 pixels or something like this, so i thought PVA or IPS technology (of course not TN because i do photos : https://picasaweb.google.com/112160154631302983944 ) so i cant use TN matrix, only PVA or IPS , but which is better for gaming (faster)

I would highly recommend going for 1080p. You can always lower the resolution.Also afaik, most today IPS panels are quick (grey to grey) so I wouldn't worry about some ghosting. There are some budget IPS panels like AOC or Viewsonic and more but I would recommend going trough a review first and thats to say if price difference is quite significant btw say, viewsonic or dell, otherwise I'd grab a dell.


As for your concerns about prices back at home from this thread - http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?85067-VILAS-addons-release-thread/page186

http://www.pixmania.pl/pl/pl/home.html - They can be expensive too but they do have some great deals from time to time. Just leaving it here as an option.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ - Amazon rocks and I'm pretty positive they deliver to PL as well. Many items are at the best price and free delivery (EU*) is not uncommon at all.
( look for ''eligible for free delivery'' while listing trough desired item(s) )




Small question from me - I think about changing my DDR3 RAM from 4Gb to 8 Gb. Will it give me significant performance increase in Arma2?

Benchmark wise, probably yes but other than that, not really. Maybe for arma 3.

[vilas]

i have read that GeForce GTX 560 1024 MB DDR5 ( 830/4000, 256-bit ) GIGABYTE OC will be better and faster than GeForce GTX 650 2048 MB DDR5 ( 128-bit ) GIGABYTE OC ?
first has 1 GB memory, second 2 GB,
first cost 230 USD in PL, second 175 USD in PL, is it really much faster or only few percent ? cause gamers sometimes pay much more money to see few FPS more, but i would not pay 30% more to get for example 5 or 7 % better performance, but what can be "value for money" of them ?

http://www.hwcompare.com/13473/geforce-gtx-560-vs-geforce-gtx-650/

twice bigger power consumption is not good sound for mee (more noise of fans, bigger heat, bigger probablility of broke)

[Papanowel]

Is it possible for you to buy your computer spare parts in Germany? It will be cheaper for you (if shipping is possible and not expensive).
Like this: http://www.alternate.de/html/product/listing.html?navId=1346&tk=7&lk=1935

The GTX 650 is a lower mid-range gpu, I presume it is better to buy the 560 ti instead.

[vilas]

oh f***
in German stronger PC is cheaper than in PL weaker PC, where the hell i was born :(
for the same money i can have cheaper PC from Germany (where people earn 6 times more) :O
god... i just set strong PC with Nvidia 660 GTX and ... it is cheaper set than in PL for almost 100 EU
but probably Polish banks will sure take 100 PL for money transfer to DE, sorry cause i would have to go to politicall offtopic, really, i just set this and i have looked , 432 EU and i have parts with Nvidia 660 :O
in Poland i have for this maximum 560 GTX with twice less memory

:banghead:

i wonder what would be money transfer cost (bank's greed) + shipment,
i alredy have all Paypal donations on my bank account and it is 345 Euro (cause of course Paypal took their "exchange difference 3%" + "transfer rate ca 4-5% " etc. Paypal PL took ca. 7-8% of people's donations, official exchange rate is 3.21 PLN per 1 USD , Paypal exchanges it at 3.11 PLN per 1 USD, when somone sends 100 USD, Payapal show "your account income 95.40 USD" )

[ProfTournesol]

oh f***
in German stronger PC is cheaper than in PL weaker PC, where the hell i was born :(
for the same money i can have cheaper PC from Germany (where people earn 6 times more) :O
god... i just set strong PC with Nvidia 660 GTX and ... it is cheaper set than in PL for almost 100 EU
but probably Polish banks will sure take 100 PL for money transfer to DE, sorry cause i would have to go to politicall offtopic, really, i just set this and i have looked , 432 EU and i have parts with Nvidia 660 :O
in Poland i have for this maximum 560 GTX with twice less memory

:banghead:

i wonder what would be money transfer cost (bank's greed) + shipment,
i alredy have all Paypal donations on my bank account and it is 345 Euro (cause of course Paypal took their "exchange difference 3%" + "transfer rate ca 4-5% " etc. )

And a little trip to Germany, just long enough to buy a computer ?

[Papanowel]

And a little trip to Germany, just long enough to buy a computer ?

I'm sure it worth it.

[Spooky Lynx]

Yeah, I suppose it will be cheaper and faster for you, Vilas, to visit Germany and buy what you need in some local store. And then return home and assamble new PC:)

[vilas]

okay, so tell me, will it not limit power:

Nvidia 660 GTX, AMD 6100 box cooler, 4 GB ram, Asus M5A97 or M5A78 ???
such strong VGA and "low end" CPU ? okay for Arma2/3 ?

new 660GTX has lower power usage than 560 as I see for few Wattss

[Papanowel]

For the GPU it is definitely good for A3 but I don't know about the CPU.
It must be all right anyway.

[vilas]

and 550W Corsair should make it work ? i read that new VGAs (660, 650) are less power hungry than older 560, is it true?

[Spooky Lynx]

Try this (http://www.coolermaster.outervision.com/) thing - it may help you with PSU.

[Xeno426]

One option to getting a cheaper variant of Windows 7 would be to purchase it OEM. This locks your version of Windows to your current motherboard, but you can usually get the software for far cheaper; I'm currently running an OEM version of Windows 7 Ultimate that I got for $100 USD.

[vilas]

but 100 USD OEM in PL cost ... http://www.morele.net/komputery/oprogramowanie/systemy-operacyjne-196/0.00,0.00,,,,,,,,1997O184032.184031,1994O361528.361527,14363O184016/1/#product_list

120 USD for HOME !!! Ultimate cost ... uuuuuuuuuuuuuu Pro OEM costs nearly 170 USD here , it is M$ policy in my area (not starting offtopic discussion about pir... level in some areas of our globe)
if in your country you can buy Ultimate for 100 USD than you see for yourself... in my country i have to pay for it 2-3 times more to be legal, i live in Poland , not in normal country, so i have to pay 2-3 times more for M$ products to be legal




Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 32bit SP1 PL OEM
FQC-04629
Licencja: OEM
Typ: 7 Professional
539,00 zl
539 ZŁ/PLN divide by 3.1 and you have price in USD + it is cheap internet shop

and remind, it is not Ultimate you said, it is PRO

in EU we have so called VAT tax, US prices + 20-25% more + custom tax 9-10% ... + other taxes

[Xeno426]

What does Home and Pro regular cost in Poland as opposed to their OEM variants, though?

[Papanowel]

One option to getting a cheaper variant of Windows 7 would be to purchase it OEM. This locks your version of Windows to your current motherboard, but you can usually get the software for far cheaper;

Are you sure that the Win 7 OEM version is locked? I'm not that sure.


and 550W Corsair should make it work ? i read that new VGAs (660, 650) are less power hungry than older 560, is it true?

550W must be enough. If you really want to be OK you might take a 600+ W

[vilas]

What does Home and Pro regular cost in Poland as opposed to their OEM variants, though?

in Poland PL windows M$ costs are:

http://www.morele.net/komputery/oprogramowanie/systemy-operacyjne-196/0.00,0.00,,,,,,,,1997O184032,1994O361527.361528.361529,14363O184016/1/#product_list

535 Home Box
1029 Pro Box
1080 Ultimate Box

1 PLN=30 cents
1 USD = 3.1 PLN
1 CAD = 2 PLN (Canadian Dollar, AUS dollar )

[Xeno426]

Yep, the OEM variants cost about half of what the box ones do. It's just an option worth considering.

[vilas]

what are US/Canadian prices ? (ACTA war)

[Papanowel]

what are US/Canadian prices ? (ACTA war)

A bit cheaper than Polish one:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_7?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=windows+7&sprefix=windows%2Caps%2C120
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/shop

[vilas]

those prices in our part of the world are unfair
65% difference , 200 vs 330 USD makes difference , eh...
comparing to our salaries Windows PL should cost 40 USD for Pro at max and max 20 USD at Belarus or Albania or Ukraine etc.
Windows is 10 times overpriced here comparing to US

[Bee8190]

@<hidden> no need to bother with mortar shops to buy windows. You can easily download one off of MS store or elsewhere. If you have windows XP you should also be able to upgrade, further reducing the price.

If you have two friends who could use a new windows you can get a package of win 7 with license for 3 PC's here - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Windows-Premium-Upgrade-Licence/dp/B002MT21N6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1349367658&sr=8-9

More win7 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_kk_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Awindows+7&keywords=windows+7&ie=UTF8&qid=1349367612

and download off of MS UK - http://emea.microsoftstore.com/UK/en-GB/Microsoft/Windows/Windows-7


As for the CPU, while the FX 6100 price of some 130Eur is alright, even Intel i3 is better and more efficient. I strongly recommend not bothering with anything else than i5. You may spend a little on FX CPU right now but it will chase you back in not time begging for upgrade again. I'd also suggest hunting for a bargain of ebay. Just pick one that has plenty of feedback. I have pleasant experience mostly with german sellers but I'm far from regular e-buyer.


If you could trip to germany as mentioned, have a look at this page. It's all in german but once you register you can switch to english and I'm sure store like this will have a collect from store point.

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p688676_Intel-Core-i5-2500-4x-3-30GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p808125_Intel-Core-i5-3470-4x-3-20GHz-So-1155-TRAY.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p790406_Intel-Core-i5-3330-4x-3-00GHz-So-1155-BOX.html


GTX - I'm still positive the 550Ti or HD 7770 would serve you well and as for the above question wheather your CPU would bottleneck your 660, yes, the FX would not use its fullest potential of that GFX card.



EDIT - I selfishly keep talking about ENGLISH versions, not realizing you may be looking for PL version, correct? It didn't occur to me as, even though ENG isn't my first language, I personally can't stand non english version of windows

[vilas]

i5 is double price to AMD
also mainboards for Intel are as i see almost double priced (socket 1155)
not saying about socket 2011 which is 3 times more expensive (at least here )

5 INTEL CORE i5-3450 QuadCore 3.10 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 750.00
6 INTEL CORE i5-3470 QuadCore 3.20 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 780.00
7 INTEL CORE i5-3550 QuadCore 3.30 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 810.00
8 INTEL CORE i5-3570 QuadCore 3.40 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 90W, 22nm ) BOX 840.00
9 INTEL CORE i5-2500K QuadCore 3.30 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 95W ) BOX 880.00
10 INTEL CORE i5-3570K QuadCore 3.40 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 90W, 22nm ) BOX 920.00
11 INTEL CORE i7-3770 QuadCore 3.40 Ghz ( 8MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 1180.00
12 INTEL CORE i7-3770K QuadCore 3.50 Ghz ( 8MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 1310.00

and 2011 mainboards:


1 ASROCK X79 EXTREME3 INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 4x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000 770.00
2 ASUS P9X79 INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1000.00
3 ASUS P9X79 PRO INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1250.00
4 ASUS SABERTOOTH INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1340.00
5 ASUS P9X79 DELUXE INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND,2xLAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1440.00
6 ASUS P9X79 WS INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND,2xLAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394, FORMAT CEB 1440.00
7 ASUS RAMPAGE IV FORMULA3 INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1440.00
8 ASUS RAMPAGE IV EXTREME3 INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1660.00

compare with

1 AMD X4 FX-4100 ( 3600 Mhz/3800 Mhz TURBO, 12MB cache, 95W ) BOX 430.00
2 AMD X6 FX-6100 ( 3300 Mhz/3900 Mhz TURBO, 12MB cache, 95W ) BOX 470.00
3 AMD X4 FX-4170 ( 4200 Mhz, 12MB cache, 125W ) BOX 510.00
4 AMD X6 FX-6200 ( 3800 Mhz, 12MB cache, 125W ) BOX 550.00
5 AMD X8 FX-8120 ( 3100 Mhz/4000 Mhz TURBO, 16MB cache, 125W ) BOX 630.00
6 AMD X8 FX-8150 ( 3600 Mhz/4200 Mhz TURBO, 16MB cache, 125W ) BOX 760.00

AMD + mobo is 700-900 PLN
Intel i5 1155 + mobo is 1100-1500 PLN, at least 100 Eu difference and what for this HD2000 inside ? if i buy VGA anyway ?
Intel i7 2011 is 2000-3000 PLN

so you think that GTX 560 for such AM CPU would be almost as effective as GTX660 (which will not use it's power because it is not Intel)
i do not say abot Ti, cause price difference between 560 Ti and 660 not Ti is small while in tests they say that 660 not TI is almost twice stronger than 560Ti

and of course in UK shop i can't buy PL language windows ;)

[Tonci87]

@<hidden> no need to bother with mortar shops to buy windows. You can easily download one off of MS store or elsewhere. If you have windows XP you should also be able to upgrade, further reducing the price.

If you have two friends who could use a new windows you can get a package of win 7 with license for 3 PC's here - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Windows-Premium-Upgrade-Licence/dp/B002MT21N6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1349367658&sr=8-9

More win7 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_kk_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Awindows+7&keywords=windows+7&ie=UTF8&qid=1349367612

and download off of MS UK - http://emea.microsoftstore.com/UK/en-GB/Microsoft/Windows/Windows-7


As for the CPU, while the FX 6100 price of some 130Eur is alright, even Intel i3 is better and more efficient. I strongly recommend not bothering with anything else than i5. You may spend a little on FX CPU right now but it will chase you back in not time begging for upgrade again. I'd also suggest hunting for a bargain of ebay. Just pick one that has plenty of feedback. I have pleasant experience mostly with german sellers but I'm far from regular e-buyer.


If you could trip to germany as mentioned, have a look at this page. It's all in german but once you register you can switch to english and I'm sure store like this will have a collect from store point.

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p688676_Intel-Core-i5-2500-4x-3-30GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p808125_Intel-Core-i5-3470-4x-3-20GHz-So-1155-TRAY.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p790406_Intel-Core-i5-3330-4x-3-00GHz-So-1155-BOX.html


GTX - I'm still positive the 550Ti or HD 7770 would serve you well and as for the above question wheather your CPU would bottleneck your 660, yes, the FX would not use its fullest potential of that GFX card.



EDIT - I selfishly keep talking about ENGLISH versions, not realizing you may be looking for PL version, correct? It didn't occur to me as, even though ENG isn't my first language, I personally can't stand non english version of windows
Definately recommend Mindfactory, Great Shop with good prices.
They have their store at Wilhelmshaven

[vilas]

but of course i am concerned that I5 would be 2 times better than 8core AMD, i know it , look at FPS tests on Polish benchmark using Arma2 as benchmark
http://pclab.pl/art50465-10.html
FPS comparision
it would mean that i still collect donations for i5 ? i already have money to buy AMD FX 6100 + 560GTX Nvidia, for GTX660 and i5 i would need much more waiting (i am not patient) :/

what i5 you'd recommend than ? look at list from shop i shown post above, 3470, 3450, 3550,03570, and what for is that HD2000 if i get another VGA ? what for ?
i cannot understand why the hell they made VGA in CPU, really do not understand , cause VGA is separate part

[Bee8190]

@<hidden> I was talking about GTX 550 Ti, not 560Ti :)

The AMD FX - cpu is some 135Eur, according to currency converter. The Intels i5's I linked in the post above start from some 160Eur for new. I understand you're on very tight budget but I guarantee the 30-40Eur difference will be significant in the long run, especially for arma. Again, I'd strongly recommend looking at ebay for second hand piece. Friend of mine is buying stuff off of ebay all the time (PC-HW) and never had any issues whatsoever really.

As in per link - http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p790406_Intel-Core-i5-3330-4x-3-00GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p808125_Intel-Core-i5-3470-4x-3-20GHz-So-1155-TRAY.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p688676_Intel-Core-i5-2500-4x-3-30GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

These are the least I'd try to get and recommend.


The VGA on CPU's can serve as back up should you for any reason have to send back your dedicated but obviously the main reason is that some people (non gamers ;) ) doesn't require dedicated GFX but still obviously need some for video playback and the likes.

As for Mboards, there are cheaper alternatives and just as good as ASUS. Asrock offers fat package at very reasonable prices.



The windows thingy - Let me put it this way; If you're happy or don't mind english version you can look in UK or whole web where to get new windos for better prices than back at home.


@<hidden> - Thanks for clarification, I registered with them times ago when I was looking for something PC related that I couldn't find in my area but changed my mind in the end though.

[vilas]

so what exactly model of i5 i should take ? or even lowest model of i5 (shown above in my quotes from local shop) is stronger than AMD 6200, 6100 ? seems so ? if in Arma there would be a difference like 25 and 40 FPS it is probably worth, but other issue is VGA , than 660 would be best choice ? or 560 ? cause accoring to benchmarks 660 is twice stronger than 560 ? for me difference 660+i5 vs AMD+560 is 500 pln=130 eu and probably twice more fps

[Spooky Lynx]

Some days ago my VGA driver died, and another built-in videocard (in my MB) helped me a lot in reinstalling drivers. So I'd say some simple built-in videocard is quite useful in such kind of situations.

[vilas]

i5 3550/3570 ? or not big difference ? price difference is also small
mobo Asus P8H61/USB3 for it ?
and most quiet MSI 660 GTX (accord. to the benchm. MSI is most quiet)

good choice ? (i can have it for 530 EU (of course box cause shop assembles it with box, not pieces itself, but shop assemble + CPU SilentiumPC Fera Pro HE1224 cooler for 25EU (unless BOX cooler is silent without doing OC) + Corsair DDR3, 2x2 GB, 1600 Mhz, CL9, XMS3 with Classic Heat Spreader), i have 350 EU right now) without OS of course

and of course my old DVD, 550W Corsair psu (it is PCI-E ready, iX ready too, cause it is PSU from 2010)

[Papanowel]

For the mobo it's maybe better to get a P8Z77 instead of the old P8H61.

[Bee8190]

For the mobo it's maybe better to get a P8Z77 instead of the old P8H61.

Indeed Z77 would be better choice. I too thought that some Z68 gen Mboards could do it (we're on budget here :) ) but the price (no) difference just doesn't justify it.

Any i5 will. Just pick up one that is highest clocked (usually K versions) for the best price. Admittedly, seeing as amazon list the 2500K - 3750K for about the same price the choice is up to you.

Also the XMS3 ram sticks come at 1.65V I believe. I need to double check but 1.65V for RAM is no longer required nor recommended by intel as they claim it could damage the CPU. Let me know if the RAM is indeed 1.65V.


Edit -
SilentiumPC Fera Pro HE1224 cooler

I had a look at the cooler and reminds me of cooler master hyper 212 but I never heard of the above brand. From the looks of it the fan is rubbish and no doubt loud as fukk. I'd rather stick to the cooler master hyper as they are well known for their stuff.

[vilas]

460 PNL instead of 299 PLN, it makes difference , you all here say like i was living in US :P i live in poor corrupted country in which 20-25% of children are hungry (international humanitary organizations data) , 5% emigrated, 13% unemployed and usual man earns ca. 450-500 euro per month and , 150 Euro is for me big money etc.
i understand you want to say the best option for best performance but i live where i live , thanx to community i have 350 EU, without community i would not be even able to play Arma (at the moment after repairs of my 2006's PC Arma works for me for ca. 10 minutes, than freez, white screen, works again another 5-10 minutes , freeze, white screen) but at least Oxygen works :D
understand my position, for me this 50% of price difference between P8Z77 and P8H61 is big difference , i was talking with bank, they want 4,31 PLN per Euro,
so now when i found "bank Euro exchange rate" i see that differences between Polish and German shops are only 5-10%, so buying and ordering abroad is not for me when bank gives Euro exch. rate 4.31 when transfer (every bank does the same, they do not take big money for transfer, no, they take big exchange rate, so you cannot transfer cheap money, it is banksters job, they say "you pay only 20cents for transfer" but when you see exchange rate it is 4.31 PLN/1EU, while NBP (National Bank) gives "official average exchange rate 4.11"
bank buys Euro per 4.01 from you, but sells you Euro per 4.31, so 30 groshen by every 1 Euro (buy-sell) , just calculate yourself difference ,
i order something for 200 Euro or i pay You 200 Euro:
bank tells me to pay 862 Złoty for it
i get 200 Euro from you
i get 802 Złoty
where is 60 Złotys ??? they took away 15 Euro from 200 Euro transaction
(the same does Paypal and others , someone gave me 100 USD, i get 95.40 USD per 3,11 so it is 299 PLN, but if i would like to pay 100 USD i would be charged for 325 PLN at ease)

look at example :
someone gives me 100 bucks
paypal say i get 95
95*3,11=296PL PLN
so i am getting 296PL PLN
now i want to buy something abroad and i pay for it in US shop
296/3,21= 92 bucks
see ? 8 bucks disappeared


so you see... it is banks' job
having one currency in all countries have its disadvantages and advantages, noone from You will take exchange rate, but from me too, although i am not euro-currency lover , but when buying abroad it makes sense

[Bee8190]

@<hidden> thats because you're looking at ASUS boards. Even the cheapest asus is already overpriced for basic budget board. Don't you read my links ? :)

[Papanowel]

I though it would be the same price, Gigabyte is also making good MOBO.

[vilas]

MSI P67S-C43 (B3 ? mobo (i only say about availiable in cheapest shop in PL)

http://www.morele.net/komputery/podzespoly-komputerowe/plyty-glowne-42/200.00,499.99,,,,,,,,8173O501199,8187O360728/1/#product_list

???

edit, okay, i changed 1.65 V memory to 1.5 V memory

[Spooky Lynx]

460 PNL instead of 299 PLN, it makes difference , you all here say like i was living in US :P i live in poor corrupted country in which 20-25% of children are hungry (international humanitary organizations data) , 5% emigrated, 13% unemployed and usual man earns ca. 450-500 euro per month and , 150 Euro is for me big money etc.
i understand you want to say the best option for best performance but i live where i live , thanx to community i have 350 EU, without community i would not be even able to play Arma (at the moment after repairs of my 2006's PC Arma works for me for ca. 10 minutes, than freez, white screen, works again another 5-10 minutes , freeze, white screen) but at least Oxygen works :D
I live in nearly the same country but try to buy as powerful hardware as possible, because of one reason: you buy better hardware now -> you don't need to have upgrade for a longer period of time. It's better to spend one sum once in a 5 years than spend not so much less but once a 2-3 years.

[vilas]

I live in nearly the same country but try to buy as powerful hardware as possible, because of one reason: you buy better hardware now -> you don't need to have upgrade for a longer period of time. It's better to spend one sum once in a 5 years than spend not so much less but once a 2-3 years.
but you know ;) we talked some time ago, my flat bill and electricity power in home fee is much bigger than yours ;)
and of course i have other things to pay for (not only flat bills, not only food) but also some other things relate to life, so i simply won't be going far into PC when i have other things to pay, at the moment i can buy without problems AMD 6100, VGA 650 GTX etc.
i can save some money to buy in some period of time GTX 660, i5, but i can't save anything cause cost of living in capitol city is different, we earn in capitol city 10%-20% more than people who live in province, but we pay 30% more for all kind of services including city transport tickets which will raise again from Jan 2013 , including electricity and water which raised 15% since July etc. so even for egg (egg from chicken) people pay 80 groszy in Lomza, while in Warsaw in shop i pay 1.50 PLN (150 groszy) , for flat bill my auntie pays 100 Euro, she has 45 square metter flat on border of Warsaw, she pays 100 Euro including water, sewage, etc. , me and my girlfriend pay 125 (if you are owner) + (100 to owner for hire) Euro for 32 square metter flat without water bill +30 for electricity + some for water + gas, my mother pays for her much smaller flat bill 110 EU per month , while men in Ciechanow, Lomza, Bialystok pays 50 EU for 50 square metter flat (of course he has unemployment rate there high)
so i am calculating i am living in center of my country and almost in center of my city etc.
if i had my own flat (not need to hire it and pay to owner) a little far from "the city" like Targowek or like Wola or Brodno i would save 50-100 EU per month for sure ;) as Topas, he has to hire flat, 250-300 EU each month, how can you save anything when you earn 550 up to 600 ? till i won't win lottery i won't have my own flat (another way is to merry someone who has flat, not happened so far ) Warsaw is expensive city, not as Moscov, but i am born here and i have to live here cause there is my work and there are my friends, relatives, girlfriend family etc.
being not-owner of house makes you to pay for hire, cause since 1989 we have no state-given for free flats like before 89, the only way to avoid paying is having flat for own, which means ca. 70-100 000 EU to buy such flat in my city (credit for 40 years)

[DualJoe]

Villas I don't know if you intend to overclock, but I'm not liking what I'm hearing of the latest generation Intel. From what I hear they have some major cooling problems and therefore have much less headroom than the 2000-generation.

A buddy of mine bought one and he's hitting 60 degrees celsius at stock-clock and that is with watercooling.

As a side note about future proof buying, don't try and be future proof by buying more expensive now. No matter how good it is now it will most likely be blown away by cheap stuff in the future anyway. Or by some new tech. Just buy good enough and keep some money in reserve for future upgrades. I've bought a bulldozer 8120 with the intent to upgrade in a couple of years.

Also don't rule out AMD just because it's the popular thing to do. I have yet to see any real performance benefits in games in favor of intel. My GTX560TI and harddisks are my limiting factors. I can tell you it's plenty powerful for 3d-rendering and other multi-threaded stuff. I can do simultaneous hd-videoencoding plus sculpting and rendering my 17 million-vert terrain, browsing listening to music and watching multiple fullhd-videos, without a single stutter or lag. It even throttles down for arcade games like BF3 on ultra-settings.

Intel only seems to have some benefit if you're planning triple/quad sli.

EDIT
Oh I forgot to mention that I run linux, I only run windows for Arma, so I haven't really stress tested under Windows 7. Arma2 uses around 4 cores with only one maxing out around 75%.

[vilas]

but benchmarks say that i5 has some FPS more than 8100 AMD, it is 60% more expensive as CPU (but in whole PC it is 10% more) but it gives 15-25% FPS income in FPS in different games tested by benchmark-makers, and sometimes difference between 27 and 32 FPS is you know... very visible, cause this 25-29 is this barrier for our eyes to see smooth movement
and Arma is my PC priority, i do not need stronger PC for anything else cause other games i play very rare (as in 2006/7 when i bought current PC only due to end of OFP)
but i plan 24 or 27 inch LCD, so i need strong setup to have 1920*1080 instead of 1280*1024 now
i planned AMD 6100 in begining only because of it's 95 W, less to cool
i5 3750 is 77 W , so less electricity, less temp, less noise for fan (i like silence)
so CPU which you refer was not even under my consideration cause it is 125W (3 bulbs in room, right ? and PC works countless hours which imply kWh cost by year, 48W more (i5 and 8100) * average 8 h/daily*350 days/y = 134 kWh per year= maybe not too much money but in few years difference between i5 and 125W AMD is zeroed, at least in my country prices, after few years this different vanishes, so if i count PC for several years, than this 77W vs 125W is important too, plus of course to cool it cooler takes it's cents )
overclocked AMD to reach level of i5 would burn 140 Watts probably, right ?
maybe it is not big money but after several years it can be difference between i5 and strong and overclocked AMD that is zeroed,
count yourself kWh in your country, maybe it is penny not worth mentioning, maybe, but looking from some years perspective this can be difference in price between those CPUs

[DualJoe]

You're free to choose what you want, I won't stop you, but you won't get 15% more fps. So if the price difference is minimal, I'd understand going with intel.

As I said, I have not seen a single test where an i5 gets a better fps in games (including arma) then my cheap fx8120 or just about any cpu that can fill the gpu. Both i5 and bulldozer are severe overkill for Arma2 and you'll be lucky to even reach 50% total cpu usage.

Don't know my exact power-consumption, can't measure it. However I do run a silent air-cooled system (apart from the GPU dammit) and I only did a very quick multiplier increase (no voltage) running 4100 Ghz now and only with very long 100% usage do I get up to 60 degrees. Seeing how my friends Intel is running hotter at a lower clock with watercooling, I very much doubt I'm using 125 more watts of power.

I do admit I wanted multi-threaded horse-power over game-power, also with linux the bulldozers aren't all that bad compared to intel. However I've since discovered that most claims about bulldozer being terrible at games are plain rubbish.

[vilas]

have you seen benchmark of website using Arma2 OA for tests ?

http://pclab.pl/art50465-10.html

look at FPS 27 on AMD and 41 on i5, i don't plan OC, i am interested in basic power of cpu without OCing it

+
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/07/27/amd-fx-8120-review/7
this review
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/07/27/amd-fx-8120-review/6
woow , another one using Arma2 OA as benchmark
look at i5 3570 vs ... i wanted to buy AMD 6100, its not even present there

[DualJoe]

Ok, fair enough, I hadn't seen those tests no, very odd results.

I've only compared with people with the same videocard (GTX560TI no idea how that compares to the one on that site) that I have on this forum with the same settings only different cpu and I had the exact same framerate. I don't know what settings they use on that site, but I know I'm running double the framerates easily compared to the ones they've posted and I'm not even close to their overclock and I have VSync on. (Does setting a multiplier instead of turbo-core even count as overclocking?) What kind of monster-test did they make to get 27 average?

Even I would think twice if I saw those kinds of differences. Damn, just how weak is my GTX560TI if it can only go up to about 75% cpu usage with arma on a single core and the 7 others sitting idly by.

EDIT
Hang on a second.
What's up with the weird arma2 settings of the last one? Stressing the cpu by putting everything on very high even Video memory? Texture and Object Detail on very high and video memory not on default has been called silly more than once by numerous bistudio devs. How's that gonna stress the cpu? That's why I hate review sites, they do so many weird things I can't make sense of their results anymore. Wish they'd just post the mission so I could run the benchmark myself, with realistic settings.

[Tonci87]

Intel>AMD
Seriously

[DiFool]

Maybe more cores are supported by Arma3 and thus will give a 8core bulldozer an advantage over an e.g. I5 4core Intel. Who knows?
No matter what you buy you will never be able to play Arma2 with highest settings and max view distance. :)
I'm fully pleased with my system (see below) and it's been expensive enough.

[kklownboy]

i can play on the desert map with all max and 10k VD? But i can also play with all max (6xAA) and 3k on all maps but Cherno, in places...HD7970.

The top of the line Kit right now will play A2OA Max @<hidden> 1080p. VD and clutter will always be a issue. Guess the issue is wanting 120fps on a 120hz Display...

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------


.... Both i5 and bulldozer are severe overkill for Arma2 and you'll be lucky to even reach 50% total cpu usage.

...
....My Bloomfield gets over 50% on three cores depending on the mission and resolution on my display. One core is in the high 20s/low 30s, the others are 47% to 100% . Tho the low core did hit 80% for a bit.

[gruntsaez92]

alright so my specs are:
Processor: AMD FX(tm)-4100
Quad-Core Processor
3.60 GHz
Installed memory(RAM): 16.0 GB
System Type: 64-bit
Video Graphics Card: AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series

I get at most 30 FPS in-game(online).


language="English";
adapter=-1;
3D_Performance=93750;
Resolution_Bpp=32;
Windowed=0;
Resolution_W=1920;
Resolution_H=1080;
refresh=60;
winX=16;
winY=32;
winW=1901;
winH=1004;
winDefW=1901;
winDefH=1004;
Render_W=1920;
Render_H=1080;
FSAA=0;
postFX=5;
GPU_MaxFramesAhead=1000;
GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=3;
HDRPrecision=8;
lastDeviceId="";
localVRAM=2147483647;
nonlocalVRAM=2147483647;
vsync=0;
AToC=0;
FXAA=0;
PPAA=3;
PPAA_Level=3;
serverLongitude=-1747632;
serverLatitude=-2907680;


IDK if this helps any but this is what im running for my video settings. i also run evrythin on very high or high, any suggestions as to how to get higher FPS will be greatly appreciated :)

[DualJoe]

You could post a screenshot of your ingame settings with viewdistance and such.

No idea how a 7900 compares to a GTX560 with 1 Gig Vram, but the only time I get down to 30 fps is when I use vsync in combination with screencapture which forces 30 fps. Hell even running the benchmarks on linux via WINE gets me around 30 fps average.

And that's with a fx8120 with turbo turned off and multiplier adjusted to about 4Ghz and on a 1920x1200 resolution screen.

Would be nice to have a set of test missions to compare performance against. I believe PVP-scene has some gpu-test missions, but those don't stress the cpu at all.

[sesdelta38]

Hello all. I'm once interested in building a gaming PC.

I was hoping to build one with a Core i5 cpu and an Ati Radeon 7770. Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Also, is an ssd a needed feature?

[Bee8190]

Hello all. I'm once interested in building a gaming PC.

I was hoping to build one with a Core i5 cpu and an Ati Radeon 7770. Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Also, is an ssd a needed feature?


If you can tell us your budget and when you'd like to build one, I'll be happy to help.

SSD - became vital part of modern PC's just as CPU and GFX. It's not a ''mandatory'' but it's good to have one :)

[Papanowel]

SSD is a must have.
For 100$ more you can buy a Gforce 660 instead of the 7770.

[sesdelta38]

If you can tell us your budget and when you'd like to build one, I'll be happy to help.

SSD - became vital part of modern PC's just as CPU and GFX. It's not a ''mandatory'' but it's good to have one :)

Well, I'm a 17-year old looking for employment, so I'm gonna be paying for most of it myself. Around $1,000 is gonna be my budget when I get employed somewhere.

[Bee8190]

Well, I'm a 17-year old looking for employment, so I'm gonna be paying for most of it myself. Around $1,000 is gonna be my budget when I get employed somewhere.

Yup one large will get you nice gaming PC, even if monitor is not included. However since HW pricing changes all the time, again, let us know when you about to order the parts. Meanwhile, best of luck to you :)

[sesdelta38]

Yup one large will get you nice gaming PC, even if monitor is not included. However since HW pricing changes all the time, again, let us know when you about to order the parts. Meanwhile, best of luck to you :)
While I'm getting the parts when I have a job, I want to get that list out of the way.

All I know right now is that the cpu I'm gonna get is a Core i5.

[Spooky Lynx]

I got a Panasonic SC-HT855 (http://www.otest.co.uk/test-results/panasonic-sc-ht855-69184.html#datasheet) DVD home theatre system for free some days ago, but don't know how to connect it to my PC to have 5.1 speakers. Is there any ability to do this? May anybody help me?

[JeffersPang]

Hi, I'm planning on getting a PC with Intel Core i5 2550 (4x3.4GHz), nVidia GTX 670 2GB and 16GB RAM, may I know how well will ArmAII will perform on it? (in terms of an estimated FPS on high settings).

[Xeno426]

I doubt you'll need 16GB of RAM. Unless you're running something like CAD, you'll do fine with 8GB.

[JeffersPang]

I doubt you'll need 16GB of RAM. Unless you're running something like CAD, you'll do fine with 8GB.

I'm actually buying this PC to run AutoCAD and Revit Architecture etc.. I just wanted how ArmAII will run on the above

[Xeno426]

I'm actually buying this PC to run AutoCAD and Revit Architecture etc.. I just wanted how ArmAII will run on the above
Lol, you're the first person I've given that advice to that actually is going to run AutoCAD. :D
My primary concern then is that your processor may be too slow. You should be able to run ArmA2 fine, but you may want to get a faster processor to future proof yourself for ArmA3. I'm getting an i5 3570K (the K means it's unlocked and can be overclocked). Cost may be your primary factor here, though.

[JeffersPang]

Lol, you're the first person I've given that advice to that actually is going to run AutoCAD. :D
My primary concern then is that your processor may be too slow. You should be able to run ArmA2 fine, but you may want to get a faster processor to future proof yourself for ArmA3. I'm getting an i5 3570K (the K means it's unlocked and can be overclocked). Cost may be your primary factor here, though.

Thanks for the input. In that case, I've decided that I'll go for the i7 3770 (no K) (4 x 3.4 GHz), what do you think about this?

[Xeno426]

I'd get a K version. It's only about $10 more expensive, and gives you a lot more options in case you want to overclock in the future.
That will work, but the i7 has a very minimal performance improvement over the i5. You get more bang for your buck with the i5 series.

[Tonci87]

Not if he really wants to use it for CAD stuff. Hyperthreading helps a lot! So go for an i7

[Xeno426]

Ah, true. I (again) hadn't considered CAD use.

[JeffersPang]

Again thanks guys for the answers :) Just one last question, I'm not good with electrical so I was hoping someone can help out.

I need a 700-750 Watts power supply to run the Graphics Card but the UK mains give about 240 volts. I was able to successfully use my kettle on the same plugs (consumes around 1800-2200 Watts) on numerous occasion without melting any fuses (granted I didn't keep it plugged in and boiling and only plugged it in for 2-3 minutes). So I what I'm asking is will the 750 Watts running for quite some time blow the fuse in standard UK mains?

[Xeno426]

I'm afraid that question is outside my area of experience. Although a 750W should be enough to power your computer, assuming you don't have a crap load of HDD's or aren't running SLi/Crossfire.
I should note you want to make sure that's 750W true/sustained power, not peak power.

[Derbysieger]

No need for 750W if you're only running a single GPU. The Sys in my sig runs on a 525W PSU ;) and I still have room for a few more HDDs (currently 3HDDs plus 2 SSDs). If you want to be sure go for a 600W PSU but unless you plan on SLI/crossfire and/or a huge amount of HDDs more than 600W is definitely overkill. Just make sure it's a certified PSU and not some cheap no name product.

[JeffersPang]

No need for 750W if you're only running a single GPU. The Sys in my sig runs on a 525W PSU ;) and I still have room for a few more HDDs (currently 3HDDs plus 2 SSDs). If you want to be sure go for a 600W PSU but unless you plan on SLI/crossfire and/or a huge amount of HDDs more than 600W is definitely overkill. Just make sure it's a certified PSU and not some cheap no name product.

Ok cheers, I was under the impression that the bigger the better, just realised that 600Watts is enough to run the single GPU I need. I also noticed that on your sig, your GPU is 'Gainward', what exactly is gainward?

[Derbysieger]

Gainward is just a brand like Sapphire or ASUS ;)

[Placebo]

Anyone had low mic volume issues with an onboard realtek soundcard and been able to fix it? Real bloody pain, tried all the tweaks, bought 4 different mics and no matter what the sound is crazy low, yet if I plug the mics into my wife's laptop they work perfectly. Need the mic to work well for talking on skype.

[Xeno426]

Anyone had low mic volume issues with an onboard realtek soundcard and been able to fix it? Real bloody pain, tried all the tweaks, bought 4 different mics and no matter what the sound is crazy low, yet if I plug the mics into my wife's laptop they work perfectly. Need the mic to work well for talking on skype.
Have you made sure you have mic boost on?

[MissileMoose]

Anyone had low mic volume issues with an onboard realtek soundcard and been able to fix it? Real bloody pain, tried all the tweaks, bought 4 different mics and no matter what the sound is crazy low, yet if I plug the mics into my wife's laptop they work perfectly. Need the mic to work well for talking on skype.

Just to confirm, you do have your volume levels up to 100%?

http://i.imgur.com/7Yp55.png

[Placebo]

Yup they're the things I tried :(

[Spooky Lynx]

Guys, I have some problem. Got this mainboard (http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P28.html) for sake of saving time and money (it took me a little cash to get it) after my old good passed away. Also I have this video card (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gts-450-oem-us.html) and Creative Sound blaster X-Fi Xtreme audio PCI card. So now I seek for the way to connect sound card to mainboard, as VGA card occupies almost all available space near the PCI slots, and I have only one PCI slot available to plug anything in it. Sounf card can't be plugged in mainboard, there's not enough space for it because of VGA card. Any suggestions?

[Tonci87]

Return it, that MB is outdated by any means.
Oh and don´t go for Mini ATX Mainboards if you want to make a gaming PC. They are not build to have big GPUs on them.

[Spooky Lynx]

Return it, that MB is outdated by any means.
Oh and don´t go for Mini ATX Mainboards if you want to make a gaming PC. They are not build to have big GPUs on them.
Unfortunately returning is not an option - I have to use my old Socket 775 CPU until I get enough cash for migrating to modern socket (1155 maybe). And any full-ATX S775 MBs aren't available for me anymore, only mATX:( Have to wait until I finish my appartments refit because all money go there.

[NeMeSiS]

I dont think USB to PCI connectors exist. If you had a PCIe1x slot left you could have gotten a PCIe to PCI adapter but i am afraid the amount of slots on your motherboard is a bit... Sparse.

X-Fi cards arent very big, cant you just force it in so it kinda touches the plastic heatsinkstuff of the videocard without blocking the fan? :p

[Spooky Lynx]

X-Fi cards arent very big, cant you just force it in so it kinda touches the plastic heatsinkstuff of the videocard without blocking the fan? :p
There's a little chance not to block the fan of VGA. But I'll try again. Maybe after some beer I'll manage to do it:D
Found some soultion:
http://www.supermicro.com/a_images/products/Accessories/CSE-RR32-1U.jpg
CSE-RR32-1U Riser card.
Although it's server stuff, I suppose it will help me to solve the problem. Also there's similar card:
http://www.supermicro.com/a_images/products/Accessories/CSE-RR2U-X33.jpg
but it's PCI-X bus. I've read PCI-X and PCI hardware can work together but it will work with less fast PCI frequencies. Am I right?

[froggyluv]

Just bought a new set of Rosewill headphones that realy sound outstanding. Only problem is -Arma 2 won't work on them. All of my other games play and sound great but with Arma there is just no sound period. If I disable the headset and enable my old speakers it works -but vice versa a no go and I very disappoint.

The headset is the type with dual USB plugs and Im wondering if this is somehow having a negative effect as with my old headset (the kind with the green audio jack and pink microphone cord) I never had any probelem switching between speaker/headset even mid game.

Edit: Found this happens with Arma Beta only -not standard 1.62

Double Edit: NM:Updated headset drivers fixed it. Sorry for false alarm :)

[cjgsicknote]

hi all got a query and someone here may be able to please advise me! Recently i bought a crucial m4 128gb ssd. I removed my old hdd and clean installed windows to my ssd. I then put my old hdd back into my machine running alongside my new ssd. I quickly realised i could now boot into either drive giving me, in effect, two computers. I can access steam on my hdd when booted to my ssd and all seems to run fine etc etc. My question is though; is this a normal practice?, can this harm your pc?, i seem to have different versions of driver for my gpu on my ssd and hdd so will this affect anything? Any info on this sort of thing would be greatly appreciated, i seem to have very quickly built my first rig having no prior experience and whilst everything seems to work as desired i keep running into questions about my machine that i have no answer for!!.

[Xeno426]

What you've got is a classic dual-boot system. While you can do it, there's really no benefit to having a dual-boot system when both run the same operating system. I'd suggest running a different operating system on one hard drive (like Linux) or a different version of windows (for game compatibility) if you want to continue doing it. Otherwise you're really just taking up extra space for that redundant operating system.

[vilas]

there is something wrong with M$, is it the same in your countries ?
in my country price of 7 rosen for doznens of percent after 8 :O
i wanted to buy this new PC, i had it almost completed , Windows 7 Home in Poland costed 530 PLN 2 weeks ago
now today when i wanted to click "buy" ... it costs 700 PLN (170 EU, 220 USD) :O
700/530 = 32 % price up, wtf ??? it should go down when new product is up
i would never expect 30% price rise after premiere of Win 8 :|

[Spooky Lynx]

Maybe the first price was without any taxes and the last one - with all taxes included?

[vilas]

no, it was "shoping cart" in webshop, so it was saved position in virtual cart, i was waiting for premiere of 8 with natural hope that after it i will buy whole PC cheaper cause price of 7 should go down, instead of this i see this +170 PLN surprise, so is it the same in other countries ?
after premiere of Vista prices of XP went down, after premiere of 7 prices of Vista went down, but here ???

[Derbysieger]

win 7 home premium 64bit is about 70-80€ here in germany. I'd strongly recommend to buy it in an other EU country because 170€ for home premium is absurd. That's 90-100€ more than here in germany.

price developement over the last year doesn't show any large spikes like you describe: http://geizhals.at/de/?phist=620886&age=365

[Xeno426]

One thing to keep in mind; unless you get Windows 7 Ultimate or Professional, you *don't* have Windows XP mode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Virtual_PC#Windows_XP_Mode), which might be of concern to you if you still use a lot of Windows XP applications.
I've also seen Windows 7 Ultimate OEM for sale at the $100 USD price range, which is about 78€. Given that Ultimate can switch between some 37 languages without issue, I don't think it really matters which language version you get, so long as you know enough English to install.

[Kyle_K_ski]

Hello Folks!

A little over a year ago, I built my very first computer, and it didn't blow up and is still working fine (*knock on wood - hard*). I'm still very much a newbie when it comes to these things, and I'm hoping to have my confidence boosted in regards to what I should do next to best update my system. I'm seeking to take advantage of the upcoming Christmas sales and rebates, and I'd like to be ready to jump on some deals, but I want to ensure that they're The Best deals for my system, so I'm here for some sound advice.

What's the most economical means to get better performance? Is it by purchasing more RAM? By adding an additional graphics card of the same design using Crossfire, or...?

Right now, I'm mostly leaning towards buying a couple of more sticks of RAM. Here's what I already have in my tower:
A-DATA XPG Gaming Series v2.0 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model AX3U1600GB2G9-DG2

If I purchse more RAM, am I correct that it MUST HAVE the following specifications: 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 ?

If the above is true, I can still purchase RAM that's been designed by a company other than A-DATA, right? Would I be better off purchasing RAM made by the same company, or...?

And that new RAM can be a higher rating than 2 x 2GB, correct? If I wanted to buy 2 sticks of 4 GB RAM (8GB total), that should work well with my current setup, correct? Altogether then, if I made such a purchase, I'd have my 4GB of old RAM + 8GB of new RAM = a grand total of 12GB.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the AMD Phenom II X4 840 Edition Deneb 3.2 GHz 4x512 KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor has a RAM "choke point" of 12 GB ~ am I correct on this, or is the choke point different? Needless to say, I don't want to purchase more RAM than my system can efficiently handle.

The other way that I could go is to purchase another HIS Radeon graphics card to combine with my old card with the Catalyst system. MUST the graphics cards be identical, or can I buy a newer/better AMD card that's Catalyst ready, and use that combination of older/newer designs instead? The card that I'm currently using is a HIS Radeon HD 6850 1 GB (256bit) GDDR5 Eyefinity Display Port HDMI 2x DVI (HDCP) Retail (RoHS) PCI Express X16 2.1 Video Card.

If there's anything else that you think might be useful for me to consider, please feel free to recommend it.

[Xeno426]

What's the most economical means to get better performance? Is it by purchasing more RAM? By adding an additional graphics card of the same design using Crossfire, or...?
XFire and SLi are very expensive options that you only really see benefit from when you are looking at top FPS for max settings. Quite often you're better off just spending an extra $100 on a decent graphics card.


Right now, I'm mostly leaning towards buying a couple of more sticks of RAM. Here's what I already have in my tower:
A-DATA XPG Gaming Series v2.0 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model AX3U1600GB2G9-DG2

If I purchse more RAM, am I correct that it MUST HAVE the following specifications: 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 ?
RAM is pretty much interchangeable. What matters is the type (DDR3), clock speed (PC1600) and whether or not it has ECC. Your motherboard manufacturer should have a Qualified Vendors List (QVL) for all RAM types that have been tested to work with the motherboard you have. Just try to make sure that all your sticks are the same size.
If you get more RAM, it must be 240-pin DDR3 (all SDRAM DDR3 is 240-pin anyway), but can be other speeds (PC2000, for instance), but you really don't need more than PC1600. The term "SDRAM" isn't really necessary when you're talking PC, since it's all SDRAM. Other RAM types come into the mix when you get into laptops, but since we're shying away from dirty laptops you can ignore those. :D



And that new RAM can be a higher rating than 2 x 2GB, correct? If I wanted to buy 2 sticks of 4 GB RAM (8GB total), that should work well with my current setup, correct? Altogether then, if I made such a purchase, I'd have my 4GB of old RAM + 8GB of new RAM = a grand total of 12GB.
You can get 4x2GB or 2x4GB, or whatever up to the max your motherboard and operating system allow. As stated above, you want to try and make sure all your sticks are the same size. You also won't really need more than 8GB, unless you do lots of graphic editing, like JeffersPang.
Keep in mind that if you have a 32-bit OS, you only get the benefit of 4GB max. Ever. And if you have Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, you have a max memory size of 16GB and only 8GB on Home Basic. Anything above Windows 7 Home Premium supports 192GB or RAM.


The other way that I could go is to purchase another HIS Radeon graphics card to combine with my old card with the Catalyst system. MUST the graphics cards be identical, or can I buy a newer/better AMD card that's Catalyst ready, and use that combination of older/newer designs instead? The card that I'm currently using is a HIS Radeon HD 6850 1 GB (256bit) GDDR5 Eyefinity Display Port HDMI 2x DVI (HDCP) Retail (RoHS) PCI Express X16 2.1 Video Card.
Yes, all cards must be the same. I'd suggest getting a newer, better card and replacing your current one. Although the 6850 is still a good card, so you will probably be fine until the next generation of consoles come out so long as you don't mind the fact you won't be able to maximize the settings all your games.
If you are going to upgrade, check to see what version of PCIe your motherboard uses. If it's PCIe 3.0, get one of those graphics cards. If it's PCIe 2.0/2.1, then you're not going to see the full performance of a PCIe 3.0 graphics card, though it will still work in your system.


If there's anything else that you think might be useful for me to consider, please feel free to recommend it.
ArmA is extremely CPU-intensive, more so than other shooters which tend to hog more of the GPU (graphics card). Since you probably don't want to upgrade your mobo and CPU for an Intel (which provide better ArmA performance), look into upgrading your CPU if you can. You might also look at getting a better CPU fan or a new case with better air flow so that you can overclock your system--AMD processors overclock pretty well. Another BIG help with ArmA and many other large games that need to do a lot of loading would be to get an SSD, probably larger than 200GB since you'll want to put your OS on it as well. If you have ArmA through Steam, there's some handy tools that can be used to move your game to your SSD without forcing you to place all your Steam games on that drive.
FYI, you can get a Samsung 830 Series 256GB (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-830-Series-MZ-7PC256N-Internal/dp/B005T3GPXY) on Amazon for about $225 USD, which is a pretty good deal at the moment. There are other options out there, but this one came to mind 'cause I purchased one recently. Booting is so much faster now as well. :D

[Kyle_K_ski]

Xeno - thank you for your detailed help. A few more questions, if you don't mind.

I just looked into my power demand on my system if I added an additional HIS Radeon HD 6850 graphics card using the Crossfire system. I used the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite website ( http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine ), and I came up with a figure of 502 W. I was gifted a 600 W Cool Master 600W Green Power Prod. No.: RS-600-ASAA. I don't have a clue as to its age, so there's no way for me to even get a rough idea of the impact of the capacitor's aging. I know that the previous owner is a devoted fanatic to supplying a lot of cooling, and low energy consumption, so that's probably in the favor of the performance of this already-used PSU.

But let's pretend that I have a miracle PSU, and it's still fully providing 600 W ~ if my system is demanding 502 W, isn't that running the system hard, and should be avoided, or...? Is there a "safety buffer" of just how much power's drawn versus what's provided?

Also, a little bit more clarity in regards to the RAM. You state that they must all be the same size, 240-pin DDR3, up to the limits of my processor and operating system. I purchased/installed Windows 7 Professional Upgrade 64-bit, so I'm assuming that my maximum limit of RAM is an astounding 192GB! Oh, if I only had the $.

Earlier tonight, I had a conversation with a neighbor who said that buying more RAM won't do much more for me other than speed up loading times, and that its impact on framerates in the game are minimal. Is this true? I would think that going from 4GB of RAM to 12GB would do "more" than boost loading times, yes? RAM was always explained to me as being a mechanism to help speed up your system's performance, but honestly, when I think about that statement, it is rather vague. If I'm mistaken on this, or if you have some words that would add greater clarity and accuracy to how I think about what RAM can and can't do.

My neighbor said that I would be much better off either adding another HIS Radeon HD 6850 graphics card, or, better yet, getting a newer and better graphics card (of course, this is if my power supply can handle it).

I guess that my bottom-line concern right now with this upgrade is to achieve silky smooth framerates in ArmA 2 at maximum settings (I'm already fairly close to that now - framerates get a bit choppy if I have 50+ AI units using a sophisticated urban combat script on Lingor, for example), and I'd like this upgrade to set me up to be in a pleasant (not perfect) position for when ArmA 3's released.

Again, any detailed advice will be most warmly accepted. :)

[Xeno426]

I just looked into my power demand on my system if I added an additional HIS Radeon HD 6850 graphics card using the Crossfire system. I used the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite website ( http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine ), and I came up with a figure of 502 W. I was gifted a 600 W Cool Master 600W Green Power Prod. No.: RS-600-ASAA. I don't have a clue as to its age, so there's no way for me to even get a rough idea of the impact of the capacitor's aging. I know that the previous owner is a devoted fanatic to supplying a lot of cooling, and low energy consumption, so that's probably in the favor of the performance of this already-used PSU.

But let's pretend that I have a miracle PSU, and it's still fully providing 600 W ~ if my system is demanding 502 W, isn't that running the system hard, and should be avoided, or...? Is there a "safety buffer" of just how much power's drawn versus what's provided?
600W, as long as that's true power (and not peak) should be fine. If you plan to get a bunch of HDD's you may need more, and newer graphics cards tend to require more juice (though likely not more than two of your current cards). My only concern is that "Green Power" stamp; most "green" computer products have crappy performance—particularly hard drives—and should be avoided by gamers with one caveat; green hard drives are fine for general media storage, though don't expect to transfer files to/from them very quickly.
Having extra power in your PSU is, as far as I know, only a waste on your wallet. Someone more knowledgeable about them might know if they draw more power from your house—I'm not sure if they do or not—but it's not going to damage your computer system. The PSU is designed to not give more power to your computer than it requires.


Also, a little bit more clarity in regards to the RAM. You state that they must all be the same size, 240-pin DDR3, up to the limits of my processor and operating system. I purchased/installed Windows 7 Professional Upgrade 64-bit, so I'm assuming that my maximum limit of RAM is an astounding 192GB! Oh, if I only had the $.
Only the RAM pairs (if your motherboard is dual-channel) have to be the exact same gigabyte size. It is recommended that all your RAM sticks be the same size, though. I'd also point out there's no way in hell you're going to find a motherboard that supports 192GB of RAM. The only thing that will come close are server boxes, and you don't need that.


Earlier tonight, I had a conversation with a neighbor who said that buying more RAM won't do much more for me other than speed up loading times, and that its impact on framerates in the game are minimal. Is this true? I would think that going from 4GB of RAM to 12GB would do "more" than boost loading times, yes? RAM was always explained to me as being a mechanism to help speed up your system's performance, but honestly, when I think about that statement, it is rather vague. If I'm mistaken on this, or if you have some words that would add greater clarity and accuracy to how I think about what RAM can and can't do.
RAM is where all the data your computer is actively working with is stored, kinda like the work bench. More RAM is like having a larger workspace on the computer's bench. When there's not enough room in RAM to do everything the computer wants, it begins using a pagefile, also known as a swapfile, which is stored on one of the hard drives. This is kinda like putting stuff from the work bench into a nearby toolbox; it clears up space on the bench (the RAM), but puts it away in the slowest component of your computer—the hard drive. Getting more RAM can improve FPS because more of the data the game needs to work with will already be in RAM and not in the pagefile. That said, buying another pair of 2x2GB PC1600 sticks should be good enough. Keep in mind that Windows 7 needs between 1-2GB of RAM to operate optimally, which leaves you 2GB on your current system for everything else—this includes all your background programs.


My neighbor said that I would be much better off either adding another HIS Radeon HD 6850 graphics card, or, better yet, getting a newer and better graphics card (of course, this is if my power supply can handle it).
Hmm, don't know about that. I ran with an SLi setup for quite a while, and you really don't see any improvement unless you have a CPU that can really handle it. Again, you only see improvement from Xfire/SLi in the upper-range settings. Unless you're already able to somewhat acceptably run all your games—and games that will soon come out—at max settings, I don't think you'll see much improvement. If you want to future-proof your system for ArmA3, you'd be better off waiting until more information on the requirements come out and getting a completely new graphics card to match it.


I guess that my bottom-line concern right now with this upgrade is to achieve silky smooth framerates in ArmA 2 at maximum settings (I'm already fairly close to that now - framerates get a bit choppy if I have 50+ AI units using a sophisticated urban combat script on Lingor, for example), and I'd like this upgrade to set me up to be in a pleasant (not perfect) position for when ArmA 3's released.
The ArmA series of games (ArmA, ArmA2, probably ArmA3) rely more on your CPU than GPU. AI and scripts are completely CPU-dependent, so if you want better performance in those areas you've got to get a better processor or start overclocking. Intel chips perform better than AMD processors on ArmA2 almost across the board, but that kind of upgrade would require you to get a new motherboard on top of your new processor. You'll also see a MAJOR improvement in ArmA2 if you put that sucker on a solid-state drive. In fact, for pure ArmA2 performance, an SSD (plus 4GB more RAM) would be your most cost-effective measure.
Again, I'll stress that with the ArmA engine, your CPU carries a much larger and far more important burden than your GPU compared to other modern shooters.

[Spooky Lynx]

no, it was "shoping cart" in webshop, so it was saved position in virtual cart, i was waiting for premiere of 8 with natural hope that after it i will buy whole PC cheaper cause price of 7 should go down, instead of this i see this +170 PLN surprise, so is it the same in other countries ?
after premiere of Vista prices of XP went down, after premiere of 7 prices of Vista went down, but here ???
Well, I suppose it was either error of website admin (wrong pricetag, got +30% instead of -30%) or mental disease of that company's managers.

[vilas]

nope sir :]
it is in whole PL shops:
http://www.skapiec.pl/site/cat/3006/comp/684684
it was for 530-540 PLN before premiere of Windows 8, seems that people so hate Windows 8 that Windows 7 is now top-sale,
probably lack of "start menu" made it so, cause Win 8 looks like tablet-dedicated system,
for me ... personally i love XP for "search" menu, which is not like this in 7, my mother has laptop with 7, i don't like searching files under 7, in XP it was much much better

[Spooky Lynx]

Oh... I don't see any logical expaination of it. Especially if the sales and support of Win7 aren't aborted with starting the sales of Win8, no matter of how many people hate the latter:) You can just stay on your Win7 instead of buying new OS. Seems like mass mental disease stroke all Polish shop sales managers...

[Kyle_K_ski]

Xeno436 wrote:

Again, you only see improvement from Xfire/SLi in the upper-range settings. Unless you're already able to somewhat acceptably run all your games—and games that will soon come out—at max settings, I don't think you'll see much improvement. If you want to future-proof your system for ArmA3, you'd be better off waiting until more information on the requirements come out and getting a completely new graphics card to match it.

Sounds like I should skip the graphics card for now, and that my best investment is in simply more RAM.

You made it sound like it would be ideal for ALL of the RAM to be of the same quantity - is there a reason for that?

What are the downsides if I purchase 8GB in RAM (x2 sticks of 4GB) and add that to the x2 sticks of 2GB RAM (for a total of 12GB) versus adding x2 more sticks of 2GB (for a total of 8GB)?

Do my x2 sticks of 2GB reduce the effectiveness of the x2 sticks of 4GB, or...?

Thanks again for your patience and advice! :)

[Xeno426]

Sounds like I should skip the graphics card for now, and that my best investment is in simply more RAM.
That and and SSD. Seriously, I can't stress this enough. ArmA2 rocks so much better on an SSD.


You made it sound like it would be ideal for ALL of the RAM to be of the same quantity - is there a reason for that?
It ensures all RAM chips have the same timing (latency). It will probably still run, but they will all operate at the slowest speed and you may have some other issues.


What are the downsides if I purchase 8GB in RAM (x2 sticks of 4GB) and add that to the x2 sticks of 2GB RAM (for a total of 12GB) versus adding x2 more sticks of 2GB (for a total of 8GB)?
Do my x2 sticks of 2GB reduce the effectiveness of the x2 sticks of 4GB, or...?
You'll be running at the slowest RAM speed you have if you mix. Check this thread (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/270753-30-mixing-latency-size) for a better explanation.

[Kyle_K_ski]

First, let me state again how EXTREMELY grateful I am for all of the generous help I'm receiving here.

I'm pretty sure that I'm near the "ultimate decision point" in regards to what I'm going to purchase in regards to upgrading my system.

Just in case it's needed, here are the specs to the motherboard I have installed: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157198

Money's tight for my family right now, so I can't treat myself with as big an annual reward as I used to. That said, here's what I'm looking at...

OCZ Vertex 4 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227791 I'm a bit nervous at the number of the negative reviews found at Newegg, but Amazon.com has fewer negatives listed (that said, Amazon's been known "fluff" products to be more positive than they really are, so...). I compared the OCZ Vertex 4 to this comparable Samsung one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147188 which tends to have a better rating in terms of not failing, BUT there are also far fewer ratings given to it than those written for the OCZ. Right now, especially with its 5 year warranty, I'm leaning quite heavily on purchasing the OCZ Vertex 4.

If I do go this route, is there a (hopefully free) data migration program that you would advise using? I've looked into some of them, but honestly, it's a bit bewildering which one would be better than another.

And in regards to RAM, I'm looking at getting the very nicely priced G.SKILL Ares Series http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231560&cm_mmc=BlkFri2012-_-147-_-N82E16820231560-_-na&nm_mc=BlkFri2012 . It's gotten near-flawless reviews. What I like about it, is that if I purchase the set of x2 8GB sticks, that'll leave my other slots open for further expansion. I intend on removing my old RAM altogether, and just using the new RAM. My only concern in regards to it are some of its details, which don't seem to exactly match my motherboard's specifications. For example, the Memory Standards for my ASRock 870 are:
DDR3 1800(OC)/1600(OC)/1333/1066/800

but the G.SKILL RAM is stated to be DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)

I've already got my motherboard set to OC the RAM I do have to 1600, and the manufacturer's documentation states that it can handle up to 1800, so what's likely to happen if the G.SKILL RAM is beyond that, at 1866? Is it a serious issue if in my BIOS settings I set it to 1600, or 1800?

Also, what's the significance of the (PC3 14900) figure? Is this compatible with my motherboard, or...?

If there's anything else that you think would be useful for me to know, please don't hesitate to inform me. Again, thank you for your generous patience in educating me! :)

[segaprophet]

Hey, I'm a lifelong Mac user (since 1993), and I'm trying my hand at building my first gaming PC, principally for playing ARMA 2/3. I love my Mac but it's really frustrating at times to not easily be able to play awesome games like ARMA (my 2011 iMac couldn't keep up even in Boot Camp because Apple won't put a halfway decent GPU in anything :( ). So now I'll have the best of both worlds.

I just put in my order at Newegg and I wanted to get everyone's feedback on the parts I went with, specifically if they'll be adequate for high settings with ARMA 2 and ARMA 3 once it arrives. Keep in mind I was trying to keep the total build under $1000. Tell me what you think -

CPU - Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8Ghz Turbo) - $219.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504

GPU - MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC Radeon HD 7950 3GB PCI Express 3.0 x16 CrossFireX Support - $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127667

RAM - SAMSUNG 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 SDRAM Model MV-3V4G3D/US - $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147096

MOBO - Intel DZ77BH55K LGA 1155 Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard - $169.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-121-606

PSU - SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply - $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151087

CPU HEATSINK - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" 120mm CPU Cooler - $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

HDD - A used Western Digital 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM SATA2 HDD I pulled out of one of my Mac projects

ODD - Sony Optiarc 24X DVD Burner, Bulk Package 24X DVD+/-R Black SATA Model AD-7280S-0B - OEM - $18.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118067

CASE - Corsair Carbide Series 300R - $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139011

OS - Windows 7 Ultimate SP1, which I already own

----------

Total cost after shipping - $986.55

[vilas]

i am sorry for offtopic, Segaprophet, i took your parts and your prices, compared in in cheapest web-store in my country :


CPU - Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8Ghz Turbo) - $219.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116504

GPU - MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC Radeon HD 7950 3GB PCI Express 3.0 x16 CrossFireX Support - $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127667

MOBO - Intel DZ77BH55K LGA 1155 Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard - $169.99

thats 710 USD you need,
i need:


Procesor Intel Core i5-3570K, 3.4GHz, 6MB, LGA1155, 22mm, 77W, BOX (BX80637I53570K) 899,00 899,00 Usuń
2 454746 Karta graficzna MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC 1254,01 1254,01 Usuń
3 473831 Płyta główna Intel LGA 1155 Z77 (VGA DZ LAN) ATX BOXDZ77BH55K 669,01 669,01 Usuń
Suma 2822,02
2822 PLN / 3.21 (USD exchange rate) = 880 USD
nice
880 USD in cheapest shop in my country (in other classic not web-shops it could be 1000 USD) vs 710 USD, 23% difference in price probably VAT tax in EU, "nice"FPDR

sorry for offtopic

[Leon86]

I'd get an asus or gigabyte motherboard instead of an intel one segaprophet. They've got more power circuits on the boards of that price catagory allowing for safe overclocking.

rest of the build looks good. Amazing deal on that psu by the way.

[Kyle_K_ski]

My wife just informed me that we're quickly running out of time on our Norton subscriptions. Buying new anti-virus and anti-malware programs is going to take a sizable bite out of my potential pool to upgrade my computer's hardware.

I've heard of some free anti-virus/anti-malware programs, but to say that I'm more than a little nervous about using these is an understatement.

Do any of you have experience with these, and if so, are there programs out there that you would swear by, and, of course swear against?

I'd like a list of both suggestions, "You MUST use this...!" and "NEVER use that...!"

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Derbysieger]

yeah 100 bucks for that psu is incredibly good. I would argue that you don't need 750W for that build but at that price it really doesn't matter^^

[Xeno426]

OCZ Vertex 4 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227791 I'm a bit nervous at the number of the negative reviews found at Newegg, but Amazon.com has fewer negatives listed (that said, Amazon's been known "fluff" products to be more positive than they really are, so...). I compared the OCZ Vertex 4 to this comparable Samsung one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147188 which tends to have a better rating in terms of not failing, BUT there are also far fewer ratings given to it than those written for the OCZ. Right now, especially with its 5 year warranty, I'm leaning quite heavily on purchasing the OCZ Vertex 4.
With a warranty that long, I'd consider putting down money for it. Just be sure to have backups of your stuff on a different media, like burning them to DVD's.


If I do go this route, is there a (hopefully free) data migration program that you would advise using? I've looked into some of them, but honestly, it's a bit bewildering which one would be better than another.
To be honest, I've always done my data migration manually. That is, back everything I want saved up on a different drive, install my new stuff, and start plopping all the saved stuff back in place and adjusting the settings in my (fresh) install of Windows. It's more time consuming and requires you to know where lots of various files are saved, but I've never lost anything important—though I have forgotten to back up a few "nice to have but not necessary" things like custom Windows themes.


And in regards to RAM, I'm looking at getting the very nicely priced G.SKILL Ares Series http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231560&cm_mmc=BlkFri2012-_-147-_-N82E16820231560-_-na&nm_mc=BlkFri2012 . It's gotten near-flawless reviews. What I like about it, is that if I purchase the set of x2 8GB sticks, that'll leave my other slots open for further expansion. I intend on removing my old RAM altogether, and just using the new RAM. My only concern in regards to it are some of its details, which don't seem to exactly match my motherboard's specifications. For example, the Memory Standards for my ASRock 870 are:
DDR3 1800(OC)/1600(OC)/1333/1066/800

but the G.SKILL RAM is stated to be DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)

I've already got my motherboard set to OC the RAM I do have to 1600, and the manufacturer's documentation states that it can handle up to 1800, so what's likely to happen if the G.SKILL RAM is beyond that, at 1866? Is it a serious issue if in my BIOS settings I set it to 1600, or 1800?

Also, what's the significance of the (PC3 14900) figure? Is this compatible with my motherboard, or...?
Check the QVL (Qualified Vendors List) for your motherboard (most up-to-date one is here (http://www.asrock.com/MB/overview.asp?cat=Memory&Model=Z77%20Extreme3)). If that one isn't on there, I'd consider finding a different RAM set. My instincts tell me that it won't work because the clock speed on the RAM you are looking at is higher than what your motherboard allows. At best, it will run at the slower clock speed. Worst, it won't run at all. Really bad, it will damage the system. A glance through that QVL list does not show your RAM choice, so I would highly suggest looking for something else.
DDR3 1600 is generally cheaper anyway, and it's not likely you'll see any difference between that and DDR3 1866 RAM (assuming you could run RAM of that speed).
I'm not entirely sure what the PC numbers mean, though I've asked a friend who is more knowledgeable on this than I and will update when I get a response.


I've heard of some free anti-virus/anti-malware programs, but to say that I'm more than a little nervous about using these is an understatement.

I'd like a list of both suggestions, "You MUST use this...!" and "NEVER use that...!"
I've used Avast! for years without issue. AVG has some annoying browser plugins that are essentially malware, given how incredibly difficult they are to remove (as discussed here (http://nojesusnopeas.blogspot.com/2012/08/sorry-but-avg-secure-search-is-malware.html)). The issue may be resolved now, but it still leaves me a bit wary of them. Those are the only two freeware anti-virus programs I'm really familiar with.
As for other malware, Ad-Aware and Spybot S&D are both very good (the latter I tend to use more). I haven't used Ad-Aware in a few years, so my feelings about them may be out of date, especially since a quick glance at their website shows they've moved into anti-virus protection as well. Spybot is still focused on general spyware and similar malware, and I still use it.

[Kyle_K_ski]

so I would highly suggest looking for something else.

Doing so now. Boy, am I happy that I posted here to get your reply BEFORE I purchased the RAM. Whew!

What are the advantages of going with x4 4GB in RAM, versus having x2 8GB in RAM? Does the RAM run cooler with 4 sticks versus 2? Which would be more energy efficient? Less stressful on the CPU? Etc., ect. ...?

---------- Post added at 15:45 ---------- Previous post was at 15:22 ----------

Looking through the 8GB RAM. Most are out of my price range. I found this x2 16GB one though http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231489&Tpk=16GB%20%282%20x%208GB%29%20240-Pin%20DDR3%20SDRAM%20DDR3%201600%20%28PC3%201 , with a lifetime guarantee, but it's not on ASRock's official compatibility list.

And I found this x2 4GB (I'd buy two sets of these for 16GB total) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314, but it too is not on ASRock's compatibility list.

Does that mean that they "for sure" won't work at all, or that they WILL have issues, or...?

I've checked into almost 3 dozens' worth of the "officially checked" RAM that ASRock lists on their site, and most of the time people are still having issues with that RAM (and usually at a higher cost to the RAM that I'm finding when I'm just doing a RAM search using the specs), so how religiously should one follow that list's recommendations?

This

is

so

frustrating...

[vilas]

you asked for antivir, i use German Freeware Avira (red umbrella), it is freeware, it is CPU light, Norton and McAfee are CPU eating,
and i am visiting not safe pages too, so this is effective

[Kyle_K_ski]

Hey vilas! It's been a while since I last saw one of your posts. Thanks for your input.

I'm a little confused by this portion of what you wrote me:
and i am visiting not safe pages too


I've had my old XP system badly infected twice. The first time, I don't know how it happened. The second time was from my wife browsing a site featuring/selling Disney products (I kid you not). That was the first time that I learned that virus/worms can inbed themselves into links that people click on.

Are there certain sites that are "high traffic" for virus placement, and if so, what types of sites are they?

[Kyle_K_ski]

Alright, my choice has been made...

16GB' worth of G.SKILL Ripsaw RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231429

I triple-checked on ASRock's listings. My eyes have been crossing like crazy with checking this stuff out. If a person's off by even 1 character, one's going to be getting a different product (and one most likely not listed as being "verified").

I'm going to wait on getting a SSD. From the articles that I read, the 4th generation is just around the corner. They'll be cheaper, and even more importantly, have a longer lifespan (this worries me a bit in regards to what's currently available).

[Cards525]

Allo all. I've recently taken up the project of building myself a new computer. Before I go into some rant about how I want everything to be perfect, I want outside opinion. Is this a good build and does anyone have any suggestions to add onto?

-Be advised, the card will be a 8000 series. AMD is supposedly releasing the series in Quarter 1 of 2013. The 7970's just a placeholder.

I plan on doing high-grade video recording and editing, as well as ARMA of course you sillys :) Price has to be below 2500 or near it, I work hard but not that hard. I want to try to keep the Case and the Keyboard/Mouse, but if theres a clear, better winner I'll take it
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?fe9yypunzd2su7b

[Xeno426]

Alright, my choice has been made...

16GB' worth of G.SKILL Ripsaw RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231429
Keep in mind your motherboard can hold a MAX of 16GB or RAM, so that's probably a good choice. 2x8GB sticks would prevent you from ever using the other two RAM slots, and 2x16GB sticks probably wouldn't even work.
Keep in mind the QVL is a list of RAM that will work in your system, not what will only work.


-Be advised, the card will be a 8000 series. AMD is supposedly releasing the series in Quarter 1 of 2013. The 7970's just a placeholder.
I have been thoroughly unimpressed with AMD's GPU driver support in the last few years, and unless that changes I'd suggest moving to nVidia.

[vilas]

I'm a little confused by this portion of what you wrote me:
it is because as non-native speaker sometimes i still use Polish grammar to English words, you know... Globish ;)
in English grammar it should sound : and i am also visiting not-safe pages as well as safe pages, so Avira is effective
just like in proper English "too" would suggest you are visiting "you too", right ? for me (you know English is not my native) "too" means "as well" "also" etc.
it is another false-friend word (most dangerous false-friend is "pathetic" cause it has oposite meaning in Slavic languages and once upon a time i used it about one RHS thing, but i meant "monumental job" )
now i will try to remember not to use "too" in terms of "as well, also" ;)

from time to time Avira stops some virus from such page so i think it is good, in other PC in my office i have McAfee, it kills CPU and once upon a time i ... catched virus and i cleaned it ... instaling Avira ;)
McAfee (payware) was not as effective and not able to clean file, but freeware Avira done it,
when i scanned my office PC with Avira it found few trojans, which McAfee was not reacting at all

[Spooky Lynx]

Does anybody know any freeware firewall? Or does Avira or avast have it built-in?