A.C.E. Advanced Combat Environment Mod 2

[scubaman3D]

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4104/m4custom.jpg

Custom M4 with BUIS, Pmag, and KAC teardrop trigger guard.

[sparks50]

Finally a proper replacement for the bradley! Looks fantastic!

[Das Attorney]

Really good work - looking very professional and encouraging teamwork with the spotter sniper combo!

[Steakslim]

Really good work - looking very professional and encouraging teamwork with the spotter sniper combo!

Very much this indeed. Before in ArmA1, the spotter had to use the laser marker.

[Xtreme1989]

I love this community :cool:

[Kristian]

Holy Dogsh*t! The 5th video showing bradleys and strykers... Are we going to have those strykers in desert camo aswell?

[Cole]

I love how you guys try to keep a certain level of model quality in ACE2. Everything looks very very good. :)

(Not trying to bash anyone, I just think that the first ACE was quite mixed up when it came to model quality. Some were extremely high quality, some were ... not so high quality.)

[ArmaVidz]

Hey fellas long time. Been out of contact for a long time. Any plans on improving the stock disembark animations / visuals?

[Inkompetent]

Om, nom, nom! Lovely vid! And a good view on the new Bradley to boot! :3

[Uglyboy]

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4104/m4custom.jpg

Custom M4 with BUIS, Pmag, and KAC teardrop trigger guard.

Such pics should be rated 18+ only... :nono:

:D

[Sky_Line]

Wow, that's awesome! Thank you guys! You're making the hell of a game out of the ArmA2!:)

[Red_Barron]

I have to commend your approach to these videos gentlemen. I really appreciate that you have chosen to not use music or other external audio not related to the game. This makes the videos more professional. Excellent job.

[TheDudeAbides]

The Bradley is missing something on the turret. The busel rack.

[AnimalMother92]

sorry for asking if this has been explained before. I've heard there will be an ACE and an ACE-X, is there a version that is JUST the equipment and vehicles and not the gameplay tweaks? For instance, if someone (me) wanted to use the Strykers and Bradleys but didn't want the range finding, fatigue, lack of crosshairs etc

Thanks! Those models are really nice.

[PuFu]

ACE-X (which will contain all the additional models, weapons yada yada), is dependent on ACE.
So while you will be able to use all the main features without needing to download all the model-related content, you will NOT be able to use those without having ACE

[scubaman3D]

Such pics should be rated 18+ only... :nono:

:)

This is the "base" weapon. From this, I'll make other variants per function:

M4/M203/Eotech (grenadier)
M4/Shortdot ("marksman" weapon)
M4/Aimpoint micro (CQB)
Perhaps a suppressed version or two

[b00ce]

I'm diggin' those Strykers. DO. WANT.

[bobcurtish]

Hi guys

Very great job.

Just a question do you plan to make an AIR FCS like in ACE1?

It was (for me) a very significant upgrade.

No more radar in chopper and planes you just have to search, identify and then try to destroy the Target.

It could be very interesting to create a kind of targeting system in planes. Like a laser designator that you will be able to use in the sight view. This laser designator could move on 360° and could be (If possible) FLIR capable.

Best regards.


Best regards

[alef]

I have to commend your approach to these videos gentlemen. I really appreciate that you have chosen to not use music or other external audio not related to the game. This makes the videos more professional. Excellent job.

It remembers me the style of the firsts BI ArmA2 preview videos, like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFa7bjEMSAc).

[Uglyboy]

:)

This is the "base" weapon. From this, I'll make other variants per function:

M4/M203/Eotech (grenadier)
M4/Shortdot ("marksman" weapon)
M4/Aimpoint micro (CQB)
Perhaps a suppressed version or two

Amazing, so we get this beauty insted of Scars pack ( for now ) fair deal :p


Just a question do you plan to make an AIR FCS like in ACE1?

Probably ( hope ) we will get Mando's A2 stuff, hopefully a bit more polished than in ACE1, there was a lot of menu clutter there, but seriously a huge improvement :yay:

[Kolt]

stoked

[scubaman3D]

Amazing, so we get this beauty insted of Scars pack ( for now )

This will replace the SCAR L and I'm planning on a complete revamp of the KAC SR25K to replace the SCAR H. In addition, Panda has begun work on overhauling the HK series weapons.

We just ask for patience, since all of this work will take time and not everything will make it into the initial release. ;)

[bhaz]

Wow, I didn't even know custom interiors were possible, nice work.

[Steakslim]

This will replace the SCAR L and I'm planning on a complete revamp of the KAC SR25K to replace the SCAR H. In addition, Panda has begun work on overhauling the HK series weapons.

We just ask for patience, since all of this work will take time and not everything will make it into the initial release. ;)

All this is good news to me, though I do like the SCAR H/L, these trade offs are fine :D

edit: quick question, will the KAC M110 make a return to ACE? If I remember correctly it was in ACE1.

[scubaman3D]

All this is good news to me,

Well I'm glad. :)

Yes on the M110 (there are plans to improve it too).

More gun porn...just because I can.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7910/m4m203.jpg

[Uglyboy]

Don't worry just take the time that it needs, and even if those weapons will come in the 5th patch i'll be happy anyway:D


In addition, Panda has begun work on overhauling the HK series weapons.

That's interesting, he is working on the 416/417? Or you meant the MP5s? Either way whatever Panda puts on the table is always welcome:yay::D

EDIT: Just read the above post :yay:

[scubaman3D]

416/17

[Uglyboy]

Brilliant, i was a bit afraid of the 416 not make it in ACE 2 :yay: I don't mind if they don't come in the first release as i said, knowing that they are under work is enough for me :)
Good to know about the M110 either and what about 50 cal rifles? :D Any other surprise for us? :D

[scubaman3D]

also...wouldn't it be interesting if ACEX and Fromz's PLA could mate and produce an unstoppable mega offspring? :eek:

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1248/hinthint.jpg

[Uglyboy]

Seems like he listened to the 702 words PM i wrote him few weeks ago :rolleyes:
edit:These are great news :D i don't know if you remember the Pms i sent you a while ago but that's exactly what i hoped for :p

edit2: typo

[Pain0815]

I cant wait for the mod, thumbs up guys!!!!!!!!!!! :ok:

Its looking fantastic.

I have one question to you. I know ACE will have own sounds, is it possible to get a other soundmod (i wait for chammys) working with ace2 later?

Or is it not possible because of the new stuff you put into your mod (tons of new guns and vehicles)?

[Uglyboy]

It's possible to override the ACE sound ( at least was in ACE1 ) with another sound mod, the "new stuff" just retains its ACE sound

Edit: but it's almost 4 am here and i might be saying bullshit after all this gun porn :D

[Manzilla]

It's possible to override the ACE sound ( at least was in ACE1 ) with another sound mod, the "new stuff" just retains its ACE sound

Edit: but it's almost 4 am here and i might be saying bullshit after all this gun porn :D

Yes, you are correct.

Great pics guys and great news about fromz PLA stuff!

[Pain0815]

It's possible to override the ACE sound ( at least was in ACE1 ) with another sound mod, the "new stuff" just retains its ACE sound


Lets hope it, i mean the vehicle sounds are great but the firefight sounds are better in chammys mod(just my opinion) (i only saw the new chammys mod on youtube so i dont know exactly how it sounds, but i know his work in arma 1 and project reality)

[Hachiman]

Will A.C.E. mod 2 affect rig performance?

[Sif]

Firstly i'd like to say thanks for all the work you guys have added into ACE1. And now thanks even more for the work you are doing for ACE2, it's nearly gotten me into tears to see it's progress. While I can remember what I am posting here for I wanted to ask if a certain armored IFV will be re-added. The BMD-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMD-1) was possibly one of my favorite that you guys added for the Russians purely on the basis that it was awesome to drive. Hydraulic tank treads and the ability to air drop it gave me more reasons to mess about with it. I truly hope you bring back this lovely little IFV. That or try the newest brand the BMD-4 (http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmd_4.htm) which I just learned about.


Here's some images:


http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/inf/BMD-1/BMD-1.gif

http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmd1.jpg

http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/wiki/files/98/bmd-1_ifv.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bmd-1.jpg

[Inkompetent]

Will A.C.E. mod 2 affect rig performance?

Yes. It will mainly affect you by the amount of scripts being ran, and will probably cut a few FPS for you. But losing 3 fps is nothing compared to what ACE brings :)

[Ryujin]

Do you guys still have that green skin laying around for the strykers (I realized I don't have it)? It really should have been in the first time, but if you find it/make one, it probably would look a little cooler, especially with the green slat armor.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o62/Ryujin_bucket/arma2008-09-1415-35-39-98.jpg

Awesome Bradley by the way, that OFP1 Bradley was getting kind of dusty.

[Hachiman]

Yes. It will mainly affect you by the amount of scripts being ran, and will probably cut a few FPS for you. But losing 3 fps is nothing compared to what ACE brings :)

OK sounds like it will be well worth installing. I almost got an erection when I learned that A.C.E 2 will feature wind deflection.

[andersson]

It's possible to override the ACE sound ( at least was in ACE1 ) with another sound mod, the "new stuff" just retains its ACE sound

Edit: but it's almost 4 am here and i might be saying bullshit after all this gun porn :D


As a "configger" for MarkXIII's HiFi-NA I would love to see the "new stuff's" sounds from ACE2 in a separate pbo with their own config. But I guess that will not happen and I understand it fully.

It means that I have to find all soundinputs and make a config overriding all input. Its doable but takes some effort (worth it). I was 95% done for ACE1 but then arma2 was released + my RL took over so that project is no more (sorry).

I have also promised to help Chammy so if and when I have a working ACE2 config for MarkXII I will give it to Chammy to. That way you/we can choose what soundmod to use. It will also be modular so if anyone prefer the vehicles from one mod and the weapons from another its no problem.


Normally Im a little cautios to give promises like this. Easy to say but.. This time Im very sure though. MarkXIII will whip me (as always) and he is the only one actually succeding in pushing me and I also want the best ACE2 experience for myself.

[Sickboy]

Our sounds are in seperate pbos. There's no need for special override config for ACE2 (regarding default arma2 content).
Though it might be required to disable the sound override configs, by undefining the well known ACE_BIS_SOUND_OVERRIDE define.

Custom vehicles have custom sound pbos. Depending on the wishes / setup, these require special configs to override, obviously.

[MadDogX]

Didn't kju create that cool modular sound framework? I wouldn't be surprised if that was used in ACE2 :). If that's the case, it shouldn't be too hard to override some ACE2 sounds with a compatible sound mod.

EDIT: Or just listen to Sickboy. ;)

[sparks50]

also...wouldn't it be interesting if ACEX and Fromz's PLA could mate and produce an unstoppable mega offspring? :eek:

[IMG]http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1248/hinthint.jpg[/IG]

I cant believe nobody has reacted to this yet. I love the PLA mod.
I hope more mods will see the advantages to using ACE as a base. :)

[andersson]

Our sounds are in seperate pbos. There's no need for special override config for ACE2 (regarding default arma2 content).
Though it might be required to disable the sound override configs, by undefining the well known ACE_BIS_SOUND_OVERRIDE define.

Custom vehicles have custom sound pbos. Depending on the wishes / setup, these require special configs to override, obviously.

The soundfiles yes, but the code is still scattered around pbo's and that makes it more of a challenge for me. And yes, I am talking about the custom ACE content :)

But no worries. I understand that you, ACE, have other priorities than setting it up for soundmods. :)

[thearies]

great great great... will there be more actually used us-vehicles? like:

M2A3/M3A3 ERA

MaxxPro MPV

Cougar HE 6x6


do i see a new ballistik penetration system???

[Defunkt]

I cant believe nobody has reacted to this yet. I love the PLA mod.
I hope more mods will see the advantages to using ACE as a base. :)
If I could offer a contrary view, it's something of a mixed blessing to me, what was a kick-arse stand alone mod will (I'm forced to presume for now) only be available as part of ACE. So now if I want to use Fromz' awesome PLA units I have no choice but to accept along with it whatever features I might not particularly care for from ACE. It makes ACE the Microsoft of ArmA modding, assimilating anything that might be competitive and requiring (by virtue of a monopoly on quality content) everybody to play ArmA the ACE way (blackouts and all :omg:). This is assuming of course Fromz will no longer be offering his PLA units as a separate mod also, something I presently have no way of knowing just now, hence my own reserved judgement on the news.

[caprera]

Sorry guys but i have to ask, as i just saw the fifth video and the two new rus launchers in it and the Flanker as well.

Have you planned to insert some new rus stuff ? I mean basics, like infantry updated models & weapons ??

[Ebolax]

Here is the new vid showing some armour and stuff... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osb8HrMW8FE&hd=1)

On the Bradley vehicles, is it required to deploy the TOW launcher? Or is the launcher box always in the up position?

[Sickboy]

Except the process went reverse with PLA, where Fromz contacted us and specially wanted to get sucked up into ACE. You should be asking Fromz for the details though :)
I guess the result is the same, but we're certainly not hunting mods that are competitive, to add them to our collection of trophies or anything like that ;D

[Sir Fragalot]

ups sorry.... won't happen again

[Uglyboy]

Except the process went reverse with PLA, where Fromz contacted us and specially wanted to get sucked up into ACE.

Guess it's my fault for that :rolleyes:


If I could offer a contrary view, it's something of a mixed blessing to me, what was a kick-arse stand alone mod will (I'm forced to presume for now) only be available as part of ACE.

Nope, Fromz said to me that there will be a PLA release and a ACEX-PLA release, so this makes everyone happy :bounce3:

EDIT: good to see you sickboy, haven't read you in a while now :)

[PhilippRauch]

sorry wrong thread.. pls ignore.. (damnit)

[scubaman3D]

On the Bradley vehicles, is it required to deploy the TOW launcher?

Yes. The tow folds up and down and it must be up to arm the TOW

[Uglyboy]

Yes. The tow folds up and down and it must be up to arm the TOW

Awesome :) The always up tow in A1 was a bit strange indeed, :yay:

[Sickboy]

EDIT: good to see you sickboy, haven't read you in a while now :)Thanks :D
Decided to sacrifice a little publicity for some moar productivity :D
Been all over the place past months, and have made some exciting developments.

[Romeo_NL]

fantastic work on ACE2 guys,i was wonderening,anychance that there will be Anti-personel mines developed as well?,and what about the ability to booby trap weapons ect...

http://pl.b5z.net/i/u/6070324/i/V-69_mine.JPG

[Ebolax]

Yes. The tow folds up and down and it must be up to arm the TOW

Touche :D

[jhoson14]

Awesome about Fromz PLA, imagine a Russia versus China cenario :3

Would be awesome if ACE2 come out with CAA1 islands on the pack.

But i guess a lot of people would strat complaining about how big the files are :(

Any chance to a AK-107 with plain iron sights stead of Cobra?

[Cyclone-B]

Hi there! I have a sensitive issue, sore point to developers A.C.E 2:
Can you make a pancratic scope for sniper rifle? 1P59 and kind of this?
That is to say, so as to be really worked...
you can see some images here (http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/10/196896.html)

[NouberNou]

Been lurking in this thread for a while.... Awesome work as always.

One question, do you guys plan to implement a 6400 mils compass?

I have been evangelizing mils lately... :P

[becubed]

Sickboy,
any chance of putting the video's up as zip files for download somewhere?
My work blocks media files and dialup at home sucks for youtube. :icon_cry:
Thanks.

[sparks50]

Enter the youtube URL here:

http://keepvid.com/

[Smurf]

A question about the wounding system,I know is somehow broken but, medics will patch injuried soldiers to 100% Health?
Or some lower value so we HAVE to use Medevacs and behind lines support?

[USSRsniper]

Watched Arma 2: A.C.E. - A couple of features 5
Just a small suggestion for sound of Russian GL, it should sound more like a gunshot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4CAimBw-m4

[philnoptience]

Whats up with the Bradley no reactive armor??
If you look at the VBS 2 Bradley it is a perfect example of what it would look like in-game.

[Black1ron]

Whats up with the Bradley no reactive armor??
If you look at the VBS 2 Bradley it is a perfect example of what it would look like in-game.

Key thing in your post being VBS2, which is a few-thousand dollar program made for militaries, not for gamers. Of course everything in it has to be 100 percent accurate!

[Tonci87]

Only one little question about the stamina system: If you run too long and fall down, do you need a medic to treat you?

[Alex72]

I never needed a medic to catch my breath. In real life that is. So i presume (hope) you dont need it in ACE2 either.

[Lightninguk]

A question about the wounding system,I know is somehow broken but, medics will patch injuried soldiers to 100% Health?
Or some lower value so we HAVE to use Medevacs and behind lines support?

yes i hope you can do this as we at operationreality would be thankfull also i am sure alot of clans would like this

[TOTAL22]

A question about the wounding system,I know is somehow broken but, medics will patch injured soldiers to 100% Health?
Or some lower value so we HAVE to use Medevacs and behind lines support?

I guess this is up to the mission maker to decide.
Isn't it possible to remove the ability to 'heal' someone from a medic by writing some code in the init line? thus only leaving the ability to first-aid.

[Evil_Echo]

fantastic work on ACE2 guys,i was wonderening,anychance that there will be Anti-personel mines developed as well?,and what about the ability to booby trap weapons ect...



Additional explosives were added to ACE2. Very evil items. :smiley-evil:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Features_of_ACE2#Explosives

[Fincuan]

Uff.. So many nice mines there I sense an oncoming accidental tk-fest :D

In ACE this was everyday occurence with claymores on public servers:
Someone on side channel: All beware I have placed a claymore with a tripwire at xyz location. It is also marked on the map. STAY CLEAR OF IT
...
10 secs passes
...
Mine placer spots a friendly running towards the tripwire and starts screaming on direct:"STOP! THERE'S A MINE THERE! STO..." POOF

[Cole]

LOL. I actually remember I killed myself with claymores that I carefully placed around a certain area. Once the enemy rolled in with tanks, I wanted to run away and chose the path where I had 2 claymores on the same road.. ow.

However I really like that you guys added a tripflare. The posibilities... <3

[warrick]

This mod will be a must have for everyone. I really hope BIS will consider integrating at least some of it's features to their future releases :)

Keep on the nice work guys! :)

[Panda_pl]

Whats up with the Bradley no reactive armor??
If you look at the VBS 2 Bradley it is a perfect example of what it would look like in-game.

This made a good insider joke :D
One day you will understand...

On a sidenote... VBS2 bradley is quite innacurate, you just don't notice it. ;)

[Evil_Echo]

Uff.. So many nice mines there I sense an oncoming accidental tk-fest :D

In ACE this was everyday occurence with claymores on public servers:
Someone on side channel: All beware I have placed a claymore with a tripwire at xyz location. It is also marked on the map. STAY CLEAR OF IT
...
10 secs passes
...
Mine placer spots a friendly running towards the tripwire and starts screaming on direct:"STOP! THERE'S A MINE THERE! STO..." POOF

ROTFLMAO!

Agree - you cannot prevent some players from doing dumb things. But it sounds like your mine layer did everthing he/she could.

No doubt you will have people running into clouds of tear gas without masks, dropping WP grenades at their feet, or roving a fallout zone after a nuclear strike and then saying they feel a bit queasy. ( The map markers should be a big hint BTW ).

ACE is far more that "Advanced Combat Environment", it's an idiocy penalty enhancement system. Without proper teamwork and communications you get to watch a lot of highly entertaining attempts to make the yearly Darwin Awards list. Have a good chuckle, have the server admin kick the repeat offenders, then play on.

[NoRailgunner]

I'm still thinking that AI with ACE2 will be on top of a weekly or monthly Darwin Awards list. ;)
Which of the ACE2 features are AI "compatible" and which are not?
Which ACE2 features are used by AI on default and which have to be activated/implemented?

[Smurf]

I guess this is up to the mission maker to decide.
Isn't it possible to remove the ability to 'heal' someone from a medic by writing some code in the init line? thus only leaving the ability to first-aid.

Guess you can add\remove the abilty to heal, but dunno if you can change the % that is healed.
An < 100% healing would be nice to use in some kind of missions or organizeded events, so IF something like this will be implemented, should be via Modules.

IF...


+


Load Master

A player in with a good side view from his/her station in an air vehicle can assist the pilot via a special camera view. Useful for precision flying at low altitudes to ensure the air vehicle is in proper postion.

What?

and


Craters

Large explosions will create a crater. You may find them useful as cover.

Will be a flat texture with "invisibles walls" (as in ACE1 if im not mistaken) or will be a 3D Object?

[sparks50]

The ACE 1 craters not only had invisible walls for those in it, you could also shoot through the wall.
Making it very very easy to glitch with.

[CAS]

A question about the wounding system,I know is somehow broken but, medics will patch injuried soldiers to 100% Health?
Or some lower value so we HAVE to use Medevacs and behind lines support?


I still have some high hopes in the ACE team to make a big difference in game play here.
There is some nice coop (and singe player) team action going on in ARMA 2. It comes closer and closer to how you would react in a real firefight.

As soon as you have casualties in your team things do not look realistic at all!

In ARMA 2 and next to all other games the casualty is either lightly wounded (and healed in no time) or he is dead and totally ignored for the rest of the mission. Casualties do basically not influence the pace of the mission as long as you have enough men to fight. If single members of the team play like Rambo and get killed in an unseen location it does not matter for the mission outcome. (Should be a nightmare for a commander to have team members MIA)

In today’s conflicts big efforts are being made to take care of the casualties.
Offensive operations can be delayed or brought to a hold if it can save the live of wounded soldiers. The majority of casualties become a candidate for medevac few can continue to push forward and few die instantly. Even the dead would not just be left behind.
Often medals are awarded for the efforts in connection to the rescue of wounded soldiers.

Make it an option that more casualties are incapacitated and that you are expected to MEDEVAC them sooner or later in the mission, depending on the circumstances. (Waiting with the evac can eventually kill the wounded) This would really make ARMA 2 stand out as a different game from all the others!!! (Maybe Jagged Alliance is an exception)

It would be exciting to find out not only if you archive your fighting objectives but also if your men survive (or are MIA).

I would imagine that there is quiet some pilots in MP that would like the challenge of MEDEVACs in hot landing zones and under time pressure.
In the time in between the missions they could steer an UAV or an artillery module from their base.

Casualties should decrease in health at different rates depending on the injury. Treatment should lessen the decrease in health and transport should increase the decrease in health depending on the transport. (Dragging them is not so good, medical transport does not have a negative effect). There should be a decrease in health until the wounded arrives in a field hospital at the drop of point.

[Alex72]

This mod will be a must have for everyone. I really hope BIS will consider integrating at least some of it's features to their future releases :)

Keep on the nice work guys! :)

They did. ARMA2 has features that comes from ACE1. Dont think a patch will add some of ACE2 however. Operation Arrowhead will get new cool stuff and hopefully can be played with ACE2. Now that is something to look forward to. ;)

OnTopic: Really looking forward to all the mines. Insurgents using AP mines is just how it should be. :)

[LJF]

Loved that last video :)

I think someone mentioned something about the [body] armour, after ACE1 and the SLX mod for A2, having to unload a whole magazine into enemy soldiers just to put them down is a major pain, it also makes the weapons feel pretty cheap and useless, how is this being handled in ACE2?

- Sorry if this has already been asked before.

[Uglyboy]

Make it an option that more casualties are incapacitated and that you are expected to MEDEVAC them sooner or later in the mission, depending on the circumstances.

This is more mission related than addon related, you can script something like that in a mission, but you can't force ( for gameplay purpose reason ) this by an addon.

[Alex72]

...having to unload a whole magazine into enemy soldiers just to put them down is a major pain, it also makes the weapons feel pretty cheap and useless, how is this being handled in ACE2?

I dont know. Many complained about this but i can only tell you my experience with ACE1 and body armor & long range shooting situations. I usually double tapped my weapon and took people down easy. I shot more bullets over at the target and i managed to take them down without problem. People i played with that were used to 1 shot 1 kill had a harder time. Its not that easy as i understand it in real life to hit perfectly and get a kill. Add body armor and distance. You just dont die that easy as bullets hit around the vital organs. Soldiers stories tells that. Lots and lots of wounded to different degrees that still walk around. Thats why its important to shoot a couple of shots. There is no bullet issue either cause we have backpacks. :) To me it felt more realistic from what ive read and heard. Sniper rifles in ACE1 did take you down with 1 shot though.

Anyway. It could have been slightly easier to take them down at times, and the other problem with enemies getting up after being shot - got back into action easy was a bigger problem. If they are hurt they should at least keep crawling or move away (maybe try to flee)? But i understand that was not as easy to fix due to limitations? Im guessing.

Has to be noted i also never played the last version of ACE1 so i cant speak for what updates were made.

Alex

[LJF]

I dont know. Many complained about this but i can only tell you my experience with ACE1 and body armor & long range shooting situations. I usually double tapped my weapon and took people down easy. I shot more bullets over at the target and i managed to take them down without problem. People i played with that were used to 1 shot 1 kill had a harder time. Its not that easy as i understand it in real life to hit perfectly and get a kill. Add body armor and distance. You just dont die that easy as bullets hit around the vital organs. Soldiers stories tells that. Lots and lots of wounded to different degrees that still walk around. Thats why its important to shoot a couple of shots. There is no bullet issue either cause we have backpacks. :) To me it felt more realistic from what ive read and heard. Sniper rifles in ACE1 did take you down with 1 shot though.

Anyway. It could have been slightly easier to take them down at times, and the other problem with enemies getting up after being shot - got back into action easy was a bigger problem. If they are hurt they should at least keep crawling or move away (maybe try to flee)? But i understand that was not as easy to fix due to limitations? Im guessing.

Has to be noted i also never played the last version of ACE1 so i cant speak for what updates were made.

Alex

Ah true, yeah, I guess the problem was that being wounded in ArmA2/1 isn't a very big issue, you shoot someone in the stomach or legs and instead of collapsing on the ground in pain they just adjust their aim a little :( They're like Spartans :D

[Sky_Line]

Well, I've played the Invasion44 mod. There was (as I think, imo) the better alternative to the ACE1 wound system. You hit a person in the stomach or in chest and you have about 50/50: he either dies or lies immobilized and bleeding and then dies too. BUT, since the ACE Team members ensured us that the new wound system will be made from scratch, I think that the situation will be fundamentally different from the ACE1..At least, I hope so:)

[CAS]

I can only speak for the ARMA 1 ACE version. Here you hardly ever had incapacitated soldiers. You could completely heal them or they where dead and you could not transport them.

I cannot imagine that you could script a mission so that you have more incapacitated soldiers and so that you can transport the dead. Even if it is possible it must be so complicated that I cannot see that it would be used in many missions.

I know this is new thinking and most are sceptical, but this was the same in the beginning of OFP when people said a game can not be fun where you get killed by an unseen enemy hundreds of meters away with just a single shot after you walked over a huge map for several minutes.

[Sky_Line]

when people said a game can not be fun where you get killed by an unseen enemy hundreds of meters away with just a single shot after you walked over a huge map for several minutes.

Yes, this is not fun, this is reality:smiley-evil:

[stryder88]

Casualties should decrease in health at different rates depending on the injury. Treatment should lessen the decrease in health and transport should increase the decrease in health depending on the transport. (Dragging them is not so good, medical transport does not have a negative effect). There should be a decrease in health until the wounded arrives in a field hospital at the drop of point.

I like this - my suggestion would be first aid would need to be administered within a few minutes of the soldier being injured, or he dies. Once first aid has been administered, the casualties life span becomes a set number of minutes as defined by injury level (from 10 minutes to an hour). They can only be fully healed by a Medi centre in an FOB (a structure with a HMMVW, a tent, sandbags etc.) Either thats the end of the game for them (and the team loses an objective if this evac doesn't happen to plan) or they are fully healed after a couple of minutes in the medi centre, and can come back as reinforcements. This way those who want to be realistic can be happy, as well as those who don't think the fun should be postponed! :bounce3:

[stebbi92]

Yes, this is not fun, this is reality:smiley-evil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

[fireship4]

I still have some high hopes in the ACE team to make a big difference in game play here.
There is some nice coop (and singe player) team action going on in ARMA 2. It comes closer and closer to how you would react in a real firefight.

As soon as you have casualties in your team things do not look realistic at all!

In ARMA 2 and next to all other games the casualty is either lightly wounded (and healed in no time) or he is dead and totally ignored for the rest of the mission. Casualties do basically not influence the pace of the mission as long as you have enough men to fight. If single members of the team play like Rambo and get killed in an unseen location it does not matter for the mission outcome. (Should be a nightmare for a commander to have team members MIA)

In today’s conflicts big efforts are being made to take care of the casualties.
Offensive operations can be delayed or brought to a hold if it can save the live of wounded soldiers. The majority of casualties become a candidate for medevac few can continue to push forward and few die instantly. Even the dead would not just be left behind.
Often medals are awarded for the efforts in connection to the rescue of wounded soldiers.

Make it an option that more casualties are incapacitated and that you are expected to MEDEVAC them sooner or later in the mission, depending on the circumstances. (Waiting with the evac can eventually kill the wounded) This would really make ARMA 2 stand out as a different game from all the others!!! (Maybe Jagged Alliance is an exception)

It would be exciting to find out not only if you archive your fighting objectives but also if your men survive (or are MIA).

I would imagine that there is quiet some pilots in MP that would like the challenge of MEDEVACs in hot landing zones and under time pressure.
In the time in between the missions they could steer an UAV or an artillery module from their base.

Casualties should decrease in health at different rates depending on the injury. Treatment should lessen the decrease in health and transport should increase the decrease in health depending on the transport. (Dragging them is not so good, medical transport does not have a negative effect). There should be a decrease in health until the wounded arrives in a field hospital at the drop of point.

Great ideas.

[Kristian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

hey that cheered me up alot, thanks :p

[Myshaak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

Heh, onion rules :p

[luckyhendrix]

I hope that they will at least keep the epinephrine , morphine and bandage, I liked this. You would have to play the medic and first find what the soldier needed and then administer it .

[jhoson14]

I hope that they will at least keep the epinephrine , morphine and bandage, I liked this. You would have to play the medic and first find what the soldier needed and then administer it .

This probably will stay on the Mod, since it has so awesome on ACE1 :yay:

I hope they can implement the Plasma and the Splint on the Wounding system. Would be crucial the plasma to save a guy who lost so much bloody.

[Panda_pl]

Well, I've played the Invasion44 mod. There was (as I think, imo) the better alternative to the ACE1 wound system. You hit a person in the stomach or in chest and you have about 50/50: he either dies or lies immobilized and bleeding and then dies too. BUT, since the ACE Team members ensured us that the new wound system will be made from scratch, I think that the situation will be fundamentally different from the ACE1..At least, I hope so:)

5.56 is good for immobilizing and wounding. The .300 to the chest is more life threatening.
Plus most soldiers did not wear body armour in WW2.
:j:

[Manzilla]

Personally I liked the A1 version. It needed some tweaking sure but it wasn't bad.

[Sky_Line]

5.56 is good for immobilizing and wounding. The .300 to the chest is more life threatening.
Plus most soldiers did not wear body armour in WW2.
:j:
maybe, I also know, that the 5.56 and 5.45 inflict a terrible damage 'cause the bullets are rotating and moving randomly after penetration.
My point is, that though, this wound system (talking about ACE1, of course) is pretty realistic, unfortunately it doesn't suit best for the Single Player mode. And since I'm mostly play in SP, this thing concerns me a lot. That's why I've suggested to make this feature adjustable:)

[vilas]

maybe, I also know, that the 5.56 and 5.45 inflict a terrible damage 'cause the bullets are rotating and moving randomly after penetration.
My point is, that though, this wound system (talking about ACE1, of course) is pretty realistic, unfortunately it doesn't suit best for the Single Player mode. And since I'm mostly play in SP, this thing concerns me a lot. That's why I've suggested to make this feature adjustable:)

it is very hard for coders, i don't know if any game engine allow to implement real damage effect
real 7.62 full rifle bullet goes trough body and make sharper wound (unless not head)
while light small caliber bullets in fact are more danger, but from the other side maybe strong vest will stop it

the same rules are applied to "police" bullet and "army" bullets, police must "stop person"

it is hard to make this all working in game, even best coders would not be able to fully make it
one bullet penetrates more and looses less energy
other penetrates much less, has 2-3 times energy but looses much more energy in meat
of course damage to head is different, cause there is skull pressure, air pressure and etc. and than strong bullet can do very nasty effect and brain out

[Welcome To Hell]

7.62 has a lot more mass. That is why it is more effective even if it goes through it has enough kinetic energy to knock a man cold.

5.56 and 5.45 have a lot less kinetic energy and greater muzzle velocity which makes them shatter on impact.

I have read reports from fallujah where insurgents would get shot 1 to 3 times but would still be combat active for a short time.

5.56 and 5.45 have range and accuracy but 7.62 has stopping power. I guess one is best depends on where the combat is taking place.

[Sky_Line]

I just mean that in single, some features of ACE1 wound system affected the gameplay, I realise that it is hard as hell to make different types of bullets and I don't think that it is really necessary in the game. The main idea is to make ACE more SP-friendly with adjustable WS parameters.
Edit: IMO, the 7.62 bullet has more range than 5.56 and 5.45 because of the weight and kinetic energy: less weight - less stable. here is the proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbB__F-nd1Q
The AK-103 has 7.62 calibre bullet. I doubt about 5.45 or 5.56 can be effective on that range.

[jhoson14]

Its not recomended to play the Single Player campaing with ACE.

Wich 7.62 are guys talking about?

Becouse a 7.62x51mm have a greater range if compared to a 5.56x45mm.Unless you guys are refering to 7.62x39mm.

[Sky_Line]

Its not recomended to play the Single Player campaing with ACE.

Wich 7.62 are guys talking about?


Why the hell not?!! Isn't it cool to have sight adjustment and other cool things in single?

I was comparing 7.62x39 with 5.45x39 and 5.56x45. And as I think the 7.62 is much more effective at big distances and also at close ranges too, 'cause it has higher penetration qualities. Yeah the 5.56 and 5.45 has more speed but I'd rather prefer to have more chances to kill a guy in armor vest than just scratch him.

[Enforcer1975]

Why the hell not?!! Isn't it cool to have sight adjustment and other cool things in single?

I was comparing 7.62x39 with 5.45x39 and 5.56x45. And as I think the 7.62 is much more effective at big distances and also at close ranges too, 'cause it has higher penetration qualities. Yeah the 5.56 and 5.45 has more speed but I'd rather prefer to have more chances to kill a guy in armor vest than just scratch him.

If i understand you correct you prefer the smaller bullet rather than the bigger one, right? That's imho the better choice because a penetrating bullet delivers less energy in the target.

@<hidden> Sky_Line

At combat range the smaller bullet is more effective at combat range than the bigger one due to the penetration. Sure you still have more energy at greater distances provided that you hit the target due to the higher trajectory and slower travel speed compared to the flatter trajectory of the 5.56.

[ReconTeam]

The AK-103 is uses the old 7.62x39mm caliber used by the classic AKM. It is not a true rifle caliber however like 7.62x51mm. Yes the round can go 1000 meters but the chances of actually hitting a man sized target at the range are slim, and even then the round probably doesn't have enough power to take down the target.

Technically the M16A2 has a max range for an "area target" of 800 meters, but beyond 500 meters or so you really should be using something more than an intermediate caliber.

There is some confusion over the latest generation of AK rifles so here is a quick rundown. Note that most of the 5.56mm designs are intended for export.

AK-74M (5.45x39mm)
AK-101 (5.56x45mm)
AK-103 (7.62x39mm)

The only major difference between these models is the caliber, the AK-74M is currently the Russian Army's standard weapon although the AK-103 is supposedly used in limited numbers.

AK-102 (compact version of AK-101)
AK-104 (compact version of AK-103)
AK-105 (compact version of AK-74M)

These are all shortened versions of the previous designs although they are not as short as the AKS-74U.

AK-107 (5.45x39mm)
AK-108 (5.56x45mm)

These rifles use a "balanced operating system" designed to reduce recoil, have a higher cyclic rate of fire, and have an optional three-round burst mode. In ArmA2 the Russians use the AK-107 although I do not know the status of the project in real life.

AN-94 (5.45x39mm)

Technically not a Kalashnikov rifle but for awhile the Russians planned for the AN-94 to become their new standard rifle. It has a unique two round burst mode that delays the recoil until both shots have been fired minimizing any deviation between the two rounds. While used in limited numbers I believe the Russians no longer plan to replace the AK-74 with this.

AEK-971 (5.45x39mm)
AEK-972 (5.56x45mm)
AEK-973 (7.62x39mm)

These weapons are also not Kalashnikov designs but they competitor with the AN-94 in competitions for Russia's next rifle and lost. However in the early 2000s the AEK-971 saw limited production until 2006. They use a "balanced operating design" similar to the AK-107.

[Sky_Line]

What is "combat range"? IMO, but 7.62x39 is better than 5.45 and 5.56. You saw a vid? Can m16 hit a target which is 1000 yards away? I really doubt that.

Yes the round can go 1000 meters but the chances of actually hitting a man sized target at the range are slim, and even then the round probably doesn't have enough power to take down the target.
Yeah but 5.56 or 5.45 won't even fly this distance, sure if you're not pointing your gun at about 45 degrees to the line of target, LOL:)

[TOTAL22]

Why the hell not?!! Isn't it cool to have sight adjustment and other cool things in single?

I was comparing 7.62x39 with 5.45x39 and 5.56x45. And as I think the 7.62 is much more effective at big distances and also at close ranges too, 'cause it has higher penetration qualities. Yeah the 5.56 and 5.45 has more speed but I'd rather prefer to have more chances to kill a guy in armor vest than just scratch him.

now, it seems to me again you guys are starting to talk about your own likings...?
First, this thread is about ACE2, and not about what ACE1 was like.
In addition, they have already said that they are redesigning the wound system from scratch, if I'm not mistaken, right?
So, you are all welcome to complain and/or debate about ACE2s features when it comes out but please please don't go on about something which hasn't been released yet.
Surely, this is not the thread where we should be debating about each and our own unique likings.

[vilas]

Sky_Line - what is combat range ?
M16 vs AK ?
remember about accuracy and trajectory
kinetic energy is not main reason why one weapon is better than second
of course "bullet" can have power, but weapons made for this round may be not perfect
while weapons made for other bullet are much better when it comes to accuracy

in game you have one parameter for dispersion, probably there is no other way to make "trajectory poor and loosing accuracy after XXX meters"

army equipped with M16A2/A4 will have better effect on battlefield than army equipped with AKMS and RPK
why ? cause on 400 meters you will see who will be more accurate
of course situation can little change when this second army replaces old stuff with AEK and AK103 but you know

bullet is one thing, weapons produced massively is other , you may have right theoretically but take under account AKMS, M16A4 etc.
one bullet can be better, while other rifle using other bullet have better flat trajectory

if it was so good and super, why Soviet army made 5.45 system in 70's, Soviet/Russians always do sense practical equipment useful not gadgets, so why they did it ? for sure not to "follow imperialists"?

[NoRailgunner]

Why not wait till ACE2 is released? Guess there are many things that need a polish or finetuning here and there - and of course BIS didnt release the last + final patch for Arma2 yet. Its all in progress...

[Pain0815]

I got an Idee what the ACE guys could add to their Mod.

Would be cool if you could build and carry some camouflage nets which really stop the ability to lock on the vehicles under them (choppers, jets and javelins cant lock on).

[schaefsky]

Not sure if it isn't already a planned feature, but:
I always missed something like dug-in positions (if this the correct term). Now, IIRC it is not possible to lower terrain to make ditches, neither is it possible to make vehicles go into ground (I think this works with static objects like MGs, though).
So, I have been playing "Blitzkrieg 2" recently, and in this game you can tell your tanks and heavy guns to dig-in, kind off. The way they do it is putting a sandbag wall or heap of dirt in front of the unit (depending on terrain type).
This should be possible in Arma 2, too, shouldn't it? Just put a "cover-object" (sandbags, dirt-heaps) in front of the vehicle / unit to provide some cover.
I think one could even go so far as replacing a tank with a static object tank and lower it into the ground, but I think that's probably not worth the hastle because of MP issues and would look a bit stupid anyway.
If your interested, but don't have time, I could also try to provide you with a proof-of-concept (and maybe full-script later on).

[Sky_Line]

if it was so good and super, why Soviet army made 5.45 system in 70's, Soviet/Russians always do sense practical equipment useful not gadgets, so why they did it ? for sure not to "follow imperialists"? well, I know some people, who served in the soviet/russian army and they told me that this calibre change is not so good. If to compare AK-74M and AK-103 - imo, 103rd is better.
I've also read in the book called "Russian firearms" by Charlie Cutshaw, where he wrote that there was an attempt in Russia to use a new developed ammunition and weapon system based on 6x49mm rounds. But unfortunately, there were not enough resources for that.
PS: Well, since ACE2 is still in progress, I think we can discuss the nearby things here, imo:)

[Pain0815]

In the editor there are nice walls to protect vehicles and infantry. They could build by infantry together with camouflage nets to build defensive positions to hold key areas.

They are looking like raised terrain from front and have a wooden wall behind.

[Inkompetent]

Different rounds are good for different things. Simple as that. 7.62x39mm is only effective out to 300-400m. After 400m the bullet drop is so severe it's getting hard to hit anything, and after 500m it is outright impossible, even if the weapon could fire the round straight enough.

Also, at 300m a 7.62x39mm fired from an AK-47 has pretty much equal kinetic energy as a 5.56x45mm fired from an M16, the 7.62 losing energy FAST (amount of propellant vs bullet weight), while the 5.56 can retain it much better.

Not going to argue about effectiveness of impact though since we have different bullet shape, diameter, construction and mass, but it can give a hint about why different rounds are good for different things.


All in all the ACE1 system was good as far as damage and penetration can be considered. It was AI getting up like nothing had happened when they regained conciousness that was a problem, and that I bet is what most people are interested in how it is solved, not whether bullet penetration or damage is perfectly spot on considering to source X, source Y or source Z, or a mix of the three.

[vilas]

Different rounds are good for different things. Simple as that. 7.62x39mm is only effective out to 300-400m. After 400m the bullet drop is so severe it's getting hard to hit anything, and after 500m it is outright impossible, even if the weapon could fire the round straight enough.

Also, at 300m a 7.62x39mm fired from an AK-47 has pretty much equal kinetic energy as a 5.56x45mm fired from an M16, the 7.62 losing energy FAST (amount of propellant vs bullet weight), while the 5.56 can retain it much better.

Not going to argue about effectiveness of impact though since we have different bullet shape, diameter, construction and mass, but it can give a hint about why different rounds are good for different things.


All in all the ACE1 system was good as far as damage and penetration can be considered. It was AI getting up like nothing had happened when they regained conciousness that was a problem, and that I bet is what most people are interested in how it is solved, not whether bullet penetration or damage is perfectly spot on considering to source X, source Y or source Z, or a mix of the three.

yes i wrote it site ago, about flat trajectory of 5.56 ammo
while AK weapons massively used are less accurate than M16 (not only ammo is important, but massively owned weapons for ammo)

but game has its limits and many things cannot be applied

[Uglyboy]

Not sure if it isn't already a planned feature, but:
I always missed something like dug-in positions (if this the correct term). Now, IIRC it is not possible to lower terrain to make ditches, neither is it possible to make vehicles go into ground (I think this works with static objects like MGs, though).
So, I have been playing "Blitzkrieg 2" recently, and in this game you can tell your tanks and heavy guns to dig-in, kind off. The way they do it is putting a sandbag wall or heap of dirt in front of the unit (depending on terrain type).
This should be possible in Arma 2, too, shouldn't it? Just put a "cover-object" (sandbags, dirt-heaps) in front of the vehicle / unit to provide some cover.
I think one could even go so far as replacing a tank with a static object tank and lower it into the ground, but I think that's probably not worth the hastle because of MP issues and would look a bit stupid anyway.
If your interested, but don't have time, I could also try to provide you with a proof-of-concept (and maybe full-script later on).

You didn't bother to check the features list right? It was already possible in ACE1 to place sandbags ( and even pile them ) and it will possible too in ACE 2

[Pain0815]

You didn't bother to check the features list right? It was already possible in ACE1 to place sandbags ( and even pile them ) and it will possible too in ACE 2

Thats a really nice feature, but whats with big digged cover for vehicles and camo nets which hide vehicles?

[Waycool]

Amazing ACE 2 looks fabulous. Can't wait it will be a must have. Cheers.

[Panda_pl]

According to the ballistic gellatine tests diagrams the 7.62 even with overpenetration and without fragmentation or tumbiling is creating massive dammage with shockwave alone. Since our bodies are filled with fluids the pressure wave propagates just fine and smashes stuff within us like a hammer (The shape of the nose of bullet is of great importance btw).

The diagramm for 5.56 looks simmilar, untill you look at how axes are scalled. ;)
The 5.56 wounds are much harder to heal after you survive the hit and more people would die over time due to infection or bleeding, which would also prove to be more of a burden to enemy force... The fragmentation does make up for lack of mass, the kinetic energy is distributed over large area. But it's still not as good as 7.62.

This is assuming that you were hit at short or medium range where the 5.56 will shatter.

The 7.62 is unarguabely superior when dealing wioth body armour at any range.

As to implementation:
The dammage dealt by bullet is in ArmA downscalled as velocity decreases linearly and there is no choice about it, it is an engine limitation and you cannot have the effect of fragmentation/no fragmentation of 5.56 taken into account properly. Plus the 5.56 has much poorer armour penetration. But as someone said "in ArmA soldiers have hitpoints", so let's leave that alone ;).

[schaefsky]

You didn't bother to check the features list right? It was already possible in ACE1 to place sandbags ( and even pile them ) and it will possible too in ACE 2

To be honest, no I did not check.
But now that I did, I remember reading about the sandbags before :)

However, that is not exactly what I meant. In the editor, there are objects (like dirt heaps) you can place which provide some cover while you can still lie down and shoot to the front over the cover. And I think they look good.
Blabla... will try to upload a mission over the weekend in which I used these rather extensivly. I think this will better show what I mean than me talking.
Thinking about it, it would probably be pretty much the same thing like the sandbags, just without the sandbags and piling. ;)
While I did use sandbags in OFP and Arma1 to make firing positions, I always thought they look a bit stupid (in many cases, at least. Just like a heap of dirt as cover will look rather stupid on let's say a runway). And now that there are such nice objects in Vanilla, why not put them to good use?

[NouberNou]

To be honest, no I did not check.
But now that I did, I remember reading about the sandbags before :)

However, that is not exactly what I meant. In the editor, there are objects (like dirt heaps) you can place which provide some cover while you can still lie down and shoot to the front over the cover. And I think they look good.
Blabla... will try to upload a mission over the weekend in which I used these rather extensivly. I think this will better show what I mean than me talking.
Thinking about it, it would probably be pretty much the same thing like the sandbags, just without the sandbags and piling. ;)
While I did use sandbags in OFP and Arma1 to make firing positions, I always thought they look a bit stupid (in many cases, at least. Just like a heap of dirt as cover will look rather stupid on let's say a runway). And now that there are such nice objects in Vanilla, why not put them to good use?


Because sandbags provide for a maintainable and customizable defensive position to be built more easily. Its easier to stack a wall of sandbags than it is to make a pile of dirt the equivalent size.

Also just because they put sandbags in the game doesn't mean you can't use the objects that are already there...

[schaefsky]

Because sandbags provide for a maintainable and customizable defensive position to be built more easily. Its easier to stack a wall of sandbags than it is to make a pile of dirt the equivalent size.

And in this case I think size matters! I actually like the smaller cover the dirt heaps provide.


Also just because they put sandbags in the game doesn't mean you can't use the objects that are already there...

I would like to rephrase that:
Also just because there already are sandbags in the game doesn't mean you can't use the other objects that are also there...

I promise I will get that mission up somewhere, I really suck at explaining things.

[Alex72]

You say you dont like the extra option ACE2 gives us with carrying empty sandbags that we can build up defenses with?

They've proven very useful in ArmA1 where we built up cover before a strike from different directions. Even when i was alone one time on a field. I had nothing to hide behind but carried a couple of empty sandbags. There was a patrol on my tail and as they got closer (i was not detected but they were searching and head my way) i managed to get 5 bags up - made like a pyramid basically with 2+2 at bottom and 1 on top in the middle of the bottom ones - i got enough protection to take them out. They shot at me and the bags took the punishment. Without them i would be dead.

So they are useful. Not to say its a very cool and fun element of the game ACE2 brings with those bags. ;)

EDIT: Like UglyBoy (what a name lol :D ) said below: They are individual empty sandbags that you through the action menu fill one at the time and then hold in your hand. You put them down where ever you want and can stack them ontop eachother building defences as you want. You can build them up so you make firing holes between the bags for example. And like the ACE2 feature video showed (if you missed that?) you can even place these bags on top of your vehicles hood!

I think you just didnt grasp how awesome they are. But that should have changed now. :)

Alex

[Uglyboy]

And in this case I think size matters! I actually like the smaller cover the dirt heaps provide.


This is strange, did you actually see how the ACE1 sandbags where? There was a custom object of a single sandbag that you can put over any surface in the game ( Flat surfaces ). I mean, a single sandbag is small, maybe you are thinking about the sandbag object that are in the game ( larger sandbag made "wall") ?

---------- Post added at 03:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 AM ----------

A pic explain better :) on the left you can see a single sandbag, on the right 3 sandbags piled up.
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7382/acesand.jpg
It was a brilliant feature in A1, proven to be very useful and the the way it was implemented is just perfect.

[Angle]

I'd like to request a feature.

Putting satchel charges in/on/under cars, chopper and planes. And then when someone drives off with it you can touch off the bomb. Made for great fun in battlefield 2.

[Rhodesy77]

dosnt matter if he survived, the point is you can bet he was not combat effective, hence could not fight. sadly in arma2 you can not fully simulate battle wounds nor medics on the scale that would be needed. so dieing is more or less the same as becoming combat ineffective. since i doubt the player would rather spend the rest of the mission (several hours) laying either in the mud or on a stretcher waiting to be medivacted then operated on back at base....

its all about compromises guys.

[STGN]

According to the ballistic gellatine tests diagrams the 7.62 even with overpenetration and without fragmentation or tumbiling is creating massive dammage with shockwave alone. Since our bodies are filled with fluids the pressure wave propagates just fine and smashes stuff within us like a hammer (The shape of the nose of bullet is of great importance btw).

The diagramm for 5.56 looks simmilar, untill you look at how axes are scalled. ;)
The 5.56 wounds are much harder to heal after you survive the hit and more people would die over time due to infection or bleeding, which would also prove to be more of a burden to enemy force... The fragmentation does make up for lack of mass, the kinetic energy is distributed over large area. But it's still not as good as 7.62.

This is assuming that you were hit at short or medium range where the 5.56 will shatter.

The 7.62 is unarguabely superior when dealing wioth body armour at any range.

As to implementation:
The dammage dealt by bullet is in ArmA downscalled as velocity decreases linearly and there is no choice about it, it is an engine limitation and you cannot have the effect of fragmentation/no fragmentation of 5.56 taken into account properly. Plus the 5.56 has much poorer armour penetration. But as someone said "in ArmA soldiers have hitpoints", so let's leave that alone ;).

Hmm which 7.62 are you talking about? 62g M855 5.56 doesn't shatter on impact its amour piercing, what it does is that if its traveling at over 2700 feet pr second it will fragment, because the nose is slowed down faster than the rear, the rear will try to "over take" the nose causing the projectile to bent and shatter instead of just tumbling like the 5.45. That is at least how I understand it.
STGN

[Enforcer1975]

I don't think size really matters in rifle calibers. If the bullet is designed to transfer a lot of energy into the target that will do :D


ArmA 2 should be able to differ between armored and non armored infantry? If yes just add a bit more damage to simulate stopping power :p

And those who think the russian 7.62 is superior to body armor. There is a viedo on youtube where a grunt gets hit in the chest with a SVD. Afaik he just broke a rib or just got a bruise and his team captured the wannabe sniperterrorists. :yay: Their fault for waiting for him to face them with the front side of his body armor :D

[schaefsky]

You say you dont like the extra option ACE2 gives us with carrying empty sandbags that we can build up defenses with?
...
I think you just didnt grasp how awesome they are. But that should have changed now. :)

Alex

Geez, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Sorry for swearing but this attitude is getting on my nerves.
The only thing I was trying to say is that I personaly think while the sandbags are a nice feature (and I forgot ACE is giving / will give us more features to deploy them more flexible), I also think the dirt heaps are pretty cool as cover and in my opinion look just better in open terrain.
I am not saying that the ACE team is stupid, isn't awesome, I think I can do everthing better and they should throw out the sandbags alltogether.
I am saying that it could be nice to add an additional feature (adding the dirt hepas as cover and maybe the bigger ones for tanks and stuff and make them deployable via script). Since I think that feature is fairly easy to implement I was also offering to do it myself, since I feal up to this task.
Screw it, I will just try to do it as a standalone script, and if anyone likes it (including ACE and other mods), they can use it ... or not. It is called choice.


This is strange, did you actually see how the ACE1 sandbags where? There was a custom object of a single sandbag that you can put over any surface in the game ( Flat surfaces ). I mean, a single sandbag is small, maybe you are thinking about the sandbag object that are in the game ( larger sandbag made "wall") ?

---------- Post added at 03:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 AM ----------

A pic explain better :) on the left you can see a single sandbag, on the right 3 sandbags piled up.
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7382/acesand.jpg
It was a brilliant feature in A1, proven to be very useful and the the way it was implemented is just perfect.

I really totaly seem to have missed that feature in ACE1.
Your picture shows very nice how out of place a dirt heap as cover would look in this scenario, just like I think sandbags look a bit out of place in e.g. the woods.

Anyways, when I have something to show for, I will open an extra thread.
Sorry for further derailing this IMO already cluttered thread. Thought it was a good idea, did not think it would turn out like this.

[TOTAL22]

I will look forward to that script, schaefsky.
Convincing everyone by showing is the quickest way to go :)

[Evil_Echo]

1. Wound and ballistics.

Anyone who thinks that just the caliber matters is incredibly naive. When you design a round, there are trade-offs in penetration vs damage vs range vs etc....

A 7.62mm round travels further and can often punch through body armor better. But it often goes straight though a human body - exit wound not much larger than 8mm.

A 5.56mm will tumble on impact and transfer nearly all of it's kinetic energy to the target. You can get huge wounds from it. Plus that round has a nasty habit of richocheting around inside you. However that round deflects off foliage easily, loses speed faster and certainly has less ability to penetrate armor.

Simulating these issues is not trivial. If shot in the chest the 7.62mm will have better chance of defeating body armor and causing an injury - though not as likely to be fatal due to bullet characterics ( could easily survive or even fight back for a while ). A 5.56mm to the thigh would not encounter armor and could either destroy the femoral artery or even bounce off the bone and go upwards ( know a case of that happening - round exited opposing shoulder, destroyed the victim's lung along the way ). Such wounds can kill very quickly.

2. Sandbags, craters, dirt piles, etc.

Building up land features has proven to be far easier than digging down. There was some work by Loki and his team to do dynamic terrain, have not heard much recently though.

If someone comes up with a workable system for altering terrain that meets ACE's quality standards I would think the team would at least take a look at it.

[Ryujin]

1. Wound and ballistics.

Anyone who thinks that just the caliber matters is incredibly naive. When you design a round, there are trade-offs in penetration vs damage vs range vs etc....

A 7.62mm round travels further and can often punch through body armor better. But it often goes straight though a human body - exit wound not much larger than 8mm.

Arrrg! My pet peeve... 7.62x39 or 7.62x51 makes a BIG difference. Russian (but generally not Chinese) 7.62x39 tumbles. I usually tumbles late, so you get nasty exist wounds when hitting the thickest parts of the body. 7.62x51 is obviously much higher velocity, but forms pretty "tame" wounds without a permanent cavity significantly larger than the round.

I think someone also mentioned pressure waves previously, as far as I know those do not make much of a difference in small arms calibers. Most human tissue is pretty elastic and 70% water, so it just stretches, much like what you see on ballistic gelatin tests. Some tissues like the liver can be damaged, but I don't think that will make any real difference to weather your round dropped someone or not. However in the case of something like .50, it stretches them well beyond the breaking point.



A 5.56mm will tumble on impact and transfer nearly all of it's kinetic energy to the target. You can get huge wounds from it. Plus that round has a nasty habit of richocheting around inside you. However that round deflects off foliage easily, loses speed faster and certainly has less ability to penetrate armor.


5.56mm will fragment on impact if it is the right round type like M855 and if the target is less than 150m away, so it has the necessary velocity. A properly fragmenting round is probably more effective than a 7.62x39 hit (keep in mind if you fail to hit the CNS or heart, your round will not be immediately lethal. Massive blood loss/blood pressure drop is the only other thing to take them out of the fight, and fragmenting 5.56 does that pretty well. Though in most cases it doesn't matter, as incapacitation is often physiological. Most people are incapacitated from physiological factors and conditioning, not hit their limits of physical incapacitation. Take those insurgents on pure adrenaline for an example of the psychological element removed. Those guys would take multiple rounds to the chest and just get up and run away or engage in hand to hand combat without an arm. So modeling all this stuff is pretty complex, but ACE1 was pretty good, except for the AI getting up after laying there unconscious and bleeding out for 7 minutes and keep fighting.




2. Sandbags, craters, dirt piles, etc.

Building up land features has proven to be far easier than digging down. There was some work by Loki and his team to do dynamic terrain, have not heard much recently though.

If someone comes up with a workable system for altering terrain that meets ACE's quality standards I would think the team would at least take a look at it.

Dynamic terrain requires islands made specifically for it and I don't *think* it worked with stuff like trees.

[Das Attorney]

Without going into too much unnecessary detail, I work for a company that insures the US military, and some of the work involves claims relating to gunshot wounds sustained while on TDY (rare) or more commonly, while on deployment. Irrespective of the politics of the situation, a lot of good young men are left with life changing injuries from either 5.56 or 7.62. There's not a lot to choose from when looking at the injuries - significant numbers involve massive tissue trauma and broken bones (often with the bone acting as shrapnel as it comes apart). Some get lucky and get a 'flesh wound', but sadly this is less common - we even had one poor guy who was grazed by a 7.62 and then fell over, shattering his wrist as he tried to stop his fall. (The 25kg backpack he was wearing didn't help). The bullet wound was superficial but the consequential open break had him in hospital for much longer.

As Evil Echo stated, 5.56 will shatter and transfer more energy to the target (or maybe hit a bone and then follow it). I've observed though that 7.62 is more likely to pass through a person, but it creates a hydraulic vacuum (not sure if that is the correct medical term) and literally sucks out the gooey mess created from the pressure wave as it passes through the human body.

Shock, too is a killer as without the attention of bods who know what they're doing, relatively minor injuries can be complicated.

Ultimately, I don't think there's much difference between the two. Most of the people we deal with attest their survival and (hopefully successful rehabilitation) to the quality of the medical care afforded to them. It's quite clear that without prompt medical attention, a good deal of these young men would be dead. Clearly, being hit with a round from an assault rifle is no joke, and would very quickly drain the will of the victim to participate in further combat.

I hope that you (the reader) is not offended by this post. I don't want to come across as flippant, and I have the utmost respect for the servicemen I've had the honour of talking to. Maybe the 'ACE X Mod' thread isn't the place for these kind of discussions anyway. I just thought it important to get my views on this across. Personally, I think the current BIS system is okay. If the ACE guys want to mod the wound behaviour, that's cool too. I'm more looking towards the other features of ACE, and think that there should be less emphasis on the medical consequences of wounds. After all, this isn't a 'Doctor Simulator'. Maybe that's just the nature of my job getting to me, but it's something I'm not too excited about. However, I can see that some excellent missions could be put together rescuing fallen brothers in arms, but this should be balanced out by wanting to play the game and be involved in the action, not waiting on a stretcher for 20 minutes, while a medic occasionally selects something from a menu to keep you alive until an airlift can take you to safety (and convalescence).

That kind of thing should be left to the realm of mission makers IMO and not forced on everyone as the default ACE experience.

Thanks, DA

(PS - I know nothing of 5.56 vs 7.62 with respect to armour) I only have observed their effect on the human body)

[CAS]

dosnt matter if he survived, the point is you can bet he was not combat effective, hence could not fight. sadly in arma2 you can not fully simulate battle wounds nor medics on the scale that would be needed. so dieing is more or less the same as becoming combat ineffective. since i doubt the player would rather spend the rest of the mission (several hours) laying either in the mud or on a stretcher waiting to be medivacted then operated on back at base....

its all about compromises guys.

You should have the option to stop playing your incapacitated soldier! You could re spawn in the meantime as a new soldier. For the incapacitated soldier it is the same as dying is now. But for his team members we have a new situation! They have someone they have to get out of danger, treat and evacuate!
Of course they can also chose to leave him behind as if he is dead. That is probably what a drug intoxicated third world kind of soldier would do...
A modern army would care!

If ACE would implement that more causalities get incapacitated and that you can transport the incapacitated and dead soldiers you would have the option to adopt a new play style. You still have the option to play as you were used to (ignoring the incapacitated).

About the discussion of different calibres and the damage they make...
I just don’t see that you would be expected to continue to fight (the offensive way) no matter what calibre punctured your skin.

[Evil_Echo]

Like I said - caliber is not the sole factor.

The x39 does tumble easier than the x51. But as mentioned, it has that effect only on large sections of tissue - whereas the 5.56 NATO round destablises in very short distances in matter denser than air ( e.g. flesh ). Some 7.62 rounds start to tumble after traveling through 15-20cm of flesh, nearly through a human chest. A 5.56mm round, especially the older versions fired through low-twist barrels, would tumble in as little as 3cm. The effect is far more devasting.

Also the topic of temporary vs permanent cavity was mentioned. It's subject of debate even among experts as to how significant it can be. But it is agreed that hydrostatic shock can disrupt tissue in some cases.

Fragmentation is also a factor. Often a 5.56mm will break up during tumbling, leading to even more energy transfer. If you did not know better, you'd think the round had exploded based on the damage.

Agree that individual response to trauma is extremely variable. That makes the damage modeling even more tricky.

Personally I think the major grief many people had with ACE1 wound system was how the AI was handled. Getting ambushed by a enemy AI soldier you thought was down for the count can be aggravating to be sure. ACE is taking those comments seriously in the new design. Wait and see what we come up with, ok?

[Panda_pl]

It is an intresting subject. However the more you think about it the implementation seems to get harder and harder.
It seems that the angle at which you were shot might be the deciding factor.
I took the diagrams from here:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm
and put them over eachother:

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6848/tempdoz.jpg

The good news is that 7.62 will not fully tumble in your body.
Bad news is that it will likely exit the body sideways.
The exit wond should be bigger thatn 5.56 unless your body is really slender. ;)

If you are prone or standing but hit from side (running etc) the bullet will tumble and you are seriously messed up.
I am wondering if having body armour does not actually act to diasadvantage in this case as it will deform and dammage the bullets unless it stopps them completely.

In case of 5.56 it's better if it will not fragmentate, because if it will you are in great trouble no matter what.

And this is all if we assume we are just bags full of gellatine.

Stopping power and wound severity are to some degree separate issues.
For example if a carbine bullet hits your helmet and does not penetrate you still are immiediately out of combat and for longer time, even if there is no injury.
I can also imagine the effect it will have on enemy combatant if his guts get shaken and mixed, even if the wound is not serious. Demoralising effect itself can be enougth for the guy not to try to get back into combat.

So in total... perhabs it's better to just assign some empirical values to the dammage= for bullets and not worry about it.

[Alex72]

Geez, what the fuck is wrong with you?


Wow... Am i not entitled to think its great with more options? Am i not entitled to explain to others about having more options?

I understand now you didnt manage to explain it the way you wanted, but no need for snapping with those words at me. I had no such intensions towards you. Only to explain what i think you didnt know.

I mean no harm.

[Ryujin]

So in total... perhabs it's better to just assign some empirical values to the dammage= for bullets and not worry about it.

Yeah, especially with the ArmA engine it's better to abstract it and not worry about simulating it. Just try to get reasonable end results. The best thing is to try to randomize it somewhat. So if I shoot guy A in the leg with 2 9mm and guy B with 2 9mm in the leg, they won't have the EXACT same results, but some variation in say bleeding and stuff. Or say have 5.56mm do more damage at range under 100-150m (that might be tricky).

[Tonci87]

Maybe I´m wrong, but isn´t this the ACE 2 Thread? It seems to me someone converted it into the which caliber kills the best? Thread.

[Smurf]

Maybe I´m wrong, but isn´t this the ACE 2 Thread? It seems to me someone converted it into the which caliber kills the best? Thread.

And what else we can discuss? :p

There isn´t much more questions to be answered (again), dev are releasing stuff in regular basis, we can´t especulate much and there is some servers with ACE2 Alpha already.

Maybe we are close to some release.... :yay:

[Pain0815]

No i dont want new modeled stuff or anything complicated with terraforming, hehe.

I took a few pics:

http://s3.directupload.net/images/091121/99yguibd.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Here you see what i mean with able to dig cover for vehicles. This 4 things are already in the editor.

http://s4.directupload.net/images/091121/rh6fxswv.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Here are the camo nets, Would be cool if they would block the ability to lock on the targets below them.


http://s6.directupload.net/images/091121/kx5szowa.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)


Would be a nice additional feature to be able to dig in your troops to prepare for a fight.

And cover anti air or tank positions against jets and choppers with the camo.


EDIT: Maybe a shovel for the inventory or the bagpack wich is needed to shovel such things up

If you have shovel in inventory then you will get a mousemenue entry to build cover, then you can choose between those 4 statics and then you rotate and place them

The camo nets could be an inventory item too which you need to carry somewhere and then you can build them up to cover positions against air targets


Just some ideas

[Das Attorney]

An E-Tool would be quite cool. The best use of it would be to batter your opponent if you're out of ammunition of course :)

However, there's a huge thread on bayonets and close combat weapons floating around somewhere, but it doesn't look like anyone's making a mod like that.

[Delta 51]

any chance to include some aussie units?

[colossus]

ACE aims to improve gameplay into a more realistic combat sim, basing it on the original content, not replacement packs for a spesfic nation.
Aussie units would be over, at Project Aus (Armaholic forums) (http://www.armaholic.com/forums.php?m=posts&p=60103#60103).

[Smurf]

Would be nice to see others studios integrating the ACE2 units list, as we have now in the Project Reality, "Community Factions" that are included in the game. FDF, BW, AUS, UFK, GROM\Polish, PLA,RACS,FFAA etc... as separated downloable packs, fully compatibile with each other.

Would be a dream...

[b00ce]

I have a suggestion for the Stryker MGS. When it shoots make a shell come out of the back of the turret some time later. See vid.

Best quality vid I could find. 3:15 is a good reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzi8cBiHfGM

[Ryujin]

An E-Tool would be quite cool. The best use of it would be to batter your opponent if you're out of ammunition of course :)


Batter? Slice would be more of the verb.

Personally I'm more partial to helmet throwing...

But yeah, I could see an E tool for making those small pieces of cover, a bit more realistic and faster than sandbags.

For tank sized cover, I'd make a custom model without the wood backing, more like a larger version of those small dirt ones. But it would take forever to make something like that with an E tool, a tank with a digging blade or an engineering vehicle would be even better.

[scubaman3D]

I have a suggestion for the Stryker MGS. When it shoots make a shell come out of the back of the turret some time later. See vid.

Best quality vid I could find. 3:15 is a good reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzi8cBiHfGM

This was already in ACE1

[Das Attorney]

Batter? Slice would be more of the verb.

You're right of course - slicing and chopping are more E-Tool territory. On a tangent, I didn't even know about it until I saw that ridiculously amusing show "Deadliest Warrior" - very funny, Slitherine Studios and Max Geiger. You couldn't make it up! :)

[Darkhorse 1-6]

You should have the option to stop playing your incapacitated soldier! You could re spawn in the meantime as a new soldier. For the incapacitated soldier it is the same as dying is now. But for his team members we have a new situation! They have someone they have to get out of danger, treat and evacuate!
Of course they can also chose to leave him behind as if he is dead. That is probably what a drug intoxicated third world kind of soldier would do...
A modern army would care!

If ACE would implement that more causalities get incapacitated and that you can transport the incapacitated and dead soldiers you would have the option to adopt a new play style. You still have the option to play as you were used to (ignoring the incapacitated).

I know that most people in the "Realism Unit" community would love to be able to bring the bodies of their fallen comrades back to base or back home for a proper burial. The ability to load your dead into a truck or APC or ambulance would be awesome.

[CAS]

I know that most people in the "Realism Unit" community would love to be able to bring the bodies of their fallen comrades back to base or back home for a proper burial. The ability to load your dead into a truck or APC or ambulance would be awesome.

It would make teams stick together and give you some other challenges than just shooting...

[Evil_Echo]

any chance to include some aussie units?


ACE aims to improve gameplay into a more realistic combat sim, basing it on the original content, not replacement packs for a spesfic nation.
...

One goal of ACE2 is to make it easier for others to make ACE2 compatable addons and mods. ACEX is our own case of that - where the stuff not directly tied to the ACE2 core lives ( e.g. the small-arms, APCs, helos, jets, etc ).

People wishing to make ACE2-compatible nationality packs can certainly contact us. We already have one major dev working with us right now.

[CAS]

Some interesting facts related to casualetys from an article about operation iraqi freedom (invasion):

"During this phase of operations, patient movement by air was swift and critical patients typically received surgical care at an FRSS within 30 minutes after injury."

WOW that's hard to archive in peacetime!

"During OIF I, 85.8% of casualties in the I MEF area of responsibility were classified as WIA"

KIA only 13,5% (including those dying on transport)

"Historically, the KIA rates in major conflicts have been approximately 20%. Death on the battlefield is most commonly due to penetrating wounds to the head (37%), chest (24%), abdomen (9%), and extremity (3%). One-half of these deaths are secondary to exsanguinating hemorrhage and 10% to 20% of such deaths are from extremity wounds."

Here the link for further reading:
http://archsurg.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/143/6/564

Hope it makes you see what is wrong in current computergames.
And don't start to say it would not be fun because we never had the chance to try it out!

[Alex72]

Would be nice to see others studios integrating the ACE2 units list, as we have now in the Project Reality, "Community Factions" that are included in the game. FDF, BW, AUS, UFK, GROM\Polish, PLA,RACS,FFAA etc... as separated downloable packs, fully compatibile with each other.

Would be a dream...

Its already happening. Like said ACE2 makes it possible to create your own units etc and get it to work with ACEX. I have been beta testing a "little" *ahem* something that is being intergrated. :ok:

ACE team made ACE2 very modern and we thank them big time for that. :)

Alex

[anfiach]

Hope it makes you see what is wrong in current computergames.

Maybe this refers to previous posts but I don't understand what you mean with this statement following your article reference.

[Smurf]

Its already happening. Like said ACE2 makes it possible to create your own units etc and get it to work with ACEX. I have been beta testing a "little" *ahem* something that is being intergrated. :ok:

ACE team made ACE2 very modern and we thank them big time for that. :)

Alex

Fromz's OHMOD integrated in Ace2 its a known fact. Anything besides that will be a great surprise. :eek:

We must be thankful also to everybody that donated\made "minor" stuff, like single units\objects and weapons. Everything so far seems to be high quality stuff.

Looking forward to the release, and, if its release before holidays, I expect that the game don´t f***-up my final exams\tests. :p


Maybe this refers to previous posts but I don't understand what you mean with this statement following your article reference.

I think that is a sequence to this post: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1491903&postcount=1330

And other after it (before the bullets discussion).

[PogMoThoin]

I know its out when its ready but is there any sort of time-frame for the first release? Any chance it'll be out before christmas or are we talking about next year?

[CAS]

Maybe this refers to previous posts but I don't understand what you mean with this statement following your article reference.

Sorry I wanted to avoid repeating myself.

In all computer games today, including ARMA, you have an unrealistic handling of casualties. In Games your men either die instantly and are ignored and left behind for the rest of the battle, or they are injured, get completely "healed" on scene and continue to fight as if nothing happened.

Compare this to reality: Only few casualties die instantly (KIA meaning killed on battlefield or enroot to a doctor). Close to all casualties are evacuated as fast as possible to medical facility (including the dead). In my literature example the average time for a critical wounded to receive surgical care (at a field hospital) was only 30min. This includes the time it takes to get the casualty out of the danger zone, stabilise him, transport and admission to the hospital.

Handling of the casualties is an important thing for the progress of an operation. You need resources that cannot be used for fighting at the same time and you have to grant safety for the evacuation.

I don't write this as a BIS suggestion because I doubt BIS would risk to implement this kind of casualty handling because it has never before been done. I still have high hopes in the ACE team because of the big achievements they already did for the sake of a more realistic game play.

The task is:

1. Increase the number of WIA (wounded in action) to like 90%
2. WIA are either incapacitated or get a handicap
3. Handicaps can be bad aim, no stand etc. (we already have most of them in the game or in ACE1)
4. Medics only stabilise (they do not heal!)
5. Make it possible to transport all WIA and KIA (including those that can not walk) with other soldiers and in vehicles.
6. Because of the join in progress option it is possible to leave your WIA and rejoin as a new soldier.

In an ARMA mission this would mean after being hit you can continue to fight until you are incapacitated (instantly or because of blood loss).
As soon as you are out of trouble you would deliver your character to MEDEVAC and re spawn as a new soldier. In an "overrun" scenario you would continue to fight because there is no better option. Medics are used to stabilise wounded soldiers and keep the rate of soldiers KIA low. They could also perform triage and organize MEDEVAC.

[maturin]

Hope it makes you see what is wrong in current computergames.


I think I get wounded in Arma about ten times for every death. (If it's less, it's because of all the SP recklessness). I just unrealistically ignore the injuries or get them whisked away by a medic.

And our troops in Iraq are rarely in situations that compare to ridiculously dangerous Chernarus, outnumbered and without support.

[Rhodesy77]

thats all well and good if you want that, and if you have a large player base in that mission... here in aus our arma2 player base isnt what it is in the states, so its hard for us to get 40+ people in for one organised personal mission. which is what you would need to have a strong fighting force on the ground + transport/airsupport people doing their jobs, i think their should atleast be an option between something like the old ACE way, and the super duper uber realistic casuality system.

[TOTAL22]

thats all well and good if you want that, and if you have a large player base in that mission... here in aus our arma2 player base isnt what it is in the states, so its hard for us to get 40+ people in for one organised personal mission. which is what you would need to have a strong fighting force on the ground + transport/airsupport people doing their jobs, i think their should atleast be an option between something like the old ACE way, and the super duper uber realistic casuality system.

Perhaps, this can be chosen by the mission maker by placing a new ''Realistic Casualty System'' module object in the map or not.
Just like how the vanilla wound system can be chosen to be used or not by placing the module object or not.
This way, the scripts can be developed by ACE team if they choose to and mission makers can choose if they want to use the set of scripts by simply placing specific objects in their missions.

[Alex72]

@<hidden>
It was obviously not clear to everyone that ACEX will work this way since people thaught it would be great if it could be possible.

[anfiach]

Sorry I wanted to avoid repeating myself.

In all computer games today, including ARMA, you have an unrealistic handling of casualties. In Games your men either die instantly and are ignored and left behind for the rest of the battle, or they are injured, get completely "healed" on scene and continue to fight as if nothing happened.

Compare this to reality: Only few casualties die instantly (KIA meaning killed on battlefield or enroot to a doctor). Close to all casualties are evacuated as fast as possible to medical facility (including the dead). In my literature example the average time for a critical wounded to receive surgical care (at a field hospital) was only 30min. This includes the time it takes to get the casualty out of the danger zone, stabilise him, transport and admission to the hospital.

Handling of the casualties is an important thing for the progress of an operation. You need resources that cannot be used for fighting at the same time and you have to grant safety for the evacuation.

I don't write this as a BIS suggestion because I doubt BIS would risk to implement this kind of casualty handling because it has never before been done. I still have high hopes in the ACE team because of the big achievements they already did for the sake of a more realistic game play.

The task is:

1. Increase the number of WIA (wounded in action) to like 90%
2. WIA are either incapacitated or get a handicap
3. Handicaps can be bad aim, no stand etc. (we already have most of them in the game or in ACE1)
4. Medics only stabilise (they do not heal!)
5. Make it possible to transport all WIA and KIA (including those that can not walk) with other soldiers and in vehicles.
6. Because of the join in progress option it is possible to leave your WIA and rejoin as a new soldier.

In an ARMA mission this would mean after being hit you can continue to fight until you are incapacitated (instantly or because of blood loss).
As soon as you are out of trouble you would deliver your character to MEDEVAC and re spawn as a new soldier. In an "overrun" scenario you would continue to fight because there is no better option. Medics are used to stabilise wounded soldiers and keep the rate of soldiers KIA low. They could also perform triage and organize MEDEVAC.

Ah, I understand now, thank you. Yes that could be great fun, but I wouldn't label it as wrong to omit such features, simply a conscious design choice made to maximize the free time of players, thus boosting revenues for the developers.

Have to be careful with such studies as they tend not to include factors that make a huge impact on the results. I didn't read every word so I may have missed things but I saw no mention of shock, which is a major factor in the survival of wounded persons. The higher survival rates now as compared to past conflicts can be directly attributed to such training programs as the Army's Combat Life Saver program which ensures that all soldiers can provide immediate care, stabilizing them before transport. They also erroneously try to compare the results from completely different combat environments . Interesting nonetheless.

[fireship4]

#EDIT#: I forgot to clarify what the below actually is: it is the most recent ARMA2 beta changelog with some possibly relevant additions highlighted. Thanks sparks50.

[60260] Fixed: AI soldiers moving in Safe/Aware could sometimes be stuck near a bush or other objects.
[60234] New: Scripting function enableAIFeature to disable new AI features when old behaviour is required.
[60220] Improved: AI covering units tend to stay close to each other.
[60155] Fixed: MultiPlayer client crash caused by certain custom sound
[60129] Fixed: AI subordinates now move faster (use less cover) to catch up when leader is way ahead of them.
[60102] Fixed: AI subordinates should now respect formation more when moving in combat.
[60101] Fixed: Group leader was often running far ahead alone in combat.
[60092] Fixed: AI leader did not wait for a player to cover him when moving in combat.
[60090] Fixed: Improved vehicles and motorcycles driving.
[60068] New: Alt-Enter can be used to switch window/fullscreen while paused.
[60015] New: Execute action with LMB can be unmapped.
[60013] Fixed: Possible freeze under Vista/Win7 when Alt-Tabing out of the game during progress screen.
[59999] Fixed: Player is no more target when commanding in external view.
[59988] New: Windowed/Fullscreen can now be switched ingame (in Video options).
[59924] Fixed: More 32b overflows caused by 8 GB RAM + large VRAM.
[59906] Fixed: Most vehicle gunners did not provide suppressive fire.
[59899] Fixed: AI did not use suppressive fire against enemies seen while holding fire.
[59898] Fixed: Spatial explosions sounds
[59884] Fixed: Suppress in the commanding menu did nothing.
[59875] New: Suppressive fire against known enemies can be scripted using unit suppressFor time.
[59873] Fixed: After spawning new types of entities via script, game could randomly freeze or crash.
[59872] Fixed: Airplane, helicopter, car and ship control was lost while map was active.
[59808] Fixed: DOF in 3D scope view
[59741] Analogue throttle working for helicopters as well.
[59736] Fixed: Startup sounds are not spatial and stick to audio channels
[59715] Covering soldier in grass ("Grass layer")
[59691] Improved: Small hit be ignored by hitpoints (configurable by minimalHit)
[59668] Improved: Hitpoint can pass only a part of the hit to the total damage (passthrough setting no longer ignored).
[59446] New: IK weapon animations are now blending with primary animations.
[59351] Fixed: VoN direct speaking distance fade out
[59318] Fixed: support the highest Matrox TrippleHead2Go resolutions
[59279] Fixed: FPS on Dedicated server is not affected by server window manipulation (such as move or scroll).
[59088] Mouse lag can caused by GPU render ahead buffer be limited using GPU_MaxFramesAhead=N in ArmA2.cfg.
[59047] Fix: When player was a helicopter pilot, the AI gunner sometimes had no weapon selected on mission start
[59030] Fix: Helicopters - when manual fire on, do not allow AI gunner to switch weapons

[CAS]

I fully agree that the "no heal" feature should be optional.
I guess the casualties transport feature should work for everybody. (You do not have to use it)
For the original missions "no heal" has to be disabled. But custom missions could be written to work with few human players in MP or in SP. I would love to use such a feature in SP.

The linked article is a scientific work written by the doctors involved:

"Hypothesis: The transition from manoeuvre warfare to insurgency warfare has changed the mechanism and severity of combat wounds treated by US Marine Corps forward surgical units in Iraq."

I do not think the authors neglected any major factors. I picked out the results from the beginning of the war because this environment fits better to the kind of missions we tend to play in ARMA.

[RUDOLF]

Is first beta closing?

[Manzilla]

Wow, you sure like to prod.

[sparks50]

Is first beta closing?

The changelog he posted is the BI one for Arma 2, not for the ACE project.

The important thing is what he highlighted in red.

[Major Woody]

I wrote a little aticle in the STI Stryker Pack about passenger seats wich I think i quite relevant here as well since ACE are gonne release Strykers... :)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1496948&postcount=37

[Andersson[SWEC]]

A little something ive been thinking about...
If we cant have REALISTIC sizes of islands for instance..
How can we ask for realistic values of balistics and speed
and such..??

[sparks50]

I'm not sure how that at all relates to each other.

[Steakslim]

;1497028']A little something ive been thinking about...
If we cant have REALISTIC sizes of islands for instance..
How can we ask for realistic values of balistics and speed
and such..??

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention to this thread or not.

[Blueteamguy]

143 pages, this is definately going to be the most widely used mod in the history of arma 2, loving what you guys are doing so far, can't wait at all for release

[Slatts]

oh look it looks like hes asked nicely this time

[Kristian]

oh look it looks like hes asked nicely this time

yeah, I was expecting more like:

"omgz0mg iz out nao?!11 ok0x tellz iz out or nao not??11"

But seriously, this mod will be superb. So if I have understood correctly, Fromz PLA mod will be inclued? and will the strykers come in desert variant too? Also, will there be desert marines? :)

[sparks50]

Fromz PLA mod will be inclued?

No, I'm under the impression that Fromz will release a version of hes PLA that has been prepared to take good advantage of ACE 2.

So you have to run the two mods at the same time.

[scubaman3D]

No, I'm under the impression that Fromz will release a version of hes PLA that has been prepared to take good advantage of ACE 2.

So you have to run the two mods at the same time.

Just like ACEX - the PLA content has been termed ACEX-PLA

[Slatmes]

Love the mod, glad to see it in ArmA 2!:bounce3:

[MadPro119]

Cant wait till this mod comes out, by then ill have the game and will be ready for mods!

[Andersson[SWEC]]

Think like this then..

If 1 RL Km is X m ingame, how could we ask for realistic Tank Ammo Ballistics,
Speeds and other..

[fireship4]

Because when we are playing we dont act as if the world is out of scale (though it may well be) we just play it as if it is a small environment.

To change balistics, ranges etc. to suit this would be wrong I think, and would spoil the realism.

#EDIT To clarify I am in favour of making the weapons perform as close to reality as possible, and not scale them to the supposedly compromised environment we use them in.

[Evil_Echo]

Whose (A2, some mod, etc.) ballistics are 'wrong'? Just would like some details please.

[Nouty]

Yeah, a km in Arma 2 is a km. Realistic ballistics apply.

[Hamm]

;1497648']Think like this then..

If 1 RL Km is X m ingame, how could we ask for realistic Tank Ammo Ballistics,
Speeds and other..

One real KM is one KM ingame, it's just the battlespace is relatively small. If you're asking about how Chernarus couldn't be a country as it's that small, you only play in the south-eastern tip of Chernarus in-game, not the whole country.

[Manzilla]

Yup as far as I know 1km=1km in game. Not sure which ballistics he's taking about though. I always thought that the ballistics aren't too bad for a game. Especially the NWD_ballistics port.(Can't remember who did it at the moment, my apologies to you.) Of course they can always be better but I'm not sure what engine limitations there are. Obviously the ACE guys know a helluva a lot more about this then I do though. They can provide better feedback than I.

[TOTAL22]

Please include this in the mod!!! :yay:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=90826

[Trauma.au]

Please include this in the mod!!! :yay:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=90826

Thats a nice looking mod, I'm not a fan of the standard map either. Would be nice to see that or something similar in ACE.

[skooma]

Can't wait :thumbsup:

[Raptor13270]

Please include this in the mod!!! :yay:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=90826

That's a must add feature. :O

[Uglyboy]

You can just download it and use it with ACE what's the matter? :confused:

[NouberNou]

You can just download it and use it with ACE what's the matter? :confused:

Inclusion in ACE means that it will be part of a one stop shop to download and a lot of servers end up using vanilla ACE as a public addon because it is so popular. Things being included means that they can use them on a public server.

I am by no means advocating the inclusion of my addon, though it would be cool and an honor, just stating the reason why people would want things included.

[Uglyboy]

Inclusion in ACE means that it will be part of a one stop shop to download and a lot of servers end up using vanilla ACE as a public addon because it is so popular. Things being included means that they can use them on a public server.

I am by no means advocating the inclusion of my addon, though it would be cool and an honor, just stating the reason why people would want things included.

Of course :) But your addon isn't clientside only?

EDIT: btw i see no reason why your addon shouldn't be included in ACE just want to say that anyone can use it with it :p

[Inkompetent]

Doesn't matter if an addon is clientside or not. If a server is checking for addon signatures and doesn't have that map-addon in its list you can't connect.

I do agree that some kind of map tools would be handy to have in ACE. Either that, or something like Spooner's map tools for ArmA1. ^^

[Uglyboy]

Doesn't matter if an addon is clientside or not. If a server is checking for addon signatures and doesn't have that map-addon in its list you can't connect.

I do agree that some kind of map tools would be handy to have in ACE. Either that, or something like Spooner's map tools for ArmA1. ^^

Oh then i agree too :D Also the Spoon draw scripts would be nice, those really improved mission briefing and such. :yay:

[NouberNou]

Oh then i agree too :D Also the Spoon draw scripts would be nice, those really improved mission briefing and such. :yay:

Yea, I'd love to get Spoons stuff working in ArmA2...

I have a couple other big projects up my sleeve though...

[Alex72]

Agree with you guys. Drawing tools in ACE2 would be awesome. Maybe there already are plans for it though. ACE team usually knows what they are doing. :)

[Tonci87]

It would be a gift to be able to draw on the Map. But for now this Map plus Addons is great if you play on Veteran Difficulty

[Defunkt]

I would suggest that, whizzy as it is, the ability to share map drawings isn't actually all that desirable in a simulation, it's not like every platoon has a fax machine. I feel there is more immersion to be had from the requirement for clear and precise verbal communication.

[NouberNou]

I would suggest that, whizzy as it is, the ability to share map drawings isn't actually all that desirable in a simulation, it's not like every platoon has a fax machine. I feel there is more immersion to be had from the requirement for clear and precise verbal communication.

Any implementation of sharing lines I do will be based on distance from a person, so you have to crowd around a map, it'd be more like copying off of their maps.

[Panda_pl]

About the line drawings on map. Perhabs there should be 2 styles: one mode for hand drawn lines (markers) and second one with more symbology and straight lines/circles/arc and range markers that would be used by vehicle crews and would have simmilar functionality as the IRL communication systems, including instant sharing between vehicles.
Just my remark in case someone is serious about creating that.

Anyway... some raw meat (hipoly meshes. A lot of people think they are unnecessery and you can just draw the normal map and fake AO renders, but I just don't see it... ;) ).
Once you're at imageshack click on images to enlarge, they are quite big.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5900/wip6o.th.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/wip6o.jpg/)http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6513/wip7.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/i/wip7.jpg/)http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3556/wipo.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/wipo.jpg/)

[Uglyboy]

I thought you were working on the 416 of the A1 SIX pack but those seems fresh new to me :eek: awesome work as always :yay: keep the porn coming :yay:

EDIT: you really have only 19 post??

[Inkompetent]

Panda, I'll carry your child! :D

[jhoson14]

WoW

I'm in love :3. Awesome to know that this baby will be on ACE2.

Cant w8 to see when it get read, will kick ass!!Great job Panda ^^

[Uglyboy]

Panda, I'll carry your child! :D

And i'll feed him :D

:j:

[Trauma.au]

You can just download it and use it with ACE what's the matter? :confused:

Some servers will be ACE only and not allow any other addons.

[jasonnoguchi]

Also, the ingame interface looks soooooo freaky gamey and breaks the immersion created by the hyper-realistic environment. Please have a new and smaller interface for ACE2 like you guys did in ACE1. :)

[b00ce]

You do realize that you can turn the HUD off, right?

[jasonnoguchi]

Don't want it off... just want it not to affect gameplay and immersion.

[TOTAL22]

Don't want it off... just want it not to affect gameplay and immersion.

I don't see how the current interface affects the gameplay.
You do know you can change the interface sizes via the options, right?
Can you be more specific, only because I can't remember how it was in ACE1 :p

[jasonnoguchi]

Well, in ACE1, it was transparent background with small white words. not green boxes and stuff. I even find the new gear interface hard to use... still prefer the good old ArmA1 gear screen where nothing is unnecessarily transparent against green background making everything hard to see :(

[Alex72]

The HUD? What HUD? when i play there is nothing. When i reload i see a small thing up right, but it fades away as fast as it came in. The difficulty/settings can turn off/on basically everything. Pick and choose.

When you get into a vehicle it shows the weapon type, compass and the vehicle damage icon. That one could maybe be dealt with somehow. And maybe the radar. But they are kind of needed.

But its not some gamey HUD there - at least not to me - its totally clean. I play on veteran.

[Inkompetent]

Not to mention UI scale! Put it on Small or Very Small and you'll barely notice it's there unless you look for it!

[Evil_Echo]

The old ACE1 gear menu was dead on arrival as far as ArmA2 was concerned. By neccesity gear management is closely tied to the game engine and just too much had changed. It required close to a total rewrite for the new game and ACE2. Which is a major reason I've not talked much about it or even documented it on the BI wiki yet.

Right now the push is to make sure the ruck system works at all. That goal was pretty well reached aside from some polishing up here and there. The testers have not called for my head on a platter, so I take that as meaning they are largely happy.

As per the look, right now the new gear interface looks a lot like an extended version of the vanilla A2 version ( first make it work, then make it pretty ) with some things shifted about to make room for the new slots and actions. Don't count on transparent backgrounds for now - even the vanilla interface really has too much stuff in it to make it easy to see if the background lets too much scenery bleed through. Colors - that's another matter altogether.

I know you folks will be relieved to know rucks are on the way - even if OA may offer there own system eventually ( bet ours is better - :) ). For now though, try to keep the "ideas" and "suggestions" in your back pocket because I have a very full plate. There are some cool things coming for rucks beyond what was in ACE1 - let me finish those before asking for more.

[Alex72]

Dare i ask if you guys managed to make the tracers "glow"? As in 6th sense, and ACE1 tracers that did lit up the environment as they whizzed by. Im very curious as we havent seen that yet in ARMA2.

Surprise maybe? :)

[343rdBadger]

I'd like to know whats going on in the "Tank" area of the new ACE mod.I've always used it and was happy that the Russian Armour Pack always seemed to run well under it.Is this gonna be a problem in the upcomming release??:confused:I'd really like to keep it compatable.Can I get some feedback on this?

[fireship4]

And whether a proper FCS will be integrated. I really like the one released for arma, but I think there was some conflict with the ACE tank models and it wasnt used. Great mod though.

[bartkusa]

Isn't a ruck system coming with Operation Arrowhead?

[Inkompetent]

Well, we don't know when OA is coming, and the rucksack-code already existed since ACE1, with abit of need of improvement, polishing and adaptation to the new game :)

Far from as much of a burden as writing an entirely new system ^^

[Alex72]

Isn't a ruck system coming with Operation Arrowhead?

What parts of Evil Echos post didnt you get? It states clearly that OA has backpacks, and that ACE2 probably are better (more advanced i guess). LINK (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1499350&postcount=1464)

[rstratton]

What parts of Evil Echos post didnt you get? It states clearly that OA has backpacks, and that ACE2 probably are better (more advanced i guess). LINK (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1499350&postcount=1464)

i read that OA "may" eventually include them

[qawa1967]

can't wait the day of release !!! :bounce3:

Fantastic work !!!!

[Alex72]

i read that OA "may" eventually include them
They showed a video already with AI learned to pick up backpacks. ;)

Anyhoo, about the "lit-up tracers". Have you looked at that ACE team? Im just curious if it seem to be possible. :)

[Yokhanan]

Im just curious if it seem to be possible. :)

Should be after seeing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT4FUNNY0Xk

Towards the end you can see they lit up the ground, so I'm hoping they'll bring it back for AA2 as well. :)

[mr.g-c]

What parts of Evil Echos post didnt you get? It states clearly that OA has backpacks, and that ACE2 probably are better (more advanced i guess). LINK (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1499350&postcount=1464)

Hmm no one knows the system BIS will use, however in the video-interview with Jan Prazak about OA, there are 2 significant things I noticed which are in fact better than the ACE(2) System - of course only if i don't understood it wrong :D:

1. BIS seems to teach AI how to use the backpacks for resupply!
Dunno if that means just "own" resupply, if main inventory is empty, or if it will even going so far, that AI will support each other (group-members?) with ammo from their packs :eek:

2. You seem to be able to drop and pick up loaded backpacks, without all the content of it getting spawned all around the pack.
Modders would be able to do this already IF it would be possible to attach variables to weapons, see tickets: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/2014 and http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/2980

Who knows maybe OA will finally give those possibilities :)

[jasonnoguchi]

My honorable ACE team, please kindly consider my suggestions:

1. Sounds for opening and closing doors.
2. Make it possible that players may drop weapons when shot and injured. Currently, my weapons are nicely slung when I am injured which is really fake. The SLX guys made one mod which makes it possible that the enemy AI will drop weapon when injured. That should be in ACE too. :)
3. Proper working kollimator sights if it is possible.
4. Different movement sounds for different loadouts. Its really breaking to hear the same heavily geared sound when I am using a civilian with a gun and no other gears.
5. Realistic weapon sounds... so far, the sound mods available are close but not on the mark for some weapons reloading (in fact, some are using G36 reloading sounds for AK reloading! That springy sound at the end of the cocking is clear as hell G36 for people like me who has actually fired one before), explosion and AT sounds. Most sound mods are missing the hissing sound when the AT rockets fly towards the target (I know because I have fired a LAW before).
6. Anyway to make it so the soldier don't automatically lower weapons sometimes when kneeling?
7. Recoils feel amazingly low in A2. It was too much in A1... is there a realistic recoil data that can be used?
8. Radio chatter in vehicles.
9. Different running speeds on different loadouts... or is it already in the game? Don't think so but I seem to run slightly slower carrying MG... any confirmation?
10. View restriction wearing gas mask. When I was training with gas mask in the forces, I could hardly see the world outside due to limited FOV and condensation.
11. Different animation speeds like you did in ACE1.
12. Animation transition problem. We should not have to stop after sprinting in order to get back to a jog.
13. One quick button to drop the weapon we have on hand.
14. Melee. Close combat weapon that is lethal within 1m.
15. Random vehicle explosion characteristics. Its funny to see a row of tanks burning up the exact same way and end up with the exact same burnt textures.
16. MORE, MUCH MORE blood! thats a reality of war!
17. Make it possible for body parts hit by large caliber guns to break off! :)
18. Advanced wounding system. Make what you already have in ACE1 better by introducing limitations after first aid being applied. Slower speed or no running if hit in leg etc.
19. Make the AI module seperate for those of us who actually like the stock AI...hehehe...

[Inkompetent]

I can hop in quickly and comment the recoils. In ArmA2 one only modify recoil in the (muzzle's) vertical plane with the shoulder as attachment point for the weapon, around which it pivots. One can sure strive to make recoil feel as good as possible, but it will never become truly realistic since it'd require modding the game's binaries.

Also, running speeds are animation-controlled, and animations are rigid. It's an engine limitation that it isn't really feasable to get around as far as I know.

And gibs won't work afaik. It'd require entirely new models to replace the player model for each bit of limb removed. Hardly feasible to do, if realistically doable at all, and even then it wouldn't be combatible with any other existing unit mods or BIS units.

[jasonnoguchi]

^....

1. Recoils has been adjusted in various A1 mods so it is definitely possible.

2. Running speed has been adjusted in ACE1 and various other mods in A1, so I am sure its possible in A2 as well.

3. SLXmod already has gibs working. Go check it out.

[Inkompetent]

Only gibs I've seen in SLX are people getting totally vapourized, but I guess I might not have seen enough.

And yes, running speeds were adjusted in ACE, but they were under no circumstance adjusted on a loadout weight ratio. That's what the stamina was there for: to exhaust people quicker the more they carried, to prevent them from moving overly fast by penalizing an attempt in doing so.

And I didn't say recoils can't be changed. I say that we are limited to the muzzle's vertical plane, with the shoulder as pivotal point of the recoil, and that it limits how much one can alter the recoil.

[jhoson14]

Do you guys have any plan on converting ACE Island pack and releasing it with ACE2?

[Alex72]

Mr.G.C: You seem to be able to drop and pick up loaded backpacks, without all the content of it getting spawned all around the pack.
Actually this was possible in one of the ACE1 beta's as well. I remember it well when a mate played as a sniper and needed more ammo. He was on a hill and we had to go close by with our vehicle to get to our position. So i packed a bag at base and then dropped it in a bush close by to him. Nothing was scattered around the bag and he picked it up and headed back to the hill. Then another beta came i think and the gear scattered. Dont know what happened in the end as i didnt play the last ACE1 build.

But yeah, i cant wait to get backpacks again. It massively change the style of battles. And hopefully gear wont scatter. :)


Betsalel: Should be after seeing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT4FUNNY0Xk
Oh thanks mate. Will check that video when i get home. A2 would look even nicer at night with them. :)

[PuFu]

7. recoils:
A2 is different from A1 here. While values can be adjusted (and they have been for ACE2), in A1, you could tweak both vertical and horizontal jump of the gun. In A2, the horizontal is fixed, so you cannot have the effect in A1, where the recoil was visible and pushing into your avatars shoulder...

9. running speeds:
are pretty strict, and the values one can change are only the top speed. While sprinting starts from a high value and goes down towards a value that is less that jogging, for all the other movement modes, this cannot be done. Nor can that be linked to a weight system (being different based on loadout).

10. view restriction for gasmasks:
there is a video tpm posted where you can see this view restriction when gasmasks are on

for your 3/6/12 suggestions, those need to be fixed by BIS in the first place.

[mr.g-c]

Actually this was possible in one of the ACE1 beta's as well. I remember it well when a mate played as a sniper and needed more ammo. He was on a hill and we had to go close by with our vehicle to get to our position. So i packed a bag at base and then dropped it in a bush close by to him. Nothing was scattered around the bag and he picked it up and headed back to the hill. Then another beta came i think and the gear scattered. Dont know what happened in the end as i didnt play the last ACE1 build.

You are right, that was the old backpack system which used _pdm magazine classes of all ruckable "stuff". However it produced heavy lag on the Network, thats why it was replaced with a "scripted" backpack system.

And due to a lack of such scripting commands or the possibility to treat weapons in a different way, you can't properly script it (sadly). Thats why im also from a technical POV very interested how BIS will solve all those things - at the very least i hope they leave new features modable.... :D

[jasonnoguchi]

7. recoils:
A2 is different from A1 here. While values can be adjusted (and they have been for ACE2), in A1, you could tweak both vertical and horizontal jump of the gun. In A2, the horizontal is fixed, so you cannot have the effect in A1, where the recoil was visible and pushing into your avatars shoulder...

9. running speeds:
are pretty strict, and the values one can change are only the top speed. While sprinting starts from a high value and goes down towards a value that is less that jogging, for all the other movement modes, this cannot be done. Nor can that be linked to a weight system (being different based on loadout).

10. view restriction for gasmasks:
there is a video tpm posted where you can see this view restriction when gasmasks are on

for your 3/6/12 suggestions, those need to be fixed by BIS in the first place.

Thanks for reading and responding to my suggestions. :) EAGERLY await the mod that will end all mods... ACE2!

[LJF]

Yeah, gibbing in SLX works great.

[scubaman3D]

Its important to note that while I do appreciate the input Inko gives into this thread, he doesn't represent ACE in an official capacity.

That being said, we are aware that "gibbing" works, but we made the decision some months back, that we will not implement it as a feature.

[Inkompetent]

Yep. I'm not representing anything at all. Just trying to explain engine limitations and how it has been done in the past, or what we've been showed or got explained this far about ACE2. I'm very happy to be corrected in the cases I'm wrong. :)

[Evil_Echo]

My honorable ACE team, please kindly consider my suggestions:
....


You could honor the ACE team by reading what has already been written by others and watching the teaser videos before posting. Much of what you talk about has been answered many times before.

Gore effects will NOT be added to ACE. While it's part of war, all it is in a game is frame-eating eye-candy. Worse, a lot of immature people get their jollies watching body parts fly. The last thing ArmA people should want is kids giggling about gibs instead of working as a team. That would turn a fine combat sim into a lousy imitation of Mortal Kombat - plus alter the game's violence rating to unacceptable levels.

ACE2 has blood trails for wounded soldiers. That is it.

[Tonci87]

I have another suggestion: Could please someone make Scopes for the Canons like the D-30? i think they are already implemented, but restricted for the player. In this shape they are really unusefull. Especially the AI can´t hit shit with them, because they always aim above the Target (tested with Troopmon).

@<hidden> EvilEcho ViperMaul still hasn´t responded to the Pm I sent him

[Evil_Echo]

WRT - KIA soldiers dropping ruck intact and not scattering contents. Already working and polishing that code up even more.

The PDM/EUM stuff mr.g-c mentioned is long gone. As I said before, total rewrite of that feature.

[TOTAL22]

I think I'll shutup now and wait for christmas. :p

[Red_Barron]

1. BIS seems to teach AI how to use the backpacks for resupply!
Dunno if that means just "own" resupply, if main inventory is empty, or if it will even going so far, that AI will support each other (group-members?) with ammo from their packs :eek:

2. You seem to be able to drop and pick up loaded backpacks, without all the content of it getting spawned all around the pack.
Modders would be able to do this already IF it would be possible to attach variables to weapons, see tickets: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/2014 and http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/2980


I think BIS might be solving the problem by making the backpacks an ammo crate that you can carry on your back. if you "drop" the pack, you drop an ammo crate with the contents, and when you pick it up you get an item on your AT slot. If it is an ammo crate, then the AI should be able to resupply themselves from it without any additional scripting needed once the backpack is dropped. Of course some scripting would be required for getting the AI to drop the pack.

I have no idea if this is possible for the ACE team to do, but it might be a cool approach. Of course whatever they come up with should be good.

[Alex72]

Mr.G.C: However it produced heavy lag on the Network, thats why it was replaced with a "scripted" backpack system.
Ah so thats what it was. Thanks for the info. :)

ACE team:
You saw the youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT4FUNNY0Xk) on the lit-up tracers posted some page back? Third time im asking and im starting to feel annoying towards you guys. Sorry lol. But is it something your looking into? Thinking of that it was part of ACE1.

Dont know why this has become such of an obsession to me lately... :)

[Smurf]

7. recoils:
A2 is different from A1 here. While values can be adjusted (and they have been for ACE2), in A1, you could tweak both vertical and horizontal jump of the gun. In A2, the horizontal is fixed, so you cannot have the effect in A1, where the recoil was visible and pushing into your avatars shoulder...


Sad... that was really nice.
No word about changing this by BIS, right?

Keep on the good job, hope thats not release before my final exams....

[PuFu]

@<hidden>: to stop you from spamming those forums - no promise (call it official answer)

[maturin]

ACE must add a ton of new key bindings. Using this laptop keyboard minus a numpad I can zoom the map in and out or access the iron sights button. ACE won't add more features my curtailed keyboard can't access, will it?

[Minoza]

@<hidden>

Truth is I've never seen real tracers, only footage on youtube. But still, the ones shown in that video look maybe a little bit overdone, don't you think?

@<hidden> team

Also, I'm not sure what the final result on those new weapons will be (and I admire your work, I'm a 3d modeler/texturer...) but what I've noticed from screens is they all look like brand new out of boxes... No dirt on textures, no damage, or am I wrong?

I mean I'm talking about screens with that big sniper rifle and that grenade launcher with desert texture, they all look too ''new'' to me... But maybe I'm wrong... Please correct me if I am....

And please don't get me wrong, I know you're doing hard work, your achievements speak for themselves!

[jasonnoguchi]

I have used real tracers in RL before and no, they don't light up its surrounding. Maybe it does a little bit but at most like what a firefly do around maybe 10cm around it?

[b00ce]

I have another suggestion: Could please someone make Scopes for the Canons like the D-30? i think they are already implemented, but restricted for the player. In this shape they are really unusefull. Especially the AI can´t hit shit with them, because they always aim above the Target (tested with Troopmon).

@<hidden> EvilEcho ViperMaul still hasn´t responded to the Pm I sent him

There is a scope on those. Hit the zero key on the number pad. ;)

[jhoson14]

ACE2 has blood trails for wounded soldiers. That is it.

So if a body stay for so long in a place it will eventualy make a very small pool of blood? :confused:

[a wild goat]

ACE2 must include tea parties. This is the only thing that stopped ACE1 from being perfect