FP : DR - News & Discussion

[kavoven]

New Trailer:

http://www.pcgames.de/aid,695830/Operation-Flashpoint-Dragon-Rising-Gold-Meldung-neuer-Trailer-und-Screenshots/PC/Video/

(They're also reporting some new screenshots with "ugly textures")

[vasmkd]

Just an update from viiipers post
"if you wanted a mirror of OFP1 then your going to be disappointed if you wanted a War game that placed you in the middle of a realistic hot zone or special operations mission then your going to get it"
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381002&page=2

That's it now we know its nothing like OFP, just as alot of us had suspected all along

[4 IN 1]

and they still clam it to be a realistic hot zone?

[jblackrupert]

New Trailer:

http://www.pcgames.de/aid,695830/Operation-Flashpoint-Dragon-Rising-Gold-Meldung-neuer-Trailer-und-Screenshots/PC/Video/

(They're also reporting some new screenshots with "ugly textures")


There is most definitely pre-renders mixed in with the real-time scenes in the video. You can see dramatic changes in the details between scenes.

[someguywho]

There is most definitely pre-renders mixed in with the real-time scenes in the video. You can see dramatic changes in the details between scenes.

Sorry but I must be blind. I'm not seeing this.

[jblackrupert]

Look at the soldiers, vehicles buildings, particularly the chopper.

I don't know how old this video is but CM has been doing it since the beginning
first it was entire videos pre-rendered which is to be expected as it was still work in progress but now it's a mix of realtime and pre-rendered with quick cuts
no real chance to see the difference unless you watch in HD and pause.

Kinda helps to download the video in HD and watch it fullscreen and pause
but theres a big difference in fine details from scene to scene.

The subject of pre-renders has been discussed on the CM forum
but threads that point it out when the video claims to be realtime
get deleted.

Heres an example of a video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixB3K2Flr7M
Look at the poly-count on the vehicles, the textures.. unless this a really really old build
it looks nothing like newer videos let alone the same game.



Seems CM is actively blocking users who post anything on their videos regarding the limited map sizes and tether
OFP2 has gone gold so expect bans and thread deleted to go into overdrive.




CM does this with most or all of their game videos
watch the live videos also. big difference.
screenshots they post also have pre-renders mixed in.

[MehMan]

Woah, the suppressed AI actually look suppressed! I know it's a bit lame, but at least there's some sort of visual to acompany being suppressed. That's an awsome feature missing in ArmA2.

[sparks50]

Look at the soldiers, vehicles buildings, particularly the chopper.


Thats all right for me if it results in a better and more stable framerate.

[Drake3571]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=28tK_G7v0oQ&#t=1m06s

the damned cannons on the helicopters don't even spin.

Think of every single game - shooter, vehicle, arcade, simulator - that featured an oversized rotary machine gun and think how many of them didn't animate the barrels spinning. None that I can recall. This is like when FPSs from the nineties had machine guns with static ammo belts or no cartridge ejection because it was too much for the engine to handle.

This just infers so much about the quality of the game it's distressing. Either their attention detail is so lacking they honestly didn't notice such a thing (and who knows what else was missed), or the engine is so taxed they had to cut that simple animation.

And it's not exactly looking pretty to begin with, compared to any next-gen action game. And that's taking into account the scale. interiors are bare. The parts with the choppers looked on par with Battlefield 2. Please don't mistake me for some fanboy who wants CM to "die die die :mad:" because I view them as some competition to Arma. I was very disappointed with Arma2 and was rooting for OFP2 to deliver a decent game.

I posted on the official forums. Look at the hilarity that ensued:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381179

Watch for the Moderator posting and how everyone blacklashes against him when he tries to troll the thread.

[echo1]

From the above-linked thread:


the game really should be played by people with imagination so they can fill in the blanks lol.

This man will go far in life.

[DM]

I posted on the official forums. Look at the hilarity that ensued:

Watch for the Moderator posting and how everyone blacklashes against him when he tries to troll the thread.
1. I cant believe I just wasted 5 mins of my life reading all that drivel.

2. Despite that, it is amusing to once again see viiiiiiiper totally miss the point of the post during his pro-dr trolling. If I was a higher-up at codemasters I would be ashamed of that forum and the "staff" that run it.

[someguywho]

LOL so going to the other site and posting like that isn't trolling? So the game is missing an animation. Something else to add to the list of disappointments.

Isn't it great that A2 is perfect and isn't missing anything right? You're all going to flame me now but please have some common sense!

[echo1]

Isn't it great that A2 is perfect and isn't missing anything right? You're all going to flame me now but please have some common sense!

Have fun trying to find anyone around here who thinks ArmA 2 is perfect.

I think it's just that as of late, CM has been announcing more and more problems with DR, and thus the negative sentiment. If they were announcing good stuff, there would be a more positive response. Despite what some would believe, most of us here would have liked CM to make a good milsim.

[Deadfast]

Codemasters hyped the game up, promised a lot. Now they can't deliver and it's backfiring at them.

[someguywho]

Yes. Two games would of been better than one but it's not to be. :(

[colossus]

While this is a very small and fairly unoticable animation, it's hardly any reason to deny the lack of it.
In that ridiculous way of handling it I felt the need..

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6025/testnhh.jpg

That is all. Now I'll exile myself from this thread.

[D007]

I can't see ofp2 comparing even remotely to arma 2.
just the vast difference in numbers of usable vehicles alone, completely gimps their potential.
I mean they literally have like half the amount of usable vehicles and no jets at all.

Arma 2 however suffers from the same kind of bugs arma 1 suffers from.
I think ofp2 will be far more stable, but far less content.
and in the war of the games, content tends to win.

I know I won't be buying it anyway.

[BangTail]

LOL so going to the other site and posting like that isn't trolling? So the game is missing an animation. Something else to add to the list of disappointments.

Isn't it great that A2 is perfect and isn't missing anything right? You're all going to flame me now but please have some common sense!

A2 is not perfect and the problems are clearly highlighted and discussed on these forums.

The only reason that negativity about A2 is deleted on these forums is if it is presented in an inappropriate or belligerent fashion.

The same cannot be said for the CM forums. Some of the mods are so blatantly unobjective, and for lack of a better nonexistent word, "fanboyish". I don't know if CM even realises (or cares) that these guys are doing way more harm than good.

DR loses features daily and is now showing itself for what I suspect it always was. A tactical shooter that was designed with consoles in mind that is being ported to the PC (with a couple of "throw away" enhancements).

Does that mean it will be bad? I don't know. Does that mean the the fans have been misled? From the title on down :rolleyes:

Eth

PS : I don't like the fact that CM used the OFP name but with that exception aside, I would have still rather had a good game (that was real competition for A2) than this watered down console schlock any day of the week.

[Drake3571]

The same cannot be said for the CM forums. Some of the mods are so blatantly unobjective, and for lack of a better nonexistent word, "fanboyish". I don't know if CM even realises (or cares) that these guys are doing way more harm than good.

That is exactly how I would describe the BIS mods as well. Remember when the claimed several video game sites were involved in a conspiracy against them because they didn't give 100% positive previews? Or when that polish (or was it german?) review came out listing all the bugs in the campaign and they claimed none of those existed and lambasted them as unprofessional, right up until forum members got their hands on copies.


I don't like the fact that CM used the OFP name but with that exception aside

It is their name to use. They own the franchise fair and square.

[BangTail]

That is exactly how I would describe the BIS mods as well. Remember when the claimed several video game sites were involved in a conspiracy against them because they didn't give 100% positive previews? Or when that polish (or was it german?) review came out listing all the bugs in the campaign and they claimed none of those existed and lambasted them as unprofessional, right up until forum members got their hands on copies.



It is their name to use. They own the franchise fair and square.

I've NEVER seen a mod here (since OFP was released) behave like the mods on the CM forums, EVER. I've seen bias towards A2 but never the unobjective ranting a la CM mods. Further, threads that paint A2 in a negative light are not deleted unless they are formulated in a rude or inappropriate fashion.

Yes, it is their name to use dishonestly, "fair and square" as you say. In the end, it's only going to hurt them when the masses figure out that DR =! OFP (which is happening on an hourly basis JFYI). It should have been called "Warfare : Dragon Rising" or something to that effect - End of confusion!

Eth

[Eble]

Past caring really, only shock left is that PC dedicated servers files don't exist and join in progress is out.

I'll still buy this for the PC, the loss of the editor meant I no longer wanted it for the PS3.

Expect to see lots of youtube movies once it's released, I feel the urge for some comparisons (unfair I know as Arma2 and OFP-DR are not competing) :)

Southy

[Praelium]

That is exactly how I would describe the BIS mods as well. Remember when the claimed several video game sites were involved in a conspiracy against them because they didn't give 100% positive previews? Or when that polish (or was it german?) review came out listing all the bugs in the campaign and they claimed none of those existed and lambasted them as unprofessional, right up until forum members got their hands on copies.

Yeah, I remember some of that. But lets be fair, that review was extremely unprofessional. They didn't even have the correct aspect ratio .

[sparks50]

http://www.ofp2.info/ftp/pics/news/pics1/21.09.09-mp-5.jpg

Looks like the driver and gunner position is correctly separate and not "one man does it all".
thats good news.

[Eble]

http://www.ofp2.info/ftp/pics/news/pics1/21.09.09-mp-5.jpg

Looks like the driver and gunner position is correctly separate and not "one man does it all".
thats good news.

Not sure what you mean?

[Maddmatt]

Don't know if this was posted before. Looking at the full size screenshots on IGN, it looks... bad :(
I hope that's the console version...

http://au.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/901430/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-/images/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising--20090924064251842.html?page=mediaFull

There were some better and sharper screens a while ago though, so maybe it can look better on a good PC.

The colours look plain weird. Look how brown this Marine is (I'm not talking skin colour!): http://au.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/901430/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-/images/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising--20090924064259998.html?page=mediaFull

And everything looks brown here:
http://au.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/901430/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-/images/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising--20090924064254514.html?page=mediaFull

[That guy]

I THINK that CM changes the USMC from woodland to desert marpat

oddly enough its kind of hard to tell. you know there is a problem in the lighting engine when its hard to tell if they are in woodland or desert uniforms....

[Deadfast]

They have ridiculous color correction in.

From my observation of the pictures the game looks either too brown, too blue or too red. I remember there was a review talking about this too.

[[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-]

It should have been called "Warfare : Dragon Rising" or something to that effect - End of confusion!

I'm annoyed that they are using the name OFP to gain sales and call it the successor to OFP.

their failure is heading into the Epic Zone.

voted No, I definitely won't buy it.

[Leopardi]

That is exactly how I would describe the BIS mods as well..

Then you clearly have no idea about the mods at DR forums. It's like 12 year old fanboys that ban people if they don't agree with them and join them praising the game.

[jblackrupert]

It looks like they've given the game a movie look over a real world appearence
even nighttime has that shot in the nuit américaine style like some movies do
shooting in the day and applying blue filters to give an appearence of night.

The soldiers hands and mussle flash in Arma II look horrible
so we can't complaint complain about OFP2 too much
but yes, the overall look of soldiers is worse.


Funny picture post on CM

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5647031&postcount=10

[vilas]

OFP 2 DR is too secret yet, they haven't published models list and etc

flashlight, laser, thermal vision looks promissing but main question is how modable it will be
are tools will be first day and etc.

for me it is too CoD'ish i would prefer old OFP style :)
and in the CM forum there are people moaning that we here (BIS forums) are outdated players who want bring past back
yes :D i love old orginal OFP and i don't care about CoDs :D
if OFP DR will be competition for CoD5, 6... i don't care :]
i care about things like we have here in OFP/A1/A2 community

yet i don't see list of weapons and vehicles of DR neither modability features

[Leopardi]

O
but main question is how modable it will be
are tools will be first day and etc.



It is already stated that there will be no mod support. Because it's a console game and mods could drive away DLC sales.

[sparks50]

Not sure what you mean?

The battlefield games and many others have only room for one crew member, who drives and guns at the same time.

BTW Dragon Rising has gone gold.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381080

[vilas]

It is already stated that there will be no mod support. Because it's a console game and mods could drive away DLC sales.

than big f*** CM OF2DR ! :D :D :D
shame that they use Operation Flashpoint title, which is the greatest title ever

[ManDay]

It is already stated that there will be no mod support. Because it's a console game and mods could drive away DLC sales.

Source? Quote? I remember having heard something similar, though, iirc, it has only been something like "there will no modding tools be released with the game".

Any-how, that's how rumours emerge - one reads "No modding tools are shipped on release" in an interview, the next only remembers "no modding tools" and then comes along Leopardi, claiming that OFP/DR will not support mods at all...

[whisper]

The thing I read was that the Community Manager was unable to specify "when, if there will be any, will the modding tool be released", something along these lines. Ie : you won't know until we release them, if we ever release them.
If I remember well, that was BI's stance back in OFP days

[MadDogX]

Any-how, that's how rumours emerge - one reads "No modding tools are shipped on release" in an interview, the next only remembers "no modding tools" and then comes along Leopardi, claiming that OFP/DR will not support mods at all...

Yeah, it's like Chinese Whispers :). The last official statement I read was that the mod tools won't be available on release day. Everything else is just speculation and misunderstandings.

Devs and publishers really need to watch how they formulate their announcements nowadays, lest people misinterpret their statements and start spreading rumors. Just like the ArmA "1.0x final patch" announcements that turned into "ZOMG last patch evar!!!11!1".

[maturin]

Microsoft doesn't usually allow mods on their X-boxes. They want control over content.

[DM]

Yes, but there might still be the possibility to mod the PC version.

So far its unconfirmed either way...

[Eble]

actually the last word on dev tools was from Helios who stated "I need to speak to devs who control that part of the game, but they are all on holiday so it will have to wait...."

[MehMan]

Don't let Monty hear you, or he'll give you hell about how he knows better because he PMed viper. :don1:

[Eble]

Don't let Monty hear you, or he'll give you hell about how he knows better because he PMed viper. :don1:

haha true that guy wanted to rage me off the forum, uncontrollable anger no idea why.

I wasn't lying, I merely said at that time no mod tools what so ever had been confirmed (otherthan the PC mission editior) and he does his nut.

[.kju [PvPscene]]

All devs on holiday before the release? Doesn't sound too good. :D

[Von_Paulus]

All devs on holiday before the release? Doesn't sound too good. :D

Not all but those who control that part... but it doesn't sound good either.
It's an excuse.
I wonder what more surprises will be confirmed until the release.

[NodUnit]

we here (BIS forums) are outdated players who want bring past back


And what is wrong with that? There are many great things about past gaming that excel over modern day, and it is strange that way... In the past we didn't have quite the game play (in most cases minus some special) or graphics we do today yet there is something about computer and video games of that past that have this sparkle.

Perhaps it could be that there was more variety, several years ago you could virtually have anything happening, things didn't have to always make sense to be great. But with today's society so focused on the new and visuals I imagine few have or will not turn their noses up at an opportunity to experience the past.

[ManDay]

All devs on holiday before the release? Doesn't sound too good. :D

Laying low somewhere on the Maldives :D

[kavoven]

The PCG has a test in the current mag but they didn't but it online... Did anyone buy it?

Edit

Just went into a mag store and noticed that the release date is yet 5 days to go... my fault.

[Scrub]

And what is wrong with that? There are many great things about past gaming that excel over modern day, and it is strange that way... In the past we didn't have quite the game play (in most cases minus some special) or graphics we do today yet there is something about computer and video games of that past that have this sparkle.

Perhaps it could be that there was more variety, several years ago you could virtually have anything happening, things didn't have to always make sense to be great. But with today's society so focused on the new and visuals I imagine few have or will not turn their noses up at an opportunity to experience the past.


I know this feeling you all are talking about, how the landscape, buildings and citizens are better visuals (the people need more facial gestures, but meh..), but it still feels detached or empty. Is it possible that the density/complexity of the landscape and buildings does not match the citizenry? Or vice versa? OFP:RES was well balanced in this regard.

On topic: For those who underestimate the need for small details such as the tri-barrel rotating animation, it is exactly that which breathes life, immersion, and depth into a game. In a quiet moment on a patrol, you see a farmer scratch his ass, a cute girl in a car driving past, the rudder on the Cessna move while it's flying in the distance, your teammate look at his gun, a bird lazily circling above::Edit:: forgot to say a dragonfly buzzing around your head, and a leaf or two blowing in the wind ::edit::... And possibly miss an enemy inching out, leaning from around a corner and taking a bead on your teamleader while the rest of them are flanking.

In DR, from statements and gameplay vids, you'll see: *Bang!* *Kapow!* *Flash!* *Zing!!!* Enemy! Enemy! Friendly! Friendly! And rarely, if ever, a moment as described above. No depth of atmosphere to breathe in. It's another type of game alltogether.. Or a larger one that we've seen before.:rolleyes:

[someguywho]

This is why I want to get ArmA2. Even if it is to just go in the editor and mess around or take everything in.

That is why OPF:RES is still by my computer now. But some features just can't be added on... Need ArmA2!

[Blackhawk]

Well, I've preordered it, lets see how it goes...

[jblackrupert]

I remember something the called a manual in the old days........

I remember buying games based on the weight of the box alone....

I remember paper and cloth maps and other goodies and it wasn't called the "Elite special edition"... and didn't cost $100 or more.

I remember games based on books included the book itself.....


The old days were gooooooood. Except of course the dongle and code wheels
among many ridiculous protection schemes in those days......


Opening a game in the old days was like Christmas morning in Bill gates house
compared to now. :yay:

[Defunkt]

Well, I've preordered it, lets see how it goes...
Not for me to tell you how to spend your money but I think it's a shame more gamers don't keep their wallet in their pocket until a game is proven, especially in this case given how little CM have revealed. Can't help but feel it'd lead to better games.

[jblackrupert]

Chances are it'll get leaked online before release then videos and reviews will appear for at least the SP part.

[Blake]

I still can't get over the terrain, I mean does Skira island really look like "Shire"? Closest real life comparison which I've experienced is wine region of Santa Barbara county in California with gentle, grassy hills and some odd groups of leafy trees here and there. Beatiful yes, but somehow it does not feel like a theater for a conflict. Not to mention the bits of brick fences placed on the terrain just for the purpose of offering player some protection...very artificial.

But I bet it will probably be fun for a short while, I can't figure anyone playing ArmA 2 shifting to that for good.

[jblackrupert]

Arma II has stone fences scattereed around in some odd places also.

Remnents of old brick and stone foundations aren't out of place
in a place like the island it was modeled on if it had scattered populations
over centuries.

[Blackhawk]

Not for me to tell you how to spend your money but I think it's a shame more gamers don't keep their wallet in their pocket until a game is proven, especially in this case given how little CM have revealed. Can't help but feel it'd lead to better games.

Well, what little reviews that have come seem good, no drop below 7, and having read some, I don't get the feeling this game will be bad, just a disappointment compared to OFP.

One of those games I'll be playing on Saturday night..

[4 IN 1]

I remember something the called a manual in the old days........

I remember buying games based on the weight of the box alone....

I remember paper and cloth maps and other goodies and it wasn't called the "Elite special edition"... and didn't cost $100 or more.

I remember games based on books included the book itself.....


The old days were gooooooood. Except of course the dongle and code wheels
among many ridiculous protection schemes in those days......


Opening a game in the old days was like Christmas morning in Bill gates house
compared to now. :yay:

Yeah, remember falcon 4.0, the good old days

[Von_Paulus]

I remember something the called a manual in the old days........

I remember buying games based on the weight of the box alone....

I remember paper and cloth maps and other goodies and it wasn't called the "Elite special edition"... and didn't cost $100 or more.

I remember games based on books included the book itself.....


The old days were gooooooood. Except of course the dongle and code wheels
among many ridiculous protection schemes in those days......


Opening a game in the old days was like Christmas morning in Bill gates house
compared to now. :yay:

Indeed. Even the code wheels seems charming now compared to nowadays.
Those times are over.
Yes I remember Falcon 4 box. Now that was a manual.

[Anguis]

I remember something the called a manual in the old days........

I remember buying games based on the weight of the box alone....

I remember paper and cloth maps and other goodies and it wasn't called the "Elite special edition"... and didn't cost $100 or more.

I remember games based on books included the book itself.....


The old days were gooooooood. Except of course the dongle and code wheels
among many ridiculous protection schemes in those days......


Opening a game in the old days was like Christmas morning in Bill gates house
compared to now. :yay:

So true! I remember all that, too - thanks for the nostalgia-inducing post!:yay: Some protection schemes were even educational - cf. F-19 Stealth Fighter: you ended up memorizing various NATO and Soviet aircraft.

[interox]

Not for me to tell you how to spend your money but I think it's a shame more gamers don't keep their wallet in their pocket until a game is proven, especially in this case given how little CM have revealed. Can't help but feel it'd lead to better games.


This post could well be applicable to Arma2 :rolleyes:

[Defunkt]

ArmA 2 has more than proven itself worthy of purchase for me.

[BronzeEagle]

arma2 looks cool ill admit, but this dragon rising looks overall more professional, looks more thorough.

[Max Power]

arma2 looks cool ill admit, but this dragon rising looks overall more professional, looks more thorough.

LOL WUT

This you'll have to quantify, I think.

[interox]

ArmA 2 has more than proven itself worthy of purchase for me.

And me too however that's after how long since release date? Arma2 is fantastic when it all comes together and does what it should.

As for DR; loads of people bashing a non released game, never played it never will mentality all because of a name. None of it based on and kind of actual gameplay experience.
I've pre ordered DR, I can afford it and I'm not biased or fussed about a name, I want a good looking, fun and functional wargame. If DR is that I'll be happy.

[4 IN 1]

I wait till there is a beta patch release system and brought it last momth, doesnt that mean somthing? ;)

[Rhodite]

I think its wiser to wait for the game or demo to be released before passing judgemet on DR. Until we get the chance to see and play the final product we can speculate till the cows come home.

Making sweeping statements that it is better or worse than another title at this stage is rather risky..

Assumptions are.. well you know the rest.

[orbwar]

It is the same problem with EA Games and BF1943 that is only available on consoles at the moment.

Think its time for a petition :yay:

Save PC Games !

[Hoot]

Thanks to Dawnrazor666 from our forums, we have been shown some actual ranking of OFP2 in two German gamemags.

PCG 77%

Pro:
+ stylish and expensive lighting with vast battlefields
+ lots of weapons
+ compelling campaign
+ terrific sounds

Negative:
-AI comrades have blackouts
-you can complete some missions by using trial and error tactics only
-no quick save
-inconvenient radial menus

conclusio: it's like playing the old Ghost Recon series

Gamestar 78%

Negative:
-no embark and disembarking [animations]
-no vegetation drawn at distance [same clutter technology i guess]
-hostiles are often less demanding
-it hardly feels like playing a team
-vegetation is indestructible
-vehicle controls are woolly [?]
-campaign too short
-armory is just little in use
-less surprises
-some glitches in logics
-AI is sometimes not responding or behaves uncommon
-vehicle fleet is not really in use during campaign
-no cutscenes

Source: http://hx3.de/operation-flashpoint-2-dragon-rising-155/ofp-dr-updates-15809/39/#post268963

Edit: Thanks to Cyborg11 we have intel about the comparison article that can be also found in the current issue of the PCGames

[...]
"Is OFP2 the better Arma2 ?"
The answer is: obviously NO!

[...] But after some missions it becomes plainly clear that OFP2 is everything, but not a real military simulator. [...]

Source: http://hx3.de/community-161/ofp2-keine-konkurrenz-f-r-arma2-17758/34/#post268968

[Leopardi]

arma2 looks cool ill admit, but this dragon rising looks overall more professional, looks more thorough.

No it doesn't.

[Heatseeker]

Thanks to Dawnrazor666 from our forums, we have been shown some actual ranking of OFP2 in two German gamemags.

PCG 77%

Pro:
+ stylish and expensive lighting with vast battlefields
+ lots of weapons
+ compelling campaign
+ terrific sounds

Negative:
-AI comrades have blackouts
-you can complete some missions by using trial and error tactics only
-no quick save
-inconvenient radial menus

conclusio: it's like playing the old Ghost Recon series

Gamestar 78%

Negative:
-no embark and disembarking [animations]
-no vegetation drawn at distance [same clutter technology i guess]
-hostiles are often less demanding
-it hardly feels like playing a team
-vegetation is indestructible
-vehicle controls are woolly [?]
-campaign too short
-armory is just little in use
-less surprises
-some glitches in logics
-AI is sometimes not responding or behaves uncommon
-vehicle fleet is not really in use during campaign
-no cutscenes

Source: http://hx3.de/operation-flashpoint-2-dragon-rising-155/ofp-dr-updates-15809/39/#post268963

Edit: Thanks to Cyborg11 we have intel about the comparison article that can be found also in the current issue of the PCGames

[...]
"Is OFP2 the better Arma2 ?"
The answer is: obviously NO!

[...] But after some missions it becomes plainly clear that OFP2 is everything, but not a real military simulator. [...]

Source: http://hx3.de/community-161/ofp2-keine-konkurrenz-f-r-arma2-17758/34/#post268968

Well, A2 is not a real military simulator either... anyway i find it surprising that they didnt mention the tether in coop or the 4 km2 limitation in online adversarial, on the other hand i find it interesting that they compare it to OGR (in a large/open battlefield).

I could use a game to play betwean now and early next year, lets see that demo.

[Hoot]

Guess both articles will pop up during the next few days on the net so we can read them completely.

The term 'real military simulator' is meant to make a difference between FPS, tactical shooters, and those semi-simulators like BI's games are. I guess we do all know, that neither OFP:CWC/RH/R/E nor ArmA/Arma2 are simulators by definition ;)

And true, since i really know what i will get now with OFP2, i have no real problem with buying it to fill the gap until OA hits the shelves. Modern warfare becomes boring after a month, so i do need something different for some fast-paced oriented sessions. No blasphemy here, OFP2 is for sure no COD but on the other hand it's also no OFP.

[4 IN 1]

so it have about the same scores as with ARMA2(which is heavily bugged that time)

[echo1]

Yeah, and it seems to me that the bugs were the main complaint of the critics... If BIS had waited till the game was in a more stable state, it probably would have done much better. I hope they remember this fact the next time around :p

[BogdanM]

arma2 looks cool ill admit, but this dragon rising looks overall more professional, looks more thorough.

Care to elaborate? For me at least, it exactly the other way around.



As for DR; loads of people bashing a non released game, never played it never will mentality all because of a name. None of it based on and kind of actual gameplay experience.

Most of the criticism is about things that are present in other games also, not about things never seen before(if there are any). Of course we will not know all the insights before we actually play the game but we can make a pretty good idea based on the experience with other titles.


I've pre ordered DR, I can afford it and I'm not biased or fussed about a name, I want a good looking, fun and functional wargame. If DR is that I'll be happy.
Than it seems to be the right game for you.



Pro:
+ stylish and expensive lighting with vast battlefields
+ lots of weapons
+ compelling campaign
+ terrific sounds

Negative:
-AI comrades have blackouts
-you can complete some missions by using trial and error tactics only
-no quick save
-inconvenient radial menus

conclusio: it's like playing the old Ghost Recon series

Gamestar 78%

Negative:
-no embark and disembarking [animations]
-no vegetation drawn at distance [same clutter technology i guess]
-hostiles are often less demanding
-it hardly feels like playing a team
-vegetation is indestructible
-vehicle controls are woolly [?]
-campaign too short
-armory is just little in use
-less surprises
-some glitches in logics
-AI is sometimes not responding or behaves uncommon
-vehicle fleet is not really in use during campaign
-no cutscenes


The PROs are exactly what I expected and never questioned. But its funny to see that many of the Cons are those things CM fans complained about ARMA2 and joyed that OFP: DR won't have them. But I'm rather surprised though that the people who made the review came up with so few Pros, I hope that there are some other also.

[Von_Paulus]

i find it surprising that they didnt mention the tether in coop or the 4 km2 limitation in online adversarial....
and also the fact that it seems there is no support for dedicated servers and only 4 maps for MP.
Those reviews don't mention anything related with MP and PVP.
Besides what about the Mission editor? No word?

[Scrub]

Most of the criticism is about things that are present in other games also, not about things never seen before(if there are any). Of course we will not know all the insights before we actually play the game but we can make a pretty good idea based on the experience with other titles.


Most of my complaints are from hyped features that are missing or much less than described.

There are a few new features that I haven't seen before:
-Player tether
-Smaller box inside a large map
-Only 3 freekin' missions (two with only two locations) for MP. OK so Doom had two, coop and DM.. but in DM at least the whole level was free to use.

One last wonder I have upon release: Will all these awesomely detailed reload animations (SMAW and such) cause even more player problems than the OFP/ArmA ones?
I hope they learned to have break-ins in the animation

[Game__On]

New screenshot :

224 kb

:yay:

[DM]

New screenshot :

[img]http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7880/ofp.jpg[img]

Well done for posting the same image you did here (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=1445906#post1445906). Very creative, tho at least you re-sized it this time :j:

[Zipper5]

I don't get it. Is he making fun of ArmA II's hitpoint system, or something to do with DR? If it's meant to be ArmA II's, then why the hell is he using a DR screenshot? :confused:

[sparks50]

Seems to be meant as a parody on DR being more Arcade/gamey than Arma.

BTW Game__On, theres a 100kb limit on images here :)

[Game__On]

christ allmighty, aren't you all a serious bunch :bounce3:

Yes, it's supposed to a little satire at OFP's expense.

[echo1]

Well done for posting the same image you did here (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=1445906#post1445906). Very creative, tho at least you re-sized it this time :j:

And yet it's still over 100kb :p

[EvilNate]

I am most defiantly buying ofpdr. I want investors to know there is a market for these gaming genres. I doubt it will be as realistic as the arma series, but if we buy the milsim products today we'll be able to see what software engineering technology will bring to tomorrow's military sims. Competition is good, it drives technology and users will reap the benefits.

[W0lle]

Game on
Another infraction point for you for posting the same crappy image again which (again) is way over 100kb.

[Nikiller]

hi,


I am most defiantly buying ofpdr. I want investors to know there is a market for these gaming genres. I doubt it will be as realistic as the arma series, but if we buy the milsim products today we'll be able to see what software engineering technology will bring to tomorrow's military sims. Competition is good, it drives technology and users will reap the benefits.

Agree. Good post.

cya.

Nikiller.

[jblackrupert]

I am most defiantly buying ofpdr. I want investors to know there is a market for these gaming genres. I doubt it will be as realistic as the arma series, but if we buy the milsim products today we'll be able to see what software engineering technology will bring to tomorrow's military sims. Competition is good, it drives technology and users will reap the benefits.


On the other hand you reward them for releasing yet another dumbed down console port onto the market.

[echo1]

I am most defiantly buying ofpdr. I want investors to know there is a market for these gaming genres. I doubt it will be as realistic as the arma series, but if we buy the milsim products today we'll be able to see what software engineering technology will bring to tomorrow's military sims. Competition is good, it drives technology and users will reap the benefits.

Whilst I admire your altruism, you must bare in mind that OFPDR is not a milsim, Codemasters have said as much a lot of times. Either way, I seriously doubt that a company like Codemasters is going to be pushing the edge in FPS gaming :p

[DM]

On the other hand you reward them for releasing yet another dumbed down console port onto the market.
This.

The best thing we can do to support the "niche" games like milsims is to NOT buy the generic-box-shooter fps' like dr has sadly turned out to be.

You'd be better off making noise to the games magazines along the lines of "we want more milsims and less CoDs." But even then, mass-market products are always going to win out over niche (its called "niche" and "mass-market" for a reason)

[MehMan]

On the other hand you reward them for releasing yet another dumbed down console port onto the market.

x2

You'll just prove that more sim, less COD isn't the way to go. And we want more sim, less cod.

[ricbar89]

christ allmighty, aren't you all a serious bunch :bounce3:

Yes, it's supposed to a little satire at OFP's expense.

But ARMA uses hitpoints while DR doesnt? Is it mean to be ironic or something?

[Eble]

confirmed from German Review max 40 Ai in mission editor :(

Originally Posted by Waterproof Soap
raistlin:
according to the review of the german mag "gamestar", which reviewed the game in the upcoming issue(subscribers got the mag already yesterday), the screen will turn grey in editor/map test mode, when exceeding the limit of 40 units placed on the map.
Unfortunately we dont have any scans yet, only a quick info from german OPFDR Forum admin. he wrote the points for us down until we can read the full review online.
Heres the original quote, followed by translation:
- laut GameStar kommt ab ca 40 unterschiedlichen Einheiten im Editor nur noch ein grauer Bildschirm. Da kommt die Engine nicht hinterher....
-according to gamestar, after placing 40 diff. units the editor will show a grey screen only. they assume the engine is not up to it.

http://forum.operationflashpoint-dr....1614#post11614
FYI
Both PCGames and Gamestar gave a rating at about 78-79%. As they are at the market for a very long time (approx 10-15 yrs) and are considered as hard reviewers, the rating is still quite good and can be trusted. I will not cancel my preorder.

No large scale anything with only 40 AI

game Informer review:

The original Operation Flashpoint retains a cult following despite an archaic presentation and a slew of technical issues that have been slowly worked through since its 2001 release. That title's appeal is rooted in its hardcore military simulation; it's not quite one-shot-one-kill, but it's close. Codemasters' long-delayed sequel is finally nearing release, and one could apply all of those points to it just as well - archaic graphics and all.

Dragon Rising takes place on a set of fictional oil-rich islands that the U.S. and China are warring over. The scale is impressive; over 200 square kilometers of terrain await players. Codemasters intends the game to be the first sandbox-style title in the military simulation genre, and the setting certainly supports that. From what we saw, however, the practical applications of this huge area are limited. You get yelled at for going off-mission in the single-player campaign, and we can't imagine how 32 players will find each otehr if the enitire landmass is open for play.

Given the tiltle's unbending realism, engagement ranges are much longer than gamers are used to. The gameplay we saw revolves around trying to find enemies before they find you, and sniping them from hundreds of yards away. The end result is that you'll spend a lot of time trying to determine if a tiny brown block is an enemy's helmetor just another brick in the wall. Once combat breaks out, tactics like bounding, flanking, and suppressing fire come into play. In single-player, you can access commands for your AI companions through the d-pad, though none of the shortcuts or contextual single-button orders that console gamers are used to from Rainbow Six or Ghost Recon are available.

As uncompromising as the game can be, that toolbox is broad. A slew of vehicles and weapons, the ability to call in off-map support, and varied mission objectives all contribute to Codemasters' goal of creating the difinative military sim. Full four-player co-op through the campaign is a great feature. Both multiplayer modes strongley emphasize teamwork, putting players into squads and encouraging them to cover each others' butts.

It's hard to find a kind word for the game's presentation. Except for the long draw distance and thick foliage, the Xbox 360 build we saw in action could be a last-gen game. Smoke looks flat and unrealistic. Models are low-poly and stiffly animated. Everything simply looks dated. The early concept art and target renders released for this title are misleading, to say the least.

The franchise's original developer already released a PC-only spiritual successor to its niche faithul, ARMA II. Codematers hopes to draw more players in with this multiplatform release, and it'll be interesting to see if the console crowd embraces Operation Flashpoint's strict ruleset."

[DM]

confirmed from German Review max 40 Ai in mission editor :(

No large scale anything with only 40 AI
Only 40 AI, thats brutal. I wonder what scope there is for dynamic spawning and deleting of them. Otherwise, thats going to get very old, very fast.


Smoke looks flat and unrealistic.
Thats too funny, considering that massive plume of smoke "just over the horizon" which was in almost every video and screenshot.


Models are low-poly and stiffly animated. Everything simply looks dated.
I said from the start - artwork wise, this reminds me VERY much of BF2, the models, the shadows, the style of modelling looks like they've lifted the BF2 art team straight from DICE, now other people are seeing it too.


The early concept art and target renders released for this title are misleading, to say the least.
Qualifies for a lot of people saying "told you so" I think...

Sad news, sad news indeed :(

[MQ-9 Reaper]

confirmed from German Review max 40 Ai in mission editor :(



wow just wow...
If this is true Dragon Rising even fails at being an ersatz of original OFP.

Why such a limit ?! There is no Mission Editor for the console version, the PC version should be free of this kind of limitations :confused:

1 blue tank platoon + 2 blue infantry squads : the unit limit is almost reached, and you still have not put any red force units on the map yet !

A limited ME is really a bad news, I will still try the demo but now I highly doubt I will buy this.

[Zipper5]

40 AI is ridiculous. I would quickly reach the 64 units per side limit that OFP had when making missions. But even then, OFP had 64 units and DR, it's "sequel" has 40? And at least OFP gave you an error box and the ability to change it. How can you change it if the screen just goes... Grey? Unless that's not literally what it does.

DR's technical aspects are WORSE than OFP's. Isn't that kinda the opposite of the purpose of a "sequel"? Though, I still consider OFP's true sequel to be ArmA II, of course.

[DM]

40 AI is ridiculous. I would quickly reach the 64 units per side limit that OFP had when making missions. But even then, OFP had 64 units and DR, it's "sequel" has 40?

[Edit] I thought it was groups, but wasnt 100% sure... So fix my math:

64 groups per side, giving you 3072 units in total. Which is 3032 more than dr.

Not that you could use them ALL ofcourse, since it would become a slideshow, but still...

[kavoven]

OFP hat a 64 groups limit per side

[vasmkd]

That is shocking, only 40 AI.
I can feel another cm anger attack on the site
But i can already imagine the fanboys saying "i think 40 is good, because small battles are better" hahahaha

[echo1]

This is becoming rather comic... So, who wants to take bets on what they are going to kill off next?

[Kayjay]

Thanks to Dawnrazor666 from our forums, we have been shown some actual ranking of OFP2 in two German gamemags.

PCG 77%

Pro:
+ stylish and expensive lighting with vast battlefields
+ lots of weapons
+ compelling campaign
+ terrific sounds

Negative:
-AI comrades have blackouts
-you can complete some missions by using trial and error tactics only
-no quick save
-inconvenient radial menus

conclusio: it's like playing the old Ghost Recon series

Gamestar 78%

Negative:
-no embark and disembarking [animations]
-no vegetation drawn at distance [same clutter technology i guess]
-hostiles are often less demanding
-it hardly feels like playing a team
-vegetation is indestructible
-vehicle controls are woolly [?]
-campaign too short
-armory is just little in use
-less surprises
-some glitches in logics
-AI is sometimes not responding or behaves uncommon
-vehicle fleet is not really in use during campaign
-no cutscenes

Source: http://hx3.de/operation-flashpoint-2-dragon-rising-155/ofp-dr-updates-15809/39/#post268963

Edit: Thanks to Cyborg11 we have intel about the comparison article that can be also found in the current issue of the PCGames

[...]
"Is OFP2 the better Arma2 ?"
The answer is: obviously NO!

[...] But after some missions it becomes plainly clear that OFP2 is everything, but not a real military simulator. [...]

Source: http://hx3.de/community-161/ofp2-keine-konkurrenz-f-r-arma2-17758/34/#post268968

And from an Australian article: lAnticipation rating: we've stopped playing the full version of Arma2 in favour of this. 'nuff said.
some people are so cynical on this thread. Give the game a go! its not even released yet and i dont think the 40 man limit is official and confirmed.
I dont want to take it out on arma, but arma didnt have a smooth beginning either. though i like arma2 its not without its faults and rather large faults at that. Releasing a buggy almost unplayable game is "not on" but doing it twice is unacceptable. I have considered the purchase of arma 2 but after playing it for a while, its giving me some doubts. the seemingly buggy and ignorant ai have something to do with it.

[DM]

And from an Australian article: Anticipation rating: we've stopped playing the full version of Arma2 in favour of this.
And they'll stop playing OFP2 for one of two reasons:
1. 1 week after release when the same 4 "maps" get super dull as 4 vs 4
2. 4 weeks after release when CoD6 (or CoD:MW2) is released, and some real polished fps gameplay can be had.

From your own quote:

"Is OFP2 the better Arma2 ?"
The answer is: obviously NO!

'nuff said


Additionally, welcome to trollsville, population: you. :rolleyes:

[echo1]

And from an Australian article: lAnticipation rating: we've stopped playing the full version of Arma2 in favour of this. 'nuff said.

Ah yes, as if a single quote from an un-named source immediately invalidates reviews from reliable sources...


Give the game a go! its not even released yet and i dont think the 40 man limit is official and confirmed.

Do you buy every game that has a shiny-looking box?


I dont want to take it out on arma, but arma didnt have a smooth beginning either. though i like arma2 its not without its faults and rather large faults at that. Releasing a buggy almost unplayable game is "not on" but doing it twice is unacceptable. I have considered the purchase of arma 2 but after playing it for a while, its giving me some doubts. the seemingly buggy and ignorant ai have something to do with it.

There's a difference between releasing a buggy game and a castrated game - you can usually fix bugs :p

[Kayjay]

hey dm how about NO?!

i was just offering another piece of opinion. is what i said not true? yet the points you proposed all confirmed by cm and truth?! oh my magazine quote is real, i didnt make it up if thats what you were thinking

magazine is atomic their military themed issue. for those that read it.

[vasmkd]

And from an Australian article: lAnticipation rating: we've stopped playing the full version of Arma2 in favour of this. 'nuff said.
some people are so cynical on this thread. Give the game a go! its not even released yet and i dont think the 40 man limit is official and confirmed.
I dont want to take it out on arma, but arma didnt have a smooth beginning either. though i like arma2 its not without its faults and rather large faults at that. Releasing a buggy almost unplayable game is "not on" but doing it twice is unacceptable. I have considered the purchase of arma 2 but after playing it for a while, its giving me some doubts. the seemingly buggy and ignorant ai have something to do with it.

Haha and ur history of 1 post tells me u have been spending all ur time on cm site.
Why should we give the game a go if we don't want to? No point giving handout to CM when we already know this is not the game we want because we are all fans of OFP here and Dragon Rising is not this type of game

Why would we give a game a go when everything they promised turns out false or gets taken out. That game is going downhill, this game is only going uphill
Biggest mistake they made was promote it as sequal to OFP just to try steal BIS fans

[Bush]

Give the game a go! its not even released yet and i dont think the 40 man limit is official and confirmed.
It doesn’t matter if it is officially confirmed or not. That 40 unit’s limit is probably limited to the singleplayer because the multiplayer is confirmed to have a maximum of 32 players with no room for extra AI.

[Kayjay]

well they owned the name, so they named it ofp because they felt that it would be derived from the same spirit or aim that the original ofp used. however i do believe it wasnt the best choice. I have spent alot of time on the cm site well relatively more time there than here to which i hope i will be spending more. by giving it a go i meant that people shouldnt bash the game before its released.

the game is going downhill in the eyes of some people. in which alot of views are only speculation and not confirmed. lol uphill, well that wasnt very hard when u consider going uphill is by clearing a load of bugs. I dont wanna be viewed as an arma hater. i actually wanted to get this game and i still do. but the hour i played proved to be disappointing. and since im here, would u address my concerns?!

has the ai been fixed? they seemed ignorant of my presence when i played!
and will it run smoothly on q9300 and 4870 512mb and 2gbs of ddr3?

thanks

@<hidden> im not sure but i think there is a mode or something for multiplayer in which each player has a 4 man fireteam attached?

[Bush]

@<hidden> im not sure but i think there is a mode or something for multiplayer in which each player has a 4 man fireteam attached?
The console versions have support for up to 8 players with 3 AI each in PvP, that will get you the same amount of units as the PC in PvP (32).
I think the coop only supports 4 or 8 players/AI, the rest (24-28) will be enemy AIs.

[BogdanM]

And from an Australian article: lAnticipation rating: we've stopped playing the full version of Arma2 in favour of this. 'nuff said.

Well good for them but this doesn't mean OFPDR is better just because some guy liked it more. Probably ARMA wasn't his type of game.


some people are so cynical on this thread. Give the game a go! its not even released yet and i dont think the 40 man limit is official and confirmed.
I dont want to take it out on arma, but arma didnt have a smooth beginning either. though i like arma2 its not without its faults and rather large faults at that. Releasing a buggy almost unplayable game is "not on" but doing it twice is unacceptable. I have considered the purchase of arma 2 but after playing it for a while, its giving me some doubts. the seemingly buggy and ignorant ai have something to do with it.

ARMA2 got just the same kind of criticism before and after it was released so why should it be different for OFPDR?


by giving it a go i meant that people shouldnt bash the game before its released.

Like I said a few pages back most of the criticism is about things you can comment on without having played the game because those things are present in other games too.


the game is going downhill in the eyes of some people.
Really? So in your opinion by comparing the feature list that was half a year ago and the one that is now you can see only improvements?


lol uphill, well that wasnt very hard when u consider going uphill is by clearing a load of bugs
Thats because 90% of the reviews said that the main problem for ARMA2 are the bugs, so by fixing the bugs the game is going uphill.

[vasmkd]

BogdanM pretty much has answered my reply on uphill, downhill

I'm smart enough to work out these things will stop my gameplay been what i want it to be and the major let downs for me are:

40 AI limits, i want massive battles and small ones
can't use whole island 2x2km. thats too small for me
PvP mode sucks for me
only a few vehicles, the more the merrier
on 2 factions to play as
Not a fan of the ingame menu's
no fix-winged aircraft
no civillians
no animals
not much cities

Sorry but ARMA2 fills my needs much better as a OFP style game

[DM]

not much cities
so far there hasnt been any proof of more than 5-6 buildings together in one area, let alone a village or "city" :j:

[froggyluv]

40 Ai... Damn this is like watching a marathoner struggling to finish his last mile after getting beaten and mugged and is now pulling himself foward by his wobbly hands.

Painful.

I've never seen such a barrage of last minute 'announcements' after years of hype, a huge developing crew and fat bankroll behind it come into the home stretch batting 0 for 20.

I guess a part of me still believed some of the hype and figured there is going to be some worthwhile content here even if not comparable to the vast scale of the OFP/Arma series but as it stands now, I just don't see any compelling reason for a PC Mil-Sim fan to buy this.

Although utterly baffling, I guess Walker's math was correct :rolleyes:

I vaguely recall one of CM's moderators coming here declaring "DR is able to pull off things Arma2 could only dream of..."

Must have been a pretty bad dream.

[NodUnit]

will it run smoothly on q9300 and 4870 512mb and 2gbs of ddr3?

This of course depends on what settings you use and depends on your definition of smooth, 30, 40, 60 fps, etc. If you are thinking absolute highest then I'd say...probably not.

[4 IN 1]

40 Ai... Damn this is like watching a marathoner struggling to finish his last mile after getting beaten and mugged and is now pulling himself foward by his wobbly hands.

Painful.

I've never seen such a barrage of last minute 'announcements' after years of hype, a huge developing crew and fat bankroll behind it come into the home stretch batting 0 for 20.

I guess a part of me still believed some of the hype and figured there is going to be some worthwhile content here even if not comparable to the vast scale of the OFP/Arma series but as it stands now, I just don't see any compelling reason for a PC Mil-Sim fan to buy this.

Although utterly baffling, I guess Walker's math was correct :rolleyes:

I vaguely recall one of CM's moderators coming here declaring "DR is able to pull off things Arma2 could only dream of..."

Must have been a pretty bad dream.
wel, they do get armour system instead of hitpoints in ARMA2(well atless thats what they tell us to be)

[BangTail]

wel, they do get armour system instead of hitpoints in ARMA2(well atless thats what they tell us to be)

That's about the only compelling advantage I've heard so far.

The fact is, this bait and switch is pathetic. Every day, more and more reasons to stay away from this train wreck called DR are revealed.

What was originally promised is significantly < what seems to be releasing in 2 weeks.

Eth

[Deadfast]

Call me paranoid, but until I see an actual proof of any sort of advanced damage system I won't believe it :(

[DM]

Call me paranoid, but until I see an actual proof of any sort of advanced damage system I won't believe it :(

Second, it would seem really really odd, given the reported wooly vehicle physics (from a racing engine no less) occasionally dumb ai, and the rather basic looking thermal (so far no proof of metabolism for people or heat-up/cool-down times for vehicles, just a "omg everything is white" shader) to then go and have a massively detailed penetration system.

Hope for the best, expect a glorified hitpoints system. :(

[froggyluv]

Call me paranoid, but until I see an actual proof of any sort of advanced damage system I won't believe it :(

Yeah right, at this point if I were CM I'd be spotlighting the hell out of that feature as just about everything coming down the news pike lately has been a downer.


wel, they do get armour system instead of hitpoints in ARMA2(well atless thats what they tell us to be)

If that lives up I will concede them that. Frankly, thats pretty small potatoes compared to what they initially offered. Do I wish BI had this implemented -hellz yes, but nice_boat has got some pretty promising scripts going on with this and although developer produced is always preferred, at least we know what tools we have to work with.

[BangTail]

Yeah right, at this point if I were CM I'd be spotlighting the hell out of that feature as just about everything coming down the news pike lately has been a downer.



If that lives up I will concede them that. Frankly, thats pretty small potatoes compared to what they initially offered. Do I wish BI had this implemented -hellz yes, but nice_boat has got some pretty promising scripts going on with this and although developer produced is always preferred, at least we know what tools we have to work with.

I was going to say, no doubt someone is working on it for A2.

Eth

[Hans Ludwig]

This is what to expect in the coming weeks from new users of the console/COD kiddie persuasion.


hi,
does anybody else want more than two pistols, I am fine with the ammount of all the other guns but i would exepect at least 4 pistols.
any thaughts? and dont flame please

LINK (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381601)

[Heatseeker]

No wonder they didnt bother making civilians and animals.. a handfull of civilians would have too much of an impact on their "War on a scale never before seen on any console." (except for OFP:Elite that is).

Can only command 3 units.
Can only play online in a 2 X 2 Km box.
Can only place 40 npc's in the editor..

Sounds like a massive downgrade from OFP:R and OFP:elite.
Theres still a few days before release, can DR get any worse?

[Sanctuary]

I can't see how it is an easier way to get more sale to compete commercially in the same genre on console and PC as the upcoming and guaranteed huge sellers COD:Modern Warfare 2" and the next Battlefield (that will certainly eat their competitions for breakfast).

And let's remember it is a market that additionally already feature dozen of clones of those games, it seems more logical to me that competiting in the infantry milsim genre in which only BIS is releasing such games would mean less numerous competitors to beat you on your expected sales.

[BangTail]

I can't see how it is an easier way to get more sale to compete commercially in the same genre on console and PC as the upcoming and guaranteed huge sellers COD:Modern Warfare 2" and the next Battlefield (that will certainly eat their competitions for breakfast).

And let's remember it is a market that additionally already feature dozen of clones of those games, it seems more logical to me that competiting in the infantry milsim genre in which only BIS is releasing such games would mean less numerous competitors to beat you on your expected sales.

Couldn't agree more. Going up against MW 2 is foolhardy. They are probably arrogant enough to believe their game has a chance but if MW 2 is anywhere near as successful as the first one, CM/DR might consider booking passage on The

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/failboatknowsfailure.jpg

Eth

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 PM ----------

Hmmm, looks like the backlash movement is becoming more vocal.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381566

God forbid anyone be allowed to voice a contrary opinion.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5654614&postcount=52

Priceless :D

[Deadfast]

Hmmm, looks like the backlash movement is becoming more vocal.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381566

And Viiiiiiiiiiiiiiiipah is there within a post or 2 to try and discredit the guy. And, as usual, Hellios has closed the thread. God forbid anyone be allowed to voice a contrary opinion. The "mods" over there are atrocious.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5654614&postcount=52

Priceless :D

Heh, somebody posts a negative opinion, Viiper comes in to start the flame and then leaves.
Gotta love his moderating style :)

[froggyluv]

[/COLOR]Hmmm, looks like the backlash movement is becoming more vocal.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381566

And Viiiiiiiiiiiiiiiipah is there within a post or 2 to try and discredit the guy. And, as usual, Hellios has closed the thread. God forbid anyone be allowed to voice a contrary opinion. The "mods" over there are atrocious.

[
Priceless :D

Lol! I was following that thread and knew it would be closed ASAP due to it's excessive use of 3+ syllable words.

[Heatseeker]

Heh, somebody posts a negative opinion, Viiper comes in to start the flame and then leaves.
Gotta love his moderating style :)
Theres no need to post and discuss that kind of stuff here, wright? ;) .

[Deadfast]

Why not?
He's registered here and before all the negative info started to leak out he also used to post. There is a good chance he'll read this too :)

[Heatseeker]

Why not?
He's registered here and before all the negative info started to leak out he also used to post. There is a good chance he'll read this too :)

I think we should stick to DR discussion in here, keep it clean ;) .

[Zipper5]

Why does everyone immediately call him a troll in that thread? No where in his post can I see anything that can be deemed as trolling. I guess anyone that says anything negative about the game is branded a troll by that "community" now. The last few threads I've read which criticize the game have all shown that trend.

One thing's for sure, if DR does turn out to be a good game I am not involving myself in that "community". It's the worst I've seen in a very, very long time.

[echo1]

Why not?
He's registered here and before all the negative info started to leak out he also used to post. There is a good chance he'll read this too :)


Any personal attacks or discussion about the moderators over at CM are forbidden. If you got a problem with them, sort it over there.

That's why :p

[BogdanM]

I'm starting to believe that you have more freedom of speech in North Korea than on the CM forums. The OP had a polite and on the subject post so I don't see any signs of trolling. And its disrespectful that after all the issues he addressed in the post the only reply from CM(Helios) was "To answer the OP, yes we are all proud of how the game has turned out." which actually has nothing to do with the OP questions/complains.

But it doesn't really matter because this thread was just another example which proves that hardcore(brainwashed) CM fans don't even read the first post before calling the OP a troll. They don't want to hear anything bad about OFPDR/CM regardless if its true or not. So its pretty much useless to post anything negative about CM since it will only be ignored and the thread closed.

[Maddmatt]

The 40 AI limit means... 2 squads per side? :butbut:
This game would have been better if they when with a small Ghost Recon type scale in the first place (and no I'm not talking GRAW).

But it's not all bad if units can be spawned dynamically during the mission. Can they? Only way to save it.

Maybe the news is wrong and the limit is higher? Nearly every mission in OFP and the ArmA games has many more units than that.

[Heatseeker]

I suppose they might make the a.i. spawn in diferent objective areas or as reinforcements wich still isnt any good since it kills the possibility or creating real time, non linear missions.

If DR cant handle atleast 40 a.i. units per side its a 100%:
http://www.failpictures.com/photos/2310_failgull.jpg

Its just too limited..

[rundll.exe]

Lol how are they going to make missions for that? Lets say you decide to make an enemy camp (20 men), and a few AA positions around (3x4=12 men), with patrols in between (3x6 = 18). then you already need 50 AI, and thats only the enmy side...

This cant be true. But If it wasnt, the devs would have stated otherwise, right?

[Shataan]

I am not sure if I`ll get FP 2 or not. I love ARMA 2. A few of my buds are lacking the patience to wait for update performance/patch fixes. But imho the best is yet to come for ARMA 2. FP 1 was nowheere near as cool as it was 6 months after release and beyond.

FP 2 LOOKS good in screens. A few of the animations look copmplete azz to me. Like how when you see crouching soldiers moving forward, they look like they gotta take a crap. Or how the weap swings unnaturally gamelike when you are running in the 1st person view. Now too bad FP 2 doesn`t sport ARMA 2s awesome motion captured movements.

I use ALL the movements available in ARMA 2, and most games. Not liking how there is no lean feature in FP 2, and I heard there is no sprint?? Not to mention, from what I have seen so far, for me it lacks the FEEL of FP. ARMA 2 has the FP feel. When I watch vids of FP 2, I am reminded more so of COD/BF for some odd reason.

But I will try the demo. I can see tons of ARMA 2 players jumping ship to FP 2, cause ARMA 2 wasn`t perfect right outta the gates. For players these days, even tho they prolly got lacking and unoptimized rigs(even the highend uber rig owners), they expect a fast gameplay experience and to be able to turn up=Max all the bells and whistles. They just wanna play, and have no patience for waiting, for optimizations... mods etc.

ARMA 2 (accept for the still much needed bug/performance fixes) does it all right for me. I will try FP 2s demo, but it has to MOVE right. FEEL right, LOOK right, and SOUND right. And by golly it had better FEEL like Flashpoint once it boots up. I don`t want COD, don`t want anything resembling BF. Flashpoint is more than the just name on the box.

Anyone remember Novalogics DF 1 and DF 2? Well, Nova slaps DF on everything they released ever since, but NOT 1 game after DF 2 deserved to have the DF logo on the box. It`d be sad if FP DR turned out to be FlashCOD. Or BattlePoint.

ARMA 2 however is a win/win for me. ;p

[ultimateflashpoint]

How many people here agree with me that DR is going to gimp COD4 and turn COD6 into whipped feces?:):D;)

[maturin]

Hehe. Just read the 'only 40?' thread at CM. A few poor beknighted souls are arguing that you only have small engagements a few dozen to a side in modern conflicts anyway.

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Hehe. Just read the 'only 40?' thread at CM. A few poor beknighted souls are arguing that you only have small engagements a few dozen to a side in modern conflicts anyway.

Uh, in some cases, sure...but most engagements involve at least a platoon size element on one side, not counting support (if any). Most of the time, platoons are > 40, so I'm not sure what they're getting at.

[])rStrangelove]

As long as i see all 40 soldiers on screen i don't mind - that's enough to make you feel like you're in a big battlescene. The illusion is all that counts imo.

COD4 had some pretty intense street combat scenes and i don't think i saw even 30 ppl, so 40 should be enough to get the right atmosphere. Spawning is ok for me as long as i don't see it. You can't be sure how many ppl are hiding in a building if you haven't entered and cleared it.

[ohara]

I think you dont understand basic priciple. If you have persistant world, you can solve problems in game by many ways (if you kill enemy in battle in village you will not force to him on road) in case you create enemy on flight, you close all that posibilites that are interesting on ofp concept. It could be atmospheric like film, but no space for tactics and creativity of player, you are pushed to be rat in labyrinth.

[NoRailgunner]

Guess that mainstream/casual players are bit overchallenged by open world scenarios and simulation of things. Perhaps those people simply dont like to think out of their CQB boxes, tactics and huge entertaining effects. Kind of Americanization isnt it? ;)

[Armin2]

Hi,

Gamestar (large[st] German PC gaming magazine) reviewed OFP2. The test is not yet available but some information were leaked and posted on ofp2.info:

http://www.operationflashpoint2.info/news.php

- the engine obviously cannot handle more than 40 different units at a time (freeze)
- overall score: 78%
- most aspects were 8/10, story 4/10
- campaign is boring and way too short
- excellent hardcore mode
- excellent AI, almost like real human players, sometimes stupid
- vegetation not destructable
- strong editor (whatever that means compared to AA2)

So I guess OFP2 will not at all have the possibilities of AA2 but it might have better gameplay, might contain less bugs and might be really fun to play. Realism depends on the current setting. Still it needs a community to offer enough content after release.

The 40 unit limit could be a bug (possibly fixed when released) or could be a real limit. Then I don't know how the large map could be used to full extent. 40 units are just embarrasing.

*edit*
I forgot something: OFP2 has excellent framerates and highly optimised graphics.

[Mr_Centipede]

Hi,
OFP2 has excellent framerates and highly optimised graphics.

Not surprised really. Probabaly because not many thing is happening in the background...

[Armin2]

No it's just console compatible. The graphics are more like Battlefield than AA2...

But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[BangTail]

No it's just console compatible. The graphics are more like Battlefield than AA2...

But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

NO, it's because there is nowhere near as much CPU usage.

They aren't the same type of game. Is that bad? Not necessarily if you like BF2/GRAW etc etc etc.

Eth

[Armin2]

I doubt that. Why would a game have such a large world when it's just empty and dead in missions.

[Mr_Centipede]

I doubt that. Why would a game have such a large world when it's just empty and dead in missions.

That sir, is a very damn good question...

[BangTail]

I doubt that. Why would a game have such a large world when it's just empty and dead in missions.

What "large" world are you on about? I guess you aren't that up to date. 40 units max is confirmed, you hardly need a large world for that. And 2x2 KM might be big by console standards but it's not very big compared to A2. You can fly across that in a minute or less in a Helo. It's also the very obvious reason why there are no fixed wing aircraft.

Eth

[Bush]

Found this in the DR forum:


With regards the rumoured 40 entity limit for the editor, that information is incorrect and below are some bullet points to help clear up the matter:

* 63 entities can be held in memory at all times
* These entities can be anywhere on the island
* These can be vehicles or soldiers
* Flashpoint uses spawning extensively to add and remove soldiers and vehicles from the world and replace dead soldiers. Basically this means that you can spawn and despawn units, so if you wanted to have guys disappear because they’re too far away from the battle or not needed anymore, then you can and free up the spaces they used.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381767

[Armin2]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2751495802_38924d8bb2.jpg

it's not just 4km², it's more like chernaurus

where did you red 2x2 km ? that would be like.... utes ?

[Deadfast]

Found this in the DR forum:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381767

Ah, so it's not 40, but 63.

That's far better :)

[Bush]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2751495802_38924d8bb2.jpg

it's not just 4km², it's more like chernaurus

where did you red 2x2 km ? that would be like.... utes ?
In PvP you can only use a maximum of 4km² area.
In coop you can use the whole island but you will be limited by the tether so you can’t have people on different places on the island.

[BangTail]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2751495802_38924d8bb2.jpg

it's not just 4km², it's more like chernaurus

where did you red 2x2 km ? that would be like.... utes ?

It's nothing like the size of Chernarus in terms of what you can ACTUALLY do, you are seriously misinformed. I suggest you do some research before making anymore comments. It has all kinds of limitations.

Eth

[ricbar89]

What "large" world are you on about? I guess you aren't that up to date. 40 units max is confirmed, you hardly need a large world for that. And 2x2 KM might be big by console standards but it's not very big compared to A2. You can fly across that in a minute or less in a Helo. It's also the very obvious reason why there are no fixed wing aircraft.

Eth

Strange.

[BangTail]

Strange.

Ok so now we hear it is 63. 40, 63 who cares, it's not anything like A2.

Eth

PS : 40 WAS the general consensus on the CM forums up until yesterday AFAIK.

[BogdanM]

I'm really interested on how the mission editor is supposed to work, cause I can't imagine it working the same way ARMA editor works but with a 40 AI limit, although from videos it seem to very similar. Even if there are spawn points for the AI in the campaign, it doesn't seem to be a solution for user made missions.

If I'll get the game the first thing I'll do is to recreate the battle scene from the second CGI trailer. I'll be really impressed if it will run smoothly even though that scene was something like an medium sized battle for ARMA2.

[Armin2]

didn't know ofp2 was that limited in content, still it was expectable as it runs on a xbox 360 which has very limited hardware capabilities

so in multiplayer you only have 4km² and it is impossible to for example start at a base, than fly 5 km and drop in warzone...

[ricbar89]

Ok so now we hear it is 63. 40, 63 who cares, it's not anything like A2.

Eth

PS : 40 WAS the general consensus on the CM forums up until yesterday AFAIK.

But that isnt confirmed, why is everything here taken as confirmed when really it isnt?

[BangTail]

didn't know ofp2 was that limited in content, still it was expectable as it runs on a xbox 360 which has very limited hardware capabilities

so in multiplayer you only have 4km² and it is impossible to for example start at a base, than fly 5 km and drop in warzone...

That's what I understood. There are so many different stories on those forums, it's hard to know whats what.

[Deadfast]

still it was expectable as it runs on a xbox 360 which has very limited hardware capabilities

Same limit applies for PC version...

[BangTail]

But that isnt confirmed, why is everything here taken as confirmed when really it isnt?

It was the general consenus up until VERY recently and as I said 63 (Which comes from the head mod), isn't really any better.

Eth

[ricbar89]

It was the general consenus up until VERY recently and as I said 63, isn't really any better.

Eth

General Consenus =/= Confirmed

Did you not read my post.

[BangTail]

General Consenus =/= Confirmed

Did you not read my post.

Did you read Helios' post? 63 is CONFIRMED.

Eth

[Deadfast]

It was the general consenus up until VERY recently and as I said 63 (Which comes from the head mod), isn't really any better.

Eth

I'm also very interested about the actual details.

Helios said that soldiers and vehicles count as entities.
However do vehicle and its crew count as 1 entity or are they separate (1 Abrams = 1 entity OR 1 Abrams + 3 crewmen = 4 entities)?

Do static objects (sandbags) count as entities?

[ricbar89]

Did you read Helios' post? 63 is CONFIRMED. And 63 is naff.

Eth

Im talking about the bit i quoted, but ill quote it again for you to see.


What "large" world are you on about? I guess you aren't that up to date. 40 units max is confirmed, you hardly need a large world for that. And 2x2 KM might be big by console standards but it's not very big compared to A2. You can fly across that in a minute or less in a Helo. It's also the very obvious reason why there are no fixed wing aircraft.

Eth

[Mr_Centipede]

so 63... 23 more than 40. Am I suppose to be excited now? Another clarification needed, that is 63men or 63 groups of men? if its the latter then, 63x4 (times 4 because 1 fireteam = 4 men) that would means 252 men. so is it men or groups of men?

[BangTail]

I'm also very interested about the actual details.

Helios said that soldiers and vehicles count as entities.
However do vehicle and its crew count as 1 entity or are they separate?

Do static objects (sandbags) count as entities?

If static objects count and/or each crew member counts as 1 entity (out of a possible 63), that's extremely limited. If not, it's still limited, but not as badly.

To me, "entity" says unit as in each soldier.

Eth

[Deadfast]

so 63... 23 more than 40. Am I suppose to be excited now? Another clarification needed, that is 63men or 63 groups of men? if its the latter then, 63x4 (times 4 because 1 fireteam = 4 men) that would means 252 men. so is it men or groups of men?

Well, if it was groups I'm pretty sure Helios would make that clear.
So I fear the worse.

[BangTail]

Im talking about the bit i quoted, but ill quote it again for you to see.

I already corrected that, why are you going on about it?

Eth

---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------


Well, if it was groups I'm pretty sure Helios would make that clear.
So I fear the worse.

Ditto. My money is on each soldier counting as 1 "entity" out of a possible 63. If they could have bragged to the contrary, they would have. It's in line with the other restrictions.

Eth

[Eble]

anyone interested in the mission editor can download the PDF info file here:

ftp://downloads.codemasters.com/helpfile/ofdr_edit_help.zip

and apologies about the 40 units thing was onyl reporting that the German review couldn't place more than 40 units in the editor, so ita huge 63 units now glad they cleared that up :)

what does 1 x tank count as cos it has 3/4/5 Ai in it right?

[Von_Paulus]

1 entity must be equal to one soldier. A vehicle with a crew of 3 will count probably as 4. So if you want to add more entities you've to spawn and despawn entities all the time. The missions will have to be highly script.

But I do agree with Ohara. That's the issue.

If you have persistant world, you can solve problems in game by many ways (if you kill enemy in battle in village you will not force to him on road) in case you create enemy on flight, you close all that posibilites that are interesting on ofp concept. It could be atmospheric like film, but no space for tactics and creativity of player, you are pushed to be rat in labyrinth.

[BangTail]

anyone interested in the mission editor can download the PDF info file here:

ftp://downloads.codemasters.com/helpfile/ofdr_edit_help.zip

and apologies about the 40 units thing was onyl reporting that the German review couldn't place more than 40 units in the editor, so ita huge 63 units now glad they cleared that up :)

It's all good mate. There is a lot of misinformation floating around concerning this game.

All will be revealed soon enough.

Eth

[Mr_Centipede]

About ohara quote... can someone rephrase that? It doesnt sink in my brain...

[Deadfast]

I'm also very interested about the actual details.

Helios said that soldiers and vehicles count as entities.
However do vehicle and its crew count as 1 entity or are they separate (1 Abrams = 1 entity OR 1 Abrams + 3 crewmen = 4 entities)?

Do static objects (sandbags) count as entities?

Browsing the editor help, it is indeed the 2nd:


To add a crew to a particular vehicle you will need to place crew and vehicle entities

Therefore a fully manned Abrams will cost you 4 entities.

[kavoven]

This game has some kind of strategy game atmosphere...

"All right, I took the snipers and the MG guy, that makes 6 points, when I take 4 tanks I still have 41 points left...mhmm"

I predict epic new "mission battles". Each side gets half of the units and fights for survival :cool:

[Von_Paulus]

About ohara quote... can someone rephrase that? It doesnt sink in my brain...

I think he is referring to the game concept, the difference between a true open world and a illusion world created with "tricks" (scripted) and how this can affect and limit the gameplay.

[Mr.Wolf]

Guys, did you read entire Helios's post?



63 entities can be held in memory at all times

These entities can be anywhere on the island

These can be vehicles or soldiers

Flashpoint uses spawning extensively to add and remove soldiers and vehicles from the world and replace dead soldiers. Basically this means that you can spawn and despawn units, so if you wanted to have guys disappear because they’re too far away from the battle or not needed anymore, then you can and free up the spaces they used.

You can set up vehicles such as tanks with "virtual crews" so that the tank and "virtual crew" are classed as just one entity eg. a vehicle with no observable units mounted like the tanks can have a virtual crew which only counts as 1 entity and has the effect of a driver/commander/gunner combination

Only soldiers and vehicles count as entities, meaning adding things like sandbags, barbed wire, gun emplacements, concrete walls, do not count towards the entity total.


I don't think this limit will be big problem...This game has a lot of more important issues.

[Kayjay]

This game has some kind of strategy game atmosphere...

"All right, I took the snipers and the MG guy, that makes 6 points, when I take 4 tanks I still have 41 points left...mhmm"

I predict epic new "mission battles". Each side gets half of the units and fights for survival :cool:

You didnt read it properly

[Mr_Centipede]

thanks paulus. not quite get it though, how does it affect gameplay? but it's okey. offtopic anyway.

ontopic. CM mission editor is really great (the help that is) hope BIS can produce something like that someday. quick browse, they have RTE built in.. called LiveLink. The feels seems a bit like OFP:CWC. check the waypoint creation. it's not necessary a bad thing though. my impression is the editor is quite easy to use (got briefing editor as well), and seems quite powerfull... but unfortunately, the game itself is very limiting... 63 soldiers? man... so much can be done with this editor, yet so little.

sad really

[ricbar89]

I already corrected that, why are you going on about it?

I didnt realise i was, i simply pointed out that people take things that arent confirmed as confirmed, you were the one arguing with it.

[Deadfast]

You didnt read it properly

No, the last 2 points were edited it ;)

[whisper]

You didnt read it properly

He did
every entity, crew included, counts as 1. Empty vehicles count as 1 also.
that's probably why the german review couldn't get more than 40 units on map, they probably already placed 23 static entities like empty vehicles, and such.

to quote the OFP-DR Editor Manual :
You can have a maximum of 63 entities enabled at one time within a mission, this includes the player character, AI soldiers and vehicle entities. Empty or virtual vehicles count as one entity. You can spawn and despawn entities at various points in your mission, but that total should never exceed 63.

[BangTail]

I didnt realise i was, i simply pointed out that people take things that arent confirmed as confirmed, you were the one arguing with it.

No, 40 was wrong, 63 was confirmed. I'm not arguing with anyone. You don't seem to have a point to make save repeating the same thing over and over.

Move on :rolleyes:

Eth

[BogdanM]

Guys, did you read entire Helios's post?

The spawn/despawn ability fixes some issues while creating others. For example if you create a mission with simultaneous battles in different locations, if you are flying a helicopter and want to fly from one location to the other, whats going to happen with the troops that are fighting after you left the first location? Will they just disappear? Shouldn't they continue fighting even though you are not next to them.

But the "virtual crew" is a well thought solution to the problem.

[PuFu]

it is 63 entities in total then yeah?

from what i could gather, 1 entity = 1 soldier or 1 manned vehicle, or 1 empty vehicle...strange indeed.

[TimRiceSE]

The spawn/despawn ability fixes some issues while creating others. For example if you create a mission with simultaneous battles in different locations, if you are flying a helicopter and want to fly from one location to the other, whats going to happen with the troops that are fighting after you left the first location? Will they just disappear? Shouldn't they continue fighting even though you are not next to them.

But the "virtual crew" is a well thought solution to the problem.

Isnt it kind of a moot point since you wont really be flying anywhere very far....

[Kayjay]

Isnt it kind of a moot point since you wont really be flying anywhere very far....

if you are referring to multiplayer mapsize then probably. but this is the mission editor?

[BogdanM]

Isnt it kind of a moot point since you wont really be flying anywhere very far....

I'm talking about missions made in the editor, where the entire map is available.

[TimRiceSE]

Is there not some kind of constraint for non-MP mission areas too?

[Von_Paulus]

every entity, crew included, counts as 1. Empty vehicles count as 1 also.
that's probably why the german review couldn't get more than 40 units on map, they probably already placed 23 static entities like empty vehicles, and such.

Yes that must be what happened.

With a 64 limit, even with spawning and despawning, I'm sure this will also limit the kind of missions you can create.

[pchaxor]

I have pre-ordered the OFP2 game. (Since it is actually being released in the USA *cough*) I will be fair in evaluataing it, however the lack of TrackIR support for Infantry and not being able to freelook as infantry is very limiting and a poor decision by CM. This scores big points for ArmA 2. Also many other limitations just makes the game sound like a BF2 wanna be instead of a combat simulation game.

I do know that there will be freelook and TrackIR support for vehicles and aircraft, as limited as it may be. I also know that OFP2 "should" need less system resources to run and is "supposed" to run smoother than ArmA 2. I don't have any issues with ArmA 2, so this game should run super smooth.

[echo1]

I'm not sure if it has been raised here, but I'm pretty sure that 63 limit applies to both allied and enemy units, meaning that the largest battles you can have are about 20-40 units per side, which is a bit limiting alright.

And I don't think that spawning thing really excuses it, as has been pointed out before, it prevent there being open ended and large scaled battles if you have to move from point to point to make sure the mission works properly. I wouldn't be surprised if the spawning thing wasn't used all that much because of potential playability bugs if people manage to not trigger spawning.

[Bush]

Maybe someone could translate this review or at least give us some highlights:
http://www.eurogamer.cz/articles/operation-flashpoint-2-recenze

It would be quite interesting to read as it got only 4/10.

[Mr.Wolf]

Bush: Try google translate:).
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=cs&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurogamer.cz%2Farticles%2Foperation-flashpoint-2-recenze&sl=cs&tl=en&history_state0=

According to reviewer, it's very very very hard, even harder than Arma. He also talks about some badly placed checkpoints and suiside acting of AI partners.

But also it's without serious bugs, it's very well optimised and goodlooking. I think he criticises only difficulty ballancing.

[Zipper5]

Well, if he's only criticizing that, it must be utterly terrible to justify giving it 4/10.

[Richey79]

He said he would have given it 8/10 if it weren't for the difficulty level, even on 'normal' ( i.e. easy ).

Mind you, his point of reference is to say that even players who can finish COD on the tougher difficulty levels will find the difficulty level impossible.

Overall, ironically, it's probably the most attractive sounding review so far for me; sounds like he really spent some time playing it.

Worst aspects are that he says the missions are heavily reliant on scripting (they would be with the 60 'entity' limit), the friendly AI are pretty poor, and the mission designers have relied on cheap tricks, like spawning enemies behind the player.

[Zipper5]

Well, it's a bit odd that he'd lower the score for an advertised "military simulator" (we all DR is far from that) for being "too difficult" unless it's hilariously impossible.

[froggyluv]

and the mission designers have relied on cheap tricks, like spawning enemies behind the player.

Spawning enemies is a huge no-no. The sole reason why after a few hours of COD 4 I quit the game for good. How can you possibly play tactical -scouting out your objective area, placing your squad in their appropriate positions- when enemies can appear out of thin air. Arrgh, I hope this is not true or else, absolute dealbreaker!

[Deadfast]

Well, it's a bit odd that he'd lower the score for an advertised "military simulator" (we all DR is far from that) for being "too difficult" unless it's hilariously impossible.

He said a 46 minute mission took him the whole day to finish and that it wasn't entertaining.

To be honest I have the feeling it wasn't his type of game :D

[maturin]

So the island is long and thin? That's sort of a bad choice, imho. It looks better on a sheet of paper, but in a video game you want a big map to feel big, and Chernarus-like blobs of terrain are the way to go. If you have too many defining landmarks and barriers, the map can get compartmentalized for gameplay, even if it can look more interesting at times.

[Derk Yall]

I Think also.

The way he wrote the review it seams more like an spoiler, then objective review. He also complain that it is difficult, because the fight are on long distance. I found this as an review from an CoD player, nothing very objective.

[Clavicula_nox4817]

I have pre-ordered the OFP2 game. (Since it is actually being released in the USA *cough*) I will be fair in evaluataing it, however the lack of TrackIR support for Infantry and not being able to freelook as infantry is very limiting and a poor decision by CM. This scores big points for ArmA 2. Also many other limitations just makes the game sound like a BF2 wanna be instead of a combat simulation game.

I do know that there will be freelook and TrackIR support for vehicles and aircraft, as limited as it may be. I also know that OFP2 "should" need less system resources to run and is "supposed" to run smoother than ArmA 2. I don't have any issues with ArmA 2, so this game should run super smooth.

Have you had problems finding Arma 2 in the US? I just purchased mine yesterday from Best Buy.

[TheSun]

Yeah, i have the same feeling. He was praising the lanscape and viewdistance but there really isn't anything spectacular on those screens. Like on this one:
http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/7/8/5/9/0/4/ss_preview_OFPDG28.jpg.jpg

[Fudgeblood]

Yeah, i have the same feeling. He was praising the lanscape and viewdistance but there really isn't anything spectacular on those screens. Like on this one:
http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/7/8/5/9/0/4/ss_preview_OFPDG28.jpg.jpg As a PC game that's nothing special, but look at it as a console gamer and it's marvelous.

[MehMan]

Too much brown.

It's as they took this comic as a guide:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=224

[Shataan]

After watching a few more gameplay vids, it is looking like FP DR is a no sale for me. It does look like it will be really popular with the XBox 360 crowd. But feelwise it is not doing it for me. I`ll stick with ARMA 2..... and the impending Xpacks.

[pchaxor]

Have you had problems finding Arma 2 in the US? I just purchased mine yesterday from Best Buy.

I purchased my copy when it was first released from Metaboli.
Since it took BIS waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long to find a US publisher, I just gave up thinking of getting an actual US published copy.
I will now just wait for it to be in the bargain bin at Walmart for $20 and only buy that to actually have a hard copy to play 10 years from now. LOL
(I like this version better anyways since I don't need a DVD spinning in my drive)

I did quite a bit of research on OFP2 and think it will be fun in the multiplayer world for a few weeks and then back to ArmA 2 I will go.
I am not bashing OFP2 (yet), but I am keeping my expactations to a realistic level so I don't feel completely bent over. LOL

[Eble]

I purchased my copy when it was first released from Metaboli.
Since it took BIS waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long to find a US publisher, I just gave up thinking of getting an actual US published copy. I will now just wait for it to be in the bargain bin at Walmart for $20 and only buy that to actually have a hard copy to play 10 years from now. LOL
(I like this version better anyways since I don't need a DVD spinning in my drive)

I did quite a bit of research on OFP2 and think it will be fun in the multiplayer world for a few weeks and then back to ArmA 2 I will go.
I am not bashing OFP2 (yet), but I am keeping my expactations to a realistic level so I don't feel completely bent over. LOL


If your buying OFP-DR for PC beware no dedicated server files ship with the game... So MP will be host dependent, so no 32 player servers to start with etc.

I'm getting it for the PC, hopefully some dedicated server files are released quick after release else MP will be a flash in the pan experience.

[pchaxor]

Good to know. I am sure after a few days they will have to do something to keep the forums from filling with complaints. (probably shut them down for "maintanance" - haha) So I think even a few days of Single player wont kill anyone, but I am truely a MP kinda person and enjoy some good tactical combat with "like" players. (AI just seemn to EZ in most cases)

We will see.
I also have a PS3 that has some empty space on the HDD, perhaps if the PC copy is good enough and the Console gets some good reviews...
Yeah ... If the PC version sucks I will just eBay it and try to get some of my $$ back and write CM off as a lost cause.
We will see... if it is better than BF2 or even has modding capabilities; chances are the community will make it "worth playing".
Yeah .. We will see. Ill shad up about it for now.

[Eble]

Good to know. I am sure after a few days they will have to do something to keep the forums from filling with complaints. (probably shut them down for "maintanance" - haha) So I think even a few days of Single player wont kill anyone, but I am truely a MP kinda person and enjoy some good tactical combat with "like" players. (AI just seemn to EZ in most cases)

We will see.
I also have a PS3 that has some empty space on the HDD, perhaps if the PC copy is good enough and the Console gets some good reviews...
Yeah ... If the PC version sucks I will just eBay it and try to get some of my $$ back and write CM off as a lost cause.
We will see... if it is better than BF2 or even has modding capabilities; chances are the community will make it "worth playing".
Yeah .. We will see. Ill shad up about it for now.


Also if you like mods etc (not missions) also beware the community manager confirmed he has to speak to the dev who would look after any tools etc (he's on holiday) before confirming 'any' mod tools would be released.

Nothing is confirmed as of yet.....

[pchaxor]

Well without the mod tools the OFP2 community will die within a year.
Hopefully CM sees past the initial sales and wants to actually compete with BIS. If not they may as well just change their name to EA. (1 Time Sale Champions!)

[Mr_Centipede]

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381825

conspiracy theorist at work over there. some one needed to remind them that ARMA2 also suffer the same bad review (from czech tiscaligames and the germans) and the same denial reactions from fans...

[Praelium]

There's a difference between being realistic and frustrating. If OFP:DR is spawning to many enemies, to power enemies (tanks), or spawning the enemies in spots that gives the player a strong disadvantage, then it'll be frustrating. Otherwise, I couldn't imagine that the 4/10 score is justified.

[DM]

Oh man, I just read that whole thread and couldnt stop laughing.

This guy summed it up pretty well I think:


ofcourse a negative review must be fake, or some horrendously stupid person wrote it, or they "misunderstood" the game right? Yet if it was a 10/10 it would be hailed as God's word straight from the source...

[Zipper5]

Lol, I can't believe some of the morons in that thread.
One even said this, and I think he was being completely serious:

another consipracy ....payed off by ArmA 2 Developers off course, just couldnt give it a 0 because thats too suspicious.
Yeah, right, because BIS, with their extremely limited income compared to other developers, would waste money to pay off a reviewer to make their competitor game look bad. Maybe CM would do that, but not BIS.

And why is everyone relating all bad thing said about the game from the Czech Republic to BIS? Jesus what a shitty community they have...

[jblackrupert]

Seems one of the mods (Shaz73) on the CM forum got spanked for piracy.
someone found his requesting leaked copies of OFP2 on a piracy board.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381908

[PuFu]

Honestly...this review is an attempt to sabotage OFP2...they must be getting worried being the best game this year. I mean ARMA2 already released, getting a terrible review from true gamers, ODST being a total **** up, no matchmaking (took the game back thats how crap it was), Mw2coming out...the reviewer wouldnt even be able find own **** even if slapped him on the face....THIS IS CLEAR ATTEMPT to sabotage OFP2...
This guy speaks nothing but the true...:icon_rolleyes:

@<hidden>
Well, tell you what, i am 100% sure that the vast of those guys posting that crap can't even put the finger on Czech Republic on a map...

They haven't heard much about OFP rather that it has crappy graphics and it was developed by the enemy, or that it developed some other games as well, true sandbox ones. Most of them are console players, and they haven't seen a more realistic game than COD4, BFBC or GRAW...

Anyways, i do believe that 4/10 in a review should be explained a bit more than "i should have given it 8/10 but the AI difficulty made me give it 4/10"..

[Zipper5]

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/operationflashpoint2/video/6230584

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/operationflashpoint2/video/6230583

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/operationflashpoint2/video/6230585

In that second video the AI looks just as bad as ArmA's was. :eek:
And seriously, why would someone fire small arms weapons at an APC? It does shit all to it...

[MehMan]

Yeah,

He's not giving it a fair review.
He's reviewing the game on what he thinks about it, not on what it was aiming for. (Which according to this guy, sounds like it hit its mark)

I thought that was the point of reviewing a game. If you review a game for what it's supposed to be rather than what it is, what's the point?

[DM]

I thought that was the point of reviewing a game.

I thought the point was to give it 9 out of 10, say how awesome it is, then move onto the next game? :j:

[ProfTournesol]

Why should i play FP : DR when i usually play with OFP (not talking about ArmA2...) with 200 AI against 200 AI ? Should i play 30 against 30, then spawn 60 more etc. ?

[4 IN 1]

Personally I dont think that the reaction on CM forum about a crap review is worth that much of a fuss, afterall we(well atless i am) acted the same when A2 first come out.

[MehMan]

Personally I dont think that the reaction on CM forum about a crap review is worth that much of a fuss, afterall we(well atless i am) acted the same when A2 first come out.

:D Maaaayyybbeee....yeah the first german review was awful and we were thinking they were at fault. It seems that it wasn't the case. Mostly.

[Von_Paulus]

Personally I dont think that the reaction on CM forum about a crap review is worth that much of a fuss, afterall we(well atless i am) acted the same when A2 first come out.
You're absolved from your ARMA II sins. It's official. ;)

[Hitman]

Sweden's PC Gamer gave it 87%.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381958


Here are some quotes from the review:

“This autumn’s best shooter!”
”Codemasters delivers a game with a high production value.”
“Dragon Rising is delivered with a wonderful intuitive editor.”
“A supreme soldier game with an impressive campaign.”

[Leopardi]

Sweden's PC Gamer gave it 87%.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381958

Would be 47% max. if they had expected the game to be what we were told in 2007/2008.

[pchaxor]

In 1 Week from today it ships. (If not delayed)
Then 3-7 days later it gets patched? (I assume MP and bug fixes perhaps)
Then we as a community should test it based on playability as a game.

We should not compare OFP2 to ArmA 2 .. they are just not on level playing fields. ArmA 2 is Military grade for cripes sakes. OFP2 I think is or will be a console grade shooter more compareable to COD or the BF series. Limited view distance and limited in all aspects. If CM was trying to continue the OFP line of simulation, I can already tell you that it didn't happen. (not with all the limitations) The more obvious and dead give away is that (I think) the demo was canceled because it will directly effect $ALE$ (in a bad way). Why else would a company not want people to "sample" a product to BOOST sales? It is because I think the demo will show people what they are actually buying. Once a game is SOLD and opened .. you dont get to return it. Done deal. Buyer Beware.

I will be sure to give an honest eval when I get it and play it for a bit. Being fair about it and NOT comparing it to ArmA 2.
I am sure the OFP2 forums will also reflect what people think of the game as well, so dont hold your breath on my eval. lol
ArmA 2 is by far the best combat simulation available. Hands Down. Nothing can touch it.

[BogdanM]

We should not compare OFP2 to ArmA 2 ..

Well I/We can do that but can the OFP: DR fans stop saying that OFPDR beats ARMA2 hands-down. Until that happens I'll keep pointing out that OFPDR is seriously limited compared to BI games. But if its compared to Battlefield/COD series than I'd say its rather a good game and an improvement for that type of FPS.

[Deadfast]

The Eurogamer.cz review (http://www.eurogamer.cz/articles/operation-flashpoint-2-recenze) was pulled by the Czech distributor CD Projekt Czech.
According to them the review was released before end of information embargo by Codemasters:



"We apologize to all readers, for the Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising review has been temporarily withdrawn at our request. It will be available online again on Tuesday October 6th, after the end of the embargo by Codemasters. We apologize to all readers and the Eurogamer.cz server for the inconvenience which was caused by a mistake on our side."

On behalf of CD Projekt Czech

Pavel Mondschein

Head of Publishing

[Leopardi]

Well I/We can do that but can the OFP: DR fans stop saying that OFPDR beats ARMA2 hands-down. Until that happens I'll keep pointing out that OFPDR is seriously limited compared to BI games. But if its compared to Battlefield/COD series than I'd say its rather a good game and an improvement for that type of FPS.

It's a degrade with more basic audio, vehicle handling and destruction. Maybe improvement if you only play COD.

[Relemar]

Just pre-ordered for £18, in shops when its out it's £35..

[Leopardi]

Just pre-ordered for £18, in shops when its out it's £35..

Yeah they're selling it with preorder because they know the game sucks arse.

[BogdanM]

It's a degrade with more basic audio, vehicle handling and destruction. Maybe improvement if you only play COD.

I don't play console games so I don't really care if its worse than other console games(I'm guessing you're saying that its worse than Battlefield Bad Company)... I'm only comparing it to similar FPSs released on PC.

[DM]

The Eurogamer.cz review (http://www.eurogamer.cz/articles/operation-flashpoint-2-recenze) was pulled by the Czech distributor CD Projekt Czech.
According to them the review was released before end of information embargo by Codemasters:

Interesting to see the same patterns as when ArmA2 was coming up to its release date:

One reviewer posts a bad review, then pulls it after the "information embargo" flag is waved.

Interesting indeed...

[Leopardi]

I don't play console games so I don't really care if its worse than other console games(I'm guessing you're saying that its worse than Battlefield Bad Company)... I'm only comparing it to similar FPSs released on PC.

I'm talking about Bad Company 2 (PC Game)

[Maddmatt]

Interesting to see the same patterns as when ArmA2 was coming up to its release date:

One reviewer posts a bad review, then pulls it after the "information embargo" flag is waved.

Interesting indeed...

It's a cheap tactic to get a boost to website traffic. And the outcry at the game's forum helped them with that.
But then again it's not the same review site that did that with ArmA 2.

I wonder how all the blind fans will react when they actually have the game...

[Von_Paulus]

I wonder how all the blind fans will react when they actually have the game...
Like all blind fans. It's a question of faith, and faith perform miracles. So on their eyes it will be one of the best games ever.

[BogdanM]

I'm talking about Bad Company 2 (PC Game)

Read my post again. Keyword: released(past tense).
And seriously, your counterargument is that OFPDR is not an improvement to the genre because half a year from now a better game will be released? This sounds silly to say the least...

[pchaxor]

Hey I pre ordered it with low expactations. I am not claiming it is going to suck or be great. I am just curious about all the hype and want to see it first hand. If it sucks I will just sell it on ebay for 1/2 price, or perhaps place it with my original Operation Flashpoint box so I have a cool looking pair to show my grandchildren. One that was great and the one that totally sucked.
:D Either way it will be fun!

[Maddmatt]

Like all blind fans. It's a question of faith, and faith perform miracles. So on their eyes it will be one of the best games ever.
Depends. It's what many of them want. A simplified, semi-realistic military action game. Although if the campaign is as hard as that one review made it sound then many of them are going to cry :p

It's got some good reviews, so it can't be all bad. But then you can never trust reviews without comparing many of them.

[That guy]

I want to see gamestrailers do a review of OFPDR
they are pretty thorough and fair

[MehMan]

I want to see gamestrailers do a review of OFPDR
they are pretty thorough and fair

Hmm, yes and no, I'd say. Some of their game reviews were, not biased, but I just didn't agree with them. Not because I didn't like the game type, but it just wasn't like that. But oh well.

[Von_Paulus]

Depends. It's what many of them want. A simplified, semi-realistic military action game. Although if the campaign is as hard as that one review made it sound then many of them are going to cry :p

Agree. But even if it's a crap, they will say wonderful things. Most of them will have to justify, even with themselves, their statements during the hype period.
They are already in denial. But that's no big deal. It happens everywhere.

[Maddmatt]

Hmm, yes and no, I'd say. Some of their game reviews were, not biased, but I just didn't agree with them. Not because I didn't like the game type, but it just wasn't like that. But oh well.
If I remember correctly they complained that ArmA 2 was too hard and realistic...

[jblackrupert]

It's an obvious console port

How many console ports released in the last few years that didn't suck......

[SWAT_BigBear]

It's an obvious console port

How many console ports released in the last few years that didn't suck......
dadadadadadadada......BATMAN :D

[Zipper5]

dadadadadadadada......BATMAN :D
QFT. Though I highly doubt DR will have the same quality...

[Leopardi]

Finnish gaming magazines gave it a bad review. In OFP you were part of a bigger group and went to battles in transports, now in this it's just 4 men battling chinese starting right from the action. No vehicle action, just a few scripted parts where you can drive with some. Bodies disappear few secs after they die, teammates won't move if needed but stay in a firefight and just die away.

[Hitman]

Finnish gaming magazines gave it a bad review. In OFP you were part of a bigger group, and you went to battles in transports, but now it's just 4 men battling chinese and missions start right in the action. No vehicle action, just a few scripted parts where you can drive with some.


Which magazines?

[Leopardi]

Read my post again. Keyword: released(past tense).
And seriously, your counterargument is that OFPDR is not an improvement to the genre because half a year from now a better game will be released? This sounds silly to say the least...

It's 5 months btw, and to compare 2009 game to latest 2005 battlefield on PC is more silly than comparing to a BF game that is coming out in matter of few months.


Which magazines?

Pelit magazine for example, the biggest gaming magazine in Finland. I don't think I'm even going to bother trying the demo tbh.

[txalin]

Ok, here you have all the scores:


87% Pc Gamer Sweden
40% Eurogamer.cz
78% Gamestar
77% PCG (alemana, creo)
90% Pc Zone
70% Official Playstation Mag in the UK
80% Xbox Official (uk)
90% Power Unlimited

[kavoven]

Quite some differences