Logical South Sahrani Kits

[DUX0726]

I am not an add-on maker but I do have a request that I would like to humbly submit to those of you that might be interested. ArmA takes place in what for all intensive purposes is a 3rd world country. Most 3rd world countries that have organized militaries use primarily surplus equipment, especially for their regular troops. I personally think that the South Sahrani troops are too well equipped and would love to see a new version of them:


1.) wearing more appropriate camouflage, (the 6-color desert seems out of place in a country that is 2/3rds lush)

2.) Steel Pot helmets, (even in the country of Mexico they still issue steel-pots instead of Kevlar, with parade dress being the exception; they use fake Kevlar shells during parades, etc.)

3.) and outdated body-armor or none at all (I seriously doubt that they would be able to afford interceptor body armor for all of their troops. Surplus German II-A flak-jackets with a modified cover seems more appropriate to their economic situation and tropical location)


Please let me know what you think if you are interested. I would love to hear some logistical ideas about what they might look like.

[low light]

I agree that should be the case... BUT:

South Sahrani is a an oil rich nation similar to possibly to Saudi Arabia and therefore possibly has a lot of money to spend on defence. It is also a monarchy, again like Saudi Arabia, which spends money on defence and procures elite equipment for a personal/elite guard for the monarch. So in this case the load-outs of the Southern military seems feasible.

With regard to the camouflage, I would hazard a guess and say that the South would probably be more interested in protecting itself than to ever think about invading the North, therefore it is also feasible that the south would opt for the 6 colour desert variant, since that would be their area of operation (the south being predominantly desert or arid climate).

I would hope that the south would have some troops in suitable camouflage to operate in the north, but these would be for troops such as a Special operations force, used to enter the North to undertake clandestine operations. Thinking about this though, the South would probably have spies operating in the North, just as the north would ave spies in the south, to co-ordinate resistance or insurgency operations, these people would be dressed like civilians.

I personally think that the only real need for new kit would be for the North to have some desert/arid climate camouflage and the south to have some temperate camouflage (for specialist operations).
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

[DUX0726]

Perhaps I am being a little stingy in my suspension of disbelief for the topography of the game, but the reason that I think that South Sahrani would not have such nice equipment is because it is such a small country. I only counted 6 oil wells. (Not a great deal of wealth for a whole country to draw upon) It seems to me that the economy of South Sahrani is primarily based upon tourism, as indicated by the large bungalow/hotel spread on the western side of the territory. Also, it looked to me as if 2/3rds of South Sahrani was dominated by grass and trees interspersed with more rocky terrain. Only the bottom ~1/3rd of the landscape actually contains sand as its defining characteristic.

Judging by the amount of territory and size of most of the cities, and coupled with what I believe to be a tourist economy, only slightly augmented by small oil deposits; I still would tend to think that the defense budget for the country would be quite small and probably only support a military force of less than 600 troops all totaled. I could see the Royal Guards being well equipped, but in a country that has so few resources and troops and equipment; I just can’t see the average grunt being all that well off. Olive Drab uniforms, Steel Pot helmets, little to no body armor, and old FN-FAL or G-3 weapons instead of current U.S. issue M-16’s would be the order of the day in my estimation.

I do like your idea about special operations units and spies. I think that South Sahrani would indeed have a cadre of those types of specialists, and plain-clothes would certianly be required for such operations, by and large.

[low light]

I have a feeling that this issue would get too complicated if we discussed it in minute detail, no one has a CIA factfile on Sahrani (though there will no doubt be one made, there was one for Tonal and that proved very useful for mission making, in my books anyway). We don't know the economic details of the country to work out what they can and can't afford.

I would just wait and see what the addon community comes up with. There are already a smattering of NATO re-skins for the US force. Give it enough time and the South Sahrani military will be turned into a resistance force, and your wishes will probably be met. If not you could always edit your missions by putting bits and pieces together to create your ideal 'world'. Check out OFPEC (http://www.ofpec.com) for advice on editing.
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

[DUX0726]

Agreed, and a very fair assessment I think. My previous views were based upon the idea of the South Sahrani forces being an Army with one strategic purpose: To hold-up any Northern Sahrani invasion at the choke-point of Corazol for 12 to 24 hours so that government papers could be shredded and burned, the ruling family could be evacuated from the country, and so that limited guerilla actions could be set-up until the arrival of U.N. assistance. A scenario very much in accordance with what Kuwait did after suffering invasion by Iraq in 1990, albeit on a much more “low-rent” scale.

[badlymad]

Personally, seeing how the U.S is responsible for training S. Sahrani forces, i could see the army generally being equipped with American hand me downs. PASGT helmets without covers, generic body armor instead of Interceptors, and so on. I don't really mind M16A2s, since the U.S is beginning to outmode them, and they are in the arsenals of many western-aligned developing nations.

In regards to camoflauge, an olive drab or tan uniform might fit, or even a neutral scheme like lizard stripe or DPM.

[DUX0726]

Well stated. I think you have some very logical ideas there. I'm not going to lie though, I love the Steel-Pots more than the Kevlar helmets. To me, they just have more kitch factor, and I won't deny being a fan of certain cliches.

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Well, the Interceptor vest really isn't all that expensive, its the SAPI plates that run the cost up. The full set minus any shoulder or tigh pieces is somewhere around $1,440. The 2 plates are just under $900 and the vest itself is $400something. The only reason I know this is because my vest was stolen last March and I had to foot the bill.

M16A2s are around $6-700 new and for used you can assume at the very least a 10% depreciation value.

I dunno, I can see both arguments for having a good loadout and a cheap but functional loadout.

[low light]

I personnaly would have prefered a South Sahrani military in the way you have described DUX0726. It would have made the south seem a little bit more raggedy (I think your word kitch is much better) and not so polished as it looks; and in need of help from the US forces. Though I feel the elite guard should have the equipment they have now.

I'm sure you'll get your wish of 'Steel-pot' helmets when some one get round to making one or once the tools are released.

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

[Ceriy]

The South Sahrani doesn't have a huge army, so they could afford to have good equipment for their troops.

[DUX0726]

Please forgive the crude nature of my sketch but this is an approximation of what I had in mind. (based upon my original thoughts and some really great suggestions so far)

-IMAGE TAKEN DOWN BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN SUPERCEDED BY A MORE ADVANCED DRAFT-

[Clavicula_nox4817]

You know, that's not a bad concept at all. Yeah, I think the older style flak jackets work out really well, but would it be better for the vest to match the OD of the uniform or would you want it to stay in that woodland pattern?

[DUX0726]

My thoughts on that are that they were just given the old PASGT vests by the U.S. so it's a mish-mash of their old equiptment and their new "hand me downs."


...and thanks, I'm glad you dig it!

[mickuzy]

fiji has a pretty weak economy, not sure if it is 3rd world or 1st world but still it has kevlar helmets
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6160649.stm

[Clavicula_nox4817]

fiji has a pretty weak economy, not sure if it is 3rd world or 1st world but still it has kevlar helmets
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6160649.stm
Well, 1st world, 2nd world, and 3rd world are old Cold War definitions and are outdated. 1st World was the US and USSR, 2nd world was basically NATO and Warsaw Pact countries, and third world was like the big Misc assortment. Right now, it really doesn't mean what it originally was intended to mean. Sorry for OT

[MAA3057]

DUX, everytime I got to Mexico, they are either wearing OD tops or Kevlars. Never seen them wearing steel pots.

[DUX0726]

I have to admit I'm probably not as up to date on the Mexican kit as I should be but, as I stated earlier, the "Steel Pot" idea really is more of a personal preference. I just don't like the "Fritz"; it looks to "wehrmacht" for my tastes. Although I usually keep that to myself because I know it's a big "no-no" to make that affiliation in the U.S. military. Ultimately my desire to see the South Sahrani in them is mostly to help "set them aside" from the modern U.S. gear. I know they are not common anymore but some armies still use them. Why not the South Sahrani, IMHO.

BTW, the knee-pads that I have on him are the soft "soccer player" variety, dyed Israeli O.D. green. (Another cost-cutting element of the defense budget in my mind) All the soldiers would look like this except for prehaps the snipers, in that case i would just substitute the Steel-Pot with an O.D. knit cap.

Anyone else have a different take on it?

[MAA3057]

The way I see it is that the US donated their surplus to the South Sahaiahisnas Army just like they have the Iraqis in RL. I like it the way it is, but I do understand your point of view completely.

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Yeah, I understand wanting to set them apart. Right now the RACS are basically US Soldiers in a slightly different colored Gulf War era uniform. I like your concept drawing.

[DUX0726]

I'm not much of an artist. I'd really dig seeing someone improve upon it and add their own touches: really get creative and explain every change with a back-story. I think it would be fun.

[olemissrebel]

the drawing is understandable, but remember, that type of flak jacket had replaceable covers, so it wouldnt be that unlikely to have an OD cover on it.

[low light]

I'm not much of an artist. I'd really dig seeing someone improve upon it and add their own touches: really get creative and explain every change with a back-story. I think it would be fun.
I think a Back story and a little bit more information about the state of South Sahrani would be very helpful. I am trying to learn how to make missions and I am finding that the biggest problem for creativity is not having a defined parameters about what makes up the State of Sahrani. As I mentioned before a CIA fact file type document, much like the Tonal one, would be of great help to mission makers. I have made many more (rather crappy, but playable) missions for Tonal than any other MOD Island.

Great Concept drawing Dux. It looks almost 1960's Viewtnam-esque. I think you should take precedence and do a back story of your own and see if it sticks. It might even inspire someone to turn your concept into (virtual)-reality.

Regarding the Germanification of US uniforms: Your impression is shared by many. Here is an extract from a site called Slate.com (http://www.slate.com/id/2106359/), where there is a very good point put across (not a technical site but interesting to see this view point):


Quote[/b] ]"…The use of gray as the dominant color of the new uniforms [ACU: UCP] completes the Germanification of US combat outfits. Coupled with the evolution of the Kevlar helmet to look surpassingly Wehrmacht-like, the new units look sehr deutsch, nicht wahr?

Once upon a time (up to 1900, actually), the Germans wore colorful uniforms like everybody else. Prussian Blue. It was the adoption of khaki by British troops in the Boer War (those scarlet tunics were just too easy a mark for Boer riflemen) that persuaded the German general staff to adopt the Feldgrau, Field Gray. As the US Army has finally discovered, greenish gray is the best all-around-color-in-most-environments-to-be-less-visible. The Germans wore feldgrau during the great offensive of August 1914, even using it to cover up those extremely silly pickelstube helmets that sat on their heads. [That the French won the Battle of the Marne wearing red caps and red trousers seems nothing short of astonishining.] By 1915, the Germans started wearing the steel helmets we usually associate with World War II. The design of those helmets afforded better protection against head and neck wounds than did the helmets adopted by the French (not too bad) and the British (terrible). The poor Russians wore no helmets at all.

Anyway, the Germans never gave up the feldgrau, even post-1945. They were quick to adopt the beret as standard issue heqadgear, though, and the ensuing look was very Euro/NATO. And Euro/NATO, if I may say, is exactly the way I would describe the new US Army look. Kinda ironic, given Iraq and all, but there you are."
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

[Col. Faulkner]

post deleted

[DUX0726]

That's very encouraging and nice of you Low-Light, but truth-be-told, I am really more interested in a group project sort of approach to this. (if possible) We shall see though. Thanks.

[Jahve]

Iraqis are given 6color, why not Sahrani?

[DUX0726]

My reason for thinking that the 6-color is not the most logical choice--as stated previously--is because roughly 2/3rds of South Sahrani is not desert; it's green and rocky. So I felt that it would be more realistic for the government of South Sahrani to choose a uniform color more in accordance with the majority of their territory; that being a more greenish color, or in my preference: Israeli O.D.

[DUX0726]

http://myspace-381.vo.llnwd.net/01560/18/38/1560588381_l.jpg

Here is an update based upon some good suggestions. The PASGT vest cover has been changed to coyote brown. The boots are the sand color of Gulf War surplus boots. And of course the M16A2 is new. All of these things were gifts from the U.S. in my mind. The rest is leftover O.D. kit. A mish-mash indeed.

[KiwisDoFly]

Personally we have way, way too many troops that look the same - helmets, boots, backpacks, etc - even colours!

Like I said in the GD thread, why don't you take off the helmet and give them submachine-guns (like MP5). Make them more into a cross between police force and military.

Obviously not completely civilian-looking, but perhaps no headgear at all for some of them, and no backpacks for others, etc.

[DUX0726]

An interesting take on it. In a way, I really like that idea, but I would like to hear what others had to add before making a change. Thanks for the input.

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Kiwisdofly has a point, and that would make themless of a professional force and more of a militia, which is basically how I envision them.

Instead of no headgear, why not the berets the especas used with a color change? That would give them that almost pseudo-elite imagery while at the same time maintaining a low quality selection of equipment.

Why not sub-machine guns or carbines for the regular troops, and assault rifles like the FN-FAL or G3 to act as the light support troops and maybe an RPD or something for the epitome of their suppresion capabilities?

[KiwisDoFly]

Yeah, I mean obviously the Sahrani king is on the "opressive" side of things, so it's logical for him to place militia-type units in cities to maintain order and peace, and keep better equipped units somewhere close to himself - and these units would serve as a reaction force.

[DUX0726]

OK, you guys have really got some great ideas here. It’s really getting my juices flowing. I’m really glad you guys are digging this ideological progression.

So, lets just assume that the Kingdom of South Sahrani is a fairly poor Monarchy; with Tourism, Oil, and limited Textile and Wine production as the backbone of its economy. The Democratic Republic of Sahrani was once a functioning Democracy but after it’s Colombo Tantalite mines petered-out, the economy was left in shambles and a Marxist Dictator—backed by Venezuela—was able to seize power and that is why the U.S. began to hold training exercises in South Sahrani so that they could have an excuse to beef up the Kingdoms Defense budget in the form of payment for allowing U.S. Troop exercises in the territory.

The South Sahrani Armed Forces are basically just a Para-military group whose sole function up to this point was to act as a police force and personal body guard for the Royal Family. Their equipment is, on average, at least 20 to 25 years old with the exception of new, “hand-me-down,” Desert Boots, PASGT Body Armor in coyote brown covers, and a selection of surplus M-16A2’s. Their strategy is shifting rapidly to one of National Defense in the form of “stop-gap defense” centered on Corozol in the event of Northern Sahrani invasion. The basic force is broken down as follows:


(650 Total Troops)

-550 Regular Army and Military Police personnel

-150 Royal Elite Guardsmen

-14 Surplus M113 Armored Troop Carriers

-5 Defender 500 “Little Bird” Helicopters

-28 2.5 Ton Trucks

-30 UAZ-style Trucks



(The average South Sahrani “Grunt” is equipped with)

-2 sets of Israeli O.D. Green BDU’s (including socks and undergarments)

-1 Surplus PASGT flack-jacket with coyote brown cover

-1 U.S. G.I. style Steel-Pot helmet, liner, and O.D. cover

-1 A.L.I.C.E. system combat rigging with “fanny pack” and old style U.S. plastic canteen

-1 pair of Desert Tan Combat Boots

-1 pair of old Goggles

-1 M-16A2 w/7 30rd clips of ammunition

-2 Lemon type High Explosive Hand Grenades

-1 Survival Knife

-1 O.D. Green Military-style Flashlight


When on Military Police duty—a duty that all South Sahrani Grunts draw upon a rotating basis—they will trade the Steel-Pot in for an O.D. Green cap that says “M.P.” on the front.

Specialized troops such as Snipers Marksmen, Machine-gunners, Engineers, and AT/AA Soldiers look the same with minor modification and primary weapons differences. See below:


-Sniper – Rugar 710 Rifle w/scope, .45 Automatic Pistol, no helmet: O.D. knit cap

-Machine-gunners – M-163, 1 Lemon-type High Explosive Grenades

-Engineers – Same as “Grunts” but with the addition of 3 mines

-AT/AA – Same as “Grunts” but with the addition of their respective tubed-weapon (U.S. Origin)

-Officers- Same as "Grunt" but with an additional .45 Pistol and wearing a Berret instead of a Helmet or Cap.


All Vehicles are painted O.D. Green with the Blue and White South Sahrani strip painted on it.


[All of the above is my mental picture of the state of the Kingdom of South Sahrani’s Army at this point in time. Please continue to help shape this world]








P.S. I was thinking that the Royal Elite Guardsmen should wear something more flamboyant and dress-oriented than the usual fatigues. Perhaps a combination of ceremonial dress and combat gear. A thought for later at the very least.

[DUX0726]

http://a755.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/22/l_628a9e30825468fd9fa17a037b2a0f1a.jpg

(Consider this a little boundry test based upon my post script from the last message I left.)

South Sahrani Royal Elite Guardsman

Ok, don't freak-out just yet. I know it's a pretty bold stroke, but take it in and see if you can refine it.

[KiwisDoFly]

YES http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

In a way, you doomed us - this must happen. We cannot live our lives without making that model come true. It is now our duty to make this - any way possible.

I do have one suggestion though: can add a pompous feather onto the hat? That would just make it perfect.

[Col. Faulkner]

All very interesting, but why give the regular infantrymen a
submachine gun? Why not an obsolescent battle rifle? Are
there any infantry forces in the world that are armed only
with SMGs? From your description I envisage something like
this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/whisky01/sahrani2.jpg) (adding a PASGT vest):

[Col. Faulkner]

I do have one suggestion though: can add a pompous feather onto the hat?
...and tights? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

[KiwisDoFly]

Oh man, now you are putting ideas into my head!
Actually, I've just noticed - you didn't give them pupils in that drawing. I think, for sanity reasons, we should add that for the final model.

[DUX0726]

Refresh your pages. I put the feather in his cap. Made the colors more "Royal" as well.

And yes, Col. Faulkner, I am drawing upon my fondest memories of the past as a starting point for these units. The good-ol American "Yank" soldier of WWII for the South Sahrani Grunt, and the French Forigen Legion mixed with an element of "Toy Soldier" for the Royal Guards; updated with more "modern-day" equipment of course.

[Col. Faulkner]

I would also like to mention that the Heckler and Koch
MP5 is an unlikely choice for a "fairly poor" army. The
MP5 is quite expensive - witness the irony of the West
German Bundeswehr being unable to afford them and
using the Uzi instead.

Someone also suggested the RPD as a machine gun. That
isn't very likely either as it fires the same ammo as the AK47
(unless the riflemen use the AK47 too). I'd suggest the good
old 7.62mm NATO FN MAG, or the M60.

[KiwisDoFly]

Actually, can you make the feather a bit bigger? Oh, and please add epaulettes to his shoulders. Thats what he was missing.

[DUX0726]

I'll do more work on these tomorrow. I must retire for now. Thank you so much for the interest and suggestions. Keep them coming and I'll make changes in a few hours. Thanks again.

[Col. Faulkner]

I see where you're coming from with the "Royal Guard"
outfit. If it was me, though, I'd just make them wear
some kind of camouflage uniform (starched and pressed
with lots of "insignia" and well different from the regular
army) with the kepi. If you start to suspect that the
kepi looks too "French" then you might want to think
of some kind of side cap (for example, similar to the
Spanish Foreign Legion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Legionario.JPG) )

Anyway, I'll shut up now, it's your project. I hope something
ultimately comes of it in the game.

[BlackScorpion]

Hmmm... MP-5 and... 7 mags? As said, M-16 or something, propably with less mags (depends... extra ammo, or full ammo load, when going to duty?). Flashbang? OK... although I think couple of smoke shells ought to be issued. I think the soldier ought to have more than 1 set of clothing. Or do they run around naked when washing their BDUs? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif Also, to make a complete set, down to every minor detail, you're missing something... casual. Like... working "uniform" (some even older stuff, like Herringbone twill suits?) and, well, underwear. Socks, boxers, T-shirts, etc.

The "Royal Sahrani guard" looks nice. I hope, as in The Foreign Legion, the kepi, should you decide to keep it, varies in color according to rank (they have separate officers too, don't they?). Black, red or blue for officers and white for "grunts".

Just my ideas. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[Col. Faulkner]

Flashbang? OK... although I think couple of smoke shells ought to be issued.
Yes, I'd agree with this. A more realistic fighting load would
be two APers grenades and one WP/smoke (and some link
- ie. a length of ammo belt - for the squad/section's MG, if
you want to get that "detailed").


And please could we not have M16s? If it has to be 5.56mm
what about the steyr AUG or the FNC (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as24-e.htm) or the IMBEL (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as84-e.htm)

[mickuzy]

yeah an aug would look sweet

[CanadianTerror]

An Aug would be like me saying a C7 or C8 just because we use them.

It doesnt fit.

[DUX0726]

Ok, great ideas all-around, I’ll try to address each participant individually so bear with me.

Col. Faulkner – Since the South Sahrani are being propped-up—in a manner of speaking—by the U.S. Marines, then I think that M-16’s are going to just be a fact of life on Sahrani. I do think that I should pull back from the “sub-machinegun” idea based upon your very logical observations. So, it’s back to the M-16 all-round I think. Also, since I will be doing these units myself—and I have never done that before—if I can’t convince some experienced MOD folks to come on board for this project; I don’t think I will have the time or expertise to do custom weapons in addition to uniforms and load-outs. Perhaps this will change but for simplicities sake, I’ll just stick with the in-game weapons for now.

Kiwis Do Fly – I’m afraid to go any larger on the feather idea. The Kepi, which I like, probably wouldn't support much more than is there now; and even if it did, I fear the “Guardsmen” of being seen as relying upon their “insidious” slapping skills to defeat an enemy more so than their rifles. Also, his body-armor prevents epaulettes from being shown, besides, I envision him wearing a braid on one shoulder rather than epaulettes. I want him to be inspired by Foreign Legion troops, not an exact copy.

BlackScorpion – Duly noted on the issuance of BDU’s and Hand Grenades vs. Flashbangs. I will make adjustments accordingly. Thank you for pointing that out. It slipped my mind.

I am not sure about the colors on the highly customized Interceptor Body Armor that the “Guard” is wearing. Any suggestions on the color scheme? (The Blue, White and Gold are for the flag and the red, well, I don’t know about the red yet.)



P.S. What do you think about releasing these changes under the brand name "Logical Kit?"

[Col. Faulkner]

An Aug would be like me saying a C7 or C8 just because we use them.

It doesnt fit.
Well I suggested it first, and I've never "used it". It "fits" fine!

[Col. Faulkner]

Col. Faulkner – Since the South Sahrani are being propped-up—in a manner of speaking—by the U.S. Marines, then I think that M-16’s are going to just be a fact of life on Sahrani. I do think that I should pull back from the “sub-machinegun” idea based upon your very logical observations. So, it’s back to the M-16 all-round I think. Also, since I will be doing these units myself—and I have never done that before—if I can’t convince some experienced MOD folks to come on board for this project. I don’t think I will have the time or expertise to do custom weapons in addition to uniforms and load-outs. Perhaps this will change but for simplicities sake, I’ll just stick with the in-game weapons for now.

I can understand that but...Blah! Hey, let's make a deal. If
you can get models done for the humans and you want FNCs
or G3s or FALs or AUGs then I can do them for you! Don't you
worry about that! M16s are just soooo passe

I was working on models for the NI mod before it went tits up.
Here's (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/whisky01/PaddyFAL1.jpg) the FAL I was working on, for example.

[DUX0726]

He-he. It's a deal. Thanks. I want to cover the back-story and uniforms, and have all of that material "nailed-down" before-hand, however.

[wipman]

Hi, i think that for those South Sahrani army a pasgt helmet will be enought, affordable and not too expensive; for the vest... i think that early 90's yankee vests will do the job; also not expensive and if you buy 'em used... then much less. For the weapons i think that G3's will be a good cheap choice, or even better... cetme's C and cetme's L, a cheaper AR that can be bought in good number and that will be asy of find anywhere, from Afrika to South America. Let's C ya

[IDF-Godzilla]

Here are some things i would like to see in the South Saharani forces:
1. Steyr AUG as the primery assault rifle.
2. FN Minimi Para for the Machinegunner (basicly make him an Automatic Rifleman)
3. Some Bell 412 or UH-1 "Iroquois" helicopters would be nice.

[-HUNTER-]

PASGT is ok
Older style US kits also

for weapons

unmodded m4 or alike weapon (short) for defense personel. And highly modded m4's for the commandos. FN MAG as mg. And only commandos have a few FN minimi's.

Would mind some more normal military vehicles. Without guns even. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

[CCZZ]

PASGT is ok
Older style US kits also

for weapons

unmodded m4 or alike weapon (short) for defense personel. And highly modded m4's for the commandos. FN MAG as mg. And only commandos have a few FN minimi's.

Would mind some more normal military vehicles. Without guns even.   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
Old uniforms and state-of-the-art weaponry? That's quite unrealistic... I think a G3 or the FN FAL would best suit the South Sahrani armed forces...

[BlackScorpion]

You're calling M4, FN MAG and FN Minimi "state-of-the-art"? M4s (note: M4, not M4A1 or M4A1 SOPMOD) are just shortened M16s, basically. FN MAG was designed in the '50s and is basically a slightly modified M1918 BAR. Actually not sure about the Minimi, would assume it's based on similar action than MAG, but the thing is still 20 years old (some US Army M249s are already falling apart due to age http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif ), and it's not like they're basic issue anyways (although fairly simple and cheap in most basic configuration).

I like the idea of using FN weaponry. FN FAL for a "ceremony rifle" for the Royal Guard? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

For "basic" MPs, or heavily armed police, I'd say MP5s might do the job. Or alternatively, UZIs or maybe Beretta M12s or Sterlings.

[DUX0726]

http://www.combatreform.com/sheridan2.jpg

This will be the South Sahrani Tank. M551 Sheridan. Perfect for island warfare and U.S. surplus too boot!

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Ahah, looks like a PeeWee tank.

[IDF-Godzilla]

I don't think South Saharani should have tanks, you said it yourself that it got only 650 troops :P.
Instead of tanks, give them more M113 types, maybe better trucks and jeeps for quick security and not use tanks.
Besides, the Sheridan is not an MBT, its more of a fire support vehicle, the thing is made of aluminum, can't even stop 12.7mm bullets, not to mention RPG's/mines and fight against other armor.

[DUX0726]

They've got 4 tanks. They were gifts for the princes birthday from the U.S. There, now they have tanks. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

[IDF-Godzilla]

They've got 4 tanks. They were gifts for the princes birthday from the U.S. There, now they have tanks. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif
You got a wild imagination my friend http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif .

[DUX0726]

That's logical. If I fail to mod the tanks, then they all broke down before the war started. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Well, it's not like M113s aren't made of aluminum and are actually "armored" by any sense of the term.

[DUX0726]

It's more than likely that the M551's will be operated by the Royal Guards; mostly for parades and so-forth; and in the event of war they would be operated by the "grunts" for about an hour or so, until they were all easily wiped-out. 152mm gun should be of some use to them however and it's cheaper to give them M551's than it is to give them upgraded "Gavins" that the U.S. desperatly needs in Iraq right now. (i.e. The Stryker is B.S. and it's always the old-style military equipment that pulls our butts out of the fire; see M-14's and .45 in addition to the above)

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Man, your not kidding about the M-14 either. I would love to trade in my "uber" cool M4 + wacky addon garbage for a nice Wood and Iron rifle with range and takedown power. I don't believe I'm eligible for 4B school unless I can manage to re-class into a different CMF so that's out.

I understand the decision to replace the .45 with a 9mm pistol to go along with NATO standards..doesn't mean I have to like it.

[DUX0726]

5.56 + Cinder-Block Cities = WTF!? Given the choice, I'd ride in an M-113 with a "picket fence" around it any day rather than a Stryker. At any rate, the Sheridan seems logical and appropriate for Sahrani to me.

[Clavicula_nox4817]

Well, I never rode around in a Stryker, the most armor I ever had was the lame Level 3 armor on the Humvee. I agree that one of those oldy time tanks would be neat for them.

[DUX0726]

My favorite vehicle would be a C-17 headed North but I don't think the the South Sahrani could afford it. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Clavicula_nox4817]

lol, A C-17 as long as there is a Static Line or FreeFall exit.

[IDF-Godzilla]

My favorite vehicle would be a C-17 headed North but I don't think the the South Sahrani could afford it. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
I think one unit of C-17 will cost like the whole armies of the north and south of the island. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

[CCZZ]

You're calling M4, FN MAG and FN Minimi "state-of-the-art"? M4s (note: M4, not M4A1 or M4A1 SOPMOD) are just shortened M16s, basically. FN MAG was designed in the '50s and is basically a slightly modified M1918 BAR. Actually not sure about the Minimi, would assume it's based on similar action than MAG, but the thing is still 20 years old (some US Army M249s are already falling apart due to age http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif ), and it's not like they're basic issue anyways (although fairly simple and cheap in most basic configuration).

I like the idea of using FN weaponry. FN FAL for a "ceremony rifle" for the Royal Guard? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

For "basic" MPs, or heavily armed police, I'd say MP5s might do the job. Or alternatively, UZIs or maybe Beretta M12s or Sterlings.
Ok my bad http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

[MontyVCB]

Quote[/b] ]FN MAG was designed in the '50s and is basically a slightly modified M1918 BAR

afaik the MAG, GPMG & M240 are based off the german MG42 rather than the bar.

[Helping_Hand]

They are as is the M60...

[MachoMan]

Quote[/b] ]FN MAG was designed in the '50s and is basically a slightly modified M1918 BAR

afaik the MAG, GPMG & M240 are based off the german MG42 rather than the bar.
Both right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_MAG

[-HUNTER-]

PASGT is ok
Older style US kits also

for weapons

unmodded m4 or alike weapon (short) for defense personel. And highly modded m4's for the commandos. FN MAG as mg. And only commandos have a few FN minimi's.

Would mind some more normal military vehicles. Without guns even. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
Old uniforms and state-of-the-art weaponry? That's quite unrealistic... I think a G3 or the FN FAL would best suit the South Sahrani armed forces...
Well I was thinking more about short variants of the m16 rather then a m4. XM177 or something, like the pilots use in OFP. And also only the commados should get nice kit. M4 modded out. Gift from US. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif And well could also give regulars FN Fal's. But with the Mg's should be as I said before.

oh and btw

how about this camo for the forces! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/thumbs-up.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

click click (http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7384/f272uqrk6.jpg)

[Col. Faulkner]

Quote[/b] ]
FN FAL for a "ceremony rifle" for the Royal Guard?

A "ceremonial" FAL, like THIS (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/whisky01/9.jpg)? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[CCZZ]

PASGT is ok
Older style US kits also

for weapons

unmodded m4 or alike weapon (short) for defense personel. And highly modded m4's for the commandos. FN MAG as mg. And only commandos have a few FN minimi's.

Would mind some more normal military vehicles. Without guns even.   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
Old uniforms and state-of-the-art weaponry? That's quite unrealistic... I think a G3 or the FN FAL would best suit the South Sahrani armed forces...
Well I was thinking more about short variants of the m16 rather then a m4. XM177 or something, like the pilots use in OFP. And also only the commados should get nice kit. M4 modded out. Gift from US.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif  And well could also give regulars FN Fal's. But with the Mg's should be as I said before.

oh and btw

how about this camo for the forces!  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/thumbs-up.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif  

click click (http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7384/f272uqrk6.jpg)
That camo is Green Lizard right?