Oh the poor taleban and al-queda..

[Wobble]

several terrorists attacked a chruch in islamabad Pakistan near the US embassy during mass, the church is known for being the place the US workers go for service..several arab men tossed hand grenades through the windows..

40 wounded.  2 americans killed, a woman and her 7 year old daughter..

on a side note lobbiests are demanding the prisoners at camp x-ray be give cold drinks including gatorade or other sports drinks at least every 3 hours insted of the "cruel room temperature tap water"  

what next a fucking birthdayparty with clowns and an american pinata for the prisoners?



EDIT: it was 2 men, each threw 6 hand grenades. and 5 dead now.

[Wobble]

funny, people lobby and get prayer leaders, prayer mats, bibles and their own spiritual leader for the prisoners at Camp X-ray..  (to go with their gatorade I guess).. cause you know... we wouldent want to deprive them of their religion


Its nice how people point oout how imporant religion is to these "people" that not giving them prayer mats, and their own spiritual leader while in camp x-ray that that would be cruel....

very important.. yes you can tell someone has much respect for religion when they toss grenades into a prayer gathering..

[DaCrytter]

Well said. Once again this shows that 'human rights' activists actually know f**k all about human nature. 'Cruel cold water' is all people like that deserve. In fact, people who chuck handgrenades through church windows during mass deserve to be lined up and shot.

[Wobble]

AMMENDMENT: daughter was not 7, was in earley teens.

over 40 injured..


sorry, data just trickleing in...

[Pete]

funny.


the ones at camp X-ray didnt do it, unless usa started to give them vacations...however.

if you want to see individuals as one single person...some us soldiers raped and killed a 12 year old girl in japan, i say that all us soldiers should be hung by there balls.



the terrorist act you mentions is one more in the long list of cruel deeps made by lunatics...terrorism has to be stopped, just as any other crime in the world....but you cant really sentence people who didnt do anything before they did it...it doesnt work.


if you do....what makes you any better than the terrorists?

[KingBeast]

I have to agree with pete, the Al Queda members at X-Ray didnt have anything to do with this attack so why even try and make a connection?
In fact do any of us even know at all if any of the prisoners at X-ray have done anything, or are we all just speculating with things like
"Oh they are Al Queda therefore they have surely raped women, murdered babies and planned massive terrorist attacks"

Have a little empathy, if you were a prisoner would you like a nice drink? Yes of course you would. You might not necessarily deserve it, but what harm can it possibly do?

[Pete]

basically human rights is not something that you decide to give others...it is the right you have.

you wish to remove certain human rights and you also remove them from yourself.

if i for some reason even end up in some difficulty, get taken as a prisoner by a enemy or what so ever (can happen to all of us, in case of a war) i would like to be treated as a human...not as a animal, but i quess there is always some along us who wish to be humiliated/tortured..

but i dont.

[Hardliner]

Well USA considered this a war didn't it? what about the geneva convention? if US POWs were not looked after USA would play hell. But in the news we got here USA didn't want the geneva convention for these so called POWs (afgan fighters). And also a country that rekons its fighting for freedom of speach and also human rights, then USA does not have a very good record  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif USA has bombed more countries and innocent people than every other country put together. What about innocent people there? Don't get me wrong I'm NOT trying to be smart here but americans everywhere wouldn't be happy being targets in a war. But in other wars innocent people have been the target of US aggresstion (WW2, Vietnam, Iraq, many others ect) most wars have not affected US soil directly. But over the past century USA has messed up other countries and even now has "occupied" certain spots (probably for economical gain) I'm sure americans would not be happy if they were consantly bombed by other countries and had hostile aircraft patroling "no fly zones" over their homes and also defining what their country can do and not do, simply because other governments don't like what your government thinks or does. I'm not repeat not trying to be an arsehole here. I'm just thinking about the innocent people that always get caught in the middle, between the US government and a hostile government (Saddam for example) US planes over Iraq hurt innocent people more than Saddam. The more you bomb him the worse he will make life for his own people just to stay in power.

Oh shit have I gone too far? Ok I'll stop there. Once again I am thinking of the innocent ones caught up in it all. I am believing that all governments are evil.

[InRange]

First of all, I think room temperature water is good enough for the prisoners. But you have to at least treat them with a bit of decency. These guys were only fighting for their country and for what they believe is right.
But of course, a terrorist act such as what happened today can not be justified.

[LordZach]

did i miss the map that has al queda on it?

A civilized society has a system of absolute values and principles (i.e laws). We have distanced us from the old-testament 'an eye for an eye' for a good reason. Just because sombody does a bad thing to you doesn't justify doing the same to him. We define actions as 'bad' or 'good' and avoid doing the 'bad' (there is of course the problem of deciding what is 'bad' and what is 'good').

That is why I among other things fail to see the logic behind capital punishment.

[Hilandor]

yes i also think the prisoners at camp xray were caught during a conflict and therefore pow's

the ones that killed those poor folks at the church are just murdering bastards, and deserve to hang




any my only greiff about capital punishemnt is it takes to long for the process to be completed from going to court and being found guilty to the point of the execution.
still wasting tax payers money.

I live in Scotland, where unfortunetly we dont have it but i back the idea of bringing capital punishment back all the way. Then perhaps theres a deterent out there, and some of them sicko bams would maybe think about it, and perhaps my kids could play safe in the street again.

[Tex [USMC]]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (InRange @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,17:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">These guys were only fighting for their country and for what they believe is right.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Technically, they werent fighting for their country. Every single detainee at Camp X-ray is a foreign national, i.e., not Afghan.
The hardest part to figure on this one is whether these guys are POWs or not. Because if they ARE POWs, we are violating the Geneva Convention because we are interrogating them, which is a no-no by the Geneva Convention.
However, if they ARE NOT POWs, we would be violating the terms of our judicial system, most notably the writ of habeas corpus, which states that we cannot detain people for unreasonable amounts of time without charging them with a crime.
Fuck what we are giving them to eat and drink, we are doing fine for them on that account. However, we are violating principals that we would expect that other countries hold to if they had US POWs.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hilandor @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,19:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I live in Scotland, where unfortunetly we dont have it  but i back the idea of bringing capital punishment back all the way.  Then perhaps theres a deterent out there, and some of them sicko bams would maybe think about it, and perhaps my kids could play safe in the street again.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Captial punishment is really not logical in a civilized society. The state can&#39;t say &#39;killing is bad&#39; and then do it itself. Besides it is a waste of a perfectly functional human body: let them run around in a hamster wheel generating electricity, for all that I care.

As the part of it being a deterent - there is no proof of that. On the contrary, correlated or not, but countries that have capital punshment have more crime then the ones that don&#39;t.

I don&#39;t say that there are not criminals who don&#39;t deserve to die. Hell, I would put a bullet myself in a child-molester, but I think that capital punishment brings more negative things than positive. One good argument I think is that it is terminal. Which is kind of a bugger for innocent people who get convicted. I am glad that they don&#39;t practice CP in the EU.

[Thehamster]

What good does it do taking a life for another life it does not bring them a dead person back.

Capital punishment is one of the few barbaric parts of society left in the 1st world in the countries where the majority people know no better and are socially backwards.

[nordin dk]

How many times have we discussed the same things now?

[Thehamster]

It must be verging on 342 by now.
Yep I now have a store of reply for this type of topics I just pick on at ramdom and paste it in. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[nordin dk]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What good does it do taking a life for another life it does not bring them a dead person back.

Capital punishment is one of the few barbaric parts of society left in the 1st world in the countries where the majority people know no better and are socially backwards. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


I agree with you, but I guess you know... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Thehamster]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,22:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What good does it do taking a life for another life it does not bring them a dead person back.

Capital punishment is one of the few barbaric parts of society left in the 1st world in the countries where the majority people know no better and are socially backwards. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


I agree with you, but I guess you know... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
know what? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Damage Inc]

Know that the evil is growing and those posts will not be allowed.

Still it&#39;s nice.

[madmike]

Drinking water too cold in a hot climate can kill becuase it is such a shock to the body so its a good thing that they dont have cold water.

I dont agree with capital punishment but I feel that criminals(not large organised military) should have bad conditions so that they wont want to go through it again.
In Britain people re offend becuase the courts are usualy on thier side and the sentences are short. Also the prisons are like hotels with tvs for those that behave and regular meals cooked by the trainee convict chefs. Its a joke http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

The victims are the ones that get punished but the government are going to change all this, or so they say

[Tovarish]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,11:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">on a side note lobbiests are demanding the prisoners at camp x-ray be give cold drinks including gatorade or other sports drinks at least every 3 hours insted of the "cruel room temperature tap water"  [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You mean the same "cruel room temperature tap water" I mostly drank for the first 11 years of my life? Or that many fellow Cubans without working refrigerators drink every day?.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Jesus fucking Christ, din&#39;t get me started, these are some of the last fucking human beings in Cuba who deserve cold water, and it looks like they&#39;re about the only one&#39;s living there who get the Western media&#39;s attention these days. What the fuck?&#33;?

[Placebo]

If someone coldly and without remorse takes another life why should they have any right to keep their own life? All I know is if someone murdered a member of my family I wouldn&#39;t them to live out the rest of their life in a nice warm prison cell with free cable and 3 hot meals a day.

[Tex [USMC]]

Capital Punishment is morally (from a Judeo-Christian standpoint) wrong, but it is effective. in the 1950s in the US, the number of violent murders was at its lowest the same year that executions of murderers was at its highest. the year after the Federal Government imposed a moratorium on Capital Punishment, the number of murders increased sharply, and rose every year until the Death Penalty was reimposed.
Nothing will make a guy think twice about pulling the trigger than thinking about himself fryin away in the chair.

[nordin dk]

God it&#39;s hard to ignore that last post from Tex[USCM]...
...aaargh&#33;...must resist....



I think I did it....now to sort this confusement out:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Thehamster @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,23:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,22:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What good does it do taking a life for another life it does not bring them a dead person back.

Capital punishment is one of the few barbaric parts of society left in the 1st world in the countries where the majority people know no better and are socially backwards. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


I agree with you, but I guess you know... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
know what? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That  I agree http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Wobble]

hmm.. interesting posts.. terrorists toss grenades into a church and kill a woman and her daughter as well as others.. and you say "well thats what the US gets".. and point out every bad thing the US has ever done EVER.. as some sort of excuse for them.. like it was justified..

then you look at the pitiful sickeing pukes at camp x-ray who were conntected to the biggest terrorists attack in god knows when and coddle them.. saying they "they were just fighting for their country"

well those people in that chruch were just serving their country too.. they werent responsable for ANYTHING.. but I guess that doesent matter.. afterall, their just americans

and how are the prisoners at camp x-ray connected with the ones who did this? they are terrorists or connected to them

and the taleban were not "fighting for their country" they were fighting for Al-queda.. a terrorist organization.. remember Bin-Lande almost dinglehandedly financed the taleban.. they are more or less HIS army.. you fight for a terrorist.. you are no better..


some of you people are just fucking sick.. I hope this thread gets locked and delted because im about to really lose it with some of you motherfuckers...

[nordin dk]

To all: Try to imagine that this discussion is not about the US but about pow&#39;s or prisoners in general. That way we can keep it clean. It&#39;s impossible to discuss general issues in here, either because somebody drags in the US, or because the americans take any comment as an attack on their own person.


"No matter how horrible your crime, you always have human rights."
(and I don&#39;t mean a cold Gatorade...)

That&#39;s the contested notion. Agree/Disagree. Why/Why not?

I Agree: Because "guilt" and the &#39;size&#39; of your crime is more often than not a very subjective matter.


As for Capital Punishment: If you decide to kill a criminal, then you commit the same act, that you want to punish him for:
- deciding who get&#39;s to live and who get&#39;s to die.

So by your own standards, you should be penalised in the same way...

[Tex [USMC]]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (Thehamster @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,23:34)
Quote (nordin dk @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,22:20)
Quote
What good does it do taking a life for another life it does not bring them a dead person back.

Capital punishment is one of the few barbaric parts of society left in the 1st world in the countries where the majority people know no better and are socially backwards.



I agree with you, but I guess you know...
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Put it this way: A guy rapes and kills a woman. Hes brought to trial and is found guilty. He either gets life in prison, with possible parole (no joke, ppl like this get parole all the time), or he gets sentenced to death by lethal injection.
Without the death penalty, this convict spends the rest of his life living off taxpayers money, with a number of chances to escape or be let out.
If he is put to death by lethal injection, he is subjected to about the most humane and painless way to end a persons life ever devised.
In a perfect world, we wouldnt need the death penalty. But, we dont, and so we need a viable deterrent to keep people from thinking that they can take a life and get free room and board for the rest of their life.

[nordin dk]

Put it any way you want...

...it doesn&#39;t change anything.

Explain to me the exact border...the split hair where you decide between life or death...

Are you saying that we should have the government kill everybody that are a burden to the taxpayers?
If not, then don&#39;t use that reasoning...

What happens if in the nick of time, a private sponsor steps in and buys the convict one more year in prison?
When he stops the payments, has he then &#39;murdered&#39; the convict?

What happens if the executioner is a maniac and enjoys his work? Should he be held responsible?

How much money is your life worth? 20.000&#036; ? 50.000&#036; ??
Give me an exact figure, or stop thinking about lives in that way. How much is your mother/sister/girlfriend&#39;s life worth?
100.000&#036; ?

If somone is sentenced to the deathpenalty, but it turns out he&#39;s rich, so he can pay his prisonfare himself, should he be allowed to live?

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Tex [USMC]]

you want a definition of the line? here you go:
If you take another human beings life intentionally, you have forfeited your right to live yourself.

The fact that killing these lowlifes saves the taxpayer a few dollars is a side bonus.

[nordin dk]

You have defined your moral standards, but not the physical act itself.

How can you be sure that the accused didn&#39;t intend it to be a warning shot, but he happened to hit the drugstoreclerk in the head instead?

To give one example...

[nordin dk]

You go to a disco, somebody puts something in your drink, it&#39;s a really bad trip.
You see someone talking to your gf, and you freak out and strangle him.

Perhaps IRL, you never tried anything stronger than rootbeer, but you
have a lot of aggresion that is suddenly unleashed when you are accidently
inlfluenced by drugs.

And you were so determined, all witnesses agree to that, and you didn&#39;t
seem that high...and didn&#39;t you know this guy from before...and didn&#39;t you used
to joke about that if he touched your gf, you would f*cking kick his ass?

And weren&#39;t you arrested once for being in a fight?

etc. etc.

Do you deserve the deathpenalty? That depends only on how
skillfull the prosecutor is.

[Tex [USMC]]

thats what a court of law is for: to establish whether or not the killing was intentional. Im not advocating summary executions; any ruling involving the death penalty should not be taken lightly.

[Major Fubar]

Capital punishment is a difficult issue, but in the end, I guess I&#39;m for it. But only in cases of horrendous crimes (murder, rape), and where the defendant has been proved guilty beyond any reasonable doubt. How can people not think it&#39;s a deterrent?
Also, the death penalty prevents some bleeding-heart appeals tribunal letting out some murderer/child molester before they have even served one third of their sentence.
As for the cost to taxpayers, I think you could recover some of it by liquidating the offenders assets and use that money to compensate the victims and their families, as well as pay for the legal costs.
The only thing I have against the death penalty for those who deserve it is in a way, its an easy option. I&#39;d rather think of some child molestor or serial killer getting gang-raped for the next 50 years or so.

[Pete]

reason number 1: we cant determine quilt with 100% accuracy, innocents have died.


if you inprison someone and find out he wasnt the quilty one, you can set him free.....but if you kill him?

and dont say "but only those we are sure about".....all the innocents who died like that had been convicted and seen as quilty, without doubt.....but when later new evidence surfaces....ooops, too late.

[Tex [USMC]]

It has never been proven that an innocent man has been put to death. Innocent men have been released from death row, but that only proves that the way we thoroughly and repeatedly review each case prevents a horrible scenario like an innocent man being executed. Go ahead, give me an incident when a man was executed and afterwards was proven innocent.

[Longinius]

http://www.gbr.ecadp.org/reports/index.html

The fact is that they don&#39;t have to be proven innocent. As long as there is doubt to their guilt, they shouldn&#39;t be executed.

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,01:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hmm.. interesting posts..  terrorists toss grenades into a church and kill a woman and her daughter as well as others.. and you say "well thats what the US gets".. and point out every bad thing the US has ever done EVER.. as some sort of excuse for them.. like it was justified..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, I think you have to be really fucking stupid to go into a church in Pakistan. Doesn&#39;t much differ from going out into the fields with a big sign saying &#39;I&#39;m U.S. so target me&#39;. Mebbe they should have just stayed in their guarded embassy, especially when the natives don&#39;t much LOVE the U.S. at the moment.

After all the shit U.S. has pulled recently, however justified (and I&#39;m not saying it&#39;s not), the extremist muslims are bound to be a little pissed at the moment. So no point in making yourself an easy target.

[Wobble]

Well, I think you have to be really fucking stupid to go into a church in Pakistan

oh so americans shoudlent expect to be able to go to church without fearing death unless they are in america.. thats nice..

After all the shit U.S. has pulled recently, however justified (and I&#39;m not saying it&#39;s not), the extremist muslims are bound to be a little pissed at the moment. So no point in making yourself an easy target.

yea, they are innocent, they are just people doing a job to support their family.. but of someone kills them its THEIR fault? they shouldent be there..

let me get this straight..  if someone fights for a terrorist orginazation and gets caught they should be insured all the creature comforts possable because all they were doing was "fighting for their country" (laff).. but if an american gets killed overseas.. well thats their spot for being stupid enough to do something as dumb as.. going to chruch..


people preach and piss and moan about how the al-queda prisoners need their koran, their cold gotorade, thier prayer mats, and their spritual leader..  but if innocent americans get killed overseas.. thats their problem, they shouldent have gone to chruch, they should stay locked up on an embass all the time and if they leave and get killed "oh well"

yea thats fair isnt it.

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,08:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
"oh so americans shoudlent expect to be able to go to church without fearing death unless they are in america.. thats nice.."

I wasn&#39;t saying that. I was saying americans (or people of any nationality to that matter) shouldn&#39;t go to churches at the moment in places like Pakistan, Afganistan and such. That&#39;s just making yourself a target.

"yea, they are innocent, they are just people doing a job to support their family.. but of someone kills them its THEIR fault? they shouldent be there.."

And I wasn&#39;t talking about any FAULTS either. Just that making yourself an easy target is an easy way of getting yourself killed. So the people in the church were indeed as innocent as any average person is. The people who threw grenades into the church were BAD. It was a little stupid to go into a church in Pakistan.

An example: An israeli jew walks alone into the palestinian areas in West Bank and shouts: "You palestinians are just scum. You should all be killed." Promptly some pissed palestinians beat the jew to death. Was it wrong to kill the jew? Yes. Was the jew stupid for doing what he did? Yes.

"people preach and piss and moan about how the al-queda prisoners need their koran, their cold gotorade, thier prayer mats, and their spritual leader.. but if innocent americans get killed overseas.. thats their problem, they shouldent have gone to chruch."

I wasn&#39;t saying any of this. See above.

[theavonlady]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,10:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">An example: An israeli jew walks alone into the palestinian areas in West Bank and shouts: "You palestinians are just scum. You should all be killed." Promptly some pissed palestinians beat the jew to death. Was it wrong to kill the jew? Yes. Was the jew stupid for doing what he did? Yes.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Isn&#39;t it amazing folks? Now I would have thought that the comparison would have been a Jew simply walking into a Shechem and Nablus,asking where he can buy a good cup of coffee.

But no&#33; Obviously a Jew couldn&#39;t refrain him/herself from calling them scum.

Was Oligo stupid for making such a comparison? Yes.

[Wobble]

yes, im sure the US staff workers in the church were too buisy screaming about how muslims are all smelly pathetic terrorists to even get around to worshipping..

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
"Isn&#39;t it amazing folks? Now I would have thought that the comparison would have been a Jew simply walking into a Shechem and Nablus,asking where he can buy a good cup of coffee. But no&#33; Obviously a Jew couldn&#39;t refrain him/herself from calling them scum."

It was a freaking example. I wasn&#39;t making any political statements whether jews are calling palestinians scum or not. I was just describing a sure way to get yourself killed... sheesh&#33; I was describing how a REALLY STUPID, hypothetical jew would act.

I could have given other examples also, like a white guy going to Harlem and yelling: "White Power" on the streets. Or some Londoner parading in some volatile Northern Ireland city yelling: "Those IRA blokes are a bunch of wankers."

My examples were extreme just to get my point across. Like, mellow out people...

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yes, im sure the US staff workers in the church were too buisy screaming about how muslims are all smelly pathetic terrorists to even get around to worshipping..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was giving an extreme example so that you&#39;d get my point, because you failed to get it from the first post.

I mean, come on&#33; If you were a pissed off muslim extremist wanting blood, what would you attack? I&#39;ll tell you that an unguarded church sounds very juicy, since you get to attack the people you have targeted AND their religion.

So avoiding churches in Pakistan seems like a good survival tip to me.

[theavonlady]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,10:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It was a freaking example. I wasn&#39;t making any political statements whether jews are calling palestinians scum or not. I was just describing a sure way to get yourself killed... sheesh&#33; I was describing how a REALLY STUPID, hypothetical jew would act.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No. I described how real Jews have gotten killed here - for buying coffee at a West Bank restaurant or purchasing fruits and vegetables at an Arab market. About the only words they may have had a chance to say is "please don&#39;t".

We haven&#39;t had any such "stupid Jews" for the last few months fortunately. Like Pavlov&#39;s dog, repeating the punishment about a dozen times gets the lesson through.

Your "freaking example" was downright insulting and completely incomparible with the case at hand, as Wobble also commented on sarcastically. It&#39;s not my fault if you&#39;re a really stupid goy.

[Longinius]

Interesting. Now that Americans died people take notice. The last time christian churches got targeted there I didn&#39;t see any posts about it...

Some people died and that is to bad. Whats even worse is that it gets MORE media coverage and becomes MORE important because Americans died. I don&#39;t know, but it seems stupid to me. I thought all men were equal...

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No. I described how real Jews have gotten killed here - for buying coffee at a West Bank restaurant or purchasing fruits and vegetables at an Arab market. About the only words they may have had a chance to say is "please don&#39;t".

We haven&#39;t had any such "stupid Jews" for the last few months fortunately. Like Pavlov&#39;s dog, repeating the punishment about a dozen times gets the lesson through.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sigh. Yes, the situation is very very bad in there. But what I&#39;m talking about is the responsibility of everyone of us to avoid obvious threats to our life or get killed. If such deaths like you described indeed happened (coffee purchasing was enough to provoke a killing), they are actually a fine real life example of what I am talking about:

When the first such killing happened, all the sensible people started to avoid doing such things as going to a West Bank coffees shops. When the second and third such incident happened, the slow-headed people started to avoid those places. When the rest of the killings happened, the stupid people started to avoid those places.

The killings were sad, unfortunate and wrong. But the last people to get killed that way were also not very sensible.

In situations where the reason of death was the action of other people, we tend to forget the responsibility of our own life we all have, like avoiding obvious threats. But if somebody drowns in a flooding river while trying to swim across it, we can only blame the stupidity of the swimmer.

Lesson: Stay out of those flooding rivers, enraged mobs and churches in hostile areas. You&#39;ll live longer.

[RalphWiggum]

yes, also when US does takes some action, so called human rights activist yell at US, but when al-Qaeda takes some action, they STFU

[theavonlady]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,10:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But if somebody drowns in a flooding river while trying to swim across it, we can only blame the stupidity of the swimmer.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well why didn&#39;t you say so in the first place?

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Interesting. Now that Americans died people take notice. The last time christian churches got targeted there I didn&#39;t see any posts about it...

Some people died and that is to bad. Whats even worse is that it gets MORE media coverage and becomes MORE important because Americans died. I don&#39;t know, but it seems stupid to me. I thought all men were equal...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It&#39;s just the way world works, mate.

"All men are equal, but some men are more equal than others." -Orwell

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well why didn&#39;t you say so in the first place?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I really don&#39;t know. Because this is what I was talking about all the time.

[theavonlady]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Interesting. Now that Americans died people take notice. The last time christian churches got targeted there I didn&#39;t see any posts about it...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, why didn&#39;t you post anything about it?

Wobble,who started this thread, is American. He may likely be Christian as well. The event might have easily related to him emotionally.

Is there something odd about that? I think Ralph Wiggum was on to something.

[RalphWiggum]

drinking beer again, Avon, sorry. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[RalphWiggum]

my statement was that when US makes action, like Op. Anaconda, human-rights group whine and yell how &#39;blood thirsty&#39; US is.

but when al-Qaeda throws grenades into church, they don&#39;t whine and yell how &#39;blood thirsty&#39; al-Qaeda is.

when US accidently kills a reporter, ppl criticize.but when Daniel Pearl(fron WSJ) got decapitated, those groups STFU.

[Wobble]

ralph if you cant help Avon and I sober.. well.. stay drunk http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LOL

and yes the reason I brought it up was:

A: american (which I am) though i dont lay claim to any particular religion i do believe in *god*

B: the sickness of an attack.. killing people in a place of worship, not because of what they have ever done, or believe but simply because of the landmass they claim as home.

thats about it.

[RalphWiggum]

in conjunction with the topic,

when us bombed a mosque(accidently as i believe), human-right groups criticized.

when anti-US ppl threw grenades over the weekend, they STFU.

[RalphWiggum]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,10:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A: american (which I am) though i dont lay claim to any particular religion i do believe in *god*[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No...you are a Texan.... a HUGE difference http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,10:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
"when anti-US ppl threw grenades over the weekend, they STFU."

Everybody knows the anti-US people are bad, horrible, evil, merciless, incidious, cowardly, immoral, etc. so there really is no need to whine about their breach of human rights. You kind of expect those bad, horrible, evil, merciless, incidious, cowardly, immoral, etc. people to do stuff like that anyhow. So everybody shuts up, but that doesn&#39;t mean that those anti-US people aren&#39;t punished when captured.

"when us bombed a mosque(accidently as i believe), human-right groups criticized."

&#39;Human rights&#39; people whine because U.S. is a supposedly bening entity and thus they shouldn&#39;t do stuff like that. Also, nobody is going to get punished for this act, thus whining is necessary to maybe change that.

It&#39;s simple really.

What I think is really funky is when gunmen attack the Indian parliament and it barely gets mentioned in the news. Imagine if the White House was assaulted by gunmen... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Longinius]

Yes. Like I have said several times. Some things are really quite pointless to whine about because everyone agrees that it IS wrong and it IS horrible and it SHOULDNT be done. Why should I start a discussion about a topic I know everyone agrees on?

I find it much more interesting to debate and discuss things that require discussion. How the US acts in foreign matters for example. If the US attacks a terrorist it is not really important to discuss about the terrorists attacks because he is getting his. He is getting punished. But if the US comits crimes during this process it HAS to be discussed because if you do not speak up it will be the same as accepting such behaviour. The same actions that when performed by another party started the entire conflict.

[theavonlady]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,11:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,10:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A: american (which I am) though i dont lay claim to any particular religion i do believe in *god*[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No...you are a Texan.... a HUGE difference http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You mean he&#39;s into self-worship? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[christophercles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (InRange @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,01:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">First of all, I think room temperature water is good enough for the prisoners. But you have to at least treat them with a bit of decency. These guys were only fighting for their country and for what they believe is right.
But of course, a terrorist act such as what happened today can not be justified.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually anyone who was fighting for thier country was not taken to camp x-ray, the cuban camp is only for al-queda.

[Longinius]

From CNN

"Called Camp X-Ray, the detention facility is an open-air, chain-link cell structure where U.S. forces are holding and interrogating 300 suspected Taliban and al Qaeda members."

[nordin dk]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you want a definition of the line? here you go:
If you take another human beings life intentionally, you have forfeited your right to live yourself. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So the executioner should himself be killed?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">thats what a court of law is for: to establish whether or not the killing was intentional. Im not advocating summary executions; any ruling involving the death penalty should not be taken lightly.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I don&#39;t think they are taken lightly, but mistakes are made nonetheless. The court cannot determine whether or not the accused actually comitted the crime, only if the evidence suggests it.
Would you want to die for a crime you did not commit, or a murder you did not intend to commit?
Would you think it fair if your father was "humanely" executed for example?
Just a simple stab with a needle, and he sees nice colors and then it&#39;s aaaalright....you can go home now, and you can tell your children what a wonderful world it is we live in, where the governement is allowed to kill people.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,10http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif6)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">An example: An israeli jew walks alone into the palestinian areas in West Bank and shouts: "You palestinians are just scum. You should all be killed." Promptly some pissed palestinians beat the jew to death. Was it wrong to kill the jew? Yes. Was the jew stupid for doing what he did? Yes.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Isn&#39;t it amazing folks? Now I would have thought that the comparison would have been a Jew simply walking into a Shechem and Nablus,asking where he can buy a good cup of coffee.

But no&#33; Obviously a Jew couldn&#39;t refrain him/herself from calling them scum.

Was Oligo stupid for making such a comparison? Yes.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am amazed how people can be that sensitive. Oligo just gave an example of stupid behaviour. Nothing more. No reason to take it politically or personally. He was talking about a very hypotetical stupid individual.

The same goes for Wobble. When people say that the embassy people had it coming it is not about critisizing the US.

As for the church bombing - everybody agrees that it was wrong, evil and horrible. Nobody said that it was good and that they deserved it. What people said was that it wasn&#39;t surprising.

Please, lighten up. Nobody in this thread is out to bash your beloved home-country. As for the other stuff, I don&#39;t need to post - I agree 100% with all that Oligo and Longinius have posted so far.

[theavonlady]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,13:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Please, lighten up. Nobody in this thread is out to bash your beloved home-country.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Then don&#39;t, plain and simple.

The example didn&#39;t even fit the case. Nuf&#39; sed.

[nordin dk]

He didn&#39;t for christs sake&#33;&#33;

He might as well have used a Danish, German, Japanese, Nepalese, Congolese, Samoan person for that story....
It would have made no difference to the morale of the story.

If it is the morale of the story, or the injustice of the world that you do not agree with, then say so.

Why do you take it so personally?

If you simply insist that he hates your country no matter what, then you have really really big problems.
Don&#39;t make an enemy out of him, when he is not.

Sheesh, what&#39;s next...are you going to accuse me of bashing your country now?

[theavonlady]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,14:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He didn&#39;t for christs sake&#33;&#33;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As you like it.

[nordin dk]

Is that all you can say?

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[theavonlady]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,14:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is that all you can say?

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No.

[Oligo]

No need to fight about this. As far as I understood, I managed to relay my point across. That&#39;s all that matters.

[nordin dk]

Apparently not, since it&#39;s being misinterpreted and twisted around. I don&#39;t necessarily agree with your opinion, but that doesn&#39;t mean I should just accuse you of having a bias towards my country.

That is the sort of attitude that causes problems, more than anything else in the world.

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,13:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That is the sort of attitude that causes problems, more than anything else in the world.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I&#39;d have to agree that this sort of attitude is not the best thing in the world. The important thing is not to get provoked when faced with such attitude: The whole exchange will just deterioriate into a screaming war.

[nordin dk]

I think it is very frustrating...

[Oligo]

The world is frustrating more often than it is not...

[Hardliner]

Its strange how people are so easy to get frustrated and insulted by things. I&#39;m not picking on anyone here. I&#39;v been insulted to the point where I don&#39;t care what people say about me anymore. What they say about me is irrelivent. What people say about the country I live in is irrelivent. What people say about the flag I have here is irrlivent. So go ahead, if you don&#39;t like me or my comments say so. I don&#39;t give a dam what you think about me. What I would like to see is a world where everyone has certain rights and have NO right to take anger out on others AND ALSO have NO right to exploit others&#33; The USA, Middle East and many other countries included for example. I am not attacking anyone nation. I just get sick of seeing certain countries exploiting others or bombing other countries and so forth plus all the back stabbing certain countries do. I&#39;m at the point now of being ashamed of being human http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Well no I have been ashamed for a while. I&#39;m also at the point of not caring about anything anymore http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif whats the point with all the shit that goes on? whats the point when you just get abused because you have an indipendant opinion and have the balls to state it?

Oh christ another long post... I might as well stop here seeing as most people wouldn&#39;t listen anyway http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I have so much to say yet there is no point in saying it as the only main responce would be insults. All this is getting too primitive. Words solve nothing.

[Hilandor]

i think peoples points of view are of the upmost importance, whatever they are, the good thing here for instance is the many different countries involved in the discussion  jeez 10 -20 years ago  i doubt many of us would have been aware of such things that happen in other countries, now we hear about it every day,
and i for one realise now how lucky i am where  i live, that we dont have to endure some of the horrific things such as happen in countries where some of the forum members come from

Il also say that having sat for ages reading thru the thread, that although the different opinions are clashing, its still producing good thought provoking messages, and no abuse which is admirable

But i think what also has to be noted is that becuase there are so many cultures and countries on the internet  and indeed this forum that its very unlikely that everyone will be in agreement with a topic, it doesnt necesarily mean anyone is right or wrong  but each have their own thots and reasons behind their answers.    After all wouldnt it be crap if everyone agreed all the time, forum would be dead =[[[

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What I think is really funky is when gunmen attack the Indian parliament and it barely gets mentioned in the news. Imagine if the White House was assaulted by gunmen...  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Perhaps you need to address that point to the Finnish media, when the attack on the Indian parliament happened I saw a hell of a lot of coverage of it on the English news programs http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Akira]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,16:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What I think is really funky is when gunmen attack the Indian parliament and it barely gets mentioned in the news. Imagine if the White House was assaulted by gunmen...  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Perhaps you need to address that point to the Finnish media, when the attack on the Indian parliament happened I saw a hell of a lot of coverage of it on the English news programs http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Me too. It was all over our news....sounds like a Finnish thing http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,16:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Me too. It was all over our news....sounds like a Finnish thing http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That&#39;s kind of the thing I was trying to touch upon in my post in the Israeli thread (admittedly I didn&#39;t do too good a job of expressing my point, tis what happens on the very few occasions my emotions win over what I&#39;m typing)......

Oligo didn&#39;t see much on his media about the India parliament attack so he assumed it wasn&#39;t widely covered because it was in India and not in the US, when in fact it was widely covered but either not widely covered in Finland or he simply missed it.........

Here they were going on about it for a couple of days (and rightly so) live feed of it happening, recap of what happened, thoughts, opinions and analysis of what happened, why it happened, who did it, etc. etc. etc. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Hardliner]

Shit did I write all that? me want peace? BULLSHIT&#33; HA&#33; I am the war type&#33; The world would be a dull place if everything was great and fluffy with pink flowers, rainbows and teddy bears with little red hearts saying "I love you"... HAHAHA great&#33; Let the war begin&#33; Actions speak louder than words&#33; Hint: if you want to fight in a war.. being xenophobic is the way to go&#33;

*sigh* Don&#39;t mind me I just go through mood changes. It would be a dam boring place if everyone was peaceful&#33;

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,17:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Shit did I write all that? me want peace? BULLSHIT&#33; HA&#33; I am the war type&#33; The world would be a dull place if everything was great and fluffy with pink flowers, rainbows and teddy bears with little red hearts saying "I love you"... HAHAHA great&#33; Let the war begin&#33; Actions speak louder than words&#33; Hint: if you want to fight in a war.. being xenophobic is the way to go&#33;

*sigh* Don&#39;t mind me I just go through mood changes. It would be a dam boring place if everyone was peaceful&#33;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have some pictures from my tour in Kosovo, that you should see. I can&#39;t post them since it would break the rules of the forum. I sincerely doubt that you would glorify war after seeing the things that I have seen there. And that was *after* the worst things had been cleaned up.

If your post was sarcastic, and I missed it, then never mind. If not, how can you expect anybody to take you or your opinions seriously after making such a post?

[Pete]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,16:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Perhaps you need to address that point to the Finnish media, when the attack on the Indian parliament happened I saw a hell of a lot of coverage of it on the English news programs http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
you BASTARD&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

flaming finland are we huh, huh??

you ALWAYS favoured the swedes (such as snake..) damn fine moderator you are with your EXTREME biased opinions&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


*takes relaxing pills*


http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

*runs and hides*

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,18:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you ALWAYS favoured the swedes (such as snake..)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Relax mate. Finland is Sweden http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Pete]

aaaah....feels much better after accusing someone for being anti-finnish http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


didnt give me better insight of the minds of those who defend everything by saying that "WE are so hated by you for NO reason at all other than plain racism" tho http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif



anyways....longinus posted something that was kinda correct....why debate something everyone agrees on?

the church thing...bad.

terrorists...bad


i wouldnt have commented at all unless these terrorists got linked with the x-ray non-pows and human rights...stupid logic and reasoning catches my attention.

[Hardliner]

Ahh sarcastic yes in a way. I don&#39;t know why I posted it. I don&#39;t think anyone gives a shit about my posts anyway. Americans just shoot me, and now they will. Being depressed does not help when posting on here... Plus I have already seen pictures of war... documentries.. and yes I already know that its not the same as being there. I don&#39;t glorify anything but if it seemed to you that I did then I guess I put it all wrong. I&#39;m sure people will just use this against me now. Oh well. Go ahead.

Its not like anyone takes me serioursly anyway. They just say I come up with anti US bullshit anyway. It wouldn&#39;t matter if I saw them pictures... I&#39;v seen it before... I don&#39;t get sick over things like that.. life is so pathetically bullshit to me anyway now. besides in the other post I stated that I&#39;v had it with everything. Last time I was this bad or in fact worse I was at school being picked on all the time thats when my life went down the drain, everything started messing up, I lost the will to go on. But of course noone cared and I had to pull through myself. Why should I care for a race that just insults and destroys itself? Why should I even try to pick this race up from the death and destruction that it has itself caused? Why should I help people that would just tell me to fuck off anyway? And why should I try to make contructive critisiem when I just get blasted by anything american?

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you BASTARD&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

flaming finland are we huh, huh??

you ALWAYS favoured the swedes (such as snake..) damn fine moderator you are with your EXTREME biased opinions&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


*takes relaxing pills*[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
LMAO you know you&#39;ll always be my fave Fin, well after D.Inc of course http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[foxer]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,16:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What I think is really funky is when gunmen attack the Indian parliament and it barely gets mentioned in the news. Imagine if the White House was assaulted by gunmen...  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Perhaps you need to address that point to the Finnish media, when the attack on the Indian parliament happened I saw a hell of a lot of coverage of it on the English news programs http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I did to.Something must be wrong with their media.

[Thehamster]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [USMC] @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,00:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (Thehamster @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,23:34)
Quote (nordin dk @<hidden> Mar. 17 2002,22:20)
Quote  
What good does it do taking a life for another life it does not bring them a dead person back.

Capital punishment is one of the few barbaric parts of society left in the 1st world in the countries where the majority people know no better and are socially backwards.  



I agree with you, but I guess you know...  
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Put it this way: A guy rapes and kills a woman. Hes brought to trial and is found guilty. He either gets life in prison, with possible parole (no joke, ppl like this get parole all the time), or he gets sentenced to death by lethal injection.
Without the death penalty, this convict spends the rest of his life living off taxpayers money, with a number of chances to escape or be let out.
If he is put to death by lethal injection, he is subjected to about the most humane and painless way to end a persons life ever devised.
In a perfect world, we wouldnt need the death penalty. But, we dont, and so we need a viable deterrent to keep people from thinking that they can take a life and get free room and board for the rest of their life.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I rather pay for him; I find state sanctioned death disgusting.
Also just think of all the people that have been wrongly convicted and murdered because the State says it is okay.

[Red Oct]

well im for capitol punishment if it has been proven that the killer:

1. knowing knew that the act he or she was doing was wrong
or
2. did the act w/ prejudace
or
3. did over something incredibley stupid that involved a small claim
or
4. involved the murder of a police man or other law enforcment, fire fighter, paramedic or other medical staff

personally i feel that people who break the law, pay the concequences, and the concequences should be strick

[Tovarish]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,23:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2. did the act w/ prejudace[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I guess I&#39;ll just go kill someone i&#39;m not prejudiced against then....man that really dosen&#39;t make much sense

[Red Oct]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,23:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,23:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2. did the act w/ prejudace[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I guess I&#39;ll just go kill someone i&#39;m not prejudiced against then....man that really dosen&#39;t make much sense[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
no you missunderstood, i didnt mean that by racism, i meant prejudice as in did it in a hateful, very aggressive, and cruel, manner, not involving race, u can use prejudice like that.

[Tovarish]

No I understood...but it still dosen&#39;t make sense. Do you mean if I go into the street and start shooting people indiscriminately "just cause", that I should be shown more leniency than someone who targeted someone because of hatred?

[Red Oct]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,23:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No I understood...but it still dosen&#39;t make sense. Do you mean if I go into the street and start shooting people indiscriminately "just cause", that I should be shown more leniency than someone who targeted someone because of hatred?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

o ok now i know what you mean just ad 2 w/ 1 than i guess

[second_draw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,13:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">An example: An israeli jew walks alone into the palestinian areas in West Bank and shouts: "You palestinians are just scum. You should all be killed." Promptly some pissed palestinians beat the jew to death. Was it wrong to kill the jew? Yes. Was the jew stupid for doing what he did? Yes[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oligo never said this was the right thing to do and as Oligo has said many times over & over in defence... it was an example of wrong behavior. I used wrong as stupid is too generalised and this is a clear example of wrong behavior. OK?  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,16:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Perhaps you need to address that point to the Finnish media, when the attack on the Indian parliament happened I saw a hell of a lot of coverage of it on the English news programs http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don&#39;t much follow the Finnish media, because they have a lot of reporting on the actions of our dear politicians. This totally makes me sick. As long as I don&#39;t actually see our leaders making retarded comments and opinions, I can IMAGINE that there is still some common sense in our leaders.

Funny. Once I watched a live broadcast from the meeting of our parliament for 20 minutes. Then I had to turn off the telly and contemplate whether I should make a little armed assault to OUR parliament. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

But I must admit I relied on our media to report the Indian parliament incident. So I either missed all the coverage (entirely possible if I was having a drinking spree http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) except the one footnote I saw on the news OR they just didn&#39;t broadcast anything except the one footnote (a video clip of some people with guns and the commentator saying that by the way the parliament of India got attacked by some dudes).

[nordin dk]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @<hidden> Mar. 18 2002,18:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ahh sarcastic yes in a way. I don&#39;t know why I posted it. I don&#39;t think anyone gives a shit about my posts anyway. Americans just shoot me, and now they will. Being depressed does not help when posting on here... Plus I have already seen pictures of war... documentries.. and yes I already know that its not the same as being there. I don&#39;t glorify anything but if it seemed to you that I did then I guess I put it all wrong. I&#39;m sure people will just use this against me now. Oh well. Go ahead.

Its not like anyone takes me serioursly anyway. They just say I come up with anti US bullshit anyway. It wouldn&#39;t matter if I saw them pictures... I&#39;v seen it before... I don&#39;t get sick over things like that.. life is so pathetically bullshit to me anyway now. besides in the other post I stated that I&#39;v had it with everything. Last time I was this bad or in fact worse I was at school being picked on all the time thats when my life went down the drain, everything started messing up, I lost the will to go on. But of course noone cared and I had to pull through myself. Why should I care for a race that just insults and destroys itself? Why should I even try to pick this race up from the death and destruction that it has itself caused? Why should I help people that would just tell me to fuck off anyway? And why should I try to make contructive critisiem when I just get blasted by anything american?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You need to lighten up.
You are just as entitled to your opinion as eveyone else.
Nobody is picking on you.

We all have bullshit in our life.
We all have to deal with it.