Why is US soo anti-communist?

[Silencer]

its pretty dumm war, especially all the american civilans calling us "commies" and other remarks.I still get remarks like those in american school.You know how you guys were...

both sides were scared, waiting for each other to press the atomic bomb button.I lived in the soviet union that time.Its not that bad most of everyone lived in apartments we have food a television with cable http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.You could go and buy stuff..the schools are great...

[FetishFool]

No one is anti-Communism anymore.
Not since 1992.


But the US was scared of Communism because they were threatened.

Communism is the best way to take a country out of depression.
But people take Communism way too far. "Equality" of a country is NOT what communism is!!! That's only what it became.

Communism is about the army, and government ruling everything.
Which is good in most ways. But if they screw up, then it's really bad.

Democracy screws up all the time. But since everyone controls everything, there are a lot more people to make things go right again.
Communism is a very solid form of government. But when something goes wrong, it's hard to make things go right again.

Communism is where "Two wrongs don't make a right" come in.

[PFC_Mike]

Communism is the opposite of the american ideals of self-relaince and personal independence. Communism is also the anti-free market. Pure communism does NOT work. Look at China, Russia, any other country that tries pure communism. Didn't work. Ideological differences lead to political purges, and before you know it, everyones starving, in the gulag, or dead. But after the truly insane leaders die off, and reforms are implemented, QOL improves. Take the PRC, CCCP after the deaths of Mao and Stalin. But as systems go, communism and socialism suck ass. Yeah, so you had an apartement and TV. I can get that in the US just working at In-N-Out (truly America's best fast food. Only in CA and NV though)

[PanzerGrenadier]

Two sides buddy.....

Anti US and Anti communism...

The only people that would be stupid enuff to use nuclear weapons are Terrorists, thats why all Nations must unite to WIPE out Terrosim as these are teh villians without a state and which could inflict such a disasterous weapon without the threat of Atomic weapons being used against them as they have no state.

[Wobble]

The only people that would be stupid enuff to use nuclear weapons are Terrorists

guess what former superpower for 4 years sold both nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons technology like it was flour.... and to this day admits it doesent know where many nuclear warheads are and where several thousand tons of the materials to make them went (U235..etc)

when USSR went broke it sold anything to anyone, no questions asked.. as long as the price was right..

now the whole world is trying to cope with the potental consequences...

[FetishFool]

Russia has nothing to lose anymore.

They've lost everything.
-Their women look like men.
-Their men are as skinny as women.
-Their taxi drivers get paid more than scientists.
-Large chunks of Russia have been blown up by their own power plants.
-The people can't even afford a Trabant.
-Their proud AK is a symbol of horror.
-Most of their country is frozen. And the parts that aren't have an endless spring season.
-The rich get poor, and the poor get poorer.
-India is becoming a better country than them.
-Everytime they build something nice, it gets blown up.


Like come on. If you owned Russia, what would YOU do??
You can't even have the women become your slaves, because you'll have to check their pants just to make sure they're women.

[Assault (CAN)]

Yeah, Communism sucks. If you like censorship and dictators thats fine by me. Just don't shove your agenda down my throat http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I hate commies and socialists, to an extent. However, IMO pure capitalism is just as bad as pure socialism, a slight mix can be better. Anyways, back to commie hating!

Pure communism just does not work. It stalls the economy and development, why? Well no matter if you work hard or barely at all you still get the same pay check in the end. When everyone gets the same amount of money, it removes the incentive to work hard. There are no real rewards.

Back when the USSR still existed they would use inefficient, out-of-date equipment which required alot of people to man. They did this because people needed jobs, there weren't any other jobs because of the lack of any kind of free market. If there weren't any jobs, they would put the people on some kind of pointless public works project to generate jobs to keep the people happy. They still do the same in China today. Though China has moved to a kind of free market in recent years.

The Russians would even put factories or mines anywhere people needed work, with no consideration to supply+demand. The Soviet system was the epitome of innefficientcy. Look at them now. Communism simply does not work.

Tyler

[^MORBID^]

2 FetishFool

Their women look like men?
What are you from Mars or something?
Russian women are amongst the most beautiful women there are out there.
And percentage of the good looking women in Russia is one of the highest on earth.
On the other hand most of the american women are fat and not good looking at the least from all the fast food crap and good life.
BTW Israeli women are one of the best looking women too  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Assault (CAN)]

Russian women are amongst the most beautiful women there are out there.

I would have to agree, no argument there! http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Eastern European chicks in general tend to be hot.

Maybe he's thinking of East German chicks?

Tyler

[christophercles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">-Large chunks of Russia have been blown up by their own power plants.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No country has ever had a nuclear powerplant blow up. Theyve just had 1 meltdown, and that was chernobyl. i dont know how to really spell it so shuddup.

[110]

The primary problem is that people look at this as the "US vs Russia" thing. the cold war was not a battle of nations, but a battle of ideals. i dont hate Russians at all and wish them the best of luck in the future.

Capitalism works. sure some companies suck and bribe the govt. to hurt competition (i personally dont call this capitalism). at least under a free economy with competition in place i can choose where to take my buisness. its also a lot easier to sue a company, then to sue a government.

Communism derprieves people the means to acheive any goals. any goals other then serving the state that is. Individual freedom is not recognized under marxism, because independance breeds chaos. under Communism everything is government managed. this is why it is so inefficent and why small communal groups can make it work.

Freedom can not exist because the identity of the indivdual does not exist. this must happen in order to destroy private property which communism supports. you must conform or be "reeducated".

though the Cold war is dead. Communism is not. Communism is more then just itself. Fabiansim and Socialism accomplish the same thing as Communism (govt control over individual directive). they all share the same trait: destruction of the individual and increased state power.

these ideals exist very much here in the USSA. a lot of americans adopt the very ideas that will destroy this great and free nation without realizing it. both Republican and Democrats.

Wealth redistribution is based on "hate" and jealousy. "those evel rich people" as they are categorized. many americans do this and support laws that take more tax from the productive to support their "lifestyle". this is nothing short of Socialism.

If you read the Communist Manifesto you will see all kinds of references to the different types of Socialism.

110 shrugged

[PanzerGrenadier]

Wobble you have quoted me yet i dont know why ?. Why have u quoted that sentance. You have not said anything about it.

[Placebo]

Moving to OT.

[Damage Inc]

placebo my flag is bigger than yours http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Silencer]

communist is some ways a ingenius system...
the problem is it always abused by people like stalin...
stalin killed 200 million people to use them as slaves to build the army and the economy.The russia economy has sky rocketed and it became world power that time...

as soo n as stlain died russia became mush better almost instantly.

soo heres the question....
will communists will be good if they had good and better goverments which funds on the citizens more than the army?

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No one is anti-Communism anymore.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Speak for yourself. Voluntary communism is fine, and works for small groups. State communism is probably the most evil form of government ever created: depending on which estimates you believe, communists killed somewhere between 50,000,000 and 120,000,000 of their own people in the last century, and many of the survivors had their lives utterly destroyed by the oppressive bureaucracy. I don&#39;t know as much about the USSR, but Maoist China as a nation was, quite literally, totally insane, because all power was in the hands of the lunatic at the top.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Communism is the best way to take a country out of depression.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That&#39;s obviously why the USSR and communist China were so rich and America and Europe so poor.

In reality communism makes you poor, because few productive people will voluntarily live in a communist state where the products of their labors are stolen to give to the unproductive, and even if they&#39;re forced to stay they won&#39;t be productive for long... and that is why large-scale communism has always failed and will always fail.

The whole concept of "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs" is so utterly braindead it&#39;s hard to see how anyone could possibly be pro-communism... unless they expect to be the ones thieving from the productive members of society.

[Silencer]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PanzerGrenadier @<hidden> Jan. 25 2002,04:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Two sides buddy.....

Anti US and Anti communism...

The only people that would be stupid enuff to use nuclear weapons are Terrorists, thats why all Nations must unite to WIPE out Terrosim as these are teh villians without a state and which could inflict such a disasterous weapon without the threat of Atomic weapons being used against them as they have no state.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
russia already knew about the taliban along time we fight with rebels in chenuya which could be the taliban.American that time literally helped them and tryed interfeering with the war.

american never noticed the taliban the only thing they thought of doing was bomb russia.

thats why probably russia dosen&#39;t want to help american with military support.I seen on the news that few russian trucks are aiding the cilivians in afganistan...

[Brentk]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MrLaggy @<hidden> Jan. 25 2002,10:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No one is anti-Communism anymore.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Speak for yourself. Voluntary communism is fine, and works for small groups. State communism is probably the most evil form of government ever created: depending on which estimates you believe, communists killed somewhere between 50,000,000 and 120,000,000 of their own people in the last century, and many of the survivors had their lives utterly destroyed by the oppressive bureaucracy. I don&#39;t know as much about the USSR, but Maoist China as a nation was, quite literally, totally insane, because all power was in the hands of the lunatic at the top.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Communism is the best way to take a country out of depression.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That&#39;s obviously why the USSR and communist China were so rich and America and Europe so poor.

In reality communism makes you poor, because few productive people will voluntarily live in a communist state where the products of their labors are stolen to give to the unproductive, and even if they&#39;re forced to stay they won&#39;t be productive for long... and that is why large-scale communism has always failed and will always fail.

The whole concept of "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs" is so utterly braindead it&#39;s hard to see how anyone could possibly be pro-communism... unless they expect to be the ones thieving from the productive members of society.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
nice reply

[InqWiper]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">placebo my flag is bigger than yours

--------------
Damage Inc- the 28th Maniac (on the old forum)


My flag is the biggest :p [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Don´t you know ?
Size doesn´t matter&#33; :-P

I think its a nice thought that no-one should have more or less then someone else, the problem is then people think "I don´t feel like working, I will get what everyone else gets anyway".
Planned economy isnt so smart either, lets say you plan to produce a type of vehicle for 15 years, and after three years its already old, then you will be producing a type of car for 12 years that no-one wants to buy. I think the idea is pretty nice, its too bad it doesnt work. There should not be people as rich as Bill Gates and not people so poor they have to starve to death on the streets.
Thats what I think.

[Silencer]

not everyone is going to the same in communism....
alot of people spend diffrently some people spend right after they get there pay check,others save.

[Red Oct]

soviet union would have been a success if Vladamire Lenin hadnt died. When Lenin took over, the people than had a Idiology and half of the government lenin set up was in fact 50% capitolism. however when stalin took over he just sent that country downward to a spiral downward. stalin was a man NOT for the people but just for his own personal motives. he took the idology away. btw america wasnt the only country with a strong anti-communist way. a lot of eruope had a lot of anti communist in them as well

[Silencer]

when lenin was governor he accually gave the power to the people so they could take over as mush land as they want.
Result of that ,alot of people have farms in russia...

stalin ruined the whole point lenin wanted...
stalin is worst than hitler...

[Red Oct]

yeeeeeeeeeeeeup&#33; what lenin did was he took all the important things like resource mining and other things that could be clasified under important and put them under government control. as for small stuff that would be more like luxeries such as coffe houses, public baths, hotels, those remained under personal ownership. what lenin had in mind was once he could get the people to do whats best for the country, he would turn russia into a anarchy, the theroy of this was people would make personal sacrifice to better them and there country.

[Silencer]

if USA turns communist I bet bill gates will have full control he will make microsoft killer robots&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
bill gates it rich enought to buy countrys

[Red Oct]

i heard from a CNN site that there has been talks of cloning Vladimir Lenin, weird eh? heres a link right here (http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9801/21/russia.lenin/). its somewhere at the bottom of the article where they mention it

[madmike]

but then those robots would crash all the time.

HahA your domed, domed I tell ya

[110]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (InqWiper @<hidden> Jan. 25 2002,20:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">placebo my flag is bigger than yours  

--------------
Damage Inc- the 28th Maniac (on the old forum)


My flag is the biggest http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Don´t you know ?
Size doesn´t matter&#33; :-P

I think its a nice thought that no-one should have more or less then someone else, the problem is then people think "I don´t feel like working, I will get what everyone else gets anyway".
Planned economy isnt so smart either, lets say you plan to produce a type of vehicle for 15 years, and after three years its already old, then you will be producing a type of car for 12 years that no-one wants to buy. I think the idea is pretty nice, its too bad it doesnt work. There should not be people as rich as Bill Gates and not people so poor they have to starve to death on the streets.
Thats what I think.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And what commisar is to decide how much/less a free person should own? Jealous morons.

unless Bill Gates has deprieved another person of right to life/property he is not a criminal. people hate him simply becasue he is rich. SO F@<hidden>#CKING WHAT&#33; more power to him.

If i come up with an idea and build a business that grows large, why should i feel guilty for providing jobs and oportunities for others or being wealthy?. Bill Gates success helps others and people hate him because of it. if it were not for entrepaneurs you people would have to wait in line for toilet paper and denim jeans.

instead of whining about how "rich" a person is, why not build something yourself and truly contribute to society.


110
____
"for each according to their initiative, providing their means"

[Wobble]

Wobble you have quoted me yet i dont know why ?. Why have u quoted that sentance. You have not said anything about it.

You said that only terrorists would be crazy enough to attack the US with nuclear weapons..

virtually all the people the USSR sold (oopp I mean that vanished and they cant find) nuclear weapons, weapons parts  and technology to were... well lets say "people with questionable goals"

you say only terrorists would be crazy enough to use nukes.. well the USSR did a good job of making the crazy idea a real threat by blindley *cough cough* "losing" so many weapons and material and technology as to make that CRAZY idea a realsitic threat today.  Few will bother denying the fact that the USSR was willing to sell ANYTHING to ANYONE as long as they could pay for it.. be it a country or individual...  anyone.. they didnt give a damn about the future and the consequences. as they saw was &#036;&#036;&#036;

seem to be a good reason for the US to be "soo anti-communist" to me..


As for Bill Gates... he worked hard, had a good idea, followed through with his dream... now has has more money than many goverments... way to go Bill&#33;&#33;..

If you want to piss an moan becaue Gates is rich and your not.. pull your panties out of yer crack and make something of yourself.

[Silencer]

I heard over the CNN news about russia and the nucluer missile treaty being left out.After that,CNN said russia still has around 1,500 nucleur warheads.Sounds too good to be true....

[Wobble]

I think tis funny that for so long the USSR voilated the treaty in the ass at every angle and now they pull it out and say "ohh, you cant do that.. the treaty&#33;"

the whole reason the US wants the MDS is because russia sold all those fucking nukes to god knows who.. which was a MASSIVE violation of the all important treaty that the russians now try to point their fingers at..

they also broke it several more times by installing secret early warning radar systems in areas the treaty forbid..

too late ruskies.

[DayGlow]

Fetish tool you seem to describe Canada pretty well there with our socialist leanings. Everything is going to the shitter here right now http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

An interesting tibit of information that I have learned is that democracy comes about when the general population of a country hits the 50% litericy rate. When the Soviet Union hit 50% the country changed. Even the American Revolution happenned when the people hit the 50% mark. Now China is nearing it so we have watch and see if this theory holds true.

COLINMAN

[WKK Gimbal]

China is going to be a huge threat to the western world in the future. Not in a military manner, but trading-wise. With so many willing workers and still better resources, they&#39;ll become unstopable.

The western world has had a long golden period, but the balance of power is ever changing. The west are not patent-holders regarding wealth.

Tough titty, but I think it&#39;s true.

[hlq2action]

because americans sux ass...
they want to have the control of everything...

that s why they don t like communism...

americans are not tolerant at all

in europe we re getting strong and stronger and asia nations too....

we could expect a WW3 against americans in some days...

but i stop saying too much about that because the BIS team are working for the US government and so are for USA...
(they are developping a ofp version for the us government)

they are PRO americans.

FEAR THE EAST AMERICANS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[KingBeast]

Wel lthe boys at BIS are hardly going to be huge fans of Russia and Communism now are they http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Silencer]

american tend to stick there noses into everyones busniess.The capltism goverment will not have any power and a depressed while come very easilly.Communism is the oposite they rarely have a depression.

american interfeered in chenuya ,kosovo.Basicly in every war in history.

NO wonder the taliban attacked them becuase they helped paksitan.

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (hlq2action @<hidden> Jan. 27 2002,22:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">because americans sux ass...
they want to have the control of everything...

that s why they don t like communism...

americans are not tolerant at all[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I&#39;m not American.......but I&#39;m certainly intolerant of comments like your first line, I wouldn&#39;t expect somebody to only think good things of another country, but, if you cannot hold a discussion without resorting to immature rants like that I think you&#39;ll probably be better off finding a new forum to post in http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Silencer]

he dosen&#39;t make any sense?....
captism is where the weak goverment has no control over the country.

[Wobble]

because americans sux ass...
they want to have the control of everything...

that s why they don t like communism...

americans are not tolerant at all

in europe we re getting strong and stronger and asia nations too....

we could expect a WW3 against americans in some days...

but i stop saying too much about that because the BIS team are working for the US government and so are for USA...
(they are developping a ofp version for the us government)

they are PRO americans.

FEAR THE EAST AMERICANS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

What a fucking idiot...



american tend to stick there noses into everyones busniess.The capltism goverment will not have any power and a depressed while come very easilly.
american interfeered in chenuya ,kosovo.Basicly in every war in history.

NO wonder the taliban attacked them becuase they helped paksitan.

are you retarded?? are you really daft enough to believe the US actually WANTS to be stuck in these shitholes??

the US is part of NATO, it along with other nations are have an obligation(s) to go to these places..

its stupid pissy shit like this that annoys me..  because if the US didnt go to these god forsaken places you would be all pissing and moaning that the US is turning its back on these poooor people.. letting them die/starve ...etc

the us goes because its part of NATO.. no other reason..

people like you are a dime a dozen.. just sit back and bitch no matter what.. if the US goes you piss and moan that it "sticking its nose in".. if it doesent you piss and moan that is abandoning poor innocent people and letting the die/starve..

quit complaing.


Communism is the oposite they rarely have a depression.

no it just becomes corrupt, murderous and eventually falls apart.

NO wonder the taliban attacked them becuase they helped paksitan

Taleban didnt attack the US.. the fucking coward Al-Queda did.. and it didnt attack america.. it commited an act of terrorism tha that has now put it on the endgengered species list.

all the Taleban was refuse to allow NATO to come in and look for Bin-Laden, saying the US would be attacked.. seeing as how Bin-Laden literally owns (owned) the Taleban it was a good thing.. so that now they can get their asses kicked too.



on a side note.. anyone see this video that circulating? I saw something about it on Fox News today.. it just turned up.. some kinda video found in a mosk(sp) that shows taleban murdering a truck full of people (men,women,children) as they were "infedels"... it was ment as a recruitment video for the telaben

[Silencer]

WOBBLE QUIT INSULTING ME I THOUGHT THIS IS A NICE COMMUNITY&#33;
someone bann wobble&#33;

wobble be nice
even in russia we are more serious and nicer.

[Wobble]

WOBBLE QUIT INSULTING ME I THOUGHT THIS IS A NICE COMMUNITY&#33;

you insult my country, military, and goverment and you expect me to be nice..

blow me.

[Silencer]

I&#39;m not insulting you I&#39;m justing to stop america calling russia "commies" remarks.Theres nothing wrong with communism.I don&#39;t mind wearing the same clothes as everyone.geting paid the same,acually thats thats the good part most of the time I&#39;m lazy ,I still get paid http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Wobble]

Well.. ok I get what yer sayin.. but saying the US is sticking its nose in these places we go.. is a bit wrong.. we are obligated as a NATO country to go if the counsel decides.. we dont just dive in on our own accord for the hell of it.. I would imagine there are many many places the US would like to stay out of but we have to got as part of our commitment to NATO.

soryy I went off on ya though http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Placebo]

Wobble did you read my post to hlq2action? In case it escaped your attention here&#39;s the gist of it......

if you cannot hold a discussion without resorting to immature rants like that I think you&#39;ll probably be better off finding a new forum to post in

That applies to him, you and everyone else.

You&#39;re not a kid so stop posting like one please, I&#39;d really hate to have to ban you but I&#39;m really getting sick and tired of having to remind people about their manners only for you come along and go off on one of your petulant rants.

[Ex-RoNiN]

pet·u·lant (pch-lnt)
adj.
Unreasonably irritable or ill-tempered; peevish.
Contemptuous in speech or behavior.

The above definition was originally made by www.dictionary.com.

Wehey, I learned something new today http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

So yeah, behave folks, don&#39;t upset our admin plz http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Frizbee]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @<hidden> Jan. 25 2002,06:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Russian women are amongst the most beautiful women there are out there.

I would have to agree, no argument there&#33;  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Eastern European chicks in general tend to be hot.

Maybe he&#39;s thinking of East German chicks?

Tyler[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Either that or he&#39;s been playing too many computer games.. where the enemy female leaders are ALWAYS fat dictators *L*

[Sadico]

I have a russian friend, and his sister is hot&#33; http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Silencer]

I have russian girls in my school,I&#39;m russian myself.

The girls are short http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif too short

[Blink Dog]

I think most of you know what my opinion of communism is. Personally I despise communist governments, they reward the lazy and punish those who work hard.

Just think about this:

If communism did not fall in eastern europe we would not have OFP. Our friends in the Czech republic would not have been allowed to form a company on their own and make such a great game.

[Wobble]

Wobble did you read my post to hlq2action? In case it escaped your attention here&#39;s the gist of it......

*Wobble acts like he is banned*

OK.. im not gonna dooo... what ya all think im gonna dooo... and just FLIP OUT&#33;&#33;&#33;...  but I ask one thing.... whoes comin with me?.. huh.. huh... WHOS COMIN WITH ME&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;..... huh..

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


hehe j/k

dont get sore placebo.. just fighting the comme hords http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .. lol j/k (again)

hey we kissed and made up.. get off my ass http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

what post were you referring to anyway?? the one to silencer or that other... "person"?  

[hlq2action]

I&#39;m not American.......but I&#39;m certainly intolerant of comments like your first line, I wouldn&#39;t expect somebody to only think good things of another country, but, if you cannot hold a discussion without resorting to immature rants like that I think you&#39;ll probably
&#33;&#33;&#33; be better off finding a new forum to post in  &#33;&#33;&#33;

this is a good disctatorial post from mister placebo admin (mister saddam hussein).

here is the translation of what it mean : if you continue posting things about my idol nation i m gonna cut your head off...

i think it s useless to speek to these americans whores...
they know nothing about communism....

DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS NOT MUCH POOR PEOPLE IN AMERICA?http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif??

DO YOU KNOW THAT THE AMERICANS GOT THE BEST DRESSED POOR PEOPLE OF THE WORLD....

THERE IS LOT OF POOR PEOPLE IN AMERICA TOO.
SO STOP SPEEKING AS A STUPID AMERICAN REPUBLICAN.

*** russians and overall asians are getting more and more powerfull everyday.. FEAR ABOUT EAST &#33;&#33;&#33; ***

HEHEHE

not but seriously stop thinking that americans are superior to everybody... this is totally wrong.

the best "brains" of the world don t come from USA but from russia, germany....

just take for example "" americans famous actors""
that are not actually americans at all...

i mean by that
arnorld chwarzeneger that is austrian.
jean claude vandamme that is belgian.
dolf lundgren that is from norway....

americans got nothing but the MONEY to attract interesting people from the other contries...

and STOP thinking that USA wants to HELP everybody for the good cause they don t.

these bitches are earning something everytime they do something.

and for Wobble now... it s not by showing everytime the fucking american flag that you ll make me think that you are not with usa...
you should be a little more smart.

who really care of the fucking deads of the twin towers???
these shitheads killed at least 5 times more innocents in afghanistan with their bombs...

so stop beeing BLIND.
I don t have other word.

STOP BEEING BLIND.

O P E N   Y O U R   E Y E S

read BETWEEN THE LINES.
DON T TRUST FUCKING MEDIA.
STOP WATCHING CNN.

MEDIA CAN MANIPULATING YOU REALLY EASILY...
YOU DON T EVEN BELIEVE THE POWER OF MEDIA TO MANIPULATE THE POPULATION

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">this is a good disctatorial post from mister placebo admin (mister saddam hussein).

here is the translation of what it mean : if you continue posting things about my idol nation i m gonna cut your head off...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


No when I said
if you cannot hold a discussion without resorting to immature rants like that I think you&#39;ll probably be better off finding a new forum to post in

what I meant was.....


if you cannot hold a discussion without resorting to immature rants like that I think you&#39;ll probably be better off finding a new forum to post in


And when I say now, your posting rights have been removed, you&#39;re no longer welcome on this forum, what I mean is, your posting rights have been removed, you&#39;re no longer welcome on this forum.


And people, don&#39;t reply to his post please, or at the very least don&#39;t fall for his bait and lower yourself to his standards.

[Silencer]

in american they teach you american history...

in WWII histroy they talked about the concentration camps...

WOW 3 million people died there.
THAT NOTHING compared to what has happened to russia.
200 million russian died.....and
AMAZING THEY ADVANCED AND DEFEATED GERMANY IN STALINGRAD.American had relaly no effect on the war,except in japan,which i feel sorry for them, americans killed the civilans as revenge.

[Placebo]

Your figures are off but that&#39;s besides the point....


Not really sure what point you&#39;re trying to make, unless you&#39;ve been to an American school you don&#39;t truly know what is taught there, I&#39;m English so I only went to an English school, I was taught nothing about WWII, everything I know about WWII is from documentaries and books, it&#39;s called self education, please do not base your prejudices on what you believe or do not believe is taught in schools, whether they be in America or anywhere else.

You&#39;ll find, as I have found from being involved in the Opf community for so long, that most people around here have a real thirst for knowledge, not insults, not misguided prejudice, but knowledge, knowledge is a wonderful thing, self enlightening, it has no boundaries http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Thehamster]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Silencer @<hidden> Jan. 28 2002,20:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in american they teach you american history...

in WWII histroy they talked about the concentration camps...

WOW 3 million people died there.
THAT NOTHING compared to what has happened to russia.
200 million russian died.....and
AMAZING THEY ADVANCED AND DEFEATED GERMANY IN STALINGRAD.American had relaly no effect on the war,except in japan,which i feel sorry for them, americans killed the civilans as revenge.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It is more like 20 million lost. The Germans kind of got beat by the Russia winter more plus there supply line could not keep up with them.

[superfly_bonzai]

communism mightn&#39;t be great in practice but u gotta sympathise with the ideas behind (complete equality) but u gotta admit capitalism aint exactly great either.

[Wobble]

except in japan,which i feel sorry for them, americans killed the civilans as revenge.

sorry if I offend ya Placebo..

but this is the most ignorant un-educated thing I have ever read.....

yes as you watch any history show about Japan in WW2 you cant miss seeing the US soldiers wandering around murdering poor japanese civilians.. ohh the bastards...


unless your referring to the atomic bombs.. which is evern more stupid seeing as how every nation in WW2 participated in the bombing of Civilian populations (and the US didnt start it either)..  the Raf killed more civs in one night in Drezden than either of the atomic bombs killed...

Its funny how some people will streatch sooo far and create their own historical facts just to take a poke at the mean evil US..




American had relaly no effect on the war

funny.. the P-39 aircobra was the USSR&#39;s favorite most capable fighter plane for most of the war..

and I guess the US never gave any of the other countries stuff either.. no weapons, no material, no vehicles (there was never a jeep) and no food... yes... and Im sure the 8th airforce made no impact in the war.. neither did any of the US planes... bah... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Wobble]

communism mightn&#39;t be great in practice but u gotta sympathise with the ideas behind (complete equality) but u gotta admit capitalism aint exactly great either.

hmm.. you bust your ass ..get a good education... get a great job.. and you make the same as some nitwit living with mom working in a meat packing plant... yes very great concept http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Placebo]

I watched an excellent 4 part docu entitled something like "War in the Pacific" hard to have any sympathy for the Japanese after seeing that, they did stuff that would have made the SS "proud".

Murdering 100s of thousands of civilian Chinese for petty reasons like giving food or medical aid to wounded allies etc........

No it doesn&#39;t mean it was or wasn&#39;t ok to drop atomic bombs on civilians........it means that if they were not dropped 100s of thousands more people would most likely have died..........

[110]

Communism could only be good if it is completely voluntary. otherwise the use of government force is necessary in order to maintain the economy. this is why it can work in microcosm.

If a group of people decided to band together and share their wealth in a communal setting, then i would say more power to them and could admire their effort.

This is not the case in actual Communism where you are forced to participate. at least under the dreaded capitalism you are free to share your wealth with whomever you want.


110
____
"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizen to give to the other." -Voltaire

"Politicians never accuse you of &#39;greed&#39; for wanting other people&#39;s money-only for wanting to keep your own money." -Joseph Sobran

"Winners compare their achievements with their goals, while losers compare their achievements with those of other people." -Nido Qubein

[Wobble]

If a group of people decided to band together and share their wealth in a communal setting, then i would say more power to them and could admire their effort.

kind of how some groups of people in NY will get together and buy a apartment building, and base the rent on the avarage income of the people in that area... thats actually a smart (and very nice) idea..

but communism by choice is a oxymoron.. seeing how communism is all about NOT have a choice..

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Silencer @<hidden> Jan. 28 2002,00:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Communism is the oposite they rarely have a depression.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Indeed not: communists are depressed all the time. I mean, when you may be starved to death in order to keep the bureaucrats fat, might be dragged out of your house and tortured or shot at any moment, and have to wait years for major goods like a car (if you&#39;re lucky enough to be allocated one) how could things get any worse?

[R. Gerschwarzenge]

Some countries say that they are communist countries but in reality they are totalitarian countries. And there are different types of communism just like there are different types of Christianity. Every form of communism is not bad mmmkay.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS NOT MUCH POOR PEOPLE IN AMERICA?http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif??[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No, povery is entirely relative. The average "poor" person in America is vastly better off than the middle-class in communist nations: people in America are classed as "poor" if they only have two TVs and one car... most people in communist nations could only dream of being so rich.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the best "brains" of the world don t come from USA but from russia, germany....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, I believe more than 50% of America&#39;s top scientists are immigrants. Which just goes to show you can do well with an education system that most of the world considers a joke provided you&#39;re able to persuade the best in the world to move there.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">arnorld chwarzeneger that is austrian.
jean claude vandamme that is belgian.
dolf lundgren that is from norway....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And William Shatner is Canadian&#33;

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">americans got nothing but the MONEY to attract interesting people from the other contries...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And a little thing called "freedom". Certainly European nations are more free in some respects (e.g. the ludicrous 21 drinking age and the "War on Drugs"), but overall, despite the best efforts of the US government it&#39;s still the freest nation on the planet... though these days that&#39;s not saying too much.

I mean, really, if life in America is so bad, why do they have millions of people so desperate to get in that they&#39;ll happily try to sneak across the border at night despite barriers and armed guards? America has walls to keep people out, communist nations had walls to keep people in: that tells you about all you need to know about the quality of life.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (R. Gerschwarzenge @<hidden> Jan. 29 2002,13:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some countries say that they are communist countries but in reality they are totalitarian countries. And there are different types of communism just like there are different types of Christianity. Every form of communism is not bad mmmkay.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You know, when I&#39;m dreaming at night I can fly just by thinking about it. Such a shame that it doesn&#39;t work in the real world.

Similarly, fantasy communism is almost impossible in groups of more than half a dozen people because you have far too many divergent opinions to satisfy. Nation-scale communism is totalitarian by design, because it absolutely requires the utter sacrifice of individuality to the will of the state and a massive bureaucracy to decide how much of each good should be produced, by whom and what our needs are: and you can safely bet that their opinion of my needs wouldn&#39;t include a Ferrari and Kirsten Dunst in a hot-tub.

I&#39;m amazed that anyone can believe that communism is anything other than a fantasy when it&#39;s been proven over and over again that it&#39;s a devastating failure every time it&#39;s tried on a large scale, and the most murderous and destructive system of government ever invented.

[Brass]

what a melting pot of american ignorence.

all of you have regurgetated the propaganda which your government spat at you about communism. none of you have actually lived in the CIS (doubt you know what that means, as you only know "usa, usa, usa" in a dumb chorus) and so your smart-ass remarks should not be put into the forum.

now who is under their government&#39;s thumb? at least in communism it was open, while in the opitemy of capitalism (US) youre in self-denial of the mass control over you by your government. i thought your constitution said that if power was to be put into one body, there would be another revolution against it. the body in question now is the government.

by the way, have pretzels been made illegal? on the account that 50% voted for bush will have the same IQ as him and are in real danger.

[Vir]

Lets see what we can do with a copy,paste and minor changes...

what a melting pot of Russian ignorence.

all of you have regurgetated the propaganda which your government spat at you about capitalism. none of you have actually lived in the US (im sure you know what that means, as you only know "bad usa,bad usa,bad usa" in a dumb chorus) and so your smart-ass remarks should not be put into the forum.

&#39;by the way, have pretzels been made illegal? on the account that 50% voted for bush will have the same IQ as him and are in real danger.&#39;

What? If your refering to bush choking on a pretzel... what does that have to do with intelligence? he just needs to chew more.

Advice: if your going to argue on an english forum, learn english.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Brass @<hidden> Jan. 29 2002,16:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">all of you have regurgetated the propaganda which your government spat at you about communism.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So you mean that Mao starving 30-80,000,000 people to death, Stalin starving to death 20,000,000 or more and murdering millions more was just propaganda? That the streets of Moscow were paved with gold and it was just painted over in all the media coverage? That every Russian had three Ferraris in the garage, but the TV only showed us street scenes full of crappy Russian cars? That those queues for products I can walk into any shopping center in the West and buy in two minutes were all faked? That they didn&#39;t build a wall across Europe to prevent people from escaping, it was really to keep the jealous Europeans out?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">none of you have actually lived in the CIS[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Oddly enough, I wouldn&#39;t be surprised to end up living in the ex-USSR or China, but that&#39;s because they&#39;re abandoning whatever is left of communism for capitalism, while America and Europe are heading the other way. However, had I been in the USSR I&#39;d either have been taken out and shot or sent to one of the labor camps.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">now who is under their government&#39;s thumb? at least in communism it was open,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That&#39;s obviously why people loved it so much they had to build a wall to keep them in.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">while in the opitemy of capitalism (US) youre in self-denial of the mass control over you by your government.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Tell that to any American when they&#39;re filling out their tax return. Most Americans I know well love their country and hate their government.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i thought your constitution said that if power was to be put into one body, there would be another revolution against it. the body in question now is the government.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

It&#39;s not in any version of the constitution that I&#39;ve read. But the revolution will come when:

1. The rest of the world realises that dollar bills are just bits of green paper with some dead guy&#39;s head on the front,

or

2. The boomers realise they can&#39;t all retire at 60 with fat pensions and "free" healthcare and the younger generation realise they can&#39;t all retire at 35 from their NASDAQ investments,

or

3. The top 1% of the rich leave: since they pay 30% of the taxes, it would bankrupt the government.

Until then, bread, circuses and corporate pork will keep it going a while longer.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">by the way, have pretzels been made illegal? on the account that 50% voted for bush will have the same IQ as him and are in real danger.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Considering the choice on offer was between the village idiot and the raving fruitcake (I&#39;ll let you decide who&#39;s who), I&#39;m impressed that about 50% of qualified voters stayed home and the few who turned out were so utterly underwhelmed by the choice that the result was a tie.

[Shabadu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Jan. 25 2002,04:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only people that would be stupid enuff to use nuclear weapons are Terrorists[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So are the yanks a bunch of terrorists then? They&#39;re certainly stupid enough.

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @<hidden> Jan. 29 2002,16:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So are the yanks a bunch of terrorists then? They&#39;re certainly stupid enough.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Feel free to have a discussion by all means, but please refrain from posting inflammatory, immature comments like that one, thanx http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pure communism does NOT work[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Complete and utter bollocks. I can take you to many small scale societys that base their existance on communist beliefs and attitudes. There are camps dotted all over the UK and they WORK.

Russia/China were NOT pure communist regions, they were/are cases of corrupt leaders and FORCED communism. IMO no society works by forcing a political belief on someone.

[Silencer]

small scale communism is nice...
russia had abused the powers they spend more on the military and less on the civilans.

[Silencer]

wobble I hear nothing but crap coming out of you&#39;re smelly mouth&#33;

someone needs to wash you&#39;re mouth with soap&#33;
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Placebo]

Silencer "play" nice or I&#39;d rather you didn&#39;t post at all http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[brgnorway]

I have to say that communism has never been a succes as a state system. Same goes for capitalism even if it proves to be good for some nations. However, with the enormous poverty in large parts of the world one can hardly claim capitalism to be of benefit for most people on earth. Even if I dont approve with operationalized marxism I must admit that if you dont own the means of production you really are screwed. When this concerns whole countries (3&#39;d world), it is an even more severe problem of unequality.

[Silencer]

are you against I&#39;m getting paranoid&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
I didn&#39;t sleep for 5 days

[R. Gerschwarzenge]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some countries say that they are communist countries but in reality they are totalitarian countries. And there are different types of communism just like there are different types of Christianity. Every form of communism is not bad mmmkay.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You know, when I&#39;m dreaming at night I can fly just by thinking about it. Such a shame that it doesn&#39;t work in the real world.

Similarly, fantasy communism is almost impossible in groups of more than half a dozen people because you have far too many divergent opinions to satisfy. Nation-scale communism is totalitarian by design, because it absolutely requires the utter sacrifice of individuality to the will of the state and a massive bureaucracy to decide how much of each good should be produced, by whom and what our needs are: and you can safely bet that their opinion of my needs wouldn&#39;t include a Ferrari and Kirsten Dunst in a hot-tub.

I&#39;m amazed that anyone can believe that communism is anything other than a fantasy when it&#39;s been proven over and over again that it&#39;s a devastating failure every time it&#39;s tried on a large scale, and the most murderous and destructive system of government ever invented.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I never said forced large scale communism would work. People are too stupid and selfish for that.

This is irrelevant but in Star Trek universe the Federation is communistic.  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I don&#39;t know how many have actually noticed that.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @<hidden> Jan. 30 2002,04:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However, with the enormous poverty in large parts of the world one can hardly claim capitalism to be of benefit for most people on earth.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And, surprise, surprise, most of those nations with enormous poverty have... communist or marxist governments. Or do you think it&#39;s just some kind of coincidence that the richest nations on Earth are all either capitalist or wimpy socialist? How can anyone blame capitalism for nations destroying themselves with bizarre left-wing ideologies?

Now, it&#39;s certainly true that the IMF and World Bank have impoverished those nations even further, but both of those are socialist institutions which would not exist in a free-market capitalist world and should be dismantled immediately with their management put on trial for crimes against humanity.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (R. Gerschwarzenge @<hidden> Jan. 30 2002,11:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I never said forced large scale communism would work. People are too stupid and selfish for that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No, people are individuals with their own opinions. You&#39;re the selfish one, expecting the rest of the world to sacrifice their individuality for your benefit.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is irrelevant but in Star Trek universe the Federation is communistic. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Star Trek "communism" is just another plot device they invent in one episode to forget about for the next season until it becomes useful again. The Star Trek Federation is certainly a highly militarised socialist state, but they have money and private property, so it&#39;s hardly communist.

It&#39;s also yet another reason why I consider Star Trek a joke. If you want an attempt to produce a realistic SF communist society, you need to read Iain Banks&#39; "Culture" books, but even they are implausible in the extreme as political prophecy: though I did like "Excession", which demonstrated that the Culture types are only happy, fluffy, "can&#39;t we all get along?" bunnies when they have nothing to fight over... the moment a unique object turns up they all want to own it.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Armourdave @<hidden> Jan. 29 2002,18:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Complete and utter bollocks. I can take you to many small scale societys that base their existance on communist beliefs and attitudes. There are camps dotted all over the UK and they WORK.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And in my experience most of those groups scrounge off the hard-working taxpayers through the welfare state; it&#39;s easy to be a "communist" when you don&#39;t have to do the shit work. Nor are they truly communist, since they still have money and private property. Or am I the only one who&#39;s actually read the Communist Manifesto?

[R. Gerschwarzenge]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MrLaggy @<hidden> Jan. 30 2002,15:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, people are individuals with their own opinions. You&#39;re the selfish one, expecting the rest of the world to sacrifice their individuality for your benefit.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have learned not to expect anything from anyone and the most certainly I do not seek benefit with the cost of other people&#39;s freedom and happiness and I appreciate the individuality of the people and their own opinions.

I wish this conversation would be in Finnish so that I could say exactly what I mean and not to cause any misunderstandings. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MrLaggy @<hidden> Jan. 30 2002,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It&#39;s also yet another reason why I consider Star Trek a joke. If you want an attempt to produce a realistic SF communist society, you need to read Iain Banks&#39; "Culture" books, but even they are implausible in the extreme as political prophecy: though I did like "Excession", which demonstrated that the Culture types are only happy, fluffy, "can&#39;t we all get along?" bunnies when they have nothing to fight over... the moment a unique object turns up they all want to own it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Man I just love Banks. The Culture books are in the top lot of SF, since old Iain has thought about things a lot. Anyway, you got to remember that not everybody got agitated in Excession. It was just the couple of ships (like the rapid offensive unit Frank Exchange of Views), who happened to be in the neighborhood to react. Most of the ships, drones and biologicals of the Culture just carried on with their hedonism thingy.

Besides, I doubt the Culture is communism. Since anybody can have anything they want, it is something I would call an utopia.

Man, The Use Of Weapons must be one of the best books I have ever read: "Any object or concept an organism uses to lenghten its survival can be called a weapon. Thus, survival comes down to the use of weapons." And Cheraderinde Zakalwe must be the best in the use of weapons, any weapons... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Jan. 30 2002,15:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Besides, I doubt the Culture is communism. Since anybody can have anything they want, it is something I would call an utopia.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well, I believe Banks calls it &#39;anarcho-socialist&#39;, but there&#39;s no money and no private property. To quote the commie manifesto, "the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

So in that sense it&#39;s one of the few true communist societies in fiction: but it only works because the AIs are willing to do the hard work behind the scenes while the humans lounge around playing games or whatever.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Man, The Use Of Weapons must be one of the best books I have ever read[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Certainly a good one, though I never quite figured out the prologue. Now, the Culture universe would make a good computer game, particularly if it was a massive multiplayer...

[Brass]

good reply, mr lag. thanks for filling the gaps in my knowledge about US law.
and yeah, i know that you found it astonishing that it wasa tie, but hey, a revolution in the US is long overdue. leaving unstability and crash of the dollar, and the UK to be the new imperialist dictators of the world through money.

secondly, in the propaganda bit. i know you got all the statistics on dead and so on, and i know that this was totally tragic in russia&#39;s history, that such a madman came to power.
but i am referring to the propaganda of such images as dreary streets, secret police at every corner, not allowed outside, and all those types of things.
ok, there was no free speech until the mid to late 80s in ussr, but people didnt live in 2 by 4 foot flats with no electricity or water. we had the staple foods and goods and services, but not the luxury stuff, which, really makes you spoilt if had too much, like in the west, like i am now.


everyone listen to rage against the machine&#33;&#33; well soon have a revolution&#33; etc

[Shabadu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Jan. 29 2002,17:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So are the yanks a bunch of terrorists then? They&#39;re certainly stupid enough.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Feel free to have a discussion by all means, but please refrain from posting inflammatory, immature comments like that one, thanx http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So why was a thread (I forget which one) allowed to go on while some yanks were cussing Brits to begin with? It got quite long.

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @<hidden> Jan. 30 2002,15:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So why was a thread (I forget which one) allowed to go on while some yanks were cussing Brits to begin with? It got quite long.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What was the topic of the thread? And how long ago?

[brgnorway]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
And, surprise, surprise, most of those nations with enormous poverty have... communist or marxist governments. Or do you think it&#39;s just some kind of coincidence that the richest nations on Earth are all either capitalist or wimpy socialist? How can anyone blame capitalism for nations destroying themselves with bizarre left-wing ideologies?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Statements like that are a bit simplistic to say the least. I&#39;m sure there are lots of poor countries that are marxist, but certainly not all. And I dare not say "most", nor should you. There are also many poor nations that would very much like to be a succesfull "capitalist country", but it&#39;s just not possible. But you are right of course - it&#39;s no coincidence that many countries are ridden by poverty. And it&#39;s not all due to socialism, mismanagement or sheer lazyness. In fact we (my own country included) make sure of that by keeping down the prices of their natural resources as well as supporting the corrupt local leaders and politicians with cash and arms.  In return the self appointed leaders deny the working force any right to organize labour unions thus keeping the cost of production as low as possible for our own benefit.
I&#39;d also like to stress the fact that the developement countries large debts further enhances the problem because it makes it impossible to buy or develop their own technology nessecary to compete with western countries.

This gives me a bad taste in my mouth when people are saying they fight communism. In fact, I&#39;d rather say it&#39;s logic for people to look towards other political alternatives when they have experienced that capitalism certainly not is beneficial on their behalf.

Furthermore, there is also poverty within many capitalist societies, and to say that the poor could only blame themselves is ignorant. People loose their jobs for several reasons, not allways because they are lazy. Even if we like to think that every- and anyone can succed, this is not allways the case. Lots of people have a disadvantage because they are not brought up in homes with resourcefull parents. And by that I mean intellectual as well as economical.

I have a feeling that some people (you?) tend to think of the world as black and white. For you there is no other goal than being a succesfull capitalist or whatever you call it. And if a person doesn&#39;t fit the picture he surely must be a communist. There are however many societies that wish for nothing else than continuing their way of life without having to cope with oppression and indifference caused by our capitalist system. Try to explain the Yanomamő indians in the amazon rainforest the benefits of your way of life when you at the same time burn down the forest that provides their subsistence livelihood. But they are commies right?

[brgnorway]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Complete and utter bollocks. I can take you to many small scale societys that base their existance on communist beliefs and attitudes. There are camps dotted all over the UK and they WORK.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And in my experience most of those groups scrounge off the hard-working taxpayers through the welfare state; it&#39;s easy to be a "communist" when you don&#39;t have to do the shit work. Nor are they truly communist, since they still have money and private property. Or am I the only one who&#39;s actually read the Communist Manifesto?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There are lots of societies that consider themselves to be communist in one way or another. I know of one which is situated in Karlsřy in the northern Norway. They receive no support from the government whatsoever and neither do they receive any of the taxpayers money. Their livelihood is based on selling products generated by farming.

You really should read the Manifest more carefully because you clearly havent understood it properly. Marx and Engels theory is not about abolishing money or property. Its about owning the means of production. The money generated by working is supposed to go back to the workers themselves, not a capitalist per se whom in M & E&#39;s opinion didn&#39;t do any labour themselves. True, the individual can&#39;t own property though. If the collective group considered the group to be closed, then it is a functioning communist society.

The Soviet Union on the other hand was not a communist society - it was marxist-leninist, and something totally different.

Personaly I prefer the social liberalism which is based on pluralism. It takes away some of the more harmfull aspects of capitalism.

[Shabadu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Jan. 30 2002,16:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So why was a thread (I forget which one) allowed to go on while some yanks were cussing Brits to begin with? It got quite long.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What was the topic of the thread? And how long ago?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My mistake TheHamster started it. But it went on for a while. The thread was in A&M and was called &#39;NATO more like USA USA&#33;&#33;&#33;&#39; or something.

[foxer]

I&#39;am Anti-communist,not anti-russia.Seems like you people put the 2 together.Look at china,then cuba,then north korea.,These countries are very poor.Ask yourself why india,china Has a billion people.You know why ? Because they can&#39;t buy condoms.  Or something like that.  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @<hidden> Jan. 31 2002,14:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ask yourself why india,china Has a billion people.You know why ? Because they can&#39;t buy condoms.  Or something like that.  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
China has a billion people because our Glorious Comrade Chairman Mao instigated a deliberate breeding program (and I&#39;m not talking about his private program of shagging schoolgirls). In one of his more paranoid moments he was convinced that America was going to attack China and the only defence was to breed faster than they could be killed; now, of course, they&#39;ve gone from rewarding people for having lots of kids to punishing them for having more than one.

Ain&#39;t communism grand?

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Statements like that are a bit simplistic to say the least. I&#39;m sure there are lots of poor countries that are marxist, but certainly not all. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe you could suggest a few poor capitalist nations? And by that I don&#39;t include places like Argentina which have bankrupted themselves with expensive social programs that they couldn&#39;t afford, funded with foreign money.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are also many poor nations that would very much like to be a succesfull "capitalist country", but it&#39;s just not possible.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And why isn&#39;t it possible? It&#39;s not as though it&#39;s hard to be a capitalist nation: all the government has to do is get out of the way. The vast majority of poor countries -- particularly those you mention where the government sells resources to their foreign cronies at knock-down prices -- are poor due to too much government, not too little.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In fact, I&#39;d rather say it&#39;s logic for people to look towards other political alternatives when they have experienced that capitalism certainly not is beneficial on their behalf.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Indeed: losers always turn to left-wing nonsense when they realise that they can&#39;t otherwise steal the wealth of the productive members of society.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Furthermore, there is also poverty within many capitalist societies, and to say that the poor could only blame themselves is ignorant.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

There are a small fraction of poor people who are poor purely due to bad luck: that&#39;s why we have charities to help them get back on their feet if they can&#39;t get help from their relatives and friends. Equally there are people who are rich purely due to good luck.

But the vast majority of poor people are poor because they slacked off at school, came out with no skills and then suddenly realised that flipping burgers doesn&#39;t pay too well. In the past they could make a reasonable living pulling levers and pressing buttons in factories, today the factory jobs are going, and they&#39;re not coming back.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lots of people have a disadvantage because they are not brought up in homes with resourcefull parents. And by that I mean intellectual as well as economical.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So you mean that after all those billions and billions of pounds we blow every year on tax-funded schools, they&#39;re still unable to do a remotely useful job even for those who want to learn? Doesn&#39;t sound like a good argument for giving the government total power in other areas if they screw that up so badly.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For you there is no other goal than being a succesfull capitalist or whatever you call it[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No, I just want to retire at 35 so I can do the things that really matter to me; and at the moment I&#39;d say there&#39;s a fair chance of my doing so. Unlike lefties, who often don&#39;t seem to be able to think about anything else, I&#39;m not obsessed with money...

But we all make choices: some of those choices make you rich, some make you poor... Similarly, political choices which help the productive and harm the unproductive make your society rich, and political choices which harm the productive and help the unproductive make your society poor. This is why capitalist societies are rich and communist societies are poor.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are however many societies that wish for nothing else than continuing their way of life without having to cope with oppression and indifference caused by our capitalist system. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And in a true capitalist world they&#39;d be free to buy a place and live their lives in their dull little way; whereas in a communist world I&#39;d be taken out and shot for being a troublemaker.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Try to explain the Yanomamő indians in the amazon rainforest the benefits of your way of life[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry, I&#39;ve lived in a cave, I don&#39;t plan to make a lifestyle out of it. Certainly it seems to me that the few people who believe that living in a jungle is so much better than living in a high-tech industrial society have rarely actually spent any time, like, living there themselves. Glorifying primitive tribes who live at subsistence level in the jungle is a clear sign of a society in deep decline.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">when you at the same time burn down the forest that provides their subsistence livelihood.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So persuade the government to give them the property rights to the jungle where they live, rather than sell the rights to logging companies. But really, why do you think these people should have exclusive rights to a large hunk of jungle which can much more productively be used for other things?

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are lots of societies that consider themselves to be communist in one way or another.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I was talking about the groups I&#39;ve come across in the UK. I&#39;m sure there are others around the world which don&#39;t just scrounge off the hard-working taxpayers.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You really should read the Manifest more carefully because you clearly havent understood it properly. Marx and Engels theory is not about abolishing money or property.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And then:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">True, the individual can&#39;t own property though.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So private property isn&#39;t abolished, you just can&#39;t own any? You could get a good job as a spin doctor for the Labor party.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its about owning the means of production.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And who exactly would own it? Ah, I remember, it&#39;s bad when EVIL CAPITALISTS own the means of production, but good when the Glorious People&#39;s Communist Collective own it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The money generated by working is supposed to go back to the workers themselves, not a capitalist per se whom in M & E&#39;s opinion didn&#39;t do any labour themselves.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, they just provide the jobs by paying for those means of production that the losers want to steal. You&#39;d think they might be grateful, wouldn&#39;t you?

Fortunately they no longer have to worry about being exploited by the EVIL CAPITALISTS, since the factory jobs are being sent abroad where people are grateful to have the work.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personaly I prefer the social liberalism which is based on pluralism. It takes away some of the more harmfull aspects of capitalism.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Indeed: it&#39;s awful when productive people get to make money and keep it, rather than have it siphoned off to pay for bread and circuses for the losers.

[Silencer]

STOP THE CAPISTM MACHINE&#33;

POOR LOSERS DON&#39;T GET ANYTHING
if you&#39;re going to live in american you must something that is green and called "money" if you don&#39;t have it you&#39;re dead.Back in communism all you have to do and is go to work and work for food http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[brgnorway]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Maybe you could suggest a few poor capitalist nations? And by that I don&#39;t include places like Argentina which have bankrupted themselves with expensive social programs that they couldn&#39;t afford, funded with foreign money.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


There are many nations participating in the capitalist system who are not very succesfull. A hole lot of them are situated in latin america.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
And why isn&#39;t it possible? It&#39;s not as though it&#39;s hard to be a capitalist nation: all the government has to do is get out of the way. The vast majority of poor countries -- particularly those you mention where the government sells resources to their foreign cronies at knock-down prices -- are poor due to too much government, not too little.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


The problem is not really too little or too much government. Many of these countries hardly have any government at all except from an army to make sure the dictator stays in power. Oh yes, I forgot to say that most of the foreign companies and trade partners support the very same person as well. If you fail to see the significance of this I can explain to you how it works: Corporate Fruit company buys or leases land in Honduras to produce bananas. It&#39;s cheap due to extremely low wages and almost no taxes. The only price to pay is a contribution to the landowner and the local ruling political party which accidentally happens to be corrupt. In return they provide you with guaranties against strikes and troublesome labour unions claiming better work conditions and higher wages. You as a corporate representative think this is cost effective and great even though you suspect the workers to be effectively held at gunpoint.
Prior to your engagements in Honduras you also had a little chat with some fellows in the trade department and foreign office. They ensured you that the local government received backing from your own country and thus there would be no chance of a socialist party claiming victories in the coming elections.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Indeed: losers always turn to left-wing nonsense when they realise that they can&#39;t otherwise steal the wealth of the productive members of society.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


The above mentioned statement is a good example of more noncense in this world than left-wing noncense alone.
If a whole family including the children work at a pinaple plantation somewhere in Honduras and still can&#39;t provide the nessecary means for their daily livelihood you really should ask yourself why. If they are held at gunpoint and denied any rights that rich people apply for themselves - you should ask yourself if this is called equal opportunities. And yes, in a given situation like this (which hardly is uncommon) I would say it&#39;s logic to be a little sympathetic towards left-wing ideas.
If you fail to regard these people as exploited then there is no point in arguing with you.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
But we all make choices: some of those choices make you rich, some make you poor... Similarly, political choices which help the productive and harm the unproductive make your society rich, and political choices which harm the productive and help the unproductive make your society poor. This is why capitalist societies are rich and communist societies are poor.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


I believe you are right&#33;


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Sorry, I&#39;ve lived in a cave, I don&#39;t plan to make a lifestyle out of it. Certainly it seems to me that the few people who believe that living in a jungle is so much better than living in a high-tech industrial society have rarely actually spent any time, like, living there themselves. Glorifying primitive tribes who live at subsistence level in the jungle is a clear sign of a society in deep decline.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


I believe you are being ignorant even though I have to agree that living in a cave would be awful. And like you I&#39;m not glorifying tribal life. There is no escaping the fact though that people should be able to live threir own life - a privilige that most of us take for granted. To force these people to live your way of life is just as bad as if you were forced to live their way of life. It&#39;s as simple as that&#33;

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
And in a true capitalist world they&#39;d be free to buy a place and live their lives in their dull little way....
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


How can you possibly buy an enormous jungle when you don&#39;t have any money due to the very fact that you are not participating in a monetary economy? Besides, do you really believe the powerful companies and governments would let you buy it? No, I don&#39;t think so&#33;

[brgnorway]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personaly I prefer the social liberalism which is based on pluralism. It takes away some of the more harmfull aspects of capitalism.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Indeed: it&#39;s awful when productive people get to make money and keep it, rather than have it siphoned off to pay for bread and circuses for the losers.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Even if the term "social liberalism" makes use of the word "socialism" it has nothing to do with socialism or communism for that matter. The ideas generated by social liberalists are the very foundation of modern democracy. You should do some more reading&#33;

[Shabadu]

Personally I have no problem with communism. There&#39;s nothing wrong with the ideas and all that it&#39;s a very noble cause. But unfortunately at the moment it is not a viable way of running a country. Idealism has no place in a world where morals and ethics are so low in many people. Capitalism is proof of this. I can&#39;t continue this without basically insulting the US.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Silencer @<hidden> Feb. 01 2002,01:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if you&#39;re going to live in american you must something that is green and called "money" if you don&#39;t have it you&#39;re dead.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

How many people starve to death in capitalist America? And how many Russians and Chinese starved to death under communism, or Ethiopians under their marxist government?

Food is incredibly cheap in America, and would be even cheaper without government support to keep farm prices high; if people are lacking food because they don&#39;t have money, it&#39;s because the minimum wage is too high to justify hiring them, not because of EVIL CAPITALISTS.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Back in communism all you have to do and is go to work and work for food http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So capitalism is evil because if you want to eat you have to work, whereas communism is good because if you work you get to eat? Looks like another candidate for Labor spin doctor.

[Jinef]

Look at China guys.

Most powerful military force on earth, economy that can feed the largest population of one country on earth.

And look at how Russia was so powerful and it&#39;s income inequality was so low and now because of Capitalism it&#39;s got the highest income inequality.

Some of you people sound like you&#39;re reading out of a dictionary for christ&#39;s sake "communism is about the means of production" - learn about it first them comment&#33;

[Red Oct]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @<hidden> Jan. 06 2003,17:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Look at China guys.

Most powerful military force on earth, economy that can feed the largest population of one country on earth.

And look at how Russia was so powerful and it&#39;s income inequality was so low and now because of Capitalism it&#39;s got the highest income inequality.

Some of you people sound like you&#39;re reading out of a dictionary for christ&#39;s sake "communism is about the means of production" - learn about it first them comment&#33;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
lol, mods don&#39;t really like it when old dead topics are revived.

[bn880]

Jinef, I think it&#39;s time to stop digging. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Please don&#39;t dig up fossile threads.

Closing http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif