1-6 Behind Enemy Lines [Archive] - Bohemia Interactive Forums

nominesine

Jul 12 2009, 19:25

Not only is Laggy banned for violating the forums rules (quite flagranttly if you ask me). :rolleyes: He's also in Paris, celebrating his girlfriends 30th birthday. I can answer some questions for him, since I've been beta-testing the mission with him while he was building it. Bear in mind though, that I am not the mission designer. Only his guinnea pig :p

A lot of the answers sought in this thread has already been answered by Laggy in the Ofpec-forum (http://www.ofpec.com/forum/index.php?topic=33587.0). Among them a lenhthy discussion concerning endtriggers that do not fire.

EDIT: Spelling

Tempest67

Jul 13 2009, 18:46

The end trigger requires all surviving team members to return to base together. Did you leave any members behind during your cross country travelling?

That was it. I hadn't realised they all had to survive. Doh!

Cheers.

nominesine

Jul 14 2009, 02:31

They don't have to survive actually, as long as allsurviving tem mebers return back to base.
;)

THEBLITZ6794

Jul 14 2009, 04:20

wut did laggy do?

nominesine

Jul 14 2009, 22:04

He's been working on a way to introduce moving pictures into OFP/Armed Assault/ArmA2 for as long as I can remember. A week ago he succeded and sent me a missionette where some soldiers were looking at film inside a hangar building. Really good job, though the movie itself sucked. He also made a short youtube video of the mission and posted a link to it in these forums. That was his downfall. It's been removed now, as the content of that film was a wee bit pornographic. His final post is here (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=79283). I don't know if he's permanently banned or on a longer supension. Time will tell. Meanwhile he's quite active on the OFPEC Forums (http://www.ofpec.com). And Behind Enemy Lines doesn't contain any sex at all. Only a huge amount of mindless violence, wich isn't against the rules.
;)

AT Soldier

Jul 14 2009, 23:28

Well...banned or not I just have to commend him on a tense and interesting mission. This mission really showcase what ARMA 2 does right. A great sense of being there combined with alot of tension.
Also this is one FPS where , if you know the enemy's nearby , then shootingt him isn't always the answer.

Great stuff, I'll check OFPEC for more great stuff from him .

//Niklas

nominesine

Jul 15 2009, 07:33

I agree: It's a damn good mission. Or to put it in your own language: Det rockar fett! :)

El_MUERkO

Jul 15 2009, 12:58

we had good fun on the mission, got ahead of the chasing pack and picked them off a load of them from the treeline, then a friendly LAV turned up and drilled the rest of them, we made it to a town and nicked some cars and raced eachother the rest of the way south :)

nominesine

Jul 15 2009, 14:27

Did you go to the tree line south-west of the downed chopper? Just behind a small road where you gain an advantage of height on the enemy? It's my favourite position too when it comes to fend of the dogs.

Going east was much harder, since the enemies gained the advantage on height on us as we ran away. My worst mistake was to hide in a nearby barn. I believe it's to the north of the crash site. The whole squad was surrounded and couldn't get out as the enemy called more and more reinforcements to our position. The firefight became short and fierce. It was a total failure on my behalf, but a very memorable gaming session. My best death ever.

AT Soldier

Jul 16 2009, 09:54

Everyone on these forums should check this out.

nominesine

Jul 17 2009, 08:45

Totally agree on that one.

1212PDMCDMPPM

Jul 17 2009, 09:47

I tried it yesterday: I was engaged by a small squad then 2 UAZs. One went in to flames but I stole the second one and drove back to base without encountering a single OPFOR after that.
Did I miss something ?

Alpha-Kilo

Jul 17 2009, 11:25

I read this thread and the one at OFPEC. Unfortunately I cannot download it from OFPEC.

The mission directory doesn't list a single entry for ArmA2. For ArmA1 and OFP missions and campaigns are listed. Am I doing something wrong? Do I have to register for ArmA2? I searched the forum at OFPEC but I didn't find any help. Could someone please tell me how to use the OFPEC website?

This is a general request and not related to this particular mission which I have found at Armaholic. If it is too much off-topic, please simply disregard this posting.

nominesine

Jul 17 2009, 13:10

@<hidden>: The only thing you seem to have missed is that it is a heavily randomized mission that will never play the same way twice. As the feedback given here and elsewhere implies it can sometimes be a walk in the park, sometimes a real killer. But you cannot know in advance. That's the beauty of it.

@<hidden>:The mission is still undergoing testing in the OFPEC BETA Test Forum (http://www.ofpec.com/forum/index.php?topic=33587.0). The mission is attached to the first post in the thread. Scroll down and click on the download link. The current version is 0.92 BETA. I suspect that the final version will only contain very small changes compared to the one provided, if any. In my opinion it's almost flawless as it is.

Alpha-Kilo

Jul 17 2009, 13:55

nominesine,

noted with thanks. The link worked fine. I already suggested this mission to my group and I hope I can give some feedback soon.

nominesine

Jul 17 2009, 14:57

I'm sure Laggy will appreciate it. Remember that he cannot see any feedback you give him in this thread though. But we still allow him to visit Ofpec, as long as he's kept on a tight leash ;)

Alpha-Kilo

Jul 18 2009, 00:48

nominesine,

please give Laggy my regards. We played the mission and it was not laggy at all. From reading the forum threads we knew what to expect so we survived the first skirmishes and made it to relative safety. After approximately 50 minutes someone said: "We are making good progress and the mission is not very hard." 30 seconds later we were all dead.

So we played again, this time more carefully and it took us one hour and 7 minutes to reach the base. Our medic was killed at the beginning of the mission but we did not have any more casualties.

The best thing about this mission is that it really forces the players to play in a slow and disciplined way and fully concentrated at all times. We are definitely going to play it again and I will also try it in SP mode.

We noticed something strange at the end of the mission: Our group reached the base and we approached the officer who was standing next to his desk. He said: "I will only tell you my name, rank and serial number." as if we were enemies capturing him. But then we heard the music and a message informed us of the successful completion of the mission. Did we trigger the wrong ending somehow or is the officer supposed to say this sentence?

The Outcast

Jul 18 2009, 23:50

@<hidden> alpha-kilo

Glad you enjoyed the mission, I did too.

The officer at the end speaking "weirdly" is the standard built-in conversation system in ArmAII. It has nothing to do with the mission design. Try it out in the editor yourself by placing some friendlies (not in your group) and they will probably give the same "out of place" response.

I guess Laggy didn't know how to turn that function off yet, ArmAII is after all pretty new for all of us.

The Outcast

chaplainDMK

Jul 19 2009, 19:23

Alpha-Kilo

Jul 19 2009, 21:55

The Outcast,

thanks for your explanation!

The Outcast

Jul 20 2009, 22:58

Latest version (most likely final) of this mission can be found here:

http://www.ofpec.com/forum/index.php?topic=33587.msg231472#msg231472

During testing, this mission has sometimes turned out to be one of the most intense missions I have ever played.
It now has an outro added as well as some surprises :)

nominesine

Jul 21 2009, 06:43

I took part in the final BETA-test of the mission yesterday and even though I've played through the mission more than 20 times it still amazes me. The 0.95 version seems to be the "release" version, since Laggy asked Ofpec to review the mision as well. Version 0.95 highlights include:

Higher difficulty
An outstanding outro
Some really scary artillery attacks

I totally recommend it. It's a top notch quality mission. At the moment, Behind Enemy Lines is THE bes mission available for ArmA2, in my humble opinion.

El_MUERkO

Jul 21 2009, 12:42

i'll grab that for my server tonight so :)

The Outcast

Jul 21 2009, 13:21

i'll grab that for my server tonight so :)

Great! Hope it will keep you busy and entertained, just make sure it's the 0.95 version.

You can post any feedback in this thread, since Laggy (who is banned from this forum) has asked me to keep an eye on this thread.

The Outcast

Mafiozo

Jul 21 2009, 22:33

Started playing the Mission earlier, with a smile because of the humor. Really enjoying it so far, I got ArmA 2 a week ago after much anticipation and frustrating delays in getting it, and just today when playing this game I suddenly got this "OFP" feeling. feels like I'm back home. Thank you!

nominesine

Jul 23 2009, 06:35

Had another go at this one all by myself last night. Damn! This mission is hard to beat. Almost three hours of overland trekking, dodging bullets, hiding in desolate barns and crawling through dense forests to avoid being shot. And I still didn't make it back to base. But I hade great fun. Has someone tested the mission with only human players and no AI in the team?

Alpha-Kilo

Jul 23 2009, 10:42

nominesine,

I tested version 0.92 with only human players except the pilot. It was challenging and we needed a little more than an hour to reach the base.

Last night I started version 0.95 as single player and after half an hour I had already lost most of my team. My current position is roughly 2 km northwest of the crash site, just before crossing a foot path and reaching a forest. I guess I won't be able to make it to safety.

I find it incredibly hard to control the AI efficiently and I prefer to play team missions with humans. This one is no exception.

nominesine

Jul 23 2009, 11:45

Version 0.95 is significantly more difficult than it's predecessors. I tried it with Laggy playing as our team leader (thinking that the mission designer would be able to beat his own creation). We still failed miserably despite three attempts :)

Alpha-Kilo

Jul 23 2009, 15:37

Sounds great! I will try 0.95 with an all human team.

The Outcast

Jul 24 2009, 22:49

Anyone found any bugs or annoyances in 0.95 version ?

Otherwise I'll tell Laggy that the mission seems to be done.

Alpha-Kilo

Jul 25 2009, 07:08

I have completed 0.95 in single player mode. As I said before, I lost several men at the beginning of the game. For me, this was the most difficult phase of the mission. After that, not much happened and I reached safety as a fire team leader instead of a squad leader.

I used forests and hills as cover and avoided enemy contact as much as possible. My men were issued the "hold fire" command. Before crossing open spaces I carefully scanned the area from a concealed position and then we dashed into the safety of the next forest. I followed this routine until we reached the base. For me this version was very similar to 0.92 even though I chose a different route. This time I approached the base via the village in the northeast.

After reading that this version was supposed to be more difficult than its predecessors, I expected at least some enemy presence at the end of the mission. Even a weak enemy might have at least have a few spotters watch the base. Some enemy groups lying in wait of possible convoys or targets of opportunity would also seem believable. A strong enemy might even have roadblocks on the main road and/or some tents with reinforcements in the area. The friendlies might send out patrols to secure the vicinity of the base. This kind of activity would provide an additional challenge to the group. Some of it may have to be scripted and randomized with Kronsky's patrol script or similar means. An option to skip a few hours and try and sneak into the base after nightfall might also be worth considering - though I personally don't like night missions in the ArmA world except in full moon - always on the 15th of a month in the ArmA2 world.

Something strange happened at the end: I approached the officer and ended the mission. This time, no "weird talk", thanks for changing that. The outro was strange, though. With the survivors of my team I was facing the body bags of those who had not made it home. A helicopter was waiting. We saluted the fallen.

Suddenly I heard machine gun fire and two of my survivors were shot down. As this was the outro I had no control. I was not hit and the mission ended.

Then, I remembered that when I pushed the middle mouse button to report to the officer a voice called out an enemy APC. I had seen one during my final approach. It had not been able to shoot at us but it may have spotted and followed us. But there were so many armed vehicles and friendly soldiers in the base that I did not consider this single APC a threat and decided to end the mission. Could this APC ruin the outro or was this one the surprises of version 0.95?

Criticizing the uneventful part of the mission may be unjustified because the mission relies on the modules - perhaps I was just lucky or the extra difficulties were programmed to happen in areas which I chose to avoid. I must also say that a serious battle would surely have obliterated my team because I am not good at commanding AI. And a feeling of suspense is always there, even if nothing happens. This makes this mission a favourite.

The Outcast

Jul 25 2009, 10:55

Thanks a lot for the serious feedback alpha-kilo. Laggy will really appreciate it.

Regarding your "walk in the park" after the initial contact, it seems like you were extremely lucky (or skilled :)) since the enemy is active all the way down to Chernogorsk.

The idea of a skiptime option sounds interesting and I'll recommend it. Not sure if it would make sense though since some patrols are tracking you and if you skiptime you'll probably have to setpos all the visible enemies to make it feel realistic. That could also be used for cheating... Hmmm this is a tough one.

The chaos during the outro is NOT supposed to happen and never has during my sessions. However, it did for you and I'll tell Laggy about this bug which will make him fix it and release a most likely final version. It again has to do with the modules. Much obliged for this info.

Again, thanks a lot for your input and great that you like the mission.

The Outcast

MaXyM

Jul 25 2009, 14:13

Thank you for the mission.

I'm quite inexperienced player even if I played in OFP 10u ago. But I found this mission very entertaining (yeah, I know, that war and death should not make a fun).

However very good mission and what surprising me a lot, clue to get the base is not shooting but avoiding contact with enemies. I suspect it is very close to reality (in opposite to shooting anything moving)

Best regards

The Outcast

Jul 25 2009, 16:33

clue to get the base is not shooting but avoiding contact with enemies. I suspect it is very close to reality (in opposite to shooting anything moving)

You got it right for sure, fighting only if necessary is a good strategy. In real life if you wanted to get back home I doubt you would engage your enemies if you could avoid it.

Thanks for the positive words MaXyM :) I'll tell Laggy.

The Outcast

laggy

Jul 28 2009, 10:45

Hello all of you,

Thank you so much for all the positive words and serious feedback on this mission. I could never have hoped that it would get this kind of response. Thanks to nominesine and The Outcast, for answering questions while I was away and keeping the dialogue alive. Now, I'm currently working on a 0.96 version and I intend to make it the final version. I just wonder if anyone has encountered any additional bugs, not previously discussed above.

Version 0.96 will so far fix the following issues:

- No possibility of enemy spawn during outro, this was sometimes caused by a faulty ACM module setting.
- No more weird conversations with friendlies, this was caused by the setCaptive command in combination with the built-in conversation system.
- The difficulty and enemy presence will be a little more even through out the mission. The last part in the south can/will now be more eventful.

Please let me know if you have any other bugs or annoyances to report.
I would be very grateful for your input during the last polishing stages of this mission.

Thanks again everyone, you all made this mission designer very happy :yay:

Sincerely,

Laggy

Reapy

Jul 28 2009, 17:11

Thanks for the mission, Laggy :)

Very sympatic and funny ambiance, good moments spent with my mates.

Just one thing, once we have grab a truck, nobody tried to stop us on our road to the base. So I find the end a little more easy, but maybe we was in lucky day :)

Alpha-Kilo

Jul 28 2009, 17:52

Reaper,

I daresay, this was luck. My group also tried to take a truck and we were spotted by an APC. We dismounted and hid in a village before the APC could shoot. One of us destroyed the APC but there was a skirmish with a few enemies who engaged us on foot.

After this fight we continued our journey with the truck. On a narrow road in a forest we were attacked by a UAZ with a machinegun. This time most of our team were shot down immediately. I was the medic. In this role I avoided the confrontation and jumped off the truck at the first sight of the enemy. I was lucky to make it into the safety of the trees. Soon I was the only survivor. I tried to shoot the gunner but I was killed by a second UAZ I had not even seen.

This was our last attempt to beat this mission using vehicles. The engine sound makes it too difficult to check for enemies. We found hiking and hiding worked better for us. Perhaps I would try it with bicycles if there were any at our disposal, but certainly not with engine-powered vehicles.

Laggy,

Good to see your ban has been lifted!

laggy

Jul 28 2009, 21:11

[FAR]-Reaper and alpha-kilo,

Thank you so much for all the feedback and positive words.

The mission is indeed very random, since it uses the ACM module quite a lot. During the last sessions me and nominesine just couldn't make it any further than 1 km away from the crash site. We really did our best three times, but always ended up being surrounded in a forest or stuck in a barn somewhere with UAZs roaming outside. Once a local or villager with a hunting rifle got me from 1 km away while I was desperately reading the map, trying to find out where we were.

I recommend playing this mission in veteran mode, then you really have to deal with the realistic problems of getting lost and loosing track of enemy positions.

The dog tracking groups are also a real threat, until you shoot the dogs they will continue to hunt you down. Them closing in behind you and anything being expected in front of you creates a panicky feeling when choosing between two evils: Run for your life without a real plan or stop and neutralize the followers with the risk of being surrounded.

You might think that the mission designer always should be able to beat his own missions unless it is physically possible, but definitely no. I have no idea where the next threat will appear and part from knowing in which areas to stay extra aware I still have a hard time beating this, unless the mission loaded turns out to be a somewhat "walk in the park". However, that has never happened to me so far.

Am I born with bad luck or what?

Unless anyone has a bug/annoyance report I think I'll release the 0.96 version in a couple of days. Hope you try it and enjoy it because it is most likely final.

Cheers,

Laggy

MasterSniper

Jul 29 2009, 13:11

Really awesome mission man, I'm loving it. The only problem is that sometimes it's stupidly easy and sometimes it's near impossible, but I guess that's a consequence of it being random.

laggy

Jul 29 2009, 18:56

Really awesome mission man, I'm loving it. The only problem is that sometimes it's stupidly easy and sometimes it's near impossible, but I guess that's a consequence of it being random.

Thanks,

Seems like you have had more luck with the random elements than me.
I have only succeeded ONE single time myself, part from the cheating mode during beta testing.
Either I'm extremely haunted by bad luck, or I just suck as a player in ArmAII.
Maybe a mix of both.

The 0.96 version (most likely final) will however make the mission somewhat less inconsistent in terms of difficulty. Not too much, since the tension, unpredictability and surprise element is needed. I think.

Cheers

shark-attack

Jul 30 2009, 16:34

one word mate

Classic

really enjoying this ... An inspiration to all budding mission makers like myself ...

top draw mate :)

CaptainBravo

Jul 30 2009, 16:43

This is certainly a 5 star mission! One of the few that deserve to be an official mission! LOVED the intro!

I have also tried it as a night time mission and it was FANTASTIC!

I look forward to more missions from you!

Good job laggy!

laggy

Jul 31 2009, 00:15

@<hidden> shark-attack and CaptainBravo

Thanks dear buddies... but please stop... If you continue you'll make me cry :cry2:

I wouldn't want that, it would destroy my image as a masculine intro maker , forever.

Really appreciate the positive feedback, just hope you'll like the next creation as much.

Love you guys... In a manly, macho, just friendly kind of way of course :blush:

I have also tried it as a night time mission and it was FANTASTIC!

Could you brief me on this experience? Would really appreciate it, since I might consider a night time option in the MP lobby.

Laggy

Jeza

Jul 31 2009, 03:06

Cheers for the time & effort you put into this buddy, payed off in my eyes. Did each version twice, proberly eneded up taking me 6hours all goes included, and time well spent, the atmosphere is great, the enemy isnt over the top, its just about right and the whole story keeps you on your toes. I also tried the mission in night time as well, had a good experiance with it, had to be much more carefull where you went lol, but took longer, and far as i am concerned longer the better.
I look forward to your next release, great work.

InFireBaptize

Jul 31 2009, 11:20

i haven't gone far with the mission yet but everything was amazing from the get go. The feeling of being surrounded at the crash site, enemies from different directions, the sound of dogs barking, the survival aspect of it, all will make your heart race, Great mission idea.

kozzy420

Aug 5 2009, 22:42

Thanks laggy! I just finished downloading, will let you know how I enjoyed it later!

If you need any voice acting or original music/isntrumentals for any upcoming stuff you are working on let me know!*

Aelin

Aug 6 2009, 11:20

awesome mission mate...well done.i think it s the best avaiable for now but how to set it at night?

laggy

Aug 6 2009, 16:36

awesome mission mate...well done.i think it s the best avaiable for now but how to set it at night?

Thanks a lot,

I'm currently touching up the last stuff on 0.96 version (final).
I will most likely add a parameter in the mission so that you can choose night as well.

Meanwhile, you can hide and wait for 1.5 hours in the game itself ;)
Or open it up in the editor, after unPBOing it.

Laggy

laggy

Sep 6 2009, 15:02

Mission updated to v0.97

THIS is hopefully final :)

Hope you enjoy,

Laggy

Tomcos

Sep 6 2009, 22:23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1xqJQ_J70

This gets very annoying. This goes on for about a minute, then it just hovers over ground, nothing happens after that. :confused:

CaptainBravo

Sep 7 2009, 11:40

Still one of the best missions we play in MP.

Difficulty:
It is pretty har in the first half of map, but once you gotton away from initial enemy groups, I have found it pretty easy way back to base

Recommendation:
Perhaps set up quick enemy helipcopter insertion near player once he has been spotted.

Only bug I noticed is once leader of group (player) dies and respawns he did not respawn as 2nd in command and he lost command to AI. That ruins the mission as AI will not move.

Anyway to ensure only player gets command once he respawns?

Aside from these minor issues, FANTASTIC MISSION!

I am looking forward to your next mission!

laggy

Sep 7 2009, 12:07

@<hidden>

That's wierd, never happens to me or anyone else, that I know of.
Try to download the mission again, maybe the file is corrupted.

@<hidden>

Thanks a lot for the thumbs up,

The respawn bug is related to the First Aid Module, I think.
Never happened before I implemented that one.
A human leader has ALWAYS respawned to the new leader if that unit is not occupied by another player.
I might include a "move" script that kicks in if the leader position changes to AI.
If BIS would correct the actual bug, that would be better :) Hope I'm right... but I'm pretty sure.

About the calmness in the later half of the mission, I want to hear more feedback, since the mission is very random.
The idea is that all hell can break loose, just when you started feeling safe.

Thanks both, your feedback is very helpful.

Laggy

Tomcos

Sep 7 2009, 13:23

Tried downloading it again, but same thing happens. :(

laggy

Sep 7 2009, 14:07

Did you play in SP, hosted MP or on Dedicated server?

Do you use any addons?

Which ArmA2 version are you running?

I have tried the mission many times in all three modes, and I have never encountered that issue.

Laggy

Tomcos

Sep 7 2009, 14:16

Did you play in SP, hosted MP or on Dedicated server?

Do you use any addons?

SP, lots of addons, but I tried with no addons, and got this message "You can not play/edit this mission; it is dependent on downloadable content that has been deleted.vops_c_guns"

laggy

Sep 7 2009, 14:23

OK,

Sounds like an ArmA2 bug related to your addons, weird that you get the message: "You can not play/edit this mission; it is dependent on downloadable content that has been deleted.vops_c_guns".

The mission is made without any addons whatsoever, just plain vanilla ArmA2. I don't even have any addons installed, so there is no way I could have used any by mistake.

I'm afraid I can't help you with this problem.

I would be very careful with the usage of addons, since they often screw things up. I would only use creations which are known to be bug-free. That's what I did in ArmA1, and I never had any issues at all.

-Is this an addon you have or did have: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=74004 ? I believe your message relates to that addon.

-Are you sure you have the official 1.03 ArmA2 version?

Laggy

CaptainBravo

Sep 7 2009, 20:35

vops_c_guns is part of the VOP sound mod
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=74004

If you played the mission in editor with sound mod and saved it, it will save it with soundmod as addon.

Either re download VOP mod or open mission (with notepad) and delete soundmod reference.

laggy

Sep 7 2009, 20:58

Dear "Behind Enemy Lines" testers,

Thank you so much for all the feedback so far.

I'll be gone for a week now, and probably won't be able to answer any questions regarding this mission during that time.
Please post any feedback, and I'll check it as soon as possible.
I'm really trying to wrap this one up, so I can focus on new ideas.
Your opinions are invaluable, and I really want to make this mission a "classic".

Regards,

Laggy

Aelin

Sep 8 2009, 11:44

it needs some kind of roadblocks....i was able to finish the mission just driving a car without enemy encounters....

Grimm

Sep 8 2009, 11:56

Hello :)

I played it with some mates yesterday night, and had a lot of fun.

If I may say something about cons, wouldn't you consider to shorten it a little, or to make more events happen? We felt like it was a little bit empty, despite some very good ideas (I don't want to spoil here).

Thumbs up anyway, we enjoyed the trip!

laggy

Sep 8 2009, 12:04

Last check before traveling...

it needs some kind of roadblocks....i was able to finish the mission just driving a car without enemy encounters....

Hmmm... v0.97 has roadblocks.

Did you play v0.97?
Which route did you take if you remember?
All the possible roads to Chernogorsk should now be guarded, maybe I've missed something.
Another possibility is that the garbage collector module is doing something it shouldn't.

Thanks both of you,

Laggy

maturin

Sep 10 2009, 18:39

So the dogs actually chase you and signal enemy forces? I thought the barking was just ambient noise, but I actually had a German Shepherd chase me just as we got swarmed by APCs.

In general I would recommend more infantry squads in the middle third of the map. They are easy to avoid and won't ruin your plans like an APC, but can create some amazing, thrilling moments when they run right into you. Leave the last bit near Cherno free of enemies for when players are exhausted and impatient.

Also, stealing the script from Bitter Chill where Spetsnaz hunt you in a Mi-8 would be excellent.

Edit: Is it possible to take a civilian bus or ural?

plundera

Sep 15 2009, 10:08

Hi Laggy,
Loving this mission. Sure to be a classic worthy of Wikipeida!

Just one request: Would it be possible to have an 'extreme' version with the random encounters increased 250% and (if easy) double the number of tracker units? While it's challenging at the moment, an insane extreme version would be fantastic. I know it's probably asking to much.

Cheers anyway for a fantastic mission

CaptainBravo

Sep 15 2009, 13:17

What I would recommend for next version to add more tension:
- Helicopters searching for west group and based on sighting, trucks (even helicopter) repsawn 200 meters from player group and unload troops to go to last known position.

laggy

Sep 17 2009, 18:09

Thanks all for your feedback,

All taken into account, I promise.

Just one request: Would it be possible to have an 'extreme' version with the random encounters increased 250% and (if easy) double the number of tracker units? While it's challenging at the moment, an insane extreme version would be fantastic. I know it's probably asking to much.

Well, the random spawning of enemies (air, armor, infantry) is all done by the ACM module (ambient combat manager) built into the ArmA2 engine. I have a number of editor placed groups patrolling the map as well, but much of the randomness is really created by the ACM.

I find it problematic that the ACM is very unpredictable when you set its intensity (ranging from 0-1). It is set to the highest (1) in this mission, but still sometimes enemy spawning is very rare. I really wish BIS would adjust the ACM so that its intensity factor really makes a difference, ranging from very easy to really crazy (like you wish).

I guess I could create my own workaround scripts, but that would be very complicated, and then I might just create another mission. Hopefully BIS fixes this issue instead :)

I will take care of the mid/late part of the mission a bit more in the next release though.

Thanks again all,

Laggy

---------- Post added at 18:09 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ----------

Is it possible to take a civilian bus or ural?

Of course :)

plundera

Sep 18 2009, 02:10

Thanks for the response Laggy

Understood re: the limitations of the ACM module. I certainly concur the variance around enemy density is very high from our experiences. I appreciate there is no quick fix also.

Based on that my only suggestions would be:
>More set piece units in the back half of the map. The dog chasers make it tense in the first half. Some kind of equivilent for the back half would be great (someone mentioned a Mi8 hunter script might be easy to implement?)
>A few roaming solo snipers in a few of the forested areas where players might avoid the main roadways. There known presence would keep things tense at all times (I'm certain you've seen the movie "Behind Enemy Lines"!) .
>Static defenses on each major road at some stage, particuarly at major towns
>Some final horrible 'surprises' just outside Chernogorsk, just when you think your home

Thanks again - awesome mission in its current form (my suggestions are only due to my lust of an extreme challenge). I think it's a real winning reciepe "escape against overwhelming odds".

mlenser

Sep 18 2009, 05:52

Not a complaint at all as it has no effect on the game play but although I have completed the mission twice with only having lost the pilot it never shows a green completed icon in the main mission selection list.

CaptainBravo

Sep 18 2009, 08:18

The ACM is unpredictable and that explains why in some cases the mission was way too easy. (played it at least 12 times and finished it in 11 out of 12 with less than 2 casualties (enemies will stop giving chase once you have outrun them by a bit).

I recommend using Norrins UPS spawn script, more predictable and scalable and will add to intensity which this mission has already. It just needs that little extra spice for those of us who like it HOT! :)

laggy

Sep 18 2009, 13:50

Looking into the UPS right now, seems promising.

Thanks for the tip.

Laggy

mcvittees

Sep 26 2009, 21:45

Just played this with 6 people on a dedicated server and once we got past the rather hasty attack at the start, didn't really get troubled at all.

I'd recommend putting some plain and simple spawn triggers down to guarantee some contacts. You know where the players will end up so making sure they have some action shouldn't be too much of a problem.

laggy

Sep 26 2009, 22:46

"Last" version coming out very soon,

"Spiced up" the mission after "half-time",

Thanks for all the good feedback...

Laggy

plundera

Sep 28 2009, 00:51

Sounds great Laggy, looking forward to it

laggy

Sep 29 2009, 20:39

Mission updated to version 0.98

Anyone who now finds it too easy is either extremely lucky, great at ArmA2 or CRAZY ;)

Laggy

plundera

Oct 19 2009, 02:04

Hey Laggy,
Finally finished it last night after many attempts with 2 players.

>Once we could recognise the spawn 'pattern' of the enemy around the chopper in the initial phase it was easy to get to Gorkja or Novy Sober and get a car.
>The left flank of the map proved to be consistency dangerous with numerous patrols and UAV's calling in what we believe were motar attacks. Very cool.
>The tracker chopper was a real b@<hidden> Especially the large team of Spec-Ops which seem to have an extreme degree of skill! Our tactic was to attain an RPG from an early skirmish near the downed chopper, then ambush it in a clearing from covered terrain. Opening fire on it before it was vunerable was suicide. Very neat 'surprise'.
>We occasionally met a BMP patrol which appeared to track... we were able to evade it due to its low speed.
>We took out the parked armed 4x4's at Morlikevia (spelling?) and basically drove one through a roadblock to victory.

All in all difficulty was certain up on .97.
Cheers,

laggy

Oct 19 2009, 14:56

Thanks a lot for your feedback Plundera,

Did you host or play on a dedi?

Dedi players have sometimes complained about lack of action.

Laggy

plundera

Oct 20 2009, 00:49

Hi Laggy,
I host, although we are considering setting up a dedicated box, as hosting seems to shave off a few FPS on the large scenarios.

I'd say every time we have played .98 it has been pretty tense the entire time given the prospensity of the random encounters. Based on our observations, in particular the left flank of the map, or really, the 'top' left quater was particularly 'hot' (we have even seen Jets patrolling this area a couple times!). On the top right quater, after evading the static BMP + squad it is generally quiet all the way down to the main highway (after staying hard right) where I believe the tracker chopper trigger point is. The center tends to be quiet dangerous with patrols near the forest roads great at giving an ambush. We don't have that much experience on the back half of the map however as we tended to keep to the same route until we completed it. The road blocks were a nice touch although couldn't stop us due to their reaction time. Perhaps some static MG's to force players to either engage to use the roadway, or evade through the forest. We were surprised we could drive straight out from Moglivka after taking out the presence there.

While I'd say it was 'hard' there does appear to be an experience curve effect. After we had experience evading the inital groups (or engaging one to fight our way out from the crash site) we usually stuck to a similar plan. The degree of randomness is reasonably high so there was always some surprises though.

I certainly wouldn't say no to an even greater challenge!.. maybe the odd armour patrol!

The only other point I would make is using roads 'seemed' a little to easy (noting the roadblocks do exist however)... perhaps a few more of those jeep patrols or even the odd BMP patrolling. This would force the player to transverse in the wilderness to remain 'hidden' which is perhaps more realistic

laggy

Oct 20 2009, 20:09

Thanks a lot for the very good info Plundera.

Much appreciated and I believe the mission is now quite finished.

Will touch up a few more things (maybe road forces) and then release 0.99 version.

That will be final, I really have to continue my new projects.

On OFPEC, some MP beta testers (at least on dedi) have complained about lack of action.

90% of the testers have really liked the mission though, and I guess that is a good ratio, considering the massive randomness.

Cheers and thanks again,

Laggy

Col.Flanders

Oct 21 2009, 10:52

Hi laggy. Last night I played this with one other player and all I can say was it was bloody epic!

I ordered my game from the UK 6 or so days after the German release and received it about 2 weeks ago (big screw up in the post) so I have very few hours in A2 but for me, I can confidently say that it was one of my best co-op experiences since OFP.

Great stuff!

JumpingHubert

Oct 21 2009, 17:13

i like your Mission. I think its inspired by this film http://video.barnesandnoble.com/DVD/Behind-Enemy-Lines/Gene-Hackman/e/024543038030
Would be nice to see a campaign like this film!

regards from germany

Mclan

Oct 21 2009, 17:48

This is a great mission, help me find back OFP feeling! Many thanks!

laggy

Oct 21 2009, 19:09

i like your Mission. I think its inspired by this film http://video.barnesandnoble.com/DVD/Behind-Enemy-Lines/Gene-Hackman/e/024543038030

You think right, although there are several other sources of inspiration as well.

Thanks all for the nice words.

Laggy

CarlGustaffa

Oct 22 2009, 22:55

Just played through it solo on a dedi server. Took me about 2.5 hours walking (not jogging) for the most of the time. A trip on the can midgame killed half the men :) Horrible night conditions with no moon makes a non NVG run completely impossible. Kinda reminds me of Rescue Dawn (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462504/) which we re-saw yesterday.

I couldn't get the pilot to react, so he became stuck. I had to drop the radio to get rid of his constant nagging :D Maybe that's the reason the mission wouldn't end when we got to base. Not sure. I didn't have much encounters except for the beginning and what appeared to be a scripted chopper event, but the suspense was there all the time. I loved it. Although it ended up quite easy for me, I never knew it was easy. Since solo on dedi, there was no reloads or turning off grass cheats available.

A nice break from the constant fighting missions.

Edit: Maybe parameter options for:
Weather, adds replayability value
Time and day, ditto.
View distance (far too much for woodland fighting, affected my performance badly)
NVG availability (if no NVG, then choose a day with moon)
Maybe removing the GPS could have been a nice touch
Removing the map and radio for other members, having to resort to directChat could have been nice.
General ACM activity/density: Normal, Low, High, Random.

Remember, this is a downed chopper. A lot can go wrong. Such as fuel leaks destroying some of the equipment. Just giving you some ideas :)

The only real annoyance was having to drag along the AIs. Although I was able to keep them on hold fire (for the most of the time), the problem is that sometimes Arma2 forgets to update formationDirection. I was for the most time in staggered column, and in some cases "enemy man, behind" was actually in front of us, and I had all the guys in front of me while walking. This is a horrible bug in Arma2 which I hope gets fixed eventually, and since I played without any GUI aids enabled I rarely had any idea what my guys actually reported.

It is stated that AI should not be disabled for this mission. Why is this? What's the technical problems of doing so? I thought of modding it a little for our next clan session to get rid of the AI, and make it a bit tougher (not enemy and fighting wise).

plundera

Oct 26 2009, 07:58

Hey Laggy,
An news on an update? Can't wait for the final release

laggy

Oct 26 2009, 16:23

Hi CarlGustaffa and thanks for the solid feedback.

The multiple parameters are a great idea and I'll consider it, really want to move on to my next mission creations though.
Losing the GPS is really a cool thing I haven't thought about yet, getting lost adds tension, Thank you!

It is stated that AI should not be disabled for this mission. Why is this? What's the technical problems of doing so?

Many conversations between the team members are possible (adds atmosphere, I think).
If the units don't exist = No conversations = Less atmosphere.
The dogs also track random units in the players group, so "deleting" them creates problems.
The end trigger also senses when ALL group members are present (leave no man behind), and if they have been "deleted" the trigger doesn't activate.

Laggy

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

Hey Laggy,
An news on an update? Can't wait for the final release

Hopefully in a couple of days, my "real" life is a bit hectic right now.
Thanks for asking.

Laggy

CarlGustaffa

Oct 26 2009, 19:37

Ok, that explains the no ending for me. I was forced to leave the pilot behind as he didn't react to any commands.

On replay, we tried turning off the intro form the parameters. But now nothing would work properly. No dogs and no acm stuff. Also, the amount of helicopter activity was alarmingly high compared to the foot units.

The start is insanely hard (for us), but mostly due to the location. Grass is killing us. While the AI is sniping us through it, we have abolutely no idea where they are, because of the terrain layout (slightly on a hill). It depends too much on replay attempts and dumb luck we feel. Would be great if the start was easier, but with random locations so that we couldn't preplan how we solve it.

laggy

Oct 26 2009, 20:00

Ok, that explains the no ending for me. I was forced to leave the pilot behind as he didn't react to any commands.

Shoot him when he doesn't obey orders, that's what I usually do. That phenomenon is an ArmA2 bug to which I plead "NOT GUILTY!". Annoying when it happens (even if extremely rare) and I hope BIS will fix it.

On replay, we tried turning off the intro form the parameters. But now nothing would work properly. No dogs and no acm stuff

That is a bug happening on dedicated server, that I "managed" to create in version 0.98, it is fixed in upcoming 0.99.
Sorry about that, but making the mission work perfectly as SP, hosted MP and on dedicated server was quite a struggle.
As hosted MP it still works well to turn of the intro, and in version 0.99 the mission works exactly as it should in all types of game, including on dedicated.

I would wait to play it again until version 0.99. That will be the final build.

Thanks again for the feedback and heads-up.

Laggy

Pandy

Oct 26 2009, 22:24

I like the video, pretty sweet looking and I love the humor in the intro!

CarlGustaffa

Oct 28 2009, 01:10

"shoot him."

Hehe, I know the problem, but I refuse to shoot anyone on my own side, deliberately, for any reason. Not as much a problem in Arma2 as it was in Arma1, but I have experienced stuck units. Maybe a check only against hiuman players in ending trigger? We might have a go again on it tomorrow, see what happens then.

"dedicated server was quite a struggle."

Hehe, trust me, I know all about it :D

"That will be the final build."

Suggestion: Use v1.0 for a final build :)

Yes, I like the intro too, but it and all kinds of intros quickly become a problem if you're unlucky and are insta-slaughtered at the beginning. Maybe intro should default to off? I mean, it brings some humour to it, but nothing that is important to how you play it out. If no admin is around, restarting with intro becomes annoying. Highly personal of course, but I tend to dislike any games forcing intros on me, especially if I've seen them before. :)

NoBrainer

Oct 28 2009, 08:22

I like a short intro so the units on the map gets going while you watch some intro.
I don't talk about 10 min but maybe 10-20 sec of intro.
This way you kind of let the server finish up its things before everybody starts.

Personal preference. But if the mission don't need it, don't do it.
I agree with CarlGustaffa on that one.

But a small intro will do great things if you got some randomness in your mission.

katdogfizzow

Oct 29 2009, 03:07

Piece of cake...loved the dogs barking.

My teammate died right away. I shot a civilian in a yellow car and drove his car to a empty truck. Drove the truck into a tree, just in time to hear the tanks waiting for me. I walked around them and passed the mission. Took about 10 minutes muhahaha.

plundera

Dec 10 2009, 04:07

Hey Laggy,
I appreciate your working on other things, but we were hoping you could put out a version 1, even if you spend 5-10 minutes randomising a few of the currently fixed enemy groups, add a surprise or two more (SU25 patrolling 2nd half :)?) and release it? Would be terrific! Cheers again

laggy

Dec 10 2009, 20:48

Thanks for the sustained interest Plundera, I'll try to release the final version soon.

My main problem in finishing the mission has been this:

Some players have "complained" that the mission is too easy, while others experience what I do... that it ranges from very difficult to impossible.

I've been trying to make the mission a little more consistent, but also keeping it random and unpredictable, which is a tough balance.

My view is this:

If you only like action and fighting, you might not enjoy this mission every time, because it is quite random. BUT, if you like atmosphere, tension and unpredictability you should enjoy it EVERY time.

Anyway, I'm working on two new missions, but a final release of this one is more or less done. I hope...

Cheers,

Laggy

plundera

Dec 11 2009, 01:25

"BUT, if you like atmosphere, tension and unpredictability you should enjoy it EVERY time." This aptly describes the appeal to us. You can certainly cut the tension with a knife in this map.

Thanks again and really looking forward to it
Cheers,

laggy

Dec 19 2009, 18:06

@<hidden> Plundera,

I didn't have time for a final mission polish before Christmas.
The final version will be out in the beginning of January along with another COOP mission called "The Beachhead".
After that I will finish "The Dirty Dozen".
Sorry if you are waiting for enemy lines, but it has to be perfect before the final release.

Cheers and merry x-mas,

Laggy

plundera

Dec 21 2009, 06:51

No worries Laggy, looking forward to it

Thanks again for your hard work.

Merry XMas and happy NY
Cheers

Splicer

Dec 24 2009, 17:00

Hi Laggy,

Hey, I just tried the mission (SP) (patch 1.05) (no mods or addons) and two things happened:

1) The first time I tried the mission ArmA2 crashed when showing the move of the team on the chopper. :confused:

2) After running ArmA2 again, I got killed when I was playing corpsman (trying to heal myself the pilot), then I got shot and died... and the mission got stuck with me dead! :butbut:

I couldn't switch back to other team members, and eventually I heard and saw the enemy around me! Pretty creepy! :scared:

FYI. :)

Best, Splicer.

laggy

Dec 26 2009, 13:59

Splicer

Dec 26 2009, 15:57

Hi Splicer,

Thanks for the feedback :)

The intro crash problem is unknown before patch 1.05, but maybe it was a random PC thing. I don't have 1.05 yet myself (Christmas without ArmA2 :eek:), but will of course double check this thing before version 1.0.

Version 0.98 should already work with teamswitch in SP, will look into this as well. It will definitely work in version 1.0. In fact teamswitch now works even in MP by using respawn "side", think this was fixed in 1.04.

Had you died and teamswitched through the whole team when you got "stuck"? Could you give me a more detailed summary of the gameplay?

I hope BIS didn't change anything with teamswitch.

Regards,

Laggy

Hi Laggy,

Thanks for your prompt reply. You had Christmas without ArmA2? Well, that is wrong! ;)

The crashing could have been a random thing. I will play it more to see if happens again or not.

Forgive my ignorance as I'm not proficient with the game and lingo yet, but when you say "teamswitch" do you mean selecting another team member (e.g., F2) and switching to that member?

If so, then I can tell you that I could not get ANY command from the keyboard. I press the space bar, all the function keys (e.g., F2, F3), and nothing.

It was like I died, yet I was aware of the surroundings and had my eyes opened.

This happened near some tree/bushes south of the initial crashing site/chopper, and I was the first KIA. I don't think I played more than a couple of minutes in the game.

Does that help?

Thanks! Splicer.

laggy

Dec 26 2009, 17:34

Splicer

Dec 26 2009, 23:27

Hi again Splicer, yes teamswitch is when you take control over another team member.

Sounds like you were not dead after all.

This mission uses the ArmA2 first aid module (found in the editor), where you get incapacitated and bleed sometimes instead of dying. What you describe, with the enemies coming up on your character sounds exactly like what happens when the first aid module kicks in. The enemies don't shoot at you because you are not considered to be a threat.

If it happens again (red filter screen and all) try to roll over on your belly by pushing the move buttons, w,a,d etc. Also see if you can call out that you are wounded to your teammates.

I might be wrong and missed something, but since you say you are quite new to ArmA2 this might be the case.

Thanks again,
Laggy

Hi Laggy,

Thanks for the tips. Actually, I know that when you get hit badly and and are in bad shape the whole screen turns red, blurry, etc. In this case none of that happened. That's why I was even more confused.

Nonetheless, I will keep trying your mission and if anything else turns up I'll let you know. ;)

Take care and talk to you soon!

Best, Splicer.