I remember.

[Dajunka]

These classic games were the very highest in entertainment, unfortunately with the birth of very powerful computers came the death of such games.

One of my favorite games from the past was called Lords of midnight, a fantastic game that gave me endless enjoyment. Lords of midnight was rewritten for the PC, the result was a absolutely abortion of the original game.

Call me a doom merchant but I can only see the same sort of thing happening with this new version of Carrier command, the programmers always have to go to far and mess things up. For one, if this version of Carrier command has troops and pilots etc: It will not be a remake of Carrier Command it will just be yet another version of Command and conquer.

The feeling that you alone were controlling everything from the bridge of that carrier was one of the magic ingredients of this game.

I still hope beyond hope that this game is true to the original.

[richiespeed13]

BIS won't screw this up :)

You should take a look at the Arma 2 forums, and see bohemia's heratage and involvement with the community.

They are one of the best developers out there, and always strive to make the best game that the community wants, not what their wallet wants.

If you have a good pc and like combat sims, you should try Arma 2 :)

[dialektiikka]

In previous interviews Marek Španěl & co, the powers that be in BIS, have stated that the original Carrier Command prompted them to start work on OFP.

These guys are Carrier Command fans themselves. I don't think they'll let us down after going to the trouble of getting hold of CC rights. And if they do... we can allways mod it to our liking ;)

[Intezar]

This is a huge title. I have plenty of memories from the old Carrier Command. ARMA/ARMA2 and such games are filled with bugs and seem to lack play-testing. One of my greatest concerns is that this game, although with great graphics and ideas, will turn out broken.

Do not let us down please. Take your time developing the game.

[Dajunka]

But they seem to be holding to the idea of having troops, just this fact alone would destroy the entire concept of the original Carrier command, it simply would not be Carrier command more a game loosely based on Carrier command.

[Intezar]

The crew of the carrier only supposedly has a skeleton guard of human troopers among them. Therefore most of the troops used in combat, if not all of them, are combat droids. If they too can be 'controlled from the bridge' like the vehicles in the classic game, they'll safely be able to integrate that into the game without ruining the Carrier Command experience.

[Dajunka]

The crew of the carrier only supposedly has a skeleton guard of human troopers among them. Therefore most of the troops used in combat, if not all of them, are combat droids. If they too can be 'controlled from the bridge' like the vehicles in the classic game, they'll safely be able to integrate that into the game without ruining the Carrier Command experience.


Okay, but why do they want to put stupid droids into the game when they wasn't in the original, if it isn't broken why are they trying to fix it.

I have yet to see a remake done well, they always have to ruin it by adding extra silly bits that are not wanted nor needed.

[GepardenK]

Okay, but why do they want to put stupid droids into the game when they wasn't in the original, if it isn't broken why are they trying to fix it.

I have yet to see a remake done well, they always have to ruin it by adding extra silly bits that are not wanted nor needed.
The droids are deployed in squads from the walrus and have a limited lifespan before their batteries die out. It is the droids who have to enter the enemy islands command center to deploy the control virus.
IMO this makes the game more tactical in a way the original never was. That is a good thing.

You have to understand that a "remake" is never an attempt to make the same game as the original (That would be stupid because the original already is the same game as the original). A remake is supposed to make a NEW game based on the core ideas of the original.

I agree with you that a lot of remakes these days go in the wrong direction (fallout 3, Bards tale etc). But please, put some faith is Bohemia Interactive. They have been known to produce very good open ended games (just like the original CarrierCommand was), and they are NOT a sellout company that works for EA and the like. What I’m saying is that this might actually turn out to be a very good remake:)
Only thing you have to watch out for is a fare share of bugs in the beginning. But they will be patched out after a while.

[DMarkwick]

But they seem to be holding to the idea of having troops, just this fact alone would destroy the entire concept of the original Carrier command, it simply would not be Carrier command more a game loosely based on Carrier command.


Okay, but why do they want to put stupid droids into the game when they wasn't in the original, if it isn't broken why are they trying to fix it.

C'mon guy, man up. Texture mapping was also not in the original. Weather was also not in the original. Worrying about stuff you've heard about that wasn't in the original is kind of a waste of effort here. If all you want is stuff that was in the original, well, you know. Play the original. I believe you can get it running on modern PCs still.

Personally, I wouldn't play the game if it was exactly like the original. It was fine in its day, and remains one of my fond memories, but really, PCs can make much more of this game now. Evolve.

[Dajunka]

Nothing is certain, and as you say these droids may enhance the game rather than ruin it.
I am just stating my fears that have been realized in many previous remakes of games.

I think we are all looking forward to playing it as well as wanting it to be as brilliant as the original, we will just have to wait and see.

[EDcase]

I loved the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF9sZUv23yM) but I think there is lots of potential for BIS to improve the gameplay without damaging the concept.

I sure don't want exactly the same game again. That would be pointless. If you want to play the original just get an emulator...

[Celery]

But they seem to be holding to the idea of having troops, just this fact alone would destroy the entire concept of the original Carrier command, it simply would not be Carrier command more a game loosely based on Carrier command.


Okay, but why do they want to put stupid droids into the game when they wasn't in the original, if it isn't broken why are they trying to fix it.

I have yet to see a remake done well, they always have to ruin it by adding extra silly bits that are not wanted nor needed.

To put it bluntly, some of the things you hold as the defining features of Carrier Command are simply limitations of the original game and the hardware it uses. By today's standards only the general idea of the game is something worth recycling.

[gadgetmind]

I totally agree. The only approach is to use the name of the game and key "characters", take the key concepts and feel, and then create the best game you can, which involves getting creative and introducing new ideas.

There were a lot of compromises in the original, some imposed by the *massive* memory and speed limitations of the machines of the day, but also by the fact that we were two guys doing *everything* by hand in assembler.

We wanted troops! It was in the original "brainstorming" session, but we quite simply couldn't do it, no way.

All the signs are that Gaea Mission will be the game that we would have created without all of these limitations, and I can't wait to play it.

Ian

[BFCrusader]

Gadgetmind, are you one of the two original programmers of the old, classic Carrier Command?

If you are, I have to say you made an awesome game, especially considering the fact there were such great limitations back then. Like many of us here, I have fond memories of playing this game at a young age and appreciating its complexity and, back then, immerse gameplay. Ingenious! Thanks for creating it.

I'm curious to know what you do nowadays, if you don't mind me asking?

[gadgetmind]

Yes, Ian Oliver, and Graeme Baird was the other guy. Though Andy Onions was also part of the company, he was on other projects, but then did the Z80 conversions of CC, which was quite an achievement!

Glad you liked Carrier. I actually feel that we didn't really get it right until the PC and Mac versions. We were just so late finishing the ST and Amiga ones that we had to release or starve to death! It was our first project on 16-bit machines and we bit off far too much.

Personally I tailed off writing games during the 90s (last one was a conversion of Abrams Battle Tank to the Sega Genesis) as we started another company producing development tools for games programmers. In 1994 that company was acquired by Sega, and I then spent many years working on Dreamcast tools. I actually had a one-to-one lunch meeting with Hideki Sato on the day that the death of the Dreamcast was announced. <sniff>

In 2001, my tools team was acquired by Imagination Technologies, so now I'm involved with all of our cool semiconductor tech that goes into smartphones, TVs, and the like. Happy days, but it's a shame I never got a chance to port Carrier to the Dreamcast. :-)

I don't know much more about Gaea Mission than has been publicly shown here, and even if I did couldn't discuss it, but work-in-progress certainly pushes my buttons visually, and Bohemia always do a good job with game play.

Ian

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 AM ----------

Ah, sorry, I should have said. Graeme Baird is still in game development - http://www.sixbynine.co.uk/ (if the link doesn't work, search for sixbynine)

Andy Onions, well he was in the news a while ago, but it was all very odd!

Ian

[BFCrusader]

Cool, you worked on the Dreamcast. Sad day indeed when it was discontinued. Say, do you still own a copy of CC and even play it every once in a while? :P

I know if I made a game, especially if it took great work to complete it, I would make sure that I always had one myself.

I know of the PC version (playable through DOSbox) and I like the "Timewarp" feature, however the game is missing many sounds and this makes the game less attractive. For example when firing lasers I hear something which is more of a distorted sound than anything laser-ish. And the Walruses and Mantas don't give any engine sound, period.

I'd seriously like to find out where I can get a copy I can play with full sound AND the timewarp. Oh and if anyone knows how to record in-game videos so I can make youtube videos of the game that would be great.

[dragonbeast]

As everyone else here on the forms i'm a big fan of the old carrier command and spend many days kamikaze flying my malta's in enemies control centres :).

Its a honour to have you on the forms gadgetmind and thanks for this great game.

[W0lle]

Ian, nice to have you here with us. I also still remember the original (played it on both Amiga and PC) and although this "future stuff" is not really my thing anymore I'm really looking forward to play "your" game again. :)

[gadgetmind]

Over the years, I have occasionally fired up Carrier Command, and I'm still proud of what we achieved given the obstacles that faced us, but even in its day there were flaws.

The lack of time warp on the ST/Amiga is something I deeply regret: we had most of the code ready to go, and pushed hard to include it, but Rainbird said 'no' as they couldn't wait even one more day and the manuals had already been printed without that button.

The dire sound on the PC version was just the nature of the beast. Sound cards were still a few years off (other than high-end Roland effects cards) so we just had the PC speaker, you know, the one that goes beep at boot time. What sound there is came at great cost, both in programming effort and CPU time - when something is exploding 10-20% of the cycles go into that crappy crackling!

I'm sure someone could easily retrofit some modern sound to the game. It would be a few weeks work with an x86 disassembler, but people do far more crazy things! Would I do it? No, sorry, it would be too easy to while away my hours looking backwards. I think it's natural that we occasionally do that for inspiration, but that's all it should be and we can't let it turn into a straight-jacket.

As for the Dreamcast, well that's another topic where I could get weepy over a whisky: it was far ahead of its time, and deserved to succeed, but that's not how business works. Sony and Microsoft had far deeper pockets and had a cut-throat attitude that meant they could and did exploit any small mistake that we made, and we made a few.

But they were great days, particularly all the deep under-cover design work that we did long long before it got that inexcusable name and hit the shelves. I was heavily involved with the SH4 CPU, particularly anything to do with debug and performance analysis, and I'm proud to say that games developers actually praised the quality of the development environment. That had never happened before as they/we tend to be part programmer and part prima donna, so are hard to please and even harder to impress.

Ashes are nothing without a Phoenix, and that's where Imagination Technologies comes into it. IMG designed the 3D technology for the Dreamcast, which interacted *very* closed with the SH4 (they were designed alongside each other), so Sega, Hitachi, NEC and IMG all worked alongside each other. When Sega hit hard times, IMG snapped up me and my team, and it's all worked out *really* well.

So, when you play with your fancy new smart 'phone, there's a strong chance that its graphics technology is built on the legacy of the Dreamcast. Similarly, the new Carrier Command game will be built on the legacy of the one that we created in the late 80's, but the best way for it to be true to the original is for it to inspire but not constrain those programmers (and prima donnas!) who are working on it, and for them to take the idea and run with it in exciting and (yes!) new directions.

Ian

[scrapser]

I loved playing Carrier Command and can still play it on my Amiga Forever emulator. I look forward to Bohemia's offering.

There were other games back in the day that I enjoyed. One was like a 3D virtual board game but still a lot of fun. It was called, "The Sentinel" and required you to teleport around the map absorbing objects for their energy to gain enough height to defeat the Sentinel while at the same time avoiding its gaze. Also, the game "Virus" (third-person shooter involving a little hovering ship that flew around the map trying to stop the virus from spreading) which was remade for the PC but as far as I know it never made it to the US. Both of these games would be a lot of fun today.

[gadgetmind]

Interesting you mention those two as both were Firebird/Rainbird.

I got sneak previews of both and might have upset Geoff with some of my comments on The Sentinel. It was obviously me who was in the wrong as it got good reviews and had a lot of fans.

As for Virus, I really liked the graphics (I saw it first on an Archimedes when it was called Zarch) and the landscapes, but it didn't seem to have the depth of (say) Elite.

I speculated that perhaps Braben and Crammond had swapped brains during development of the two games.

BTW, we did the first PC port of Elite and got to talk through the Acorn source code with Bell and Braben - interesting, in oh so many ways.

Ian

[FoxTwo]

Ian,

I've visited this forum several times but never bothered registering. That is until I saw your post. It's certainly great to hear from one of the two original developers of Carrier Command. I can't tell you how many hours I enjoyed the game on the Amiga.

In my opinion, Carrier Command was one of the most advanced games of it's time. The cutting-edge graphics are often lauded as the element setting this game apart from the rest. However, I've always felt it was the combination of Real Time Strategy and Vehicle Simulation that made the game so great. There has been many attempts to do the same, but few games seem to have found the right balance between the two genres that you managed to carefully stitch together.

Thank you for pushing the limits on technology, imagination, and inspiration. You created a truly AMAZING application that will always stand as one of the all-time greats! My hat is off to you.

Very Respectfully,
Ryan

[gadgetmind]

Wow, Ryan, you're really making me blush! That praise was so lavish that I was forced to show it to my wife and daughter, but I don't think they believed a word of it. :-)

Regards later attempts to repeat the success of Carrier failing, well we failed ourselves with Battle Command. I'm not sure what went wrong. Maybe it was that we'd employed more people and had them working on it rather than doing it all ourselves, maybe our vision for the final product wasn't clear and correct, or maybe its something else entirely. Dunno.

Ian

[quiet_man]

Regards later attempts to repeat the success of Carrier failing, well we failed ourselves with Battle Command. I'm not sure what went wrong. Maybe it was that we'd employed more people and had them working on it rather than doing it all ourselves, maybe our vision for the final product wasn't clear and correct, or maybe its something else entirely. Dunno.

Hello Ian,
I'm also belonging to the carrier command (senior) fan club :p
I know the problem going from "doing it yourself" to the "tell other people". I think it is not limited but major in the IT business where work products are quite "flexible". That's why some manager revert back to "financials" and let external consultants do the other stuff.
Sorry if I sound sad, but I have my own experience there :rolleyes:

CC is still my all time favorite bedside X-Com (and Armed Assault of course :p ). CC gave the "you are in the middle of something going on" feeling while having lots of options what to do and how influence things.

Which you the best for your current work and thank you again for such a great game.

QuietMan

[Alex72]

Nice to see you here Ian. :)

Same here, senior CC fan, and even though you speak of shortcomings in the original title due to limited tech it was nothing you as a fan noticed. At least i didnt. I swallowed that game hook line sinker and enjoyed every second of it. Superb game that will be very nice to experience again thanks to Bohemia.

Like W0lle im not a sci-fi nut per se, but like music to me these days a good tune is a good tune no matter what genre, and so far BIS hasnt let me down so there will definately be a Gaea CC title in my shelf soon enough.

Thanks Ian for bringing tons of fun to my teenage years. ;)

Regards
Alex

[BoneBoys]

Ian,
Senior here as well.

Back in the late 80's my son was tugging on my shirt tails saying "Dad, dad, I want a computer". He got a Atari 500(s)?
Well, I'm still here.
CC and F18 Interceptor were my downfall.

Pleased to have met you and thanks...

[BFCrusader]

Like W0lle im not a sci-fi nut per se, but like music to me these days a good tune is a good tune no matter what genre, and so far BIS hasnt let me down so there will definately be a Gaea CC title in my shelf soon enough.

That made me think of 2 things.

1. Ian, was there any thought to bring music to the CC game? I know there was supposed to be a version which did, but my Atari ST didn't have anything but sound effects.

2. I wonder what BI's approach to music will be for CC:GM

[Celery]

The Carrier Command theme music is awesome in that 80s way. :p
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MUYKauCcutw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MUYKauCcutw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[BFCrusader]

Aha, that's what I remembered. Good show.

But I would like to know if there was any planning to include in-game music.

Also, why's the carrier and Manta's image design here so different than in the game?

[Celery]

Also, why's the carrier and Manta's image design here so different than in the game?

The same reason why none of the box art matched the content at the time: no clue.

[gadgetmind]

The Carrier theme and box design were organised entirely by Rainbird. I did speak to David Lowe about the music, and while we had a pleasant chat, my head was full of bits while his was crammed with beats and beeps, so it wasn't very productive. I've forgotten who did the artwork, but I quite liked it!

I guess we never did much with in-game music as none of the three of us were ever very musical, nor tremendously artistic; I drew all the icons for CC's user interface, and I think it shows!

Ian

[sav112g]

The Carrier theme and box design were organised entirely by Rainbird. I did speak to David Lowe about the music, and while we had a pleasant chat, my head was full of bits while his was crammed with beats and beeps, so it wasn't very productive. I've forgotten who did the artwork, but I quite liked it!

I guess we never did much with in-game music as none of the three of us were ever very musical, nor tremendously artistic; I drew all the icons for CC's user interface, and I think it shows!

Ian

Yan you did the original game?

If so well done still got it here in the box, one of my fav games.

Not played it in over 20 years probably but cant remember could you actually fight the other carrier in the end? :j:

[gadgetmind]

Yes, you got to fight the enemy carrier. If you're not around when the enemy carrier is attacking an island, the "fighting" is all done with a model of the situation and the computer equivalent of the twenty-sided dice from Dungeons and Dragons. When you are around, everything has to be done differently, and the enemy carrier needs to drive around 'intelligently' and fight in a 3D world.

These were the last bits to be done, we were so far behind the contract that the money had run out months ago, and we were totally burnt out. This is my excuse for the nasty habit the enemy carrier had of driving into the islands in the first ST release! New disks were sent to those who complained.

Ian

[sav112g]

Hats off to you it was still great. I would say in my Top five games of all time.

Elite (BBC Model B)
Original sim city
Command and Conquer
Original Champ Manager
Carrier Command

have you anything to do with this new game? Hope the spirit of the game is still there on the new one. Hope they do a Damage model and you need to fight to keep your ship working I always love stuff like that.

[gadgetmind]

I have absolutely zero to do with the new game, and as I haven't really kept up with gaming over the last few years, that's probably all for the best!

Ian

[BFCrusader]

Lol, you ought to be invited to see what and how they're doing in the sequel, which is your legacy in Carrier Command. Although I can understand if you'd rather be surprised.

At least you should be an honorary developer, all I'm saying

[FoxTwo]

Ian,

The user interface you designed was well laid out. The icons themselves were primitive, but clear in purpose. The game followed the rules of good user-interface design still in use today.

If you could turn back the hands of time, what would you modify on the Carrier Command interface?

Very Respectfully,
Ryan

[gadgetmind]

I don't think I'd change much on the user interface, but was always aware that my artistic skills were (and are still) somewhat limited. However, so was storage space: we had to compress those icons using a number of fancy tricks to fit on the disk(s) so there is a chance that prettying them up would have meant they wouldn't fit.
Ian

[Von_Paulus]

Carrier Command is one of the best computer games I've ever played.
It belongs to any TOP 20 best computer games.
I'm hopeful and confident that BIS will honor the legacy game.

Ian, I'm glad to see you in this forums. Thanks for having created CC.
A salute to all retro gamers here.

[ajfarrell]

Hi Ian, I join fellow CC veterns and salute you for a turely emersive and enjoyable game that time just stopped when playing! I noticed that if the carrier was reversed into a corner of an Island, the buildings could be blasted from the cannon - was this a purpose made cheat (and does the enemy carrier do this or is there simply a time period related to the enemy carrier once it enters landing range of an Island)? I'm kinda sorry I found it as it made the game allot easier than sending in the air attacks! I wasn't aware the PC version had a time warp, whats the significance of it? I had an ST and CC was the best game by far in my collection (and still is most memorable game to date, in fact just recieved an original PC version from ebay with tape, but 5.25" discs!), fond memories, thanks!

Anthony

[gadgetmind]

I loved that cannon. :-) Yes, you could blast like that, but it put you in range of the islands defenses if it was advanced enough.

The time warp removed the delay when moving between islands. On the map screen, you set a destination for your carrier, pressed the warp button, and everything went like stink as long as you kept it pressed! We just ran the stochastic game play with no 3D, and did simple navigation to get your carrier past islands; it worked well.

Ian

[BFCrusader]

Also of note is a glitch I found out when playing the game. It's when you resupply your carrier.

All items that are classified as payloads, i.e. missiles, mountable lasers, bombs and devices as well as the carrier's protective drones (the ones that go into a formation of your choice to defend against anti-ship missiles) could be overstocked if you load your vehicles to the maximum amount (if more than one is possible, otherwise just the one) of units of each type.

Then you call the resupply drone, stocked only with the items you've loaded/drones. When it's done, you can unmount all the payloads and dock the drones. Repeat as necessary with the items you didn't load during the first resupply run.

Voila! You have successfully overstocked and wont have to resupply for a greater while when it comes to these items.

Fuel and other items not classified as payloads, i.e. carrier launched rockets/flares, reserve Manta's and Walruses and the like are impossible to overstock, sadly :P

[gadgetmind]

Wow, nice find. You guys are massively more expert regards Carrier than I am: I'd even forgotten the supply drone, but that's maybe because Graeme coded those bits, hence the bugs. :-)
Ian

[BFCrusader]

Wow, nice find. You guys are massively more expert regards Carrier than I am: I'd even forgotten the supply drone, but that's maybe because Graeme coded those bits, hence the bugs. :-)
Ian

Hahahaha! :D Nice

Speaking of resupplying, I just remembered about this island which is very remote and the only way to get there was from the island which is the closest to it and your carrier has to get maximum fuel at the furthest reach of the resupply drone's range in order to make it all the way over there.

I'm curious as to why you made such an island, that is if you even remember way back then. :confused::p

[DMarkwick]

Hello Ian. If you're one of the original coders for Carrier Command then I feel I have to make a special effort and congratulate you on an iconic title that made people see the potentials in modern 3D games. When I first saw CC on a friend's Atari I was blown away, so naturally it became the top title for me to get as soon as I bought an Amiga.

Also a stroke of genius to have a rolling demo intro, I'm sure it generated many sales not only for the game but for the Amigas and Ataris that displayed it. I think it is more or less forgotten just how ahead of its time it really was, the power and features of a futuristic carrier in a virtual world made my mind spin, and each thing I learned about it made it more incredible. The decoy buoys. The rebuilding of lost vehicles. The incremental detail build-up of buildings being constructed on the islands. All these, and much more, working right out of the box (unheard of these days ;)) and available to ordinary folk right in their homes. It was a very long time before anything similar, or comparable, ever made it for release again on any platform short of modern PCs, if it ever even did.

I think it's a testament to its appeal that many people did sit through the long inter-island journeys, and did it without complaint. I rate CC as one of the best titles released, ever, on any platform.

Kindest regards

DMarkwick

[scrapser]

Wow, I didn't realize until now I was talking with one of the original developers of Carrier Command. Thanks for that game many times over. I was totally immersed by it back in the day. You mentioned Rainbird/Firebird and the game Elite. I know Braben developed Elite and Virus. He had a website up for a long time but I lost track of it.

Do you know if he left the game development industry? I was hoping for a modern version of Elite or Virus (wishful thinking I suppose).

Forgot to mention one time I was playing Carrier Command and arrived at an island, deployed my Walrus and was heading for the beach when lo and behold there was the enemy carrier sitting just on the other side of the part of the beach I was approaching. It very slowly rotated until it was pointing away from the island, then shot off out of sight as fast the the Starship Enterprise enters warp speed. It was really cool and I was never able to repeat the experience.

[Von_Paulus]

Do you know if he left the game development industry? I was hoping for a modern version of Elite or Virus (wishful thinking I suppose).

I've read a recent interview with David Braben in Retro Gamer, that he stated that Elite IV is still in development. The fact is that after been waiting it for so long, hearing here and there that the project was canceled, that I really don't know what to believe anymore. There are so many contradictory news.
It seems to be more an example of vaporware than anything. But hope is the last to die.
Maybe Ian (not Bell) knows something....

[gadgetmind]

I'm curious as to why you made such an island, that is if you even remember way back then. :confused::p

I have *no* idea. Maybe it was just to see if anyone was daft enough to actually go there. :-)

Ian

[BFCrusader]

Guilty as charged I suppose:p :D

Although I think I did it only when I've destroyed the enemy carrier, otherwise it would've just conquer 2-3 islands in my absence

[SiC-Disaster]

It sounds like you had to do a lot of work to get stuff done in the original CC.
I definitely like that. I'd hate to be done in under 30 minutes or whatever, because it makes me feel a lack of accomplishing anything, like it's all too easy, even if you get your ass kicked.
The slower certain processes are, the more rewarding they will be when you finally get them done (like colonize an island), you can actually feel a bit proud of finally establishing something.

[ajfarrell]

Hi again Ian, I'm currently looking at making a plastic model of the carrier and support craft, could you mail me drawings you used with approximate dimensions for the 3d models in the game? a diorama would be cool to get a real idea of what the carrier looked like :-D

[SiC-Disaster]

Is this game cancelled?

[sav112g]

Recently released standalone expansion pack to the leading PC military simulator Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead and DLC Arma 2: British Armed Forces will be followed by new titles in the near future:

Pound of Ground: crazy action game from a 3rd person view with tons of zombies.

Carrier Command: Gaea Mission, action game with strategic elements, based on the ground breaking classic.

Bohemia Interactive is also working on continuous support and new development of its award winning line up of military simulation games.

this was posted in there news a few days ago.

[Intezar]

We want Carrier Command! Will there be a beta test of some sort maybe? :) It is too quiet. I don't care if it is just a screenshot, I just want to hear more from the game.

[scrapser]

To keep yourself occupied while waiting for the remake, you can get a copy of Cloanto's AmigaForever (Amiga Emulator), download the original Carrier Command ADF (Amiga Disk File) game file, and play to your heart's content. It will cost you less then most games cost today and you will have an Amiga computer to play all the old games that made it so popular back in the 80's/90's.

[Placebo]

Is this game cancelled?

Absolutely not, still heavily being worked on which is pretty much why there just hasn't been time to take a breath, glance up from the smoking computers and release some new news/media! I know it sucks for you guys who're patiently waiting for info but I'm sure the wait will be worth it ;)

[SiC-Disaster]

Good to hear. My mate said he had seen a confirmation of cancellation for this game somewhere, but i hadnt seen it here so i was wondering what was up as he was very convinced he was right.
Cant wait for more footage and news :)

[MadDogX]

Good to hear. My mate said he had seen a confirmation of cancellation for this game somewhere, but i hadnt seen it here so i was wondering what was up as he was very convinced he was right.
Cant wait for more footage and news :)
A colleague of mine keeps trying to convince me that BIS is bankrupt and will be gone soon. Funny how they were recently able to buy a couple of other game studios... :D

Lesson learned: don't listen to self important doofuses who don't know what they're talking about. ;)

I just hope some more CC info will be released shortly, so we can see how the project is coming along. It already looked pretty awesome six months ago. :)

[Francois424]

Hello Gadjetmind/Ian,

I decided to (finally) make an account on this site, seeing that thread about you being one of the creators/coders of the Original Carrier Command of the Eithies.

I was no more than 13-15 years old when I first played your game, and in all honesty, it is amongst my top 3 of all times, all gaming platforms included. It has never *ever* been surpassed by *any* games I have played in the last 20 years.

I wanted to join my voice with the other to thank you very fondly for it. And what made it such a jewel for me was the total amount of freedom you had. Heck, you could shoot your own carrier, send mantas crashing into walruses, destroy your own islands and put another ACCB on it if you wanted to. You could have your vehicle run out of fuel on purpose, send them without weapons... man you could do EVERYTHING. And it was very challenging.

The enemy carrier had unfair advantages, and it was fine that way. Where you say it was a bug that it jumped on island, I find a very original thing... I mean a hovercraft carrier going as fast as the manta, that has walrus capabilities ? Man the Omega is advanced (not bugged, advanced ;) ). But we (players) have the juggernaut advantage... Our carrier is a steeled-Battleship, with lasers ! The Omega lacks them, muahaha. So much fun I had with that fact alone.

Another thing that was nice, and is completely lost in modern games : Slow-pace. Think about it: Set course to the next island and engage. ( I go make coffee, clean the house a bit... *DING* come back to the AtariST, play 5min to drop an ACCB, get back to cleaning). I mean really, I like games like that. Sure sometimes you want to warp thru, and yes it should be available, but that was fun nonetheless. Games now a days are too quick, too much action, not enough real-time-strategy that allows to spread the action.

Now there's that remake going. If it has the freedom, that would be cool. If it lacks it (read: railroad scenario thingie) then it'll be sourly missed.

So to wrap this up: Thank you very much for this incredible JEWEL of a game, of which I have yet to see a valid successor 20 years later.

I wish you well Ian,
-- Francois424

[gadgetmind]

Hi again Ian, I'm currently looking at making a plastic model of the carrier and support craft, could you mail me drawings you used with approximate dimensions for the 3d models in the game? a diorama would be cool to get a real idea of what the carrier looked like :-D

Sorry, missed this. We don't have any drawings and the shapes are bytecode driven rather than being simple coordinates.

Ian

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------



So to wrap this up: Thank you very much for this incredible JEWEL of a game, of which I have yet to see a valid successor 20 years later.


Coo, thanks, I'm blushing somewhat!

All this discussion of Carrier finally pushed me to having another pass at getting the source back. The 68k versions were quite easy - ddrescue to slowly pull every last sector off the floppies, fastback (three versions, mostly from dodgy Russian crack sides!) running in a VM, and there it was.

But the PC version ... I ended up buying a Catweasel card (which reads Amiga/protected disks on a PC) and using this to pull the heavily corrupted raw data off the floppies. I then wrote loads of Python to rootle through the data and tease out any good sectors (ignoring headers many of which were wrong/damaged) and saved it off the image files. After dozens of passes on each 5.25" disk, and automated merges of good bits from each, I finally got every last sector.

I have now rebuilt PC Carrier Command from source (using wine on Linux) and have run the .exe in dosbox.

The PC version is far more rounded than the 68k versions but the sound is nasty. Oh, but wait! What's this? Could it be the Sound Blaster 16 docs open on my desktop ...

Ian

[Celery]

Hey Ian, would you find it in your heart to make the small improvements that were in your original vision of CC and are doable with little trouble, and release a modern PC compatible version?

[dontknowhow]

Coo, thanks, I'm blushing somewhat!
There's no reason for that. That game can be deservedly considered a legend

[gadgetmind]

Hey Ian, would you find it in your heart to make the small improvements that were in your original vision of CC and are doable with little trouble, and release a modern PC compatible version?

At the most, I think I'll be up to fixing the sound.

I'd love to release the source so that others can do more, but there are a few roadblocks. Nothing insurmountable, and I'm sure it will happen some time in the next couple of years, but not right yet.

Ian

[scrapser]

I play Carrier Command via Amiga Forever. Aside from some challenges getting the controllers to "feel" like the an Amiga style 8-way joystick, it seems pretty good. Am I missing anything with this approach?

Thinking back, I do remember always having difficulty flying the Mantas with the mouse so I never invested that much into it and stuck with the joystick. I had a similar problem trying to control the hovership in Virus (another great game for the Amiga).

[gadgetmind]

All you're missing are the much improved enemy strategy/tactics of the PC/Mac versions, and of course the time warp button.
Ian

[scrapser]

I wasn't aware there were enhancements or even a PC/Mac version. Interesting. Can you describe the improvements briefly? I always had my hands full with the game as it is and never really found a "formula" for winning. If I lost it was usually due to some strategic mistake.

Just for yuks, I stumbled across CC back in 1988 in a little computer store in a small town in NH. Back then you had to search high and low for Amiga games and pick them up wherever you could find them. When I first played CC I was stunned by the immersion. I never tired of it.

[gadgetmind]

Here is what the WHATS.NEW file says -

--------------------------------------------------
Attention Gary Scheinwald

Here is a quick list of what has gone into PC carrier that wasn't in the ST
or Amiga versions

. Warp mode (on Carrier map screen) to bend time to let you get to places
with vastly reduced boredom levels

. Draggable radars in the Planes and Tanks (these get 'knocked' out of the
way by the pop-up missile window

. The tank missile now rolls as it flies

. You can get a view from all four planes/tanks by clicking into the
plane/tank info screen window

. Greatly improved enemy strategy

. Far better head-on battles with enemy carrier

. Enemy carrier will sometimes attack you!

These are some of the features of the PC version that it would be nice to
mention

. Video modes
. VGA
. EGA
. CGA
. Tandy 16-colour
. Hercules

. Input devices
. Keyboard
. Joystick (Amstrad or IBM analog)
. Microsoft Mouse

. You can use TSR's when the game is paused (with ctrl-s)

. Fits on to a single unprotected disk which is only accessed when you change video modes

. Zero-crossing sampled sound
--------------------------------------------------

Ian

[AlFitz]

Did you have anything to do with Battle Command?

[gadgetmind]

Did you have anything to do with Battle Command?

I was on the periphery of that one. I did a lot of refactoring of the graphics code (made graphics drivers and shapes loadable, tried to separate engine from game a bit more, etc.) and did some work on other systems, but the game design was being lead by someone else, and much of the work on it was by guys we'd employed.

Battle Command isn't a bad game, and there are quite a lot of nice elements, it's just not Carrier Command!

Ian

---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 AM ----------

I've just checked some dates.

Carrier command
ST release April 1988
Amiga release July 1988
PC release July 1989
Mac release Feb 1990

Battle Command
ST/AG released Nov 1990 through to Feb 1991
PC release slightly earlier?

Abrams
Genesis release Feb 1991

Abrams on the Genesis is something I did pretty much single-handed. This involved me hand-building a Snasm interface that plugged into the 68000 socket, emulated the cartridge, and provided a simple SCSI interface. I even have one lying around so might take a picture of it to scare you all! I then ported Abrams by myself, including all the drivers, 3D object converters, sprites and sound.

It looks like Steve Caslin and Stephen Hey were working on Battle Command, and I know a few other guys were involved, probably Andy Onions on the Z80.

1989 we started Cross Products, a company providing dev tools to games developers, and I got dragged more and more into this. Working on Abrams for Sega got me in close with those guys, and in 1994 Sega bought Cross Products.

Battle Command had a scrappy finish, and money was once more very thin on the ground, and some of the versions were finished in-house at Ocean with at least Stephen Hey working for them directly.

Those weren't really happy days for anyone, and we messed Ocean around a bit on Battle Command, and our Mirrorsoft project (Duster, pretty much all mine) had to be abandoned as it had gone totally off the rails and I was burnt out.

Ian

[AlFitz]

Thanks for the reply Ian.

I did try and perserve with Battle Command but I think I hit a really hard mission near the end of the game and gave up. As you said, it didn't really have the elements that made Carrier Command such a classic game (CC was the reason I got an ST after seeing it reviewed in a magazine).

It's probably already been mentioned in this thread but have you played Hostile Waters, its one of my all time favourites as well. It never got the recognition it deserved and I think shortly afterwards the company that made it (Rage) shut down, shame. I think theres some multiplayer code out there somewhere but no-one outside of the developers has ever seen it.

[gadgetmind]

I must admit that I'd forgotten a lot (nearly everything!) about Battle Command. I had to play every mission several times to do the Roland sound (I have no memory of who did the Adlib sound!) but haven't played it since then - I just don't really regard it as being my work They do say that success has many fathers whereas failure is an orphan, or something like that. :-)

If only there was a way to know how a game was going to turn out, but like books, movies and children, you just have to do your best and see how things turn out.

I guess I ought to track down Hostile Waters - it's nice to think we inspired others. Or maybe I won't bother; it's far too easy to run your head in retrospective mode rather than looking to the future. I'd love to get back into games development, but nowadays even iPhone/Android games seem to be activities for fairly large teams.

Ian

[skipped1]

I just imagined original carrier command for android! But how to control it with most phones w/o keyboard :(

[gadgetmind]

Carrier Command was heavy on the mouse and didn't make very much use of the keyboard.
Ian

[skipped1]

So it is really possible to make orginal CC for android with touchscreen working as "notebook touchpad"? :)

Now im more interested in that then in CC:GM :D

[gadgetmind]

Sorry, missed this. We don't have any drawings and the shapes are bytecode driven rather than being simple coordinates.


Hmmm, I have just documented the shape data structure/language, and it would be possible to parse this with some simple python. I'm happy to post (or PM) the details if anyone fancies a bash.

Alternatively, I could have a go with the dosbox debugger and try to dump the points array straight from memory.

Ian

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------


So it is really possible to make orginal CC for android with touchscreen working as "notebook touchpad"? :)


Possible, yes, easy, no. I'd have to think long and hard about the best way to do it. Probably by ripping out lots of the existing input/cursor code, ditto all the audio and interrupt stuff, and then running the existing code in an 8086 emulator with input fed down and the 16 colour VGA buffer being copied and scaled up to the real display.

Of course, there is always this.

http://androiddosbox.appspot.com/

Ian

[sav112g]

oh this as an App would go down a storm.....but then Money is not everything.;)

[gadgetmind]

oh this as an App would go down a storm.....but then Money is not everything.;)

Golly, is the sad old fart market really that large? :)

I have been toying with writing an Android App, and I can see ways to have a lot of Carrier running under x86 emulation to avoid too much rewriting, but with calls up to Android for some of the drawing via OpenGL.

However, I have vowed to finish the book I'm writing before biting off any more semi-impossible projects!

Ian

[sav112g]

Old Fart Market- for us yes!

But you know how it goes before you know it your no1 in the App charts with the young lot claiming have you played this new game, like it is a new idea. just like most of the songs these days with backing tracks from old 80's songs but the new girl band or boy band pass it off as a new sound that they love lol.

Sugar babes – Gary Numan cars comes to mind!

“yeah we love this new backing track its so original”

“So you’re a fan of Gary Numan then?”

“Who”

[skipped1]

Of course, there is always this.

http://androiddosbox.appspot.com/

Ian

Few hours with dosbox later:
Its early alpha -> dosbox is very unstable on my G1 - mainly because of low memory, i had to use memsize=4
Big problem is that after "converting sprites" is language select screen: F1..English but no way how to press F1 on android :) I cant launch dosbox with remmaping parameter nor press Ctrl+F1 for remap, so now im trying to find another way how to remap F keys somewhere else

[ajfarrell]

Hmmm, I have just documented the shape data structure/language, and it would be possible to parse this with some simple python. I'm happy to post (or PM) the details if anyone fancies a bash.

Alternatively, I could have a go with the dosbox debugger and try to dump the points array straight from memory.

Ian

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------



Possible, yes, easy, no. I'd have to think long and hard about the best way to do it. Probably by ripping out lots of the existing input/cursor code, ditto all the audio and interrupt stuff, and then running the existing code in an 8086 emulator with input fed down and the 16 colour VGA buffer being copied and scaled up to the real display.

Of course, there is always this.

http://androiddosbox.appspot.com/

Ian
Hi Ian,

That's great, could you dump the co-ordinates (x,y,z) on screen for each craft so I can then generate 3d images directly in an ACAD package from which developments for creating models could be produced (i'll post photos online when done!).

You mentioned that you've now rebuilt PC Carrier Command from source (using wine on Linux) and have run the .exe in dosbox, have you resolved the major sound difference between amiga and pc version at all? If so could you make it available for download?

Cheers,

Anthony

[gadgetmind]

That's great, could you dump the co-ordinates (x,y,z) on screen for each craft so I can then generate 3d images directly in an ACAD package from which developments for creating models could be produced (i'll post photos online when done!).


It's really not that easy, but I'll see what I can do.



You mentioned that you've now rebuilt PC Carrier Command from source (using wine on Linux) and have run the .exe in dosbox, have you resolved the major sound difference between amiga and pc version at all? If so could you make it available for download?


Doing something about the sound is "on the list" but it will involve me writing Sound Blaster drivers from scratch, and (harder) creating the FM "instrument" patches. Sadly, the only version of the Battle Command source I can find is quite early and before anything other than Roland sound was added.

Ian

[Jace11]

Glad to hear your revamping the sound for the PC version. I fired up CC again recently. I tried the ST, Amiga and PC versions while looking through old games / ROMs etc and compared them to see which I liked best. I had a suspicion that there was a few minor differences in gameplay. The sound on the Amiga is clearly superior though, but I always found the AI too easy. I could set traps for the AI which it would walk into.

The ST is the same (and I have seen the enemy carrier cross an island). What you say about the DOS version having "improvements" is true....

Aside from the sound, it's definately the best version... in the DOS version the AI can be really nasty... (it does indeed hunt YOU!)

I recently played a couple of quick start games (action game??) and set the same trap I used to all those years ago for the amiga AI. Take hostile island that you start near then sit out at sea.. and wait for him to attack one of the three islands in that triangle..

Except on two occasions the enemy ambushed me in mid-ocean as I waited - I was nowhere near an island! (and sank me both times!). That never happened on the amiga version (and I played that a lot!). I was pretty mad at being surprised by a 22 year old game that I thought I knew inside out.... :)

Oh and enemy carrier can fire missiles at your planes too (I never saw this in Amiga or ST) and it's planes will follow you for greater distance. If it confronts you in mid-ocean and you back off, it will come after you!!!

So if you're a fan of the original, try the DOS version, though the sound may suck, but maybe that will be remedied one day...

One problem with the DOS version that isn't present in the Amiga and ST versions is the scaling of the sea dots... they are scaled close together from the tank viewpoint and far apart for the ship and planes, its very noticiable when looking out the dock while your ship is moving fast, then look out the bridge... you should be able to spot the scale difference - maybe it was a deliberate change?

[gadgetmind]

Ah, yes, the enemy carrier on the island. That bug was mine, 100% all me, end to end and top to bottom. But we were under massive pressure to finish the game (or at least to release what we had!) and both the company and ourselves as individuals were under serious financial pressure of the "no bills or wages paid for several months" variety. Those weren't good times.

Once the 68k versions were out of the door, and Rainbird saw the strong sales, we managed to get more advances, and really got stuck into the PC version. The work was technically difficult as when you're hitting the PC at the metal level (no libraries to help in those days!) it's a varied and complex beast, but it was pastures new and a chance to fix all that was broken. The enemy carrier was the last code to be completed in the 68k versions, and the most hairy and critical part of the whole thing in many ways, so we didn't just fix it, we ripped it out and totally rewrote it.

I would like to tackle the sound on the DOS version, but it's not a quick job and I'm a busy guy(1). As for the sea dots, this might have been deliberate, but I'd have to "read the source, Luke!" to be sure.

Ian
(1) If anyone knows someone who tackled SB16 and/or Gravis Ultrasound on the PC from 16-bit assembler, then please let me know! The code is easy enough (I can hack around the 68k logic and recode in x86) but the patches/instruments for the SB16 could take me a long time to get right.

[ajfarrell]

Hi Ian,

Can you post/pm your documented shape data structure/language, I'll try parsing it.

[BFCrusader]

Out of curiosity, did anyone find any use for the fuel transfer pod Walruses use to refuel another Walrus? I didn't really, although the concept was cool.

I just didn't believe that the Walrus was fast enough to be useful in extended travel and their range were limited. Although... was the signal thingy Mantas use able to widen the signal range for Walruses? I thought it was only supposed to widen the range for other Mantas.

What was the idea, Ian?

[skipped1]

Out of curiosity, did anyone find any use for the fuel transfer pod Walruses use to refuel another Walrus? I didn't really, although the concept was cool.

I just didn't believe that the Walrus was fast enough to be useful in extended travel and their range were limited. Although... was the signal thingy Mantas use able to widen the signal range for Walruses? I thought it was only supposed to widen the range for other Mantas.

What was the idea, Ian?

I did, my best / most crazy mission was using four walruses and three mantas. One manta with telemetry booster, one with laser, all other pods full of rockets. One walrus with ACCB, three with refuel, main pods loaded with rockets and laser. Mission target: lonely neutral island which was too far to waste fuel of carrier.
All vehicles on route to first, walruses at full speed, mantas at lowest speed (they were still a bit faster, so they needed to wait for walruses a few times). Mantas refueled on airport of first island, two warluses refueled other two so only two were able to continue their travel with full tanks, one refuel remained. Second island and only one walrus remained with full tank. I lost laser manta here ... damaged while landing, so it was using more fuel and was unable to reach last island.

Last island, CC builded, about twenty seconds after planting ACCB manta with telemetry booster ran out of fuel and crashed, folowed by other manta and last walrus :)

I was exhausted maintaining carrier (which took course another way) and seven vehicles :D But it was worth it :-)

I know i had two mantas and most weaponry useless, but i had plenty of those, only limited resource was carrier fuel and i didn't know if i meet enemy carrier :)

[BFCrusader]

Cool, a proverbial task force of Mantas and Walruses. Just because of that I feel like playing it again, lol

[.Taffy]

I did, my best / most crazy mission was using four walruses and three mantas. One manta with telemetry booster, one with laser, all other pods full of rockets. One walrus with ACCB, three with refuel, main pods loaded with rockets and laser. Mission target: lonely neutral island which was too far to waste fuel of carrier.
All vehicles on route to first, walruses at full speed, mantas at lowest speed (they were still a bit faster, so they needed to wait for walruses a few times). Mantas refueled on airport of first island, two warluses refueled other two so only two were able to continue their travel with full tanks, one refuel remained. Second island and only one walrus remained with full tank. I lost laser manta here ... damaged while landing, so it was using more fuel and was unable to reach last island.

Last island, CC builded, about twenty seconds after planting ACCB manta with telemetry booster ran out of fuel and crashed, folowed by other manta and last walrus :)

I was exhausted maintaining carrier (which took course another way) and seven vehicles :D But it was worth it :-)

I know i had two mantas and most weaponry useless, but i had plenty of those, only limited resource was carrier fuel and i didn't know if i meet enemy carrier :)

Am I sad for thinking that actually sounds kind of cool? :D