Operation Flashpoint 2 officially announced

[EricM]

Wow... that video is kinda disappointing... you don't see a thing with the scope on and... well the rest has been said about the animations etc...

Each time I see something new about OFP2 I feel a bigger gap growing between the dev hype and the reality...

This isn't looking too good for the future...

[Opteryx]

Awesome, it looks like crap.

[Migel]

Its 2 bad this movie was dissapointing.
Was looking forward for a game worthy to replace my flashpoint startup on the desktop.

No offence ( well actually full offence ) to arma but I prefer games where the challenge is more than stealing your clanmates kills.
Would be nice if either ai or other players would shoot back once a while instead of fighting with their controls, or in ai case ignore you completely when having 25% or more cover.

[4 IN 1]

Its 2 bad this movie was dissapointing.
Was looking forward for a game worthy to replace my flashpoint startup on the desktop.

No offence ( well actually full offence ) to arma but I prefer games where the challenge is more than stealing your clanmates kills.
Would be nice if either ai or other players would shoot back once a while instead of fighting with their controls, or in ai case ignore you completely when having 25% or more cover.
just ignore the kill numbers and start killing already

that should fix the problem

[Pauld]

looks disapointing from a buyers point of view i think CM have made a big NO NO in showing off in-game footage that is clearly not what CM have promised, the animation is horrible the little giggle of the gun nearly made me smack my self becouse i thought i was falling asleep, the enemy AI seemed well worse then arma AI in honestly... maybe they know all this flawes and wanted to get a "customers" point of view so they can replace and fix them but who knows at this moment in time..

but at the moment the opf2 v arma2 SwinGoMeteR is swinging in arma2 direction

yes i know its along way off there initial release date its sure looks like its very way off to being released in the first quarter of next year

maybe renaming operation flashCOD 5 is more appropriate  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/nener.gif

[MehMan]

well you know, both games still have six months ahead of them.

[4 IN 1]

well you know, both games still have six months ahead of them.
the problem is, if BIS saw their work and start thinking: hum~they are not going to make it, so just sit back and relax~~

then we are turely s***wed

[sparks50]

well you know, both games still have six months ahead of them.

Yes, but general choices in design can still hint at how much they really are following their promises.

[Blackhawk]

hmm...I'm not too excited about ArmA 2 from what i've seen. Operation Flashpoint 2 still looks much better from my perspective.

You think the animations in OFP 2 are bad? have you even looked at ArmA 2 yet, It's the SAME as ArmA, and the Animations were the worst thing in ArmA apart from the AI and clunkyness feeling.

[lecholas]

The enemy AI is either disabled (for presentation purposes) or totally dumb.

the enemy AI seemed well worse then arma AI in honestly...
Did we watch the same movie? How can you say anything about AI (I mean enemy AI beceause we could see some nicely and carefully advancing allies of player) after watching this movie? I could see two silhouettes for about one second. Do you think those silhouettes looked smart or retarded? I can't tell...   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif
We could see weapon handling and animations (not too good, I agree, but IMO it's not the most important thing in the game) and we could see short to medium distance terrain. Which in my opinion looked much better than in ArmA (and from what I've seen so far better than ArmA 2, which has beautiful terrains from a long distance - for pilots, and from a short distance, nice grass but rendered not too far from player - for... screenshots?, but not that good from medium distances - for grunts).

[Trunkz Jr]

Maybe if everyone complained on THEIR forums they might just fix things.

Thats for that acog pic, you should post that on their forums also so they can replace it asap XD

[MehMan]

hmm...I'm not too excited about ArmA 2 from what i've seen. Operation Flashpoint 2 still looks much better from my perspective.

You think the animations in OFP 2 are bad? have you even looked at ArmA 2 yet, It's the SAME as ArmA, and the Animations were the worst thing in ArmA apart from the AI and clunkyness feeling.
Well now, if you'd listened to the newest interview with Buchta you'd see that I asked a question regarding the ArmA animations in ArmA2 and if they are improved and refined, and the answer was yes. Snappier and faster. How snappier and faster will be seen when we get our hands on the game.


Quote[/b] ]we could see short to medium distance terrain. Which in my opinion looked much better than in ArmA

You must have eagle eyes to see how something looks like at 4 pixels. What you were watching was a downgraded 320x240 video, of which the game was on 250x180 tops. If you can see medium distance there and say it looks better than ArmA then you have really good eyes, but so far it remains out of judgement for me.

[Sennacherib]

customers-players will be their choice http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif personally i don't want an "ultimate combat simulation" but at first a funny game. A game should be always stay a game, not a serious thing.

Arma is so boring; if Arma2 is like Arma, i'm going to try OFP2.

btw, a good story makes a good game. OFP2 has a better story. Arma2: always the same boring story: usa vs a communist country. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif

personally i don't care about the acog optic, this is not the most important thing in this game.

[lecholas]

Quote[/b] ]we could see short to medium distance terrain. Which in my opinion looked much better than in ArmA

You must have eagle eyes to see how something looks like at 4 pixels. What you were watching was a downgraded 320x240 video, of which the game was on 250x180 tops. If you can see medium distance there and say it looks better than ArmA then you have really good eyes, but so far it remains out of judgement for me.
No, I don't have eagle eyes but I wear good glasses http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Of course, the movie is very bad quality and I can't be sure if I will be happy with what I will see in the final game. But if I compare very bad quality movies from ArmA 2 (yes, I saw the better quality ones but they only show that medium distances are still like in ArmA, and we don't have anything to compare them to on OFP2 side) with the very bad quality movie from OFP2 I see (threw my glasses, btw not BIS pink glasses http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif ) that for me OFP2 looks better.
We'll see better on better quality movies (or in final game).

[Deadfast]

I could see two silhouettes for about one second. Do you think those silhouettes looked smart or retarded? I can't tell...   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif
I saw 2 silhouettes that were standing there like idiots even though an APC and a group of infantry was moving towards them.

[Baff1]

customers-players will be their choice  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif  personally i don't want an "ultimate combat simulation" but at first a funny game. A game should be always stay a game, not a serious thing.

Arma is so boring; if Arma2 is like Arma, i'm going to try OFP2.

btw, a good story makes a good game. OFP2 has a better story. Arma2: always the same boring story: usa vs a communist country. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif

personally i don't care about the acog optic, this is not the most important thing in this game.
I'm certainly looking for a good fun game over the ultimate combat simulation, although I typically like the ultimate combat simulation aspects in my games.

I looking for OpF2 to be a good fun tac shooter co-op.
If it does that, it will be worth my money.

ArmA, didn't do that.

The battlefield sim, the sandbox toy soldier set was very much up to scratch just as OpF was, but the gameplay wasn't there.

I'd be very suprised in OpF2 can match up to ArmA on the combat simulation front, but I have every hope that it will be a fun game and a decent co-operative tac shooter.


I don't care about the ACOG optic either. I think the over reliance on gunporn is a red herring for game producers.
Ghost Recon had no first person gun models at all. It was all the better for it.
I just think that a sexy picture of a gun isn't as exciting as two lesbians.



I thought it amusing that you were bored of the BIS plot of the U.S. vs a Communist country and prefered the "different" OpF2 plot of the the U.S. vs a Communist country.

Myself I don't care which armies they choose, (unless they are offering my own national army as one of them, in which case I do), as long as they use an area of the world they know well.
I'm pleased to see BIS re-modelling Eastern European style enviroments.

[Baff1]

I could see two silhouettes for about one second. Do you think those silhouettes looked smart or retarded? I can't tell...   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif
I saw 2 silhouettes that were standing there like idiots even though an APC and a group of infantry was moving towards them.
In their presentation Codemasters talk a big fight about how great their AI is.
But I didn't see any evidence of it.

In BIS's presentation they talk a big fight about how great their AI is.
And they provided evidence of it.

Unfortunately, it still sucked.

No amount of the the press guy saying "and here it can be seen using cover" every two seconds can disguise the fact that while there was one guy lying down behind a twig, there were still the other 10 AI's lying down in the middle of the road as usual.
The one guy who was lying down near a 6 inch high piece of wood wasn't really inspiring my confidence all that much.
Although the guy sneaking around the low fence, (while the rest of his friends all lay/stood around in the middle of the road again) was clearly an example of improved code. It has been upgraded.

I'm intrested to see what Codies AI guy can come up with.
Whether he can match and hopefully even surpass BIS's efforts is a judgement I've yet to make.

With regards to the animations, I think the bigger budget Codemasters production is going to win out. I think they have more time/resources and their own bodymapping gear.

I expect BIS will once again make continued improvement on what they already have but not a complete overhaul or reworking.


I suspect that the original story tellers however no longer work there.


For me the critical flaws in ArmA were twofold.

No.1 The story telling blew chunks. The plot was lame, the missions uninspiring. Journalists doing the cutscene links same as in every other boring war story out there.

It didn't follow a war through the eyes of key actors. It wasn't an intresting war. It was pants.
Although the technically excellent missions did showcase the engines scriptability and new features very nicely, that's all they really did.
Demonstrate it's potential, rather than exploit it.

The second and far more important drawback was that it lagged on the infantry front. All the buildings, the trees and the bushes turned framerates to jelly, so that gun play was not fun.
The AI in urban area's couldn't path itself and when you tried to aim at them it went jerkovision until you were dead or they had walked off. Sniping fromt he hills doesn't require rapid changes in viewing angles. Walking around streets does. It is OK sniping in the wilderness but it is unplayable in the city.

The grass was another obvious drawback.
For a game in which all infantry combat traditionally takes place lying down in a field somewhere, not being able to see the enemy, (who can still see and kill you) simply makes it unplayable.

So the game doubly failed for infantry. It tried to make Urban enviroments richer and more exciting, but in doing so just made the laggy parts of the game far bigger, and it tried to make the wilderness parts of the game better and in doing so not only lagged them too but also made it impossible to lie down and fight there.

Reducing ArmA to a helicopter sim only. (And an excellent/best available one in my opinion).


So I hope OpF2 is a good game. Because ArmA wasn't. Despite improvements in the game engine, the gameplay was a big step backwards from it's predecessor.

[4 IN 1]

customers-players will be their choice  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif  personally i don't want an "ultimate combat simulation" but at first a funny game. A game should be always stay a game, not a serious thing.

Arma is so boring; if Arma2 is like Arma, i'm going to try OFP2.

btw, a good story makes a good game. OFP2 has a better story. Arma2: always the same boring story: usa vs a communist country. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif

personally i don't care about the acog optic, this is not the most important thing in this game.
well i think they jumped the shark in OFP2, kind of like what CM did in IGI2 back then or what Tom Clancy did in The Bear and the Dragon

[PrivateNoob]

well people want combat dont they? Personally I would like to see a realistic war/army simulator with realistic missions (digging latrines etc) but that wont happen for a while I think lol.
If the combat in OFPII is more fun then in ArmaII then....well, like I said, people want combat and nothing more.

[sparks50]

new footage(or at least I think) from the Coddie forums. Seems like there is a "take rifle off shoulder and run" animation after all..
Its just that the normal aim-walk is very fast. The video is a short bad quality cellphone, but it looks rather nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJiPwb2Nb5A

[Pulverizer]

human torso doesn't magically disappear when hit with a .50 round
It also doesn't magically keep perfectly intact and fly across the sky after being hit directly by a 120mm HEAT round or a 2,000-pound bomb.
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif Next time I'll just quip the phrase "ArmA II will kick the crap out of OFP 2" and save you the trouble of drawing conclusions which I in no way alluded to. This is the OFP2 thread after all. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif
My point was just that even a bit exaggerated destruction is better than the other extreme, not that ArmAss2 will be better or worse than OFP2. I'll try to be more obvious in the future.

[Pulverizer]

Why take uneducated guesses when there's pictures easily available. You don't have to walk up close to see that someone's missing half a head.
While the head is arguably not part of the body, therefore not part of the catastrophic destruction of the body, the point is moot.  You are just as dead if you have a 9mm slug fly through your brain as you are when a .50 calibre one does.

The special case of a .50 calibre or any high power round hitting someone in the head was already addressed in my response.  You have yet to supply any response to my 'uneducated guess' regarding .50 calibre hits on the body.
If it will take out half of the head, one might assume it will do similiar damage to other parts of the body.

[Max Power]

Why take uneducated guesses when there's pictures easily available. You don't have to walk up close to see that someone's missing half a head.
While the head is arguably not part of the body, therefore not part of the catastrophic destruction of the body, the point is moot.  You are just as dead if you have a 9mm slug fly through your brain as you are when a .50 calibre one does.

The special case of a .50 calibre or any high power round hitting someone in the head was already addressed in my response.  You have yet to supply any response to my 'uneducated guess' regarding .50 calibre hits on the body.
If it will take out half of the head, one might assume it will do similiar damage to other parts of the body.
No, I addressed this in a previous response.  The brain (and liver) are made if inelastic materials.  In the case of the brain, it is surrounded in a shell, which would try to contain expansion pressure caused by the temporary cavity.  The bullet shatters the container, and then, like a fuel air explosive in a building, it 'blows the roof off' with internal pressure, so to speak.  You can get a lot of head destruction like that with all kinds of different rounds that are much smaller than .50.  

The rest of the body is made of elastic material.  The temporary cavity caused by the bullet may be quite large, and cause a lot of soft tissue injury, but the body will return to a semblance of its original shape after the bullet has gone through.

The mythbusters have done a bunch of different myths involving damage from firearms and cannons on their show.  They were using dead pigs.  They've fired all kinds of things at these pigs including cannon balls, grape shot, chains, and other odds and ends.  Not even the cannon ball destroyed the torso.  It left a cannon ball shaped hole through 4 pigs.  The only thing that caused massive damage to the tune of dramatic deformation of the body was the chain.

edit:  I read from a first hand account from some tank crew that a burst of .50 bmg to the torso isn't even instantly fatal.  A man manning a .50 on the top of an abrams tank shot a burst into some rpg-man and he said that the man, "stared back at him in disbelief" before falling to a second burst.

[Pulverizer]

Did they use explosive rounds though?

[xnodunitx]

Generally speaking infantry don't use explosive rounds nor do many aircraft for that matter.

[Second]

Did they use explosive rounds though?
I'd like to nee this explosive round your speaking of. Where is TNT and where is fuze? How big is BANG it produces.

From reliable sources i've seen only these following bullet-types are mentioned: There's ball, and several different armor-piercing, tracer and Incendiary rounds, none of those is explosive (well incendiary could be very weak, but it's porpuse is to ignite something effectively).

I bet (i'm not sure) M2 ball pretty much plows straight thru tissue like 7.62 NATO or 7.62 warsaw. It doesnt' twist, throw circles or empty it's core into tissue after impact. It just causes deep and "clean" wound. I'm not sure would it even fall into it's side. Armor piercing rounds generally are even more stabile in tissue, they are ment to go thru as effectively as possible and not to fall on their side for ripping porpuses.

Then again one of my friends happened to shoot capercaillie from less than 10 meters with his 12 gauge shotgun... pellets went straight thru bird (from chest to back) and caused quite a bloody puff behind bird, from that he knew he doesn't need to shoot twice. Half of meat in bird was spoiled. i believe he mentioned that hole thru bird was as large as fist.

[Daniel]

That latest video clip still shows the gun weirdly. It should be swaying amount when he's "strafing", to encourage people to stop and scan. The player never seems to stand still.

[Pulverizer]

Did they use explosive rounds though?
I'd like to nee this explosive round your speaking of. Where is TNT and where is fuze? How big is BANG it produces.
My understading is that the TNT is inside the round as well as the detonator. I don't know how big the bang is but I bet it hurts like a motherf.....

Here's something from teh internets if you can't help yourself:
http://www.igman.co.ba/ammunition.htm#

[NoRailgunner]

People who "omg" and vote for more bloodshed should better play shooters with bullettime feature. Strange thing if you see them run-n-gun with M107/KSVK in close/urban combat http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[Balschoiw]

Quote[/b] ] I don't know how big the bang is but I bet it hurts like a motherf.....

It usually doesn´t go off on soft targets as it´s meant to be used for different purposes.

[4 IN 1]

People who "omg" and vote for more bloodshed should better play shooters with bullettime feature. Strange thing if you see them  run-n-gun with M107/KSVK in close/urban combat  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif
havent play CS dont you?

most of them likes to run-n-gun with AWM http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[Second]

My understading is that the TNT is inside the round as well as the detonator. I don't know how big the bang is but I bet it hurts like a motherf.....

Here's something from teh internets if you can't help yourself:
http://www.igman.co.ba/ammunition.htm#
Oh yes APEI! Sadly its' not clear how hard is it's effect. Will it ignite on human? flesh or bone or just on steel. What is bullet's construction etc. Mankind has played with explosive bullets over 100 years now. There are many kinds of ways to do it, for various different effects on target.

[Barely-injured]

I don't get it, I thought the whole point of the "target renders" and careful presentations was that CM did not want to show the public work in progress stuff that they did not deem almost final or something worth showing. Yet now they are showing what seems to be a pre-alpha with a first person view of an indie FPS.

If that is a complete breakdown of their marketing policy than that is bad, if that is really where things are headed than that is a disaster.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif

[Second]

I don't get it, I thought the whole point of the "target renders" and careful presentations was that CM did not want to show the public work in progress stuff that they did not deem almost final or something worth showing. Yet now they are showing what seems to be a pre-alpha with a first person view of an indie FPS.
I was happy to see even something. However just like you said, i got feeling of pre-alpha state when looking at video.

I wonder will OFP2 be ready even in one year. They sould delay it to get it finished. I bet OFP2 is in need of polishing after half year has passed than already beta-tested ArmA2. I just hope that CM doesn't screw this up. Game has alot of promises. It would be damn shame to lose it.

Anyways i think i go back to play some Thief-series... Talking about classics. How in earth developer like Looking Class ceases it's action. All it's games are pure classics. World ain't fair place .. and i'm slowly getting drunk (with reply to Pulverizer i was only tenderly drunk.. Now i'm loosing feeling from my fingers - I'll post in couple of hours. Lets see what that turns out to be).

[Pulverizer]

Quote[/b] ] I don't know how big the bang is but I bet it hurts like a motherf.....

It usually doesn´t go off on soft targets as it´s meant to be used for different purposes.
Yes but body armor plates, other equipment or his transport.

[Pulverizer]

People who "omg" and vote for more bloodshed should better play shooters with bullettime feature. Strange thing if you see them  run-n-gun with M107/KSVK in close/urban combat  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif
People why cry at the sight of realistic blood and gore should go play Tetris.

[Baff1]

I don't mind, but I don't like having to turn off my video game every time a child (or grannie) walks into the room because some knobber dev thought swearing in a game was cool or there is brains splattering everywhere.

I play adult rated games, but I'm an adult, so there are children around the house.
I don't want to have to wait around all day until they go to bed before I can play.

Swearing annoys me more than the gore. But that's just my personal taste.

[sparks50]

Well most games with gore has a option to turn it off in the settings, so if its not your thing, you wont have to see it.

[NoRailgunner]

For sure, I dont like those overdone gore effects with huge blood splashes. But hey kids think thats "realism", like CQB with sniper rifles or shoot with explosive rounds at soft targets... should we hope they have to join the service or better not?

[Pulverizer]

Overdone fx are okay in a game that does them for the comedic effect, like Unreal Tournament or Doom. In a semi-realistic shooter like ArmA, Rainbow Six or whatever, the regular amount will do just fine thanx u.

And who gives a fuck if some dude wants to use a huge-ass sniper rifle in close quarters in a video game. Let him, just like he lets you play the game as uber-realistic total combat simulation experience™ http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

[xnodunitx]

For sure, I dont like those overdone gore effects with huge blood splashes. But hey kids think thats "realism", like CQB with sniper rifles or shoot with explosive rounds at soft targets... should we hope they have to join the service or better not?
They could be AH-64 pilots, no matter what weapon is used its always explosive.


I don't much care for overdone gore meself, F.E.A.R being a perfect example, though I would like to see war games have an option to enhance with a bit more realism, maybe also an option to filter the swearing as well.

I'm just tired of seeing games depicting the "better" sides of war that kids think is cool, though I must admit I absolutely love when parents get upset over the swearing..you buy a game for your child that depicts killing people and you are worried about swearing..
Not pointing a finger at you Baff1, just the general population of parents.

Thing is..if GTA can have hookers and be bought by parents for their kids, why can't war games have some form of blood, no more dustheads! I'm not saying that when I shoot a person with a sniper rifle in the head I want to see it explode, just a blood splat would be nice.

[Max Power]

Did they use explosive rounds though?
Massive tissue destruction from explosive rounds is another matter entirely. I don't think they use payload carrying rounds under 20mm though. I'm sure there are smaller payload carrying rounds that have been invented but I don't think that their usage is common or even necessarily effective.

[Pulverizer]

Did they use explosive rounds though?
Massive tissue destruction from explosive rounds is another matter entirely.  I don't think they use payload carrying rounds under 20mm though.  I'm sure there are smaller payload carrying rounds that have been invented but I don't think that their usage is common or even necessarily effective.
If they aren't used it's probably because there isn't a conflict that would call for them. It's not like stopping a donkey or a beat-up Toyota requires such firepower.

[Baff1]

I don't much care for overdone gore meself, F.E.A.R being a perfect example, though I would like to see war games have an option to enhance with a bit more realism, maybe also an option to filter the swearing as well.

I'm just tired of seeing games depicting the "better" sides of war that kids think is cool, though I must admit I absolutely love when parents get upset over the swearing..you buy a game for your child that depicts killing people and you are worried about swearing..  
Not pointing a finger at you Baff1, just the general population of parents.

Thing is..if GTA can have hookers and be bought by parents for their kids, why can't war games have some form of blood, no more dustheads!  I'm not saying that when I shoot a person with a sniper rifle in the head I want to see it explode, just a blood splat would be nice.
Overdone gore has it's moments.

Soldier of Fortune was great fun.



I don't mind if people want to buy their children GTA. It's all personal choice .

What I don't want is my neice to walk in during a crac hooker scene and ask me to explain what they are doing. (Let alone Zoo sex off Google).

Similarly when she starts mimicing the words she hears so she can be part of the joke, it isn't cool. Her mother is going to make my life hell.

There are games that are generally too horrific that I have to turn off when the kids are around. Usually I am enjoying them and resent having to. FEAR might have been the one of those titles that I was thinking of.

[sparks50]

I think gore can be a good thing in a game of war, but with a realistic basis. Not like SOF.

Red Orchestra is a good example of how things can be done. People can loose limbs in grenade explosions etc. It makes it gritty and it doesn't sugarcoat or glamorize war like in battlefield.

But to get something as good as that, we need ragdolls.

[PrivateNoob]

Anyways i think i go back to play some Thief-series... Talking about classics. How in earth developer like Looking Class ceases it's action. All it's games are pure classics. World ain't fair place ..


Best games ever.

[Dwarden]

I think gore can be a good thing in a game of war, but with a realistic basis. Not like SOF.

Red Orchestra is a good example of how things can be done. People can loose limbs in grenade explosions etc.  It makes it gritty and it doesn't sugarcoat or glamorize war like in battlefield.

But to get something as good as that, we need ragdolls.
if my memory serves me right even the ROO ragdolls aren't MP synchronized so after the 'death' event it's all clientside and differs from what others see

i know that it's possible to do procedural deaths which could be MP synced but i don't remember seeing single title introducing that yet ...

actually on ROO i find more important the feel of teamwork and usability of weapon 'resting' on any edge capable do so (window edge, barrel, wall, rock, tree etc. in both vertical and horizontal sense) which gives the needed 'feeling' of being inside enviroment and utilize it to own advantage (stabler weapon IS) ...

[sparks50]

Well how does MP synching help gameplay?
Other than the occasional "look at the funny position of this ragdoll" etc http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

[Max Power]

Well how does MP synching help gameplay?
Other than the occasional "look at the funny position of this ragdoll" etc http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif
In ArmA you can use dead bodies as cover if I am not mistaken.

[sparks50]

You are correct. A pretty decent tactic when things go bad actually http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

[xnodunitx]

Good times good times...

[Balschoiw]

Quote[/b] ]Anyways i think i go back to play some Thief-series...
+1
I borrowed the last Thief game to a friend for a year now. Time to get it back.

[Journeyman]

Quote[/b] ]Anyways i think i go back to play some Thief-series...
+1
I borrowed the last Thief game to a friend for a year now. Time to get it back.
Does anyone know if Thief Deadly Shadows will play on Vista?

[gsleighter]

http://www.vistareadygames.com/showthread.php?p=549367

Yes, apparently with no problems.

[Second]

Does anyone know if Thief Deadly Shadows will play on Vista?
My 64-bit Business runs it without a problem... Well few crashes there was, dunno know why.

[Average Joe]

Does anyone know if Thief Deadly Shadows will play on Vista?
My 64-bit Business runs it without a problem... Well few crashes there was, dunno know why.
Being that I actually do the tech support for the game hah yeah its Vista compatible but if your running duel core or above you have to apply a fix, if you want to know it. Lemme know,

[Journeyman]

Does anyone know if Thief Deadly Shadows will play on Vista?
My 64-bit Business runs it without a problem... Well few crashes there was, dunno know why.
Being that I actually do the tech support for the game hah yeah its Vista compatible but if your running duel core or above you have to apply a fix, if you want to know it. Lemme know,
OK thanks, I just sent you a PM for it!

Better get back on topic I guess!  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Pulverizer]

Talking about stealth games... I wonder if you can safely creep behind AI's backs in OFP2, or will they pay better attention to their surroundings. Or how quickly they will completely forget about a threat when they lose sight of it.

Will they hear gunshots and explosions from afar and react, or just keep on walking down the road casually while friendlies are getting slaughtered a few blocks away.

Gaaah... I wish I could forget all about it until it's actually out http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/goodnight.gif

[ebns72]

Wow. That video was horrible. I had such high hopes for OFP2. It seems as if the "attitude" of the game is reflected in the movement style. It's very fast and the player is constantly moving like any other shooter. Looks like any other run-and gun, except this time with an expansive terrain and far-away enemies. Oh well. I was hoping for a big-budget sim. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/goodnight.gif

[Dwarden]

Well how does MP synching help gameplay?
Other than the occasional "look at the funny position of this ragdoll" etc http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif
w/o MP syncing the physics is just another 'fancy' effect w/o use ...

if physics then physics which really affects the gameplay (players/AI)

for example if you detonate the bomb in water the shockwave is equal on all machines and everyone sees the 'equal' output +- some visual differences but what i mean

if the wave reach me, the other players sees the wave reach me and the AI sees the same

if i hit someone with weak calliber into west which 'knocks' him but don't kill everyone sees his 'IK' body to react same way with MP sync

if someone slides on the stairs and does some funky landing it must looks same for everyone watching

if house is colapsing it must be same etc etc....

no proper sync and you end with situations where evereyone sees something different ...

same goes for AI
.g. kill some guy and he falls off the 'edge' of wall into place where noone should see it (For you)...
but seconds later the ALARM goes on and AI storm the area with screaming 'man down' and 'enemy there' ... it turned out for AI the corpse fall went opposite directly on head of camping guards ...

so this type of sync is must go for physics and other 'important' effects

[Stryder]

Surprised this hasn't been posted yet. New 10 page article scanned by a fan.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_polaris/

(the Playstation UK one is the new one)

If they have really gone to the extremes that the magazine claims it's going to be pretty damn amazing.

Especially comforting is the last part of the article (the interview) where a dev addresses the concerns over the multiplayer numbers.

[Trunkz Jr]

Would be nice if I could actually see the scans up close, maybe thats why nobody posted it XD

[Stryder]

Click on all sizes http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif (upper left corner)

[Trunkz Jr]

I found this one instead

http://www.scribd.com/doc....Preview (http://www.scribd.com/doc/6827872/Official-Playstation-Magazine-UK-10-Page-Preview)


It's actually pretty good , we know a few pages already of info, but some is nice how they've talked about it.

I really like how you actually BLEED

""One Example of how we've done our best to hold to this is that soldiers can be struck by a bullet or shrapnel in a non-fatal way. When this happens, one of the [many] systems that gets triggered off actually has the soldier bleed where hit. The hit-specific blood will then seep into their clothes and out from behind armor if applicable. It's an effect that adds to the quality of the game without being "over the top". Trust us when we say that you can see [and hear] when a soldier is wounded and in need of a medic."

[Average Joe]

For 10 pages, there must have been about 5 things I read which were new news, oh wells...the wait continues.

[Baphomet]

Am I to understand that this is a playstation 3 title?

That's a joke right? Especially when they assumed that in some way that call of duty, much less it's devotees are some way in a league with the sort of gameplay a "realistic" game has to offer.

Doesn't the modern day call of duty game still use an expanding ring system? How sad and delusional is that?

I'm glad I'm not nearly as interested in computer games anymore. Just thinking about stuff like this back when I really cared just made me feel resentful and a little pissed off.

How can you even hope to expect a realistic experience when you're playing with substandard, clunky peripherals?

It'd be great to see some genuine competition for BIS. The sort of competition that would force the company to evolve instead of resting on it's laurels from a design standpoint. (no offence BIS, I still think very highly of you)

They've got the realism genre locked in a death grip to this day.

Yet, to the unsophisticated or shallow gamer, bleeding effects and all other manner of inconsequential esthetics constitute the main criteria for defining realism. Unless those special wounding effects somehow have a remarkable effect on how that individual performs after being injured, it's little more than fluff. Window dressing. Nothing more.

They completely ignore aspects like physics, ballistics and weapon handling accuracy. You know, the meat and effing potatoes of a game.

This is the reason why BIS has such a monopoly, because the majority of the industry is catering to morons.

[Journeyman]

This is the reason why BIS has such a monopoly, because the majority of the industry is catering to morons.
This is very true! Unfortunately morons are where the money is, and money is what these companies need to survive in an ever-competitive marketplace.

Consequently 'niche' games will always be struggling low budget titles.

Then again some of the best movies I have ever watched have been 'low budget' movies. Whereas some of the shittiest bullshit has come from Hollywood!

[Pulverizer]

[prejudiced CM dissing]
You obviously haven't even read a single complete magazine article of OFP2 so don't write it off just yet. It could easily be a more realistic game than ArmA 2 if they deliver all that they've promised thus far.

And ArmA2 will also come to a next gen console, most likely the X360.

[DMarkwick]

Consequently 'niche' games will always be struggling low budget titles.
BIS have discovered that a fat slice of a small pie can be as good as a thin slice of a large pie http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Lowest common denominator usually spells the death of large games publishers, as they struggle to put out 100 identical games a year, whereas niche specialisation will always spell the rise of independent developers, if they get the balance right.

[Grimnirsson]

Quote[/b] ]And ArmA2 will also come to a next gen console, most likely the X360.

Afaik that's not 'likely' but a fact.

Grim

[Stryder]

They completely ignore aspects like physics, ballistics and weapon handling accuracy. You know, the meat and effing potatoes of a game.
Did you even read the article???

They stated (and have before) that they put tremendous resources into having ridiculously accurate modeling of ballistics, weapon damage, etc.

Obviously it's coming out on the PC too.

Arma 2 is also coming out on consoles as well you know :P.

[Baphomet]

They completely ignore aspects like physics, ballistics and weapon handling accuracy. You know, the meat and effing potatoes of a game.
Did you even read the article???

They stated (and have before) that they put tremendous resources into having ridiculously accurate modeling of ballistics, weapon damage, etc.

Obviously it's coming out on the PC too.

Arma 2 is also coming out on consoles as well you know :P.
Heard it all before. Same story, different game.

Same dung, different pile, so to speak...

We'll see. We'll just have to see. I haven't written it off. I am however, very cynical at this point.

And yes, I read the scans of that magazine posted earlier in the thread.

Furthermore. I wasn't exclusively lambasting codemasters. Ohno, I was waxing critical of the industry in general.

Additionally I concur, the lowest common denominator is where the greatest profits lie. However, as we've seen with BIS, they've carved themselves a wonderful sorely-needed niche. I applaud them for that, as it's made OFP one of my favorite games of all time.

However, that doesn't stop me from being prejudicial to and resentful of the slobbering masses for sucking all the potential out of good games by virtue of being unsophisticated.

I'm entitled to my feelings/opinions. Even if they're heavy handed.


... and I still think playing a realistic shooter with a gamepad is completely ridiculous.

[Second]

Stryder: I think he spoke more general about fps-genre (i could be wrong thou)... Yet still he talks BS. Everything is improving. And like i've been saying all along, ArmA will have to compete much more than OFP did (same goes for OFP2). Your mainstream fps-standarts have risen alot, i'd say it's most advacing and improving genre of games. Has been for years.

What makes ArmA somewhat unigue is huge enviroment, and in general fps-standarts you could say that it's also ArmA's (OFP2's as well) main weak point. demanding too much resources which could be directed else where, or make objects in world work more complex ways: AI handling enviroment is sub-par in ArmA.

We'll see what are overall standarts of fps-games and what ArmA2 and OFP2 reaches at their time of release (and reviewers will tell it to us, with their trained eye). Yes, i've seen one video of ArmA2 in which AI seems to reach some year 2003 standarts (They do finally LEAN!!! OMG!!1!!omgomg!!!11!!1!!11!1)... Don 't color me impressed just yet.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif Lets see do they also finally understand that building offers more cover than bush  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Ps. This turned more into ArmA/ArmA2, but it's really ment for both. OFP2 in my sight will at it's best have same basic weknesses than ArmA2 has.

PPs. What i really like in ArmA and also OFP2 (as it seems) is ability to use mission editor (which in ArmA's case is easy to use). There's games which offers bad/bugged/MP-only mission editors (and alot of those which doesn't present anything). I dont' know if any reaches same easiness of use then ArmA has. I created my first enjoyable simple 20 minutes of pure combat mission in about 8 hours, i havent' faces as easy mission editor in even computer wargames. Right now this is pretty much ONLY feature i'd like to take from ArmA to my "dream game".

EDIT: Oh and Baphoment seemed to post before me.

[Baphomet]

Quote[/b] ]ArmA will have to compete much more than OFP did (same goes for OFP2). Your mainstream fps-standarts have risen alot

What basis for comparison are you using?

Graphically? That's meaningless, that's par for the course of any game that will conceivably come out in the future. That shouldn't even be a consideration.

The call of duty series certainly hasn't displayed any remarkable advances from a design standpoint, for example. I mean honestly the arc of design advancements seen in these games over the years has been slow and predictable.

Please cite some examples of games and their related design improvements. Don't call BS on what I'm saying unless you're willing to back your claims up.

I'm going to assume unless provided with some more information on your side that I simply expect more than you do from a game, which is why you see these advances as quantum leaps in gaming design, and I see them as unremarkable and predictable.


EDIT: Yes, I won the post-race. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/nener.gif

[lwlooz]

Hear Hear, what that man said.

I am glad that there are other people that think the same.
I also fail to see how any fps game has evolved past Half-Life for SP or Quake/CS/BF1942 for MP in game design and that is quite sad.
What astonishes me more tho is the influx of FPS players over the years into this community who constantly demand from BIS to remove all the features/oddities that made the OFP game series what it is , a rather abstract large landscape large battle combined arms sandbox-game.
That is right,I will repeat: OFP never was an urban combat,Delta-L33tzor CTF high-detailed shoebox small-scale weapon-fetishist game. And that was good.

Unfortunately FPS players are graphic whores and only like CS-gameplay, so both ArmA and the OFP series under the pressure of the masses will gradually become just another bland fps like the million others there already are.

But then again , I secretly hope that OFP2 will be the "ALL ACTION!" FPS Tactical Shooter everyone will love with plenty of gore and all the other useless gimmicks everyone craves
and with all them Urban Combat!!/Action-gamers gone ArmA2/3 can go back to being a niche sandbox large open landscape gameplay-focused game after BIS finished to do their silly arcade Sci-Fi game.

[Max Power]

Further to the argument that it shouldn't matter from a graphics standpoint, ofp was very ugly in its hay-day. However, lack lustre graphics will certainly turn some people off... fortunately, as a rule, I haven't seen that from BIS's press shots. The game looks very impressive. Some parts, of course, need polish.. like some of the soldier's faces look very dead and some of the transitions from grass field to full forest are a little abrupt. The renderer, though, oh man, it looks spectacular.

[Second]

Quote[/b] ]ArmA will have to compete much more than OFP did (same goes for OFP2). Your mainstream fps-standarts have risen alot

What basis for comparison are you using?
Standarts of OFP era. Look what OFP was and compare it to ArmA. Then take early MOH and compare it to later two MOHs. This is raw sample and should not be taken too seriously, but OFP is far superiour to early MOH, however when comparing ArmA to later MOH i would think that everyone sees the difference... Or then there is difference in point of views (which i think there is).

Specification of my point of view:

And more specifically AI (as combatant) and overall realism, which includes weapons, combat, immersion in realism sense etc. Gameplay also in some degrees, altough gameplay has been pretty good since days of doom/quake. This things i speak now on as a gaming mechanics.

However:

In what they have not advanced is the corridors, this sadly remains as chosen standart of business, it's easier to deliver imervise story and events when player can't break them. But it's more plot related really than gaming mechanics (the thing i'm talking about), i'm quite sure that COD4 for example could have been made more dynamic and stuff but dev-team desided otherwise.

Yeah. Half-life has good plot and was classic (was better than part 2). But it doesn't set the overall level of industry, i9t just sets pole higher for great games. And besides success of Half-life (it reached status of classic) is more about classical things like plot and place of happening, and not things in gaming mechanics (altough they were advanced at that time, for realism shooter anyways). Plot is something which is thousands of years old, you can't expect great leaps in there. Sometimes someone just hits the homerun. You could also complain that plots haven't improved in movies, books, poems etc in any given decade, century etc.

Battlefield, Vietcong and such have set already pole higher from OFP days in gaming mechnics sense, and it just keeps on rising. COD4 for example didn't get great scores in press for nothing, altought it's trendish to bash it. Again gaming mechanics is set and sound, altough it happens in heavily scripted corridor. Granted i felt letdown by it's plot, that is main reason why i didn't buy it (10 € for campaign's hour is bit too much for me).

what we have left... Ghost recon is one, some say it has descended when GRAW came out. I don't know. What changed in GRAW again was more plot related. It became more about corridor and less abotu creative thinking. This again is not gaming mechanic related. GRAW delivered much greater/complete/immersive gaming mechanics.

I believe you mostly are thinking about corridor (plot related things) and i'm more about gaming mechanics. I just happen to like more about combat in games and usually when reaching for realistic combat action we are limited in certain kind of corridor... Altough usually games tends to make it too narrow.

[Second]

But then again , I secretly hope that OFP2 will be the "ALL ACTION!" FPS Tactical Shooter everyone will love with plenty of gore and all the other useless gimmicks everyone craves
and with all them Urban Combat!!/Action-gamers gone ArmA2/3 can go back to being a niche sandbox large open landscape gameplay-focused game after BIS finished to do their silly arcade Sci-Fi game.
I dont' know what you've been inhaling but it gotta be strong stuff.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

I personally think that Crysis has best sand-box currently. It's both detailed and serves quite wide landscape.

[Pulverizer]

Crysis is not a sandbox game. Not anything in the vein of OFP/ArmA anyway.

First of all, there is no island. The levels are different maps much like Call Of Duty or Wolf 3D. The scenery that you see afar isn't actually real landmass, only a very low-res backdrop. There's also invisible walls to keep the player on track.

Secondly, the AI is in sleep mode until the player comes close enough. Sandbox should have a world that can function without the player, not just react to his presence and actions. This is no different from Call Of Duty spawning enemies behind the next corner, except that there's a finite number of them.

So build a real island the size of Sahrani with 100 active AI and your PC would probably melt before you could utter "maximum gay" at the sub-zero framerate. Oh, and don't forget to try that on MP too.

[Journeyman]

"maximum gay"
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I think Crysis was just another missed opportunity for a realism or at least semi realism FPS, spoiled so blatantly by yet another instalment of totally over the top alien creatures with outrageous abilities and ridiculous weapons. I enjoyed it immensely right up to the cave missions where it just disintegrated into 'Maximum Crap'!!  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[Second]

Crysis is not a sandbox game. Not anything in the vein of OFP/ArmA anyway.
True it's not sand box in the wideness ArmA/OFP has. Crysis is focused in combat and sneaking in it's own unique (nanosuit) set while modelling it pretty completely. ArmA presents all in bigger sense, but doesn't go to such deep details. Also we can discuss is neither of them a true 'sandbox game' (if comparing to something like GTA or Oblivion).

Crysis offers far more detailed terrain. Natrually because of this it can't hadle same kind generic xxx square kilometer landscape as in ArmA can be seen. But then again like in several other games, you find the wholeness in microlevel.

You talking about AI activating just near player is just plot related design NOT game mechanic related (see my earlier posts). Same infact happens pretty alot in OFP aswell http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif Because scripted mission and plot is much more story-like and immersive (epic) than dynamic missions.

Limiting players move is also plot related. In Arma/OFP we had this as radio message in several mission. If player ignored then it was game over. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

I dont' know which would be reasonable map size in Crysis. It's combined arms mission offered quite alto of area. I don't know how much but enough to cover usuall ArmA/OFP mission (if not long marches related, or very big mission).

EDIT: I agree with Red Kite quite complitely. I didn't mean that Crysis is great game, but it's engine sure turns me on. Hugging ground as trees and bushes are falling from smallarms fire, grenades and sh*t. All-out assaults in jungle. Defence and delay. Recon and sneak. All scifi taken out... Sadly all this spoiled and missed after good promising start.

[Baphomet]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.

However, I must also stipulate that OFP2 will be an unmitigated failure in my eyes if it at all caters to the sort of gaming rabble that expects:

-An expanding ring ballistics system (this is one of a few symptoms to a condition I refer to as "lazy developer syndrome").

-No wounding simulation model of any kind. And I'm not referring to seeing blood spurting. I mean quite literally lacking the ability to F' someone up with small arms whilst they still retain the ability to fight back, albeit in various states of incapacitation if hit in nonlethal or areas of delayed lethality.

-An unreasonable table of weapon damage and performance values, based on accuracy, recoil simulation, etc. These are directly linked to the aforementioned wounding simulation model.

-Inaccurately modeled human capabilities. Running, walking, stamina, etc.

These are a few target criteria that -must- be addressed.

[Pulverizer]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.
I'm sure most of the gamers here hope that OFP2 will kick ass, seeing how there's over 1.5k replies in this thread http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/welcome.gif

Naturally that number also has a lot of contributions from BI fans who think Poseidon is made of some obscure Czech magic that cannot be matched by a Big Evil Corporation like CM. They would hope nothing more than to see the complete failure of OFP2. It's sad really http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Lepardi]

-Inaccurately modeled human capabilities. Running, walking, stamina, etc.
This will pretty surely not be addressed in OFP2. Gameplay videos show the character movement is degraded to the usual arcade shooter style, like CoD 4.

[Grimnirsson]

I'd say what we know from the so called gameplay videos is only some short impressions from a rather early design state. Let's see what CM is able to deliver with their final game, I'm pretty sure they won't torpedo their total-realism approach with bad character movement or one that is too limited to act in a believable way in the otherwise (hopefully) realistic environment.

Grim

[Baphomet]

-Inaccurately modeled human capabilities. Running, walking, stamina, etc.
This will pretty surely not be addressed in OFP2. Gameplay videos show the character movement is degraded to the usual arcade shooter style, like CoD 4.
I suspect what you're saying is correct, and to be honest, for them to promote the game for being realistic, it's little more than an insult.


I do -NOT- want in my tactical shooter:

-Circle strafing

-The ability to run like Usain Bolt, much less all the time.

-The ability to sustain damage to any extremity without it severely hampering my ability to perform in game tasks: I like having the ability to take someone's legs or arms out. It forces you to think before doing something stupid. As an unforgiving damage model does anyhow.

[Blackhawk]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.
I'm sure most of the gamers here hope that OFP2 will kick ass, seeing how there's over 1.5k replies in this thread http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/welcome.gif

Naturally that number also has a lot of contributions from BI fans who think Poseidon is made of some obscure Czech magic that cannot be matched by a Big Evil Corporation like CM. They would hope nothing more than to see the complete failure of OFP2. It's sad really http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
You are very right mate.

It is extremely sad considering that the people on the CM forums respect BI's talent for making these games. And all the people here can only show hate.
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif

[badlymad]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.
I'm sure most of the gamers here hope that OFP2 will kick ass, seeing how there's over 1.5k replies in this thread http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/welcome.gif

Naturally that number also has a lot of contributions from BI fans who think Poseidon is made of some obscure Czech magic that cannot be matched by a Big Evil Corporation like CM. They would hope nothing more than to see the complete failure of OFP2. It's sad really http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
You are very right mate.

It is extremely sad considering that the people on the CM forums respect BI's talent for making these games. And all the people here can only show hate.
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif
The difference between there and here is that there are no ARMA 2 fan boys with persecution complexes lurking about the Codemasters forums that feel slighted at the least bit of criticism of their game, no matter how valid it may be. The implication that BIS fans are not "gamers" is also pretty disingenuous, considering how many people said that they would buy both OFP2 and ArmA 2 if either was shown to be good.

[froggyluv]

All I can say is I do sincerely hope that OFP2 will give BIS some decent competition. Honestly, a little competition can only help stimulate creativity and motivate at this point.
I'm sure most of the gamers here hope that OFP2 will kick ass, seeing how there's over 1.5k replies in this thread http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/welcome.gif

Naturally that number also has a lot of contributions from BI fans who think Poseidon is made of some obscure Czech magic that cannot be matched by a Big Evil Corporation like CM. They would hope nothing more than to see the complete failure of OFP2. It's sad really http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
You are very right mate.

It is extremely sad considering that the people on the CM forums respect BI's talent for making these games. And all the people here can only show hate.
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif
Man you really need to stop.

Plenty of people here said  they will buy both games myself included. The same people have also expressed concern for both games in areas they see concern. Why do you feel the need to incessantly defend every criticism or concern laid Codemasters way?

@<hidden> said mate

[Max Power]

@<hidden> said mate
+10

[Pulverizer]

The implication that BIS fans are not "gamers" is also pretty disingenuous, considering how many people said that they would buy both OFP2 and ArmA 2 if either was shown to be good.
-1... I never meant it like that http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

Let&#39;s all try to troll around less and talk more about how we all want OFP2 to be a great game then http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/inlove.gif

[Journeyman]

Let&#39;s all try to troll around less and talk more about how we all want OFP2 to be a great game then http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/inlove.gif
Indeed every time I visit here all I see is bashing and counter bashing&#33; I haven&#39;t heard anything new in many weeks, is there any more progress news of this game yet?

[Call911-AGE-]

Ego Tech Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee143EiB2gM

[ebns72]

Ego Tech Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee143EiB2gM
I was originally optimistic about ofp2, casting down all the BIS fanboys who would pick the game apart before any real gameplay had been released.

However, this trailer disappoints me heavily and shows that CM is clearly not entirely interested in realism here as their priority.

We have:

-unrealistic character movement. You are gliding, there is no real sense of character mass/the fact you are a human being evident in the original flashpoint

-no freeaim. &#39;nuff said.

-A.I. style: It could be just for the video, but the A.I. looked stupid. It was bunched up, crouching/kneeling in the open. It lacked the down-in-the-dirt realism of the original flashpoint. Similarly, the player ran up to any enemy at point blank in blasted him. The original flashpoint consisted of me with my face in the dirt shooting at a distant silhouette and trying to survive. That&#39;s how I had hoped the second would be. This appears to be run and gun, except with two squads running and gunning each other simultaneously.

Hopefully it will still turn out to be a great game. I know, however, that it will annoy the hell out of me if I don&#39;t feel "immersed" inside the soldier I&#39;m playing. Flashpoint did an excellent job with that in just the style of camera, the style of character movement, the style of aiming, etc. All this is absent from ofp2.

[Max Power]

I love how you can see in the very first scene some guy out there on the left shooting upwards and the bullets coming out of his rifle sideways and flying towards the badguys on the hill. And you thought the ai in ArmA did some amazing shooting tricks&#33;

[Second]

I love how you can see in the very first scene some guy out there on the left shooting upwards and the bullets coming out of his rifle sideways and flying towards the badguys on the hill.  And you thought the ai in ArmA did some amazing shooting tricks&#33;
I see this basically as good trick. AI&#39;s ability to respond to limits in terrain and things is bit more flexible as it ain&#39;t tied to barrels direction (which is basically one flaw i see in ArmA/OFP AI, it limits AI&#39;s capabilities bit too much). Interesting to see will OFP:DR keep it the way it is now in that tech video or will they change things. Right now it seemed pretty odd if they have to rely on that trick in open terrain&#33; In MOUT or at close distances it might be good to minimize problems in animations and such but in open terrain at long distances... Hmm http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif

Then again that is old trick which idea is to expose just rifle and bit of hand while shooting at something behind corner from short distances(we had this is trench clearing exercises and i&#39;ve used it in airsoft with good results). If AI is capable to do that but will not gain too great accuracy then i&#39;m saticfied. I think MOH introduced it to shooters, it&#39;s AI was pretty challenging in that way. Even when it was designed to be killed easily.

Mission editor seemed to be nice, if that is what user gets. Ofcourse it can be too complex so that most won&#39;t even bother to try it.

Overall that saticfied me. AI showed bit of it&#39;s tricks and then again animations indeed sucked (=gliding over terrain)

[CameronMcDonald]

I love how you can see in the very first scene some guy out there on the left shooting upwards and the bullets coming out of his rifle sideways and flying towards the badguys on the hill.  And you thought the ai in ArmA did some amazing shooting tricks&#33;
I see this basically as good trick. AI&#39;s ability to respond to limits in  terrain and things is bit more flexible as it ain&#39;t tied to barrels direction (which is basically one flaw i see in ArmA/OFP AI, it limits AI&#39;s capabilities bit too much). Interesting to see will OFP:DR keep it the way it is now in that tech video or will they change things. Right now it seemed pretty odd if they have to rely on that trick in open terrain&#33; In MOUT or at close distances it might be good to minimize problems in animations and such but in open terrain at long distances... Hmm  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif
....nnno. I believe plaintiff1 is actually pointing out that the loon in question&#39;s rifle is actually firing bullets in a direction that fail to correlate with the direction he&#39;s actually aiming, i.e. the bullets have a life of their own, per sé.

Exhibit A:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/CameronMcDonald/Lulz-1.jpg

Note where the rifle is actually pointing, against the little puff o&#39; dust on the hilltop. Angle fail.

Addendum - and for those who will inevitably say "lulz cmcD uve g0ne 0ffz da deap nd, he woznt chuting&#33;1zorz", it doesn&#39;t look like any of that group on the left were aiming towards said hilltop.

[Second]

-A.I. style: It could be just for the video, but the A.I. looked stupid. It was bunched up, crouching/kneeling in the open. It lacked the down-in-the-dirt realism of the original flashpoint. Similarly, the player ran up to any enemy at point blank in blasted him. The original flashpoint consisted of me with my face in the dirt shooting at a distant silhouette and trying to survive. That&#39;s how I had hoped the second would be. This appears to be run and gun, except with two squads running and gunning each other simultaneously.
I agree is clustering, could be for show (like many movies makes things) or could be flaw in game.

In ArmA you had many times go to crunch to see what you fire. That is pretty realistic if thinking about some meadow with even half long grass. If you go low you don&#39;t see anything. Best thing is to find some rotten stump or rock and use that as support from prone position, if that ain&#39;t possible then next best thing is to rise to crunch position to be able to aim and shoot.

Hard to say more as those were just brief moments from game, in bushes there was point blank instance but that is just natural. they seemed to fire more than move in firefights (one or two guys moving while rest kept firing), but that could be just for show. If they manage to do such suppression technique in game on regular basis it seems to be promising. Not just sniper contents, but more real battlefield. Where powder burns and from hour just lasi minute is killing fire, so to speak.

[Second]

I love how you can see in the very first scene some guy out there on the left shooting upwards and the bullets coming out of his rifle sideways and flying towards the badguys on the hill.  And you thought the ai in ArmA did some amazing shooting tricks&#33;
I see this basically as good trick. AI&#39;s ability to respond to limits in  terrain and things is bit more flexible as it ain&#39;t tied to barrels direction (which is basically one flaw i see in ArmA/OFP AI, it limits AI&#39;s capabilities bit too much). Interesting to see will OFP:DR keep it the way it is now in that tech video or will they change things. Right now it seemed pretty odd if they have to rely on that trick in open terrain&#33; In MOUT or at close distances it might be good to minimize problems in animations and such but in open terrain at long distances... Hmm  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif
....nnno. I believe plaintiff1 is actually pointing out that the loon in question&#39;s rifle is actually firing bullets in a direction that fail to correlate with the direction he&#39;s actually aiming, i.e. the bullets have a life of their own, per sé.




Note where the rifle is actually pointing, against the little puff o&#39; dust on the hilltop. Angle fail.
Yes yes. That is what i said. On open ground it seems to be bit odd.

However for years (probably is still used, in MOH: Airborne i saw it last) that trick has been used to make AI more challenging in close combat because animations and AI-resources are still pretty limited. Sure it has weaknesses like those unfair kills, where there is just gun visible (while something vital as head is hidden behind buildings corner) and it headshots player. I&#39;ve been pretty pissed for Farcry and MOH (while series if i recall correctly) for it. So it&#39;s ain&#39;t flawless.

In Arma or OFP there is not such possibility and their AI is pretty bad in close combat as they need to have rifle actually aimed at target. Lets see how ArmA2 works in this, but i don&#39;t know many games which uses same method for AI.

[Max Power]

I&#39;d imagine that the bullets actually come out of the centre of their foreheads anyways so knowing where the gun is pointing is an academic exercise.

Yeah, counter strike was so ahead of its time that it employed this &#39;AI trick&#39; too. Having bullets projected by the camera node is far more advanced than having mere virtual weapons functioning properly.

[Blackland]

Ego Tech Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee143EiB2gM
We have seen a technical Vido.  EGO = Engine, Tech = technical. Nothing else.

No graphics and no KI/AI Video.

I´m very cautious in an assessment what the finished of "OFP: DR" aka "OFP2" aka "Whatever".

It is not fair to judge now. We want to here (or in other forums) not about ArmA2.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif

Just wait and see.

[Second]

Having bullets projected by the camera node is far more advanced than having mere virtual weapons functioning properly.
I&#39;d say so too if AI can&#39;t handle firearm properly.

[Placebo]

No need to bump an old thread when there&#39;s an existing one here (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=11;t=77284)