so 25 fps in chernogorsk missions - on normal and very high [Archive]

garack666

May 28 2009, 22:22

with 4870 1gb oc and quadcore @<hidden> 3.4 +4 gig ram

dont matter if i set normal game settings or very high...25 frames.

so gpu dont limit, but my 3.4ghz quad should not limit too..

so why only 24-26 frames in this mission?

no matter if shadows off or on..only this bad frame rate..so wahts limited cpu cores are max at 80%...bad code?

rstratton

May 28 2009, 22:25

vertical sync on?

ohara

May 28 2009, 22:27

coul be fill rate, what value is fill rate optimizer, try to set it on 100%

garack666

May 28 2009, 22:28

vertical sync on?

nope not on when svycn is on it limit to 30 frams or 60.

garack666

May 28 2009, 22:28

coul be fill rate, what value is fill rate optimizer, try to set it on 100%

fill rate is 100% i even set it to 80% and get under 30 frames.

Ok set all setting to very low... and got only 25-30 frames...so its not the gpu..probably a bug a bad code...

btw its a gamers pc with 15 years game experience and tweaked vista, no other software like ac or fw running, raptor hd ect..other games run very fine, crysis mmporgs whatever..

sidhellfire

May 28 2009, 22:33

Doesn't your ATI CCC use own "quality" settings, or it is set up to let application decide?

garack666

May 28 2009, 22:43

aplication decide no force aa or af or adaptive, btw tried with 9.5 and got the same results, bevore was 9.4

must be bad code cause gpu dont limmit as i said, no matter if very low with 50% or very high with 100% , ok 150% and i got 10 frame:

garack666

May 28 2009, 23:26

Double Post cause u have Solution.

Its like a said a bug..bad code..

Solution: Save the game. Load it. And have 10-15 Frames more and not the 27 frames cap..Problems begins when missions start -) There you have to search the bug. ;)

Edit:and get next bug: the ki dont recognize me anymore...

NeoArmageddon

May 29 2009, 07:30

Framerate rises after reload BECAUSE the AI dont recognize you anymore...

Rebel@heart

May 29 2009, 10:50

Framerate rises after reload BECAUSE the AI dont recognize you anymore...

man, i hope the patch solves that.

is it 100% reproducible for you? that means, if you go into editor and place AI, save and reload, they always become inactive?

NeoArmageddon

May 29 2009, 10:56

man, i hope the patch solves that.

is it 100% reproducible for you? that means, if you go into editor and place AI, save and reload, they always become inactive?

I dont have ArmA2 yet, but the postcar is at the other end of the street... but in the other threads they say its reproduceable :eek:

garack666

May 29 2009, 11:56

man, i hope the patch solves that.

is it 100% reproducible for you? that means, if you go into editor and place AI, save and reload, they always become inactive?

cant say it because i cant save while i play in editor, in my difficulty profile kadett save is enabled but its gray in menü. so save is impossible in editor for me.

in missions and scenarios yes 100%.

Strange too is that when the ki is enabled the first time i max got 27 frames. when it is disabled i got 30-45 frames on 3.4 Ghz Q6600... the ki eats my quad and you need a 4 ghz + machine in order to run arma with more then 30 frames? cant believe it..

soldier9945

Jun 2 2009, 10:29

Hi, I've experienced the same on the third singleplayer mission called "Gegenangriff" I think... When you're in that BMP going to that village where resistance hides.

Well, I have checked GPU and CPU activity while gaming (on my G15 LCD display with RivaTuner). Both CPU cores are close to 100%, while both GPUs are at about 80%.

I also tested a game with alot of KI, which is a port of a OFP ingleplayer mission called "Battlefield" where lots of units are in a large field... I have better fps there than in that village.

I think there's something wrong in the code. Could still be the AI because if I get closer to the ennemy line in that OFP mission port, performance also goes down (can't remember how much FPS though).

My system specs:

C2D E8400@<hidden>
P5Q Deluxe
4GB DDR2
Radeon 4870X2 - 2GB
X-Fi ExtremeGamer
Windows Se7en x64

PS: I activated crossfire support by using the "-winxp" tag to launch the game.
Without it, only one GPU is processing (then at 100% most of the time) and I loose ~20 FPS in the main menu scene for example.

I hope the performance will improve with future patch releases. Please tell us if you're also experiencing such problems. I hope BI will listen and make this game the best of its genre out there :P (It's already the best in everything, but performance :( )

dkd

Jun 3 2009, 12:52

In my case the game runs rather smoothly (23-35fps) but very rarely there were some freezes in certain "difficult" areas and it could drop to 17-19fps just for instant. Nonetheless, I found the average fps quite playable untill I started Chernogorsk mission. At once I had the considerable decrease in fps and the worst thing was that I saw the huge texture lags (2-8 sec.) and moreover some objects were not beeing depicted in right way even I was staring them for a while. I had to quit playing the campaign because of such the enormous texture lags totally kill the immersion into the game. The lowering of the video memory&texture settings does not seem to give me the wishful result - fps increased insignificantly and the lags still there. I never saw it neither in boot camp missions nor scenario missions which I've already tried. My guess is that it is some kind of
malfunction of the game and I hope it will be fixed by patches or new video drivers in the nearest future.
Go back to Arma I game I saw the LOD there but it was a short-time lack which I got used to see and
and rather soon I stopped to pay attention to it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WINXP64/Q9300/4870 512MB/RAM4GB/1680x1050/patch 1.1beta/all=very high settings/distance view=2000/fillrate 100%

P.S. The author of this thread made a mistake in spelling the name of the town, the right one is Chernogorsk.I suppose it comes from the shortening the russian words "cherniy" means black and "gora" means a mountain,the whole meaning is "the town of Black Mountain" ;-) Can somebody fix the misprint otherwise it's impossible to find the name of mission by using "Search" on forum.
.....And sorry in advance for my mistakes in this post!!!

Skeptic

Jun 3 2009, 18:03

Chernogorsk kills my rig in MP. Always below 25fps...

dkd

Jun 3 2009, 19:23

Skeptic

Jun 3 2009, 19:31

Beside low fps have you ever seen the texture lag when the proper textures will start to appear if only you have been staring the object for a while or even they will never be load in the proper way, for instance just a vague square instead of hi-res wall texture of a fence etc.

I solved this problem in Arma1 in expensive manner - GPU with 1GB VRAM and RAID0 with two Solid State Drives (OCZ Vertex) pushing 460MB/s in sequential reads and 0.2ms access time.

Now, in Arma2 it is like when I had Arma1 with conventional drive and 512MB VRAM. There is another issue in Arma2 with textures and LOD. Even after high-res textures loaded - they keep flickering on some buildings between high res/low res even if I don't move/zoom/use optics. Really annoying. There is reddish fence in Chernogorsk near T-34 monument that actually doesn't load high-res texture at all... :confused:

Striker [GER]

Jun 3 2009, 19:38

I can confirm this - something limits the FPS sometimes.
Several trees and other objects also cause a huge FPS drop.
If I spawn my unit in a forest with different trees or next to another building it's fine. :crazy:
LOD's or Shaders maybe ? I'm not an expert :plain:
Q6600
GTX260
2GB RAM

It should perform better :bored:

JimmyB

Jun 3 2009, 21:45

I've ran into the same "limit" as well while playing the campaign. Just tried out the start of the Manhattan mission, and my fps never goes over 26fps regardless of settings.

2fps difference between lowest settings and 50% FR vs. everything 'Very High' and 100% FR:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/771/arma22009060322265537.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6339/arma22009060322283246.jpg

And just a handful of frames between everything maxed @<hidden> 150% FR, and everything low/off at 800x600, 50% FR

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5571/arma22009060322291057.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/641/arma22009060322302714.jpg

Obviously this screams bottleneck, presumably because of the number of AI units during the campaign, especially the larger missions like Manhattan. I know a stock Q6600 isn't top of the line these days but surely it's not that bad already? Along with the quad-core I've got 3GB RAM and a 4870 1GB.

telejunky

Jun 3 2009, 22:30

Yeah this scenrey seems to be caused by "low cpu performance" but you already got a decent quad...I hope the make performance as a "feature" in the next patch.

Same thign to me nearly no difference if i enable the beautiful gras or not with my HD 4850 so it think it is caused by the CPU. But why even the core i7 are not enough for hungry arma2 ?

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,685661/Armed-Assault-2-Grafikkarten-Benchmarks-plus-Optikvergleich/Rennspiel-Sportspiel-Simulation/Test/

Look at the table. So i think my cpu 4850e @<hidden> 2,7 Ghz is powerful enough but maybe there are some nasty faults in the code?

NKato

Jun 3 2009, 22:46

They really need to boost CPU usage for quad cores, because not doing that is just silly.

Skeptic

Jun 3 2009, 23:17

I've ran into the same "limit" as well while playing the campaign. Just tried out the start of the Manhattan mission, and my fps never goes over 26fps regardless of settings.

2fps difference between lowest settings and 50% FR vs. everything 'Very High' and 100% FR:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/771/arma22009060322265537.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6339/arma22009060322283246.jpg

And just a handful of frames between everything maxed @<hidden> 150% FR, and everything low/off at 800x600, 50% FR

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5571/arma22009060322291057.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/641/arma22009060322302714.jpg

Wow, no GPU scaling while dropping settings? That needs to be addressed. Thanks for benchmarks.

Partybooper

Jun 3 2009, 23:18

@<hidden>:

I can confirm this as well. 23 FPS maxed out @<hidden> 3800m view distance & 100% Fillrate. No matter where I go and how many AIs are running around. Just very few more when I reduce the details to the lowest (!) settings.
It has to be a bug, I can't believe this is the regular performance of the game...

Intel Core i7 920
Asus P6T Deluxe
6GB OCZ DDR3 1600 8-8-8-24
XFX GTX 285 XXX
Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB

Platform: Vista x64 SP2

I tried 3 different nVidia drivers as well, 182.50, 185.85 and 186.06 Beta. All with the same lame result.

Skeptic

Jun 3 2009, 23:25

Added to bug tracker (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/1770).

pclipse

Jun 3 2009, 23:45

That's good. Because this is total fail. I mean Even I'm getting HORRIBLE results. And I have an 8800GT, so who knows if it won't be better by the time the North American release is out?

Will the North American release be "new" "patched"?

ziiip

Jun 4 2009, 19:01

Same here, FPS in intense missions and MP are always hovering @<hidden> mid-twenty FPS, both on very low and very high.

Skeptic

Jun 4 2009, 19:14

POTS

Jun 4 2009, 19:34

OK folks, if anyone is using non-official English patch by replacing original language pbo's - you might be triggering FADE - copyright protection. Some suggested to create mod folder instead of replacing pbo's directly. Also make sure that 1.01 beta is applied on top of original language pbo's...

So your saying this horrible performance is being caused by an accidental activation of fade? If it is just that, thank god, because nobody with an HD4870 should be having that bad of performance. Thats like, insane. Although, bis needs to really fix the performance for the AI and CPU. Whats the point in claiming "multi-core" when there is no difference between that and ArmA1 single cpu.

Skeptic

Jun 4 2009, 19:44

So your saying this horrible performance is being caused by an accidental activation of fade? If it is just that, thank god, because nobody with an HD4870 should be having that bad of performance. Thats like, insane. Although, bis needs to really fix the performance for the AI and CPU. Whats the point in claiming "multi-core" when there is no difference between that and ArmA1 single cpu.

This is not 100% certain, but many think they did activate FADE by this. FADE would totally screw up your image and performance...

JimmyB

Jun 4 2009, 20:01

I'm running the language patch as a mod, and even with it disabled there doesn't appear to be any difference.

It's definitely CPU-related I think. When you find yourself bottlenecked to that 26fps limit, press ESC to the pause menu, and your FPS will suddenly jump to level that it should be at. Your FPS while paused will be directly proportional to your settings and what's currently on screen (ie. much higher if you're looking at the sky). I'm assuming this is because while the game's paused your GPU is still rendering the scene, but all the AI/scripting is on hold, freeing up your CPU. If I open up the editor and wander around an empty Chenarus I'm getting 40-50fps maxed out, in the exact same areas where I'll be limited to 26fps during the campaign (everything set to low).

joethe33

Jun 4 2009, 20:04

I've also reinstalled the game + patch, without the language files set up as a mod or anything. Still the same performance. Doubtful of FADE.

PuFu

Jun 5 2009, 00:47

confirmed on 2 different rigs.
e6600 @<hidden> 3Ghz, GTX 260 216. 4GB ram
e8400 stock, 8800GT, 4GB ram

more or less same results as everyone else above
Editor is one thing *even with AI in the scene* and the campaign is another. Changing settings doesn't do any good, the FPS difference is around 3 by changing from lowest settings to highest (and even messing with fillrate from lower to higher). I got 40+ stable FPS on both machines in the editor on everything on High.

@<hidden>: please stop throwing the FADE remark around, as it has nothing to do with the language pack everyone seems to be using. It will NOT trigger it. (only by modifying the exe file you will)

Skeptic

Jun 5 2009, 00:54

@<hidden>: please stop throwing the FADE remark around, as it has nothing to do with the language pack everyone seems to be using. It will NOT trigger it. (only by modifying the exe file you will)Rgr that.

Dimmis80

Jun 5 2009, 07:04

The game Crashes to desktop all the time.Every 10-20 minutes when i play it crashes.Some times with a message about it needs more memory on KB or something.My system is a Core 2 Quad 6600,4 GB DDR 2 1066,2 Radeon 3870 512 MB each on Crossfire and i play the games on a 22" 1680x1050.I have the latest drivers, patch 1.1,Service pack 2 on vista.It says Out of memory (requested 1708 KB) Reserved 294212 KB Total Free 10397 KB Free Blocks 139,Max Free size 1595 KB when crashes..Anyone knows a solution to that.!??

JimmyB

Jun 5 2009, 14:20

At this point I'm wondering if there's anyone who can load up Manhattan (for consistency's sake) and get anything above 26fps. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was something that affected everyone - whether they know it or not.

Suma

Jun 5 2009, 14:39

This is not 100% certain, but many think they did activate FADE by this. FADE would totally screw up your image and performance...

No, it would not. When illegal copy is detected, performance and stability does not degrade - that is unless the ones removing the copy protection layer modified the exe so that it is no longer stable, which is something we have no control over.

If you use the original exe, performance and stability are guaranteed to be not affected. All symptoms of illegal copies degrading are gameplay oriented only.

ComadeR

Jun 6 2009, 17:01

I've same problem with my 4850 1gb and Phenom x4 920 2.8ghz

Cionara

Jun 6 2009, 17:17

When I set me in chernogorsk with the editor I got 60 fps almost all the time, and 45 minimum.

But in singleplayer when there's AI it drops to very low FPS like said before.

I got 4128 points in the ArmaII-Mark.

Turin Turambar

Jun 6 2009, 17:45

I can also confirm this, there is something in this city and the AI that limits heavily the framerate.

mr.g-c

Jun 7 2009, 11:02

Can confirm it here also. Is there a ticket about it already in the bugtracker?

Lee82UK

Jun 7 2009, 14:25

Yes there is a bug in the tracker here: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/1770
Please 'vote' for the bug if it affects you! Hopefully BIS are prioritising bugs based on votes?

Skeptic

Jun 8 2009, 19:10

No, it would not. When illegal copy is detected, performance and stability does not degrade - that is unless the ones removing the copy protection layer modified the exe so that it is no longer stable, which is something we have no control over.

If you use the original exe, performance and stability are guaranteed to be not affected. All symptoms of illegal copies degrading are gameplay oriented only.

Thank you for finally putting this FUD to rest!

Steinfisch

Jun 8 2009, 19:57

I think you cannot increase the performance to be comparable with Crysis, CoD under the current hardware conditions. There are too many jobs to do in just a few milliseconds: Render thousands of objects, including grass..., calculate lightning conditions, the shadows, the physics including such things as the movement of the exhaust pipes hatch at trucks, the visibility of actors among each other, the large amount of active scripts....

look at the very simple samples of the DirectX SDK and you will see how difficult it is.

I would be glad, if they just would eliminate the real bugs like crashes and script errors.

tonedog12

Dec 12 2009, 21:24

i assume no work has been done on this issue with the beta patches?

jasonnoguchi

Dec 13 2009, 01:30

I don't think so. I have the latest beta patch and manhattan is still 25fps for me in most places. I get about 45 to 50fps in the same places in editor. Bottleneck definitely on the AI.

Dead3yez

Dec 13 2009, 01:36

Same here, FPS in intense missions and MP are always hovering @<hidden> mid-twenty FPS, both on very low and very high.

Me too.

Whether I put my settings on very low or very high it doesn't make a difference. It's insane. This only seems to happen in intense MP though, I think.

jasonnoguchi

Dec 13 2009, 01:42

@<hidden> - happens in SP as well. I get little to no fps change in manhattan with extremely high and extremely low settings.

tonedog12

Dec 13 2009, 09:52

well at least i now know its not just me then. i wonder why no work has been done on this issue with the beta patches?

Dead3yez

Dec 13 2009, 10:09

Atar

Dec 13 2009, 14:30

25-30 FPS

Does it depend on visibility range settings? Just trying to get if visibility range settings effect AI calculations, maybe radius within which AI units are involved.
(I do not have the game yet, although the problems I read about here are very similar to ones I had in ArmA1 back then)

jasonnoguchi

Dec 13 2009, 14:57

^.. same for me at 500m and 8000m VD.

-=seany=-

Dec 13 2009, 15:36

As far as I've noticed so far it only has happened in multiplayer for me. There is something some stopping me from getting more than around 25-30 FPS. No matter if my settings are high or very low, I cannot pass the 30FPS boundary. Domination is one of the only missions I know that causes this every time.

The ticket/issue on dev-heaven is marked as rejected.

I cant tell if it is the server or the client that is controlling the Max FPS in online coops when there are alot of AI present. I do find it surprising that the clients seem to have to calculate the AI the same as the server does. I have also asked other people when online if they can get higher than my max fps and some say yes.

Try hosting and playing a domination mission on your own pc, you will see your FPS are exactly the same as when playing on a server.

I also have discovered that certain amounts of AI cause a CPU limited FPS wall of 25-30fps eg:

30 AI = 45FPS (turning down my GFX/VD will increase it)
60 AI = 30FPS (turning down gfx/VD does nothing for FPS)
90 AI =28 -30fps (Lowering gfx/VD again does nothing)

Technically this quite a good feature as it is like the game can tell when you are getting to low FPS and start scaling back the calculations, or somthing.

However, my main disappointment is that online the severs are not taking the brunt of AI calculations as I thought they would. They just seem to handle network traffic and that's it.

DokiDoki

Dec 13 2009, 16:24

I have it also, but not AI related or at least it seems. If I only load Chernarus in the editor it goes already something between 20 - 25 fps no matter where. Can go lower even in cities. Does not matter wether I play on full settings or lowest. The fps difference is only around 2 or 3 or so.

Utes runs a lot better, but where I get real good performance is with CAA1 on Sahrani (also United Sahrani with quite some AI). I get there a nice FPS which is between 40 - 60 depending on situation full settings. Arma 2 performs here actually better for me than Arma 1.

ModeZt

Dec 13 2009, 16:56

Maybe we should report it into the bugtracker? I can't belive it's normal that client's fps is limited by the number of AIs on the server.

.kju [PvPscene]

Dec 13 2009, 21:05

Did you make sure V-Snyc is off?

Dead3yez

Dec 15 2009, 00:59

Try hosting and playing a domination mission on your own pc, you will see your FPS are exactly the same as when playing on a server.

I also have discovered that certain amounts of AI cause a CPU limited FPS wall of 25-30fps eg:

30 AI = 45FPS (turning down my GFX/VD will increase it)
60 AI = 30FPS (turning down gfx/VD does nothing for FPS)
90 AI =28 -30fps (Lowering gfx/VD again does nothing)

I ran the domination on my PC, during the intro I am getting about 50FPS on normal settings, very soon after I believe AI starts to spawn, then again I am limited to about 30FPS.

After reading your post I did some tests with AI, placed about 15 groups each with a simple waypoint on utes. Was limited with FPS again, whether settings were on very high or very low, this made no difference. With about 30 AI there were no dramatic effects on performance, only what should be expected.

I am running:

Phenom II 965 BE X4 @<hidden> 3.55Ghz
4GB DDR3 ram
260GTX 896mb
X-fi extreme gamer
XP32
@<hidden> 1920x1200

All with latest BIOS, drivers etc.

[edit]
Suggestion made in suggestions section:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=91860

Also you can find there a link to the issue tracker where you can vote.

galzohar

Jan 9 2010, 00:40

In the city I made, the FPS difference is very clear between running the mission on my PC that needs to handle both the AI and the graphics, as opposed to running it on some dedicated server so my PC only needs to handle the graphics. The latter gives pretty much the same FPS for me as if there were no AI in there. Also since it's dense it needs a lot less AI to start causing FPS drops - max I could get on the dedicated server while keeping FPS above 20 is 75, max I could get offline is ~35 (that is, when each unit is in its own group, otherwise the maximum number of AI is lower).

Also, when FPS drops are caused by AI you see it spiking like crazy even though there aren't any textures loading, probably because AI calculations only happen once in a while but when they happen they take a lot of CPU power.

Using i7-920 at stock clock here and an HD4890, running textures/objects on "high", PP effects off and everything else on max, 3500 VD. I could max everything out when playing in the open and/or in small towns, but then I'd have some FPS drops in Chernogorsk and in the city I made (which surprisingly isn't a lot more intense than Chernogorsk graphics-wise).

jasonnoguchi

Jan 9 2010, 02:50

It sounds like you have a HDD bottleneck there. Chernogork has a LOT of textures loading and textures are bottlenecked at the HDD for high end rigs.

Yapab

Jan 9 2010, 14:54

Never saw this thread but would like to say that I've had the same problem.

In the towns/cities the FPS is never past 24.... however in a dense forest the FPS is 60+.

Also in the campaign the fps is always around 20-24... never more even on LOW settings, very annoying and hard to play :(

Bono_LV

Jan 9 2010, 15:58

Same problem here.

And some weird findings.

-) If I join "Hold" game type server where is no AI, performance is soooo smooth. Never drops below 40 fps, with exception - big cities. There I have same magic number - 24 fps. Sad that there is only few "Hold" servers.

-) If I join in progress to CTI server. Yup. 24 fps. But if I join CTI server from mission start - performance is smooth for some time. But it becomes worse with each minute.

-) If I join COOP Evolution/Domination to empty server - performance is actually good. But if there's already about 15-30 other players, performance can change from acceptable to bad.

Did you make sure V-Snyc is off?
Yes.

So from my experience I can make some guesses.

-) There must be done some graphics/models/shaders optimizations for buildings.

-) Playing multiplayer, clientside still utilizes cpu for AI calculations.

-) Serverside limits clientside max fps. I believe for solving some desync problems.

Perhaps last two guesses happens at the same time. I do not state that I'm talking true, I'm just guessing and sugesting developers to test some things.