A.C.E. Advanced Combat Environment Mod 2

[Alex72]

Personally i also think blurring when tired would be good. Would be maybe a little better than blackout as you can at least see something moving around you - but not really see what it is since your so out of focus, breathing extremely heavy and worn down.

I didnt mind the blacking out as i understood why it happened, and it was something you had to be sure to avoid by not running like an idiot or carrying a shitload of gear. Simple. But i remember in ArmA already i thaught "hey if this could be blurred instead that would be nice!". Now the ability to blur excists. :)

Maybe blur plus that fatigue LSD thingy? Slight and not overdone. There is some experimenting that can be done in ARMA2. :)

[wheres my rabbit ?]

blurry screen would indeed be a better solution and if theres was little pinpoints of light floating around the screen (seeing stars) that would really good. no idea how or if that could be done tho

[Angle]

round and round we go...

So its easy to tear something down based on your personal taste, but it more difficult to suggest a better idea. How to you convey to the player that they absolutely need to stop and rest?

It reminds me of my wife, who can always tell me what she doesn't want to do...but can never give me a better alternative. ;)


is it so difficult to envision a alternative solution to blacking out? Use the same effect as when you get injured. Force the player to crawl around for a while.

When you are really tired you stumble and fall a lot. But you generally don't blackout unless you have diet issues.

EDIT: Well actually i distinctly remember a time when i had broken some ribs and had to run like a 100m to catch the bus. i got halfway before i blacked out from oxygen deprivation and had to sit down for like 5 minutes.

[Alex72]

"is it so hard?"

Do you know what a big work these guys are doing and sharing with us for FREE? No need for wiseguy manners.

There is options being discussed here on how to do it. Feel free to join in, but please keep that sour tone out of here.

[MattXR]

is it so hard?

Well if its so easy lets see you give it a go and get a concept working ingame for people to use.

anyways off all this, i just looked over all the ACE II screenshots and videos and i must say i am very very excited for the released product. It all looks great and when release comes around ill be a very excited puppy :P

[Angle]

Do you know what a big work these guys are doing and sharing with us for FREE? No need for wiseguy manners.

There is options being discussed here on how to do it. Feel free to join in, but please keep that sour tone out of here.

Its absolutely free for you all to ignore me as well. And my suggestion was absolutely free too.

And excuse me if my somewhat inadequate English makes it difficult for me to properly express my opinions without insulting people. Or making me appear as a "Wiseguy". That whas an incomplete sentence.

[Fincuan]

For reference, I finally found the post where someone measured the movement speeds. No need to go for the "it feels like this and that"-argument anymore

The speeds clocked:
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-assault-tactics-missions-mod-discussions/132953-ace-wish-list-8.html#post1235138

A US Army officer comments on that:
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-assault-tactics-missions-mod-discussions/132953-ace-wish-list-8.html#post1235200

Guess what, I agree with him. Anyone can do that on or off the track without gear, but those kind of movement speeds achieved in the field, in combat with the appropriate amount of gear, would be blazing fast.

[SUBS17]

Actually, soldiers pushing their limits black out quite often IRL

No they don't especially not when they're being shot at.:cool:
If a person Blacks out whenever they push themselves then they are not fit enough to be there the level of exertion in Arma that the players character experiences is not extreme enough to make that happen IRL what would happen is you would throw up and then gain a 2nd wind for an extra 4-5kms and then start to run slower. If you don't believe me then watch the end of Black Hawk down they were being chased some guys threw up but no one blacked out. One possible cause of a person collapsing could be due to dehydration or heat exhaustion but not through running.

[mlenser]

A lot of us have turned post processing off for better frame rates - would that effect the use of blurring the screen or can it be done with it turned off?

[PuFu]

A lot of us have turned post processing off for better frame rates - would that effect the use of blurring the screen or can it be done with it turned off?
no relation with your own settings, so it can be done even if you have it turned off

[PogMoThoin]

Whens this going to be ready? How far off are we?

[sparks50]

I'm pretty sure they said "when its done":j:

[bartkusa]

If you turn on post-proc, the game already has panting breath sounds, reduced accuracy, and slight blur as you exert yourself.

Blur is good, because it means if you choose to run fast, you're less aware of your surroundings and spotting contacts.

Also, it sounds like ACE blacked you out, with no middle ground. Instead, a fade to black provides are more nuanced feedback mechanism. This is easily done with the post-proc commands in ArmA2.

[Uglyboy]

Also, it sounds like ACE blacked you out, with no middle ground. Instead, a fade to black provides are more nuanced feedback mechanism. This is easily done with the post-proc commands in ArmA2.

In ACE1:
Sprinting
a) Start to breath deep
b) you start to breath deep and very loud ( even if some say that they don't ear anything )
c) very short black out
d) ~1 sec black out increasingly
and so on.. until you fall down exausted

[Lhowon]

round and round we go...

So its easy to tear something down based on your personal taste, but it more difficult to suggest a better idea. How to you convey to the player that they absolutely need to stop and rest?

It reminds me of my wife, who can always tell me what she doesn't want to do...but can never give me a better alternative. ;)

Based on personal taste? Giving good reasons why blacking out from being tired is unrealistic isn't based on personal taste, it's based on reality.

Since you asked: A combination of sway and increased head-bob (if that's possible), slowing down, post-processing blur effects, and heavy breathing would all be a massive improvement over blacking out.

[SuperRat]

i am assuming there wont be crosshair in ACE2 ?

[Uglyboy]

i am assuming there wont be crosshair in ACE2 ?

I think they will leave this to be difficult level related, as it was in ACE1 and in the default ArmA series.


Based on personal taste? Giving good reasons why blacking out from being tired is unrealistic isn't based on personal taste, it's based on reality.

I think they did it that way in Arma 1 also because there weren't many option on how to simulate "being tired" that not implied a huge amount of scripting, if you ask me the black out effect is a compromise, a good one afterall, but i'm pretty sure they will rely on postprocessing effect this time, i can't speak for the ACE team tho :P

[Kr3v]

I think that ACE developers are horrible creatures from the hell. They are turning our favorite game into the best game ever, with screens, videos and wiki but don't tell us a date. It's horrible guys, we killed 107 dogs, 73 childrens and 82 admins, you know it's bad. Give us an alpha in order to save the world! :D

[MattXR]

Im pretty sure the ACE guys know what there doing with the fatigue system.

Also stop asking "when" becuase all these guys work in there spare time, they have no deadlines so they finish there work when they have "spare" time free and that differs so they wont no when release will be except when everything is finished.

[Kr3v]

Also stop asking "when" becuase all these guys work in there spare time, they have no deadlines so they finish there work when they have "spare" time free and that differs so they wont no when release will be except when everything is finished.

Of course. But when you can have a belgium beer instead of a basic beer, you will ask for it. It's the same here, the better version is asked for, everybody want it, it's a precious addon. ACE 2 should be programmed without telling us it's existing. Everybody is thinking of the ACE addon. I stopped editing some missions while looking at the ACE features because this addon enlarges the possibilities Arma offers.

[Manzilla]

Obviously all who are excited for ACE2 want to see it released but a release date, eta or even a thought about it is pointless. They cause more problems and that's when the true babies of the community make themselves heard. Just check the A1 ACE thread(s). The best thing to do is just live with the fact that these guys work on their own time, free of charge, an act of charity more or less. They all know what they are doing and when it is finally released any wait will be forgotten about immediately.

This is a group of guys that the community is lucky to have. They pump out great stuff, they put up with a ton of shit and they like to share what they are working on in the form of pics, videos, etc. To be honest, I enjoy the random updates and the wait is well worth the end product; many around these forums agree. That said, if it's difficult for you to see the news but not know a release date just leave this thread be. That worked for a lot of people with the A1 version.

[Muahaha]

Obviously all who are excited for ACE2 want to see it released but a release date, eta or even a thought about it is pointless. They cause more problems and that's when the true babies of the community make themselves heard. Just check the A1 ACE thread(s). The best thing to do is just live with the fact that these guys work on their own time, free of charge, an act of charity more or less. They all know what they are doing and when it is finally released any wait will be forgotten about immediately.

This is a group of guys that the community is lucky to have. They pump out great stuff, they put up with a ton of shit and they like to share what they are working on in the form of pics, videos, etc. To be honest, I enjoy the random updates and the wait is well worth the end product; many around these forums agree. That said, if it's difficult for you to see the news but not know a release date just leave this thread be. That worked for a lot of people with the A1 version.


Well said. Agreed.

[Trauma.au]

round and round we go...

So its easy to tear something down based on your personal taste, but it more difficult to suggest a better idea. How to you convey to the player that they absolutely need to stop and rest?

It reminds me of my wife, who can always tell me what she doesn't want to do...but can never give me a better alternative. ;)

I like most hated this feature and I personally love realistic games, but I also understand that no game can ever be realistic, so don't try to be, the most important thing in games aiming for realism is the balance between authenticity and playability.

You simply cannot effectively and convincingly convey physical and emotional effects on a person sitting at a desk interfacing with a program via a screen, keyboard, mouse, joystick, controller etc.

Having the player black out and fall to the ground effectively shuts your game down for the sake of attempting realism, this is a great example of breaking the balance between playability and authenticity, being blacked out on the ground unable to act is not fun at all, and in an unforgiving game where your efforts can be dashed with one round from some random bush this can be extremely annoying.

Telling a player that he can't go on because he is too tired will always be annoying because the player can't relate to it at the time and it is simply not entertaining.

Simply toning the effect down will fix it most of the time, so your soldier takes on the traits of an Olympic athlete, at least it's fun for all concerned.

I suggest that you allow soldiers to run a fair way with a heavy load, still have the weight carried be a factor, but allow ppl to move much further before slowing down dramatically and having a high amount of weapon sway, also blacking out is just a bad feature, get rid of it imo and reduce the effect of crouching/standing up on the players stamina and increase the amount of consistent suppressive fire needed to affect aiming and if possible make it so your own shots cannot cause a suppressive fire effect on yourself.

Subtlety is key.

[NoRailgunner]

round and round we go...
So its easy to tear something down based on your personal taste, but it more difficult to suggest a better idea. How to you convey to the player that they absolutely need to stop and rest?

Just a idea - let the players unit do a little swearing against the player something like: "Damn it, I take a rest - now!", "Hey man, there are no super-bots here in ACE2!" or "Someday I will control you..." ;)
Could be good to make that fatigue/expiration feature optional or at least adjustable for mission designers.

[anfiach]

No they don't especially not when they're being shot at.:cool:
If a person Blacks out whenever they push themselves then they are not fit enough to be there the level of exertion in Arma that the players character experiences is not extreme enough to make that happen IRL what would happen is you would throw up and then gain a 2nd wind for an extra 4-5kms and then start to run slower. If you don't believe me then watch the end of Black Hawk down they were being chased some guys threw up but no one blacked out. One possible cause of a person collapsing could be due to dehydration or heat exhaustion but not through running.
Errm, Subs, I am a combat vet and I know quite well what happens.

Your reference to BHD is invalid because a) Those guys were Rangers and Delta who train beyond what average soldiers do (excepting those that take it upon themselves to train on their own time instead of drinking) and b) they were not carrying full combat loads. Oh, and c) it was a movie, so unless you are going to demand ACE2 recreate The Matrix let's deal with real world examples.

The same individual can be affected differently depending on the circumstances as well. To give you an example from my own experiences: Once I was caught in an open area and a tracer round passed within six inches of my face, I was not affected by this at all, conversely another time, I was riding in the hatch of an armored vehicle. We were engaged and my weapon failed due to faulty ammunition. Although we had not come under accurate fire at the time, my blood went cold and it took a tremendous force of will not to jump out and run away screaming. Never felt that way before or since, but it happened. I've seen battle a hardened guy inexplicably faint at the mere mention of contact and I've seen guys pass out, never being remotely near exhaustion. I once watched a guy, an athlete no less, pitch over face first into cement while on a march and the only thing that had changed was he stretched his arms above his head.

The game cannot create for you a sense of the physiological and psychological experiences of your soldier but this is what ACE2 attempts to do. The difference being, these affects do not come unexpectedly and you are able to avoid them entirely. Perhaps the parameters could be adjusted somewhat (we won't know until we actually get to play it), maybe the effect could even vary slightly from soldier to soldier (to simulate varying degrees of health/fitness), but to say that it shouldn't happen at all is naive. There are a lot of factors that can contribute to an individual blacking out and in the end, they have to work within the limitations of the game.

[scubaman3D]

...and in an unforgiving game where your efforts can be dashed with one round from some random bush this can be extremely annoying.

Simply toning the effect down will fix it most of the time, so your soldier takes on the traits of an Olympic athlete, at least it's fun for all concerned.

I suggest that you allow soldiers to run a fair way with a heavy load, still have the weight carried be a factor, but allow ppl to move much further before slowing down dramatically and having a high amount of weapon sway, also blacking out is just a bad feature, get rid of it imo.

I hope you aren't suggesting that 1 shot should not be able to kill the player. But in any case, the wounding system in ACE makes the game more forgiving. In stark contrast to A1/ACE, playing ArmA2 in MP was far more frustrating from a wounding standpoint.

In addition, I can think of so few times in my MP play experience with ACE/shacktack when I fell down unconscious. You know why? We don't carry too much gear and we rest at regular intervals when marching. The times I did black out where when I was carrying a very heavy loadout and marching up a hill and refusing to rest - since, as you said, I am only sitting in a chair at my computer.

Fact is, a feature like this forces the player to change the way the game must be successfully played - and this is exactly what we wanted. We understand that not everybody will like this and not everybody has to. Those who do not like the style of gameplay that ACE affords, simply do not have to play it.

[Tonci87]

Good Answer. Haven´t played ACE 1 but i´m curious to experience the way the game has to be played with ACE2

[Thirdup]

Those who do not like the style of gameplay that ACE affords, simply do not have to play it.

Not entirely true. We simply disabled your "stamina" system in the previous ACE.

Your efforts with ACE2 will obviously reach more players if you allow (at least the server admis) the ability to toggle certain "reality" features. The attitude of "you'll play the way we want you to play, or you won't play at all" only caters to the elitists.

ACE2 could be something that that the entire ArmA2 community can enjoy....or it can be something for only the reality fanatics. I really hope the ACE team has a wider vision and is willing to accommodate more than one type of gameplay.

[JuggernautOfWar]

I'm a "reality fanatic" as you put it, so I'm fine with it. :) Although I've never blacked out BEFORE I fell down from running too long, even with 170 lbs of gear.

[Evil_Echo]

Explain to me how anyone who has not even tried the new stamina system has the right to flame ACE2. Several team members who know a lot more about the details have tried to be extremely patient in explaining that the stamina system has been rewritten, retuned, etc.

Yet a number of posters here continue to drag out ACE1 issues as reason to flame away, make accusations of elitism, document attempts to cripple the mod, etc.

The reason a number of developers have stopped posting here is because they are fed up with the BS. How many more do you want to drive off?

No one in ACE is expecting to be worshipped. We know our shortcomings in the past and trying really hard to deliver a quality ArmA2 product. Tearing it down before it's even out does nothing to help the project.

This talk of "customizing" the package via file removal needs to end as well. You have no idea of what interconnects exist in the new system. If a feature can be disabled then an option to do so will be provided.

After you try ACE2 then you have fair reason to criticize us if we screwed up. We'll try to fix it if something comes up. If you still hate ACE2 after that then it's best not to use it at all.

[Yokhanan]

Explain to me how anyone who has not even tried the new stamina system has the right to flame ACE2. Several team members who know a lot more about the details have tried to be extremely patient in explaining that the stamina system has been rewritten, retuned, etc.

Yet a number of posters here continue to drag out ACE1 issues as reason to flame away, make accusations of elitism, document attempts to cripple the mod, etc.

The reason a number of developers have stopped posting here is because they are fed up with the BS. How many more do you want to drive off?

No one in ACE is expecting to be worshipped. We know our shortcomings in the past and trying really hard to deliver a quality ArmA2 product. Tearing it down before it's even out does nothing to help the project


:yeahthat: Amen!

[Thirdup]

I'm certainly not flaming ACE2. Nor am I critisizing it. I simply expressed hope that you guys are making it a bit flexible so it can be enjoyed by a larger number of players.

[SUBS17]

Errm, Subs, I am a combat vet and I know quite well what happens.

Your reference to BHD is invalid because a) Those guys were Rangers and Delta who train beyond what average soldiers do (excepting those that take it upon themselves to train on their own time instead of drinking) and b) they were not carrying full combat loads. Oh, and c) it was a movie, so unless you are going to demand ACE2 recreate The Matrix let's deal with real world examples.

The same individual can be affected differently depending on the circumstances as well. To give you an example from my own experiences: Once I was caught in an open area and a tracer round passed within six inches of my face, I was not affected by this at all, conversely another time, I was riding in the hatch of an armored vehicle. We were engaged and my weapon failed due to faulty ammunition. Although we had not come under accurate fire at the time, my blood went cold and it took a tremendous force of will not to jump out and run away screaming. Never felt that way before or since, but it happened. I've seen battle a hardened guy inexplicably faint at the mere mention of contact and I've seen guys pass out, never being remotely near exhaustion. I once watched a guy, an athlete no less, pitch over face first into cement while on a march and the only thing that had changed was he stretched his arms above his head.

The game cannot create for you a sense of the physiological and psychological experiences of your soldier but this is what ACE2 attempts to do. The difference being, these affects do not come unexpectedly and you are able to avoid them entirely. Perhaps the parameters could be adjusted somewhat (we won't know until we actually get to play it), maybe the effect could even vary slightly from soldier to soldier (to simulate varying degrees of health/fitness), but to say that it shouldn't happen at all is naive. There are a lot of factors that can contribute to an individual blacking out and in the end, they have to work within the limitations of the game.

IRL people do not black out because of running 50m nor do they blackout after running 10km. Its an overexagerated effect based on unrealistic fitness performance. IRL a soldiers fitness prior to going to war or any other type of deployment must be at a good level. The pschological aspects can be recreated in a game but its not done by this method. I used BHD as an example as that movie is based on a book which was a true story especially the end where the soldiers were running and being harrassed by the bad guys. Other things to consider are that all the character classes are of an unfit level especially the SF class. As an example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_Two_Zero
I don't see anyone blacking out in this video either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L9nzk3co-M&feature=related

Although the effect of fitness in Arma is good the best I think is OFP as that had a limit as to how far you could push yourself. Ideally I would agree on a limit based on where your breathing rate is increased which effects your aim. You could go as far as falling over but I don't think black outs should be modeled as it simply does not happen from the running itself nor is it because you are carrying heavy weight normally its because a person is dehydrated or has heat exhaustion which can be prevented by fluid intake.:cool:
Just remember the effect we are talking about here is not what was going through your mind when a tracer flew past you its about fitness. As I mentioned there are other ways to model such effects in a game but this is not one of them. Also for ACE modellers note the above video the M72 was carried in the top of the bergen and had to be removed from the pack to use. Also small items like bandages, morphine maps etc aren't carried in ammo pouches so shouldn't take up space in the webbing.
Heres what I was talking about from BHD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lODIwbJA7MY&feature=PlayList&p=CC31EFEC908DAEA8&index=14

[jhoson14]

Guys stop complaning about the BlackOut.

The Devteam already sayd that a new system will come with ACE2.

W8 the mod to come out to see how it works and after that start arging if you dont like.

This is a ACE2 Discussion Thread not ACE1.

[SUBS17]

Explain to me how anyone who has not even tried the new stamina system has the right to flame ACE2. Several team members who know a lot more about the details have tried to be extremely patient in explaining that the stamina system has been rewritten, retuned, etc.

Yet a number of posters here continue to drag out ACE1 issues as reason to flame away, make accusations of elitism, document attempts to cripple the mod, etc.

The reason a number of developers have stopped posting here is because they are fed up with the BS. How many more do you want to drive off?


After you try ACE2 then you have fair reason to criticize us if we screwed up. We'll try to fix it if something comes up. If you still hate ACE2 after that then it's best not to use it at all.

This isn't about flaming anyone this is about suggesting how to make the most realsitic FPS even more realistic and I think the topic can be discussed without upsetting anyone.

[PuFu]

This isn't about flaming anyone this is about suggesting how to make the most realsitic FPS even more realistic and I think the topic can be discussed without upsetting anyone.
That is IF you stay on topic...

And also can be discussed and some things can be asked/proposed, if some good sense is used: inform yourself a bit before requesting stuff that cannot be done (increased head-blob for instance), or that would break more than solve.

I know comparison with ACE1 is imminent, but please try and understand:
1. ArmA2 has some more commands and features to work on with (comparing with ArmA1 for instance)
2. ArmA2 still has some limitations in certain areas that you need to be aware of
3. in the end, it will be done as ACE dev team sees fit, no matter how many complains you put here - i guess you can say we know better somewhat, and by no means we are trying to screw it up for some weird reason.
4. feel free to do a proof-of-concept script/system/addon if you feel something needs to be done differently, and submit it. I am sure it will be looked over and annalyzed/compared.

Evil_Echo has said everything there was to be said on this subject anyways

[Cionara]

It's a game, like ACE 2 can not give you the effect of turning your head in real life and looking the same spot ingame. For that you need TrackIR or Freetrack.
With blackout I think is the same. Use a brick falling on your head instead of claiming it should be modded. Yo can't have that effect ingame ^^

[stebbi92]

I hope you aren't suggesting that 1 shot should not be able to kill the player. But in any case, the wounding system in ACE makes the game more forgiving. In stark contrast to A1/ACE, playing ArmA2 in MP was far more frustrating from a wounding standpoint.

In addition, I can think of so few times in my MP play experience with ACE/shacktack when I fell down unconscious. You know why? We don't carry too much gear and we rest at regular intervals when marching. The times I did black out where when I was carrying a very heavy loadout and marching up a hill and refusing to rest - since, as you said, I am only sitting in a chair at my computer.

Fact is, a feature like this forces the player to change the way the game must be successfully played - and this is exactly what we wanted. We understand that not everybody will like this and not everybody has to. Those who do not like the style of gameplay that ACE affords, simply do not have to play it.

I was one of few who loved this feature, because of this, i had to organize my loadout, carry only what i had to while other players were complaining when they couldn't take their Barrett with a full mag load and run. In my opinion this balanced the game a lot, and improved teamwork, as i often asked my teammates to carry extra rockets/ammo when i was at my limit.

[Hitman07]

When does this come out? A release date on it? or is it "when its done"

[colossus]

or is it "when its done"
Yes :)

[Delta 51]

subs, give it a rest, like jhonson said this is an ACE2 discussion thread and until it is released, it is a complete waste of time arguing and offering suggestions till you have actually played the next mod sufficiently to justify any problems.

[SUBS17]

That is IF you stay on topic...

And also can be discussed and some things can be asked/proposed, if some good sense is used: inform yourself a bit before requesting stuff that cannot be done (increased head-blob for instance), or that would break more than solve.

I know comparison with ACE1 is imminent, but please try and understand:
1. ArmA2 has some more commands and features to work on with (comparing with ArmA1 for instance)
2. ArmA2 still has some limitations in certain areas that you need to be aware of
3. in the end, it will be done as ACE dev team sees fit, no matter how many complains you put here - i guess you can say we know better somewhat, and by no means we are trying to screw it up for some weird reason.
4. feel free to do a proof-of-concept script/system/addon if you feel something needs to be done differently, and submit it. I am sure it will be looked over and annalyzed/compared.

Evil_Echo has said everything there was to be said on this subject anyways

My opinion is based on my own observations I look forward to ACE2 as it'll be interesting to see just how much further such features can be modeled and compared to real life. The ace team has done an awesome job with Ace for Arma and my comments about that fitness are merely areas that could be improved on. If you don't believe me about the Black outs then put some boots on yourself and go for a run put a pack on and see for yourself you would be surprised I think.

[scubaman3D]

... i often asked my teammates to carry extra rockets/ammo when i was at my limit.

Thank you for the comments, as this is exactly what we wanted to happen. Players are forced to depend on each other now. The machine gunner needs teammates to carry extra ammo, the AT gunner needs people to carry extra rockets, and so on.

In addition, since resources are more limited, this forces the player to mind their inventory and not run their ar's on full-auto all the time. And its important to share as well. As a medic, I might often hand out my extra mags to other players and there is sharing among fireteams as well.

[Defunkt]

I don't see anybody complaining about the intent only the implementation. There is a point where a feature is just not worth having if the engine won't allow it to be implemented appropriately, making characters blackout to enforce exhaustion is not appropriate. Thankfully there are better options in ArmA II, this discussion would be better served and end a lot quicker by talking about what can be done now rather than bagging/defending what was done before.

[Hitman07]

It will prob come out Nov or Dec 2009

[scubaman3D]

... this discussion would be better served and end a lot quicker by talking about what can be done now rather than bagging/defending what was done before.


This discussion would be better served if individuals would read what's already been written on the subject. It would end a lot quicker if random people where were not previously involved in the discussion wouldn't do a drive by "shit on ACE mod feature x", with total disregard about whether or not they're just rehashing the same point over again - much like what you've done.

And the fact is that some people do have complaints about the intent. You're trying to tell me that nobody out there likes to lone-wolf in MP, and that the community is devoid of run-and-gunners? But wait, don't even respond to this question because in my mind, we can sum this discussion up by what pufu said :


3. in the end, it will be done as ACE dev team sees fit, no matter how many complains you put here - i guess you can say we know better somewhat, and by no means we are trying to screw it up for some weird reason.

A couple pages back, people actually had constructive criticism and good alternate ideas but now, you're right, I've only wasted precious moments responding to your post.

[Lhowon]

No offence but you're coming across as unnecessarily defensive. What is so hard to take about a simple criticism of a feature? Nobody here is "shitting" on any ACE feature, quite the opposite - we care enough about the mod to want to improve it.

We're your friends in this, we love ACE and want it to be the best it can be. Pointing out what we see as failings in the original is one of the best ways of identifying the areas most in need of improvement.

Yet instead of simply saying "there won't be blacking-out in ACE 2, we're looking at X instead" you get angry at anyone bring up the topic.

[Pegasus7]

To the guys that never played ArmA and ACE1.
Why do you even post here.

[Alex72]

Like Scubaman & co said already - they dont have to tell us shit if they dont want to. Its their mod and we should be damn thankful to get all that work for free to play with. Cant believe some of you actually "telling" ACE team what to do, and telling them to come here and have certain answers for us, and to change this and that... Did any of you pay for ACE? We all get a huge mod with years of work put in it for free.

Just by reading the feature list you can see that they added blurring to a lot of different events since ARMA2 have new effects to play with. They dont have to blackout anymore unless they want to ofcourse. Even if they do go with blackouts it will still be more realistic than how it is in stock ARMA wich is that you can run and run and run and run and... And it is still their decision. Not ours that doesnt work with the mod.

We have given our points of views on this matter. Ok some of us have and some just bitch, but what we can do now is to wait for it to come out - test it and go from there. No need in talking about this anymore unless someone comes up with a superb idea and can share it in an informative way.

[NoRailgunner]

Cross fingers that ACE2-AI will use most of the ACE2-features too. Btw what about some "info-food" like a teaser or a mp/coop-ingame vid? Would be interesting + good to see/hear ACE2 devs in combat. :)

[Gungoren]

i loved ace1 in arma1. im sure that ace2 in arma2 will be perfect. you guys great! keep us updated with progress please. i never played arma1 with ace1 online. im really excited for trying it on mp.

[markushaze]

Just my 2 c.
A big THANX to the devs of ACE 2 and ACE X.

Very impressive.

We as community should not take this for granted, and bitch around. Giving suggestions is fine, but do it with respect!

pleas stay respectful.

The devs of ACE are working on this in their free time, and so are sacrificing a part of their life FOR US. Of course they have fun doing it, but its still a lot of work.

man that's just great.

Pleas keep up the good work, ill be gladly waiting until its released, This is going to be fantastic, and includes all that i am missing on the Ultimate Military Simulation .

thanx Ace

[anfiach]

IRL people do not black out because of running 50m nor do they blackout after running 10km. Its an overexagerated effect based on unrealistic fitness performance. IRL a soldiers fitness prior to going to war or any other type of deployment must be at a good level. The pschological aspects can be recreated in a game but its not done by this method. I used BHD as an example as that movie is based on a book which was a true story especially the end where the soldiers were running and being harrassed by the bad guys. Other things to consider are that all the character classes are of an unfit level especially the SF class. As an example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_Two_Zero
I don't see anyone blacking out in this video either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L9nzk3co-M&feature=related

Although the effect of fitness in Arma is good the best I think is OFP as that had a limit as to how far you could push yourself. Ideally I would agree on a limit based on where your breathing rate is increased which effects your aim. You could go as far as falling over but I don't think black outs should be modeled as it simply does not happen from the running itself nor is it because you are carrying heavy weight normally its because a person is dehydrated or has heat exhaustion which can be prevented by fluid intake.:cool:
Just remember the effect we are talking about here is not what was going through your mind when a tracer flew past you its about fitness. As I mentioned there are other ways to model such effects in a game but this is not one of them. Also for ACE modellers note the above video the M72 was carried in the top of the bergen and had to be removed from the pack to use. Also small items like bandages, morphine maps etc aren't carried in ammo pouches so shouldn't take up space in the webbing.
Heres what I was talking about from BHD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lODIwbJA7MY&feature=PlayList&p=CC31EFEC908DAEA8&index=14

I give you real world facts and experiences and you give me sticking your fingers in your ears 'lalalalala'. Wiki is not a reliable source but already as I said, you point to special forces soldiers/soldiers that are celebrated above others for their ability to do something extraordinary, and then you show me cinema clips.

It doesn't matter if the classes had the same fitness level, there obviously were limitations to what the ACE team could accomplish, but what they did accomplish is to remind the player that Rambo is just a movie and that you cannot carry as much as you want, as far as you want, running the whole way, then fight in a fierce battle and just keep running as if you just climbed out of bed. It is a realism mod for realism players only instead of controlling the pace of the mission as many others do by micromanaging every moment you are in the server, their mod does it for them by forcing players to depend on one another. Like a team.

As for being elitist, there is nothing elitist about building a mod for yourself and then sharing it with the community, not everyone will like it and they are not obligated to cater to everyone's opinions of how the mod should be created. Not elitist. Even less so then those that create great mods, tell everyone how great they are and then refuse to share it with anyone.

[CombatComm]

I wonder how many people bitching about the fitness portion of this addon are fat slobby armchair commanders? Probably the majority. Get out and run 100 m with a full ruck and m60 in your hands and see if u dont collapse. Most people in here would pass out just trying to pick up the gear. Shit alot of personel in the Air Force cant pass their PT test to save their lives.

[BoxiouS]

Everytime i check this thread there's page after page of people whining about the fatigue system. Having never played ACE for Arma i don't know how the old system worked, and frankly i don't care. Have a little faith people.


I wonder how many people bitching about the fitness portion of this addon are fat slobby armchair commanders? Probably the majority. Get out and run 100 m with a full ruck and m60 in your hands and see if u dont collapse. Most people in here would pass out just trying to pick up the gear. Shit alot of personel in the Air Force cant pass their PT test to save their lives.

I'm not fat, but i aint fit either. I don't have an M-16 but i just ran round the block with my rucksac full of wet washing and my guitar. Needless to say i was fucked and close to blacking out.:D

[Uglyboy]

Everytime i check this thread there's page after page of people whining about the fatigue system. Having never played ACE for Arma i don't know how the old system worked, and frankly i don't care. Have a little faith people.



I'm not fat, but i aint fit either. I don't have an M-16 but i just ran round the block with my rucksac full of wet washing and my guitar. Needless to say i was fucked and close to blacking out.:D

I hope there wasn't any neighbour around :D That would be kinda hard to explain :rolleyes:

[scubaman3D]

Needless to say i was fucked and close to blacking out.:D

hahaa...I love that you did that IRL. :)

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

ok im trying to find somewhere to download the ace mod from and cant find working links. can anyone point me in the right direction.

Thanx in advance

[sparks50]

The ACE mod for Arma 1 can be found here:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/A.C.E_Advanced_Combat_Environment#Patch_9_Release_1.09

ACE 2 for Arma 2 is not released yet.

[Evil_Echo]

A kindly suggestion to those offering suggestions.

Don't cite as proof a dramatic movie based on a dramatic novel based on some reports of a real event. ACE tends to give more credit to sources like the Janes' series of reference books, field manuals, or actual experiences reported first-hand by active or ex-military.

That means references to "Commando" are not as likely to be taken as seriously as a reference to FM-23-23 about the use of claymore mines. :)

Additionally - some of your ideas do get taken seriously. Discussions of the better ones happen all the time among the team members. The more credible the idea, the better the chances you'll get a goodie down the road. Ok?

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

The ACE mod for Arma 1 can be found here:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/A.C.E_Advanced_Combat_Environment#Patch_9_Release_1.09

ACE 2 for Arma 2 is not released yet.
ahh thats probally why i cant find it :P thanx mate

is there an eta for this yet or a beta

[Fisgas]

as it has been said, time and time again, when done.

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

lol ok. ive only just heard about it. someone was talking about it in another forum as if it was out already

[Callsign]

it is for arma1

[SUBS17]

I give you real world facts and experiences and you give me sticking your fingers in your ears 'lalalalala'. Wiki is not a reliable source but already as I said, you point to special forces soldiers/soldiers that are celebrated above others for their ability to do something extraordinary, and then you show me cinema clips.

It doesn't matter if the classes had the same fitness level, there obviously were limitations to what the ACE team could accomplish, but what they did accomplish is to remind the player that Rambo is just a movie and that you cannot carry as much as you want, as far as you want, running the whole way, then fight in a fierce battle and just keep running as if you just climbed out of bed. It is a realism mod for realism players only instead of controlling the pace of the mission as many others do by micromanaging every moment you are in the server, their mod does it for them by forcing players to depend on one another. Like a team.

.

Well actually there is more than one source of what happened in Bravo 2 zero and it is a good example of some important aspects that could make future mods better or more realsitic. Although its a dramatisation of the actual event it shows several key aspects regarding how much people who are SF can carry and also how they carry it. So note the M72s in the pack if ACE were to model that you could look at changing the load menu. If it were modeled like that would require the player to place the M72 in the pack. To use the M72 would require the player to drop the pack first and then remove the M72. Also note that the SF class should be able to run with it. The actual packs in that patrol weighted alot more than a standard bergen as they carried alot of extra gear some of which they dropped in the initial contact. The fitness class for a teeth arm soldier eg Infantry, engineer, artillery etc Should be fit also since those types of soldiers prior to going to war also maintain a high fitness level although they are normally not as fit as the SF units. At its current level in ACE that is not reflected realistically and also when the players character becomes fatigued it is way too early espeically with a light load.


As for being elitist, there is nothing elitist about building a mod for yourself and then sharing it with the community, not everyone will like it and they are not obligated to cater to everyone's opinions of how the mod should be created. Not elitist. Even less so then those that create great mods, tell everyone how great they are and then refuse to share it with anyone.

I don't get where you are going with this comment as its quite OT we are talking ACE fatigue modeling are we not.


It doesn't matter if the classes had the same fitness level, there obviously were limitations to what the ACE team could accomplish, but what they did accomplish is to remind the player that Rambo is just a movie and that you cannot carry as much as you want.

Overdone is the word that springs to mind here and no its not a limitation its because the person they modeled this off was unfit. Yes I agree that Quake(not RAmbo) style FPS gaming is unrealistic in having players carry 10 weapons and be able to run 100% 100% of the time is unrealistic. As for Rambo in what movie did he carry more than what is modeled in ACE? As for Blackouts that should remain in aircraft only although the blinking effect is good. I think ACE is revolutionising the way FPS is being played in many aspects its well ahead of the other FPS games out there because of this. Even if its modeled the same as ACE1 I'd still use it in Arma2 and just adapt like I did with Arma Ace1. Remember there is a differerence between flaming and discussing.

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------


Thank you for the comments, as this is exactly what we wanted to happen. Players are forced to depend on each other now. The machine gunner needs teammates to carry extra ammo, the AT gunner needs people to carry extra rockets, and so on.

In addition, since resources are more limited, this forces the player to mind their inventory and not run their ar's on full-auto all the time. And its important to share as well. As a medic, I might often hand out my extra mags to other players and there is sharing among fireteams as well.

I like the machine gun and tripod combination which requires 2 players to setup.

[SUBS17]

Isnt the whole point of ACE that it's NOT modular? Just one mod to rule them all? With features implemented that are supported by a vast majority of the community? Making things modular in MP will only advantage/disadvantage players and will only stand to divide an already relatively small community. If for instance ACE makes shooting after running more realistic by making it harder, I don't want another player to be able to turn that feature off. If ACE incorporates new smoke effects that are more persistent, I don't want another player to turn that off so he can see more than I can. Also, would we find a 100 different types of ACE running on different servers? Don't make it modular I say, keep it simple, keep it clean.

Modular approach is the best way to go my view is combine a modular framework with a standard patch updating system. What is meant by modular is that if the developers want to improve an area of Arma they can without adversely affecting other aspects of the sim or its MP compatibility. Ideally you want an auto-updater as well so for example. If they made a Maverick missile view for the A-10 then installing it wouldn't effect the other modules of the mod. A good example is a sim called Falcon 4 its not modular in its frame work so if you made an F/A-18 mod it would still use F-16 avionics because of that where as FSX is modular you can have as many aircraft addons as you like and you're not limited to just one set of FM or avionics. It just makes it easier for the developers as well I think if they used that approach. It would be very cool if all addon vehicles/wepons/aircraft and terrain were made ace compatible and placed in an auto-update file so everyone gets it so long as its upto the ACE standard. At the moment with Arma we have all these addon vehicles/weapons etc And its not all submitted as part of one mod so you have to download them separately but the advantage is if at the same time they were added to missions like warfare, Evo and domination etc It would make things quite interesting particularly if a new tank or aircraft pops up. Modular is a cool approach.:cool:

[anfiach]

Well actually there is more than one source of what happened in Bravo 2 zero and it is a good example of some important aspects that could make future mods better or more realsitic. Although its a dramatisation of the actual event it shows several key aspects regarding how much people who are SF can carry and also how they carry it. So note the M72s in the pack if ACE were to model that you could look at changing the load menu. If it were modeled like that would require the player to place the M72 in the pack. To use the M72 would require the player to drop the pack first and then remove the M72. Also note that the SF class should be able to run with it. The actual packs in that patrol weighted alot more than a standard bergen as they carried alot of extra gear some of which they dropped in the initial contact. The fitness class for a teeth arm soldier eg Infantry, engineer, artillery etc Should be fit also since those types of soldiers prior to going to war also maintain a high fitness level although they are normally not as fit as the SF units. At its current level in ACE that is not reflected realistically and also when the players character becomes fatigued it is way too early espeically with a light load.



I don't get where you are going with this comment as its quite OT we are talking ACE fatigue modeling are we not.



Overdone is the word that springs to mind here and no its not a limitation its because the person they modeled this off was unfit. Yes I agree that Quake(not RAmbo) style FPS gaming is unrealistic in having players carry 10 weapons and be able to run 100% 100% of the time is unrealistic. As for Rambo in what movie did he carry more than what is modeled in ACE? As for Blackouts that should remain in aircraft only although the blinking effect is good. I think ACE is revolutionising the way FPS is being played in many aspects its well ahead of the other FPS games out there because of this. Even if its modeled the same as ACE1 I'd still use it in Arma2 and just adapt like I did with Arma Ace1. Remember there is a differerence between flaming and discussing.

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------



I like the machine gun and tripod combination which requires 2 players to setup.
I would like to point out that a portion of that statement was in response to other comments in this thread, so sorry for the confusion.

Anyway, @<hidden> BTZ I was pointing out the poor sources for info. Not many are reliable, especially with the tendency for things to get trumped up in the telling. This happens for many reasons, nothing that I need to go into here in detail.

You also assert that regular soldiers maintain a high fitness level which is true only if you consider contestants of "The Biggest Loser" to maintain a moderate fitness level. Simply paying attention to the news cycles where the militaries of many of the major world powers seem to be competing to see who can be the most obese, makes this obvious. In war time, fitness training takes a back seat to other priorities and minimum standards are not that high to begin with. You are using the top few % as a base line.

Pointing out flaws in your arguments or simply disagreeing do not constitute flaming. I am not in the least hostile, but tone typically does not translate well in text, particularly when you are disagreeing with an individual's stated position.

Interesting take on the M79 issue but I would imagine the issue with the packs is simply a limitation of either the game or the time available to develop it. The M79 could be secured in many ways not requiring dropping the pack to access it but neither method reduces the weight. Perhaps SF could run with it, perhaps not. Did/do they have the ability to set separate fitness levels for different classes?

It also depends upon what you consider a light load. Remember to add the 20 or so pounds (20 is probably at the low end for the standard issue) for the tactical vest with armor plates that most characters are already wearing. I carried roughly 100lbs of gear without counting my ruck and it's contents and people weren't mistaking me for Carl Lewis

[Pathy]

I can tell you the trouble with the fatigue system as it was in ArmA in one sentence; it didn't simulate or compensate for adrenaline.

It's pointless complaining about the ArmA 2 version when none of know what it's like yet, though.

@<hidden> Your Army may have low standards and obese soldiers, but don't speak for other nations. ;)

[galzohar]

I still don't understand why they decided to keep the "blacking out" system. Real soldiers (and humans overall) don't run until they black out, but rather slow down when they are too tired to run quickly. Blacking out in the battlefield just because you ran too much carrying too much gear just doesn't happen. Just try it yourself, load yourself out with gear and try running as fast as you can, and let me know what happened first - did you black out or did you just slow down and wasn't able to run any faster? I can pretty much guarantee it'll be the latter.

[hollow point]

I still don't understand why they decided to keep the "blacking out" system. Real soldiers (and humans overall) don't run until they black out, but rather slow down when they are too tired to run quickly. Blacking out in the battlefield just because you ran too much carrying too much gear just doesn't happen. Just try it yourself, load yourself out with gear and try running as fast as you can, and let me know what happened first - did you black out or did you just slow down and wasn't able to run any faster? I can pretty much guarantee it'll be the latter.

I agree. One guy posted saying he saw a soldier once passing out. Ive seen someone pass out too. It doesnt mean it should be included. I personally didnt like the passing out feature. It happend WAY too soon and was just annoying.

[VKing]

I still don't understand why they decided to keep the "blacking out" system. Real soldiers (and humans overall) don't run until they black out, but rather slow down when they are too tired to run quickly. Blacking out in the battlefield just because you ran too much carrying too much gear just doesn't happen. Just try it yourself, load yourself out with gear and try running as fast as you can, and let me know what happened first - did you black out or did you just slow down and wasn't able to run any faster? I can pretty much guarantee it'll be the latter.
I agree. One guy posted saying he saw a soldier once passing out. Ive seen someone pass out too. It doesnt mean it should be included. I personally didnt like the passing out feature. It happend WAY too soon and was just annoying.

You already slow down in-game after you've sprinted a while, over long distances it's no faster to sprint than to just run, so you do slow down before you black out.
And both IRL and in ACE you can push yourself beyond that, but then you risk running yourself into the ground.

And why does everyone seem to think you just collapsed or blacked out immediatly in ace1? You could run and sprint for quite some time, even when relativly heavily loaded, before you even got the really heavy breathing.

[Prydain]

I agree. One guy posted saying he saw a soldier once passing out. Ive seen someone pass out too. It doesnt mean it should be included. I personally didnt like the passing out feature. It happend WAY too soon and was just annoying.
It may happen in your local weight watchers club, but for soldiers this shouldn't happen unless they have eaten too many Mc'yDs, haven't eaten for a day or two or are about to get kicked out for not being fit.

I recently [mostly] ran and jogged a distance of 2.3miles (according to my Curvimetre) carrying a toddler, I didn't black out and I am far less fit than what is required of soldiers.


And why does everyone seem to think you just collapsed or blacked out immediatly in ace1? You could run and sprint for quite some time, even when relativly heavily loaded, before you even got the really heavy breathing.Well if you sprinted more than a metre or two you would loose all weapon stability, I liken it to like suddenly being struck with ataxia. Blacking out did happen quite a lot for me in ACE1, it was extremely annoying when you play with an organised group because you need to quickly react and move a lot so you just end up 'battle-incapable' because your weapon would be swaying all over the place and some times blacking out would come up and just turn the rest of your game into you childishly whining about how the system is designed with fat people in mind.

[MattXR]

jesus f**k can we stop with the blacking out/fatness/fatgiue shite and lets talk about a differnt feature for once ive read in the past 20 pages or so just tonnes of unessary shite about blacking out now my eyes are bleeding, im suprised they just dont get this thead locked untill someone has something good to say i knw i would.

Speaking of other features, how will the mask system work in mp? So i configure say a gas mask in my config will that mask be able to be seen by other players etc? will it limit my view all the time like with the mask effect?

[usarmy19dsniper]

How about we change the topic with some eye candy from the ACE team of new features?

[Evil_Echo]

To all those who have claimed they can run with heavy loads, soldiers are out of shape, etc. in the last 3 weeks....

You have 4 days from the date of this posting to post a link to a new YouTube video of yourself sprinting with 40kg of gear on your back for 200m and then reciting the first 20 sentences of your national constitution without any errors. At the begining you must include yourself showing your national identity card in a way it can be clearly read on the screen by a person with 20/20 vision in non-HD mode without any magnification aids. The video will be checked for tampering.

Failure to complete the challenge will be an explicit and total admission that you are spamming this forum and BI will be asked to look into whether you should be punished for abusive and/or harrassing behavior.

[CombatComm]

lol Awseome! I wana try!



To all those who have claimed they can run with heavy loads, soldiers are out of shape, etc. in the last 3 weeks....

You have 4 days from the date of this posting to post a link to a new YouTube video of yourself sprinting with 40kg of gear on your back for 200m and then reciting the first 20 sentences of your national constitution without any errors. At the begining you must include yourself showing your national identity card in a way it can be clearly ready on the screen by a person with 20/20 vision in non-HD mode without any magnification aids. The video will be checked for tampering.

Failure to complete the challenge will be an explicit and total admission that you are spamming this forum and BI will be asked to look into whether you should be punished for abusive and/or harrassing behavior.

[kklownboy]

but before the sprint they have to keep taking off the gear and putting it back on for 20min(like in the game choosing weapons) and then walk around for 15min more(waiting for orders) then the sprint.

[Foxhound]

then reciting the first 20 sentences of your national constitution without any errors.

Thats not fair, your making it to hard on them.
Ask them to sing the banana song.

[Inkompetent]

National constitution? Not even the politicians in Sweden knows that, even less the soldiers!

[Winch3st3r]

getting back on topic...... I am not one who could implement such ideas but i do agree a new fatigue system must be developed. The amount of time yelling at the screen for making me black out after jogging 20 ft with a full ruck sack is ridiculous. This is not meant to put down the previous system as I understand there were most likely some engine limitations but if what i am reading is correct the blackout system is the incorrect system to implement.

[MattXR]

a new fatigue system must be developed. .

And have you read the developers posts? :butbut:

any news on what east aircraft can and cant be refuled in mid flight or is that a silly question? lol

[PuFu]

getting back on topic...... I am not one who could implement such ideas but i do agree a new fatigue system must be developed. The amount of time yelling at the screen for making me black out after jogging 20 ft with a full ruck sack is ridiculous. This is not meant to put down the previous system as I understand there were most likely some engine limitations but if what i am reading is correct the blackout system is the incorrect system to implement.
You think Echo was joking or what? He didn't

Please, if you wanna comment on balckout etc, provide the youtube video requested.

[Simon C]

Speaking of inflight refuelling, I hope that it's all probe-and-drogue, none of that boom-and-receptacle nonsense. :p

[Defunkt]

You think Echo was joking or what? He didn't
You have been reported.

Please, if you wanna comment on balckout etc, provide the youtube video requested.

Excuse me but, you don't set the agenda in this or any other forum here. His post is on topic, if you don't want your mod discussed don't start a thread for it in the AddOns & Mods Discussion forum.

[SnakeGRNET]

I have to say that not allowing discussions on certain topics is very eletist (Def: (noun) those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight or those who view their own views as so) of you... I do think that the mod should be done the way you are planning, but conversation on alternative ideas should not be forbidden. As I said though, I think that the fatigue system in ACE is modeled well. His post was legit, though.
That said, if you don't like his post or don't want to respond/argue to him personally, make a statement that says something like: "The current fatigue model is already defined and will not be changed. Thanks for you insight."

I would like to see someone post their attempt at what Echo said to do! That could be entertaining.

[Icewindo]

I still don't understand why they decided to keep the "blacking out" system. Real soldiers (and humans overall) don't run until they black out, but rather slow down when they are too tired to run quickly.

But that's exactly what happened in ACE1, I don't really see your point. :confused:

If you had too much gear you would exhaust quickly representated by the light black in/out, then the dog like gasping for breath and finally the passing out which could have been avoided if the "real soldier" or "real player" would have listened to his character and hit the SHIFT-Key, that dog like breathing should tell everyone to slow down, seriously with all these warnings you couldn't miss the hint your character didn't like the speed he was kept going .

___

Concerning ACE-2, if this applies to the new stamina system, I think it would be nice to add modules for e.g. a percentage-based overall change of stamina loss which mission makers could use to enlargen the stamina effects in e.g. desert terrain.

A dynamic setup calculalating weather and time would be nice too, but I guess it would be more complicated to implement.

[SUBS17]

I agree. One guy posted saying he saw a soldier once passing out. Ive seen someone pass out too. It doesnt mean it should be included. I personally didnt like the passing out feature. It happend WAY too soon and was just annoying.

Normally when a person passes out its due to one of several reasons he could be dehydraded or it could be from heat exhaustion. It also depends on where they are which may attribute to the cause of the problem such has hot dry desert or humid tropical conditions. This can be countered however by water intake. In a situation where a person blacks out from lack of oxygen it can only be done by being physically pushed beyond their capability. This won't happen IRL unless you are literally dragged to maintain a high sprint pace continuously until the oxygen intake is not enough to keep the pace. The conditions in Arma do not allow for this effect you simply won't meet that condition unless your character were tied to a vehicle and forced to run behind it for 5kms.

[usarmy19dsniper]

To all those who have claimed they can run with heavy loads, soldiers are out of shape, etc. in the last 3 weeks....

You have 4 days from the date of this posting to post a link to a new YouTube video of yourself sprinting with 40kg of gear on your back for 200m and then reciting the first 20 sentences of your national constitution without any errors. At the begining you must include yourself showing your national identity card in a way it can be clearly read on the screen by a person with 20/20 vision in non-HD mode without any magnification aids. The video will be checked for tampering.

Failure to complete the challenge will be an explicit and total admission that you are spamming this forum and BI will be asked to look into whether you should be punished for abusive and/or harrassing behavior.

If I am sprinting for 200 M, I won't be able to finish the first 20 lines of the Constitution in time.

Anyways can somebody time how long it takes for somebody to run 200 M with 40kg in Arma1 with ACE?

Based on what I found in Arma1, @<hidden> I Ran 100 Meters in 15 seconds before passing out.

Tomorrow I will do it IRL with my helmet camera. I will wear a helmet, body armor, uniform, boots and rucksack. I will have a scale to weight myself and equipment and include it in the video. I will not recite the Constitution but I will recite the "Ballad of the Green Berets"

[SUBS17]

I would like to point out that a portion of that statement was in response to other comments in this thread, so sorry for the confusion.

Pointing out flaws in your arguments or simply disagreeing do not constitute flaming. I am not in the least hostile, but tone typically does not translate well in text, particularly when you are disagreeing with an individual's stated position.

Interesting take on the M79 issue but I would imagine the issue with the packs is simply a limitation of either the game or the time available to develop it. The M79 could be secured in many ways not requiring dropping the pack to access it but neither method reduces the weight. Perhaps SF could run with it, perhaps not. Did/do they have the ability to set separate fitness levels for different classes?

It also depends upon what you consider a light load. Remember to add the 20 or so pounds (20 is probably at the low end for the standard issue) for the tactical vest with armor plates that most characters are already wearing. I carried roughly 100lbs of gear without counting my ruck and it's contents and people weren't mistaking me for Carl Lewis

Maybe Body armour should be added to the inventory and also the damage model.


You also assert that regular soldiers maintain a high fitness level which is true only if you consider contestants of "The Biggest Loser" to maintain a moderate fitness level. Simply paying attention to the news cycles where the militaries of many of the major world powers seem to be competing to see who can be the most obese, makes this obvious. In war time, fitness training takes a back seat to other priorities and minimum standards are not that high to begin with. You are using the top few % as a base line.


Yes they actually do maintain a high fitness level infact all types of soldiers do from many armys. You assume that I'm mentioning this from the TV I'm actually repeating what a friend of mine is saying. Hes worked with quite alot of Armys from other countrys including the US Army on operations. All of the ones he worked with did PT and they were all quite fit. Hes also been in the Army for over 20 years served on a couple of deployments and just as an example even part time soldiers maintain a high fitness level and never once seen anyone black out.

---------- Post added at 12:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------


To all those who have claimed they can run with heavy loads, soldiers are out of shape, etc. in the last 3 weeks....

You have 4 days from the date of this posting to post a link to a new YouTube video of yourself sprinting with 40kg of gear on your back for 200m and then reciting the first 20 sentences of your national constitution without any errors. At the begining you must include yourself showing your national identity card in a way it can be clearly read on the screen by a person with 20/20 vision in non-HD mode without any magnification aids. The video will be checked for tampering.

Failure to complete the challenge will be an explicit and total admission that you are spamming this forum and BI will be asked to look into whether you should be punished for abusive and/or harrassing behavior.

Well if you firemans carry a person is alot heavier than 40kg and 200m is not far.
http://www.army.mil.nz/at-a-glance/news/army-news/389/tld.htm


an RFL. This was conducted in chilly conditions on the running track at QEII

RFL G2 (Required Fitness Level - Grade 2) Run 2.4 Kms Curl-Ups Press-Ups
Male 10 Minutes 30 Seconds 60 28
Female 12 Minutes 20 SecondS 50 14



Within minutes of completing the RFL the teams changed quickly, donned field kit, and threw their FSMO onto their backs as they set off for their next task. This began with a 14 km forced pack march from QEII to the southern end of New Brighton beach.

FSMO = pack, webbing and rifle


After a 100m fireman’s carry and soldier drag it was onto the waiting transport and through the Lyttelton tunnel to Governors Bay.

http://www.army.mil.nz/careers/joining-up/fitness-planner/how-fit-do-you-have-to-be.htm

Need I say more.:D

[PuFu]

Excuse me but, you don't set the agenda in this or any other forum here. His post is on topic, if you don't want your mod discussed don't start a thread for it in the AddOns & Mods Discussion forum.
you are excused, and yes, my bad

well, my POV on the topic...
further posting on the mentioned subject = no more info from the ACE dev team, as well as no more information or updates on the topic subject.

I guess that is better for you...

we'll see

go ahead and continue the endless debate about a feature you haven't even seen...

[usarmy19dsniper]

you are excused, and yes, my bad

well, my POV on the topic...
further posting on the mentioned subject = no more info from the ACE dev team, as well as no more information or updates on the topic subject.

I guess that is better for you...

we'll see

go ahead and continue the endless debate about a feature you haven't even seen...

Ah shucks

[b00ce]

I was wondering, since the tail-rotor on helicopters is deadly, is the main-rotor as well?

Imagine the possibilities. :y:

[Fisgas]

you are excused, and yes, my bad

well, my POV on the topic...
further posting on the mentioned subject = no more info from the ACE dev team, as well as no more information or updates on the topic subject.

I guess that is better for you...

we'll see

go ahead and continue the endless debate about a feature you haven't even seen...

Thanks to everyone who annoyed and pressured the dev guys about something as trivial as the stamina model... Let's see you do better than them. Now we'll be in the dark until it comes out :mad:

[Lhowon]

Thanks to the devs for getting so worked up about something so trivial as people discussing a feature in a discussion thread, then being petty enough to threaten to withhold info because of it.

I think everyone needs to calm down a little. This is a thread discussing a mod, posts here are in no way "pressuring" the ACE devs, they are welcome to pay attention or to ignore as they please. That they seem to take every post personally isn't the fault of the posters.

I eagerly await the "you've done it now, no more info" childishness.

[usarmy19dsniper]

that didn't take long

[SUBS17]

Thanks to the devs for getting so worked up about something so trivial as people discussing a feature in a discussion thread, then being petty enough to threaten to withhold info because of it.

I think everyone needs to calm down a little. This is a thread discussing a mod, posts here are in no way "pressuring" the ACE devs, they are welcome to pay attention or to ignore as they please. That they seem to take every post personally isn't the fault of the posters.

I eagerly await the "you've done it now, no more info" childishness.

No ones pressuring anyone if anything the person who made that statement is overeacting. Its good to discuss features and ideas because normally there is positive outcomes when good ideas are talked about. Sure enough there is people who have knowledge on some things related to this and thats why some opinions like my own won't change on such things. I've seen a similar situation on another forum regarding Blackouts in aircraft where players were blacking out at 5g and if you spoke to F-16 pilots they would say that it was modeled off someone unfit as well since most F-16 pilots take their aircraft upto 9gs but then you have other factors and modelling g has its own fatigue factor as well. And ideas were kicked around but the good thing is that by discussing it everyone had a better idea of what was involved and guys were trying to find ways to model ATGSM! I can just imagine if someone wanted to take this further it would involve VR and a treadmill.:D

[Inkompetent]

People have constantly been taking a piss at the blackouts with very little constructive feedback. It has been like 20 pages of repeated banter, and when the devs say that they have made a new stamina system and scrapped the old one NO ONE listens. What the hell did you think would happen?

That they would hug you for filling the thread with pointless shit? Maybe one page total if summing up the posts of the last twenty is reasonably constructive.

Complaining about something that doesn't even exist anymore is NOT constructive. ArmA Forums - Episode 1: The 4chan Menace.

[PuFu]

Thanks to the devs for getting so worked up about something so trivial as people discussing a feature in a discussion thread, then being petty enough to threaten to withhold info because of it.
That was my POV...and that wasn't a threat in any form, just a reality. Believe me, no one got worked up, it is just that there is no reason to follow up a thread where there is a lot of discussing about only one feature, that you haven't even seen, for the last 20 so pages, sometimes going really of topic and using unreliable references that can't be backed up...

It has been answered before that the black-outs are being looked over, even if the system is already different now; there is even a feedback point started on DH based on it...No one is being defensive here, you have already been explained by echo what was the point of how the ACE1 system has been done..

Obviously, you can post whatever you feel like as long as it is on the subject, but you are dancing on the wrong music, and after a while, i doubt anyone will one follow this thread just to read the same thing all over again, and maybe pick up 2 or 3 post out of 20 pages with real info or questions that you might want a answer for

[Tonci87]

I was wondering, since the tail-rotor on helicopters is deadly, is the main-rotor as well?

Imagine the possibilities. :y:

Would be like in GTA4. Was fun to clean the Pavewalk.


No one is going to upload this Youtube Video? Shame on you ;-)

[NoRailgunner]

Just some question:
If & how ACE2 AI will use (or be aware of) all those nice features eg. crew served weapons, grenades, backblast, overpressure, rucksack system, tailrotors and many others?
Are you testing ACE2 only in/for MP missions or also in/for SP?
Is it possible to play Arma2 with ACE2 all non-ACE2 missions/missions created without addons?

[Nickos]

Just some question:
If & how ACE2 AI will use (or be aware of) all those nice features eg. crew served weapons, grenades, backblast, overpressure, rucksack system, tailrotors and many others?
Are you testing ACE2 only in/for MP missions or also in/for SP?
Is it possible to play Arma2 with ACE2 all non-ACE2 missions/missions created without addons?
Why should ACE-less created missions\missions (;D) not work with ACE addons? All of the ACE features will be implemented in them, actually

[Inkompetent]

Why should ACE-less created missions\missions (;D) not work with ACE addons? All of the ACE features will be implemented in them, actually

Simply because of fundamental changes to unit layouts, and both unit and weapon behaviour that can screw mission balance (or even the possibility to win at all) over completely.

For example stamina and backblasts are very good game-breakers for some missions.

[SUBS17]

It has been answered before that the black-outs are being looked over, even if the system is already different now; there is even a feedback point started on DH based on it...No one is being defensive here, you have already been explained by echo what was the point of how the ACE1 system has been done..



Well that sounds awesome I look forward to seeing that in action.:yay:

---------- Post added at 06:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:46 AM ----------



That they would hug you for filling the thread with pointless shit? Maybe one page total if summing up the posts of the last twenty is reasonably constructive.

Complaining about something that doesn't even exist anymore is NOT constructive. ArmA Forums - Episode 1: The 4chan Menace.

I wasn't actually complaining merely pointing out the reality that there is no Black out IRL. And I backed that up with:
1/ Historical accounts from actual battles including video re-enactments of those events as an example.
2/ An actual Blog of average soldiers competing in a competition(including women) which tested their endurance and skill.
3/ Comments from an actual soldier which supported my views on the topic.

I think there is one way in which you could potentially make dehydration a factor is to add the water intake to the players character which adds not only an extra area to keep an eye on but also more weight overall to what the character has to carry. And then like Dukenukem you also have to go take a piss every now and then which is well beyond hardcore for an FPS but it would make things interesting.:D

[Delta 51]

1/ Historical accounts from actual battles including video re-enactments of those events as an example.
2/ An actual Blog of average soldiers competing in a competition(including women) which tested their endurance and skill.
3/ Comments from an actual soldier which supported my views on the topic.

1/ You recounted dramatized events from films and TV shows, not historical documentation

2/ Competitions can not in no way simulate the effects of a real firefight (adrenaline [it does not always work in your favor], psychology [your mind feels it's carrying more than it is], weather conditions [obvious, and unfortunately cannot be emulated from what i gather to increase effects] few to be named)

3/ People's credibility on forums can never been proven to the fullest except by trust, and the amount of armchair generals i have encountered lost my faith in said serving men attempting to help out. Even in so, every soldier has different training techniques and all of them have an independent obligation to uphold their fitness levels (except in Australia and possibly in other countries where you are required to take fitness tests every so often to prove you have maintained fitness).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Lets just leave the decision making to the ACE dev team, if after the release it is not quite so proper to suit the game play, then we can bitch about it, but until then ladies just give it a rest.

[Alex72]

Ok lets leave this now and look forward to the next update instead...

[Uglyboy]

Can we talk about something else? What about the wound and first aid system? It was one of the main feature in ACE1 i haven't heard anything about that for ACE2.

[Fisgas]

No point asking, as they said above, we're not getting any more info until it's out :(

[Uglyboy]

Well we can try to bring back a usefull discussion anyway, maybe the dev's will show mercy :)

[Cole]

So, thanks to some ****** that keep discussing a feature they just can't handle (and it has been reworked for ArmA2), we're all cut away from cool info? Sometimes I really wish I could punch people over the inernet.

[Tonci87]

Yeah I know what you mean...

[scubaman3D]

Sometimes I really wish I could punch people over the inernet.

The man who invents TCP/IP punching will be the next Bill Gates.

[Thirdup]

The man who invents TCP/IP punching will be the next Bill Gates.

But would factors like stamina be simulated in the punching?


;)

[Alex72]

The man who invents TCP/IP punching will be the next Bill Gates.

Im on it.

So far 13 broken monitors, but i think im onto something. So anyone messing around again just might get knocked the fuck out.

Im serious.

However im looking forward to hearing, reading or seeing any news about ACE2. :)

[Syonco]

But would factors like stamina be simulated in the punching?


;)

I lol'd :p

[Smurf]

Looking forward to see how the team will use the new shaders effects, color correction, blur etc, in terms of supression fire, adrenaline, G-forces, close call explosions and..........stamina xD.

Aswell the particle effects that seems better in A2.

[seminara]

Probably difficult to answer, but anyone have a rough ETA for this mod?

[metsapeikkoo]

Yeah. Sure. I have ACCURATE DATE FOR THE RELEASE DATE.







When its done.

[SUBS17]

1/ You recounted dramatized events from films and TV shows, not historical documentation

3/ People's credibility on forums can never been proven to the fullest except by trust, and the amount of armchair generals i have encountered lost my faith in said serving men attempting to help out. Even in so, every soldier has different training techniques and all of them have an independent obligation to uphold their fitness levels (except in Australia and possibly in other countries where you are required to take fitness tests every so often to prove you have maintained fitness).



I used video footage from movies which were exactly as mentioned in books which were written from interviews with people involved. In Bravo 2 zero the patrol ran quite a distance and then later Chris Ryan walked all the way to Syria(160km) and that was from more than just one book all the books written about it showed the same. Same can also be said for BHD yes those guys after fighting all day and all night ran all the way to the UN Compound. Just because its a movie doesn't mean it didn't happen they are both great stories and there are interviews as well if you look on Youtube with some of the soldiers.


2/ Competitions can not in no way simulate the effects of a real firefight (adrenaline [it does not always work in your favor], psychology [your mind feels it's carrying more than it is], weather conditions [obvious, and unfortunately cannot be emulated from what i gather to increase effects] few to be named)


Competitions can show you the level of endurance that people can push themselves and same with fitness tests which was why I mentioned it. Psychology and adrenalin in a computer game is actually simulated by the player himself. You don't need to simulate either aspect because the experience from the game will deliver that if its done right. For a combat sim like Arma the effects I think aren't the same as games like Halflife since the player is less afraid of bullets than he is of getting eaten by a giant monster.:D
Probably the best aspect of ACE1s damage model is the player screaming in pain which is very cool there is definately some good aspects in the damage model although its basic 1st aid its very well done.


Lets just leave the decision making to the ACE dev team, if after the release it is not quite so proper to suit the game play, then we can bitch about it, but until then ladies just give it a rest.

Yeah I agree I look forward to seeing what they come up with so far the list of improvements make it by far the most authentic FPS.

[seminara]

Very intelligent. I did preface the question with the word 'rough'.




Yeah. Sure. I have ACCURATE DATE FOR THE RELEASE DATE.







When its done.

[Steakslim]

I used video footage from movies which were exactly as mentioned in books which were written from interviews with people involved. In Bravo 2 zero the patrol ran quite a distance and then later Chris Ryan walked all the way to Syria(160km) and that was from more than just one book all the books written about it showed the same. Same can also be said for BHD yes those guys after fighting all day and all night ran all the way to the UN Compound. Just because its a movie doesn't mean it didn't happen they are both great stories and there are interviews as well if you look on Youtube with some of the soldiers.



Competitions can show you the level of endurance that people can push themselves and same with fitness tests which was why I mentioned it. Psychology and adrenalin in a computer game is actually simulated by the player himself. You don't need to simulate either aspect because the experience from the game will deliver that if its done right. For a combat sim like Arma the effects I think aren't the same as games like Halflife since the player is less afraid of bullets than he is of getting eaten by a giant monster.:D
Probably the best aspect of ACE1s damage model is the player screaming in pain which is very cool there is definately some good aspects in the damage model although its basic 1st aid its very well done.



Yeah I agree I look forward to seeing what they come up with so far the list of improvements make it by far the most authentic FPS.

for fucks sake, the both of you SHUT IT.

[jhoson14]

/Ignore SUBS17.

For God Sake Stop Spaming the Thread with this.


Hey, we havent see the mod yet.So wait for it come out, test and after that start to complaining about any issue you dont like.

If you really dont like and want a MoD who suits your taste...

Make yourself one.

Stop posting shit here and let us have the news and upadtes about the mod.

---
Or make a modification on stamina and show it to us.

You just talking and talking here SUBS17...

[Fisgas]

Subs would you please give it a rest already? You are the only one still on about this.

[BoxiouS]

I bet if you took out all of the stamina whines and the 'when's it out' this thread would only be 10 pages. Have you guys no decent games to play? Try Arma 2, i believe that's pretty good.

[pepsifx357]

Done yet?

[SUBS17]

Subs would you please give it a rest already? You are the only one still on about this.

Ok Dude :D

[Trauma.au]

So how about that black out thing in ACE1??

lol I kid I kid :p

[anfiach]

So instead of crying, why not suggest something to discuss? I really don't see much to talk about until the mod is released. The updates have been nice, but it doesn't tell us much about how the mod will affect game play beyond what we know about A.C.E. 1 and we are being told not to discuss that because this is A.C.E. 2......

[Alex72]

I wouldnt be surprised if the ACE team skips giving us ACE2 all together...

Lets just give the guys a break so they can work on this epic-full-conversion-kick-ass-mod in peace. When something is presented - we have something substancial to discuss. Or better yet - when the mod is released. Discussing the things we havent tried yet is retarded. ACE1 is ACE1 - this is ACE2.

Peace.

[Cole]

I wouldnt be surprised if the ACE team skips giving us ACE2 all together...
Peace.
For that case, I always keep a sharp axe in an emergency_break_glass_box in my room so I could thank the whiners :3

But hopefully that's not going to happen. There's a few whiners, but hundreds of true ACE fans!

[Gungoren]

i wonder how will google system work? gas masks and etc. are they gonna use binoculars&nvg slot or somethingelse?

[jhoson14]

There's something about this i had comented and got lost on the discussion...

I read about Sunglasses on ACE2 wiki, they will have any especial Feature?

Like a Less-Blury sun when wearing then?

[Thirdup]

As to all the comments about "whiners" ...

If you look back about ten days ago, one of the ACE team came here and specifically asked what was disliked about the ACE1 stamina system. Yes, they got "feedback" of various forms for 20+ pages (which was likely excessive).

But the fact remains that they did inquire, so it's not really correct to lump everyone who responded with feedback into the category of "whiners".

Projects like this are not developed in a vaccum and require feedback. And that feedback is not always positive.

In any event, I look forward to ACE2 and can't wait to see what all the team's hard work has produced.

[Fisgas]

I wouldnt be surprised if the ACE team skips giving us ACE2 all together...

Lets just give the guys a break so they can work on this epic-full-conversion-kick-ass-mod in peace. When something is presented - we have something substancial to discuss. Or better yet - when the mod is released. Discussing the things we havent tried yet is retarded. ACE1 is ACE1 - this is ACE2.

Peace.

Oh please! God no! I hope they weren't *that* bothered.

[scubaman3D]

But the fact remains that they did inquire, so it's not really correct to lump everyone who responded with feedback into the category of "whiners"

Thats true. I challenged an individual to provide alternate suggestions which triggered the windfall of debate. For our purposes, we received the feedback we needed within the first maybe 10 to 15 comments. After that, it became an exercise in futility.

We are interested in incorporating some of the suggestions - specifically we looked into adding blur but there are some technical hurdles with doing this. We will do what we can but blackouts remain. Too bad, so sad. ;)

I will add that we have conducted some internal testing and found that a machine gunner - traditionally a heavy load can jog 2km+ before a blackout event. The test was conducted on a completely flat surface (i.e. laps up and down the runway on Utes). Sounds fair to us.

[jhoson14]

Ty for sharing this Scubaman ^^

[Requiem007]

Thats true. I challenged an individual to provide alternate suggestions which triggered the windfall of debate. For our purposes, we received the feedback we needed within the first maybe 10 to 15 comments. After that, it became an exercise in futility.

We are interested in incorporating some of the suggestions - specifically we looked into adding blur but there are some technical hurdles with doing this. We will do what we can but blackouts remain. Too bad, so sad. ;)


Thank you for the word scubaman. I amongst many will be looking forward to ACE 2 when it is ready to be released. Keep up the outstanding work.

[Uglyboy]

Well i would like a perfect blurring for sweating/dehidratation/put_your_wish_here :rolleyes: but i was fine with the ACE1 blackout and i'll fine again :bounce3:

[tpM]

A vid featuring some new gear and effects (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPExkMXGqXs&hd=1).
(some features are in WiP state and might be slightly different by release)

[Trauma.au]

Thats true. I challenged an individual to provide alternate suggestions which triggered the windfall of debate. For our purposes, we received the feedback we needed within the first maybe 10 to 15 comments. After that, it became an exercise in futility.

We are interested in incorporating some of the suggestions - specifically we looked into adding blur but there are some technical hurdles with doing this. We will do what we can but blackouts remain. Too bad, so sad. ;)

I will add that we have conducted some internal testing and found that a machine gunner - traditionally a heavy load can jog 2km+ before a blackout event. The test was conducted on a completely flat surface (i.e. laps up and down the runway on Utes). Sounds fair to us.

True to the nature of Arma.

[Gabe_Ruckus]

Some observations from the video:

The tactical goggles sit very high, it looks like the eyes of the soldier are at the very bottom level of the lenses. They also look like snowboarding goggles, some Wiley-X's Revision Sawfly's, or some sleek looking oakley goggles would be closer to what I see most soldiers wearing.

The visual effect of a weapon going off next to you is nice, but the bass rumble over the ringing is a little too much for weapons discharge. Should just be ringing or diminished hearing.

Sound effect for the M2 isn't deep enough, seems like it should be more "punchy."

That's all I got, haven't ever used any of the other equipment or been flashbanged. :)

[b00ce]

A vid featuring some new gear and effects (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPExkMXGqXs&hd=1).
(some features are in WiP state and might be slightly different by release)

Sweet.

But my only complaint is that somebody behind the barrel is effected by the gunshot, and yet not the shooter. If somebody behind the shooter is effected by it, shouldn't the shooter himself be effected?

I suggest having a conical shaped zone pointing away from the gun at the muzzle as an effected area, instead of a blob around the shooter.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/booce/MS%20Paint/MG-effected-zone.png

similar to that. :)

[Delta 51]

Some observations from the video:

The tactical goggles sit very high, it looks like the eyes of the soldier are at the very bottom level of the lenses. They also look like snowboarding goggles, some Wiley-X's Revision Sawfly's, or some sleek looking oakley goggles would be closer to what I see most soldiers wearing.

The visual effect of a weapon going off next to you is nice, but the bass rumble over the ringing is a little too much for weapons discharge. Should just be ringing or diminished hearing.

Sound effect for the M2 isn't deep enough, seems like it should be more "punchy."

That's all I got, haven't ever used any of the other equipment or been flashbanged. :)

Yo ima let you finish, but subs was the most opinionated of all time, all time (in this thread)



looks good fellas, cant wait to get back into the flashbangs and rucksacks

[kolotei]

can`t wait to try it in action, i think effect on weapone discharg is quit to hard on eyes, i`m mean when somebody gona fire right next to you, you not beable to aim at all, in real life i think you might lose ability to hear for a while but not loste vision so hard, maybe a little easy on fade would be nice, still very nice and realistic... hopefully it`s going to come out soon...

[Alex72]

Oh please! God no! I hope they weren't *that* bothered.

I would do an info blackout for a month. Then again i can get very worked up by whinging.

ACE2 Features Video 2:
Looking very promising! Love that the flashbang this time stays for a while. Perfect timing for getting in and neutralize. And the weapons looks great as always. :)

That blur thing when too close to another weapon - is that to simulate squinting your eyes or similar? Or is it a "gameplay" effect? Little less on it seems like a good idea when being beside/behind as people mentioned. If your pinned down with a mate it will be only one that can fire. Ouch. :)

Alex

[Thirdup]

Sounds fair to us.

And me too....

Thanks for asking for the feedback and sharing the info.

[suhsjake]

I'm pretty sure you don't get blurry vision from shooting a 50 cal and most definitely not a M240 unless you sit right next to the end of the muzzle. Sure at night, you are pretty blind from the flash. I gave up on trying to shoot the M240 with NVGs on.

Also, that AT4 sound is very realistic. One big bang on launch and one when it hits the target.

[Flash Thunder]

WOOT SKS FTW I love that rifle! :D

FN SCAR, AA12 would be awesome to see in ACE 2.

Keep up the great work hell if I didn't know this was a mod I would think it was a standalone game, amazing special effects and that backlash on the M136 was Great! :eek:

Can't wait for its release!

[SUBS17]

I will add that we have conducted some internal testing and found that a machine gunner - traditionally a heavy load can jog 2km+ before a blackout event. The test was conducted on a completely flat surface (i.e. laps up and down the runway on Utes). Sounds fair to us.

So what is the machine gunner carrying for that test? Also are you guys going to model different types of body armour and their associated weights?

[jhoson14]

Awesome Vid as Aways!

Since Scuba sayd it has a Machineguner, so must be a M240, 3 Mags, 1 smoke, 1 M67.
If my memory dont fail me...This has the Default on the game.

If has a M249 he would sayd AR (Automatic Rifleman)

2km before a Blackout?

Fair enought to me!

------
PS: Amazaing Flashbang!Cant wait to see the Gas Grenade.

[Fisgas]

Excelent video guys, thanks for sharing with us! Looking really good, hopefully it will be out soon. :)


So what is the machine gunner carrying for that test? Also are you guys going to model different types of body armour and their associated weights?

Uh-oh... Here we go again... Stamina and blackouts bla bla bla...

[Mr_Centipede]

does the gun firing effect thing have any effects on the AI? unable to identify enemy position/stunned for a brief period of time?

Assuming flashbangs will have an effect on the AI, maybe can use that same effect but a very tone down version of it... and for a very limited time period. 1shot = 1milisecond stunned effect or something. multiple shot will make the AI even go deaf a bit...

just an idea from my end

[Simon C]

The vid's looking nice, but I'm not particularly liking that 'blurred vision near loud weapons' thing, hope it can be disabled. Otherwise, looking good. :)

[luckyhendrix]

I do like everything in this vid !
I think the blured vision is supposed to simulate the fact that IRL you wouldn't want to stand next to a HMG firing because it could be very hurtfull for your hears

[Simon C]

I do like everything in this vid !
I think the blured vision is supposed to simulate the fact that IRL you wouldn't want to stand next to a HMG firing because it could be very hurtfull for your hears

Then your ingame sound volume should be lowered, not your eyesight blurred... Since when have your eyes been part of your hearing? :p

[NeMeSiS]

Just turn up your volume until it hurts your ears. :p

[SaBrE_UK]

If there was a really uncomfortably loud noise near your face I think you might just flinch or want to move away slightly. Since this can't be simulated in-game with high volume, I think a little blur to remind you to move away (and simulate a flinch/discomfort) is reasonable.

[Uglyboy]

If there was a really uncomfortably loud noise near your face I think you might just flinch or want to move away slightly. Since this can't be simulated in-game with high volume, I think a little blur to remind you to move away (and simulate a flinch/discomfort) is reasonable.

I agree, maybe it's not perfect ( Well it's still a Alpha so they may tune it a bit ) but it's a pretty good simulation, limitation considered.

Btw the physic dropped AT4 is a nice touch :) maybe we can have non-rubber bouncing granade too? :rolleyes:

[Durka-Durka]

Concerning the blurred vision next to weapons, I'm getting a lot of "I would think you'd do this and....." vs. "I've been there/done that." Not saying that some opinions aren't valid, but I would naturally listen to the guy who's actually experienced being next to an automatic weapon while it's been fired.

[Firehead]

Overall, I think its well done. I think the blur is meant to do is simulate not necessarily what you hear, but you what you feel when you hear weapons fire without earpro. Now, I've never stood next to a .50 without my earprotection on, but I've been near M249s and M240s without it, and after a few seconds, its so loud you feel like your eardrums are being punched. I never really noticed a ringing in my ears until they stopped. Thats when you hear everything really muffled, and you have a ringing in your ears. Last time it happened to me, they were probably ringing for about a day.

[beita]

The blur when near the MGs seems overdone.

Haven't been around an M2 firing, but the M240 ... yeah, maybe the very first 5 bursts you would be a little nervous or whatever, but hell, after you have been around the thing firing a lot, you don't notice it. Just another loud noise and some toasty brass.

[Cole]

Making the blur slightly less blurry would be perfect. All other features look just great!

btw, is there anything to show about the air refueling system yet? Would be nice if we could see it in another feature video :)

[suhsjake]

Yep, I have shot the M240 with out ear pro, and I must say, yeah, you feel like your ear drums have been punched.

[Durka-Durka]

The blur when near the MGs seems overdone.

Haven't been around an M2 firing, but the M240 ... yeah, maybe the very first 5 bursts you would be a little nervous or whatever, but hell, after you have been around the thing firing a lot, you don't notice it. Just another loud noise and some toasty brass.

LoL, a real accurate simulation would be a jarring effect from hot brass hitting the side of your head if you're to the right of a 240! Followed only be a "ow wow owow OW!" to simulate it going down your shirt.

[Firehead]

LoL, a real accurate simulation would be a jarring effect from hot brass hitting the side of your head if you're to the right of a 240! Followed only be a "ow wow owow OW!" to simulate it going down your shirt.

Brass is ejected from the bottom of the 240, what comes from the right is the links, and they don't fly very far.

Any plan on fixing that? Irritates the snot out of me.

[anfiach]

Bah, I was gonna offer some suggestions but after watching the video a second time and considering different aspects I changed my mind. More great features, keep it up.

[Angle]

So if there is someone on the hmg on a hmmwv and shooting at a threat you cant use it (the vehicle) as cover to shoot yourself. Now thats realistic, not. And logically the driver would go blind of loud sounds(!) if he didn't run away.

i like b00ces idea better. Or why not make ones hearing go BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP for a while once you been to close to a HMG/Cannon on full auto for to long. And that includes the gunner.

Behind BFG = Good!
In front of BFG = Bad.

[jhoson14]

I has minding here...

Dont remember if has sayd here before. If yes; my bad!

But...

Is there a way to make something similar to to Heat Coming from Burining Vehicles and add it to M1A2 Engine?

To simulate he's real heat source near the engine?

On real life is suicide to get close to the rear of a M1 tank.

[Murklor]

A vid featuring some new gear and effects (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPExkMXGqXs&hd=1).
(some features are in WiP state and might be slightly different by release)
Maybe my sound card is just that good alternativly my hearing, but the flashbang sound effect in this video physically hurt my ears.

It's actually pretty bad. If its that sound ingame I would hesitate to play or I'd have to rip off my earphones every time someone pop a flashbang. Realism overkill...

[DirtyCasi]

Hi everybody, I wanted to announce you therefore small addition which would be very much useful, that of a regulator of speed (as on games Red Orchestra) or of a special key so that vehicles move at the same speed as the infantry and so that she can stayed under cover behind.

When you think ?

[tpM]

Maybe my sound card is just that good alternativly my hearing, but the flashbang sound effect in this video physically hurt my ears.

It's actually pretty bad. If its that sound ingame I would hesitate to play or I'd have to rip off my earphones every time someone pop a flashbang. Realism overkill...
Your soundcard is very good indeed :). Its just a simple 8800 hz tone.

[jhoson14]

physically hurt my ears

Well, so we could say that flashbang is very very realistic xD

tpM you are the guy reponsible for the sound right?

Nice Job mate!!

[Maddmatt]

Maybe my sound card is just that good alternativly my hearing, but the flashbang sound effect in this video physically hurt my ears.

It's actually pretty bad. If its that sound ingame I would hesitate to play or I'd have to rip off my earphones every time someone pop a flashbang. Realism overkill...
Seems your sound volume is dangerously loud. If your sound system is set up so that a sound clip from your PC can damage your hearing then you seriously need to turn it down.

[Delta 51]

I don't know about some of you, but there are too many armchair general's in here complaining that "it's not realistic" or "that doesn't happen in real life". It's all good to give them suggestions to make sure it doesn't hinder targeted gameplay, but saying something is not how it is in real life,without any real experience or understanding, will just make you look like an idiot and be laughed at by those whom have such experience.

Keep things constructive and supportive ay?

[SUBS17]

Awesome Vid as Aways!

Since Scuba sayd it has a Machineguner, so must be a M240, 3 Mags, 1 smoke, 1 M67.
If my memory dont fail me...This has the Default on the game.

If has a M249 he would sayd AR (Automatic Rifleman)

2km before a Blackout?

Fair enought to me!

------
PS: Amazaing Flashbang!Cant wait to see the Gas Grenade.

I wonder if perhaps its possible to model different running speeds then there would be better results such as 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%.
It might be similar to the effect of running uphill in Arma you would start off at 100% then through a precalculated distance drop to 75% and then 50% etc.

M240 12.5kg
3x200 rnds belt = 5.4kgx3 = 16.2kg
M67 = .4kg
smoke = .5kg
Total 29.6kg

Not that much weight really although body armour might add 7.4+kg depending on the type.(total 37kg) plus 2 litres of water probably around 39kg.

BTW Those weapon effects are awesome especially the M136 and I like the flash bang effect very cool.:yay:

[Firehead]

Who here can run 2 miles without being severly winded? Who here wieghs over 150 pounds? Well lets add 80 pounds to you, and send you off running at a decent pace...say 6:30 miles? I give most people here not even 500 meters before their legs give out, and they fall on their face. Hell, I'm even going to go out on a limb and say 80% of you can't walk at a decent pace for even a few miles with that much crap on, without falling out. Do you know what kind of energy it takes to maintain control, and grip on a 27lb weapon system while you are RUNNING? You can't pump your arms, and you should be trying to maintain positive muzzle control. I get winded just thinking about it. Alot of things aren't even being accounted for by most of you. What about boots? It takes alot of energy to run in boots. Altitude is also a factor, if you're body isn't used to running at a certain altitude, you get tired faster due to thin air.

[Karazy]

Who here can run 2 miles without being severly winded? Who here wieghs over 150 pounds? Well lets add 80 pounds to you, and send you off running at a decent pace...say 6:30 miles? I give most people here not even 500 meters before their legs give out, and they fall on their face. Hell, I'm even going to go out on a limb and say 80% of you can't walk at a decent pace for even a few miles with that much crap on, without falling out. Do you know what kind of energy it takes to maintain control, and grip on a 27lb weapon system while you are RUNNING? You can't pump your arms, and you should be trying to maintain positive muzzle control. I get winded just thinking about it. Alot of things aren't even being accounted for by most of you. What about boots? It takes alot of energy to run in boots. Altitude is also a factor, if you're body isn't used to running at a certain altitude, you get tired faster due to thin air.

I thought they were going for fun realism...?

[SiC-Disaster]

I thought they were going for fun realism...?

Realism IS fun.

[mr.g-c]

Realism IS fun.
:ok:
Can't agree more, especially when its played in realists set-up missions with people willing to play in strong teamwork.

[Evil_Echo]

Before the stamina wars take off again....

I did say we retuned the system. Retuning implies calibration against some standard. Such as data gleaned from the document, "Navy SEAL Fitness Guide", published by the Uniformed Services University's Department of Military & Emergency Medicine. Using actual research data should put to rest any doubts about ACE's choice of values.

One fact from that document. The maximum recommended pack load for a SEAL is 40% of body weight. That's around 31kg for most warfighters. Also note that a pack mule will sit down if loaded with more that 25% body weight - hence the nickname given to Roman Legion soldiers, "Caesar's Mules".

[jhoson14]

Ah one sugestion ^^

Can you guys remove Via Script the "Space Feature"?

That's anoying to play TvT or even Coop with people using space to find hiding enemys and players. Its a type of cheat on my opnion :X

Since the Mod focus on more realism this would be nice to have this feature removed from the game; or a server side option to enable or desable it without the need of extra scripting.

Pufu must know what i am saying ^^.

Have seen this on CF Tournament and loved.

[SUBS17]

Who here can run 2 miles without being severly winded? Who here wieghs over 150 pounds? Well lets add 80 pounds to you, and send you off running at a decent pace...say 6:30 miles? I give most people here not even 500 meters before their legs give out, and they fall on their face. Hell, I'm even going to go out on a limb and say 80% of you can't walk at a decent pace for even a few miles with that much crap on, without falling out. Do you know what kind of energy it takes to maintain control, and grip on a 27lb weapon system while you are RUNNING? You can't pump your arms, and you should be trying to maintain positive muzzle control. I get winded just thinking about it. Alot of things aren't even being accounted for by most of you. What about boots? It takes alot of energy to run in boots. Altitude is also a factor, if you're body isn't used to running at a certain altitude, you get tired faster due to thin air.

Its not modelling PC gamers to Arma its modelling a real soldiers performance to Arma. IMO when you start a mission in Arma its assumed that your character is fresh on the battlefield unless you're continuing a campaign. Its also assumed that regardless of class your character is 20-27 years old and fighting fit. You have to base the performance off someone who is in the mid to upper level of fitness. If the character is infantry then he should be able to walk long distances with a heavy load because thats what they do.

---------- Post added at 06:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 AM ----------


Before the stamina wars take off again....

I did say we retuned the system. Retuning implies calibration against some standard. Such as data gleaned from the document, "Navy SEAL Fitness Guide", published by the Uniformed Services University's Department of Military & Emergency Medicine. Using actual research data should put to rest any doubts about ACE's choice of values.

One fact from that document. The maximum recommended pack load for a SEAL is 40% of body weight. That's around 31kg for most warfighters. Also note that a pack mule will sit down if loaded with more that 25% body weight - hence the nickname given to Roman Legion soldiers, "Caesar's Mules".

Could that mean then perhaps it might be better to model different SF types since SAS/SBS carry alot more than that in most books I've read. Are you guys modelling body armour as well because I think that will have an effect on the stamina and damage modelling.

[Evil_Echo]

Enough about body armor, SUBS17. Once is a suggestion, twice is a reminder, thrice is harrassment, more than that reason to ignore you forever.

Soldiers in ArmA/ArmA2 carry a fixed amount of armor, as well as boots, helmet, etc. You cannot change that unless you make models of barely clothed
soldiers ( see previous posting that included photo of soldier in pink boxers with hearts ) and then dress them yourself with attached items ala Barbie dolls. That's a huge amount of work by the devs, unlikely to be very popular given the time it already takes just to get a proper weapons load-out now, and very likely to push the rendering engine off the cliff with glitchy rendering of gear trying to keep up with the moving soldier.

[Fisgas]

Yeah stamina wars are on again...

[Evil_Echo]

Yeah stamina wars are on again...

No they are not.


Once is a suggestion, twice is a reminder, thrice is harrassment, more than that reason to ignore you forever.


No one has completed the video challenge. The subject of stamina is now closed until ACE is officially released.

[phaeden]

I just wanted to say to the ACE2 DevTeam, "Hang in there."

I appreciate all that you are doing behind closed doors. I look forward to playing ACE 2 when it is released regardless of if that is in a day or in a year. I know that there are no other games like ArmA2 on the horizon for a long time so I will be able to play the ACE2 version for many years to come.

I encourage you to ignore the petty comments, focus on development and let the pieces fall where they may.

Thanks for your dedication, tenacity and tolerance.

Semper Fi,

Phaeden

[Evil_Echo]

Thanks phaeden, those words are appreciated by all of us.

[andersson]

Could that mean then perhaps it might be better to model different SF types since SAS/SBS carry alot more than that in most books I've read. Are you guys modelling body armour as well because I think that will have an effect on the stamina and damage modelling.

The thing is that yes, you can carry heavy loads in RL, and you can carry heavy loads in ACE. As long as you walk. People that are blacked out in ACE where running and sprinting with 30-50 kg of equipment. You could load up your avatar alot in ACE and move, as long as you walked. And if you re-read your books you will probably realise that the soldiers, however elite, are walking. When they are running they do not carry all that shit they started walking with. And about Chris Ryan you replied about earlier in this thread, he walked all that distance. Try walking that distance in ACE and you will see its possible.

[Alex72]

What he says ^^

Thats exactlly how it is. In ACE1 you could walk your ass off with heavy loads without getting tired at all. You could run as far as you wanted - with the correct load on your back. Not too much, but enough to keep you fighting the rest of a mid to long mission. Sprinting made you pass out at different times depending how much stuff you carried.

Doesnt that sound proper and real? Yes it does somehow. So why the flying fuck are we back to this discussion again?

Daumn.

[stal20048]

To be honest, the fatigued system was perfect before, because if you didnt like it, you could turn it off, simple as :P


Good work so far ACE team, keep it up :D You made ArmA 1 enjoyable for me

[Tonci87]

Why the hell is everybody complaining about the Stamins System? Let ACE2 be released firstand then test it. Only after that you can say if you like it or not

[Vino3]

evil echo, did you make the b61 nuclear bomb system? if so could you please give me a download link for it. I am in need of a GOOD LOOKING nuke for a mission i am working on. This would be appretiated

[Uglyboy]

evil echo, did you make the b61 nuclear bomb system? if so could you please give me a download link for it. I am in need of a GOOD LOOKING nuke for a mission i am working on. This would be appretiated

Do you want some cookeys too? A cup of tea perhaps? :rolleyes:

[scubaman3D]

I just wanted to say to the ACE2 DevTeam, "Hang in there."

I appreciate all that you are doing behind closed doors. I look forward to playing ACE 2 when it is released regardless of if that is in a day or in a year. I know that there are no other games like ArmA2 on the horizon for a long time so I will be able to play the ACE2 version for many years to come.

I encourage you to ignore the petty comments, focus on development and let the pieces fall where they may.

Thanks for your dedication, tenacity and tolerance.

Semper Fi,

Phaeden

Hey bud, where've you been? Pop on skype one of these days for a chat :)

[phaeden]

Basically, "divorce" sums it up nicely.

I will be around now.

[Evil_Echo]

evil echo, did you make the b61 nuclear bomb system? if so could you please give me a download link for it. I am in need of a GOOD LOOKING nuke for a mission i am working on. This would be appretiated

Yes, I made the B61 bomb system.

The B61 is part of ACE2 and will not be available separately.

[nubbin77]

Good to see you Phaeden.

[pete10]

quite excited about this. keep up the great work.

will it come with an afghan type village for desert sernarios?

[anfiach]

The thing is that yes, you can carry heavy loads in RL, and you can carry heavy loads in ACE. As long as you walk. People that are blacked out in ACE where running and sprinting with 30-50 kg of equipment. You could load up your avatar alot in ACE and move, as long as you walked. And if you re-read your books you will probably realise that the soldiers, however elite, are walking. When they are running they do not carry all that shit they started walking with. And about Chris Ryan you replied about earlier in this thread, he walked all that distance. Try walking that distance in ACE and you will see its possible.

That sums it up nicely

[SUBS17]

The thing is that yes, you can carry heavy loads in RL, and you can carry heavy loads in ACE. As long as you walk. People that are blacked out in ACE where running and sprinting with 30-50 kg of equipment. You could load up your avatar alot in ACE and move, as long as you walked. And if you re-read your books you will probably realise that the soldiers, however elite, are walking. When they are running they do not carry all that shit they started walking with. And about Chris Ryan you replied about earlier in this thread, he walked all that distance. Try walking that distance in ACE and you will see its possible.

Actually they ran in the initial contact with their packs following that they ran quite a distance after evading the Iraqis I can't remember the exact distance but it was over 15km with webbing and rifle. The balance to this is the running speed which is either full on or walking and ideally you want to have a speed in between because with a heavy load he can run 2kms. ;)

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------


Why the hell is everybody complaining about the Stamins System? Let ACE2 be released firstand then test it. Only after that you can say if you like it or not

Nobodys complaining we are just merely discussing it.

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------


Enough about body armor, SUBS17. Once is a suggestion, twice is a reminder, thrice is harrassment, more than that reason to ignore you forever.

Soldiers in ArmA/ArmA2 carry a fixed amount of armor, as well as boots, helmet, etc. You cannot change that unless you make models of barely clothed
soldiers ( see previous posting that included photo of soldier in pink boxers with hearts ) and then dress them yourself with attached items ala Barbie dolls. That's a huge amount of work by the devs, unlikely to be very popular given the time it already takes just to get a proper weapons load-out now, and very likely to push the rendering engine off the cliff with glitchy rendering of gear trying to keep up with the moving soldier.

The reason why I asked about the body armour was to see what the weight was you guys were using for your calculations for the stamina and also damage modelling. Another question will the M240 and other MGs have a spare barrel?

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------


Yes, I made the B61 bomb system.

The B61 is part of ACE2 and will not be available separately.

Nice are you guys modelling Flash and EMP effects for the nukes. I'm all for nukes in MP.:D

[Chrisgs]

Love the idea of this mod, but i think ive read somewhere that it doesnt work on the steam version, is that correct, excuse me if this has already been asked, have been looking for an answer everywhere, thanks, ive got the steam download Arma2 patched to 1.4 and would love this, just worrried about compatibility, thanks again.

[PuFu]

Love the idea of this mod, but i think ive read somewhere that it doesnt work on the steam version, is that correct, excuse me if this has already been asked, have been looking for an answer everywhere, thanks, ive got the steam download Arma2 patched to 1.4 and would love this, just worrried about compatibility, thanks again.
There is no difference between the retail version and download version (steam included) in terms of how the addons/mods are handled by the game.
So you will be able to play it, no worries

[Chrisgs]

Thanks for the quick reply pufu, will give it a go, cheers.

[Evil_Echo]

Nice are you guys modelling Flash and EMP effects for the nukes. I'm all for nukes in MP.:D

Not going to discuss the features of the nuclear weapons system. The airchair generals/admirals in this forum would just start lecturing to me about weapons physics. And that would be a "Coals to Newcastle" type of discussion. :smiley-evil:

[Due-_-]

What about this?
http://hx3.de/172869-beitrag10.html

[Gedis]

After drinking quite a lot of beer, i remembered one feature wich i think should be included into ace2.
blast, shock and presure waves and things wich are caused after them, knockouts, unconsciousness, bleeding ears(seriousness of each of this thing is directly related to range from your location).
for example, if a bomb is dropped quite close near you, but not enough to seriously wound you, you will be knocked out of your feets by blast/shock wave and your ears will start to bleed because of presure.
I think this feature would be wonderfull to have in ace2.
Note, it may probably will be a repost of such feature request, but it may serve as a good reminder though ;)

What do you think?

[Due-_-]

For me it sounds awsome.... this is good cause it gives more authentic feelling inside of the battle. Would be nice if we get some more intensive sounds too, like awsome bombdrop sounds like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G--h5ZfWvug or maybe breath sounds when ur tired out from running or such this is the only mod i know this would be nice with

[SUBS17]

Not going to discuss the features of the nuclear weapons system. The airchair generals/admirals in this forum would just start lecturing to me about weapons physics. And that would be a "Coals to Newcastle" type of discussion. :smiley-evil:

Nope just curious you guys have done a great job with your mods so far and I know it would be quite difficult to accurately model a nuke. Now about that spare barrel are you guys modelling spare barrels for MGs? Just asking.:D

[Sky_Line]

Hello, ACE Team! I understand that you are overwhelmed with work and you're trying to make your mod as realistic as possible by adding tons of features. That's great! Thank you guys for that. I understand that it's impossible to include every good idea and every feature (at least in the first release ;) ) but you're well done! Anyway, ACE 1 was great and I've no doubt about ACE 2 becoming even better. I thought it would be amazing to play some WWII missions in ACE. And there are guys from Liberation Mod and Ivasion 44 who are making nice models. So maybe, when you'll have time and if authors of these mods agree, you'll include their works in ACE 2. I know that these mods can be played with ACE, but I guess some features won't work then (like adjustable scopes etc) and weapon physics will be not like in ACE, am I right?

[BigMorgan]

As a noob to the OFP/Arma series I'm wondering if in ACE1 the realism was "tuneable" by the user. Are all features, such as stamina "modelling", always-on or can the user configure what features he or she would like to use, similar to the options in vanilla Arma 2?

Very much looking forward to this mod after all the great things I've heard about ACE1.

[CombatComm]

What sound mod is being used in that video>? is that a standalone sound mod that comes with ACE2?

[tpM]

ACE Soundmod.

[gunterlund21]

Phaeden your back bro... good to see you around again.

[Goodboys]

Sweet.

But my only complaint is that somebody behind the barrel is effected by the gunshot, and yet not the shooter. If somebody behind the shooter is effected by it, shouldn't the shooter himself be effected?

I suggest having a conical shaped zone pointing away from the gun at the muzzle as an effected area, instead of a blob around the shooter.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/booce/MS%20Paint/MG-effected-zone.png

similar to that. :)

This shows the amount of motion blur created by a mounted weapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdaUVG2uEZ0

There seems to be more blurring from behind the weapon than just outside the vehicle, from the 5-6 videos I have looked at.

[Alex72]

Its camera shake. Not blur im sure. (In the video). Camera is ontop of the vehicle and the vehicle shakes when shooting.

[tpM]

I know this 'shooting at targets and trees and posing with weapons' starts getting boring, but it's easier for me :)
ACE2 - Couple of Features 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQDhI5sVxNg&hd=1)

[jhoson14]

OMG

Loved the new weapon models, the M16A4 iron sights are back :D

The only think i asked on this thread has to have she back...and when saw it on the vide almost died from heart atak.

[b00ce]

This shows the amount of motion blur created by a mounted weapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdaUVG2uEZ0

There seems to be more blurring from behind the weapon than just outside the vehicle, from the 5-6 videos I have looked at.

In the ACE vid the screen blurred so bad I felt like Mr. Magoo. In the vid you posted the screen was shaking from the concussion of the gun. I would actually like to see an effect similar. When you're on/ near a MG emplacement there is a slight shake, depending on distance of course, for every round.

Edit:

Also, loved the latest update ACE team. :)

[phaeden]

Hey Gunterlund, good to see you as well!

[BigMorgan]

Wow that teaser vid has me excited for this. The textures on the rifles look great, they look much more the tools of the trade instead of a gun collector's safe queens. Firing RPG's prone, and with elevation adjustments? F'ing fantastic. To be honest I haven't played around with flares enough to notice the difference between vanilla A2 and that video, and glowsticks? We gonna have an Arma rave or something? :p

Can't wait for this mod, and I hope it becomes popular enough to be playable on most public MP servers.

[Brainbug]

One point I'd like to say something about:


Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

I really hate this proverb, it is a blatant lie and evil propaganda to lure people into the armed forces, and has been since Roman times. I can assure you from my family's WW2 experience that is is neither sweet nor rewarding to die for your country, not the least bit at all. Sure it may be cool to play around with hardware or hide&seek in the woods (I do like Arma^^), and there may also be times where it might be necessary to take the risk to die in order to defend values and others' lives, but that is not what this quote implies.

I don't want to start a political discussion here, and I also can't tell you what you put into the mod and what not. But it would be very helpful, if you could keep it modular, so that I can take out the GUI part (which will probably have said quote littered all over the background images) and still can play everything with ACE, even on signed servers. Since the GUI isn't necessary to run any missions, that shouldn't pose any problems, at least it didn't in ACE for Arma1.

[afp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdaUVG2uEZ0 (min 2:29, 3:16)

I just noticed how inaccurate these machines gun really are and the ussual dispersion of the bullets if multiple rounds are fired.
All the mounted machine guns may be too accurate along the whole game... so they were in ArmA1...

PS I think in demo or in the first version of ArmA 2 the dispersion was ok but it was screwed later by a patch or something... I also checked, it does not depends on difficulty.

[Lhowon]

I really hate this proverb, it is a blatant lie and evil propaganda to lure people into the armed forces, and has been since Roman times. I can assure you from my family's WW2 experience that is is neither sweet nor rewarding to die for your country, not the least bit at all. Sure it may be cool to play around with hardware or hide&seek in the woods (I do like Arma^^), and there may also be times where it might be necessary to take the risk to die in order to defend values and others' lives, but that is not what this quote implies.

I've always thought they meant it ironically, at least I really hope so. Wilfred Owen of course said it best (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulce_et_Decorum_Est). But yes, this is not the place for a long political discussion!

[Delta 51]

I don't believe i have seen it posted of demonstrated but are rucksacks going to be in ace2? That's the main system I'm looking forward to.

[Norsu]

Looking good, however I have some nitpicks coming:

-Weapon blur is too strong IMO, my eyes were hurting when I watched the video. It may be so in real life but I don't want a headache when I'm playing a game

-Sight adjustment. While it's a nice feature I think the interface is too clumsy when you want to quickly adjust the sights. With a real HMG it takes about two seconds to adjust the distance sight but at least in ACE1 I just preferred to correct my aiming instead of adjusting sights. For slow paced long range sniping with static targets the interface is sufficient. Maybe a simple vertical slider which can be used with mouse wheel could do for HMGs and other similar weapons.

[anfiach]

I've always thought they meant it ironically, at least I really hope so. Wilfred Owen of course said it best (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulce_et_Decorum_Est). But yes, this is not the place for a long political discussion!

No, I think Patton said it best; "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

[Evil_Echo]

One point I'd like to say something about:

I really hate this proverb, it is a blatant lie
....

I don't want to start a political discussion here, and I also can't tell you what you put into the mod and what not....


I'm sorry your family had a rough time, anyone who has been in real combat knows it changes you.

We intend to provide switches for reasonable feature adjustments. I'm not sure that this request meets the level of reasonable - but no doubt it will be discussed by the developers at least.

ACE2 is a lot more modular and should get along better with more 3rd-party packages. But that does not mean that deleting files from the bundle to "improve" it will work - just use the switches provided please.

[Uglyboy]

Glowsticks and flashlights :yay:
one question about the sandbags: ( i remember how those worked in A1 ) if i will put them on a vehicle will them "stick" to it?
second one: we haven't see anything about backpack ( as already pointed out ) and wound system are you guys preparing something special? :bounce3:

[Yokhanan]

You can also stack up sandbags by using the ARROW UP / DOWN keys or remove built sandbags and put them back into your inventory.

I was wondering if it would be possible to adjust the key assignment for that manually by the player? I'm one of those odd screwballs that use the arrows for movement (go ahead and laugh, I know you all want to :p :o ).

[Uglyboy]

If i'm not mistaken it was possible to manually configure ACE keybind in ACE1, i don't remember where you have to look tho

[sparks50]

X:\ArmA\Dta\ACE\ace_keys.hpp

[Yokhanan]

Yeah I remember that, but I didn't see anything to change for the sandbags. So when I walked forward the sandbag ended up 6 feet in the air, hehe. :p

[anfiach]

A few question and forgive me if I've missed it in other comments:

1. The stadia on the A.C.O.G. appear a bit small, is this just due to the you tube video? It's been 2 years since I've used one but I seem to remember them being slightly larger (or maybe my eyesight has decayed that much)

2. The flare seemed to give a green cast to the terrain resembling the NVG colors in game. Is this intended?

3. What is that back blast sound when firing the RPG, was that loose dirt kicked up?

4. Will the PEQ be functional?


Keep up the great work guys.

[scubaman3D]

A few question and forgive me if I've missed it in other comments:...

1. They are ranged to faux-ArmA balistics based on calculations NoWonderDog described in ArmA1. The stadia lines do not represent RL balistics so its possible they are condensed - so you could be right, but I don't think its significantly different.

2. This is just the standard BIS flare effect.

3. Something like that. The sound you here are the bits that are lethal while standing too close behind the RPG when its fired :)

4. Not initially. The A2 engine does not currently support laser capabilities. It has already been announced that Operation Arrowhead will, so its possible for the future.

[Aelin]

please dont release this mod as "exe"....it is a pain to install,just stick with rar.

[sparks50]

Why not both? :)

[Sky_Line]

I think that exe is the most suitable

[Aelin]

I think that exe is the most suitable

can you explain how to install an "exe"?I got alpinestar launcher...

[Norsu]

Do it like we did with FDFmod for ArmA. A self extracting RAR exe that doubles as an installer which can locate your ARMA2 directory. It will however not add anything to registry and purists can extract it normally just like every other rar file. It should be a solution that fits everyones needs ;).

[Aelin]

hey norsu!I am not a "purist" I am just a NOOB!

[anfiach]

1. They are ranged to faux-ArmA balistics based on calculations NoWonderDog described in ArmA1. The stadia lines do not represent RL balistics so its possible they are condensed - so you could be right, but I don't think its significantly different.

2. This is just the standard BIS flare effect.

3. Something like that. The sound you here are the bits that are lethal while standing too close behind the RPG when its fired :)

4. Not initially. The A2 engine does not currently support laser capabilities. It has already been announced that Operation Arrowhead will, so its possible for the future.
Cool, thanks for the info. I really liked the chem-lite add, nice touch

[Smurf]

About the "exe vs. rar", someone once said that the mod will have somekind of auto-updater tool, if im not mistaken.

Flashlights will blind people, like any other light in the game?

BTW, nice job...

[PuFu]

1. ACE1 came as an exe. That was done to keep things as easy as possible for the new guys in maintaining the MOD folders, etc, as it was even creating a shortcut for you.

2. That same exe, could have been decompressed manually with 7zip (which is free and accessible) or some other compressing software...

So you had both options in 1...


About the "exe vs. rar", someone once said that the mod will have somekind of auto-updater tool, if im not mistaken.
Correct! I guess the Public release will use that as well (all the alpha builds are being spread to devs and testers using the updater tool).

I don't want to get into detail about how the updater tool itself, since it is Sickboy's baby, and he is the most qualified to give details about it...

But, to answer some concerns, the ruby updater will download and place all the content you need in your ArmA2 folder, create a shortcut for you, and afterward, it will really easy to stay up to date with patches and alike, all you would need would be to run the tool.


Flashlights will blind people, like any other light in the game?
Yes

[Aelin]

yes but if it creates a shortcut how to run it with other addons with armalauncher?

[PuFu]

yes but if it creates a shortcut how to run it with other addons with armalauncher?
What does 1 thing got to do with the other?

You can either edit that shortcut that was created and add whatever amounts of mods/addons you like, or in your case, using a launcher (sorry, never used one myself), you can always select from the given list which ones you want to play with, am i right?

[Uglyboy]

one question about the sandbags: ( i remember how those worked in A1 ) if i will put them on a vehicle will them "stick" to it?


Sorry to repost that but since you are here pufu can you.. :rolleyes::D

[sparks50]

That flashlight is gonna be a lot of fun in zombie missions :D

[phaeden]

Brainbug, that Latin phrase is and has always been intend as an irony. I served in the Marines '94-'00 and know all to well the real cost of defending one's country, regardless of the reasons. I specifically selected that quote as the ACE slogan to show the futility or war (which is why it should always and only be played out in video games) and the ignorance of the common man.

If it bothers you, I encourage you to write to your elected representatives and become politically active because the power structure has and always will send young men to die for their causes. We can only change that historic fact if we take power to do so.

[Das Attorney]

-Sight adjustment. While it's a nice feature I think the interface is too clumsy when you want to quickly adjust the sights. With a real HMG it takes about two seconds to adjust the distance sight but at least in ACE1 I just preferred to correct my aiming instead of adjusting sights. For slow paced long range sniping with static targets the interface is sufficient. Maybe a simple vertical slider which can be used with mouse wheel could do for HMGs and other similar weapons.

I see where Norsu's coming from on this one. A mouse driven interface is good enough for snipers (on the first shot) or any kind of barrage weapon (ie - from a reasonably constant distance); but for anyone on the move, or who may have to adjust the windage rapidly, it may prove to be fiddly/cumbersome. The GMJ Sight Adjustment mod got it spot on (using the up/down left/right arrows), so it may be worth looking at mapping it to the keyboard somewhere. I do appreciate the fact though that there will probably be so many features on your mod that it would be difficult to give them all their own key assignments, so fair play if you would like to stick with the mouse menu and let people in a rush to readjust tough it out on the fly :)

[anfiach]

Brainbug, that Latin phrase is and has always been intend as an irony. I served in the Marines '94-'00 and know all to well the real cost of defending one's country, regardless of the reasons. I specifically selected that quote as the ACE slogan to show the futility or war (which is why it should always and only be played out in video games) and the ignorance of the common man.

If it bothers you, I encourage you to write to your elected representatives and become politically active because the power structure has and always will send young men to die for their causes. We can only change that historic fact if we take power to do so.

Careful, I don't think you want to turn this into a political thread.

[sparks50]

I see where Norsu's coming from on this one. A mouse driven interface is good enough for snipers (on the first shot) or any kind of barrage weapon (ie - from a reasonably constant distance); but for anyone on the move, or who may have to adjust the windage rapidly, it may prove to be fiddly/cumbersome. The GMJ Sight Adjustment mod got it spot on (using the up/down left/right arrows), so it may be worth looking at mapping it to the keyboard somewhere. I do appreciate the fact though that there will probably be so many features on your mod that it would be difficult to give them all their own key assignments, so fair play if you would like to stick with the mouse menu and let people in a rush to readjust tough it out on the fly :)

Mousewheel would also be very good.