Hold

[BadMamaJama]

I'm completely new to BI games. I love team work first off, strategic minded when it comes to FPS'ers. I've been playing for a few days and notice a lot of people are misrepresenting game types for what they are. In Multiplay list the only ones that show up so far are Unknown, Coop, CTI, Hold. Of those 4 the only one that is actuall PVP is HOLD

[AJsarge]

So your point is?

The only full PvP is going to be deathmatch (and team DM). Coop is quite obviously the Human team against CPUs. And CTI is an objective-based game mode (similar to BF's Comquest) that is human squad leaders with AI squaddies, versus humans SLs with AI squaddies.

Soon however, you're going to see lots and lots more missions pop up as people start making them.

Oh, and what is hold? I've never seen it on the server list.

[whisper]

Or end of game of CTI, when independant AI is eradicated and you begin to encounter squads led by actual players.
But it's a different "PvP" than the one you're accustomed for, I guess ;) It can be good if you keep with it, it's a different skill-set altogether. Doesn't mean the "pure" PvP ni C&H is bad either, ofc

[BadMamaJama]

So your point is?

The only full PvP is going to be deathmatch (and team DM). Coop is quite obviously the Human team against CPUs. And CTI is an objective-based game mode (similar to BF's Comquest) that is human squad leaders with AI squaddies, versus humans SLs with AI squaddies.

Soon however, you're going to see lots and lots more missions pop up as people start making them.

Oh, and what is hold? I've never seen it on the server list.

You are obviously one of the people I was talking about. You're not helping. I don't need a explanation of what each is, as your definitions are inaccurate. I've played TDM. It wasn't that fun. I've been playing HOLD matches and they've been awesome. Taking sometimes 30 minutes to assault a single checkpoint. Everyone who's playing is loving it. Some playing on Vetren level with no enemy icons on maps or no third person view. And, the end game CTI is not PVP.

[whisper]

I'll take a note next time I kill players in the end of a CTI map that in fact, I'm not killing players :)
Can you, please, accept that some form of PvP are not exactly like what you want them to be, and still be a player facing a player? I'm not dissing pure-PvP and C&H, I love them. Show some respect yourself.

That said, your question/concern/demand is what, exactly?

[BadMamaJama]

I'll take a note next time I kill players in the end of a CTI map that in fact, I'm not killing players :)
Can you, please, accept that some form of PvP are not exactly like what you want them to be, and still be a player facing a player? I'm not dissing pure-PvP and C&H, I love them. Show some respect yourself.

That said, your question/concern/demand is what, exactly?

PVP with AI is co-op, it has AI in it. At the end of your game where you "PVP" you still have AI in your squad please stop trying to redefine something. Please don't call TDM or Hold Pure PVP and call what your doing "PVP lite."
I go back to my original post since you feel I have demands, questions and concerns. Just call a spade a spade. But, I mostly came here to bring light to a game mode that is awesome for PVP, no AI.

[luckyhendrix]

I must agree that there's not enough servers hosting PVP mission (and plz not the crapppy DM map that we findon some server which are the same since OPF and wich really don't fit to arma II gameplay).There's no point having a server that can host 32 to 64 people if when you play in it you meet an human once an hour ....

[whisper]

LOL
Watch the internet experts :D

Open your freaking minds, A2 has eye openers in it, but you refuse to watch them. (btw, RTS players are playing PvP too, guess they have a different definition of yours)

Anyway, to list you the coming Allmighty No-Puny-(Oh The Horror)-AI-In-It PvP maps :
- Zaphod is converting his Berzerk maps from ArmA1 to ArmA2
- Battlefield 1985 is being ported from OFP of old into ArmA2
Soon these 2 will be on many servers

You can check my sig too, but I mentionned AI as an option, I must be completely wrong.... (any help needed btw)

PS : there is still zero question or concern in your initial post. Did you mean there are too few PvP servers? That was said literally nowhere

[Richardg]

Where are the hold missions? Are they stock Arma2? What folder they in?

[Crazy Chris]

I agree on the hold maps. I've been having a blast on the ATOW server. Playing defense in that heavily-wooded map with a heavy MG spraying blindly in the direction of an incoming squad (of real, thinking, plotting players) hoping to tag a few of them.

I also enjoyed the hardcore version that doesn't show if you hit your target. It keeps you honest and raises the bar on the immersion factor a bit.

I loved A1, and although I second-guessed A2 at first, I'm loving it more everyday and I'm even considering joining a squad for the first time to increase the opportunities for teamwork.

[{S8G}Rub!c0n]

I have to agree that hold is by far the best that ive played.Also ive played some really good ctf.These are purely pvp..that ive been on.Hold is the best.The dm for arma 2 is such BS.The only thing i seen in dm is you have an auto weapon and map is tiny...GAY!Now hold you get to customize your loadout and theres teamwork involved who want to play that way and then theres the loners that do well on there own.In my opinion i think hold is the best,and look forward to playing it alot.

[BadMamaJama]

I agree on the hold maps. I've been having a blast on the ATOW server. Playing defense in that heavily-wooded map with a heavy MG spraying blindly in the direction of an incoming squad (of real, thinking, plotting players) hoping to tag a few of them.

I also enjoyed the hardcore version that doesn't show if you hit your target. It keeps you honest and raises the bar on the immersion factor a bit.

I loved A1, and although I second-guessed A2 at first, I'm loving it more everyday and I'm even considering joining a squad for the first time to increase the opportunities for teamwork.


I have to agree that hold is by far the best that ive played.Also ive played some really good ctf.These are purely pvp..that ive been on.Hold is the best.The dm for arma 2 is such BS.The only thing i seen in dm is you have an auto weapon and map is tiny...GAY!Now hold you get to customize your loadout and theres teamwork involved who want to play that way and then theres the loners that do well on there own.In my opinion i think hold is the best,and look forward to playing it alot.

Thanks guys, Keep the comments coming. The community deserves to know about this game mode. I've heard that with A2 it is a whole new experience playing AAS/HOLD over A1. I hope it gets some recognition and takes root in the community. I've noticed that some other PVP play modes are beginning to be lumped into HOLD mode now. I join some german servers and they have their own UMPC or some other modified stuff. It is nothing like AAS. Don't discourage, keep looking for the right servers.

[Bloodlet]

I agree. I played AAS/Hold last night on the TCombat server and it was great. The action was fairly constant and I had the satisfaction of knowing that when I killed someone, it was an actual player. My only gribe is that I wish the player limit was higher since the server only allowed for 32 players.

[Axejammer]

I played a few CTI games and they were fun yes. But then I ran across a HOLD server. that is all I play now.
I usually play on the ATOW server or on the other i forgot the name, but it has map markers off, i love that, its silly to look at a map and know where the enemy is. It also has FFP on (force first person) which I am starting to enjoy alot as well.

Hopefully more simular pure pvp game modes come around, and hopefully more hold maps are made, and servers opened. this is a great game mode for squad vs squad.

oh what fun !

[{S8G}Rub!c0n]

I agree. I played AAS/Hold last night on the TCombat server and it was great. The action was fairly constant and I had the satisfaction of knowing that when I killed someone, it was an actual player. My only gribe is that I wish the player limit was higher since the server only allowed for 32 players.

i played there for like 3 hrs last night also..

[BadMamaJama]

I played a few CTI games and they were fun yes. But then I ran across a HOLD server. that is all I play now.
I usually play on the ATOW server or on the other i forgot the name, but it has map markers off, i love that, its silly to look at a map and know where the enemy is. It also has FFP on (force first person) which I am starting to enjoy alot as well.

Hopefully more simular pure pvp game modes come around, and hopefully more hold maps are made, and servers opened. this is a great game mode for squad vs squad.

oh what fun !

Yes, ATOW and 1Para are the only 2 to date running nice maps/veteran settings. Forgive me if I missed one and again I'm talking about purely AAS.

[{S8G}Rub!c0n]

if any of you guys have TS thats playing the hold servers let me know. Hold seems to be filling up on the servers that are running it.Its sweet.Love it!

[Eggnogg13]

The purpose of this thread is......?

Whatever, I like coop more than Pvp, i just couldnt really get into Hold,or bersek.

You should give coop a shot, let the new AI challenge you.

[CarlGustaffa]

I like coop because I can adjust the AI skill to suit ours.
People don't respond too good to "please don't shoot so accurate, we're too old and slow" :p

[BadMamaJama]

The purpose of this thread is......?

Whatever, I like coop more than Pvp, i just couldnt really get into Hold,or bersek.

You should give coop a shot, let the new AI challenge you.



The purpose of the thread is to enlighten people about HOLD/AAS. Which you obviously understood, because you gave your 2 cents about it. But, I don't see how you saying I don't like it benefits the thread? AI are not more challeging, I'm sorry to say. Go find a "we are uber we really f'd up those AI" thread and support that. I am posting in this one to help the guys out there who are new to the game and looking for PVP.

[galzohar]

In the PvP gametypes, it's often so flawed by design that it goes bad no matter what gametype i is. I want to play PvP rather than coop, but right now every pvp mission I joined had some serious design flaws that really hurt the gameplay.

[Bloodlet]

In the PvP gametypes, it's often so flawed by design that it goes bad no matter what gametype i is. I want to play PvP rather than coop, but right now every pvp mission I joined had some serious design flaws that really hurt the gameplay.

Like?

[{S8G}Rub!c0n]

The purpose of the thread is to enlighten people about HOLD/AAS. Which you obviously understood, because you gave your 2 cents about it. But, I don't see how you saying I don't like it benefits the thread? AI are not more challeging, I'm sorry to say. Go find a "we are uber we really f'd up those AI" thread and support that. I am posting in this one to help the guys out there who are new to the game and looking for PVP.
any you have xfire? mine is 2003rubic0n add me if so we'll get in a server sometime :)

[galzohar]

I didn't list the exact mission names, but I tried hold, DM, CTF and CTI/crCTI.

Common issues:

- Bad respawn systems (Ignoring many bugs present with some respawn methods): Mobile spawns are bad. Spawning too far to require a vehicle every time is also bad. Which leads to:

- Zone size not suitable for number of players. Dying 2 seconds after spawning in DM is bad. Having 2 flags in CTF 50m from eachother with the spawn 10m behind the flag is bad too.

- Equipment choices often make it an even weirder experience, like having lightly armored vehicles but no light AT weapons, or having sniper rifles but no ACOGs, or just having weapon supply limited in some odd way.

All of this turns the should-be-awesome PvP experience into something that's edging unplayable.

[whisper]

@<hidden> : I suggest making yourself the mission that suits you and this way avoiding these design mistakes

[{S8G}Rub!c0n]

I didn't list the exact mission names, but I tried hold, DM, CTF and CTI/crCTI.

Common issues:

- Bad respawn systems (Ignoring many bugs present with some respawn methods): Mobile spawns are bad. Spawning too far to require a vehicle every time is also bad. Which leads to:

- Zone size not suitable for number of players. Dying 2 seconds after spawning in DM is bad. Having 2 flags in CTF 50m from eachother with the spawn 10m behind the flag is bad too.

- Equipment choices often make it an even weirder experience, like having lightly armored vehicles but no light AT weapons, or having sniper rifles but no ACOGs, or just having weapon supply limited in some odd way.

All of this turns the should-be-awesome PvP experience into something that's edging unplayable.

sounds like you need to jump on some of the hold servers im on...dont have those issues except some times the spawn is far away and vehicles are gone

[marius00]

Where can I download these HOLD game type missions these servers are running?

[BadMamaJama]

I didn't list the exact mission names, but I tried hold, DM, CTF and CTI/crCTI.

Common issues:

- Bad respawn systems (Ignoring many bugs present with some respawn methods): Mobile spawns are bad. Spawning too far to require a vehicle every time is also bad. Which leads to:

- Zone size not suitable for number of players. Dying 2 seconds after spawning in DM is bad. Having 2 flags in CTF 50m from eachother with the spawn 10m behind the flag is bad too.

- Equipment choices often make it an even weirder experience, like having lightly armored vehicles but no light AT weapons, or having sniper rifles but no ACOGs, or just having weapon supply limited in some odd way.

All of this turns the should-be-awesome PvP experience into something that's edging unplayable.

None of this has to do with Assault and Secure/ HOLD mode of play. Please stay on topic. It would be appreciated. :threadjacked:

[galzohar]

None of this has to do with Assault and Secure/ HOLD mode of play. Please stay on topic. It would be appreciated. :threadjacked:

None? Maybe you were playing different HOLD missions, but the ones that were on the servers I played definitely had most of those issues.

[BadMamaJama]

None? Maybe you were playing different HOLD missions, but the ones that were on the servers I played definitely had most of those issues.

Maybe you weren't playing Assault and Secure/HOLD. This thread is not about Team Death Match, Capture the Flag or what ever hybrid version someone has made. Look at what your complaints are.

*There are no mobile spawns in current versions of AAS yet, afaik.
*Zone sizes are more than suffiecient its the entire Island, granted the battle takes place around the AAS zones.
*You complain about TDM and CTF
*AAS you get every imaginable weapon class right from the beginning and customizalbe kits.

So, again I ask that you please stop misinforming the community.

[galzohar]

Those existed in servers that were labled as "HOLD" in the server browser. I don't know what else to say.

Some had mobile spawns.
Some had a zone way too big for the # of players the server was meant for (in HOLD it's usually a "too big" issue rather than the "too small" issue that's common in CTF/DM).
Some let you choose gear from the ammo boxes but most items weren't available.

So while those issues appear in all types of PvP missions, they ALSO appear in the HOLD type. Not in all missions, as it's a mission designer issue and not a gametype issue, but it's definitely out there and common enough for me to have run into it on every server I had tried so far.

[RN Escobar]

wow, i' don't think i've seen such a retarded thread in a long time, the OP, complains about PvP maps not being PvP because they have some AI elements (CTI), a long standing member of the forums points out that CTI is still PvP since any AI are controlled by a human, he then also points out that CTF C&H are "pure" PvP and then he gets shot down because they are not the AAS maps.

if you wanna rave about AAS thats great, i'm glad you found a playstyle you like, but to complain about people taking the thread off topic and they should get back on topic about AAS and how great it is?

Edit

i've never played these AAS maps but i would imagine they should fall into the C&H map style, are the map naming conventions of old not adhered too anymore?

[anfiach]

Have to agree Escobar, the OP was really misleading and for someone who claims to want to help the community by bringing light to a great style of play, he is particularly adversarial and just plain rude.

[BadMamaJama]

wow, i' don't think i've seen such a retarded thread in a long time, the OP, complains about PvP maps not being PvP because they have some AI elements (CTI), a long standing member of the forums points out that CTI is still PvP since any AI are controlled by a human, he then also points out that CTF C&H are "pure" PvP and then he gets shot down because they are not the AAS maps.

if you wanna rave about AAS thats great, i'm glad you found a playstyle you like, but to complain about people taking the thread off topic and they should get back on topic about AAS and how great it is?

Edit

i've never played these AAS maps but i would imagine they should fall into the C&H map style, are the map naming conventions of old not adhered too anymore?



Have to agree Escobar, the OP was really misleading and for someone who claims to want to help the community by bringing light to a great style of play, he is particularly adversarial and just plain rude.

Thanks for the free bump guys. Obviously two, Evolution or Domination fellas giving the thread some loving.

[Richardg]

Where can I get these AAR/hold missions?

[Bloodlet]

Just go to the filter and select "Hold" and it will show the available hold servers. There aren't usually many of them but then are fun.

[W1NDOWL1CKER]

In my modest opinion HOLD is the best gametype in ArmA 2. I'm glad that several people have confirmed to me that they too like HOLD the most and 2 of them will even start running dedicated HOLD servers.
Please, let everyone decide for themselves which gametype they like most, and please stop bickering about who is a more respected or more senior member of this forum.
Anyway, HOLD rules for me.

[galzohar]

Out of the currently existing gametypes, HOLD is probably the best. However a lot of the HOLD missions are still horribly made, but this isn't a HOLD-specific issue.

[whisper]

Just because, having played OFP, it feels very odd to see you all talking about "HOLD", it's called "HOLD" because it's the abbrieviation of "Capture & Hold", and "Hold" was the word that was fitting in the server list of the game :)
It's usually refered to as "C&H"

[BadMamaJama]

After playing in a lot of servers and talking to Admin's and players. I understand that a lot of Arma1 people are working on different versions of Capture & Hold, Capture the Flag and others. The Maps that most people seem to be enjoying are AAS "assault and secure" lumped under the HOLD classification. Uniquely different than other styles of play. Some AAS are different than others too depending who's tweeked them and the settings. It's a crap shoot depending on which one you join, they will eventually sort themselves out. Some you spawn only at Xray flag (horrible idea), some are bugged from testing beta maps. This link is very helpful describing how it works and whos running servers.

http://www.sbs.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Arma2_Advance_and_Secure

[galzohar]

Yes, I've definitely ran across bugged C&H missions as well, not just poorly designed ones.

[anfiach]

Thanks for the free bump guys. Obviously two, Evolution or Domination fellas giving the thread some loving.
Yes, pointing out that you are behaving like a prick is a clear indicator of our favorite type of game play :rolleyes:

Personally I'm getting frustrated with trying to find alternative play types in MP right now. I've managed 1 or 2 CTF games and 1 or 2 TDM games but not many options. Occasionally you find a decent round of COOP and the only HOLD mission I have found when I was on was a beta test with 3 other guys.

Pretty much just waiting on the community to come up with stuff. I'm really tired of games with impossibly difficult to use editors. BIS is on the right track with their modules and I hope they continue to improve on this idea. Some people like myself would like to throw together missions with the elements they desire without waiting for someone else to do it or spending frustrating hours pouring over documentation and learning to write scripts.

[BadMamaJama]

Yes, pointing out that you are behaving like a prick is a clear indicator of our favorite type of game play :rolleyes:

Personally I'm getting frustrated with trying to find alternative play types in MP right now. I've managed 1 or 2 CTF games and 1 or 2 TDM games but not many options. Occasionally you find a decent round of COOP and the only HOLD mission I have found when I was on was a beta test with 3 other guys.

Pretty much just waiting on the community to come up with stuff. I'm really tired of games with impossibly difficult to use editors. BIS is on the right track with their modules and I hope they continue to improve on this idea. Some people like myself would like to throw together missions with the elements they desire without waiting for someone else to do it or spending frustrating hours pouring over documentation and learning to write scripts.

Awesome, thanks for your imput. I'm really sorry the AI are not smart enough to come here and address your concerns. Keep checking back though maybe BIS will add that to the "TA DO LIST"

[whisper]

After playing in a lot of servers and talking to Admin's and players. I understand that a lot of Arma1 people are working on different versions of Capture & Hold, Capture the Flag and others. The Maps that most people seem to be enjoying are AAS "assault and secure" lumped under the HOLD classification. Uniquely different than other styles of play. Some AAS are different than others too depending who's tweeked them and the settings. It's a crap shoot depending on which one you join, they will eventually sort themselves out. Some you spawn only at Xray flag (horrible idea), some are bugged from testing beta maps. This link is very helpful describing how it works and whos running servers.

http://www.sbs.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Arma2_Advance_and_Secure
FYI my server is running them ;)