Uh-60 hovering attitude

[LeftSkidLow]

I'm wondering (if I can figure out how in 02) if I change the attitude of the UH-60 to slightly tail low, how it will affect the ground contacts. I want to make the arma UH-60 a bit more realistic and easier to see out of. A real UH-60 hovers with the tail at least a few feet lower then the nose. In arma, the tail and nose are level in a hover, but the real problem comes when the flying the arma UH-60 in forward flight, because it hovers level, it flys at speed with the nose excessively low, which puts that stupid crossbeam in the window blocking the pilots view.

Here a few examples of what i mean, look for the tail low attitude in a hover:

Crappy video, and nothing happens until 5:10 so just let it load and jump to that time, you will definitely see the tail low.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nVJdftz_SKk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D1BKfQdybAQ
Fast forward to 1:15 to see the hover

[LeftSkidLow]

I was able to get the mlod into o2 and put and rotate the model 7 degrees where I wanted it but it wont load in arma. I used someones UH-60 retex, and just replaced their uh_60mg.p3d with my edited mlod. Arma crashes and says "cannot open file blablabla/uh_60mg.p3d"

Any help would be appreciated.

[LeftSkidLow]

OMG I don't even know what to think of this, It won't even move now.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/880/h60editrn5.jpg

[[APS]Gnat]

You will be able to change the whole setup to hover as you want, but this will mean a 1) complete new UH60 2) Chopper that takes off movin forward early 3) Chopper that contacts ground tail first and "falls" forward on the front wheels.

You might be able remove some of the visual effects by using dampers so it looks like almost 3 point touch down, but I think the amount you want to tilt is too much.

There is another way except its a little complicated.
I have discovered you can animate the WHOLE model/vehicle (havent found all the side effects yet, if any)
If you "trim" or tilt the whole model at say "Altitude> 5" it will appear to hover as you want until just before it touches down.
Using this method what it will look like cruising I'm not sure but you are likely the "un-animate" the trim with another overlaying animation linked to something like "speed > 10"
Beware that this method *may* make the chopper much harder to fly.

[LeftSkidLow]

Gnat @<hidden> Jan. 04 2008,17:44)]You will be able to change the whole setup to hover as you want, but this will mean a 1) complete new UH60 2) Chopper that takes off movin forward early 3) Chopper that contacts ground tail first and "falls" forward on the front wheels.

You might be able remove some of the visual effects by using dampers so it looks like almost 3 point touch down, but I think the amount you want to tilt is too much.

There is another way except its a little complicated.
I have discovered you can animate the WHOLE model/vehicle (havent found all the side effects yet, if any)
If you "trim" or tilt the whole model at say "Altitude> 5" it will appear to hover as you want until just before it touches down.
Using this method what it will look like cruising I&#39;m not sure but you are likely the "un-animate" the trim with another overlaying animation linked to something like "speed > 10"
Beware that this method *may* make the chopper much harder to fly.
First, thanks for replying Gnat, I thought I was all on my own. I&#39;m not sure what you mean by #1, but if you mean I will have to change all the LODs, I already did that. #2 and #3, are actually part of what I&#39;m trying to achieve (especially 3), as thats how they really fly. I&#39;m not set on the amount of tilt yet, but the tail can hang as low as 8 ft below the nose in a hover in a real UH-60.

Right now though, its like it doesn&#39;t even know its a helicopter, it wont takeoff or move or anything, none of the animations or textures work. I don&#39;t know what to do for it to fly again.




Btw if anyone is interested here is a video of my latest sound modding from real UH-60 sounds.
http://files.filefront.com/h60armasoundwmv/;9380909;/fileinfo.html

[Max Power]

I don&#39;t have any advice to offer to help, but I&#39;m following your project closely. That video is excellent. The interior noise of the uh60 is superb- just consider VON and other commos. Where did you get the rotor noise for the uh60, btw?

[LeftSkidLow]

Thanks plaintiff, the rotor noise is from youtube actually, from a US Customs H-60 (this video to be exact http://youtube.com/watch?v=D1BKfQdybAQ)

The engine volume on the inside was definitely too loud in the video, I&#39;ve turned it down some already, but nothing is finalized yet. I just uploaded another video to filefront with all my heli sounds, most of them you have probably heard before in my other threads, just a few changes, the littlebirds and cobras have internal sounds now and a few other minor things. I&#39;m going to post in addons asking for someone to write me a config and then release, I guess I&#39;ll release them standalone and if guys want to integrate them into fdf, modwar, chammy, etc. then thats up to them. I personally just use an FDF config.

[RKSL-Rock]

Im not sure if this works in ArmA but in OFP you used to be able to adjust the neutral pitch using the Rotordive command:

BIKI - Config_Reference...RotorDive (http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/CfgVehicles_Config_Reference#...RotorDive)

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> minMainRotorDive = -9; // CH47D
maxMainRotorDive = 15;
neutralMainRotorDive = -5;
minBackRotorDive = -15;
maxBackRotorDive = 9;
neutralBackRotorDive = -5;
[/QUOTE]

[LeftSkidLow]

Hmm interesting RockofSL, I&#39;m not even sure where to put those lines, must be a cpp for the uh60 somewhere.

[Planck]

Those lines are still in ArmA, they are in the base Helicopter class in the bin.pbo config.bin:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">
class Helicopter&#58; Air
{
...
...
...
etc
maxMainRotorDive = 0;
maxBackRotorDive = 0;
minMainRotorDive = 0;
minBackRotorDive = 0;
neutralBackRotorDive = 0;
neutralMainRotorDive = 0;
...
...
...
etc
};
[/QUOTE]


I imagine you can just add them to your helicopter config, slotting in the numbers you require.

The CH47D, which inherited from Helicopter class used the following values:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">
minMainRotorDive=-9;
maxMainRotorDive=15;
neutralMainRotorDive=-5;
minBackRotorDive=-15;
maxBackRotorDive=9;
neutralBackRotorDive=-5;
[/QUOTE]


Planck

[RN Malboeuf]

Helicopter&#39;s flight parameters (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=80;t=67914)
You may want to check this topic too.
From my experience &#39;RotorDive&#39; parameters seem to be useless... ((

[Planck]

Quote[/b] ]
From my experience &#39;RotorDive&#39; parameters seem to be useless... ((



Works fine for me in O2, even can see them working in buldozer along with other animations.

EDIT: Of course the model.cfg has to be set up right for them to work properly.


Planck

[RN Malboeuf]

Quote[/b] ]Works fine for me in O2, even can see them working in buldozer along with other animations.
ghm... You want to say that you can see any changes in _buldozer_  after modifying these parameters ?
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> maxMainRotorDive = 0;
maxBackRotorDive = 0;
minMainRotorDive = 0;
minBackRotorDive = 0;
neutralBackRotorDive = 0;
neutralMainRotorDive = 0;[/QUOTE]
really interesting... or you just misunderstood me ?

[RN Malboeuf]

ok, i get it. there&#39;s animation source "rotorHDive". if i understand you corectly with this animation we can achieve that only rotor will pitch forward not the whole helicopter body ?

[Planck]

Yes, the model.cfg entries are needed to make it work, but, if the entries in the config are not there then the AI will fly the chopper without changing the rotor angle at all.

The rotors will remain at a steady horizontal attitude to the chopper body.The chopper makes large nose up and nose down movements to slow down and speed up.

With those lines in the config you can actually see the whole rotor assembly change angle when the chopper speeds up or slows down and the chopper doesn&#39;t need to put its nose down or up at quite such a large angle

I just tried it both with and without. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif


Planck

[RKSL-Rock]

Yes, the model.cfg entries are needed to make it work, but, if the entries in the config are not there then the AI will fly the chopper without changing the rotor angle at all.

The rotors will remain at a steady horizontal attitude to the chopper body.The chopper makes large nose up and nose down movements to slow down and speed up.

With those lines in the config you can actually see the whole rotor assembly change angle when the chopper speeds up or slows down and the chopper doesn&#39;t need to put its nose down or up at quite such a large angle

I just tried it both with and without.   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif


Planck
any chance of an example of the animation settings? ie what to name ? The entire rotor? And of course the model.cfg definition?

[RN Malboeuf]

And if define maxMainRotorDive = 90; or smth ? Will helicopter body stay horizontal in flight ?
then a solution for that MV-22 is found  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
Gnat, you only need to define those engines for rotorHDive animation ))

[T_D]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">class RotorHDive
{
type = rotationX;
source = rotorHDive;
selection = &#34;velka vrtule&#34;;
axis = &#34;predni osa naklonu&#34;;
minValue = rad -90;
maxValue = rad +90;
angle0 = rad -90;
angle1 = rad +90;
};
class RotorVDive&#58; RotorHDive
{
selection = &#34;mala vrtule&#34;;
axis = &#34;zadni osa naklonu&#34;;
source = rotorVDive;
};[/QUOTE]

You need more? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[RKSL-Rock]

No thats all thanks. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

[[APS]Gnat]

then a solution for that MV-22 is found http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
Gnat, you only need to define those engines for rotorHDive animation ))
Well the solution i have works quite fine.
I&#39;d suggest this solution is less effective (for the v-22, not the uh-60) because i have LESS control over the hows and the whens of the tilt etc.

[LeftSkidLow]

OK I tried changed the rotordive config values and it seems to only change the angle of the rotor as far as animation is concerned, it doesn&#39;t have any influence on where the thrust is vectored or how the attitude of the fuselage in a hover.

I did finally get my edited model to fly somewhat, I guess I needed to add weight to the geometry LOD, as everything there said 0. Now I have to figure out how to make animations and textures work, these configs are so freaking confusing, I don&#39;t know how people do this. I copy and paste stuff but It always gives me errors and won&#39;t load

[RN Malboeuf]

Quote[/b] ]I&#39;d suggest this solution is less effective
we are still waiting for Planck to prove that this is a solution at all http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif if it&#39;s working this way then it at least deserve a try...

[[APS]Gnat]

we are still waiting for Planck to prove that this is a solution at all
Planck don&#39;t have to prove shyt.


Quote[/b] ]if it&#39;s working this way then it at least deserve a try...
Not likely so far, I don&#39;t see enough viable parameters to even start.

@<hidden>
This changed chopper dynamics in OFP .... maybe it still does in ArmA ?
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> // inserted by Vipersheart 021900nov05
// this will prevent the LAAT from rolling/steering too much
minMainRotorDive=-30;
maxMainRotorDive=20;
neutralMainRotorDive=0;
//end insert
[/QUOTE]

[RN Malboeuf]

Quote[/b] ]Planck don&#39;t have to prove
i guess it&#39;s up to Plank to decise whether he is interested...
Anyway i just tried http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
i defined those  engine gondolas for rotorHDive animation on mv-22
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">minMainRotorDive=-90;
maxMainRotorDive=90;
neutralMainRotorDive=0;[/QUOTE]
And i got a bit strange result...  When AI is pilot, it works like  a charm - heli is steady in the flight - only gondolas moving up-down. But player is pilot - i can only tilt the  whole heli body with keybord controls...  am i missing smth ?


Quote[/b] ]This changed chopper dynamics in OFP .... maybe it still does in ArmA ?
We are discussing these values for last dozen posts... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

PS I didn&#39;t manage to get it flying faster then 210 kmph though http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif I thought it&#39;s about mass, but whatever i do - i got rather slow heli http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif

[RN Malboeuf]

minMainRotorDive=-90; //&#39;accelerate&#39; dive forward. Higher (modulo) value means less pitch
maxMainRotorDive=10; //&#39;brake&#39; dive. Higher (modulo) value means less pitch
I guess it&#39;s quite the same about rolling with two other parameters.
But as i said it only affects ai -there&#39;s no way to change rtorDive with player controls