New Gang In Town To Clean Up Campers!

[cain2001]

I don’t know if anyone remembers me but I was one of the four makers behind War On Campers. Many may think it was a movie but it was in fact a war on the servers (we mostly recall it being a slaughter). Camping is a part of the game but there’s Camping and Camping and it’s the bad kind of Camping that are being fought. So this is a heads up for all those of you who never are the first line of soldiers. You have been warned !!!

This is neither a clan nor a team. It’s a group of knights on a Crusade!!! When our call has been completed, we will dig the graves of many!

More Info here: http://www.onlinewarfare.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13159

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7862/image0ic2.jpg



<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:"Red"'>Download Bad Company Pre Movie (http://www.onlinewarfare.net/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=117)[</span></span>

<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>History</span>

Most of you know or have heard about the movie War On Campers. The idea of it was simple. Show the public the situation on the servers and what could be done about it. Fighting went on for a while but years later only one player would remain of the four. Being the only one left Bad Company is the new Anti Campers Nightmare.


<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>Mission</span>

With the release of ArmA a new threat was released and camping has grown to the better worse. Cornering isn’t possible but the leaning has made it a true camper’s paradise. With this new start a even bigger task than cleaning up some newbie’s stuck on a corner with their G36 in OFP thinking they are "good" players. With the tables turned it will be hard to keep a balance, out numbered and out gunned the fight wont stop until all of them have been fought and send home in a body bag.

[[myg0t]Azide]

Wow,

just wow.

-A

[[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-]

Cant catch me I&#39;m the gingerbread man
bake me a cake as fast as you can
knead it and roll it and cover it with glee
put it in the oven for mygot and me

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/band.gif

[CouchMonkey]

Thanks?

[slingblade20000]

Thats the funniest thing ive seen writen on here in a long time cain. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif . I thought that most people here on the forums had lost the sence of humor and turned into a bunch of Elite Haters. Were talking about a game that less than a 100 people are playing each night and you want to go after the campers. The Demo has been released worldwide and were talking about some diehard peeps trying to like the game so why dont you give the few peeps playing it a break. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[Dwarden]

damn i guess my sniper spots are now in danger http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

sadly i&#39;m deadly with anything what got IS http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif (did i told You i even rule with manual bolted rifles in ROO ? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

btw. but first You need find me http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/nener.gif

[cain2001]

Well to tell you the truth its just my own way of getting myself motivated to play http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif And Its funnier playing for a cause rather than just joining up and doing the same old. Now Ive a mission&#33; And I wont rest untill they all are 2 feet underground&#33; Ofcourse ill spare normal campers (unless they turn out to be pro campers)


The expression "I would like to go and camp in the woods" just got a whole different meaning&#33;

and

"Never before have camping in the woods been so dangerous"

[Zerg]

A self-righteous gang on a holly quest of extermination? Priests of justice bent on killing? The hands of God raining death and destruction upon the ville and the wicked? Sounds like a dream come true&#33;

Like a proper kamikaze without without the tinniest semblance of patience and caution I have always hated the campers with an undying intensity. And as rare as it happens managing to kill one of those Satan`s apprentices always fills me with an immense sense of accomplishment.

However it is a mystery to my why do you wish to limit this fine crusade to only four knightly warriors and aim it at just the leaning scum of CTF.

When justice calls the righteous to arms all that call themselves good should swarm to its side&#33; And in the holly struggle we should not hamper our efforts by placing limitations on them, but should strike wherever there is evil. A CTF in ArmA, a CTI in OFP, or a game of Cowboys and Indians on the plains of Nebraska it makes no difference. These evil creatures should know no respite and should be smitten into shambles wherever they dare practice their malicious trade&#33;

What is needed is not a company, but a whole auxiliary corps of volunteers. A Corps like no other before it. A Corps not held together by ranks and discipline, but only by the righteousness of its cause&#33;

Name: Anti-Camper Auxiliary Corps
Distinguishing mark: Red bandana tied to the head (to show the campers we know no fear&#33;)
Battle Cry: Come out and fight me like a man&#33;
Credo: My cause is my shield, my zeal is my ammo.
Tactics: Make up for the poor accuracy with the number of shots fired. Make up for the lack of common sense with zeal. Make up for the poor tactics with sheer numbers. Remember it is a great honor to fall in the service of justice&#33;
Modus Operandi: Mercilesly targeting and pursuing all variations of campers with an intent to kill wherever they are encountered. Providing them with the Coup de Grace after the kill by disgracing their bodies to ensure the salvation of their souls.

[[-DST-] HIGHLANDER]

im with you cain on this 1 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif

[[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-]

Cain, I don&#39;t know about you, but I would hire Zerg, muffaka is crazy http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[cain2001]

Then you shall have your Anti-Camper Auxiliary Corps but we need a round table of the knights and those knights will be under the BadCo flag&#33;

Finding campers are easy, they are always near bulding edges and any holes that will give them extra cover. Its pretty simple taking them out too, the problem lies in pushing them back into spawn and making sure they stay there because they have whole team with them. Since servers dont fit that many players the four man crew is the perfect way. 1 left, 1 right and 2 middle. With a core force of this setup a team of 12 could easily be taken out&#33;


Let the crusade

[Terox]

anti camping scripts were available for pvp missions, mainly used in ctf type mission to protect spawn zones.
If you really really do want to play ctf then you are probably into camping anyway, goes with the terriitory


system i am thinking off

If the killer shot a player in the respawn/protected zone, then the "killed" player was instantly respawned on the spot, re-armed with the weaponry he had when killed(respawn delay of 0.01)

while the murderer was subjected to a 5 minute time out in a cutscene after being setpossed to some offshore island


normal respawn time was controlled by a cutscene

it stopped the little bleeders, my opinion stay away from bf2/quake/counterstrike type gameplay and you dont ever need to worry about it.

As far as camping an important location is concerned, totally realistic and i dont see it as a problem. If there&#39;s a flag camper about, search and destroy him, however if its a respawn camper, it absolutely destroys the fun element of the game

[cain2001]

Terox that is acually a really good idea. Could come into very handy in league matches&#33;

[Terox]

Terox that is acually a really good idea. Could come into very handy in league matches&#33;
check out any ofp ecl mission using their templates for a "how to implement"

[frelli]

Cain. Are you the old -=SWEC=- Cain? If so, Hi http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif&#33;

[cain2001]

Cain. Are you the old -=SWEC=- Cain? If so, Hi http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif&#33;
Yeah, but its Cain #DK# now http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[frelli]

Aha&#33; Du minns mig SÄKERT inte. [TSP]Lundin hette jag, p&#229; gammla recistance. Minns Raptor och dom ox&#229;, du bytte ju till MOM inte sant.

[Abbe]

...this must be the stupidest thread I&#39;ve read so far&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

What is camping and what is not?

If someone *is* camping (whatever that is...) guess you guys gotta use another tactic...the "camper" is just as little bulletproof as you...?

Anticamp scripts&#33;? Saw that in Ofp and must say, what a pointless way of disturbing the gameplay in a nice designed game, maybe another faster game title would suit you guys better?

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

/Abbe

[ck-claw]

lol i think the thread is great&#33;&#33;&#33;

but the funniest thing i&#39;ve heard? was when i was sniping ppl and then get called a camper?? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[cain2001]

Quote[/b] ]Aha&#33; Du minns mig SÄKERT inte. [TSP]Lundin hette jag, p&#229; gammla recistance. Minns Raptor och dom ox&#229;, du bytte ju till MOM inte sant.

Känner vagt igen Lundin dock med andra speltaggar. Japp lira i MOM tills TCZ stängde, varit i DK sen dess&#33;


Quote[/b] ]
...this must be the stupidest thread I&#39;ve read so far&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

What is camping and what is not?

If someone *is* camping (whatever that is...) guess you guys gotta use another tactic...the "camper" is just as little bulletproof as you...?

Anticamp scripts&#33;? Saw that in Ofp and must say, what a pointless way of disturbing the gameplay in a nice designed game, maybe another faster game title would suit you guys better?

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

/Abbe

Thats why i explainded theres different types of camping. Someone sitting on a buildings edge leaning with a barbewire infront of him making it impossible to hit him will just ruin the game. Its lame and very unmature. Camping is a part of the game but exploiting it like some player does in ArmA is just wrong http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Celery]

I don&#39;t like Terox&#39; idea of spawn protection. 5 minutes for shooting someone behind a line? Get real, losing a soldier on the far side of the map is already a bit too harsh especially if the guy in spawn area wasn&#39;t quite innocent.

The ECL and TNT maps had a problem with people camping just inside their spawn line and "fishing" unsuspecting enemies to shoot them. The present system on most maps of using no entry areas and covering possible spawn raping positions with that area is far superior. Keep the spawn (place where people spawn and pick ammo) covered with terrain or buildings, it shouldn&#39;t be a big problem for a map maker.

[richard_dean_anderson]

I don&#39;t understand why people try to turn this game into BF2. The appeal of OFP and ArmA, at least for me, is that the maps are big. Ideally, I&#39;d like to play some maps where the idea of "camping" in a place where soldiers "spawn" is obsolete. From what I&#39;ve played of this game so far, most of the MP servers play either coops or small CTF&#39;s where every human player controls himself, with no one else in his squad, and just run off randomly. Then, once you die, you get pretty much instantly respawned back at the base to repeat the whole thing over. The whole thing about areas being off limits, "being shot for desertion" etc is just stupid. I&#39;m also not very fond of scoreboards. This stuff takes away from the whole "war" feeling, and makes it feel more like a an arcade game or a paintball game. NO, you cant shoot me here, I&#39;m in respawn safe zone&#33;@<hidden>&#33;&#33; Boring, gimme some large scale maps that require actual teamwork and strategy.

[Heatseeker]

Yeah, we must run around in the open like headless chicken because if we use cover and tactics the game isnt fun http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif .

This is just one of those stupid things CTF players come up with...

Sorry but i honestly dont get it...

[Zerg]

Maybe if you don`t know squat it aint proper for you to diss people you obviously know nothing about so you can feel all superior because you can run from a bush to bush.

Telling a DK about tactics lol.

[Soviet Spetsnaz]

War on campers. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

Get a life.

[Terox]

For those that dont understand what we are discussing here.
Spawn camping is when someone lays in a hidden location and takes down unsuspecting enemies as they either respawn or leave their respawning area.

Its seen by many as very bad form of gameplay. mainly because those who want to play fair, simply want to get back into the playing area of the flags etc and dont see a respawn zone or its border as a viable location for ambushing

Sat in a hide, sniping a flag isnt seen as bad gameplay, infact its real life tactics, this i believe isnt at question here

Spawn camping gameplay is created by having a single linear pathway to the objectives, or limited concentrated gameplay area&#39;s

Take a ctf for instance, the line between your respawn zone, your flag, the enemy flag and their respawn zone is, in 99 times out of 100 cases a straight line whith the majority of players following that line give or take 50 meteres either side of it

This means that a 12 man team could work the majority of its members at a respawn zone (away from the playing area) leaving a small contingent to cap flags at their leisure. A tactic often seen in CTF league play, where a teams cohesion and teamwork was much stronger than would be seen in public play

Fortunately C&H was developed, mainly thanks to Tactician
This style of map normally consisted of 3 flags, sometimes more
From a spawn camping point of view, the single linear pathway from spawn was now tripled, each path leading to a single flag A camping team now had to spread out over at least 6 locations

and ideally had to protect pathways between these 3 flags as well. The gameplay shifted from 1 flag to another as they were "capped". There simply was too many holes to plug, so spawn camping C&H was difficult to accomplish apart from the odd few badly sited missions

CTI
A) well you had to find their base
B) then you had to get past the AI
and then if you managed to shoot a unit, his mates would soon send you back to your respawnand CTI was all about ripping into the base anyway

A&D
How can you spawn camp either side when there is no respawn



So to prevent spawn camping, you either
1) Create multiple pathways to multi objective playing areas
2) for missions like CTF, create a protected zone with some form of spawn camping punishment system, because if you dont, some teams will abuse the system and not play fair

If both teams are aware of how they will be punished if they break the rules of engagement, then they so deserve a 5 minute time out of whatever other punishment that fits the bill

If ya dont want the punishment, dont spawn camp... simple&#33;

[whisper]

I don&#39;t understand why people try to turn this game into BF2. The appeal of OFP and ArmA, at least for me, is that the maps are big. Ideally, I&#39;d like to play some maps where the idea of "camping" in a place where soldiers "spawn" is obsolete. From what I&#39;ve played of this game so far, most of the MP servers play either coops or small CTF&#39;s where every human player controls himself, with no one else in his squad, and just run off randomly. Then, once you die, you get pretty much instantly respawned back at the base to repeat the whole thing over. The whole thing about areas being off limits, "being shot for desertion" etc is just stupid. I&#39;m also not very fond of scoreboards. This stuff takes away from the whole "war" feeling, and makes it feel more like a an arcade game or a paintball game. NO, you cant shoot me here, I&#39;m in respawn safe zone&#33;@<hidden>&#33;&#33; Boring, gimme some large scale maps that require actual teamwork and strategy.
Give it time, mission makers are working http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Heatseeker]

...
I understand what your on about, i agree that "measures" to prevent spawn camping are important in team based, adversarial game modes.

I also agree that this should be taken into acount by mission editors while creating maps.

Creating safe respawn areas and non linear/multiple objectives, using the terrain effectively, etc to prevent spawn camping and creating a less predictable and more challenging battlefield.

But this thread is about something else...

[walker]

Thats why i explainded theres different types of camping. Someone sitting on a buildings edge leaning with a barbewire infront of him making it impossible to hit him will just ruin the game. Its lame and very unmature. Camping is a part of the game but exploiting it like some player does in ArmA is just wrong http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Hi all

There is nothing wrong with people finding a good spot to camp and snipe from.

This is not whiner BF42 or run and gun land.

This is what the M-203 is for. Hopfuly the multiple grenade launchers like the M-32 or the new MASTER BLASTER: Milkor MGL-140 will be in ArmA soon.

In OFP I made it my speciality to kill snipers by listening to their shots and guessing where they were hid... I loved suprising them with 3 nades on their little spot, squelch sniper jam  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I dare say a few of the Zeus crowd can atest to my accuracy with an M-32.

It is much easier now in ArmA with the sonic snap modeled now I can guess range much better. It is also a great weapon for recon by fire on bushes and buildings. You either kill em or the wounded scream and the next nade puts them out of their missery. The only downside is runing out of nades and limited range. But that is what your silenced machine pistol like your scorpion or mach ten is for.

Kind Regards walker

[froggyluv]

I agree Walker its very realistic to guard a protected resource(flag) with snipers and to have to flush them out.

My issue is with Arma&#39;s sound though. I play with headphones but It just seems like the audio effects are&#39;nt coming from an exact location unlike ofp. Is this a standard problem in the game or something on my end that needs to enabled.

[richard_dean_anderson]

Give it time, mission makers are working http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Yep, that&#39;s what I&#39;m doing. I have no doubt that pretty soon we&#39;ll have some good MP missions that will let us play the way the game is meant to be played. Namely a proper CTI. Then all I&#39;ll need to do is find some quality people to play with.

[Celery]

...that will let us play the way the game is meant to be played. Namely a proper CTI.
It&#39;s funny how you co-oppers and CTI players feel so much above the rest just because you kill mindless bots and buy tanks and choppers.

It&#39;s like saying CTF is the one and only thing this game was meant for, you like the idea of that? No? That&#39;s right, everyone can decide how to play it, but please, show some respect to others styles of play.

[cain2001]

Once CR gets his ArmA copy the new generation CTI will be released.

Heatseeker, you really poiting finger at the wrong man here. If you would take time to read the post of this topic you would see what I mean. I guess i was unclear so ill say it again.


Being a OFP and ArmA dedicated fan I do everything from making maps, playing coops, cqb ctfs and help out with the ArmA online gaming community. I love making maps, I love playing Coops and CQB CTFs used to be fun maps who gave me the look of the close combat side of OFP (Run cover, run cover, nade, run, shoot, gaming style etc). I love this game so much I cant stick to one kind of gaming style. Anyone, times changed in OFP and maps like Hexenkessel and other shoebox maps.


Quote[/b] ]*shoebox maps are maps where you scrooll around the map editor with your eyes closed, you stop at a randomly selected location and place buildings all over the place. Put 2 flags in their and you got yourself a CQB map. This sort of maps are very popular in OFP and ArmA.

This new maps with all these buildings made people camp. No longer was it a true cover and run tactic game. It was find a building, camp, kill 7 people then move to next one and getting the flag? Who wants flags&#33;&#33;&#33;. This pissed me and couple of other guys off backin OFP thats why we made a little movie about it. (This can be compared to the CTI shelling from 10000000 meters away that pissed me off because that was just lame and unfair. Put a artillery tank for 15k in their instead and problem would be solved).

Anyway, I by my ArmA copy and what do i Find out? Maps in ArmA are still like in OFP. No change at all, still shoebox formation maps and Coop. I started playing Coop first week but since im a man of many aspects of this game I had to try the CTF maps. (There was a few BF C&H maps i really enjoyed). Playing those CTF maps pretty much put me to where iam typing this.


So you see Heat, Im just like you. Well Im not. Instead of sitting on a forum complaing on how lame some parts of a game is. I acually try to change it back for for new better thing. I want those lame campers gone from this game and send to play tetris for the rest of their lives.

Please let me know you dont understand

// Cain

[mrj-fin]

Once CR gets his ArmA copy the new generation CTI will be released.
I hope this happend fast becouse now I am stucked 16-hours-on every day playing OFP crCTI.

This game can attaractive large variety of player reasoining of freedom and modability.

[russin]

War = holding areas on a map witch = camping those who camp well and hold there zone will win.....

shelling is a part of War in todays game and even in yesterdays game that said

see you on the battle field and ill have fun plucking you off running in a open field while im camped on the other side of a bush http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/nener.gif

[Abbe]

ok, you guys are talking about spawnrape. Sure, it&#39;s no fun but still, in very many smaller CTF maps the only way of securing a flag is by first securing the spawn (isn&#39;t this even the whole point of CTF&#33;?). I&#39;m the first to admit I hate beeing spawnraped but that is more to do with mapdesign then a whish to acctually kill ppl in their spawn. There should be ways of getting out of spawn before beeing shot http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

If the spawn has been taken by the other team I guess we just have to figure a way of getting out retake it...(before we crash our keybords on the desk and curse so the birds drop dead from the trees...)



/Abbe

[froggyluv]

If &#39;camping&#39; means setting up a defensive position to guard one&#39;s flag I&#39;m guilty of it but I was beaten. My flag was being grabbed constantly as my team lacked any cohesion while opfor&#39;s team was operating like a well-oiled machine. So I picked a well concealed position and picked off maybe 3 of them before they came back with a great decoy and flank plan which took me down.Thats how &#39;camping&#39; is beaten, a well thought out strategy to distract or flush out the hidden soldier.

As far as &#39;spawn camping&#39;, I think it sucks but it takes the awareness of the entire team to backpeddle, working as a group to take out the transgressor.

[whisper]

Give it time, mission makers are working http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Yep, that&#39;s what I&#39;m doing. I have no doubt that pretty soon we&#39;ll have some good MP missions that will let us play the way the game is meant to be played. Namely a proper CTI. Then all I&#39;ll need to do is find some quality people to play with.
You yourself is closing around the idea only CTI is the proper way to play the game.
Time to move on. Something new can be done.
Btw Celery is 100% correct. This Holier Than Thou attitude will bring us nowhere.
ArmA scope is large enough for more than 1 or 2 playstyles.

[Heatseeker]

Heatseeker, you really poiting finger at the wrong man here. If you would take time to read the post of this topic you would see what I mean. I guess i was unclear so ill say it again.

...

This new maps with all these buildings made people camp. No longer was it a true cover and run tactic game. It was find a building, camp, kill 7 people then move to next one and getting the flag? Who wants flags&#33;&#33;&#33;

...

So you see Heat, Im just like you. Well Im not. Instead of sitting on a forum complaing on how lame some parts of a game is. I acually try to change it back for for new better thing. I want those lame campers gone from this game and send to play tetris for the rest of their lives.

Please let me know you dont understand

// Cain
You are contradicting yourself...

Cover and run, you sould run when its safe to do so, if a player takes out 7 guys from behind cover before going for a flag he is a good (or atleast smart) player. If you see 6 guys taken out in a row by someone who is holding an area from cover and you still rush you deserve to either die or play CS for the rest of your life.

The problem starts with the shitty cqb walled in maps, they limit the players movement options and remove the ability to flank.
These maps are inspired by arcade games where you bunny hop and acurately shoot on the run, that stuff just doesnt work here.

If you play proper maps you will have options to take out players using cover (call for a sniper, shell, flank, nade, etc).

You are saying that someone who efficiently uses cover should be playing tetris and you want this game to become (in your eyes only) a better thing but you cant, you cant dictate bad rules or force players to play like idiots.

[walker]

Hi all

Spawn killing and base raping is down to mission designers and fairly easy to solve with terrox&#39;s ECL templates and scripts which should port straight to ArmA from OFP.

Simple Exclusion kill zones and placing of bases and spawns inside them so spawn campers have to do 5 minutes of "You have been a naughty little boy" cut scene usually with a firing squad or ten to reduce their kill ratio.

For TKS It reduces their kill count as TKs count negative and the Bots on their own side start targeting them, which tends to freak them.

Adding 10 and 30 points to peoples kill count for a flag touch and full capture is a fairly simple matter via a script. Then the camper ends up way below the others in the rankings.

That said camping teaches people to sneak around open areas or correctly use vehicles. I saw this in the beginning in the Demo CTF, a lot of stupid running across open ground, now people have stopped stupidly running across the open ground, now people have leaned better, so the snipers are out of business. You even see the sniper rifles left in the crate because they are useless close up.

People plan more, hide their vehicles, use the truck to create road blocks to prevent sudden flag runs. BRDMs get taken out by guys with MGs who take out a tyre. People never sit in the gunner spot of a hummer for long. They now sit down in the armoured back only getting on the gun when needed.

It is what happened in reality in Iraq. First of the Hummer MGs did not have armour now they all have those sloped cupolas.

What that is is people learning and adapting.

Kind Regards Walker

[cain2001]

Quote[/b] ] The problem starts with the shitty cqb walled in maps, they limit the players movement options and remove the ability to flank.
These maps are inspired by arcade games where you bunny hop and acurately shoot on the run, that stuff just doesnt work here.

If you play proper maps you will have options to take out players using cover (call for a sniper, shell, flank, nade, etc).


This is 100% true&#33; I agree with you.



Quote[/b] ] You are saying that someone who efficiently uses cover should be playing tetris and you want this game to become (in your eyes only) a better thing but you cant, you cant dictate bad rules or force players to play like idiots.

Cover and run, you sould run when its safe to do so, if a player takes out 7 guys from behind cover before going for a flag he is a good (or atleast smart) player. If you see 6 guys taken out in a row by someone who is holding an area from cover and you still rush you deserve to either die or play CS for the rest of your life.



We must think of 2 different "Cover and Run" tactics. I belive I can say that I have a general better view of how gaming is done on the CQB maps.

By my book there are 2 sort of players.

#1 The ones who play as a team, trying to move up together giving eachother covering fire and their only goal is to score flags. To do this effective you will need to move to a object that gives you enough cover, wait 10s-30s for your team mates to do the same thing. Then you move up again. This is what I have used for 5 years in clanwars and I can say it worked very effective for #DK#. (This is what I call Run and Cover. Dont mix it up with anything else please)

#2 This is the player who dont see him as a part of the team, he belive he is a one man army and think the game is won by killing as much as possible. He find himself a very good location around the mid area of the map. He starts shooting people as they come to the middle. He kills a couple of guys by deicdes to stay instead of moving up. 4 guys stays camping and 4 of the other players moves up to take the flag. Since the other team now have 8 players at their flag, they will have no problem killing the attackers. 8 guys are now doing their counterattack only be gunned down by the 4 campers. (These are players who would do more for their team if they moved up but they choose not to because they know they will get more kills if they stay. These are the players i want to go and play tetris.


I salute all other players who choosen to play this game as a team and work for the better good.


I hope you can see that we mean the same things Heat. Just trust me on this one.

[cain2001]

BTW, Dont forget the players who turn down their graphics to see the enemies better and get more frames lol. This is a good example that you rather want more kills than to play a game with good graphics and a realistic enviorment&#33;

http://www.onlinewarfare.net/forum/gallery/files/9/1/1_Low.jpg


Normal Settings
http://www.onlinewarfare.net/forum/gallery/files/9/1/2_High.jpg

LOW SETTINGS
http://www.onlinewarfare.net/forum/gallery/files/9/1/2_Low.jpg

[whisper]

Mmmh, apart from gaining FPS, how will the low settings see more things?

[Heatseeker]

Mmmh, apart from gaining FPS, how will the low settings see more things?
That one is easy. Low lod bushes and objects are less detailed so provide less concealment.

Low resolution ground textures and objects make soldier models stand out better, etc.
In Arma the shadows and lighting will have an heavy impact on what one gamer sees and the other one doesnt.

I dont see a solution for this other than making graphic settings server enforced, wich is not a fair solution since Arma hw requirements are already very demanding...

cain2001...

I still disagree with you. Its perfectly acceptable for players to hold a position or guard an objective, if you cant take them out then its the maps fault for being poorly designed and not taking advantage of Arma&#39;s open, non linear gameplay.

In a 4 vs 4 objective based adversarial map its perfectly reasonable to have 2 players defending and 2 players assaulting.
Its not the players fault that people come up with disfunctional "sandbox", rectangular maps.

If i reach a flag and decide to "camp" it so that a teamate can take it and head back safelly i will.

On my part... end of discussion.

[whisper]

Mmmh, apart from gaining FPS, how will the low settings see more things?
That one is easy. Low lod bushes and objects are less detailed so provide less concealment.
Screens above doesn&#39;t show that. "Less detailed" can very much mean "slightly bigger", "rough edges covering more", etc..., it&#39;s completely dependant on several factors.
Very true on the shadow statement though.

[Celery]

Shadows should be everyone&#39;s own choice, you can&#39;t choose between object and vehicle shadow in ArmA anymore, so it&#39;s pretty fair. No shadows means more fps, shadows on to have a chance of locating your enemies.

[Zerg]

...that will let us play the way the game is meant to be played. Namely a proper CTI.
It&#39;s funny how you co-oppers and CTI players feel so much above the rest just because you kill mindless bots and buy tanks and choppers.
Richard Dean Anderson is hardly a representative of CTI players.

But yes I noticed this snobbery you mention in alot of co-oppers myself. Infact one example just very recently. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[Zerg]

As for the whole what is wrong with camping if it is effective and plausible thing...

Anybody that doesn`t think camping is lame has a very distorted view on the nature of PvP MP. For nearly anyone playing PvP MP games they aren`t about reinactment of Dieppe Raid nor of the Iranian Embassy Siege. They are not about playing soldier and mimicking real life millitary operations. And they are definetley not a polygon for development of millitary tactics for real life. What they are to a huge overwhelming majority of players is an entertainment, a recreation or a sport.

Now in many sport there are tactics that while don`t represent cheating are lame and unsportive. In football one of those is called a proffesional foul (intentionaly fouling an opponent in a goalscoring opportunity). Now proffesional foul isn`t cheating since the player isn`t trying to hide it, plus (since the 1980s) he will be cauntioned or a sent off for it and jet it is considered extremley lame and very unsportive. And this is on proffesional level. It is so lame it is absolutley untinkable of anybody intentionaly fouling in a pastime game of football.

It is the same with camping in PvP. It isn`t cheating but it definetly also isn`t sportive. There is definetley something wrong with exploiting the mission in such a cynical way that it kills all the fun for every other participant. Esspecialy so when it is done just so you boost your kill count which isn`t even the objective of the game (at least proffesional fouling is done for the scoreline and not for own perverse pleasure). And finally it isn`t even hard. It takes no special skills. Any moron can find a good camping spot and proceed to rack up the kills killing all the fun for every other player. Its just that mayority of us aren`t assholes and like to play in accordance to the spirit as well as the rules of the game.

[[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-]

Zerg, your words make me a fan of your wisdom. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif

GAME ON&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif

[froggyluv]

I&#39;m an old OFP player/fan but new to MP gaming in with Arma(demo) and I&#39;m not really sure what constitutes &#39;camping.&#39;

Obviously I understand "spawnkilling" but as regards to the flag. When I see multiple enemies on radar close to my HQ, is it wrong to set up position on the flag?

[Rofflecopter]

I&#39;m an old OFP player/fan but new to MP gaming in with Arma(demo) and I&#39;m not really sure what constitutes &#39;camping.&#39;

Obviously I understand "spawnkilling" but as regards to the flag. When I see multiple enemies on radar close to my HQ, is it wrong to set up position on the flag?
Camping your own HQ is not camping it&#39;s defending.

It&#39;s a real pain when everytime you spawn at your main base, it&#39;s instant death. I had this happen the other day when on a CTI clan server, the clan was just sat wiping you out everytime you spawned you couldn&#39;t even get to cover.

[Heatseeker]

As for the whole what is wrong with camping if it is effective and plausible thing...

Anybody that doesn`t think camping is lame has a very distorted view on the nature of PvP MP. For nearly anyone playing PvP MP games they aren`t about reinactment of Dieppe Raid nor of the Iranian Embassy Siege. They are not about playing soldier and mimicking real life millitary operations. And they are definetley not a polygon for development of millitary tactics for real life. What they are to a huge overwhelming majority of players is an entertainment, a recreation or a sport.

Now in many sport there are tactics that while don`t represent cheating are lame and unsportive. In football one of those is called a proffesional foul (intentionaly fouling an opponent in a goalscoring opportunity). Now proffesional foul isn`t cheating since the player isn`t trying to hide it, plus (since the 1980s) he will be cauntioned or a sent off for it and jet it is considered extremley lame and very unsportive. And this is on proffesional level. It is so lame it is absolutley untinkable of anybody intentionaly fouling in a pastime game of football.

It is the same with camping in PvP. It isn`t cheating but it definetly also isn`t sportive. There is definetley something wrong with exploiting the mission in such a cynical way that it kills all the fun for every other participant. Esspecialy so when it is done just so you boost your kill count which isn`t even the objective of the game (at least proffesional fouling is done for the scoreline and not for own perverse pleasure). And finally it isn`t even hard. It takes no special skills. Any moron can find a good camping spot and proceed to rack up the kills killing all the fun for every other player. Its just that mayority of us aren`t assholes and like to play in accordance to the spirit as well as the rules of the game.
Ok, there we go...

There is no camping in Arma/OPF. There is the turkey shooter and the turkey.

Sometimes you are one, sometimes the other. If you end up being the turkey too often you have to re-evaluate your play style (adapt) or create better maps, if you cant do that you resort to the nonsense that ended up in this degrading thread.
Did you notice that there are smoke grenades in Arma/OPF? Ever thought about using them instead of filling up with G36 mags?

These idiotic rules and behaviours are why many people (usually ones who dont have the patience anymore) switch to coop or close themselves with a regular group (wich is unfortunate and hurts the mp gaming comunity).

Look at these embarassing arguments:

"Its just that mayority of us aren`t assholes and like to play in accordance to the spirit as well as the rules of the game."

You see yourself highly enough to have the right to establish THE game rules? And anyone who doesnt abide by your "rules" is a camping asshole...

Arma is not a soccer game, its a slower paced FPS with considerable realistic and tactical gameplay, AKA the thinking mans shooter.
Think about that... and think about the poor image that you give about the adversarial Arma players out there too.

[Celery]

Arma is not a soccer game, its a slower paced FPS with considerable realistic and tactical gameplay, AKA the thinking mans shooter.
I think you are forgetting that the PvP community does not play for the higher goals of getting the ultimate military sim experience or whatever the more mature co-oppers get out of their games. They want a fun and fair challenge that measures their individual and team skills against another team, the thrill of &#39;who is better&#39;. Before you say "go play CS or soccer" or similar, the ArmA PvP community wants to have fun in a realistic setting, that&#39;s why they play it.


These idiotic rules and behaviours are why many people (usually ones who dont have the patience anymore) switch to coop or close themselves with a regular group (wich is unfortunate and hurts the mp gaming comunity).
You got a source for that, or is it just a "funny fact" to boost your cause?


You see yourself highly enough to have the right to establish THE game rules? And anyone who doesnt abide by your "rules" is a camping asshole...
Zerg is but a messenger, what he said are things that every competitive player knows deep down. I could mirror this to you, do you see yourself so holier than others that you know what is accepted in a fair match better than the ones who play CTF full time?


Did you notice that there are smoke grenades in Arma/OPF? Ever thought about using them instead of filling up with G36 mags?
You are welcome to come and play a CTF and throw smokes around and frolic in your tactical screen, I&#39;m sure your (this time human) enemies will appreciate your smart move and play along.


Think about that... and think about the poor image that you give about the adversarial Arma players out there too.
Think about what kind of image you yourself are giving, this is a thread mainly for CTF players to discuss and before you know there are some co-oppers giving advice how you play CTF in a "military sim".

[Heatseeker]

The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I&#39;ve said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it&#39;s a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.
You confuse me http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif .

[Celery]

The game modes are totally irrelevant. Like I&#39;ve said before, Armed Assault is what it is and it&#39;s a foundation for different game modes, not the other way around. If you want a non-realistic game mode with unrealistic gameplay, there are lots of games for that. ArmA is the pioneer of its genre and we should adapt to it.
You confuse me http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif .
What is the confusion? I don&#39;t want drastic changes in the game just to please CTF noobs.

Ps. With that quote from another topic you oh so skilfully dodged my actual reply to you in this thread.

[richard_dean_anderson]

...that will let us play the way the game is meant to be played. Namely a proper CTI.
It&#39;s funny how you co-oppers and CTI players feel so much above the rest just because you kill mindless bots and buy tanks and choppers.
Richard Dean Anderson is hardly a representative of CTI players.

But yes I noticed this snobbery you mention in alot of co-oppers myself. Infact one example just very recently. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif
Actually, I don&#39;t enjoy killing mindless bots. I&#39;d much rather kill humans. But, if I wanted to play a game where I&#39;m restricted to a small portion of the map, and don&#39;t have to worry much about dying since I can repeatedly respawn and get right back in the game, I&#39;d seriously play battlefield 2. BF2 does that kind of game so much better than OFP/Arma, hands down.

[russin]

those mindless BOTS will kick your ass in ArmA http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

ArmA anything is possable can&#39;t be compared to BF2 at all ArmA is 100 times better in any regard to BF2 even in those shoe box maps http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

[Zerg]

Did you notice that there are smoke grenades in Arma/OPF? Ever thought about using them instead of filling up with G36 mags?

Ah yes the mighty smoke grenades. They certainly do come in handy when you want your beach party to get that cheery psychedelic flavor, but I stil much prefer to pack a Carl Gustav instead just in case I happen to cross paths with the odd T-80 or five.

But not to say I am not open minded, I would be most interested in learning of ways to dispose of a tank with smoke grenades.




Its just that mayority of us aren`t assholes and like to play in accordance to the spirit as well as the rules of the game.

You see yourself highly enough to have the right to establish THE game rules? And anyone who doesnt abide by your "rules" is a camping asshole...

Quite the opposite. If you cared to read what I acctually wrote instead of raging against constructs of your imagination you would see I acctually implied that camping isn`t against the rules of the game, but is against the spirit of the game. Of course reading what I acctually write would require you get off your tacticaly sound high horse and that might be too much to ask of you.

And yes I think little of people that play unsportive and make little secret of it both in game and outside of it.


Think about that... and think about the poor image that you give about the adversarial Arma players out there too.

Think about not patronising people you know next to nothing about. It does little to dispend with the snobbish image.


Sometimes you are one, sometimes the other. If you end up being the turkey too often you have to re-evaluate your play style (adapt) or create better maps, if you cant do that you resort to the nonsense that ended up in this degrading thread.

Since you find it appropriate to throw tactical advice left and right giving as detailed instructions as the loadouts setup and in not a hugely respectful manner, then proceed to dispel considerations of other players as stupid, idiotic or emberassing I would be interested in hearing the reason for your confidence. I mean the way you talk you must have played at least several dozen PvP MP matches right? Probably also won a few competitions, yes? And spent countless hours measuring skill in public games against other players?

Anybody that ambushes my ride on the road approaching the town will have my compliments. Anybody that picks me off from a distance with a sniper rifle from the outskirts of the town after waiting calmly for dozens of minutes will have my congratulations. Anybody that sets up his AIs to have me caught in fire from all sides the moment I enter a town will have my admiration. But anybody that sets himself up in a building with a tiny window then proceeds to set himself in position from which he can see absolutley nothing but the town flag and a few metres surronding it then wait for the opposition knowing they must come to it and stand next to it for 20 seconds in order to take the town is a camper, is playing unsportive and is exploiting the limitation of the mission to simulate town control which is a fairly abstract term in itself better. And no it is not a case of a poor mission making, any other abstraction is going to be even more exploitable.

[Frantic]

Here my 2cents to that Bad Company thing.

I love the WarOnCampers movie, still have it on my harddrive. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

I hated the campers too in the past in my early OFP days.

But now i just respect them, cause i never managed to lay on my belly 30mins without moving...its just too boring for me.
I only did the job of the flagcamper in league matches on maps i dont like and i wasnt even good in it.

Cain i can just tell you that your not alone, there are enough knights out there who are trying to give the constant campers the most hard time they can have.

I know the maps i created till now are mainly CQB style and its funny to see all the heads peaking out of corners, but its even more fun to shoot this heads or throw a nade at them.
Its always nice to shoot a camper...so im not angry on them, cause they are easy targets, not moving at all. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif


Only one more thing about this strange opinion with the respawn protection.
I was the mapmaker of TNT at the end and i have removed those nonsense prison scripts at the maps, cause i always havent understood why the mapmakers havent spend more time to create another way of respawn protection, like to use the terrain or objects.
The only thing you need to have a nice working respawn protection is a no entry area and no chance for the enemy to see at ur spawn and ammo crates.

I did that at all my CTF maps now too and till now i just see every day some peeps who are screaming: "u shot me at respawn&#33;" and then i always have to explain them that the signs 20meter away from their spawn are markers to show the others the beginning of the no entry area and that your allowed to shoot everyone you see.
I think thats a better way instead of those prison scripts, cause we wanna stay at realism or? hehe

but back on topic:
camping was a part of OFP and it is one of ArmA, we cant change that, i have to admit that i camp too from time to time when i reach a nice spot.
I cant understand peeps playing CTF when they never try to take a flag.
To grab a flag and trying to bring it home is the most thrilling thing u can get in online gaming...ok its better in a clan war instead of public, but its still nice to even make a flag run in a public game.
Those campers who just stay at one point are just useful for covering one certain area, but they never will decide a round.
The headless chickens are the pepper in the soup.
A camper will shoot the chicken once or even twice but if hes spotted once his time has come to die.

The most funny campers are the belly boys on Hexenkessel, i have to admit that i sometimes friendly kill those campers if i see them laying all the time at one spot...i know its not nice, but i always say: SORRY&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

Ej Cain im looking forward to a new nice WarOnCampers movie&#33;
Fast path shooters are enough left of OFP in ArmA&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[whisper]

Frantic is spot on.
Concentrate on objectives, and you&#39;ll have a delightful game. I really, really don&#39;t mind a camper getting me few times, if it&#39;s all that he does 1) he doesn&#39;t really stop me from reaching my goal in the end, 2) he doesn&#39;t bring anything to his team.
He may well be at the top of the kill list, that doesn&#39;t mean he helped in any way.
After that, it&#39;s all about game design. If it is done nicely, the objectives shouldn&#39;t be "campable" ad vitam eternam. Ie spawn protected by physical features, houses, etc..., and objectives with more or less protected paths.

[[-DST-] HIGHLANDER]

emm, i hate campers myself,always have always will, but in ARMA the campers seem to be like ai bots, you know who you are , i.e example last night a camper on a tower in his own spawn killed me 3 times in a row,soon i figured out where he was, he had no where to run to, he got killed, lol, what he do again, he go back on tower, and i killed him again&#33; , its this kind of stupid players, i cant understand why they play ARMA ctf??, i mean camping in spawn with a sniper rifle, aint gonna get you any flags is it, personnlay , i would rather get killed my a simmilar styler of player to me, i.e get killed when all out attacking flag, than some noob corner/leaning on a building all game, thats not skill, is it?, its more skillfull to kill an oponnet when both are attacking each others flag in open see each other same time, see who wins the dual? am i right? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

[S.O.S]

Ofcourse ill spare normal campers (unless they turn out to be pro campers)
LMFAO


HIGHLANDER @<hidden> Feb. 22 2007,17:14)]he got killed, lol, what he do again, he go back on tower, and i killed him again&#33; , its this kind of stupid players, i cant understand why they play ARMA ctf??, i mean camping in spawn with a sniper rifle, aint gonna get you any flags is it, ...
Because they just play for fun, he wouldnt play it if it would be no fun. Some of the old veterans seem to have forgotten this.

[frelli]

Mind post you "War on campers" video?

[Evan110185]

Once I went camping up north and then some coyotes and bears roamed around our tent all night. And they came up very close to our camp site. The 3 girls i went with got pretty scared.


Just thought id share...
{MOD}Audi_A4

[Pathetic_Berserker]

Campers rely on poor mission design, or the success of the mission requires it (ie those few seconds required to hold a base in CTI)

[Infam0us]

Imho there is nothing wrong with camping. Its a tactic that can be used like any other. I do disagree with Spawn Campers though, as people who are shot, or not given a fair chance to get out of spawn might aswell not play the game. However, if a player is stupid enough to camp in the same place after being killed then he deserved to die. But does waiting behind some bushes for a enemy count as camping? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[sirex]

this is dumb on all kinds of levels. - this is a realistic game, real solders camp when needed, and for good reason.

deal with it.

[cain2001]

this is dumb on all kinds of levels. - this is a realistic game, real solders camp when needed, and for good reason.

deal with it.
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/welcome.gif To this Thread guys&#33;

Dont let the door hit you on the way out&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

[frelli]

Mind post you "War on campers" video?
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif Please?

[sirex]

..has to be said though, in every game i&#39;ve played as soon as anyone stops running head long into the other team in a mindless fashion and sets up any type of defence someone pulls out the camper card.

its just a tactic, obviously not one that mr.rambo would use, but thats why mr.rambo would get shot outside of hollywood.

i mean, if you know someone is camping an alley and everytime you cross it they shoot you, dont cross it. They only camp cos some sucker keeps making it viable.

[Celery]

..has to be said though, in every game i&#39;ve played as soon as anyone stops running head long into the other team in a mindless fashion and sets up any type of defence someone pulls out the camper card.

its just a tactic, obviously not one that mr.rambo would use, but thats why mr.rambo would get shot outside of hollywood.

i mean, if you know someone is camping an alley and everytime you cross it they shoot you, dont cross it. They only camp cos some sucker keeps making it viable.
The camping we are talking about in this thread is not the number two option of "hey let&#39;s sprint to the flag thru the main road with no cover&#33;". This Camping we talk about is purely self gratified frag count boosting with no contribution to the objectives of the game. Does the verb &#39;camp&#39; somehow automatically wind single players into a rage? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

And just so you know, J. Rambo was very tactical in the movies and always tried to avoid and surprise the enemy. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Zerg]

Anybody that disses Rambo didn`t read First Blood. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[richard_dean_anderson]

Doesn&#39;t killing a lot of people contribute to the objective of a CTF mission?

[sirex]

apparently not.

[svendejong]

Im kinda surprised to find this topic on the ARMA /OFP forums.
People complaining about being camped during games on the Zeus server and before that good oll SToners server were told to go play CS and thats exactly what I feel like saying here.
camping=making smart use of concealment and cover, making it an acceptable and even smart thing to do in a tactical, slow paced game.

[Celery]

Hey guys, read the entire topic, see what it&#39;s about and then post your comments please. Lots of points made about what kind of camping these people want to get rid of, so you&#39;re just making dummies out of yourselves by reading the name of the topic and saying "camping is what we do in the army&#33;" and similar nonsense.

[sirex]

spawn camping pisses me off, everything else is fair play. CTF or not.

[frelli]

Hey guys, read the entire topic, see what it&#39;s about and then post your comments please. Lots of points made about what kind of camping these people want to get rid of, so you&#39;re just making dummies out of yourselves by reading the name of the topic and saying "camping is what we do in the army&#33;" and similar nonsense.
I agree. I would still think it was nice if somone who got the "war on campers" video can reupload it somewhere so I can download it. Would be very nice, thanks http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif.

[Call911]

I think camping is part of the game. It&#39;s a war simulator, you are supposed to hide and kill other people. What&#39;s with all of the camping hate?

[Zerg]

I think hating is part of the game. It`s a war simulator, you are supposed to hate people in war, esspecialy those trying to kill you. What`s with all this love thy camper campaign?

[sixer]

"the war HAS just begun" Thats how you say it.