AI Dispersion Increased for more Immersion [Archive]

Thunderbird

Jun 19 2009, 08:50

Hi all,

- The dispersion does affect All AI units, does't matter to which side you belong.
- AI can spot you from far distances like in real life.
- The dispersion values do no effect the weapons anymore but are related to the aiming skills.

------------------------
Download (http://www.assaultmissionstudio.de/downloads.php?page_id=178) 1.0
------------------------

Best Regards,
TB

Mr_Centipede

Jun 19 2009, 08:55

So if I play as NAPA then the USMC still 1 bullet 1 hit by AI Heavy machine guns at 300m me?

Thunderbird

Jun 19 2009, 09:00

No, US Heavy Machine Guns got their dispersion increased too, but if you play as NAPA and face US soldiers, things will still be the same as with the original game.

Regards,
TB

Depleted

Jun 19 2009, 09:13

thanks for this man :) I hope you don't mind if i fine tune it for certain weapons to make it more interesting based on weapon stats.

Thunderbird

Jun 19 2009, 09:30

thanks for this man :) I hope you don't mind if i fine tune it for certain weapons to make it more interesting based on weapon stats.

Sure, feel free to edit it as you want.

Regards,
TB

---------- Post added at 09:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 AM ----------

As I get some questions by PM, I would like to point out 1 more thing, this Addon has been mainly done to play the campaign in "better" conditions, in oder words, with this Addon, you will survive a little longer than before.

Regards,
TB

Sickboy

Jun 19 2009, 09:37

Nice one Thunderbird!
Have you tried the precision setting in your armaprofile btw?
Over at ACE we tune the accuracy settings inside CfgAiSkill (config) so that the settings per weapon remain unaffected.

Thunderbird

Jun 19 2009, 10:05

Cheers for the tip Sickboy, I will get a look at the CfgAiSkill and see how things will evolve.

Regards,
TB

Snake Man

Jun 19 2009, 10:08

little Addon which does decrease the AI precision
Decrease? :confused:

Thunderbird

Jun 19 2009, 10:14

Decrease the AI precision = Increase the AI Dispersion.
Heh, something ununderstandable with that?

Regards,
TB

fideco

Jun 19 2009, 10:43

Thanks for the addon.
But is almost useless..
I think is better decrease AI precision in Arma profile without change weapons config.
Cheers

nedley

Jun 19 2009, 11:18

Decrease the AI precision = Increase the AI Dispersion.
Heh, something ununderstandable with that?

Regards,
TB

Its totally clear, I don't ununderstand at all.

Thunderbird

Jun 19 2009, 12:01

Okey, there is seamingly a better way to increase the dispersion values, following Sickboy's advice, I got a look at some aspects of the AI and there is a way to seriously tweak it in order to make the AI less precise and thus, make combat more immersive, I tested it for 2 hours and the result is very satisfying:

- Open your \Documents\ArmA 2\

- And open with your notepad 'yourname.ArmA2Profile'

- Find precisionEnemy=.... lines and replace the numbers there by 0.4 to get something like this precisionEnemy=0.40000001;

- Then go to your Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\dta\ folder

- Uncompile bin.pbo by using kegetys unpbo tool (Right click), unwrap (Right click) the config.bin to get a config.cpp

- Find cfgAISkill and replace the values there by these ones:

class CfgAISkill {
aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 0.5, 0.5};
aimingShake[] = {0, 0, 0.8, 0.8};
aimingSpeed[] = {0, 0.5, 0.9, 1};
endurance[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
spotDistance[] = {0, 0.2, 1, 0.4};
spotTime[] = {0, 0, 1, 0.7};
courage[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
reloadSpeed[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
commanding[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
general[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
};

- Of course, register the new config, delete the old config.bin and let only the newly edited config.cpp

- convert the 'bin' folder to bin.pbo by using again kegetys tool (Right click).

- Create a MOD folder in your \ArmA 2\ main folder and call it as you want.

- Inside that 'new mod folder', create a \dta\ folder

- Put there the new bin.pbo and create a shortcut to your new MOD folder

Regards,
TB

ahmedjbh

Jun 19 2009, 12:12

i wish someone would give us noobies an easy downloadable option, or for BI to do this as standard, or maybe give us the option to adjust this in game.

Sickboy

Jun 19 2009, 12:14

Thanks for taking the hints into consideration Thunderbird!

I would recommend a simple replacement config though; http://dev-heaven.net/boards/11/topics/show/1314

Mr Burns

Jun 19 2009, 12:41

I tried if A1 "SIX_Repl_AIAccuracy.pbo" still worked and it did.
The addon sits on our server for quite a while now and it seems as if it helped making firefights last longer - the best thing is that nobody else needs to download it :)

fideco

Jun 19 2009, 14:38

Good work Thunderbird and good hint Sickboy!
You always seem to me my old school teacher:)
Now it's time to test Thunderbird AI setup.
Cheers

Imutep

Jun 19 2009, 16:14

Thx for this nice addon, Thunderbird :)

Put it on our addon section at Assault Mission Studio
http://www.assaultmissionstudio.de/images/downloads/dlicon.gif (http://www.assaultmissionstudio.de/downloads.php?page_id=178)
AI Dispersion Increased by Thunderbird

Thunderbird

Jun 19 2009, 17:09

Cheers for the link Imutep.
Indeed Sickboy, a replacement config would make people's life much easier, will do this as soon as BIS release the patch 1.02

Regards,
TB

Kremator

Jun 20 2009, 09:14

What a superb community ......keep it up guys!

fabrizio_T

Jun 20 2009, 20:58

Hmm ... tweaking aimingAccuracy in CfgAISkill and/or precisionFriendly/precisionEnemy will make your firefights last longer, but lowering the values to about 0.4 will have 2 tactical pitfalls, unless you play only with units having maxed skill:

1) your machinegunners will be almost useless, except at point blank range. Also they will cause friendly fire accidents.

2) You are flattening the effects of difference in unit skills. So a few highly skilled units tend not to stand a chance against many poorly skilled opponents.

The issue with ARMA2 is that the MINIMAL unit accuracy is generally too high and that's hard to fix unless we tweak weapons dispersion values.

BTW: some people, namely the creator of the FFN mod for ArmA, solved the problem deviating randomly by script each and every fired bullet. That solved the problem, but was very a CPU-heavy solution!

Thunderbird

Jun 20 2009, 23:21

but lowering the values to about 0.4 will have 2 tactical pitfalls

0.4 value is intended to your ArmA2 profile, not to the cfgAISkill.
Feel free to tweak the values as you want to reach the dispersion level you'd like.
Regards,
TB

[X] Charlie

Jun 22 2009, 14:16

How is this handled MP wise? Can just the host have his AI modified and it will be reflected to all clients?

bonchie

Jun 22 2009, 21:37

So how do you install this? I'm new to modding ArmA.

I downloaded the .pbo but I'm not sure what to do with it.

retrofly

Jun 23 2009, 10:28

Cheers for the link Imutep.
Indeed Sickboy, a replacement config would make people's life much easier, will do this as soon as BIS release the patch 1.02

Regards,
TB

So we just put this file in \Arma2\New_Mod\dta\AI_Dispersion.pbo

Then create a shortcut of this file, is this just a simple right click create shortcut thingy or do we have to edit the current shortcut for Arma2 by adding "+AI_Dispersion.pbo" in the properties section?

Sorry im an Arma Noob :)

MQ-9 Reaper

Jun 23 2009, 20:23

Thanks for this ! very useful.

Chomp

Jun 25 2009, 00:41

So how do you install this? I'm new to modding ArmA.

I downloaded the .pbo but I'm not sure what to do with it.

Yeah perhaps a readme included w/ the download would be good. Some of us are new to ARMA mods.

BuddhaBang

Jun 25 2009, 09:53

Nice one Thunderbird, getting this done tonight when i get home. Cheers.
Enchante!

MattXR

Jun 25 2009, 09:56

@<hidden> Everyone :

AI_Dispersion.pbo is an Addon and goes into a Modfolder Addons
---
If your going to edit the cfgs etc in the second part of the post is where you edit the dta folders etc

Thunderbird

Jun 25 2009, 10:04

Please people don't download anymore this version, a new and way better one is coming very soon.

Regards,
TB

retrofly

Jun 25 2009, 10:11

Hi
I used the "old" version and the AI couldn't hit me from a few meters, even on experts. I just pulle dout my pistol and shot em in the face :D.

Hopefully yourr new one will be better :yay:

EBass

Jun 25 2009, 11:35

If I understand this right, this only affects enemy forces?

In that case may I suggest you make two versions, one as advertised perhaps to make the campaign or SP missions a little bit frustrating, and one with global values decreased for missions where you are playing AS Chedaki etc?

Thunderbird

Jun 25 2009, 12:00

No worries, the upcoming version will affect all sides, except you as "Human", doesn't matter whether you are russian or US or CDF...

Regards,
TB

---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------

Okey, here is the new version -1.0- :

- This time, the dispersion does affect All AI units, does't matter to which side you belong.
- AI can spot you from far distances like in real life.
- The dispersion values do no effect the weapons anymore but are related to the aiming skills.

Download (http://uploadfile.org/download.php?id=iE0rUOP7fLwg9x4Zn1ol)

Play again the campaign to notice the difference. ;]
Regards,
TB

DMarkwick

Jun 25 2009, 13:58

Thanks for the new version :)

But it appears there's only 10 download slots, and they've all gone :(

Smiley Nick

Jun 25 2009, 14:26

Can this be used on a server only basis, or will this only work if clients also have this addon?

Thanks for the work :)

Cole

Jun 25 2009, 14:27

Hope Thunderbird doesn't mind, I made a few mirrors of the 1.0 version since I was fast enough to download it and the original server already crossed the 10 downloads limit:

iFile.it Download (http://ifile.it/ec63l7b)

MediaFire Download (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3eaaf5c0fdfd2137ed24a2875c7fa58ee04e75f6e8ebb871)

MEGAUPLOAD Download (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NIKP747K)

CaptainBravo

Jun 25 2009, 14:32

Could someone please for the benefite of those new to Arma2 (including me) confirm how to add this pbo to mod folder:

I have created a new short cut and added following to Target:

"C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\arma2.exe" ; "-mod=@<hidden>";

The pbo was added to
C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\@<hidden>\AddOns

Thanks for the help.

Imutep

Jun 25 2009, 15:03

Thx for new version, Thunderbird!
Put it on our addon section at Assault Mission Studio and updated the download link.
http://www.assaultmissionstudio.de/images/downloads/dlicon.gif (http://www.assaultmissionstudio.de/downloads.php?page_id=178)
AI Dispersion Increased [1.0] by Thunderbird

Robalo

Jun 25 2009, 15:22

"C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\arma2.exe" ; "-mod=@<hidden>";

Try this:

"C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\arma2.exe" -mod=@<hidden>

Thunderbird

Jun 25 2009, 16:37

Thanks a bunch for the links posted above.

Regards,
TB

BuddhaBang

Jun 25 2009, 17:42

Merci beaucoup Thunderbird. Thanks a million.

Drayth

Jun 25 2009, 23:35

Awesome job. Thanks, TB.

Foxhound

Jun 26 2009, 22:06

Release frontpaged at the Armaholic homepage (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6086).

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/3-animation.png (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6085)
AI Dispersion Increased for more Immersion v1.0 (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6085)

fabrizio_T

Jun 27 2009, 09:12

Please don't get me wrong, i respect the effort put by thunderbird in this mod, but (IMHO) these settings don't work well with classes other than riflemen.

I tried this mod with a target range script i've made.

With this mod a prone machinegunner with maxed skill has an average "shots on target" ratio of 1,5% for 250m. distance. So he basically is worthless even at moderate distance, he just needs to fire in average 8-10 bursts in order to simply hit anything.

A prone sniper with maxed skill firing from 250m (! normally i would have checked 600m) will miss the target in average 77% of the times ("shots on target" = 23%). If i change the distance to 400m he will miss 85%.

Mind that here i tested the most favourable situation for AI: prone, maxed skill, not-moving target; the "shots on target" percentage is an average for 10 tries.

I think the problem with precision can't be fixed by simply lowering CfgAISkill variables, also weapons stats such as aiDispersionCoefY/aiDispersionCoefX have to be taken in account and tweaked at least for machineguns ...

This is not a rant, just my 2 cents.

BTW: Shame Eliteness "unraps" weapons.pbo/config.bin fine, but it does not "rapify" it again correctly ... anybody having the same problem?

Drayth

Jun 27 2009, 21:22

Curious what the normal AI gets for these?

vengeance1

Jun 28 2009, 05:04

Tired it in Domination and I thought it worked well.

Chomp

Jun 28 2009, 23:58

Wow what a difference!

Played trial by fire and had a 10 minute long sustained firefight going to and at the airfield. Usually it's over in a minute because of the laser accuracy.

Very nice!

andersson

Jun 29 2009, 08:14

Can anyone explain why this is better than tweaking "precisionenemy" in the userprofile if it affects all weapons? Snipers should have good precision for example.

I concur with fabrizio_T regarding the AIdispersionCoefX/Y on the weapons. Thats the way to go.

TB, this addon is needed as the default AI is too hard imho. If tweaked correctly this will help people having fun in arma2!

I dont understand why BIS made them so hard default. Imo too much realism compared to fun. I believe it would have been better for them to have less precise AI and then people can find out how to make them harder. That wouldnt scare new players off and give a satisfaction when its possible to make the AI better.

Tankbuster

Jun 29 2009, 15:51

Can anyone explain why this is better than tweaking "precisionenemy" in the userprofile if it affects all weapons? Snipers should have good precision for example..
I'd like to know this too.

Thunderbird

Jun 29 2009, 18:10

This is better because it does directly modifie the source of the AI behaviour parameters set by BIS. Furthermore, these parameters are editable one by one, whereas 'precisionenemy' seems to be a global edition of these parameters and it combines all parameters in one value.

I will keep tweaking this Addon until I'd reach more satisfying values.
Regards,
TB

Shadow NX

Jun 30 2009, 19:01

So far the missions i played with this mod were a lot more fun and didnt make me save as often as i usually do.

Personally i think that even if it has tiny flaws it is like it should be where you arent automaticly dead if an Ai spots you a second before you can see it hidden somwhere in the deep grass of Chernarus.

I guess it wont happen but if BIS considers something like this in the next patch -maybe just for the first two difficulty levels- it would surely not be a bad decission.

Not to mention it will automaticly make the game bit more attractive for those who found ArmA and ArmA2 a bit hard and unforgiving.

stun

Jul 1 2009, 19:11

Thanks for this Thunderbird! I'm looking forward to see how this addon develops.

Brevado

Jul 2 2009, 20:16

I'm kind of new to this, but, is there a way to only tweak it for certain units?

Like say I want to put down an individual rifleman, could I make it so I could adjust his accuracy, but keep my snipers and machine gunners are a more decent level?

I don't want the special forces units/snipers to be super inaccurate, even if there skill is full

Thunderbird

Jul 2 2009, 20:40

fabrizioT

Jul 2 2009, 20:48

Yes, I'm working on something in these regards.

Regards,
TB

That's interesting news!

Miles Teg

Jul 3 2009, 02:40

Has anyone checked to see if these values also effect the gunners on armored vehicles? That's kinda important also.
I think this is an interesting experiment although personally I prefer the weopons themselves to be modified in terms of dispersion and recoil characteristics.

I think alot of people forget the old BAS JAM3 pack for OFP. That was a very successful standardization that I hope ACE (or any similar mod) follows. That way a player, for example, would NOT be as accurate firing an AK-47 as say, an M16A2 (which is vastly more accurate in the hands of a competent shooter). That way each individual weapon can be carefully tailored to reflect real world input from people who have experience with these various weapon systems. With that said, I'm sure it won't hurt to tone down the AI accuracy a little bit.
Ideally if AI accuracy adjustments can be narrowed to specific classes, that would even be better.
So I hope you can work out some new scripting voodoo T-bird. Keep up the good work!

Chris G.
aka-Miles Teg<GD>

fabrizio_T

Jul 4 2009, 22:01

Thunderbird are you working on tweaking AI dispersion values for machinegunners / snipers or have you found some better way ?

flake

Jul 5 2009, 01:30

excellent mod

Hraf

Jul 6 2009, 13:17

I think this mod is a great step forward. I think AI detection AND accuracy is too good. The lethality of ARMA 2 firefights is way way too high. There are statistics on the average number of small caliber bullets fired per casuality in firefights and usually many hundreds or even thousands of bullets are needed to kill one enemy. Just check any of the numerous firefight videos from Afghanistan or Iraq on youtube. This ofcourse doesn't apply to a short range ambush situation, but a long range firefight where all participants are prone or behind cover.

I also think the enemy can pinpoint your position way too easy. I belive that the enemy quite easily should detect your general position once you eg fire a weapon, but that they hit and kill you with just a few very well aimed bullets when you are kneeling or prone under a bush at 400 meters is just silly.

There is also a playability element - if I have problems spotting the enemy at 400 meters, it gets kind of boring if he (or my AI teammates) spot each other every time without fail.

DarkMater

Jul 6 2009, 14:02

Yeah, this does not seem to apply to armor, can this be added to vehicles?

[SEN]Archangel

Jul 6 2009, 23:49

Hi all,

Yes, the accuracy can be tailored for each weapon by editing the aiDispersionCoefY and aiDispersionCoefX for each one, at the moment it's set for 6.0 for rifles, 21.0 for HMG's and 17.0 for LMG's, vehicle coaxial MG's are also set at 21.0 for the most part.

I've tweaked these values in mods for both VBS1 and OFP and have begun to experiment with this in Arma2 by making the default value for rifles at around 10.0-12.0 and so far it's working quite well, with firefights lasting longer and becoming more intense. Best of all is that you can leave the value as 6.0 for the scoped weapons so that Snipers/Marksmen don't lose their effectiveness.

I've tested this on LAN with a few mates and so far there's been a huge reduction in the 'Robocop syndrome' in the AI units, and the human players in our team now tend to suffer similar casualties to the AI's instead of being consistently wiped out. They're still fast and can see you through certain obstacles, just not super-accurate anymore.

Suffice to say that this has swung the opinion of a friend of mine who was about to take his game back, he loves it now and feels that now it's a challenge as opposed to a lesson in frustration.

Hope this helps anyone who might be interested in modding this into their own game?

Regards,

-- Archangel

Hraf

Jul 7 2009, 09:22

Did some more playing with the mod yesterday. Worked extremely well on longer distances, but led to some silliness on shorter distances. There was one instance where I was prone and a standing enemy was shooting at me from behind at perhaps 30-50 meters and was missing me all the time. Maybe that was a fluke?

Darkmage

Jul 7 2009, 11:03

Archangel;1350686']Hi all,

Yes, the accuracy can be tailored for each weapon by editing the aiDispersionCoefY and aiDispersionCoefX for each one, at the moment it's set for 6.0 for rifles, 21.0 for HMG's and 17.0 for LMG's, vehicle coaxial MG's are also set at 21.0 for the most part.

I've tweaked these values in mods for both VBS1 and OFP and have begun to experiment with this in Arma2 by making the default value for rifles at around 10.0-12.0 and so far it's working quite well, with firefights lasting longer and becoming more intense. Best of all is that you can leave the value as 6.0 for the scoped weapons so that Snipers/Marksmen don't lose their effectiveness.

I've tested this on LAN with a few mates and so far there's been a huge reduction in the 'Robocop syndrome' in the AI units, and the human players in our team now tend to suffer similar casualties to the AI's instead of being consistently wiped out. They're still fast and can see you through certain obstacles, just not super-accurate anymore.

Suffice to say that this has swung the opinion of a friend of mine who was about to take his game back, he loves it now and feels that now it's a challenge as opposed to a lesson in frustration.

Hope this helps anyone who might be interested in modding this into their own game?

Regards,

-- Archangel

Archangel are you planning on releasing any of this to the public?

I've been using the AI dispersion mod and although it makes the enemy AI less accurate it also makes my AI buddies completely useless in SP and I find myself having to do most of the killing in an engagement. I'd like a bit of support (they are elite force recon after all?!) but not be shot at 1km by an ememy before I even spot him :(

fabrizio_T

Jul 7 2009, 14:38

Archangel;1350686']Hi all,

Yes, the accuracy can be tailored for each weapon by editing the aiDispersionCoefY and aiDispersionCoefX for each one, at the moment it's set for 6.0 for rifles, 21.0 for HMG's and 17.0 for LMG's, vehicle coaxial MG's are also set at 21.0 for the most part.

I've tweaked these values in mods for both VBS1 and OFP and have begun to experiment with this in Arma2 by making the default value for rifles at around 10.0-12.0 and so far it's working quite well, with firefights lasting longer and becoming more intense. Best of all is that you can leave the value as 6.0 for the scoped weapons so that Snipers/Marksmen don't lose their effectiveness.

I've tested this on LAN with a few mates and so far there's been a huge reduction in the 'Robocop syndrome' in the AI units, and the human players in our team now tend to suffer similar casualties to the AI's instead of being consistently wiped out. They're still fast and can see you through certain obstacles, just not super-accurate anymore.

Suffice to say that this has swung the opinion of a friend of mine who was about to take his game back, he loves it now and feels that now it's a challenge as opposed to a lesson in frustration.

Hope this helps anyone who might be interested in modding this into their own game?

Regards,

-- Archangel

Can you release that as a mod?
I'd like to check it out.

camus25555

Jul 7 2009, 15:07

AI is so overpowered, i did some test in the night without NVgoggles they can still see me and kill me in 1 burst ...

[SEN]Archangel

Jul 7 2009, 17:04

Hi all,

I'm still experimenting with the accuracy of the vehicle/static weapons, but I'll see if I can release this as a mod fairly soon so you guys can test it and see what you think.

-=New=-
Just found out that setting the AI's skill to maximum overrides the aiDispersionCoef settings, thus lowering it back to 1 again regardless of the value in the config, will have to experiment with making different fire modes for human and AI, with AI having higher manual dispersion. I don't want to edit the AI skills themselves as it has the adverse effect of making the AI marksmen/snipers ineffective, will keep you posted.

Cheers,

-- Archangel

Thunderbird

Jul 7 2009, 18:30

Feel free to release it, even here, it doesn't matter.
As long as this contributes to make things evolve and go further.

Yes, the accuracy can be tailored for each weapon by editing the aiDispersionCoefY and aiDispersionCoefX

That's what I have done with the previous release then I prefered to not modifie the weapons accuracy values but rather the AI skills.

---------------

A new version is coming soon, with a more life-like dispersion, as it is hard like hell to hit anything in real life, especially in stressing situations...
Maybe militaries or former militaries know what I'm trying to highlight here.

---------------

Regards,
TB

Hraf

Jul 7 2009, 19:09

Note that my current CfgAISkill (just extracted from my unmodified config.bin) looks like this:

class CfgAISkill {
aimingAccuracy[] = {0,0,1,1 };
aimingShake[] = {0,0,1,1 };
aimingSpeed[] = {0,0.500000,1,1 };
endurance[] = {0,0,1,1 };
spotDistance[] = {0,0.200000,1,0.400000 };
spotTime[] = {0,0,1,0.700000 };
courage[] = {0,0,1,1 };
reloadSpeed[] = {0,0,1,1 };
commanding[] = {0,0,1,1 };
general[] = {0,0,1,1 };
};

There has evidently been changes to eg spotDistance and spotTime from those previously reported. I'm of course running 1.02.58134. Can someone else confirm this?

Edit:

Maybe those values always has been like this by default. But Thunderbirds custom CfgAISkill actually increases spotDistance and spotTime to:

class CfgAISkill {
aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0.16, 1, 0.22};
aimingShake[] = {0, 0.18, 1, 0.22};
aimingSpeed[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};
courage[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};
commanding[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};
endurance[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};
general[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};
reloadSpeed[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};
spotDistance[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};
spotTime[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};
};

Hraf

Jul 7 2009, 21:23

Did some testing of my own, trying out various values in the CfgAISkill table.

My somewhat disturbing conclusion is that regardless of the values, is that it doesn't matter if I'm prone, kneeling or standing up at a 100 meters, 200 meters or 300 meters, the AI will still detect me and kill me in the same time. I can make it take longer or shorter time, depending on the values in CfgAISkill, but it doesn't matter if I'm standing up at 100 meters (pretty easy target) or lying down at 300 meters (pretty hard target).

I might be exaggerating a little, but there wasn't any real difference.

If I'm right, then it probably is a bug. I did my testing on the flat grass between the runways at the Vybor (Chernarus) airfiled using an opfor and a marine rifleman. Someone care to try to verify my result?

Beagle

Jul 7 2009, 21:29

Yes it is true, without any movement you will get shot.
But you will see the difference if you apply fire and movement.
Dont wait until the A.I. has a focus on you.

Hraf

Jul 7 2009, 21:39

Seriously, a prone target at 300 meters with only iron sights is a HARD target just to hit. It is a pretty hard target to even spot. Shouldn't the AI on average have to work a bit more to kill you at that distance than if you are walking towards the enemy at 100 meters?

Thunderbird

Jul 7 2009, 22:43

Well, as some of you seem to handle pretty well the 'unpbo-ing' / 'pbo-ing', then get a look at these new values, they seem to change a lot in-game (Still WIP, though):

class CfgAISkill {
aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 0.3, 0.3};
aimingShake[] = {0, 0, 0.5, 0.5};
aimingSpeed[] = {0, 0.5, 1, 1};
endurance[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
spotDistance[] = {0, 0.2, 1, 1};
spotTime[] = {0, 0, 0.6, 0.6};
courage[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
reloadSpeed[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
commanding[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
general[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};
};

Regards,
TB

Mr_Centipede

Jul 8 2009, 00:13

Hraf

Jul 8 2009, 07:11

hi TB, could explain more about the various numbers? eg:
aimingAccuracy[] = {a, b, c, d};
what are the numbers a,b,c,d represents?

thank you

No one knows what the values represent.

Thunderbird

Jul 8 2009, 08:08

hi TB, could explain more about the various numbers? eg:
aimingAccuracy[] = {a, b, c, d};
what are the numbers a,b,c,d represents?

thank you

A = Low skill value
B = Low skill aiming accuracy probability
C = High skill value
D = High skill aiming accuracy probability

1 = 100% Precision
0 = 0 % Precision

In oder words : aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 0.3, 0.3};
-> 0.3 = 30% Precision, so the AI will have 70% of chance to miss you.

Regards,
TB

CaptainBravo

Jul 8 2009, 09:24

At the risk of sounding noob (which I am!) I have a couple of basic??

- where is the folder that you unpbo/pbo?

- Could you clarify what is high/low skill value?

- would changing these values effect your own aim/accuracy?

Thanks for the geat work.

Sickboy

Jul 8 2009, 09:29

A = Low skill value
B = Low skill aiming accuracy probability
C = High skill value
D = High skill aiming accuracy probability

1 = 100% Precision
0 = 0 % Precision

In oder words : aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 0.3, 0.3};
-> 0.3 = 30% Precision, so the AI will have 70% of chance to miss you.

Regards,
TB
Hey mate, been a few weeks again :P
I think this is (partially) wrong;
In oder words : aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 0.3, 0.3};"

Afaik, this will mean, that at AI Skill of 0.3, the aiming accuracy will be 0.3.
Meaning that if the AI Skill is 1.0, the aiming accuracy will be 1 again.
Sry if this was intentional :D

Thunderbird

Jul 8 2009, 09:31

But the higher the value is, the more accurate the enemy is? or is there something wrong here?
Doesn't 1 mean a high accuracy and 0 a very low one?

Regards,
TB

Sickboy

Jul 8 2009, 09:34

But the higher the value is, the more accurate the enemy is? or is there something wrong here?
Doesn't 1 mean a high accuracy and 0 a very low one?

Regards,
TB
It does, but there are 4 values, defining low skill, and how high accuracy is at that low skill, and defining high skill, and how high accuracy is at that high skill.

AFAIK it works like this;
{0, 0.3, 1, 0.6}
low skill: 0, accuracy 0.3
high skill: 1, accuracy 0.6

Which should mean:
If AI skill == 0, Accuracy will be 0.3
If AI skill == 1, Accuracy will be 0.6
It will then calculate what Accuracy would be at different skills.

I think this is done so you can make something else than linear effect.

Hraf

Jul 8 2009, 10:11

The only sort of documented value is spotDistance in the Wiki where it is said that the low skill probability applies to the low skill value and lower skill and that high skill probability applies to high skill value and higher skills. For example, if the values are:

{0.2, 0.3, 0.5, 0.6} then an AI with skill 0.2 or lower will have 0.3 probability and an AI with skill 0.5 and higher will have 0.6 probability and skill values in between will have probabilities in between.

Of course I don't know the basic skill values of eg an OpFor riflemen. That skill value is then probably multiplied with the general AI difficulty modifier, eg 0.6 for Normal mode.

But I don't think all the values work this way. For example spotTime seems more closely related to the actual time it takes for the AI to react. With a low spotTime value the AI takes foerver to even get prone if you fire a few shots in the vicinity, with a high value it reacts must faster.

fabrizio_T

Jul 8 2009, 10:21

It does, but there are 4 values, defining low skill, and how high accuracy is at that low skill, and defining high skill, and how high accuracy is at that high skill.

AFAIK it works like this;
{0, 0.3, 1, 0.6}
low skill: 0, accuracy 0.3
high skill: 1, accuracy 0.6

Which should mean:
If AI skill == 0, Accuracy will be 0.3
If AI skill == 1, Accuracy will be 0.6
It will then calculate what Accuracy would be at different skills.

I think this is done so you can make something else than linear effect.

I agree 100% with sickboy for most, but in the case:

AimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 0.3, 0.3};

I have a doubt ... could be that any skill value eventually > 0.3 will be defaulting to 0.3 ? ... just a possibility ;)

-> 0.3 = 30% Precision, so the AI will have 70% of chance to miss you.

I don't think 0.3 = 30% Precision = 70% of chance to miss you.
The chance to miss depends at least also on distance + dimension of the target.
What you are tweaking here is some sort of "dispersion radius" i think, that is now 3,33X compared to default (1).
Also i can't tell for sure that for a fixed distance the way this kind of "radius" changes is linearly proportional to the AimingAccuracy value you are setting ...

But the higher the value is, the more accurate the enemy is? or is there something wrong here?
Doesn't 1 mean a high accuracy and 0 a very low one?

Exactly.

Oh, by the way, negative values won't work ;)

Hraf

Jul 8 2009, 13:49

...
The chance to miss depends at least also on distance + dimension of the target.
...

Well, my simple tests indicate that neither distance nor dimensions of target matter very much. See my post above.

fabrizio_T

Jul 9 2009, 06:30

Well, my simple tests indicate that neither distance nor dimensions of target matter very much. See my post above.

I'm sorry, i've seen the opposite, which kind of test did you made ?

The difference it's easily noticeable to me, for example try making a machinegunner target a man from 500m. with aimingAccuracy = 1. Then try again with aimingAccuracy = 0.3.
Try the same with distance 250m.

Can you see the differences ? :)

Also see here:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1332272&postcount=43
for some better detailed data.

Regards.

DMarkwick

Jul 9 2009, 09:43

Hey Thunderbird, I've been tweaking & reworking the JTD Hide addon for ArmA2, and my findings are this:

Even if the AI do not see you when you fire upon them, they are very good at "guessing" where you are. Are you able to tweak this "guessing" ability as well as their accuracy?

To clarify what JTD Hide does: it slowly hides you by raising a doughnut-shaped viewblock object around you, so after a minute or so you cannot be seen. If you fire, it drops down slightly, encouraging you to fire not more than once each 20 or so seconds. If you move, it disappears, if you die, it disappears, if you fire too often too fast, it disappears, and if the enemy get close they can see down "into" it & see you.
However, one, single shot, it should still hide you effectively. My tests show that this is happening, but their suppressive fire seems very accurate, and they nearly always move right up to my exact position.

fabrizio_T

Jul 9 2009, 14:26

Even if the AI do not see you when you fire upon them, they are very good at "guessing" where you are.

Yes they are indeed.
Many people are reporting this kind of problem on the bugtracker.

Also in v1.02 nearby DEAD enemies will report YOUR perceived position to their mates :). Luckily this is fixed in v1.03.

Kremator

Jul 9 2009, 17:22

Where is the changelog that you are looking at ?

vengeance1

Jul 9 2009, 20:30

Also in v1.02 nearby DEAD enemies will report YOUR perceived position to their mates :). Luckily this is fixed in v1.03.

:confused: v1.03? First page show v1.0 is there another download somewhere?

Tankbuster

Jul 9 2009, 20:45

Kremator

Jul 9 2009, 21:32

I THINK he's talking about PATCH 1.03 ..... where's the changelog fabrizio T?

Brevado

Jul 10 2009, 02:32

fabrizio_T

Jul 10 2009, 08:01

I THINK he's talking about PATCH 1.03 ..... where's the changelog fabrizio T?

No changelog since patch v1.03 is NOT OUT ;)

I know it's fixed in PATCH v1.03 since SUMA told it's ALREADY fixed into a BI internal build (58190).

See for reference:
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/2067

Mr_Centipede

Jul 11 2009, 14:28

Hi, I did some changes to the config, seems changing AimingSpeed value will make them fire less rapidly. I think in a long distance firefight, they can conserve more ammo. As of right now, they waste too much ammo. Just thought to let you know, and maybe confirm/disconfirm my findings. thank you

Dan86

Jul 11 2009, 20:38

Can i use that as a difficulty setting on dedicated server? Putting it on server addon didnt change nothing actually, still AI a bit too precise (300m mg kill with 3 shots).

DayGlow

Jul 12 2009, 00:53

how do you install this with steam?

I added it to my addons folder and right now this is the desktop short cut

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\Steam.exe" -applaunch 33900 -mod=@<hidden>"

The applaunch is the game itself

if you are using a Steam created icon the way to get command line functions to work is to open up Steam itself and:

- go to My Games tab
- right click on ArmA2
- click on properties
- click on launch options
- enter command line arguments.

This will let you launch the game with mods.

Linelor

Jul 12 2009, 06:39

Any way I can do something similar to this with my server without having to make everyone download a mod? The difficulty settings seem to not want to be custom done for some reason.

Mr_Centipede

Jul 12 2009, 06:39

I have another question, regarding aimingShake value. does higher value means the ai will shake more or is it less? does aimingShake = 1 means they dont have any shake at all or they will shake like crazy?

Same about reloadSpeed, does it mean they will spray more often and have to regularly reload or does it mean when they reload, the reloading process will be longer?

Brevado

Jul 12 2009, 13:45

if you are using a Steam created icon the way to get command line functions to work is to open up Steam itself and:

- go to My Games tab
- right click on ArmA2
- click on properties
- click on launch options
- enter command line arguments.

This will let you launch the game with mods.

Thank you! :yay:

Daniel

Jul 12 2009, 13:57

Any way I can do something similar to this with my server without having to make everyone download a mod? The difficulty settings seem to not want to be custom done for some reason.

I'd like to hear confirmation on this, but in OFP and ArmA these kind of server side mods were not required by clients. Because server controlled AI is not affected by client settings. I assume this works the same way in ArmA 2 but i'd like to have it confirmed.

[SEN]Archangel

Jul 12 2009, 22:22

Hi all,

This is the first beta of the weapons pack I'm trying to port over to Arma2, this version just contains a config that tweaks the dispersion of the AI units to help prevent the 'Robocop' syndrome that many players were experiencing.

Snippet from the readme:-

ADDON DESCRIPTION
=====================

This addon attempts to reduce the accuracy of the default AI by adding hidden fire modes to each weapon that only the AI can use, these fire modes have between 2-4 times the default weapon dispersion - depending on whether the fire mode is using semi/burst/fullauto and if the weapon is using optics or iron sights.

As the AI isn't affected by weapon recoil these changes help reduce the ability of the AI's to inflict first round kills on both human and other AI opponents at long range using automatic fire. This not only increases the duration of firefights but also gives human players a chance to fire back without being killed outright - although this can and does still happen the frequency has been reduced to almost realistic levels, thus adding to the overall atmosphere of the game.

Note that long-range scoped weapons with a zoom greater than x4 have been left alone, otherwise snipers/marksmen would miss too much.

You can find the file here. (http://rapidshare.com/files/255119011/sen_weapons.rar.html)

Please experiment with this as much as you like and see how you get on, I look forward to any feedback.

Enjoy. :)

-- Archangel

Mr_Centipede

Jul 13 2009, 00:04

Arcangel, no offense to you mate, but this thread is Thunderbird's thread, so you should create you own thread about your addon. As it is, it seems your highjacking the thread.

[SEN]Archangel

Jul 13 2009, 01:12

Arcangel, no offense to you mate, but this thread is Thunderbird's thread, so you should create you own thread about your addon. As it is, it seems your highjacking the thread.

Ahh, yes my 100 legged friend.
Please see the post on page 7 of this topic:-

Feel free to release it, even here, it doesn't matter.
As long as this contributes to make things evolve and go further.

Regards,
TB

I'd asked him in a previous post if it was okay to post any mod/update on this thread too, as I didn't want to hijack it as you said - and he replied with the above statement. It got overwritten by an update regarding the AiDispersionCoef not having any effect so it's easy to miss.

Hope this clears things up - several of us are working towards this goal and posting our results here, please feel free to contribute.

Regards,

-- Archangel

Mr_Centipede

Jul 13 2009, 02:22

Archangel;1361155']Ahh, yes my 100 legged friend.
Please see the post on page 7 of this topic:-

I'd asked him in a previous post if it was okay to post any mod/update on this thread too, as I didn't want to hijack it as you said - and he replied with the above statement. It got overwritten by an update regarding the AiDispersionCoef not having any effect so it's easy to miss.

Hope this clears things up - several of us are working towards this goal and posting our results here, please feel free to contribute.

Regards,

-- Archangel

Roger that. Sorry for not reading the whole post.

KaBoNG

Jul 13 2009, 04:41

Archangel;1360951']Hi all,

This is the first beta of the weapons pack I'm trying to port over to Arma2, this version just contains a config that tweaks the dispersion of the AI units to help prevent the 'Robocop' syndrome that many players were experiencing.

<snipped>

You can find the file here. (http://rapidshare.com/files/255119011/sen_weapons.rar.html)

The Rapidshare link only allows 10 downloads and is now exceeded. Can you repost somewhere else?

spangg

Jul 13 2009, 11:36

Hi, I confirm that rapidshare has reached it's limit of downloading. Can somebody upload it somewhere again please?
Thanks

dreamweaver

Jul 13 2009, 13:38

Yes, please a new upload.

OrdeaL

Jul 13 2009, 16:07

please!!! lol

Darkmage

Jul 13 2009, 16:13

Or someone who has already downloaded it can they re-upload? :P

[SEN]Archangel

Jul 13 2009, 17:20

Hi folks,

You can also grab the file from here. (http://www.avmg30.dsl.pipex.com/sen_weapons.rar)

Enjoy :)

-- Archangel

spangg

Jul 13 2009, 17:37

:) thx

LilRoller

Jul 14 2009, 15:18

ArmaII being my first game in the series I have to ask this slightly noobish question. ;)

But just to make things clear, in the readme it says that I should drop those 2 files to Addons folder. Does it mean that actual Addons folder in the arma install dir, or should I create @<hidden>/addons folder?

Thanks in advance. :)

ps. I'm talking about Archangel's mod of course.

Mr_Centipede

Jul 14 2009, 15:22

create @<hidden>/addons folder... never disturb the official addons folder. to be exactly, never disturb with official files and folders.

LilRoller

Jul 14 2009, 15:43

Okie, thanks mate: :)

But that key file goes to official Keys folder, right?

Mr_Centipede

Jul 14 2009, 15:48

the keys are for server i think... for those that run dedicated server, they use those. i never bothered with it. so cant really say

LilRoller

Jul 14 2009, 16:01

Yeah It's for online stuff, so it's not important for me for now. But would be nice know the right place for the future as I'm sure I'll start to play online at some point.

But thanks heaps for your help Mr_Centipede. :)

[SEN]Shaitan

Jul 14 2009, 18:22

correct indeed. we were all given the key file to put in our keys dir for online and lan play, afaik it should not affect single player at all. you can put the addons in a mod folder or the normal addons folder at your own risk, they will work just as well regardless, but mod folders are recommended as they are easier to manage because some addons may conflict with others especially at beta stage, plus its easier to take out or change them if you are that way inclined.

Dan86

Jul 14 2009, 19:14

Is this gonna also affect AI on dedi server, will work for clients when I put it in server addons? or evey one client need that addon?

gamur

Jul 14 2009, 20:57

Download:sen_weapons.rar (http://www.arma2.bazarhudebnin.cz/downloads/addony/zbrane/sen_weapons.rar)
Download:rapidshare.com sen_weapons.rar (http://www.rapidshare.com/files/255857880/sen_weapons.rar)

[SEN]Archangel

Jul 14 2009, 21:04

Hi Dan,

Yes this affects the AI on a dedicated server and from what I've seen everyone that joins needs the file too as it wouldn't let one of our own squad join when he accidentaly put the addon in the wrong folder, so I'm assuming that should be the case with everyone else - but keep us posted if you find otherwise.

Regards,

-- Archangel

jch5pilot

Jul 14 2009, 21:20

Hello,

I havn't read through every page of this thread, but instead of having to download these mods etc, wouldn't it be easier for people to just open their profile with notepad (located in My Documents > ArmA 2) and change the AI precision values for the difficulty modes they use?

I use the following figures and I am very happy with the results:

skillFriendly=1;
skillEnemy=1;
precisionFriendly=0.5;
precisionEnemy=0.5;

EDIT: Taken some time to read a few more pages and have seen similar questions with answers so feel free to ignor this post.

James

NilHades

Jul 16 2009, 21:51

Hi!

Does the Sentinel Weapons mod work with VopSound? I tried it, but i really don't see if it works. I'm only 2 days playing lol

Thanks, guys!

[SEN]Archangel

Jul 16 2009, 22:36

Hi!

Does the Sentinel Weapons mod work with VopSound? I tried it, but i really don't see if it works. I'm only 2 days playing lol

Thanks, guys!

Hi NilHades,

I've not actually tested this with any soundmods yet, I've just used the default sounds on it so far. With ArmA1 you could set the priority of the mod loaded by moving it further to the end of the shortcut line .i.e. as in the example below

Guys,
<Snipped>
I understand that the order in which these is loaded is important. The biki topic says that the highest priority is last in the shortcut line, so what's the best order here?
-mod=dbe1;@<hidden>;@<hidden>;@<hidden>
Is that the way?
Thanks in advance,

Tanky

I'm assuming this is still the case with ArmA2, so for ours it might be worth typing in:
-mod=@<hidden>;@<hidden>

Or whatever your chosen names for the mod folders are.

The vopsound mod doesn't change the dispersion values as far as I am aware so they should be compatible in that order.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

-- Archangel

alphawolf29

Jul 17 2009, 06:11

Just confirmed it; Not compaitable. AI doesent fire....at all... whatsoever. (this is with VOPsound)

NilHades

Jul 17 2009, 09:21

Thanks for the answer, Archangel!

What a pity that they aren't compatible...

Well, I think I'll play with your mod instead the VopSound for now :)

flake

Jul 17 2009, 10:58

you should make your own thread for this so we can see updates in the first post

[SEN]Archangel

Jul 17 2009, 16:29

Hi Flake,

This mod is really just sitting on the back-burner at the moment so that I can concentrate on some actual units I'm working on, it was only really meant as an experiment and contribution to what the others at the beginning of the thread were working towards.

As such, if anyone wishes - they may open the sen_weapons config file and then copy and paste the different fire modes along with the tweaked dispersion values onto their own mods - even the Vopsound one if they have permission to do so.

Ultimately I'm hoping that someone like Thunderbird or one of the more mainstream mod teams can make use of our findings (using it as a source) then add and improve upon it to their own work in future, that way it will end up being part of something greater in the long run.

If that never happens then eventually we'll probably do it ourselves and release it to the public, probably along with custom weapon models, sounds and scripts 'etc', but right now it's not our highest priority.

In the meantime I'll quite gladly offer any assistance or advice for anyone wishing to add these features to their own addons.

Regards,

-- Archangel.

MadRussian

Sep 27 2009, 04:30

First off, I did a fair amount of dispersion work in Arma1, that I'm thinking about porting over to ArmA2 (including the new A2 weapons, of course) for release. Couple of quick questions, in case anyone knows out of the blue:

1. As most of us are aware, when the config dispersion value for a given weapon increases, the projectiles become more disperse. (i.e. less acurate). However, does anyone know what this number actually means? From my testing in Arma1, using a weapon dispersion value of zero yields absoutely NO dispersion, as expected. But, for instance, what does a weapon dispersion value of 0.5 really mean? Also, anyone know if projectile speed is already "baked" into this dispersion number? This info is integral due to the nature of my dynamic dispersion mod.

2. As an initial step in testing the question above, in Arma2 I created a modified M16A4 giving it the following config values:

class M16A4_MOD : m16a4 {
displayName = "BUBGUN";
dispersion = 0.5;
descriptionShort = "BUBGUN";
};

My hope was that the new gun would fire at a max of a 45 degree angle out of the barrel for a quick explanation. To my surprise however, as the player I fired several rounds and there was no noticable dispersion to speak of. Based on what I remember from Arma1, this dispersion value would affect both player and AI alike, with aiDispersionCoefX and aiDispersionCoefY affecting only the AI.

Question is, does this dispersion value somehow not affect the player in Arma2?

And if so, how then in Arma2 do we affect dispersion in player fired weapons?

Q1184

Sep 27 2009, 10:51

MadRussian
Dispersion is diameter of the dispersion circle in radians. So 'dispersion = 0.001' means 1 miliradian or 1 mil, which is 10 cm at 100 m. When prone, your dispersion becomes twice lower than the config value (at least it did in Arma, so needs confirmation). So the prone dispersion might be considered the true weapon's dispersion, while the standing/crouching one has a 'human factor' built into it.
As far as your experiment with dispersion = 0.5, it's probably capped in the engine to a sensible level.

MadRussian

Sep 27 2009, 15:42

I just ran a quick test and lobbed about 100 grenades from a moddified M203 launcher (with dispersion set to 0.05). Based on your info, I set up a target exactly 100m away and placed two cones exactly 5m apart staggering the target. While standing, I carefully lobed all those grenades directly at the target, and indeed they all passed inside the zone, and some right up against the imaginary "field goal posts" (i.e. directly up from the cones).

In short, everything worked like a charm. Thank you so much Q1184 for finally cracking this mystery for me! My dynamic dispersion mod just got simplified many fold. :)

@<hidden>
Another quick question. Q1184 also mentioned different stances treating dispersion at modified amounts. Anyone know where this is defined in the config?

MarkB

Oct 7 2009, 13:53

"The Army wanted a rifle that would significantly improve the average soldier's ability to hit the target under battlefield conditions, or at least to double the number of hits per trigger pull. With the M16A2 the probability of a battlefield hit is 20 percent at 100 meters, 10 percent at 300 meters, and 5 percent at 600 meters."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/acr.htm

The ai, and indeed the player too, seem to be rifle range accurate under battle stress conditions leading to the brutally short firefights we see in arma. The ai accuracy can be fudged somewhat, but how to stop the player then being the lazer accurate robocop without making it annoying isn't an easy problem.