CTF and Armed Assault horrible

[Dudester]

I just wonder if Bis will ever make CTF fun to play again. Alot of clan matches depend on CTF, so are we going to lose alot of clans due to the fact CTF is total rubbish now.

when i played OFP i always played in a clan. Team work depended on getting a flag, but once near the flag you had to be ready to take out... maybe 3 or 4 guys on your own, its only then you could make good your escape.

This game suffers badly when it comes to CTF, it just doesn't allow you the skill and speed needed to get a flag like OFP did. I remember the times i used to go for flags single handedly, and return them. The adrenaline used to pump and it felt good, unlike this.

Armed assault doesn't do this at all, its near on impossible to collect a flag and then tackle more then one player at a time. If your a confronted by more then one player you die most times.

I know people will say "yes but its a sim" and you cannot do that in real life, but wasn't OFP a sim back then according to most people? and lets all be honest, it was alot more fun getting a flag capped back then, without going a full 30 mins of constant play and no flags.

I don't only speak for myself here. I have alot of ofp players on my MSN who are feeling the same as me.

[Balschoiw]

One advice: More practise and scrap the BF tactics. Switch to different approaches and there you go.

[ck-claw]

or stick to BF2http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif?

[Dudester]

One advice: More practise and scrap the BF tactics. Switch to different approaches and there you go.
Didn't know battlefield 2 had a CTF? Always thought it was CH, and BTW i like that in AA. Don't you just hate it when people don't read and engage mouth. Like i said, i have lots of OFP players on MSN and as an OFP player myself, i cannot see the difference resorting to playing Battlefield 2

[froggyluv]

I gotta go with Balschoiw on this one. Practice, practice, practice. At first I tried what your talking about, trying to find the sneakiest way to sprint in. grab, sprint out. This only got me pwned every time and i almost gave up. But then I started waiting a little, let the ebb/flow of game develop, constantly coordinating my map with incoming radio, and (sometimes) working with a small support team. Starting racking up the points and let me tell you, the adrenaline gets very high. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Dudester]

I gotta go with Balschoiw on this one. Practice, practice, practice. At first I tried what your talking about, trying to find the sneakiest way to sprint in. grab, sprint out. This only got me pwned every time and i almost gave up. But then I started waiting a little, let the ebb/flow of game develop, constantly coordinating my map with incoming radio, and (sometimes) working with a small support team. Starting racking up the points and let me tell you, the adrenaline gets very high. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
Well i have not come across you on the maps i have played, because most of the CTF i have played have ended in stalmate.

[Terox]

I for one am glad Arma CTF plays differently to OFP CTF, no more mr teenager with fast mouse clicks kicking my ass anymore, now they have to engage the brain a bit too

maybe thats why it isnt liked by some eh ?

CTF doesnt exploit the true abilities of Arma or OFP anyway

Large scale battles over large areas with Human/AI groups is what BIS gaming is best suited for and maybe thats what the new league maps will go with, leaving the ex counterstrikers or BF2 clans to their CTF's

[guerilla [MCY]]

funny how much guys without a clue about real ctf clanwars coming allways to those threads, BIS stated that they will keep the balance of fun and sim, but they failed and went away from what ofp made an all in one engine for dm till cti. since 2 weeks i'm playing ofp again after 2 months of ArmA and i allready had twice the action mentioned by Dudester since, no excessive camping, fine moving behaviour etc etc.

but i'm still hoping for , what do i know, ArmA 1.96 ?

So far i heard that they fixed the "shooting while walking" issue and that the transmission into the crouch position runs smother, well that's a start at least...

[EvilNate]

IMO I think it depends on how the mission designer sets up the game.

Most of the CTF I've seen are in wide open areas. Maybe you are searching for more of a "arena" style map/mission/plan? Maybe try to make a CTF mission where it's deep inside parisio and you seal off a 4-5 block strip? Maybe i'm not reading close enough before engaging my keyboard, but these seem to be your points:

*Team work depended on getting a flag - I believe it still does.

* This game suffers badly when it comes to CTF, it just doesn't allow you the skill and speed needed to get a flag like OFP did. - Are you saying that the animations take too long to grab the flag? How does it prevent skill?

* Armed assault doesn't do this at all, its near on impossible to collect a flag and then tackle more then one player at a time. If your a confronted by more then one player you die most times. - I can't see how this invalidades ones expectations.

Anyway, I just think that you would probably enjoy a shorter\faster CTF mission\map.

/my 2c http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[walker]

Hi all

I just played 3 hours of a whole bunch of Urban CTFs on the new 1.40 server and it rocks.

With the on board coms we made a plan some covered with M249s others assaulted with G36s and grenades. Real team play.

Far better than OFP lots crawling in the shadows, trying to work out which side that dark shape at the building edge was. Lots of checking on coms.

Lots of where are the rest of you I just got killed.

Way more tactics and loads of fun.

Nice change after the 3 hours of big battle CTF I did yesterday. Tanks and vehicles big wide terrains moving through the valleys hiding in the forests. It was all using terrain and lots long engagement ranges with MG bullets suppressing, grenade launcher stonks; observe fire and maneuver, the whole 9 yards.

need to get together a team to do indirect fire with the grenade launcher maybe hmm at least till we have proper CoC artillery.

ArmA is so good I am doing something I never thought I would do or say.

I am retiring my OFP to live on a dusty book shelf.

The King is dead long live the new King

Kind Regards walker

[Celery]

What would make CTF fun for you then? Is it the lightning fast animations, über G36 or the right corner exploit?
Or maybe all of them together, huh?

If you aren't able to "pwn" like in OFP anymore, something's wrong with your adaptability. I haven't seen this much action in a CTF since 2003 when corner camping wasn't widespread. Your enemies don't spawn from nowhere to prevent your flag runs or returns, instead they are out there to get you instead of being stuck at the right side corners. The animation transitions are a bit too clumsy, but I'm optimistic about BIS fixing them.

To continue my rant I'm offended by some unnamed elitists who think that CQB players are brainless idiots who are better off playing CTF in Counter-Strike or Battlefield. Who are you to decide what this game is "meant" for? That joke is getting old, repeating it only shows your narrow-minded caveman attitude. I bet you oppose everything that you don't like yourselves. I might as well diss coop players for getting kicks out of killing braindead AIs, C&Hers for fighting in their yellowbelly tanks over a totally irrelevant piece of land for goddamn points and so on.

And if the author of this thread has been playing Hexenkessel or similar map, be advised that it's just a simple TDM disguised as a CTF to give a motivation to kill everybody. In truth it doesn't even have CTF scripts, flag takers are laughed at. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Dudester]

Hi all

I just played 3 hours of a whole bunch of Urban CTFs on the new 1.40 server and it rocks.

With the on board coms we made a plan some covered with M249s others assaulted with G36s and grenades. Real team play.

Far better than OFP lots crawling in the shadows, trying to work out which side that dark shape at the building edge was. Lots of checking on coms.

Lots of where are the rest of you I just got killed.

Way more tactics and loads of fun.

Nice change after the 3 hours of big battle CTF I did yesterday. Tanks and vehicles big wide terrains moving through the valleys hiding in the forests. It was all using terrain and lots long engagement ranges with MG bullets suppressing, grenade launcher stonks; observe fire and  maneuver, the whole 9 yards.

need to get together a team to do indirect fire with the grenade launcher maybe hmm at least till we have proper CoC artillery.

ArmA is so good I am doing something I never thought I would do or say.

I am retiring my OFP to live on a dusty book shelf.

The King is dead long live the new King

Kind Regards walker
Did you get a flag LMAO? Now i bet your going to say "yes" but if you have the tanks and all, its probable you did get a flag, but please read the post. "BRING BACK OFP LOL" best game ever apart from graphics.

[Killerwatt]

I was on the same server as Walker tonight and I have to say he is spot on. Sometimes I was on his team sometimes not, but I can say that voice coms in capture the flag really enhances the game play by leaps and bounds. I cant understand you guys that dont like this game. Either you are playing a different game or you want something other than tactics and team work in your games.

[Dudester]

lol at celery me old clan m8, that will come back to haunt you. I just hope the servers fill up abit more (No ctf). Everytime i connect there is less and less players.

[walker]

Did you get a flag LMAO? Now i bet your going to say "yes" but if you have the tanks and all, its  probable you did get a flag, but please read the post. "BRING BACK OFP LOL" best game ever apart from graphics.
Hi Dudester

It was a HexenKastle style Urban. Not tanks. Just like I said MGs G36s and grenades. There were a whole bunch other choices like silenced weapons etc.

Yes we got flags and lost them and regot them.

Scores for half hour battles 1<> 0 to 2 <> 0

Never saw more than 2 complete flag runs a side. Not enough people using their mikes yet. Lots of grabs though.

As Killerwatt will confirm we won more when we used coms to plan and execute the plan.

I also used Coms in some coops and it seriously rocks chanel options are a great advantage&#33;

Edit
I just realised this post is in the wrong section of the forum it should be in MP.

Also I suspect it is a duplicate thread and maybe needs to be combined with an existing thread.

I will let a Moddie know  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Kind Regards walker

[Luciano]

Yep, you got a point there. Lots of clans already left ARMA and I&#39;m sure more will leave.

Its funny how people that speaks against you are the people that play only coop. Same people talking about how great the flying is, yet they fly with a joystick and they use the helicopters for nothing more than fancy taxis.

Most of you blame this on lack of "practice", "practice", "practice".
Yet its the game&#39;s poor design in the CTF aspect that makes it lame, and boring.
This isn&#39;t even about the CTF only. CTI, RPG&#39;s, C&H, etc, all of that will suffer.

Since this is nothing but a coop only game, I&#39;m glad not to be part of this community in the future.

Oh, CTF is playable, nobody says its not. Only right now, its lame and boring. OFP ctf was interesting and fun to play. Not this.

Even RO&#39;s combat system is far more intense, fun, and interesting than ARMA CTF.
If the soldiers are Stalingrad would have acted like the robot soldiers in ARMA, it would have taken 10 years to end that battle.

And to the people thinking this will be fixed, lol it won&#39;t. Its not a bug, just bad design. To fix this will mean to fix the whole flawed "momentum" system. And that&#39;s way too much work for something that doesn&#39;t really benefit BIS. They rather come up with another unfinished expansion or something....

Stalker&#39;s coming out, and it has promising MP, plus a full SDK will be released soon after march. (Confirmed). So I&#39;m looking forward to that, then I&#39;ll really be out of here. However, I&#39;ll try to be positive and I wish BIS best of luck. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

[Dudester]

Did you get a flag LMAO? Now i bet your going to say "yes" but if you have the tanks and all, its  probable you did get a flag, but please read the post. "BRING BACK OFP LOL" best game ever apart from graphics.
Hi Dudester

It was a HexenKastle style Urban. Not tanks. Just like I said MGs G36s and grenades. There were a whole bunch other choices like silenced weapons etc.

Yes we got flags and lost them and regot them.

Scores for half hour battles 1<> 0 to 2 <> 0

Never saw more than 2 complete flag runs a side. Not enough people using their mikes yet. Lots of grabs though.

As Killerwatt will confirm we won more when we used coms to plan and execute the plan.

I also used Coms in some coops and it seriously rocks chanel options are a great advantage&#33;

Kind Regards walker
Well i find it very strange that nobody including my clan m8s get flags on this game.

[Shashman]

Team work(...)take out... maybe 3 or 4 guys on your own

(...)i used to go for flags single handedly

(...)tackle more then one player at a time. If your a confronted by more then one player you die most times.


So in that post not only do you contradict yourself, but you contradict what OFP and ArmA (When you&#39;re faced by more than one player and you decide to take them on all by yourself, you wonder WHY you die most times? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif )  are all about, what they were designed to be...

[Dudester]

Team work(...)take out... maybe 3 or 4 guys on your own

(...)i used to go for flags single handedly

(...)tackle more then one player at a time. If your a confronted by more then one player you die most times.


So in that post not only do you contradict yourself, but you contradict what OFP and ArmA (When you&#39;re faced by more than one player and you decide to take them on all by yourself, you wonder WHY you die most times? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif )  are all about, what they were designed to be...
Erm? I didn&#39;t say that? I said i would tack them on near the flag, and then i would need my skill alone and not rely on team mates to help me.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[Max Power]

I love this &#39;classic car syndrome&#39; when it comes to OFP from ArmA...

If people want to leave because their special interest is different and they were teh l33t h4x0rz of OFP and now they have to learn it all over again, I say "good bye and don&#39;t let the door hit you on the way out".

@<hidden>

The game mechanics in stalker are directly out of CS. It was designed by a CS clan.. so if you like supernatural CS with rocket launchers, by all means, be my guest.

[walker]

Well i find it very strange that nobody including my clan m8s get flags on this game.
Hi Dudester

I will not impugn you or your clan mates abilities I am sure with such a high post rate you are an experienced OFP player. So I have to ask some questions:

Which servers are you playing on?

Are you playing on 1.04 dedicated servers?

Which maps are you playing?

In Reply to Luciano
Since you your self have said you have given up on playing ArmA:
On what basis do you say the latest version is no good when you have never even played it?

I am sad to hear you are giving up on ArmA same as you did with OFP I think you will miss out with ArmA as you did with OFP.

I am, as with many others here, playing the latest version of ArmA and it is great&#33; The numbers on the servers are once more on the rise and with 1.05 I think we will see ArmA servers surpassing BF42 and the other run and gunners like counter strike within months the mod-ability of ArmA and the community will guarantee it.

Kind Regards Walker

[Luciano]

Quote[/b] ]@<hidden>

The game mechanics in stalker are directly out of CS. It was designed by a CS clan.. so if you like supernatural CS with rocket launchers, by all means, be my guest.

Well nobody knows how it is yet (expect beta testers), and your information is a little off. Developed by a CS clan? Since when was GSC a CS clan?
I can assure you its much different than CS. The only thing like CS is the buying system, combat is different. But that wasn&#39;t even my point. I&#39;ll take Red Orchestra any day over ARMA CTF.

Walker, OFP was a great game, and I&#39;ve missed nothing. From the old days of planefrenzy I and ST Piere CTF to the release of I44, I was there. I just can&#39;t see myself have the same experience with ARMA.

I haven&#39;t played the latest version but I don&#39;t need to. It doesn&#39;t change anything gameplay wise. I will still feel like controling a robot on Mars and having to wait for the inputs to reach it, so whats the point?

ARMA combat system is too slow, and it makes it too boring. So playing anything other than coop is pointless.
In ARMA its impossible to dogfight with a player using the mouse. So any maps like planefrenzy are pretty much useless.

Opinions are different only because we had different experiences with OFP and we played in a different style. Yet we were both happy, now its only people like you. So I rather leave.

For example, many things that were easy and simple in OFP, yet still gave the feeling of complexity, were changed in ARMA.
In OFP by checking the briefings you could also check your weapons, change them, etc. Now they included a different comand for that which is useless. Whats the point? They did the same thing with the controls with no benefits to the player.

[Max Power]

Dude, I participated in that community since the game was announced. I&#39;ve taken part in many discussions. Go over to their forums and search for that information. The devs at GSC have a CS clan that they participate in. Since when? I don&#39;t know. Since before they started working on the gameplay mechanics of Stalker and until at least a year ago.

Go on and assure me all you want, LOL.

[Luciano]

What the heck you talking about? I know people that have the MP beta, so stop telling me BS about how similar it is to CS.

Just because they had a CS clan doesn&#39;t mean their MP aspect of the game is the same. According to your logic, if BIS members played CS, ARMA is like CS?
Just because they had a CS clan doesn&#39;t mean its like CS.

[Max Power]

Wow, you know people. I&#39;ve played it.. in terms of the way everything moves and works, it&#39;s very much like CS only outdoors and everyone is wearing stupid costumes...

[Shashman]

 Yet we were both happy, now its only people like you.  So I rather leave.  
As was said earlier,

"Please don&#39;t let the door hit you on your way out"


If by "people like you", you mean Walker, then I&#39;ll even help you leave http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

Walker is a model OFP/ArmA player/community member in my opinion. The few games I played with him (over a year ago on Zeus) are what OFP was designed for, and is best suited to.

[Luciano]

wow, in terms of how they look, every FPS is pretty much the same. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
Way to go Einsten...

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

[Max Power]

wow, in terms of how they look, every FPS is pretty much the same. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
Way to go Einsten...

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif
LOL. Perhaps you misunderstood me. Maybe that is my fault. Perhaps you aren&#39;t replying directly to me- this is also a possibility since you&#39;re not making any sense... in either case, I was saying that the way everything works (ie. the way the guns shoot, the damage done, the physics (their ODE calls seem to function much in the same way as havoc does, only the ragdolls seem looser and more floaty), and the way everything moves (ie. people run around like hovercrafts with a prerender gun waving in front of their face) very similar to the way they do in CS. Also, the costumes are stupid...

I&#39;m not quite sure what you are trying to say with your personal attack. I&#39;ll just take it as you couldn&#39;t find anything better to say and therefore you have nothing further to add or to challenge my argument with. Have a nice day.

[Luciano]

Edit: Since you played it, you probably know more, so I&#39;ll just take your word.

But lets get back on topic, and Shahman, have fun trying to find a populated server a few months from now on. Remember, your the minority, and how many people will play this Game 3-6 months from now on will prove me right. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

[hoz]

Moving to MP.

Lets keep this on topic, if you have a complaint use the Complaint thread (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=64;t=55305)

Luciano if you have nothing constructive to add then move along.

[PlayeR87]

going solo to capture a flag is a stupid idea
teamwork is what gets it done
and whats this about combat being slow? its only as slow as you make it

[Shashman]

Shahman, have fun trying to find a populated server a few months from now on.  Remember, your the minority, and how many people will play this Game 3-6 months from now on will prove me right.   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif
I play single player http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

And "minority"? I beg your pardon? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif

[AUS_Twisted]

Ever played the original Unreal Tournament in a CTF with good players on both sides? I can tell ya right now it&#39;s far harder to bring the flag back then ArmA. Good teams will always have people protecting the flag along with others to try and take the enemy&#39;s, if you have 3 or 4 good players in defence you can pretty much make it impossible for the other side to take the flag obviously depending on the map or mission size and how many players etc.

In the ArmA demo I once managed to take the enemy flag 3 times in a row without dieing using the good ole M249 lol, some luck and help from players on my side.

[Celery]

What exactly is the problem with the CTF combat in ArmA? All I have gathered this far is that "it sucks" and "it&#39;s slow". Your memory is tricking you if you think that OFP was a lot faster. In OFP you could have a battle between two guns sticking out of corners for a minute with nothing going on except the corner campers shooting that poor guy who thinks advancing is the key to win the game.

The action in ArmA is a lot more straightforward, mainly because you&#39;re not invincible in a certain position and so moving about the map doesn&#39;t increase the already high risk of getting shot so much comparatively.

[Mora2]

I just wonder if Bis will ever make CTF fun to play again. Alot of clan matches depend on CTF, so are we going to lose alot of clans due to the fact CTF is total rubbish now.

when i played OFP i always played in a clan. Team work depended on getting a flag, but once near the flag you had to be ready to take out... maybe 3 or 4 guys on your own, its only then you could make good your escape.

This game suffers badly when it comes to CTF, it just doesn&#39;t allow you the skill and speed needed to get a flag like OFP did. I remember the times i used to go for flags single handedly, and return them. The adrenaline used to pump and it felt good, unlike this.

Armed assault doesn&#39;t do this at all, its near on impossible to collect a flag and then tackle more then one player at a time. If your a confronted by more then one player you die most times.

I know people will say "yes but its a sim" and you cannot do that in real life, but wasn&#39;t OFP a sim back then according to most people? and lets all be honest, it was alot more fun getting a flag capped back then, without going a full 30 mins of constant play and no flags.

I don&#39;t only speak for myself here. I have alot of ofp players on my MSN who are feeling the same as me.
totally agreed man.

Someone opened a very similar post some months ago and someone will open a very similar thread in a few months.

This game has failed in this aspect.

And thats is quite an error cause MP and CTF is nearly a 75% of a games life for most players.

And for that poster that says this system now requieres more brain, well, that is utter crap, it just requieres being most sadomasochist and more ability to support this clunky playable system that favorises coops.


If the soldiers are Stalingrad would have acted like the robot soldiers in ARMA, it would have taken 10 years to end that battle.  

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

So true.

[whisper]

I disagree with that last figures. OFP sold million+, and I never saw million + people online, far far from that. The main OFP crowd are the solo campaign players I guess (and there, they&#39;ll be disapointed by ArmA)

[Celery]

Anyone like to answer my question a few posts above, or is it too difficult? I also want to know how the system favors coop style of play.

[whisper]

Nono, Celery, it just "sucks", that is all.

From what I gathered :
- new 3D ironsight wobble way too much and it&#39;s too difficult to aim. Or too long to bring up scopes, stop breathing, etc... making it too slow. Personnaly, I disagree, as all this stuff is only needed for long range shooting, CQB stays the same. It just reduced long range easiness of OFP, which was, let be honest, way too much easy-mode laser-like precision, imho. ArmA system just reduced the effective range of all, it&#39;s just about tactic adaptation.
- animation are clunky. I kinda agree on this one for a few aspects, mainly the unstoppable anims and the delay between anim that can be annoying. Nothing showstopper for me yet (keeping in mind I&#39;m not great in the game so it may be more annoying to better people), and Suma stated they are working on the grenade unstoppable anim, so that is definitely something BI can correct.

That&#39;s the 2 gripes I&#39;ve understood so far.

[froggyluv]

Well i have not come across you on the maps i have played, because most of the CTF i have played have ended in stalmate.
Probably because you have the full game while I&#39;m on the measly demo http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I play on the {LOL} Big Top Demo dedicated server which is always full under the name &#39;Greg&#39;. Just finished 3 games ending in 3-0; 2-1; 4-0. I play about 10-12 games a day and they end in 0-0 about 20% of the time.

[walker]

Hi all

What I find interesting here is people who have admitted they do not play the game making pronouncements on it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

I do play the game. So my comments are at least based in observation of the game.

Over this weekend I played 6 hours solid of CTFs a mix of Closed Box Urban Hexen Castle and Big Battle CTF.

Lots of flag captures and touches and normal levels of completed flag runs with scores of 1<> 0 to 2<>0 so none of those comments I have seen by people who have admitted they do not play ArmA are born out in reality.

Dont believe me?

See me on the Shark server or the others and find out for your self.

Kind Regards Walker

[Celery]

- new 3D ironsight wobble way too much and it&#39;s too difficult to aim. Or too long to bring up scopes, stop breathing, etc...
People didn&#39;t take time to aim through scopes in OFP, why should ArmA be different? A purebred CTF player uses only the crosshair in maps where distance is not an issue. The sights in OFP were a bit too static to be realistic and the insta-scopes should be obsolete in every game by now.

What I&#39;m trying to understand is, why should CTF have special needs, afterall it&#39;s only a game mode (kill people and take flags) inside Armed Assault, and Armed Assault is what it is.

[=JpS=SgtRock]

Lots of flag captures and touches and normal levels of completed flag runs with scores of 1<> 0 to 2<>0 so none of those comments I have seen by people who have admitted they do not play ArmA are born out in reality.

Dont believe me?
I wouldn&#39;t be bragging about CTF scores like that. If those are typical, then vanilla CTF is broken. Scores should be more like 6-4 or 7-3.

There is a nice way of opening up the game, though. The Team Fortress design team figured out an elegant answer years ago. You simply set a timer on the flag once it&#39;s dropped instead of returning it as soon as the friendly team touches it. As long as the opposing team doesn&#39;t touch it, it eventually returns on its own. Makes for great battles all over a map instead of constantly battling in the same couple of places. It enhances CTF by making it more open ended. Defensive minded types need to adapt to constantly changing circumstances. All in all, it&#39;s a great way to play CTF.

[froggyluv]

What I find interesting here is people who have admitted they do not play the game making pronouncements on it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

I do play the game. So my comments are at least based in observation of the game.
I can only assume your referring to my post as I stated that I play the demo. It&#39;s the same engine and maybe not 1.04 but it&#39;s over the 1.02 czech/German engine so whats your point?

Obviously you had the Demo and made &#39;observations&#39; on it as well before you got the full game. Were those observations not based in &#39;reality&#39;?

[Celery]

I wouldn&#39;t be bragging about CTF scores like that. If those are typical, then vanilla CTF is broken. Scores should be more like 6-4 or 7-3.
Maybe in Unreal Tournament or Soldier of Fortune 2, scores like that are almost impossible in a game like OFP or ArmA. If one side is bound to win, they either do it 2-1 or 5-0 because you can&#39;t just grab a flag and run away with it as a fragile soldier and teams are rarely so equal that they kick each others&#39; asses in turns.

[=JpS=SgtRock]

If scores are so low, then the game isn&#39;t worth playing because it becomes virtually impossible for a team to come back once they&#39;re down by two caps.

Look, I&#39;m not advocating hard core Rambo play. However, if we&#39;re going to use a game goal like CTF then we should recognize that we&#39;ve already stepped away from the idea of the game as a military sim to some degree.

Why not reward a team by giving them an opportunity to advance a flag slowly across a map by constantly touching a flag to prevent its return? If you&#39;ve ever played the original Team Fortress or any other mod that used the same mechanism, you&#39;d know how much more fun it can be. Trust me, it really adds a lot to a CTF mod.

P.S. I&#39;m also not advocating a really long timer on a flag before its return. IIRC it was something like 60 or 90 seconds for TF. Believe me, it seems a lot longer when you&#39;re a flag defender&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Luciano]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe in Unreal Tournament or Soldier of Fortune 2, scores like that are almost impossible in a game like OFP or ArmA. If one side is bound to win, they either do it 2-1 or 5-0 because you can&#39;t just grab a flag and run away with it as a fragile soldier and teams are rarely so equal that they kick each others&#39; asses in turns.
I had scores like that and I know many people who did. A lot of clanplayers had scores like that back in the day. It seems you were just a lonewolf player who never played in tournaments with good clans.

I&#39;m out of this thread. When you can find only few populated servers in ARMA, think of what I said.

[Celery]

If scores are so low, then the game isn&#39;t worth playing because it becomes virtually impossible for a team to come back once they&#39;re down by two caps.

Look, I&#39;m not advocating hard core Rambo play. However, if we&#39;re going to use a game goal like CTF then we should recognize that we&#39;ve already stepped away from the idea of the game as a military sim to some degree.

Why not reward a team by giving them an opportunity to advance a flag slowly across a map by constantly touching a flag to prevent its return? If you&#39;ve ever played the original Team Fortress or any other mod that used the same mechanism, you&#39;d know how much more fun it can be. Trust me, it really adds a lot to a CTF mod.
Removing the return flag action is very hard if not impossible, of course I&#39;d be intrigued to try a different approach. But CTF is still CTF, and the best team gets the most flags to win. There shouldn&#39;t be downright handicaps to allow a victory based on more luck than already is involved.

There is CTF in this "military sim" because it&#39;s a game mode like all others, and no other game compares to the gameplay of OFP and ArmA. So people want to play an unrealistic game mode in a realistic setting, in contrast to BF2 being based on C&H (for argument&#39;s sake let&#39;s call it realistic). They do CTF in military trainings to perfect a team&#39;s cohesion and tactics.

[Celery]

I had scores like that and I know many people who did. A lot of clanplayers had scores like that back in the day.
So you&#39;re referring to the ancient days when nobody even knew about corner camping. Sad to break the bubble, but OFP has been a different game since 2003.


It seems you were just a lonewolf player who never played in tournaments with good clans.
Funny of you to mention, I have been with the MercenaryS (Biki article (http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/MercenaryS)) since 2004 and Balance of Power before that. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

[AUS_Twisted]

Lots of flag captures and touches and normal levels of completed flag runs with scores of 1<> 0 to 2<>0 so none of those comments I have seen by people who have admitted they do not play ArmA are born out in reality.

Dont believe me?
I wouldn&#39;t be bragging about CTF scores like that.  If those are typical, then vanilla CTF is broken.  Scores should be more like 6-4 or 7-3.

There is a nice way of opening up the game, though.  The Team Fortress design team figured out an elegant answer years ago.  You simply set a timer on the flag once it&#39;s dropped instead of returning it as soon as the friendly team touches it.  As long as the opposing team doesn&#39;t touch it, it eventually returns on its own.  Makes for great battles all over a map instead of constantly battling in the same couple of places.  It enhances CTF by making it more open ended.  Defensive minded types need to adapt to constantly changing circumstances.  All in all, it&#39;s a great way to play CTF.
I guess games like Football/Soccer are broken then with such low scores, I wonder why the game even exists http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

Some CTF games can be like this depending on the teams and map/mission with very low scores which is what makes it so special like Football/Soccer when your team wins because it&#39;s very challenging.

If you want higher scoring CTF games then thats really easy to do, move spawn points further away from the flags or change the respawn timer to higher values. The weapons and vehicles available also decides on how hard it is to score.

[[-DST-] HIGHLANDER]

im with dudster on this, there aint anymore CTfS anymore  with this slow anims is more like a 30 min TDM, thats being honest as i play both ARMA and ofp still, BIS  why did you have to fuck up player anims, and not leave them the way they were, i think the majority of people, and when i say people i dont mean coop ai killers, that the anims are to slow  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif p.s i still like the game but i think faster anims will take this game for CTF players to a new level http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif

[DST_STRYKER]

First I agree with alot of the comments here.

The way I see it is, us CTF players have a hell of a challenge on our hands. Theres no doubt the camping CTF players are lapping this game up, it&#39;s been handed to them on a plate with chips and theyre all taking a bite...

Right now for me as the leader of a clan who run from cover to cover on full auto like red indians dodging bullets and howling it puts a hell of an obstacle in our way.

ArmA anims are such alot slower than OFP, and theres 2 ways around that for us. The easy but impractical way is to develop or adopt some kind of smoother/faster anim mod for league games, which would make public games tough. The second option is to adapt ourselves and not the game, and get stuck into learning a more patient way of playing for CTF.

I sure know alot of the old and some of the best players from OFP have come into ArmA, played it, and won&#39;t come back... and that includes a few guys from my own team. But to be honest I dont think any other game out to date comes close to the OFP/ArmA style, so ultimately this is the game we should be investing our time in.

ArmA has alot of potential

Stryker

[cain2001]

ECL map use 40s respawn time and a greater distance from spawn to base, this makes it possible for more flagruns to be made. They also made the gaming time to 40 minutes rather than 30 min in standard games.

Alot can be said here, as for public play its everyman for himself and his way of gaming. For Clanwars different leagues will be availble.

[walker]

Hi all

I think AUS_Twisted hit the nail on the head.

This thread is not about ArmA not working for CTF. ArmA is in fact working fine for CTF, witness how much fun I and the 100s of other more professional and cerebral real CTF players currently playing ArmA are having.

We are talking about some specific missions for people who like lots of flag runs. So they need missions with adjustments to allow that kind of game play. It is just down to those people making such mission scenarios in the editor as suit their style of play.

I personally prefer more of the thought out game play you get for real CTF; with out those play in the box type games, other than for a mad half hour.

If you are a real CTF player you play the big battle type CTF where tactics and choice of ground and weapons suitable for that bit of ground and coms and team play become important. ArmA is not the limited number of weapon style of play you see in Soldner Counter Strike and the other Unreal Engine. It would be odd to drag ArmA down to that old style of technology.

There appear to be a lot of people making comments here who do not even have the game or have never even run the editor to make their own games to suit their own style of play.

I personally do not play that kind of style of CTF very often. I remeber it from the 90s with the Duke Nuke Em and Doom Quake days but things have moved on Players want more nowadays. So I probably wont be bothered to make that kind of mission. I do not know what kind of demand there is for that style of CTF.

You will never see the style of CTF you want unless you make the mission to suit your style. If you really think there is a demand for this style of CTF then you need to make the missions of that type and see if people really want to play them.

Kind Regards walker

[Platoon_Patton]

ECL map use 40s respawn time and a greater distance from spawn to base, this makes it possible for more flagruns to be made. They also made the gaming time to 40 minutes rather than 30 min in standard games.
Not correct;

ECL uses a dynamic respawntime,the more players the longer the respawntime.Also 40 minutes gameplay was used in the Combi maps,a mixture of CTF with C&H,they have the advantage of adding 1 extra point of intrest on the map,so non flagrunners who moved up to the enemy spawn/flagarea have to fall back to Midflag instead.

Oh and the most tense games I ever played ended 1-1 on flagcaps,the winner was decided by the Midflagscore and nobody in the team was sure about the endscore untill the enddialog showed the winner. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

I am with Stryker,ArmA is ArmA.

Remember the addagio:Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

[lwlooz]

I know this is completly futile , but are you guys are aware that the animation-system is completly not hardcoded into the game?

I would not bet on it and I am leaning out of the window here , but it might be even possible to get OFP-kinda anims working for the new models somewhat , they won&#39;t look as pretty tho.

Disclaimer: I am not a anims-maker,so take above with a grain of salt.Still it is very editable

[PlayeR87]

ctf is a brilliant game mode and i can see nothing wrong with it perhaps its the people who are complaining that are flawed? :P

[Luciano]

Quote[/b] ]ArmA anims are such alot slower than OFP, and theres 2 ways around that for us. The easy but impractical way is to develop or adopt some kind of smoother/faster anim mod for league games, which would make public games tough. The second option is to adapt ourselves and not the game, and get stuck into learning a more patient way of playing for CTF.

Or third option which is not to play at all. That&#39;s the way I&#39;m going http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I&#39;m pretty sure the movement is hardcoded. In most games it is anyway.

[whisper]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe in Unreal Tournament or Soldier of Fortune 2, scores like that are almost impossible in a game like OFP or ArmA. If one side is bound to win, they either do it 2-1 or 5-0 because you can&#39;t just grab a flag and run away with it as a fragile soldier and teams are rarely so equal that they kick each others&#39; asses in turns.
I had scores like that and I know many people who did. A lot of clanplayers had scores like that back in the day. It seems you were just a lonewolf player who never played in tournaments with good clans.
Says the guy to a MCY member http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif


Quote[/b] ]I&#39;m out of this thread. When you can find only few populated servers in ARMA, think of what I said.Doomsayer knows-it-all striking again. I wonder how you could talk that long to peons like ourselves http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif

[walker]

Or third option which is not to play at all.  That&#39;s the way I&#39;m going  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I&#39;m pretty sure the movement is hardcoded.  In most games it is anyway.
Hi all

Luciano you have already said you do not have the game and that you are CS unreal Fan-boy so how can you possibly give up a game you have never bought?

Your complete lack of knowledge of both OFP and ArmA modding is evident to one and all so making false pronouncements on a game engine you have never modded tends to make you perhaps look a little foolish.

If you really think the CTF style game play you like and that is becoming extinct with the decline in CS can be rescued by moving it to a more modern game such as ArmA then you need to buy the game and fire up the mission editor and make those style of missions; just like original CS guys did.

Kind Regards walker

[whisper]

Quote[/b] ]ArmA anims are such alot slower than OFP, and theres 2 ways around that for us. The easy but impractical way is to develop or adopt some kind of smoother/faster anim mod for league games, which would make public games tough. The second option is to adapt ourselves and not the game, and get stuck into learning a more patient way of playing for CTF.

Or third option which is not to play at all. That&#39;s the way I&#39;m going http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I&#39;m pretty sure the movement is hardcoded. In most games it is anyway.
Wrong. Animation description is part of any addons and unit description and 3D files. Same for animation transitions. How do you expect OFP addon units to adapt to the new weapons they are holding, or jump on tanks like RHS crew did, etc?

[=JpS=SgtRock]

Removing the return flag action is very hard if not impossible, of course I&#39;d be intrigued to try a different approach. But CTF is still CTF, and the best team gets the most flags to win. There shouldn&#39;t be downright handicaps to allow a victory based on more luck than already is involved.
I didn&#39;t know that. Maybe use a different object then?

Quote[/b] ]There is CTF in this "military sim" because it&#39;s a game mode like all others, and no other game compares to the gameplay of OFP and ArmA. So people want to play an unrealistic game mode in a realistic setting, in contrast to BF2 being based on C&H (for argument&#39;s sake let&#39;s call it realistic). They do CTF in military trainings to perfect a team&#39;s cohesion and tactics.
Yep. I played CTF (among other games) when I was in boot camp. I suppose I should mention that I was a squid, not a grunt, though.

I&#39;ve also been playing CTF in all kinds of games since Threewave first released the mod for QuakeWorld, so I flatter myself that I know a bit about what works and what doesn&#39;t for this particular game type. Well, I know what works for me. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif


I guess games like Football/Soccer are broken then with such low scores, I wonder why the game even exists http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

Some CTF games can be like this depending on the teams and map/mission with very low scores which is what makes it so special like Football/Soccer when your team wins because it&#39;s very challenging.

Soccer??? Meh. Over the past few decades the rules changes have devolved it into the single most boring game on the planet. Me, I&#39;ve always preferred hockey. You will actually see more scoring than the usual snore fest that you get with soccer. Even with the slower pace when it&#39;s played on a Olympic rink. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Back on topic. I still contend that if CTF is played as essentially TDM in tournament play, then it&#39;s broken. If scores are consistently counted in binary, then IMO it&#39;s broken badly. It&#39;s definitely time to re-think the mod in that case.

Ah well. If I&#39;m right, some decent coder will come up with an alternative that works. If I&#39;m wrong, then I&#39;ll be playing another type of game. God, I love the moddability of OpFlash and ArmA&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Luciano]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

Luciano you have already said you do not have the game and that you are CS unreal Fan-boy so how can you possibly give up a game you have never bought?

Where have I said that? I have the game and it blows big time. Why else would I come to these forums if I didn&#39;t have the game?

[AUS_Twisted]

Well it doesn&#39;t matter what game your playing CTF in, if your defensive team is good enough you can make it very very hard for the other team to score. But just like in a lot of sports you need to balance your offense and defensive sides.

The same tactic also applies to MFCTI and CRCTI etc.

[Frantic]

Hi all&#33;

Im one of those mission makers, who decided to creat his own CTF maps in ArmA.

We played already some friendly clan wars on some CQB CTFs and it was a real rumble. Both sides were able to score flags.
The fight went the whole time up and down for my team and you needed real teamplay to got the chance of touching a flag.

For those who are totally unhappy with the movements of ArmA:
i liked the old OFP style too, but it was always more a gameplay like headless chicken running around and i remember that we hated the campers back in OFP too.

Now in ArmA i just see that its nolonger sooo easy to sprint, stop and shoot...but i think thats more realistic, try to sprint and shoot one bullet in the head of a guy 30meters away...can be only luck if u hit&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

You need to think of your ways and where u can sprint instead of walking.
CTFs in ArmA are now way more teamplay based...without cover and backup you rarely will get a flag.

Im already used to the ArmA movements and i did already some nice scores on maps like over 50 kills and sometimes it happens that i see more than 2 enemies in front of me and i shoot them all with one magazine, so i rarely see ur probs.

I just think that you guys need more practice and you need some improvements of your teamplay to be able to own in ArmA&#33;
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif

with best wishes
Frantic

[Mora2]

Now in ArmA i just see that its nolonger sooo easy to sprint, stop and shoot...but i think thats more realistic, try to sprint and shoot one bullet in the head of a guy 30meters away...can be only luck if u hit&#33;  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
Yeah??

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.

There has to be a mix between realism and fun, and Arma has gone too much through that spoiling all the fun.

There is nothing worng in playin Swat style at some moments.

[Celery]

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.
The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I&#39;ve said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it&#39;s a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.

[Mora2]

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.
The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I&#39;ve said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it&#39;s a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.
You are saying it, and contradicting yourself.

Mix between game modes... well that shoulkd also include a mix between different type of games and right know swat type style of combat is near impossible. ( and swat type style is realistic in the correct situation )

In fact majority of people directly go for the no aim method cause if they zoom in they´re dead.

[Celery]

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.
The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I&#39;ve said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it&#39;s a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.
You are saying it, and contradicting yourself.

Mix between game modes... well that shoulkd also include a mix between different type of games and right know swat type style of combat is near impossible. ( and swat type style is realistic in the correct situation )

In fact majority of people directly go for the no aim method cause if they zoom in they´re dead.
How am I contradicting? My message is that CTF is only a game mode like all others and if you want to play CTF in a game like ArmA, you should be comfortable with the game itself and not demand changes at the expense of all others.

Capture the Flag is no more and no less than having two teams taking each others&#39; flags, no matter the game you are playing it on.

[whisper]

Well you know what it isnt also realistic??

To grab a flag while shooting to death.
The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I&#39;ve said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it&#39;s a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.
You are saying it, and contradicting yourself.

Mix between game modes... well that shoulkd also include a mix between different type of games and right know swat type style of combat is near impossible. ( and swat type style is realistic in the correct situation )

In fact majority of people directly go for the no aim method cause if they zoom in they´re dead.
Wait wait wait.... how come they are dead if they zoom. How in hell could the ennemy shoot them? Knowing the ennemy is ofc bound to the same limitations (what you feel is too imprecise aiming system). By what magic could 1 guy hit his opponent when said opponent can&#39;t aim at him because "his scope wobbles too much"?

[MugHug]

Having run two OFP squads with one entering the War Games CTF ladder and winning first time, I cannot accept your view as based on a valid and balanced argument.

ArmA offers exactly the same advantages and disadvantages as OFP and CTF at it&#39;s best was always team-work and good communication. My squad member have found that exactly the same tactics work in ArmA as OFP.

I can still take the flag single-handed at times, but other times I cannot. Cannot expect to carry out the equivalent of taking a flag down from a pole in a hot-combat zone and not expect to be fired upon at if any defenders are near.

We accept that a flag defended needs teamwork. Some to draw out and deal with the defenders and others to take the flag..

Even when we defend we have at least two members hided away making it very difficult to take the flag. The better players work as a team to deal with us or the single player first works on us before the flag. Sounds like common sense.

Maybe a re-evaluation of skills and tactics by you and your friends are in need.

To blame ArmA does a dis-service to BIS who have delivered one of the best tactical combat simulations available to the general public up to date. Like everything it is not perfect, but as nothing can stand-up and compare to it&#39;s scope and versatility, put your blame elsewhere.

NOTE: Have any of those players that support the original poster&#39;s views ever considered that just like in real combat you need to secure an area before doing things like taking flags down.

That sounds like a no-brainer considering it is advertised by BIS as &#39;the most realistic warfare experience ever seen on a computer&#39;

Go back to your arcade games, if you cannot handle ArmA.

Regards,

MugHug [M.H.M]  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/nener.gif