HDR and Bloom are completely out of control!

[The.Yield]

AMD Phenom II 940 @<hidden> 3.6
8GB DDR2 1066
ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe (790FX Chipset)
Twin ATI 4870 1GB in Xfire

Let me just start by saying that I DO like the motion blur. I personally think it is well done and it compensates nicely during FPS drops. Heck, I even like the "haze" effect that can be seen after running 50 yards+ for a few seconds then goes away as you catch your breath.

Now, the HDR lighting and Bloom effects are just... insane. I swear sometimes it feels as though I am playing the game as a newborn puppy that has been drugged up on hallucinogenic mushrooms! Crazy extremes of shifting light and blasting pangs of bloom fill the sky as though I am being abducted by aliens!

I'll be looking one direction and it's a beautiful day around 5pm. Then I turn to face the setting sun (putting the sun just above my viewpoint) and suddenly it looks as though it's 9pm!

Walking through a forest during a bright sunny day is an experience not dissimilar to punching yourself in the eyes over and over at random intervals (I'd imagine).

I seems like 75% of the time (or better) the HDR and bloom isn't that offensive. But when it gets bad, it gets REALLY bad. Don't even get me started on night time!

*Gets himself started*

First off, night time is PITCH BLACK most of the time in Arma II. Needless to say this is illogical. I can recall countless situations where the grass, trees, bushes, etc were simply devoid of any light - But I could clearly make out a wooden fence in the distance (seemingly illuminated by star/moon light, as it should be!). Keeping in mind that this was a clear night (all the stars and the moon clearly visible).

Here's a news flash: The moon light that illuminated that fence should be lighting up... ready for it? ... THE ENTIRE GAME WORLD. Last time I checked the grass in Russia does not absorb the visible light spectrum!

And I won't even get myself started on how awful night vision can be sometimes.

/rant

There sincerely needs to be a way to tone down HDR and Bloom without completely loosing them (or motion blur) in the process.

Thoughts?

[zild1221]

This man here speaks the truth.

[FraG_AU]

Yes, definately need tweaking! Looking at any white object during the day is painfull.. Looks like "Oblivion" magical items on the ground..

Have you tried to run with the Noblur-NoHDR mod?

[zild1221]

Too bad the motion blur is good.

[The.Yield]

I've tried that mod and it does help nix the bloom. But I don't want bloom gone I just want it toned done like... 80 or 90% lol

And the blur goes as well which is unfortunate with that mod.

[dutzulica2005]

Thread starter hit the nail right on the head. I actually can't figure out what the hell they were trying to simulate with all this HDR lighting in both ArmA games. It's like those game designers that put this effect in haven't been outside in decades. It's totally unrealistic. Only place I see this happen is on my digital camera while the sensor adapts it's self to changing light conditions. Totally absurd, unrealistic and a gameplay killer.
If there were two things I hated in ArmA 1 and didn't want to see in 2, it was the way vision works in this way and how the AI could cheat. I mean I'm not bothered much by some blur or bloom and the matte painting effect it gives some times, just the disco effect. They should have at least put an off setting for it or something. Maybe in a future patch, although they might not know how so I doubt it. Too bad :( .

[PaiNxGS]

Yeah, I totally agree about the HDR effect thing. It doesn't really make any sense as I have been out in the sun and never had that wierd effect happen to me. There should be an option to just turn it off or they should rethink the whole idea that were trying to achieve with this setting.

[The.Yield]

Here is a screen shot during a thunderstorm.

[IM]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/WaTTz/InsaneBloom.jpg?t=1244604864[/IMG]>100kb

Now, I've seen many a thunderstorm in my day... And I've never quite seen this crazy "here commeth the apocalypse" bright sky effect, lol.

[[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-]

I think your image needs to be less than 100kb



Walking through a forest during a bright sunny day is an experience not dissimilar to punching yourself in the eyes over and over at random intervals (I'd imagine).


that is some funny shit right there :rofl:

have you tried Kegetys no blur/bloom? try it and report back either way.


Here (http://junk.kegetys.net/noblur.zip) :) It allows disabling the motion blurs and optionally the "bloom" as well. Disabling the motion blur effect seems to increase the fps as well, an official fix would propably increase it a bit more since this one just replaces the PS effect with a direct copy "effect".

[shadowze]

LOL

You are spot on with your obervations

And its a funny way to put it

[Alienfreak]

One major problem is also the adaption of your sight to brightness.


Yesterday we played the UMPC Teufelsburg (or whatever it was called) map. I was and from my base direction up the hill there was the sun visible in the sky.
Everything was freaking DARK. I mean dark like it was night or something. Once you turned around everything was perfectly bright and lit. But as soon as you only saw the sky AROUND the sun (sun blocked by objects) it was just impossible to make out wether the guy in front of you is US or russian.

It is ok if I get a bit blind once I almost directly look INTO the sun (it is near my center of vision then) but not once it only PARTLY visible on my screen because it is on an edge.

That might be like an camera works. But lucky us, we have eyes, not cameras.
This was already bad in ArmA. But in ArmA2 it is unbearable.

[Sha4lo]

i can`t get how to switch off the bloom and dynamic blur.
HDR is good, i like it. But i hate blur and bloom in each games! It`s horrible to turn around with such spreading of image. Its very hard to concentrate.

[Dreepa]

The opening post speaks the truth

[Kegetys]

I think one possible fix for the HDR exposure going into nonsense values* could be to limit the amount the aperture is allowed to go up/down based on the current amount of light from the the sun/moon. In the game there really never is any other light levels than either being lit, or being in the shadows, so there should always be well defined limits to how high/low the aperture needs to go in order to be able to see everything. Currently (it seems) the HDR aperture automation only considers what is currently on the screen no matter what the actual environment lighting conditions are and because of this it often goes completely wrong. A special case would be when neither the sun or the moon is up, but there no limits would maybe be ok.

* Refers to the HDR wildly cycling between excess darkness and excess lightness, often seen when walking in a forest for example. Sometimes the bright sky makes everything on the ground appear almost pitch black, and when you look down then the exposure adjusts to everything being much too bright. Like in this example:

http://junk.kegetys.net/hdr.jpg
In this case for example the HDR automation should take into account the amount of light coming from the sun and not let the aperture go into these extreme values.

[Alienfreak]

Kegetys:

These pictures perfectly show what I meant :)

You can barely see that there is even SOMEONE 5 meters in front of you. Not to mention being unable to tell what it is.

And everything just because the sky is visible O_o.


This is just BS. Cmon BIS change it for good :). When Im in a wood I can see whats in front of me. Even with the sky visible.

[Dwarden]

Kegetys , very nicely said and worthy examples ... hopefully it will be adjusted / fixed

[Leopardi]

Kegetys , very nicely said and worthy examples ... hopefully it will be adjusted / fixed

Knowing BIS - never. Maybe it's something too hard to fix.

[Sha4lo]

Who knows how to switch off HDR, bloom and blur????

[dutzulica2005]

Knowing BIS - never. Maybe it's something too hard to fix.

If we think about the fact that this was a problem in the first ArmA and not only did they not fix it then, but they included it in this game also without an off switch... then we're only left with one of two conclusions: they either dont give a [censored], or they really have no ideea what problems ppl have with this game and all the "give us your input/feedback/ideeas for making the game" was a bunch of BS... from BIS. :confused:

[Dreepa]

If we think about the fact that this was a problem in the first ArmA and not only did they not fix it then, but they included it in this game also without an off switch... then we're only left with one of two conclusions: they either dont give a [censored], or they really have no ideea what problems ppl have with this game and all the "give us your input/feedback/ideeas for making the game" was a bunch of BS... from BIS. :confused:


Or its enormous effort to fiddle with that stuff in the code and no one wants to touch it :P

[Binkowski]

There was a mod for ArmA1 to disable HDR. Maybe it will make a comeback in ArmA2, until then I believe that modifying your ArmA2.cfg file and turning the setting of "HDR=0" will disable it. Downloading Kegety's No Bloom/Blur mod also helps.

[ryan80]

does the HDRPrecision setting in arma2.cfg do anything
mine is at HDRPrecision=8

[dvolk]

[IG]http://junk.kegetys.net/hdr.jpg[/IMG]

I don't think I've ever had it that bright. Only once did some people glow inside a helicopter, but since I've upgraded my drivers and installed the 1.01 patch it's gone away.

[Balgorg]

are you all using ATI or Nvidia? The first post was using ATI. Some of the other threads elsewhere seem to think that ATI drivers r a problem, whereas Nvidia cards were used by the dev team.

[dutzulica2005]

I modified that cfg file but it didn't do anything at all, and when I reopened it after playing, it was changed back to original value. I played the game on nvidia 8600gt and on ati 4850 and HDR looked the same.. couldn't notice any difference. And why do people keep mentioning the no bloom addon? The changing light is being caused by the HDR lighting and not the others.

[Sniper Pilot]

Try making those files "Read Only" then they shouldn't change.

[dutzulica2005]

Value stayed the same but had no effect ingame... would have been way too easy fix heh. Oh well, only hope that maybe someone would do a similar fix like for ArmA 1. Still gonna play it like this though :).

[diveplane]

this all should be enable disable in graphics options

bloom effects etc.

also the sunlight effect on your eyes should be able to disable this.

[ryan80]

bloom is really overdone in the game. they need to tone it down a little.

[cm]

Agreed.

I also HATE the white "haze" that forms through trees and stuff.

I love your game BIS, but please tone down the HDR.

[kklownboy]

The opening post speaks the truth" HDR and Bloom are completely out of control!" RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!
He doesnt say what his settings are or his Res. The bloom is fine, its bloom.

[The.Yield]

" HDR and Bloom are completely out of control!" RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!
He doesnt say what his settings are or his Res. The bloom is fine, its bloom.

1920x1200, everything max'd out.

[Maruk]

The original poster probably wanted to raise issue with Crossfire where HDR sometimes causes major flickering (related to the nature of ArmA 2 engine and Crosfire). That problem seems to be reduced in Catalyst 9.6 or it is possible to overcome it by runing the game without Crossfire (which reduces maximum dual-GPU fillrate performance).

* anyway, bloom can be reduced by lowering brightness in your Video options to 0.9 or 0.8 (and you may compensate by slightly increasing gamma to 1.1 or 1.2).

* in ArmA 2 version 1.02, it will be possible to disable various post effects including bloom.

* the idea of disabling HDR simply doesn't work: in case of ArmA and ArmA 2, HDR is in the heart of the entire lighting model so disabling it means basically black screen. The whole mechanism has two parts: simulation of light and aperture control. Some tweaks to the light values when sun is near horizon are implemented in the upcoming version 1.02 and we may improve aperture control further in future revision as well

[Jackdaniels]

Maruk - I use a single Geforce 260 GTX and have the same problems as the poster. Go back a couple of pages and look at the 2 photo's that display the problem. Now please, how you are suppose to play a game with a problem like that? I really hope this can be fixed or it really is going to ruin a promising game.

[Demiun]

* the idea of disabling HDR simply doesn't work: in case of ArmA and ArmA 2, HDR is in the heart of the entire lighting model so disabling it means basically black screen. The whole mechanism has two parts: simulation of light and aperture control. Some tweaks to the light values when sun is near horizon are implemented in the upcoming version 1.02 and we may improve aperture control further in future revision as well

Such a shame, I hate the HDR effect, it generally eats a lot of ressources for something that doesn't bring any graphical improvements and is just unrealistic and a visual annoyance IMO. Well okay, when I'm taking my lunch outside in full 12:00 summer sunlight and I look at a very shadowy place in my garden, it looks a bit darker than when I penetrate this place, but in ArmA II it's so much exagerated !
If you can't let us disable HDR, would it be at least possible to give us some control on it ? Would it be possible to reduce the lighting variations to an unnoticable minimum ?

[AUS_Twisted]

* in ArmA 2 version 1.02, it will be possible to disable various post effects including bloom.
Thats good, will it be possible to adjust how strong the bloom effect is on a slider?



* the idea of disabling HDR simply doesn't work: in case of ArmA and ArmA 2, HDR is in the heart of the entire lighting model so disabling it means basically black screen. The whole mechanism has two parts: simulation of light and aperture control. Some tweaks to the light values when sun is near horizon are implemented in the upcoming version 1.02 and we may improve aperture control further in future revision as well

Like Kegety's already posted, I think lowering how much the aperture values automatically change would help a lot in situations like that. At the moment like ArmA1 the aperture can change to extreme values (to bright or to dark) to me it's like using a camera that has poor light detection resulting in either over or underexposed photos

[HeinBloed]

the idea of disabling HDR simply doesn't work: in case of ArmA and ArmA 2, HDR is in the heart of the entire lighting model so disabling it means basically black screen. The whole mechanism has two parts: simulation of light and aperture control. Some tweaks to the light values when sun is near horizon are implemented in the upcoming version 1.02 and we may improve aperture control further in future revision as well

I have,
- played ArmA with a Geforce 7800 and a Geforce 8800.
- played ArmA2 with a Geforce 8800.
- bought a ATI 4890 for ArmA2.

From the release day of Arma until now i, and everyone i know, have a problem with the ArmA and ArmA2 HDR (someone more someone less, but nowbody likes it).

On my system there is no difference between ATI and Geforce or between an older and the newest driver.

Here are two videos showing the worst case.

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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6I5yQDH3DoA&hl=de&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6I5yQDH3DoA&hl=de&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



It does not need the worst case to stop the game due to unplayable conditions. For me there is no way to play this game at dusk and dawn, and on some situations on night.

As you can see at the night video the problem is not caused by the lights. It is caused by the headlight texture. It looks like the .rvmat or the way the .rvmat will be processed makes this excesses.

[Wiggum]

* in ArmA 2 version 1.02, it will be possible to disable various post effects including bloom.


Nice, then i dont need The NoBloom Addon any longer. :D
But must i delete the two folders that come with the NoBlur Addon to install 1.02 ?

[Alienfreak]

Just dont use the nobloom mod in your link? O_o

[Razorman]

Nice, then i dont need The NoBloom Addon any longer. :D
But must i delete the two folders that come with the NoBlur Addon to install 1.02 ?

I would.

[kklownboy]

A...
Twin ATI 4870 1GB in Xfire

...

Thoughts? i fixed it with a rename, well sofar as much as i have played the game. Using a Crysis.exe rename of your arma2.exe the HDR, the flashing to dark ect is greatly reduced, like not really there :) .There is still the classic strobe but it settles down real fast after you start something, and after that its way better than arma2.exe... So -winxp + Crysis.exe FTW. 4870x2's in CFX/Quadfire, great fps and now less migraines. will try a few others, farcry2 Fear2 ect...

[Dumile]

i fixed it with a rename, well sofar as much as i have played the game. Using a Crysis.exe rename of your arma2.exe the HDR, the flashing to dark ect is greatly reduced, like not really there :) .There is still the classic strobe but it settles down real fast after you start something, and after that its way better than arma2.exe... So -winxp + Crysis.exe FTW. 4870x2's in CFX/Quadfire, great fps and now less migraines. will try a few others, farcry2 Fear2 ect...

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Norsu]

* the idea of disabling HDR simply doesn't work: in case of ArmA and ArmA 2, HDR is in the heart of the entire lighting model so disabling it means basically black screen. The whole mechanism has two parts: simulation of light and aperture control. Some tweaks to the light values when sun is near horizon are implemented in the upcoming version 1.02 and we may improve aperture control further in future revision as well

I've been trying out the setAperture setting in editor and one can use that to reduce the excessive HDR in user missions. Sad thing is that it's very much dependant on time of the day and weather so you can't use one value for all missions.

BIS could revamp the aperture control but that would require rewriting a grand portion of the terrain configs I believe, not to mention testing. But then again it would certainly be worth it ;).



To Dumile:

Graphics card drivers have different settings for different games. Currently they are lacking proper ArmA2 support but you can rename arma2.exe to crysis.exe and enable whatever optimizations there are for Crysis thus making them available in ArmA2 too :).

[Kenjineering]

Hopefully someone has posted this in the suggestions Forum.

But I absolutely love having bleeding eyes!

[Snowwhite]

I would like to see all the PP effects go except the DOF with scopes and binoculars.

Bloom and blur makes it look like an arcade game (Crysis) and DOF is ok but too near.

I don't know why you guys think the blur is realistic, it only brings headaches. If your sight blurs and wobbles (I also adjusted this a few notches down) like that you are either drunk or disabled.

Later ;)

[TechnoTerrorist303]

or tripping

[vilas]

yes, i saw Arma2 at my friends PC, HDR makes it not fun to play :(
i thought only Arma1 had HDR problems and A2 will be free of HDR problem
my friend has PC as mine - VGA 8800
like on Youtube video shown pages before
all dark for few seconds after looking at light
shame HDR cannot be disabled in game

[.kju [PvPscene]]

GDT HDR addon helps a lot.

[RedruM-X]

I have,
- played ArmA with a Geforce 7800 and a Geforce 8800.
- played ArmA2 with a Geforce 8800.
- bought a ATI 4890 for ArmA2.

From the release day of Arma until now i, and everyone i know, have a problem with the ArmA and ArmA2 HDR (someone more someone less, but nowbody likes it).

On my system there is no difference between ATI and Geforce or between an older and the newest driver.

Here are two videos showing the worst case.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9zXJvYLOGWo&hl=de&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9zXJvYLOGWo&hl=de&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6I5yQDH3DoA&hl=de&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6I5yQDH3DoA&hl=de&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



It does not need the worst case to stop the game due to unplayable conditions. For me there is no way to play this game at dusk and dawn, and on some situations on night.

As you can see at the night video the problem is not caused by the lights. It is caused by the headlight texture. It looks like the .rvmat or the way the .rvmat will be processed makes this excesses.


I still have this exact problem with 1.03.
Dusk or dawn, totally non playable.
Didn't they test play it or what ... or do they really think this happens in real life or something ... ?!!!

Hate it.
When I get on a map at those hours, I just want to quit asap.

Wish there was a solution

[nyran125]

dude turn your post proccessing down to low or OFF. It fixes most of that stuff:):)
I love the light dipping like that, just turn some of that light stuff down.

[.kju [PvPscene]]

@<hidden>

Always change ingame brightness according to the daytime.

[RedruM-X]

dude turn your post proccessing down to low or OFF. It fixes most of that stuff:):)
I love the light dipping like that, just turn some of that light stuff down.

Dude like I don't know about the post-processing, it is DISABLED/OFF.

The problem stays EXACTLY the same ! Nothing has changed about it, if you'd know something about it, then you'd also now that this is HDR problem, post-processing only does blur and bloom.

So dream on.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------


@<hidden>

Always change ingame brightness according to the daytime.

This is a better suggestion, but problem stays the same as you can clearly see in the videos, because if I'd turn up the brightness, then yes, when getting those dark moments, it would help, but when you look away from the sun then everything will be OVERbrightened, so no, not a solution.

It is a HDR problem/bug, simple as that.

[.kju [PvPscene]]

Yep it is. Yet as long as there is no BI fix, thats the best we can do.
Make a ticket in the A2 CIT and get people to vote it.
That is the best way to get BI look into it IMO.

[oktane]

VOTE to have your issues addressed!: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/3718

[Mistokus]

Has anyone figured this out? I noticed the same thing in Bad Company 2.. if I look at the sky, it makes everything too dark. I can turn up the brightness, which still messes things up.

[CFS_EAGLE_03]

I'm guessing there still isn't a fix? Yes, turning Post Processing Affects or whatever off, helps a couple issues, but not the horrendous lighting. Bohemia International CAN'T feel this looks realistic to the human eye & I know nobody who's actually in the military would either. (all it does is make their games look more console/toy-like) I was impressed to see a BIS official/Maruk post here, though not surprised to see his basically telling us to go sh!t in our hats. :mad: This definitely marks my last purchase from such an oblivious, uncaring & unconnected company.. (at least until I hear they've quit inflicting their products with such a horrible graphic "feature") and I'll be sure to spread the word. I mean, every other game I've played with it, has the ability to at least adjust it, if not turn it off. It seems to be ruining many Bohemia games that otherwise show great potential.

EDIT - I PM'd this to Maruk as well, since he never re-addressed the thread

[MavericK96]

Kind of a thread necro but I agree, HDR is still way overblown. You look at the ground and then look up and everything is like blindingly bright.

[.kju [PvPscene]]

You can use the GDT HDR addon to tweak it on the fly to acceptable levels.

[NeuroFunker]

i'm also pretty unhappy with HDR ingame. Even in cloudy weather, when theres no sun, if you look down at the grass, everything gets awful bright, like i'm in the middle of the dessert or something. But in sunny weather, actualy there could be more brightness from the sun, especially at Takistan, but it gets toned down, if your looking straight forward. Not moaning here, but i wish BIS would tweak it abit too. I could provide screenshots about awful brightness in cloudy weather, with day time, weather setting etc.

[-=seany=-]

While Mr. Eagles post is a tad extreme... I am also still frequently annoyed by the over powering bloom affect. I like these kind of effects, but it has always been so over done since it was added to Arma. The devs answer is always "next Gen"...why? They are just a few number values that can be tweaked. Remember ENB series?

Can't we just be given some control over bloom and HDR in the config or something? I don't want to turn it off, and using a third party mod inst really a solution. AFAIK they would have to be allowed by game servers etc?

I know the BIS devs do a lot for us that other devs do not. But one thing I have seen many other devs do, shortly after a games release (DCS, ROF), is tweak the Bloom and HDR etc to satisfy the users.
As far as I can tell BIS have never adjusted Bloom amount, power, exposure speed etc at all. They did add Movie effect filter modules to the editor, but they actually make the problem much worse in my experience.

All I can guess is that it perfectly fits some one at BI studios' artistic vision and they have no intention of changing it. That's what it seems like after THREE YEARs!!

[metalcraze]

The more bloom - the more next-gen it is, bro.

[-=seany=-]

what?

[NeuroFunker]

it's not bloom we are talking about. Setting postprocess to very low, turns bloom completly off, but awful overbrighting still stays

[MavericK96]

Yeah, I use Very Low PP but the HDR is still there. I have no problem with HDR in general but it's way overdone in OA.

[Max Power]

CFS_EAGLE_03

Welcome to the forums.

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