Steel Beasts Pro PE [Archive] - Bohemia Interactive Forums

Blake

Mar 8 2006, 23:07

Being armor fan since M1 Tank Platoon, I was wondering are any other forum members which going to order Steel Beasts Pro Personal Edition - It has only somewhat less features than Steel Beasts Pro which is being used as a tank crew training tool in several armies, for example in the Finnish Defence Forces. Graphichs and realism-wise it is identical. The only downside is 125 USD price tag but what the hell, good sims are worth it in my opinion.
These great in-game videos effectively sealed my decision to order SB Pro PE (at least when I'll upgrade my video card);

http://www.eechcentral.com/files/SteelBeasts/sb_pro_pe_01.avi

http://www.eechcentral.com/files/SteelBeasts/sb_pro_pe_02.avi

http://www.eechcentral.com/files/SteelBeasts/sb_pro_pe_03.avi

Here's the official fan site:
http://www.steelbeasts.com/

Hellfish6

Mar 8 2006, 23:18

Got my copy last Saturday. It's a whole lotta fun!

Ebud

Mar 8 2006, 23:55

Hellfish talked me into ordering today http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

sander

Mar 9 2006, 13:05

Hi,

It is on my wish list, though I still need to scrape the funds together.

@<hidden>

There are some differences between the types of vehicles listed in this review of beta (http://www.simhq.com/_land/armor_011d.html) and the vehicle list of the makers (http://www.esimgames.com/sbpropageproductdetails.htm). Can you tell whether the Mercedes jeep and YPR family of vehicles have made it into the SB Pro PE or not?

Regards,

Sander

EiZei

Mar 9 2006, 13:26

Not going to buy a game that costs more than I get per month from the goverment.. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 13:39

Yes they are in there, but I'm not sure if they're crewable yet. I know I've killed a couple of the Mercedes jeeps. There are also many Australian vehicles that aren't on the list - the Leo1AS1 and ASLAV are crewable.

Blake

Mar 9 2006, 14:49

Hellfish and others, can you answer some questions as you have the game:
- How's the editor, what kind of triggers can you make with that, can you set multiple objectives and sudden enemy off-map reinforcements?
- Can you draw freely to the briefing map, like expand those markers and arrows as you wish?
- Are all maps 20kmx20km and how many maps there are?
- Can you jump into any friendly vehicle in middle of the combat?
- How do you command other friendly forces?
- What is your PC configuration and how does the game run on your machine?

Sputnik Monroe

Mar 9 2006, 15:03

I thought only the Abrams and Leopard were playable. What's the complete list of usable vehicles?

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 15:22

Quote[/b] ]- How's the editor, what kind of triggers can you make with that, can you set multiple objectives and sudden enemy off-map reinforcements?

Editor is very easy to use so far. I haven't tinkered with the triggers yet, as they're not as simple to use as OFP's. But I've played missions with multiple objectives and there is a spawn command to bring in off map reinforcements.

Quote[/b] ]- Can you draw freely to the briefing map, like expand those markers and arrows as you wish?

Not freehand drawing that I've seen. The markers and arrows can be turned on and off, but not edited on the fly. You can add new markers at any time, though, and there is a very large selection to chose from. You can also put text labels on the map at any time. I'm trying my first MP game tomorrow, so I don't know yet if this is is true in that environment.

Quote[/b] ]- Are all maps 20kmx20km and how many maps there are?

Most maps are really 80x80km, but let you select a smaller area to fight on. 20x20km is the standard and will be more than adequate for most needs, but I've made missions with maps that were 5x20 or 10x20, etc. In all I think I counted 30 completed maps with another 30 or so heightmaps for use in the map editor. Terrain varies greatly - some desert, some savannah, one map is an Italian valley, some Korean maps, some mixed terrain. All in all I've been very impressed with the selection - I just wish I could remember which maps were set in which kind of terrain.

Quote[/b] ]- Can you jump into any friendly vehicle in middle of the combat?

Yes and no. You can usually jump into a 3rd person view and give movement commands but only a few vehicles are crewable and player-functional. I can jump into tanks of another platoon or company and do anything, but I can't jump into a Marder and fire the cannon. You can, however, command a bridgelayer and manually deploy the bridge - which is fun.

Quote[/b] ]- How do you command other friendly forces?

Give them waypoints and orders on the map screen. Waypoints work much the same as they do in OFP. I had no trouble learning how to use them.

Quote[/b] ]- What is your PC configuration and how does the game run on your machine?

Athlon 64 3200 with a gig of RAM and a crappy FX5600 video card. I have no trouble running the game - FPS averages around 20 and everything looks great. I don't remember exact settings I have, but by and large my game looks exactly like the vids show.

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 15:24

I thought only the Abrams and Leopard were playable. What's the complete list of usable vehicles?
M1A1(HA), M2A2 Bradley, Leo1A5DK, Leo1AS1, ASLAV-25, ASLAV-PC, Leo2A4, Leo2A5DK, M113, HMMWV w/50cal, FIST-V, and maybe one or two I'm forgetting are all fully playable. Most everything else has some interactivity. The CV9040C is supposed to come out this summer.

Blake

Mar 9 2006, 17:22

Thanks, Hellfish. I really appreciate the info you gave. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 17:29

No problem. If you have any other questions or want screenshots of anything in particular, let me know.

GoOB

Mar 9 2006, 18:01

No problem. If you have any other questions or want screenshots of anything in particular, let me know.
Just show us some screenshots! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

Man, this sounds like great fun! Although, quite a bit of dough!

Blake

Mar 9 2006, 18:44

Couple of Leo1 interor/exterior shots would be nice and some savannah and italian terrain for sure http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

King Homer

Mar 9 2006, 21:23

How to purchase the game without credit card?

It's not very common that younger people have credit cards here in Germany http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
But I'd like to play that game too, me as tank fan http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

HotShot

Mar 9 2006, 21:24

Ebud

Mar 9 2006, 21:31

Not going to buy a game that costs more than I get per month from the goverment.. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif
well it's just a hair more than the price of 2 games, and I've bought 2-3 games over the last year that lasted about a month or so, so really it's worth the money for me. It really depends on what you put into it. I think of how much I spent on OFP, about $30, and I've got a good 5 years from it. I'm sure this sim will last me at least 1/2 that long, so again, for me I'll get more than my money's worth.

Ebud

Mar 9 2006, 21:32

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 22:05

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_52_33.jpg

Leo1A5DK in Italy

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_52_10.jpg

Italian hills

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums...._54.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_51_54.jpg)

Italy

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_39_25.jpg

Leo1AS1 in savannah

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 22:05

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums...._54.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_39_54.jpg)

Leo1AS1 with mineplow

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums...._00.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_43_00.jpg)

Leo1AS1 with mineplow in breaching mode

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_41_38.jpg

Leo1AS1 Primary Gunsight

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_41_45.jpg

Leo1AS1 auxilliary gunsight

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_43_46.jpg

105mm going downrange

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 22:06

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums...._04.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_37_04.jpg)

Map selection screen. You select the larger map then adjust the black box to pick the specific terrain you want to fight on. This screen shows only a small area of the entire map.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/keenedder/SBProPE/SS_17_39_39.jpg

How you command your units - the orders menu

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 22:12

How big are the maps?
I watched the video and it looks great. The vehicle models and terrain looks better than Flashpoint, but troop animations and when vehicles are destroyed looks abit crap.
The inside of tank looks more like a sim than Flashpoint in that you click to places you want to look at, but apart from the infrared and independant MG on top it looks like nothing that Flashpoint doesnt have (thats just going from the videos and website though).
It's a tank sim that has infantry. OFP is an infantry sim that has tanks. The two can only really be compared in the fact that they are military sims. The focus is different.
That, and eSim said that their next major priority is to redo the infantry. They'll get 3D models, new animations and improved algorithms to use cover and buildings better (so you'll see infantry in buildings and they'll be harder to kill).

Ditto on Ebud with the price tag. I paid $50 for Battlefield 2, played it for about a month and dumped it. That was a waste of money. I paid $125 for this and I guarantee it will last a lot longer than BF2 did.

Oh, and also, SBProPE doesn't use a hitpoint system like OFP which makes vehicles FAR more realistic in their behaviour and effects.

ebns72

Mar 9 2006, 22:13

looks like a very cool sim http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Good lord I wish we could have terrain like that in flashpoint.

Blake

Mar 9 2006, 22:29

Damn that looks great, awesome shots. Can't wait to get the game!

How's the mine damage, do you get cut track once you hit a mine and is that modelled in the 3D model too? Hows 120mm Rheimetall with Sabot, is hitting T-72 at any distance a virtually guaranteed kill or have you had instances or requiring something like 3 shots to kill it (if you hit in a less vulnerable place for instance). How's the performance against T-80?
How's the efficiency on 105mm gun?

Hellfish6

Mar 9 2006, 22:56

Quote[/b] ]How's the mine damage, do you get cut track once you hit a mine and is that modelled in the 3D model too?

I haven't hit a mine yet, and I haven't seen any enemy vehicles live long enough to reach minefields either. I'll try it out and let you know. But damage is not modelled in 3D, save for the occasional catastrophic explosion knocking off a turret.

Quote[/b] ]Hows 120mm Rheimetall with Sabot, is hitting T-72 at any distance a virtually guaranteed kill or have you had instances or requiring something like 3 shots to kill it (if you hit in a less vulnerable place for instance).

It all depends on where you hit it. I've noticed that engine hits are almost always kills - frontal shots are usually kills and suprisingly side shots aren't often kills. I usually aim for the gun mantlet or turret ring when I'm gunning and facing a T72 head on. Most of my side hits aren't kills, I think, because I have trouble tracking targets that move perpendicular or diagonally to me, so I think I usually end up hitting a wheel or track or something non-critical on the sides.

Last night I fired three rounds into a BMP1 before I got a kill - partly because I was firing APFSDS and partly because most of my rounds hit in the troop compartment and passed right through. Engine and turret hits are almost always kills.

Quote[/b] ]How's the performance against T-80?

Not too hard to kill T80s, but they are mean if they shoot at you. Very good fire control systems. Oh, and in the mission editor you can change ammo loadouts, so you can give T80s BM13 steel ammo instead of later tungsten or DU rounds if you want. For infantry you can give them RPGs or ATGMs of many varieties.

Quote[/b] ]How's the efficiency on 105mm gun?

Most difficult thing about the 105 is the fire control system, especially for the AS1. Penetration isn't great, but within 1500m you're probably ok. I had a Leo1 take out an Abrams frontally at 200m.

MechaStalin

Mar 10 2006, 02:24

Is it possible to command the BRDM-2's in any way?

Hellfish6

Mar 10 2006, 03:14

You can give them orders, but not crew them. I think you can steer them, though.

sander

Mar 10 2006, 08:17

Thanks for the answer.

Can the game be modified and if so, in what manners? For example, would it only be possible to replace the Danish 2 colour camouflage pattern on the Leopard2A5 to the three colour camouflage used by the German and Dutch armies or would it be possible to define another vehicle with such a new skin?

Regards,

Sander

Hellfish6

Mar 10 2006, 12:40

Yes, you can modify textures. I've seen some Leo2s with WWII style Afrika Korps desert camo, for example. Just can't change model or configs, I think.

Blake

Mar 11 2006, 15:15

How's the AI? Does it launch smoke grenades for cover?
Do BMP-1s and 2s use missles also in addition to their main guns, do some more thinly armored enemy vehicles flee when faced with heavy armor?

Hellfish6

Mar 11 2006, 15:50

Yes, smoke grenades are used - usually when a vehicle is hit and still under fire. And yes, the BMPs fire missiles.

Ares1978

Mar 11 2006, 16:08

Oh, I remember the massive battles in the original game.. Has much changed since then, or are the controls and features about the same as before?

It's a real shame that only western tanks are (truly) playable. Still, I'm prepared to pay for this game.

Hellfish6

Mar 11 2006, 16:12

I never played SB1, only the demo. But yes, I've fought some large battles (company to battalion sized). And eSim has plans to make some of the Russian vehicles crewable but I don't know how high their priority is. They also said they had plans to include more Russian/Chinese gear, like T-55s, -62s, BMP3s, etc.

Average Joe

Mar 12 2006, 18:40

Just seen afew videos of this game in action and must say i was damn impressed by it, the style looked like the game "enemy in sights", and the nightvision scopes and thermals looked ace http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

However the tank destruction effects didnt raise any eyebrows http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

JdB

Mar 12 2006, 20:22

Espectro

Mar 12 2006, 21:31

EiZei

Mar 13 2006, 08:02

Is multiplayer available?
Considering it's meant to train tankers i'd say yes. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Ebud

Mar 13 2006, 14:59

OK, I finally got bored replaying the training missions over and over so I tried a couple of the combat missions.

Wow... just simply amazing. I just feels like the first time I played OFP.

I never played a modern tank sim before this. OFP/VBS don't really count. Incredibly hard at first, but man o' man this sim is really nice.

The damage effects do not bother me in the slightest. You still get tanks cooking off ammo, turrets flying in the air occasionally, etc. I personally like the 4.5km viewdistance, extremely fluid framerates and realism over eyecandy.

The soldiers are 2d sprites, but at anything over 200m you don't notice that playing the game. In screenshots yes, stressed out trying to take out a moving apc at 1500m with infantry nearby you don't notice they are that low res.

Hellfish6

Mar 13 2006, 15:08

Just seen afew videos of this game in action

However the tank destruction effects didnt raise any eyebrows http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
That is because it is not a game but a military simulator released in a Personal Edition, similar to what was done to VBS1.
Still, they could have made a couple animations.

Same with infantry... They look like symbols being moved on screen :/ - I realise its a sim, but so little could make it look so much more polished http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

I love the way you move around in the tanks though... What positions are crewable in the tanks? Gunner, driver, loader and commander?

Is multiplayer available?
I disagree about the animations. Everything is perfectly functional, and unless you're making a movie of the game that's all that's needed. I'm glad the devs concentrated on making a non-buggy, realistic, crash-free and engrossing sim instead of more animations. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Infantry, as I mentioned, are getting a major overhaul in a couple months, probably right after the CV9040C gets released. And yes, there is multiplayer.

Cozza

Mar 14 2006, 08:43

This looks like a great sim. I loved M1 Tank platoon 2.

Can you use the commander .50 cal or is it just for show ?

I plan on buying this but I just spent some cash on a piss-up.

Hellfish6

Mar 14 2006, 12:49

You can use the .50 cal. It's actually very useful too - it has no problem taking out BMPs, MTLBs or BTRs (or M113s for that matter)

Cozza

Mar 15 2006, 05:34

kool. I like tanks sims so I cant wait till I get the money.

Btw anyone wondering how I'm going to buy it I'm gonna with my dads Amex http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Edge

Mar 17 2006, 15:16

I really like the way landscape is represented in this sim... Once I'll have money, this "game" is mine. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

May some happy owner tell us how does destruction of buildings look like in SBP?

Hellfish6

Mar 17 2006, 16:00

I know they catch on fire, but I haven't noticed if they do any kind of destruction sequence. I'll fire a couple rounds into a building tonite and let you know how it goes. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

deanosbeano

Mar 17 2006, 17:56

omg , i been waiting for a sim like this since m1 abrahams on the sega http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif. whats the mp comunity like ? is there one ? any euro servers ?. and last but not least where i buy it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif ?

Hellfish6

Mar 17 2006, 18:03

www.esimgames.com to buy

www.steelbeasts.com to check out the community. Most weekends you should be able to find a game pretty easily.

EiZei

Mar 17 2006, 18:07

And if you cant afford to dish out the 125 USD you can get steel beasts 1 gold from ebay for less than 10 euros like I did. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

gunterlund

Mar 17 2006, 18:48

EiZei

Mar 17 2006, 19:05

Based on the movies Ive seen of SB PRo it looks like the gameplay is virtually identical to the old SB Gold. Other than improved terrain graphics and tank internals what is so different to compell me to pay $125. Thanks for the update.
Have'nt played it myself but having a resolution better than 640x480 would make quite a difference alone. There's also more improved minefields, obstacles, support, terrain and of course more controllable vehicles.

Im currently waiting for someone to get bored enough with SB pro PE and then buy it for say.. 90 dollars.

Hellfish6

Mar 17 2006, 19:34

Based on the movies Ive seen of SB PRo it looks like the gameplay is virtually identical to the old SB Gold. Other than improved terrain graphics and tank internals what is so different to compell me to pay $125. Thanks for the update.
If you don't think you want it now, my suggestion is don't buy it. I'm a big fan of all armored vehicles, so $125 is money well spent for me. If you're just a casual fan or looking for less than a brutally difficult game, save your money for SB2. Honestly, if you can't justify buying it now, after seeing the screenshots and movies, don't buy it. You'll probably regret it.

Same for VBS - these are not priced for casual gamers. If the only game you play is OFP or Steel Beasts and almost nothing else, then these sims are right up your alley. If you like to spend a lot of time with a lot of games, then you should probably wait.

For me, OFP and M1 Tank Platoon 2 are my all time favorite games. Hence, I could justify VBS and Steel Beasts because I hardly play anything else (save, maybe Falcon 4 and the odd game of Day of Defeat). If someone was to come out with a brilliant version of something like Command & Conquer that could have everything you ever wanted in it for $150, I'd pass because thats not my kind of game. Same for something like Battlefield 2 - if there was a superdeluxe $200 version I'd still pass on it. The pricetag should not tempt you if you're a casual gamer and it should not bother you if you're a genre-specific gamer.

Blake

Mar 17 2006, 20:55

My SB Pro PE arrived yesterday and it is definately worth the investement. The terrain is big 20kmx20km section which you select from a map of 80kmx80km and there are plenty of those big accurate satellite-based IRL terrains to select from. The editor is great and offers quite a lot of possible scenarios and other stuff for the designer. There are lots of vehicles of which not nearly all are fully simulated, but of those done fully the M2A2 Bradley for example is great fun and requires different approach than main battle tanks. I'm just simply saying if you liked first SB or have interest in modern armor this is a definite have, the command of platoons in the map also plays like a realistic RTS in itself. The replay in 3d is great fun as it shows exactly who shot who and where and what damage it caused with great detail.

Well these are just shortly my first impressions scratching the surface for good deal of hours but this game definately has longevity and value for money more than I expected. If you are familiar with SB then you learn this pretty quickly but it is definately more than graphics update, its completely new experience and very very immersive.

I put some yesterday's shots and videos here:
http://kyllikki.fi/temp/sb/

My rig is 2600XP with 1024MB and Radeon 9600 and the game runs pretty well on 1024x768 32bit with the high detail settings. So no fears of the power-hog that T-72 BoF was.

Hellfish6

Mar 17 2006, 21:07

Cool! Glad you got it. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

King Homer

Mar 17 2006, 21:37

Well, I'm a big tank fan and I like to buy it but I don't have a credit card neither anyone of my family has. It's a shame they don't have any other payment options to chose. The 100 Euros are waiting in my pocket.

Scrub

Mar 23 2006, 02:21

Nice combat and gfx/sound details! (I still think ArmA is going to wipe the floor with it though, maybe not in the details, but the general capability) http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif

Blake

Mar 23 2006, 05:21

It's possible to order SB Pro PE without credit card from for example here: http://www.okaysoft.de/sbp.htm
They put some extra fees in it think, check terms of payment and delivery first...

Edge

Mar 23 2006, 08:49

... I still think ArmA is going to wipe the floor with it though, maybe not in the details, but the general capability)
I doubt that graphically enhanced "game" will beat the specialized "simulator" on its field. Not to mention the different focus of both softwares - SB are about armor, AA will be again about infantry...

Hellfish, any news on buildings destruction? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

EiZei

Mar 23 2006, 09:02

Comparing this and ArmA is pretty much like comparing BF2 and OFP. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

King Homer

Mar 23 2006, 09:35

It's possible to order SB Pro PE without credit card from for example here: http://www.okaysoft.de/sbp.htm
They put some extra fees in it think, check terms of payment and delivery first...
Thanks, gonna order it from there when it is available.

Hellfish6

Mar 23 2006, 12:03

Hellfish, any news on buildings destruction? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Nope - they don't break into happy little pieces.

MechaStalin

Mar 23 2006, 16:44

EiZei

Mar 28 2006, 10:05

After receiving a fair amount of money because of my birthday I decided to order steel beasts pro PE. It better be good at 105 euros damnit. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

J3aLeiNe

Nov 3 2011, 14:30

Hello all,
sorry for the "little" bump but it's a just cause : a big update for this great tank simulation :

http://www.youtube.com/user/eSimGamesDtl#p/a

A few links for the 2.6 incoming on December :

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3415875/SB_Pro_PE_2_620_The_Beta_Exper.html#Post3415875

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/sbgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=16922

And just for rappel, the official site :

http://www.esimgames.com/

Sorry for my poor english, have a good day.

Tonci87

Nov 3 2011, 17:12

If only the graphics weren´t THAT bad...

NodUnit

Nov 3 2011, 17:19

That's truest form of simulation for ya.

Call me wierd but I prefer that style over what we have in most games these days..the overuse in shaders and shiny makes things look more fake than real, real military vehicles hardly cast any specular lighting especially ground.

Tonci87

Nov 3 2011, 17:34

DMarkwick

Nov 3 2011, 17:41

While that is true, the graphics in Steel Beasts are really outdated. Its like they are still in 2001

My impression from reading about it way back is that it's a form of hi-brow nerd-rage :) good graphics compromises the fidelity of the simulation i.e. wasted development time.

kotov12345

Nov 3 2011, 18:56

even with such graphic game much more realistic than arma I remember my battles with
150 vs 150 tanks :)

[GR]Operative

Nov 3 2011, 20:00

After watching some gameplay footage, I think I liked what I saw. I see the outdated graphics (mainly in the water and in the infantry), but I would easily overcome it I think.
Just a question, I see MBTs, APCs and IFVs, but are there self propelled artillery and self propelled anti aircraft weapons (present in the game world, not away from sight/map)?

Tonci87

Nov 3 2011, 20:03

How good is the AI?

NodUnit

Nov 3 2011, 20:07

Triple A? Well shilka seems to be present..
http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/sbgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=16970
http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/sbgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=16973

[GR]Operative

Nov 3 2011, 20:28

Nice gallery, will take some time to see every detail each picture contains...

I asked about the artillery because I'm really addicted to it (yeah, kind obcessive, as I will never join the army). I'm researching and trying to understand every bit of it. Would be nice (to me, of course) to see it represented in such a detailed simulator.

Cripsis

Nov 4 2011, 08:22

After receiving a fair amount of money because of my birthday I decided to order steel beasts pro PE. It better be good at 105 euros damnit. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

Infantry simulation is it's weakness, but for armoured warfare simulation it's astonishingly realistic. I no longer play it because I lost the dongle when I moved house but I do remember that the graphics menu was kind of hard to find, in fact I played for several months before I even realised that there was a graphics menu! The game looks surprisingly good when graphics are at the highest settings.
Please post your opinion of the game after you play it for a few days.

J3aLeiNe

Nov 4 2011, 11:07

Hello,

a new video on the official forum :

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=200580&postcount=105

It's a "pro" simulation, not a "nextgen - AAA - console" game. :o

NoRailgunner

Nov 4 2011, 11:13

Indeed things change glacially in the SB PRO world. :ghostface:

metalcraze

Nov 4 2011, 11:36

Are such updates for SB Pro PE free? Seeing how it already costs too much

Cripsis

Nov 23 2011, 01:06

Over 40 tanks and armored vehicles in “Steel Beasts” to be overhauled with realistic artificial intelligence from xaitment.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/80093/Over_40_tanks_and_armored_vehicles_in_ldquoSteelBeastsrdquo_to_be_overhauled_with_realistic_artificialintelligence_from_xaitment.php

Tonci87

Nov 23 2011, 12:07

I so hope that we get xaitment for Arma 3!

[GR]Operative

Nov 23 2011, 16:33

Xaitment apparently own the whole AI pathfinding thing :rolleyes:

Tonci87

Nov 23 2011, 22:10

Yeah, because they are good at it!

NoRailgunner

Dec 12 2011, 18:55

Version 2.640 of Steel Beasts Pro PE is now available!
http://www.esimgames.com/

Tonci87

Dec 12 2011, 19:20

OMG, they want 25$ for an upgrade? The game itself costs already 100$

Beagle

Dec 12 2011, 20:20

OMG, they want 25$ for an upgrade? The game itself costs already 100$That's the ED way of life. One company has learned from the other.

metalcraze

Dec 14 2011, 10:43

$25 for bug fixes and a few models.

SWEET

Not going to buy now.

norrin

Dec 14 2011, 23:23

I'm not really sure why people keep quibbling about having to pay small sums of money for updates and bug fixes. These things take time and in a lot of cases considerable amounts of time - surely that's worth something, don't forget that these guys have got to eat too.

If you don't want it or you feel its not worth it why bother complaining. There are heaps of user made free skins etc available that improve the look and feel of the game so why shouldn't core upgrades that improve in-game features and functionality cost something and before you start spouting that BIS provides the same service for free - think about how many times you've paid for upgrades to the Real Virtuality Engine over the last 10 or so years.

I for one am enjoying the crewable T72 and the game works beautifully with Nvida 3D Vision.

Beagle

Dec 15 2011, 00:14

[QUOTE=norrin;2072388]- think about how many times you've paid for upgrades to the Real Virtuality Engine over the last 10 or so years.

[QUOTE]3 times: OPF GotY Edition , Armed Assault Gold, ArmA X. I can't remeber having having payed for patches and additional models in patches for any BIS game.

norrin

Dec 15 2011, 00:33

Good on you Beagle you're totally missing the point. I could say I've only just bought Steel Beasts so I've only payed for it once with that kind of logic.

Here we go:

OFP, Red Hammer, Resistance, ArmA, Queen's Gambit, ArmA2, OA, BAF and PMC.

In some cases I've bought several copies of each for developmental purposes.

I haven't even mentioned my VBS1 and VBS2 licenses.

I shouldn't have bothered opening my mouth in the first place :icon_sad:

NodUnit

Dec 15 2011, 00:46

So you are looking at the new content as an expansion?..depending on what it adds, that would be a possibility.

Max Power

Dec 15 2011, 01:00

To fix bugs in a game is one thing.

To fix them in a simulator where the behaviour has to match real world data is another. I'd imagine working with something as complex as a computer game with the constraints of millimetric precision is like trying to embark on a climbing wall with your hands and legs bound together. All of these vast possibilities for lateral thinking and problem solving are now narrowed down to what is within your considerably restricted project constraints... Not to mention that everything that changes must be play tested and compared to occult performance data. AND they can't release anything half working because of the demands of the sim community. Now we've gone from changing some values and seeing what it's like to passing it down through several testers and experts with an encyclopedia open. I think the cost of making such advanced simulations must be ridiculous.

norrin

Dec 15 2011, 01:11

This update goes well beyond simple bug fixes, if you're interested check this out: http://www.steelbeasts.com/updates/SBProPE_2-640_Release_Notes.pdf

As you can see there's quite a lot that's been added.

Don't get me wrong if BIS included highly detailed vehicle interiors and accurate/functional weapons systems I'd have no reason to fire up SB's again. At the moment, unfortunately, I'm stuck with SB's for my modern day tank fix.

DMarkwick

Dec 15 2011, 11:44

I enjoyed the original SB a lot. My feeling is however that regardless of the technical achievements of SBPro, it needs to look better IMO. A realistic look is more than eye-candy in a sim of this nature, plus it's a big investment. It needs to really look good for me to shell out that much for it, that makes me sound a little shallow but better graphics would be the tipping point for me for sure.

A bit like OFP, would I have bought ArmA2 if it was still stuck with OFP graphics, at a few hundred pounds? Well, OK maybe I would :D but that's because it would have the fidelity that SBPro has, but for OFP which has more aspects to it.

I mean, maybe one day I will shell out for SBPro, the odds are good that I would.

metalcraze

Dec 15 2011, 12:06

I'm not really sure why people keep quibbling about having to pay small sums of money for updates and bug fixes. These things take time and in a lot of cases considerable amounts of time - surely that's worth something, don't forget that these guys have got to eat too.

So they ask first $125 for free? Why won't they make a paid monthly subscription for patches to the bugs their product comes with and be done with it?

I mean fixing bugs they are at fault for takes time lol you gotta pay them for fixing something they broke
A plumber breaks you a pipe and hot water starts flooding your kitchen you gotta pay him to fix it bro

And no "2 vehicle interior DLC for just $24.99" doesn't cut it.
A bunch of modders add and fix more in Falcon 4 for free in a year than eSim in 2 while asking money close to a full expansion price for it.

Keep defending man, just don't wonder why even game studios like Paradox charge you $20 for patches (which they call expansions for some reason even though they only tweak balance apart from some bugfixes and a different menu wallpaper)

DMarkwick

Dec 15 2011, 13:39

And no "2 vehicle interior DLC for just $24.99" doesn't cut it.

That's just your opinion. For people who rather obviously have a more-than-average deep interest in such things, it is. You or I might not, but then SBPro quite clearly is not aimed at us.

NodUnit

Dec 15 2011, 20:47

Given the interaction and what you can do with it I'd buy it, it would pretty much be like buying an expansion that gives you two new tanks, not sure what problem.

Max Power

Dec 15 2011, 20:57

So they ask first $125 for free? Why won't they make a paid monthly subscription for patches to the bugs their product comes with and be done with it?

I mean fixing bugs they are at fault for takes time lol you gotta pay them for fixing something they broke
A plumber breaks you a pipe and hot water starts flooding your kitchen you gotta pay him to fix it bro

And no "2 vehicle interior DLC for just $24.99" doesn't cut it.
A bunch of modders add and fix more in Falcon 4 for free in a year than eSim in 2 while asking money close to a full expansion price for it.

Keep defending man, just don't wonder why even game studios like Paradox charge you $20 for patches (which they call expansions for some reason even though they only tweak balance apart from some bugfixes and a different menu wallpaper)

I guess the alternative is that this development doesn't exist, at least not for the pc consumer.

norrin

Dec 15 2011, 22:11

@<hidden> – They’re slowly dragging the graphics into the 21st Century mate but still much of it is “like so last millennium”.
http://www.norrin.org/images/SBPro/Leo2a4.JPG

http://www.norrin.org/images/SBPro/Leo2a5.JPG

But this is the reason why we play.
http://www.norrin.org/images/SBPro/LeoInt.jpg

http://www.norrin.org/images/SBPro/centauroInt.jpg

@<hidden> – If you feel that a small group of people with an extremely limited market, doing highly specialised work for 15 or 16 months as their sole source of income deserve absolutely no remuneration then we’re going to have to agree to disagree I’m afraid.

Oh and this has been e-Sims financial model for some time now - in between version patches - free, what they consider major updates - paid.

Hopefully one day, people will come to realise that not everyone else on the planet was put there for their own satisfaction.

MrBump

Dec 16 2011, 04:08

@<hidden> – If you feel that a small group of people with an extremely limited market, doing highly specialised work for 15 or 16 months as their sole source of income deserve absolutely no remuneration then we’re going to have to agree to disagree I’m afraid.

Oh and this has been e-Sims financial model for some time now - in between version patches - free, what they consider major updates - paid.

Hopefully one day, people will come to realise that not everyone else on the planet was put there for their own satisfaction.

Most of Steel Beasts Pro PE development income comes from military contracts, the upgrade charges are for tanks that those military clients won't pay for but add depth to the sim, like the T-55, Challanger etc. One day the tanks might even have shadows and moving road wheels, here's to that day.

The thing I never liked about esim is their adversion to allowing modding, I remember reading a comment from Ssnake few years ago (before Arma was released) saying that he thought BIS would have regretted adding mod support to Operation Flashpoint as it drove military business from them...

Max Power

Dec 16 2011, 04:56

On the other hand, it would be a shame to have SB ruined like il2 1946.

metalcraze

Dec 16 2011, 07:23

@<hidden> – If you feel that a small group of people with an extremely limited market, doing highly specialised work for 15 or 16 months as their sole source of income deserve absolutely no remuneration then we’re going to have to agree to disagree I’m afraid.
If by an extremely limited market you mean real world armies that pour millions into training tools, which SB Pro is, then sure.

I gave an example of what community does for another hardcore sim for free (that includes adding new airplanes with fully modeled and clickable 3D cockpits) and here we have a light version of a military budget-backed sim.

They already ask a hundred bucks for this (excluding what military already paid them to do these vehicles). And it keeps selling. And then they ask $25 for two cockpits and bugfixes. It's as if BIS was to cut out half of the content from BAF apart from cutting out a campaign and missions, slapped it into 1.60 and then asked $25 for the package including the patch.
See now? The cockpits themselves are not the problem, to get further free patches (did I just write free patch?) you need to pay $25 first.

Hopefully one day, people will come to realise that not everyone else on the planet was put there for their own satisfaction.
Of course. Games are made only for developers themselves, which are to receive satisfaction from getting moneys.

For the past few years I've noticed that hardcore sim and wargame communities really like to be ripped off - and people complain that Epic Games asks them $5 for a bunch of recoloured skins for weapons in Gears of War 3.

Dec 16 2011, 07:41

For the past few years I've noticed that hardcore sim and wargame communities really like to be ripped off

Much as I hate to buy into the hyperbole, I really have to agree. If you want the complete set of RailWorks (or whatever the hell its latest incarnation is called, the one with shadows on the trains - ooooh) you'll have to shell out at least 1300 euros (rough calc)

norrin

Dec 16 2011, 08:20

If by an extremely limited market you mean real world armies that pour millions into training tools, which SB Pro is, then sure.

They are under no obligation to provide it to the general public and that in itself generates a cost for them. At the very least they have to create a public build of the latest Mil Sim version, update licensing keys, provide documentation and host the files. For the public version the market is relatively tiny compared to other games that already have a narrow market base such as ArmA.

I gave an example of what community does for another hardcore sim for free (that includes adding new airplanes with fully modeled and clickable 3D cockpits) and here we have a light version of a military budget-backed sim.

If I remember rightly its not that long ago that a group of modders from that community created a company called Lead Pursuit, put together a freely available number of mods and sold an updated version as F4 Allied Force. They had licensing costs as they had to pay Atari for the honour so in my mind that was justifiable. As for Free Falcon, its like ArmA, as long as people don't charge for content no one can be accused of infringing upon copyright or making money from someone elses IP. It's in the communities best interests to keep it that way. Imagine what would happen if I started charging people for scripts or addons, not only would there be an enormous community backlash but no doubt BIS would be on the blower demanding their cut.

For the past few years I've noticed that hardcore sim and wargame communities really like to be ripped off - and people complain that Epic Games asks them $5 for a bunch of recoloured skins for weapons in Gears of War 3.
I guess many "hardcore" simmers are like me, they are at a stage of life where $25 doesn't seem like a great deal to them. That's less than a round of drinks at the pub, which are gone within 5 or 10 minutes, what's the better value I ask (though I do like a drink :)).

Another issue is that there are so few companies today that are willing to pander to this select group of nutters and provide intelligent non-mainstream games or sims or whatever you want to call them.

If we weren't so starved for choice then maybe I'd feel differently but I'm happy to pay, if it means these guys can stay in business and continue providing their wares to the not so general public.

But each to his own.

metalcraze

Dec 16 2011, 08:59

They are under no obligation to provide it to the general public and that in itself generates a cost for them. At the very least they have to create a public build of the latest Mil Sim version, update licensing keys, provide documentation and host the files.

It isn't like they don't ask the price of two blockbuster games for it.

For the public version the market is relatively tiny compared to other games that already have a narrow market base such as ArmA.

Games which ask $50-$60 are developed from scratch over years, here eSim asks $105-125 for a game where all they have to do is cutting stuff out. SB Pro PE to SB Pro is what ArmA2 Free is to ArmA2.

If they cared about how many copies they sell they wouldn't be asking such price for a niche game which in turn is a butchered version of a real product which is their biggest source of income for a mere development of which they get millions.

If I remember rightly its not that long ago that a group of modders from that community created a company called Lead Pursuit, put together a freely available number of mods and sold an updated version as F4 Allied Force. They had licensing costs as they had to pay Atari for the honour so in my mind that was justifiable. As for Free Falcon, its like ArmA, as long as people don't charge for content no one can be accused of infringing upon copyright or making money from someone elses IP. It's in the communities best interests to keep it that way. Imagine what would happen if I started charging people for scripts or addons, not only would there be an enormous community backlash but no doubt BIS would be on the blower demanding their cut.

The point is that unlike eSim - modders don't get anything (apart from some donations and maybe a jpeg medal) for their work. And yet they spend years developing, changing, upgrading.

Another issue is that there are so few companies today that are willing to pander to this select group of nutters and provide intelligent non-mainstream games or sims or whatever you want to call them.

If we weren't so starved for choice then maybe I'd feel differently but I'm happy to pay, if it means these guys can stay in business and continue providing their wares to the not so general public.

You really underestimate how much money devs developing military software get. Civilian versions are just an additional source of income to them (if the dev cares only about money) or are simply for the fun of it (which is the case with Sonalysts which mostly develop sonars and software for them for subs and as I see it so far - BIS too)

The only question is if it's profitable enough to hold a civilian branch. With BIS it's understandable - VBS and ArmA are separate products with separate development teams and even engine branches. SB Pro PE is just SB Pro without a lot of cool stuff.

NodUnit

Dec 16 2011, 09:25

Most of Steel Beasts Pro PE development income comes from military contracts, the upgrade charges are for tanks that those military clients won't pay for but add depth to the sim, like the T-55, Challanger etc. One day the tanks might even have shadows and moving road wheels, here's to that day.

The thing I never liked about esim is their adversion to allowing modding, I remember reading a comment from Ssnake few years ago (before Arma was released) saying that he thought BIS would have regretted adding mod support to Operation Flashpoint as it drove military business from them...

Tradeoff is they got a very lively community with diverse tastes and goals, not to mention an adoringly rabid fanbase. Besides, the DLC supposedly sold quite well despite there being mods that 'did similar things' so obviously having modding doesn't greatly impede income, and it greatly influences the growth and positivity of the game on a more concrete standpoint rather than "the next big thing"..I just wish more companies would realize that.

By the way, could you give some examples of how SB pro PE (theres a mouth full) differes from SB pro?

MrBump

Dec 16 2011, 09:27

On the other hand, it would be a shame to have SB ruined like il2 1946.

IL2 1946 was ruined (for some) by being cracked for modding, not because the developer supported modding, which they didn't.

DMarkwick

Dec 16 2011, 10:45

It isn't like they don't ask the price of two blockbuster games for it.

Games which ask $50-$60 are developed from scratch over years, here eSim asks $105-125 for a game where all they have to do is cutting stuff out. SB Pro PE to SB Pro is what ArmA2 Free is to ArmA2.

If they cared about how many copies they sell they wouldn't be asking such price for a niche game which in turn is a butchered version of a real product which is their biggest source of income for a mere development of which they get millions.

The point is that unlike eSim - modders don't get anything (apart from some donations and maybe a jpeg medal) for their work. And yet they spend years developing, changing, upgrading.

You really underestimate how much money devs developing military software get. Civilian versions are just an additional source of income to them (if the dev cares only about money) or are simply for the fun of it (which is the case with Sonalysts which mostly develop sonars and software for them for subs and as I see it so far - BIS too)

The only question is if it's profitable enough to hold a civilian branch. With BIS it's understandable - VBS and ArmA are separate products with separate development teams and even engine branches. SB Pro PE is just SB Pro without a lot of cool stuff.

Metalcraze, your simplistic reasonings and assumptions are doing you no favours :) I can understand your aversion to patches that you have to pay for, you really don't need to bulk it out with other reasons. Particularly when those other reasons are rather obviously based on assumption and even worse, illogical comparison to a different situation.

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

The thing I never liked about esim is their adversion to allowing modding, I remember reading a comment from Ssnake few years ago (before Arma was released) saying that he thought BIS would have regretted adding mod support to Operation Flashpoint as it drove military business from them...

Indeed, I guess Ssnake doesn't know about the value of a separate, fully supported, set-in-concrete stable platform :D

@<hidden> – They’re slowly dragging the graphics into the 21st Century mate but still much of it is “like so last millennium”.

Looking better.... but not there yet :) thanks for the images.

MrBump

Dec 16 2011, 10:47

I have to say that when Ssnake announced they were to do paid updates he was very upfront about the reasons for it, and the community was mostly understanding. I don't think the sim earns that much from military contracts, mainly because they don't have the US market.

Max Power

Dec 16 2011, 10:50

IL2 1946 was ruined (for some) by being cracked for modding, not because the developer supported modding, which they didn't.

Nope. Around in my neck of the woods it wasn't until they opened it up for modding that everyone stopped playing.

MrBump

Dec 16 2011, 11:40

Nope. Around in my neck of the woods it wasn't until they opened it up for modding that everyone stopped playing.

What do you mean by 'until they opened it up'? Unless it's changed recently, the only modification authorised and allowed by Oleg were the patches released by the Daidalos Team starting in 2010 and that was only because the devs no longer supported the game.

Max Power

Dec 16 2011, 18:53

There was a point where the forum all of a sudden started allowing modding talk and mods started appearing out of the wood work. There was some talk on the squad sites about the game becoming more moddable all of a sudden. I played that game for years, and there was a very rapid change. If it wasn't made possible in a patch, I don't know what happened, but it was sudden.

Hellfire257

Dec 16 2011, 21:23

The game essentially was "cracked" to allow modding. I always enjoyed the mods more if I'm honest. Zuti's MDS really changed how I played '46, especially coops.

James McKenzie-Smith

Dec 17 2011, 23:57

$25 for bug fixes and a few models.

SWEET

Not going to buy now.

http://esimgames.com/purchase.htm

A new license for SB Pro PE v2.640 costs $100. The $25 upgrade is for owners of previous versions.

Vexter

Dec 25 2011, 13:33

it's far more than just bug fixes and a few new models.

10 completely new playable vehicles, CV9030F, T-72M1, LAV-III, BRDM-2, BTR-80, M901, challenger 2, GTK boxer, fuchs, cougar MRAP
4 new non-playable vehicles, centurion, M109, 2S1, shilka.
new civilian vehicles, 125cc motorbike, truck, and a van.
5 new bridges, all of them destructible.
playable deployable missile launchers, M220A2 TOW, Fagot, Milan, Bill, malyutka.
4 updated vehicles with improved, or added vehicle interiors, leopard 1A5DK, M2A2 bradley, leopard 2A4, M1A1 abrams.
updated vehicle models, BMP-1, BMP-2, leopard 1A5DK.
increased visibility range, up to 18km.
Helicopters now have the ability to drop soldiers.

thats a bit more than "just a few bugfixes" IMO. and i probably forgot a few things.

Max Power

Dec 28 2011, 09:35

18,000 km? So when you're in Canada, say, you can see Australia?

ReconTeam

Dec 28 2011, 10:39

CameronMcDonald

Dec 28 2011, 22:52

18,000 km? So when you're in Canada, say, you can see Australia?

You know you want to, Max. We've got it all. :D

Vexter

Dec 29 2011, 05:59

I'd pay $70 for such a sim, I'm real iffy about the $100+ figure though. I suppose I could understand it if you were getting the DVD version delivered with a full, high quality manual and all of that cool stuff.

Someday perhaps. Maybe if my corporate masters gave me a raise.

I don't understand why increased sales wouldn't make up for lowering the price, even if just for a time as part of a sale.

can't really disagree with you. but there is a pretty good upgrade policy.
an update costs about 20$, and
you're pretty much free to update whenever you feel like it. so if you've purchased the sim, and you don't like the content of the next update, you can skip it, and wait for the next one after that, but when you decide to update, you'll still get all of the things that were in the last update.

Kualus

Dec 26 2012, 23:38

I'd like to mention my own experiences with Steel Beasts Pro PE, since I think they need to be known.

The simulator itself is excellent, and I only have a few minor issues (flying M88 bug, outdated graphics-but I do have a fondness for some old graphics engines, including this one) with it. It's the toxic community that makes it not worth getting. The community is toxic and xenophobic, luring the few newcomers in just to implicitly bash them, and deludes itself into thinking it isn't on life support. If anyone has hesitancy about getting it because of its price, the members will attack that person and accuse them of lack of commitment (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/19/the-flare-path-ace-academy-dropout/#comment-1113517). It is lorded over by Nils "Ssnake" Hinrichsen, eSimGames's marketing and sales director, xenophobic manchild extraordinaire, who has lied about Intel CPU designations (http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=221246&postcount=7), falsely accused forum members of racism (http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=16901), screamed at members who try to help him (http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=221285&postcount=12), and essentially admits to lying about the new graphics engine (http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=223583&postcount=45). There's no way to appeal over his head, as all ways to contact eSimGames go through him. No one ever stands up to him, because they are all cowards, and quite a few of them are nearly as bad as he is. They taunt those with low post count (http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=220579&postcount=14), and even outright lie about other simulators while throwing in Steel Beasts sales pitches (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1970895&postcount=8).

Then there's the vaporware. The playable T-72M1 was the Duke Nukem Forever of the sim: it took 6 years to arrive, and there was disappointment when it did show up. The fixes to 25mm and 30mm HE ammunition, the BM8 and BM46 ammunition, the 50x spotting score for the Lemur RWS were all promised in the 2.654 release notes, and not delivered. No quick patch to add them either. The additional T-55 variants which we were promised over 2 years ago (http://www.simhq.com/_land3/land_153a.html) are also MIA.

Long story short? Not worth it for any price, let alone the $100 for the download only version.

Max Power

Dec 29 2012, 19:37

Let's stop the spamming and continue with the topic at hand, shall we?

Max Power

Dec 30 2012, 20:29

scrim, DarkLabor, Kualus

Welcome to Infractionville, population: You.

I told you to cease the offtopic discussion. You failed to do so. Topic cleaned. Any more of this he-said-she-said nonsense and you will be banned from participating in this topic.

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