Was the campain even bug tested? [Archive] - Bohemia Interactive Forums

OddballWDI

Jun 30 2009, 04:26

Redfield-77

Jun 30 2009, 10:50

JOGR

Jun 30 2009, 11:16

The community is why I buy these games. Some of the guys that made mods for Arma 1 are so good at what they do it makes me wonder if BIS just got lazy and said F*** it let the community test and fix it.

How nice of BIS to think of us :D

Seriously. ARMA had a lot of problems too, but look how it turned out. I can't wait to see what the community will do with this one. Issues with official missions will most likely be ironed out by BIS though.

ARMA2 was just released, and it's no simple arcade shooter on rails. Give it some time.

Moktar

Jun 30 2009, 11:38

I love ARMA2. It's awesome. The game itself seems very well made. But the campaign is seriously crap! ARMA1 had the same problem. I'm a programmer that makes medical software. I test my own stuff after I create it but it still HAS to go through a QC (testing) department because I know exactly how the software was written. When another person tests it they sometimes find problems and sometimes they don't. In such an open ended type of mission as these missions seem to be, it looks like the guy who made the mission is who tested it and nobody else. If anyone else had tested these they would have found many problems with them.

I had to use the endmission cheat just to get past Manhattan. Now on bitter chill I spent about an hour trying to get down to the city in the south, only to come to the conclusion there was some bullshit trigger that kills you if you get too far away. What kind of cheap crap is that? Making the mission have 2 endings is fine but one of them damn well should be that the player makes it to that southern city!!!

I know some players had redone the ARMA1 campaign. Is anyone going to try to clean up the ARMA2 campaign and make it playable?

BIS you guys have gotta do a better job on the missions. I fully understand software deadlines but for the love of god this is 2 games in a row with full on crap campaigns. If you can't do it correctly hire some of the good guys in the mission making community.

Totally agree with you. I'm a fan of Arma series (playing all OFP series too) and I'm also a software engineer (C/C++). The buggy campaign is unacceptable. Nothing have been tested. I don't know how the team can tell us the opposite ? I've NEVER heard about someone that succeed in the campaign (upto to Manhattan).

I bought ArmA II (50€ in France) and the campaign is totally unplayable, even after the 1.02 patch. I'm really disappointed with BIS team, only the Engine of ArmA has been tested, not the Campaign.

I well know the constraints of deadlines, delivery and so on but I also know that my company would not have accept to deliver this junk campaign.
Unacceptable.

eirulan

Jun 30 2009, 15:48

Totally agree with you. I'm a fan of Arma series (playing all OFP series too) and I'm also a software engineer (C/C++). The buggy campaign is unacceptable. Nothing have been tested. I don't know how the team can tell us the opposite ? I've NEVER heard about someone that succeed in the campaign (upto to Manhattan).

I bought ArmA II (50€ in France) and the campaign is totally unplayable, even after the 1.02 patch. I'm really disappointed with BIS team, only the Engine of ArmA has been tested, not the Campaign.

I well know the constraints of deadlines, delivery and so on but I also know that my company would not have accept to deliver this junk campaign.
Unacceptable.

I totally agree with you.
Arma 2 SP campaign was wonderful until "Manhattan" (included) . I finished "Manhattan" with NO artillery support at the end. So capturing the enemy headquarter was a bit difficult but i got it.... ;)

After "Manhattan" (that is bugged) there were terrible bugs in the next two missions "Delaying the Bear" and "Badlands":
- Team Razor AI non responsive
- other crappy bugs which prevent to continue the campaign.

Finally. Bohemia are great in engine and AI programming. Terrible in mission testing. No quality control in mission testing. So my opinion of Bohemia as a serious videogame producer is now very low. But I like a lot their "creativity".

Obviously I have not finished the campaign until now.

[FF]FriZY

Jul 2 2009, 15:31

Hi,
I get stuck in mission Manhattan. I was really enjoying play campaign but only till Manhattan. I hate this mission!!! How is possible make so crappy shit!!! I am so disappointed.

linnx88

Jul 2 2009, 19:48

It's crazy. I'm on the "Delaying the Bear" mission now and it's simply UNPLAYABLE!! My team does not respond to me. They don't follow me and I get blasted out of nowhere... Why did i pay $50 again?

Flouncy

Jul 3 2009, 07:49

I love this game and I hate it. Never, have I been blocked, twisted, forced to reload endlessly to try all combination of weird, counter-intuitive things, just to get to the next stage.

Arma 2 has:

An abysmally coded 3D engine, that won't deliver playable fps on mega systems.

AI of the very worst order.

Clearly, no QC testing of the campaign - or, if they actually did test it AND deemed it acceptable for release, dear god... I'm just lost for words.

What it does have is potential in spades. It needs at least another 6 months dev before it could be considered a finished product. So BI now has a reputation as one of those devs that relies on the 'community' to polish the turd? What a mocking shame their attitude is.

I've been trawling these forums and watching the mountain of grief, looking daily for solutions to my new daily issues with the game, the ones that get you just when you think it's all working well, and only once have I seen a staffy at BI actually post. Absolutely, utterly disgraceful.

So. A year of patches, and it'll be right. We must believe. All we have with Arma 2 is faith. What crap of a way to garner customer loyalty is that?

Through all this they're hiding, silent.

Shameful, disgraceful and a punch in the guts to the loyal, the casual, and absolutely everyone who paid cash for this.

Just one statement, assuring us they know, understand, and are working on it would help wash away the pain felt by 100's of thousands of suffering customers. They care, right?

chespace

Jul 5 2009, 07:59

stal20048

Jul 9 2009, 10:46

Chespace, the documents are inside the building marked on the map by an objective marker ontop of desk. I actually managed to complete manhattan, however it should really entail shooting a marine with a javelin on his back in order to have something to kill the tank at the insurgent base...:P.

One thing i cant get my head around is why Captain Dressler (the intel officer) is English...other than that, the campaign has thousands of little niggles and bugs that generally discourage me from playing it, thats the main problem. BIS best get it sorted if they actually want to draw in new players (and customers, for that matter), not rely on an already established community.

sdoc

Jul 9 2009, 10:58

what makes it the worst for me is, unlike Arma I where i deeply disliked the campaign, i love this campaign. Missions like Manhattan are exactly what i liked to get from this game! (Manhattan worked half well for me)

the concept of the missions and the complexity is absolutely brilliant. Sadly at the moment i have to fight 70% of the time with the software and 30% with the enemies.

RazorHead1

Jul 10 2009, 01:35

I agree. wait for BIS to iron out these issues. Most problems aren't even on the radar until a game is released.

slynchy

Jul 10 2009, 09:02

I think it's shocking that this is the 3rd game they've made and there are still errors from the first game that haven't been properly fixed.

Example, AI in vehicles: Chopper pilots crashing on landing or even just driving a car on a road.

Every single mission I've played has had multiple bugs.

Also, I don't accept the excuse that this game is just so big (and the only one in the genre) that it's not possible to weed out all the bugs.

Unfortunately when you're charging full price for a buggy game you don't get marks for trying nor sympathy when things don't work as they should.

I also think the AI can see too well.

I'm playing the game on a projector, so the screen is huge, yet the AI is able to spot enemies in the distance that even I can't see. They are sub-pixel size!

I feel like I should be paying the mod community for the final product..

RTTM

Jul 10 2009, 09:12

It's blatantly obvious, just like any other game these days they are milking it for all it's worth. Why create a new engine when people will put up with the current one, and you can just make it a little prettier each time? As someone just said, the driving bugs, helicopters crashing for no reason. Why haven't they fixed it? Because everyone keeps buying it, and they OBVIOUSLY (yes, OBVIOUSLY) cannot be bothered to fix it properly. They have addons to make after all.

I'm eager to see how Operation Flashpoint 2 does, I love ARMA and ARMA 2 but they aren't really stepping outside of the box. Instead they use the same box with a new coat of paint.

I guarantee you when (if) ARMA 3 comes out, it'll be the same shitty rehashed engine with a few more effects that performs the same, with the same crappy bugs.

naykon

Jul 10 2009, 11:55

The campaigns borked completely!

ITS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!

Developers don't do it on consoles so why do it on the PC?!!

"Razor" team apart from being complete donuts are now ignoring all my orders!!!... I DONT REMEMBER MY SQUADS DOING THAT IN 1985!!!!!

and if anyone didn't follow my orders in 1985 i could just execute them for cowardice and carry on!!!

BUT OH NO!!! Razor team are too special to get executed.. its the end of the world if one of them gets accidently shot in the face for being DEAF!!!

i think i want my money back.......

mickeyc

Jul 10 2009, 13:14

Yea its a joke guess BIS understaffed or lazy, prob wont buy the next release. Only game more buggy than this was empire total war.

Jimmah

Jul 10 2009, 13:31

Ingrates! You should feel privileged that you are able to take place in this great sh@<hidden> experiment, and at such a low price too!

Archamedes

Jul 10 2009, 13:45

As stated, arma 1 had bugs, but you could still complete the campaign with it. Arma 2, dreadful bugs that should have been picked up haven't and you cannot complete the campaign. It seems like they where working on a deadline, hit it and said

"its not finished but we are at our deadline so what do we do?"

"Simple, sell it and worry about it later."

"But what if there are bugs and issues with the game?"

"Who cares, when the money roles in I may extend your contracts to fix them or start on Arma 3, if thats the case you have 3 weeks."

But yeah. If anyone said they tested "delaying the bear" they need to be fired, its clearly obvious that there are problems right from the start, could you imagine getting this on the 360? absolutly no way of fixing it if thats the case. They have to realize that not everyone who buys arma ofp games uses communities like these or even have the internet and these people will play it, think "what a load of crap." and take it back probably not even bothering to buy any further releases. Its all about the money and how quickly they can rake it in, probably why the deadlines where too soon.

Vassago

Jul 11 2009, 01:52

It's pretty damn sad, really.
I'm a day-1 OFP player and have always been a fan of BIS's games. But ArmA2 is the buggiest POS I've played in YEARS. What the hell is up, BIS? I've been in this industry 10yrs, I know how this crap works. Arma2 should not have shipped in this condition, regardless of monetary impact. If there's a bug that prevents the game from being completed, it's NOT a game! And ArmA 2 has TONS of game-stopping bugs!
Very disappointed.

D_O_A

Jul 11 2009, 01:59

Cpt.Goose

Jul 11 2009, 02:10

BIS released a Beta with a price tag on it... It's B/S and I'm so frustrated, I have never purchased a game with a totally broken single player campaign. I have had to stop playing the campaign all together because of the Manhatten bugs and the missions to follow. I refuse to use the End Mission cheat because NO ONE should have to use a cheat because the company are in to much of a damn rush to release the game and make a quick buck.

The way they do business has been a real shame. I can understand making a primary multiplayer game (Battlefield franchise) therefore neglect the single player aspect but at least they came out with a solid Multiplayer at launch aside from expected and tolerable bugs. ARMA 2 has just been a very big disappointment with no professional courtesy from the company. This game is on the shelf for the most part until a patch is released that will fix SOME of the many problems

loderunner

Jul 11 2009, 02:50

I've been a BI fan since the early days of OFP also, and I have been checking the shops, following every U.S. "release" date that has came and went, and now I'm waiting for July 20th to come along and see if the game actually appears.

However, in light of your comments, I'm not going to be as excited or eagerly awaiting its arrival. I may just hold off for a while. Maybe let the price drop down a bit, pick it up in the bargain bin, and then pay to be a beta tester.. :mad:

I think community support has dropped off since OFP. This kind of customer mistreatment could just kill the franchise.

voodoochile1234

Jul 11 2009, 02:57

There are other things you can do I suppose, like the multiplayer and the armory and mission editor and stuff. But the campaign is usually my favourite part of these kinds of games, and it really is poor in this game. It's the kind of game where it would pay to just ignore it for about 2 months and then come back to it when it has some patches.

GRS

Jul 11 2009, 04:14

Agreed with most, this is just plain awful. Support disappeared after one arty call in 'Manhattan' and then in bitter chill I kept getting killed BY NOTHING. Just gunshot or rocket sounds and I die, STUPID. Also in Manhattan when I went to secure the chopper crash, it was 130 meters off the coast and underwater.... WTF. Also the voices sometimes don't play. I've been playing these games for years now and while ArmA2 is the best ever its also the worst and most unplayable game I've ever seen. Infact, reading the manual cover to cover would probably be more enjoyable than playing the game. I can understand some issues but when you have a game that is more buggy than Stalker: Clear Sky (awesome patched) you know you messed up.

And about it being about the modding community: no, not for everyone. I never use mods and I love the series. I just don't want to redo it all again in the event they ever make it do-able at all.

-Wreckingball grenades
-Rockets don't go out a brocken glass window
-Support disappears
-Killed by nothing at all
-Voices that are worse than OFP (though not a determining factor for me)
-Retarded corpsmen (when you get hit as leader)
-Impossible objectives (crash underwater?)

The list could go on. I won't abandon this game but come on, fix it up and actually test your stuff before you sell it next time. As it is now I will NOT recommend this to ANYONE.

I will also return once its actually playable.

subtee

Jul 11 2009, 06:13

I have to agree with what has been said in this thread.

I can't remember another game that has so many bugs (big & small) in the singleplayer campaign.

Also another thing what feels cheap about the campaign, is that what ever decisions you make, you get the same tasks in the next missions, only with a slight difference in the dialogue.

That being said, i still like this game ALOT for the simulator and tactic feel of it compared to other military-type of games, hope the bugs etc get fixed.

One thing that would be good, is that there should be more games in this genre, the competition could do good to this franchise...

Lets see how the new Operation Flashpoint turns out... even tho i don't have high hopes for it.

PEACEwoody

Jul 11 2009, 10:59

the single player is terrible the bugs make it unplayable

i posted a message somewhere else on here about it and got slated

interestingly one of the fanboys slating me hadnt even tried the single player

i see this as a terrible way to introduce the game to someone new to the series

multiplayer is tough to get into but very very good

the impression i have is that if you havent been with the series from the start

dont bother because the community wont help you catch up and

the campaign should be the way to get acclimatised and it fails miserably

so new players are left with a choice...battle the bugs or play online and try and learn on the fly

oh the fanboys will cry but you have the editor and user missions... ok we do but isnt that a sign? when i can download missions that work, that have been made by the community not the developers.

and besides i see those as extras to go to when bored with the main events campaign and multiplayer.

i have read a lot of abuse thrown in the direction of the cod community but i have to tell you now play through the single player of these games especially cod4 and they are like a movie, after every mission you sit back and go whoooaaa and take a big breath and reflect on the madness that has just assaulted your senses.

and not one bug in five call of dutys playing through the single player storys many times.In cod4 i played on 3 difficulty levels right through and not 1 bug....not even a small one never mind one that ruins the enjoyment or stops you completely.

i can see where the hostility comes from.

Cadmium77

Jul 11 2009, 22:05

I was expecting Arma 2 to be a buggy mess before i bought it. I buy these games for the multiplayer and awesome community made mods. I won't be bothering with the campaign at all until the community has had a chance to iron out and improve it.

That being said, i am not all upset with BIS, they are still providing a great moddable platform, that looks great, and will "eventually" run great as well. There just isn't any kind of competition in the genre

Pretty much my feelings. There's years of entertainment here just on the single player and coop player mission editor...I'm playing with it right now and being totally blown away by this thing...

The campaign is...well I played it up till the Razor team goes to the third mountain top hideout and the bug kept freezing me. I even tried running away before killing all the dirty buggers in their tent and it still froze. But the helicopter transport was awesome. You just have to make sure you give it a good landing zone. Even real helicopters here in BC have bad accidents trying to land in small clearings in the forest. You can't expect to create an LZ on some logging road on a mountainside forest you know...

Vassago

Jul 12 2009, 01:03

So what, you just accept the crap we've been given? I don't understand.
Some of the best content in OFP and ArmA came form the community, no doubt about that. But the INITIAL RELEASE of a game should in no way, under any circumstances be as buggy and shot to hell as ArmA 2 is. I'd be embarrassed if a game I worked on shipped in this state.

Erskin71

Jul 12 2009, 01:06

No...no its wasnt. In fact, I don't even think they played the missions once they built them.

drsYell

Jul 12 2009, 01:13

UNACCEPTABLE....your customers are NO betatesters, BI! BIG SHAME ON YOU!!!!! I hope OFP 2 is better and will take its paying customers more seriously!

B|oodThorn

Jul 12 2009, 01:19

Without doubt the buggiest game ive ever played [campaign]...the beta tester should be shot.......but the concept and the scenerios and user created missions are Awesome!!

Its the most oddest gaming experience ive had...so much hate and love for one game...must be marmite!!

TechnoTerrorist303

Jul 12 2009, 18:35

Without doubt the buggiest game ive ever played [campaign]...the beta tester should be shot

This is assuming of course that there actually was one...
I'm beginning to think there wasn't.

Look at it this way, this is a "simulator" that provides a very very good military sandbox for us all to play in, the campaign is not what the game is meant to be mainly about... All that said, I would expect it to actually work properly as a bare minimum.

mutters

Jul 12 2009, 20:11

Well there is no doubt that the campaign and artificial intelligence are a joke,and there can be no way on earth it was tested if it was it ,who the hell tested it Mr magoo?.

:eek:

Vassago

Jul 13 2009, 01:31

Look at it this way, this is a "simulator" that provides a very very good military sandbox for us all to play in, the campaign is not what the game is meant to be mainly about

It's a video GAME. A game is a freakin game. If it doesn't work, it's trash. That's what the campaign is - trash. Don't try to push the editor and multiplayer as being what the game is "all about". I buy games first and foremost for their singleplayer content. Everything else is just a bonus. The fact that ArmA2's single player campaign is this f'd up, really pisses me off. There's absolutely no excuse for it.

JeffreyC

Jul 13 2009, 03:17

It's a video GAME. A game is a freakin game. If it doesn't work, it's trash. That's what the campaign is - trash. Don't try to push the editor and multiplayer as being what the game is "all about". I buy games first and foremost for their singleplayer content. Everything else is just a bonus. The fact that ArmA2's single player campaign is this f'd up, really pisses me off. There's absolutely no excuse for it.

I totally agree on this as well, I buy this as a single player game period. I don't even have any interest in multiplayer. The campaign was a real draw for me and sounded very interesting, the addons and missions are a bonus. Problems this huge should have been found in alfa testing, this big of errors shouldn't even have made it into beta let alone release.

millertym

Jul 13 2009, 04:46

I totally agree on this as well, I buy this as a single player game period. I don't even have any interest in multiplayer. The campaign was a real draw for me and sounded very interesting, the addons and missions are a bonus. Problems this huge should have been found in alfa testing, this big of errors shouldn't even have made it into beta let alone release.

The most frustrating part for me is that their are moments of brilliance and very overall solid foundation for amazing game play - even within the campaign. But when those game breaking bugs hit, oh it burns me up.

Badlands is the biggest example of this for me personally. Commanding multiple squads of troops and taking towns was fun and very challenging... hours of effort and reloads... and finally when I pulled it off it felt so good - until it bugged out after the cut scene and now I'm stuck because the mission won't end. Just me, my squad, and 4 conquered cities chilling for eternity. So I guess that's the end of the campaign for me for now.

Vassago

Jul 13 2009, 04:49

Exactly, millertym. The design is fantastic, but it was pulled off poorly.

h.IV+[I.esus]

Jul 13 2009, 08:02

Mmm... I'm stuck on Manhattan.
I've done everything aside from the main Chedaki base, and when I get there, all of the enemy AI seems to be able to spot me through hills, grass, bushes, trees, you name it - they can see through it.

My own team is mostly unresponsive, I can't heal them or give them any orders aside from fall back into formation and HEY GO HERE, etc... and they just flat out refuse to attack the enemy.

If I give them an attack order they just run blindly at the enemy until they get shot.
They also refuse to attack anything if they're in the APC... when before I went for the main base, they were going entirely fine. No issues whatsoever.

Is there any fix list or ETA on the next patch?
Or is it just 'blah blah blah when it's done'?

eirulan

Jul 13 2009, 08:56

;1361494']Mmm... I'm stuck on Manhattan.
I've done everything aside from the main Chedaki base, and when I get there, all of the enemy AI seems to be able to spot me through hills, grass, bushes, trees, you name it - they can see through it.

.......
Is there any fix list or ETA on the next patch?
Or is it just 'blah blah blah when it's done'?

I played with version 1.02 and encountered the same problem as you.
The only way to conclude the mission is using save/load feature very often: i used about 10 times during the final assault to the main chedaki base. Finally I got it.
Obviously with no artillery support or whatever friendly unit.
Only me and my Razor Team...

Rochmel

Jul 13 2009, 09:48

When I read the previews of Arma 2 and Dragon Rising it was the latter that excited me. I wonder if BI brought the release date forward so there would be no competition? Like everyone I am frustrated by the game and the comments - I'm only on the second mission and it looks like there's little point in continuing and I don't think I've actually shot anyone yet (my squad seem to identify and dispatch them before I even see where they are).

However all that said I do have a game to noodle around with whilst waiting for Dragon Rising and I guess that's better than nothing!

slynchy

Jul 13 2009, 13:19

The more I play this game, the more bugs I find.

BIS, you are truly an amateur outfit. This is your 3rd game in the series and you still haven't ironed out the kinks from your first outing. You are applying new layers to an engine that never fully worked.
For the love of all that is good; for the next game, create a new engine. From scratch.

This engine is a mess. Hardly anything works as it should

I'd like to point out now that I'm in my late 20s and am a programmer by profession. I very, very rarely post on message boards and have no 'fanboy' affiliations. I'm only posting here because I am so hugely shocked at how botched this game is. I paid for this game and I reserve the right to voice my opinion.

Far be it from me to bash a game without an example, so here you have it.

I was using the editor yesterday, I put a MOVE waypoint east of an AI character not 100 meters from his starting position.
- On the first few attempts he ran straight north off a peer and into the water

Then I moved him slightly further away from the edge of the peer as a starting position.
- Now he ran in a big wide arc around where he was supposed to run.
Then he runs into the water and starts swimming for a while, only to reemerge and run another wide arc around where he was supposed to run.

What troubles me is that this is something I would have witnessed in Operation Flashpoint and it's still happening!!!. It's 2009 BIS, this is no longer excusable.

Lauxman

Jul 13 2009, 16:05

It's a video GAME. A game is a freakin game. If it doesn't work, it's trash. That's what the campaign is - trash. Don't try to push the editor and multiplayer as being what the game is "all about". I buy games first and foremost for their singleplayer content. Everything else is just a bonus. The fact that ArmA2's single player campaign is this f'd up, really pisses me off. There's absolutely no excuse for it.

If you can't see that the editor and MP and addons are and always have been the true spirit of the game, then I'm sorry. Enjoy some other game where the campaign is good for one or two playthroughs and then you shelve it. I would rather not even have a single player campaign if it meant they could develop the core aspects of the game better.

JeffreyC

Jul 13 2009, 16:55

Snafu

Jul 13 2009, 17:17

The key word in the above replies is "I".

Everybody has their own beliefs on what the core of ArmAII is, some consider that to be MP COOP other consider it to be the editor, arguing is kind of pointless. :)

Back to the topic.

I can see the potential the campaign has but the bugs ruin a lot of the experience. I am on Manhattan and am having trouble with the Mi-24 pick up for that woman. Frustrating.

Moktar

Jul 13 2009, 18:00

Indeed, everybody has their own expect of this type of game/simulation BUT if I have a look to the back of the DVD box I can read 4 different paragraphs to define what is ArmA II :

A campaign
A lot a real weapons
Massive multiplayers conflicts
An editor

Unfortunately, that's not we got.

eirulan

Jul 13 2009, 19:29

In Mission Manhattan, when I arrived at LZ for Lagushina, I received a message that I am near Chedaki Base....

By the way in that moment, If I make team switch and then come back to the Razor group leader.....
I found that Razor Leader (Cooper) has been teletransported to Manhattan Base, about 2.000 mt away from LZ !
He is inside an helicopter who does not take off :confused::confused:

So, I have encountered the "teletransport" bug....
It is not a real problem for finishining the mission, because i can easily revert to an earlier point.
But it is very bizzarre !

Alex72

Jul 13 2009, 19:54

Agreed D O A.

Ive just poked at the campaign a little. I have so much fun things to do in this game that the campaign got bugs at this state doesnt bother me the slightest. Will play it later when its touched up a bit more. :)

For those buying ARMA2 only for its campaign, well they ofcourse should have a working one, but ARMA2 can be played in so many ways that even if something doesnt work you can do so much other missions for the time being. You might even find a favourite mission you cant stop play. Look at one single mission in the editor and is scripts and see how complex they can be - now go and look at the campaign... Its a given a smaller company like BIS cant forsee every little bug in it. Even harder when its a huge world and you can move from any angle you want - go where ever you like. That means they have to test every possible scenario. And that at the same time as they code the new game and everything that means.

Im sure it will get better soon.

Alex

[HUD]Dorph

Jul 13 2009, 21:12

We saw a lot of bugs in Arma1 and a lot of those bugs got fixed in patches.
What i have a hard time to understand is, why are a lot of those bugs back in Arma2???

mickeyc

Jul 14 2009, 02:37

i play online, on the charlie foxtrot games, but i liked the idea of single player missions were u could travel all around the map without being shot by the invisable man. The single player is a joke and the gfx looks good but it doesnt use the full power of the latest GFX cards. People keep saying "next patch will improve it" the game shouldnt need that many patches, shows how fucked it is.

Ill download the demo of dragon rising pretty sure its been tested alot more than arma 2, send arma 2 back to game.co.uk they knock some money off ofp2. Maybe BIS bit off more than they can chew. Think it pisses me off because the game could be superb, but i aint waiting for more patches.

Cpt.Goose

Jul 14 2009, 02:48

If you can't see that the editor and MP and addons are and always have been the true spirit of the game, then I'm sorry. Enjoy some other game where the campaign is good for one or two playthroughs and then you shelve it. I would rather not even have a single player campaign if it meant they could develop the core aspects of the game better.

How can you say something like this? That makes no sense what so ever. If a game offers a Single Player Campaign, it should work, be in depth and provide a story. Hence what a campaign is. If the game offers multiplayer then it should provide a multiplayer environment along with code, and levels to play that portion of the game. If the game offers a Developer Tool set then it should offer full access to the game and modifying options. That's if the game wants to be successful it needs to provide a solid solution in every area it offers.

For you to say that the game was never meant to be good in single player...? That's so stupid, then you know what BIS shouldn't advertise it on there website, they shouldn't even include it in the game. If you can't commit to what you create then don't bother... BUT if you do commit then you better provide if you want good reviews and happy customers.

I think your words are very poorly chosen, what your saying is, here is a Ferrari with a Chev. V4 cavalier motor... Well its really the body image of the car, you don't buy it because we advertise it will do 0-60 in a insane amount of time. Just look at the paint and focus your five hundred thousand on that.

Dumb-ass

eirulan

Jul 14 2009, 06:23

I found that Razor Leader (Cooper) has been teletransported to Manhattan Base, about 2.000 mt away from LZ !
He is inside an helicopter who does not take off :confused::confused:

So, I have encountered the "teletransport" bug....
It is not a real problem for finishining the mission, because i can easily revert to an earlier point.
But it is very bizzarre !

No problem. In fact I finished the mission regularly. After having reached a "score" or about 70% of the objectives, Capt Shaftoe called me back to the base. I finished regularly the mission with 7.400 points (score).
The mission works. You have to know how to play it.Otherwise you get lost.

blankko

Jul 14 2009, 14:42

Vassago

Jul 14 2009, 17:26

Guess we have to hold out for Operation Flashpoint 2, if we want something that actually works. Maybe by then ArmA2 will have the bugs sorted out. Maybe.

skooma

Jul 14 2009, 21:13

Considering how ambitious and big the free-roam missions are I can forgive them for not catching everything. Those missions are probably easy to break if you try.

Vassago

Jul 15 2009, 00:28

Considering how ambitious and big the free-roam missions are I can forgive them for not catching everything.

Bzzzzt wrong answer :)
Any bug that breaks a game should therefore prevent that game from shipping, until it is fixed. PERIOD.
Operation Flashpoint came out 8yrs ago. A lot of the issues in ArmA/ArmA2 still exist from Operation Flashpoint. Those issues should have been squashed back then, let alone the new ones they've manager to create.

theukmoog

Jul 16 2009, 10:10

The co-op campaign was the only reason myself and a mate bought this game.

I admit, ARMA has some amazing features but the fact is that the co-op campaign does not work.

If a patch 1.03 were to fix these issues in the very near future then Bohemia might rescue the situation but, as it stands, I wouldn't touch any future product with a frigging huge bargepole!

retrofly

Jul 16 2009, 10:20

They probably did bug test it, but the list was too long so decided not to implement any changes :D

Vassago

Jul 16 2009, 23:13

They probably did bug test it, but the list was too long so decided not to implement any changes :D

Well that's poor management and the indicator of an amateur studio. Not sure what happened to BIS, as I don't recall OFP being 1/2 this buggy. It's a crying shame because most things about ArmA2 I love. I just can't play anything related to the campaign.

Scimitar67

Jul 17 2009, 02:19

V1.02 patch was not very big.

The V1.03 patch will need to be BIGGG!!! to fix all of these bugs

TechnoTerrorist303

Jul 17 2009, 14:45

It's sad that users of ArmA 2 come out to debate about the bug-ridden single player campaign while the game maker remain silent on this issue. The least I expect from BIS is a promise to fix these show-stoppers asap.

Instead of calming your concerned users with assurance of a fix, leaving them frustrated in the dark while they speculating on your competency will do you more harm than good.

I actually emailed Placebo with as much when he requested feedback to his BIS address in another thread...

Still nothing.

I am beginning to think the stonewalling is deliberate and they can't be bothered to deal with it. A "Let them eat cake" attitude is not really going to work here unfortunately.

Even a stickied post saying "whoops we failed, sorry, please bear with us while we patch this £(*^*&"£*&R game" would make things soooooo much better.

ekithump

Jul 18 2009, 13:16

I for one will not buy another Bohemia product, after shelling out cold hard cash for this piece of $h1t.

When Microprose brought out GP2 (or was it 3? my memory's a bit hazy) they delayed the release by a YEAR becasue the product wasn't ready, but when it came out it was bug free - never had to patched, worked like a dream - and I was happy as Larry. Unfortunately, companies like BIS seem only to care about making money, rather than satisfying the customers whose money it is.

Think I'll revert to playing OFP again, in preparation for OFP3 in October.

eirulan

Jul 19 2009, 16:58

Yeah,
I understand you.
Today I opened OFP 1, loaded the campaign "Too young to die" with GRAA Pack 3.0.
Wow, that is a very Tom clancy or fanta-thriller experience !

Vassago

Jul 19 2009, 19:15

Yeah,
I understand you.
Today I opened OFP 1, loaded the campaign "Too young to die" with GRAA Pack 3.0.

OFP was amazing. Graphics were decent for the time, very open ended and no show-stopping bugs. Ahh, the good 'ole days...

schurem

Jul 19 2009, 21:03

dude your way-back glasses must be rose-colored. operation flashpoint 1.0 was hella buggy. it took at least 8 patches to become coherent and stable. it was awesome from version 1.0 though, as is arma2. so keep it up BiS!

Hoppern

Jul 19 2009, 21:07

The OPF campagin were 10 times more immersive though.

Vassago

Jul 19 2009, 21:43

dude your way-back glasses must be rose-colored

Lol :)
It wasn't perfect, I agree. But I could at least complete the campaign without anything going wrong. I can't complete the campaign in ArmA2 at all. Every time I try there's a bug that makes me revert it. :'(

ikkeii

Jul 20 2009, 06:07

it was awesome from version 1.0 though, as is arma2. so keep it up BiS!

Your on the payroll....HR damage control dept.

schurem

Jul 20 2009, 11:07

Your on the payroll....HR damage control dept.

no im not. i just love the ambition these games have, and what they are striving for. hint: the editor is where the best part is found. campaign is just a tack-on.

ikkeii

Jul 21 2009, 06:42

no im not. i just love the ambition these games have, and what they are striving for. hint: the editor is where the best part is found. campaign is just a tack-on.

The campaign is and should always be the primary focus, storyline is what immerses you into the game, secondary comes multiplayer. Editors are the true "tack ons".

What I am loving about this game is the realism and the storyline, it feels like you are apart of something and that you are making decisions and evolving the story. What I dont like is the constant bugs and oversights which make playing the game frustrating and at times impossible.

I have not yet given up. I hope that soon someone will give me an answer to these problems:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80633
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80773

Bascule42

Jul 21 2009, 09:47

This is a good thread. If it bothers you that much, take your game, your receipt and ask for your money back. The fact is, you love this game, but are, quite rightly frustrated by the single player bugs. There are a hell of a lot more things things that are unfair in this world than ArmA 2 single player campaign being buggy. Have a bit of patience and wait. If you want perfection, stick with the big companies like EA, Rockstar, or *cough* Codemasters. We all know how much they love and care for their customers.

I played through the campaign, hated it, crap. In fact it took me back a bit because I thought exactly the same thing about Cold War Crisis too. Only played that once or twice. (Red Hammer and Resistance were brilliant though). BI are releasing what is basically a massive tool, (sometimes I think *for* massive tools), a sandbox, a set of toys to experiment with, something to get your imagination going. Don't go giving me that crap about, "Oh I cant script - and don't want to learn". Neither do/can I. It doesn't stop me knocking a good mission up in 10 minuites that will keep me good for an hour or so. F2 - select - double click - repeat 4 times. Make a player/squad, a waypoint, and you're set. Simple as Mickey. At the moment, I hate MP games too, because of all the former BF2 and COD players, so that doesn't interest me.

Fair enough, a good story is a big big part of the gaming experience, and I really do sympathise, but contrary to some posts on here, story line has never been a big part of BI games. "Russia invades - US and locals stop them". Puts me in mind of EVE online in the sense that its up to you to what you get out of games like this. Down to just your imagination and your own ideas. I say again!, (little OFP reference for you there:rolleyes:) - its more of a toolbox than a game.

Bottom line if you dont like it, don't play. It wouldn't be the first time you've paid for a game you dont like, and it wont be the last. Or as my dear old granny used to say: "Shit or get off the pot".

ikkeii

Jul 21 2009, 10:19

Spoiler (Storyline Bitterchill and Badlands)

The best mission (Storyline) I have played so far is Bitterchill, after waking up after the Helo crashes, its night time....your confused....you got some crazed Rocker in your face....and trying to get away while half of the russian army is looking for you....flood lights zooming all around the map....helicopter flying around looking for you....and then getting into a firefight with a squad that you ultimately come across. The frustrating thing about this mission was the lack of speed from your unit...im running off asking them to follow and they are dancing around the bushes wanting to shoot things when I have ordered a hold fire.
Badlands is good too, because your starting to get more command powers and units, but the bugs in this are too much to deal with, makes it unplayable

theukmoog

Jul 21 2009, 11:15

If it bothers you that much, take your game, your receipt and ask for your money back.

Believe me, I would if I could!

But have you tried getting a refund on an open piece of PC software... it's nigh on impossible!

I bought my copy from an online shop... try submitting a return request and explaining that the campaign is so broken that it's unplayable in co-op mode, which is the one and only reason we bought the game! They're just not going to consider such a request!

Pizzle

Jul 22 2009, 07:16

I have to admit my frustration at this. I'm starting to feel like BIS are laughing at me whilst bathing in Champagne...

I've spent hundreds of dollars on BIS titles. OPF, OPF Resistance, ARMA, Queens Gambit & now ARMA2. I fail to see why I STILL see the same bugs and issues I've encountered all along.

Driving is my pet hate. Last night I asked my Marksman to hop in a car & drive to me. A distance of less than 1000 metres. I watched as he turned the car in the opposite direction and proceded to execute a 500 point turn, reversing into the same goddamn tree each time. He then took off across a paddock crashing into a fence and sat there. I went and ate tea. Came back and he was STILL facing the wrong direction and moving backwards & forwards repeatedly. Nowhere near my position. I would guess and say this went on for 1/2 an hour - maybe 45 mins whilst I ate!

This is the exact same problem that hgas plagued the series since its inception. BIS state the army use a version of this for training... I can't see the Australian defence Force being too wrapped in this twoddle.

Please don't get me wrong though - a testament to ARMA is the fact that I persist with it. Any other game would have been turfed in the bin had I had these issues. My issue is that BIS seem to know that it's avid users will always buy it & put up with stupid bugs & therefore don't really seem to care. I'm no fan of Codemasters, but if OPF2 is a relatively bug free experience I don't think I'll be returning to ARMA. I've spent too much money on faulty products of BIS's as it is.

I too feel I should be paying modders for all the fixes they provide!

ikkeii

Jul 22 2009, 07:41

I fail to see why I STILL see the same bugs and issues I've encountered all along.

Im a first timer to Arma...and BIS. After reading multiple posts about there being the same bugs in every other game released has made me realise three things:

1/ that the issues I report wont get fixed.

2/ There is no quality control with this company.

3/ Unless something changes within BIS (Restructure and/or Quality Control introduced) the company will eventually fail because they are rapidily losing customers.

BobbyDylan

Jul 22 2009, 08:05

Im a first timer to Arma...and BIS. After reading multiple posts about there being the same bugs in every other game released has made me realise two things:

1/ that the issues I report wont get fixed.

2/ There is no quality control with this company.

3/ Unless something changes within BIS (Restructure and/or Quality Control introduced) the company will eventually fail because they are rapidily losing customers.

Really? Are they loosing customers? Do you have numbers that back that statement? What is the number of Sales for ArmA to Arma2? I'm curious how many they've lost.:confused:

ikkeii

Jul 22 2009, 08:34

Read the forums mate. Quite a few people saying that they will be returning the game. Sales figures do not represent returned product.

Bascule42

Jul 22 2009, 09:10

Well I for one am having a bloody good time playng this game. Its so good, they can be forgiven for Harvest Red....just :rolleyes:.

Open the editor, drop a hind in the south western area of the map, take it for a spin at 50m altitude following the railway 'till its terminus, then fly back. If you still feel the same way after the journey then you have no soul and wil never cry again.

reb0rn

Jul 22 2009, 12:11

if i had bought the game i would drop a bomb at their HQ... be happy there is cracked games so you can see the CRAP thay want to sell :)

ikkeii

Jul 23 2009, 01:10

Now I never said I didnt love the game. I do. its great. but its too buggy. So I hate to love it.

On another note: They obviously have a lot of die hard fans, what these loyals have in common is that they are all modders/editers. They enjoy this game because its a good game to mod etc

For new customers like myself, who isnt a modder, less than impressed with the bugs in this game. I want to be able to play it now but I have to wait until all the bugs are fixed and I learn how to edit/mod.

chacro

Jul 28 2009, 21:55

I've been reading these forums for the last few days. I, along with many similar posters here, was a huge fan of operation flashpoint. I don't have the time or the desire to play multiplayer games. I have modded games to add challenge or immersion as I see fit in the past.

I share many other poster's desire for a more immersive gaming experience. I missed out on Arma, but when I saw Arma 2 came out I was extremely hopeful for another great game.

I can understand if one or two people complain about bugs or issues with the campaign, it is bound to happen. Even crashes are likely to happen when you're dealing with a wide array of hardware setups.

However, I'm really surprised to see across these forums, and in almost every review of the game I read that there are show-stopping bugs in the campaign. I cant describe how dissapointing that is to me because I see so much potential here. More shocking is not a single person has come forward saying that they were able to complete the campaign without forcing the missions to end. That is amazing and ridiculous. Even worse, there is no response from the development team on this thread despite several requests for a simple "we're looking into it" response. Seems like a novice move to me.

I guess everything that can be said has already been said in this thread, but I appreciate the feedback. I never do this much due diligence on a game before buying it but this one seems to be completely broken. What a shame.

I will check back when its in a $20 bargain bin. More likely, however, it appears I can skip the game altogether if operation flashpoint is more stable and accomplishes what Arma 2 set out to be. At this point the bar is set to "Does the game work?"

I'm very sad to say I hope that ofp2 wipes the floor with Arma 2 when it comes out. Capitalism will run its course.

.kju [PvPscene]

Jul 28 2009, 22:17

@<hidden> chacro:

Just a note. A dev of the campaign did just what you said in other threads.
Does he has time to do it in every thread. No. ;)

chacro

Jul 28 2009, 22:21

kju- thanks for the info. I realize that they can't read every thread, of course, neither can I. I'm glad to hear it.

nettrucker

Jul 28 2009, 22:42

Yeah,
I understand you.
Today I opened OFP 1, loaded the campaign "Too young to die" with GRAA Pack 3.0.
Wow, that is a very Tom clancy or fanta-thriller experience !

Wow I never thought that someone would still play this OFP campaign.

Anyway given the magnitude of the BIS games I don't wonder about bugs: I guess it is almost impossible to get this game bug free from release date. Think of the concept of other games how are they build. There is nothing else comparable in my opinion and believe me I played some FPS but in the end I turned always back to BIS OFP/ArmA series. I know they will improve until bugs are ironed out. It may take some time but it always have been like that and I can accept and live with that.
Regards
nettrucker:D

eirulan

Jul 29 2009, 08:08

Wow I never thought that someone would still play this OFP campaign.

Anyway given the magnitude of the BIS games I don't wonder about bugs: I guess it is almost impossible to get this game bug free from release date. Think of the concept of other games how are they build. There is nothing else comparable in my opinion and believe me I played some FPS but in the end I turned always back to BIS OFP/ArmA series. I know they will improve until bugs are ironed out. It may take some time but it always have been like that and I can accept and live with that.
Regards
nettrucker:D

Grazie per la risposta.
Ho visto che sei anche un musicista. Saluti !

Ozihcs

Jul 29 2009, 11:51

Anyway given the magnitude of the BIS games I don't wonder about bugs: I guess it is almost impossible to get this game bug free from release date. Think of the concept of other games how are they build. There is nothing else comparable in my opinion and believe me I played some FPS but in the end I turned always back to BIS OFP/ArmA series. I know they will improve until bugs are ironed out. It may take some time but it always have been like that and I can accept and live with that.
Regards
nettrucker:D

I think you are spot on there. ArmA 2 is a simulator, and sims are by nature much more complex than other games. In fact, the problems we are having is typical of the simulation genre - the enormity of the task makes it almost impossible to pull it off 100%. One of the greatest sims ever made, by (possibly) the greatest simulator programming house - Falcon 4 from Microprose - was so bugridden and performed so badly on the hardware of the day that is was nearly unplayable. People are still modding and fixing it - 11 years after its release. You might even argue that Falcon 4 was the straw which broke Microproses back - they spent so much time and resources developing it that they went bankrupt afterwards. And they did release a couple of patches, but the game was still only marginally playable.

What happened in the case of F4 was that the source code of the game leaked out, and was picked up by the flight sim community and refined over a period of many many years, and in the end the game became a fantastic war- and flight simulator. It is still the benchmark for all dynamic campaign engines, and imho still reigns as the supreme example of what a simulator should be like.

Okay, now unlike Microprose, Bohemia are still very much alive. And I suspect that they are well aware of the state of their product - although perhaps a bit surprised by the number of problems are having with their campaign. I choose to think that this was an honest mistake and not a calculated move on their part.

There was never any chance whatsoever that a game such as this would be released bug free. It never will be - it's too complex. But I definitely feel that BIs first and foremost priority should be to fix the showstopper bugs in the campaign ASAP.

I have also noticed that while most reviews mention that there are big problems with the campaign, they still give good scores in the end. To me this suggests that many reviewers recognize the complexity involved in making a simulator, and are prepared to let BI work out these problems over time. Hardcore simulator games are few and far between these days, and any software house still willing to invest the massive time and effort required to build a new one deserve all the encouragement they can get - otherwise the genre will die completely.

So, I am not trying to say that it's okay that these problems are going on - it isn't. Some of the bugs I've encountered myself are so glaringly obvious that I am frankly surprised that they weren't fixed before the international release. But what I _am_ saying is that this is a game of massive scope and complexity, and Bohemia Interactive is a small independent studio with very real monetary limitations. I am confident that they will fix most of the major issues eventually, I completely understand that people are upset with the current state of affairs, but I also want to warn you that if we the community are too hostile towards those few players left in the simulation genre they may eventually decide to pack it up and head for greener pastures. There is more money in one half-baked (and massively bug-ridden) movie tie-in than in 10 ArmA games..

nettrucker

Jul 29 2009, 18:44

There was never any chance whatsoever that a game such as this would be released bug free. It never will be - it's too complex. But I definitely feel that BIS first and foremost priority should be to fix the showstopper bugs in the campaign ASAP.
I agree with you on that one. But believe me fixing bugs is a hell of a work. You must be very careful because fixing one thing can screw up other things and seen the magnitude of the programming effort to create such a game it is a complex and difficult task. I believe BIS is mostly under pressure being only a small developer. Budget is limited I guess and splitting up from Codemaster forced them to release ArmA1 in a very premature state otherwise there would be no ArmA2 right now. The community itself was constantly pushing for a new release. Most people don't consider such kind of aspects.
I fully understand people ranting about the bugs in missions which do not work properly. I really do. A lot of people are really disappointed especially people who are new to BIS Games. OFP was also buggy when it came out back in 2001 and they fixed it slowly but surely. That shows me that BIS is dedicated and committed to their games. How many other developers you know that are working constantly on patches to improve their games. for being honest I don't know any except BIS. Yeah maybe others release a couple of patches and that's it because they are already working on new projects.

This is addressed to the new people to Arma II.

Believe me you don't have wasted your money even some of you might be convinced of it. This game hasn't only one aspect to be considered. The campaign is bugged . . .:D try multi player then. Real life issues has always prevented myself to play online. For the first time in my life I have the chance to try that out and I did. You know what . . . it is a real blast. Especially playing PvP.

You're not into multi player then fire up the editor and create your own missions. I'm more an editor guy myself and I had fun for 8 years in a raw.

The community is the greatest community I've ever been in and you will see for yourself how active and creative the community really is. New content is created constantly from Islands to weapons, units, vehicles, aircraft, enhancing scripts and tons of more stuff. Not to mention all the awesome mods which have been created in the past. Take a look at Dev Heaven these guys are working to bring old OFP and ArmA content to ArmA2. They are committed and dedicated to do all this stuff and therefore my kudos to Kju and all the other guys involved in this great project. I could go on listing tons of stuff but I give it a rest. Give it some time and you will see that you didn't waste your money.
Well in case you don't like this game at all than I can't help you.
Regards
nettrucker

laggy

Jul 29 2009, 19:38

I haven't read all posts in this thread, got tired after three pages of bitter complaints.

I have been playing the campaign as hosted coop and we are currently on the "Manhattan" mission.

Is the campaign bugged ? - yes
Have I been frustrated with it ? - yes
Is it still playable and mostly enjoyable ? - yes

Maybe I'm just very forgiving when it comes to bugs, I design many missions myself and I have an understanding of all the problems involved with making a huge, complex, unpredictable mission with a good storyline and atmosphere. Expecting it to be completely bug-free is unreasonable.

I sincerely think that "Manhattan" (so far) is the most magical experience I have ever had in a game. It feels like the whole world is out there and you have to find a needle in a haystack - Lopotev. You have complete freedom and multiple moral choices dealing with the civilians. Everywhere you go, something happens and there seems to be and endless range of options.

This is what I always wanted and I find it very spurring to see if I can create something of similar quality and immersion myself.

Go ahead, call me a BIS spy or whatever, just bear in mind that I have even been banned from this forum at one point.

TAKE NO PRISONERS :coop:

Laggy