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I have seen a lot of war movies made in different countries and I must ask: What's with the cheesy patriotic ethos that's filling all Hollywood war movies nowadays?
I mean I have seen finnish war movies and those really don't have any flag waving at all. The enemy (russians) are pictured as humans also and the characters mainly fight just to remain alive and to keep their buddies alive. So it is in war, I'd imagine, the flag waving is done mostly by civvies back home. At least so my grandfathers (both veterans) told me.
German war movies are just the same. Russian (post soviet) war movies and Vietnam-era Hollywood movies also seem to concentrate on the buddy-aspect of warfare, but also tell about the inhumanizing effect war has on people and about the lameness and ridiculousness of the reasons behind wars.
Soviet war movies are... well... let's just say filled with praise towards dying for the cause. Blah. Typical propaganda. Anyway, after seeing Saving Private Ryan, I can only say: WTF? I mean is the lesson of the movie: If you don't shoot all evil germans in sight, the one you let go (the machinegunner) will turn out to be some SS killer and slaughters all your buddies? The germans are also pictured as some Star Wars stormtroopers, faceless, evil. I also just despise all the flag waving in the movie. I mean really, the only ocassion you need to show a flag in war movies is when they cover up coffins with it.
I bet even typical front line U.S. soldiers in WWII just wanted to make it and their buddies to make it. I bet the flag waving was done by the REMFs, so why show this crap in a movie? Why change the concept that worked so well in the Vietnam-era movies?
Longinius
Jan 21 2002, 08:35
Because the audience loves it. Hollywood style pictures are mainly directed to the American audience. Americans are by nature (most of them) very patriotic and proud of their nation, its flag and the people. Especially those people that fight to preserve these things they love so much. That is why you see it in Hollywood movies.
The reason a Finnish war movie does not have these components is not that people in Finland are less proud of their heritage, nor are they less patriotic. It is simply not a part of their cultural heritage. They are not a nation of mixed cultures and people, they don't need flags or speeches to motivate or unite. They are allready united as a people.
Oh crap. You're probably right. It must be because of their precious patriotism and nationalism. It's kind of scary, since patriotism and nationalism were the key ingredients to make WWII happen. It is very sad that the underlying message of the modern hollywood war movie is exactly the same as that presented by the soviet war movie. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
And now with the terror issue... Sheesh, the wounded giant is flailing out.
I guess I have to stick to non-U.S. movies for my war entertainment. Too bad, since the Hollywood can stick so much dough to those productions it makes them visually spectacular.
Hilandor
Jan 21 2002, 09:56
indeed i also heard a film reviewer mention that after the sept 11 attacks, America have started to pump out war films so as to gain the "feel good" factor again with its citizens.
It shows the power of television and film.
Argh. I can see the flood of films filled with True American Heroes ™ flooding the box office. And I used to like going to the movies. Now how can I get to a different planet?
lol
can you guys even imagine a russian, finnish, german or english (well..skip the english, they MIGHT do it) rambo...
a huge muscular german SS soldier running around at the frontline shooting arrows at the ruskies...
a russian built as a bear running around and strangling his nazi-foes to death....
a finnish angry looking guy runs around in enemy trenches poking his oversized knife into the commies...
and all that with patriotic music and a occasional slow motion clip of a flag waving in dramatic scenery..
hollywood should not be allowed to make warmovies, they simply cant resist making them overly patriotic....pearl harbour??.japanese were made to be "incompetent" in it, the japanese were shown as evil butchering fleeing civilians in pearl harbour...and when americans bombed tokyo you hear "only military targets, avoid damaging civilians" bs...
in real life, some 60 or so civilians died in pearl harbour...but in tokyo, hundreds of thousands in one raid alone...........
its sickening to watch american movies sometimes.
(only hollywood-flaming)
R. Gerschwarzenge
Jan 21 2002, 12:34
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @<hidden> Jan. 21 2002,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">can you guys even imagine a russian, finnish, german or english (well..skip the english, they MIGHT do it) rambo...
a huge muscular german SS soldier running around at the frontline shooting arrows at the ruskies...
a russian built as a bear running around and strangling his nazi-foes to death....
a finnish angry looking guy runs around in enemy trenches poking his oversized knife into the commies...
and all that with patriotic music and a occasional slow motion clip of a flag waving in dramatic scenery..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A movie like that would be the B-movie of the century. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I actually saw a soviet rambo-movie once. It was about a squad of speznaz wasting some CIA-supported guerrillas. It had a lot of soviet hymns in it for propaganda purposes, so it was quite a pain to watch. Funnily though, it didn't have a typical hollywood ending, because the leader of the squad got shot by one of the guerrillas. The final scene depicts the rest of the squad taking the news to the father of the squad leader. Coolly, the squad members don't even say anything, but the father begins crying, because he knows that they cannot be bringing any good news...
I guess the ending sort of vindicated that film.
KingBeast
Jan 21 2002, 14:20
Doesnt Dolf Lundgren (think thats his name) play a lot of those roles pete? Im sure ive seen him as a big muscular german or as a big muscular russian.
The films werent of the highest quality so i cant say as to whether they were hollywood or not though.
Fenix83
Jan 21 2002, 15:37
Lungren played only on pro-american (anti-commie) films.
Silencer
Jan 21 2002, 15:43
I have some russian war movies where the russian advanced in the battle of stalingrad.
yup, like Red Scorpion (not too bad movie).
actually....rambo is not a war movie, its a action movie, but i took it up since it has a lot in common with hollywood war-movies...enemy is BAD, very bad..and own guys are either really nice guys that happen to be in a war, or super tough soldiers of justice who love to be in the war and kill the bad guys...and the enemy is either corrupt, fanatical, stupid or plain incompetent.
take a german movie for example, Stalingrad....anyone remember the scene when both sides agreed on a small ceasefire to get the wounded and collect nametags?
very nice, you could clearly see that on both sides they were humans who were fighting, scared ones...but neither of them would hesitate a second to kill the enemy.
Thehamster
Jan 21 2002, 15:58
A film I saw a while ago called All Quite On The Western Front (I think) Showed world war I trench fighting from the German side of view how glorious it would be to go off and fight in the war but the true horrors his them once their there. Not an ounce of German patriotism in it. It was not a war film like saving private Ryan in fact there was very little fighting in it at all. But any how I thought it was a very well done film as film go.
WhoCares
Jan 21 2002, 16:03
For the german side I can offer 'Cross of Iron' (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0074695) (Steiner - Das eiserne Kreuz). Off course it is not as pathetic or patriotic as latest Hollywood movies for obvious reasons. What happens to more critical movies shows the example of 'Thin red line' - nominated for as much Oscars as SPR, but received not a single Award. (btw: interesting to see, that it's a similar story in 'Cross of Iron' and 'Thin red line')
And I can 100% agrre with lots of the user comments in the link above.
wkr
WhoCares
KingBeast
Jan 21 2002, 16:08
I ordered stalingrad about 5 weeks ago, jsut got confirmatio nthat its been shipepd today. Unfortunately its dubbed, so im hopnig the dubbed vocies have accents rather than being American/English.
ChickenHawk
Jan 21 2002, 16:10
Hollywood is the heart and soul of shy& in America. They like to re-write history the American way. Thats the basics and thats all anyone needs to know. I find it hard to believe anyone could be ignorant enough to take note of their movies and eventually believe that they are based on truth.
But it works....
I hear that Hollywood will soon be making a movie on how they won the falklands war. I hear that the brits also die in it.
silent wings
Jan 23 2002, 09:53
The americans seem to have a complex, they rewrite history so they r the hero's whilst all the time their society is destroying itself,im apologise to al the americans on here but u r one fucked up ppl.
How is our society destroying itself?
Anyone who watches Hollywood movies in order to learn the truth is an idiot as it is. Anyone who watches Hollywood movies (or ANY movie) and believes them as the truth of a situation is a damn fool.
Granted that there are people out there that will watch "U571" and say "Yeah! America kicks ass! We did it all!" and yes they are a damn fool. On the same token at the end (before the credits)there was a note thanking the sailors and soldiers that REALLY captured the Enigma devices..it listed the ships and the dates....any halfway intelligent person would note that there wasn't a single American ship listed. "U571" was an action movie nothing more nothing less. If you take it for history you are a fool.
Anyone who expects even handed, fair minded handling of an antagonists story in a movie is an idiot. You have to look at it from the narrative aspects of the film. "Black Hawk Down" has been critizied for not showing the "Somalian motivation" for what they did, or how they acted or putting the Somalian affair in "perspective". Even going so far as to say the movie was borderline racist. From the narrative aspect of the movie why would "Somalian motivation" be neccessary. Its about the soldiers that fought....the AMERICAN soldiers. It's concetrated on them, and all they knew were a couple thousand people were after them. You think they cared about "motivations" and "perspectives" at the time? So as far as the movie narrative is concerned its unwarrented. You want both sides and perspective....watch a documentary or read the book.
"Saving Private Ryan" as well. You think they cared if the Germans are human? In any war you have to dehumanize the enemy to do what you have to do. Plus (I don't know if this had anything to do with it), Speilberg is Jewish and might have a personnel connection to holocaust and its effects...thus his some standardized portyal of Germans in World War 2.
But all that might just be reading into it. It could be as simple as the fact it was made for an American audience. Yes we export every damn movie, but the film is MADE for Americans. Hollywood is IN America. Why wouldn't it have an American tilt? You want movies that don't have American tilts? France makes great films. Britian makes some nice films. India has some great films. No one said you had to see them (Hollywood hitmen will be after me for that one). All the highest grossing, blockbusters in South Korea were made in South Korea and stared South Korean stars.
I can't believe you are actually talking about the Rambo movies. What an entire waste of celluloid. What great loads of crap (except "First Blood" which was half-way alright for other reasons than the action). "Red Scorpion"? My god.
Least someone mentioned "The Thin Red Line". A great movie. Close to a masterpiece.
Unless a movie is advertised as being "the truth" or have all the facts, there is no excuse for accepting a movie at face value (why do you think there is so much use of the legalese "BASED on a true story"). No movie (short of documentaries) is going to be entirely fact based. Not unless they want to make money. There are narrative and financial considerations that out-weigh that.
Think thats everything...can't remember....
Outty for now...
Silencer
Jan 23 2002, 17:30
World war II movies sometims re fun to watch but there history story is lame.Americans now start bragging how powerful and they beaten the germains in berlin...
thats only half the story....maney other countrys wenbt to war with germain especially russia.they lost millions of people and american sits back and say "american won we saved everyone".I believe russia deserves credit too!!!
I just reiterate what I already said.
Movies aren't meant to be educational nor are they meant to be history lessons. The whole premise of a movie is the "suspension of disbelief" theory, where an audience forgets what they know is real and true in order to try to be entertained for 2 hours.
If you are going to movies for history lessons, then there is something drastically wrong. Read a book.
Surprisingly, "Pearl Harbor" made quite a bunch of references to the other nations fighting, especially the British. There are a number of movies (especially made between 1942-1943) where Americans are anything but "kicking ass". They were made not only for propaganda but for national catharsis. The movies depict Americans getting kicked around but raising above that, to be the "heros" of the nation...maybe dying, but dying for what is "right".
No one doubts Russia's contribution to the war (we won't get into Lend-Lease), or the great price it paid, or Britain, or France, or any other nation. But Americans helped as well, and as American movie makers, with American stars, geared toward an American audience it is no wonder they are American oriented. You want to see a WW2 movie NOT about Americans then don't watch an American WW2 movie (with some exceptions). I hear there is a movie in France being made or already made about the resitence as well as one about French film makers during the occupation. I intend to see both.
Don't go to the movies expecting to learn something, or expecting a history lesson. It ain't gonna happen.
Placebo
Jan 23 2002, 18:07
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Fenix83 @<hidden> Jan. 21 2002,16:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lungren played only on pro-american (anti-commie) films.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You can't have seen Rocky 4 then http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Ex-RoNiN
Jan 23 2002, 18:09
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Granted that there are people out there that will watch "U571" and say "Yeah! America kicks ass! We did it all!" and yes they are a damn fool. On the same token at the end (before the credits)there was a note thanking the sailors and soldiers that REALLY captured the Enigma devices..it listed the ships and the dates....any halfway intelligent person would note that there wasn't a single American ship listed. "U571" was an action movie nothing more nothing less. If you take it for history you are a fool.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I might be pedantic...but as far as I know this was put in due to British pressure. Originally this was not going to be in at all.
Miguel99
Jan 23 2002, 18:13
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,20:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lungren played only on pro-american (anti-commie) films.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You can't have seen Rocky 4 then http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If Rocky 4 wasn't pro-american (anti-commie), I don't know what is. Did you really see it as pro-commie???
i know Akira, a movie is not a history lesson (not if it is from hollywood http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)
but i dont know if you know exactly what we (atleast i) were talking about, its not that the movie is not historically accurate, it is that it makes a good vs bad statement, not only on the "political level" (nazi gov. = bad) but also among the soldiers...german soldiers are always bad, russian are always incompetent and anyone else is just plain stupid.
all while americans are the heroic nice guys.
i understand what you say perfectly, a movie is a movie, nothing more..hollywood movies are made for americans first, and then shipped to other nations.
but the thing is, watch a european war movie (you really shoul)..take Stalingrad for example, you will not see one trace of patriotism, flagwaving or demonising of the enemy, no stupid, incompetent or evil russians.
in american movies the enemy is always that, always...it is the american way of making movies i quess...the old good vs bad, i have seen a movie made in bosnia i believe right after the war, it had a great story and didnt paint either of the sides as worse than the other (it was not a war movie, but based on the war time).
as some example of what i mean.
gettysburg, both sides repressented as good, neither of the sides repressented as bad, it still was a great movie.
as soon you see americans fight others than them selfs, then it is good vs bad, it is not needed to make a good movie, but hollywood for some reason repeatedly does so.
i heard rumours of the military giving support (borrowing equipment) to war movies.....IF they are showing the military as a good thing, perhaps this is what creates the hollywood desire to make good vs bad themes instead of "realistic" movies...not the audience desires.
if you are a fan of war movies, you should see "Stalingrad, All quiet on western front (old german version), Talvisota/winterwar, Waterloo (a oldie, but good)" and some others, specially american civilawar movies....those i rank as the top war movies.
they are not either 100% historically correct but you get rid of the flagwaving and super-patriotism.
btw, rambo one IS good...the following ones are plain silly.
(and i took it up as a extreme version of svp and other hollywood warmovies, even if rambo is a action movie)
Placebo
Jan 23 2002, 18:27
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miguel99 @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,19:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Rocky 4 wasn't pro-american (anti-commie), I don't know what is. Did you really see it as pro-commie???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well I saw it as pro-both, depended on your perspective I guess, my point was more in relation to character portrayed, not the movies themself.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,20:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Rocky 4 wasn't pro-american (anti-commie), I don't know what is. Did you really see it as pro-commie???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well I saw it as pro-both, depended on your perspective I guess, my point was more in relation to character portrayed, not the movies themself.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
dont you think it is kinda funny that the russian , coming from a poorer and less technologically advanced country..trained with computerised punchingbags and other hightech stuff.........while rambo..er..rocky, who is from a rich nation, that is technologically advanced.. trained in a barn using what ever he could find to use....
it was a decent movie tho....but rocky one is better.
Placebo
Jan 23 2002, 18:46
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,19:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont you think it is kinda funny that the russian , coming from a poorer and less technologically advanced country..trained with computerised punchingbags and other hightech stuff.........while rambo..er..rocky, who is from a rich nation, that is technologically advanced.. trained in a barn using what ever he could find to use....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And despite the training equipment, and despite the steroids Rocky still won http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Not that I care though, the Rocky movies are excellent, you put the tape in the vcr, grab the popcorn, switch your brain off and have 90mins of great fun and entertainment http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,20:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i know Akira, a movie is not a history lesson (not if it is from hollywood http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)
but i dont know if you know exactly what we (atleast i) were talking about, its not that the movie is not historically accurate, it is that it makes a good vs bad statement, not only on the "political level" (nazi gov. = bad) but also among the soldiers...german soldiers are always bad, russian are always incompetent and anyone else is just plain stupid.
all while americans are the heroic nice guys.
i understand what you say perfectly, a movie is a movie, nothing more..hollywood movies are made for americans first, and then shipped to other nations.
but the thing is, watch a european war movie (you really shoul)..take Stalingrad for example, you will not see one trace of patriotism, flagwaving or demonising of the enemy, no stupid, incompetent or evil russians.
in american movies the enemy is always that, always...it is the american way of making movies i quess...the old good vs bad, i have seen a movie made in bosnia i believe right after the war, it had a great story and didnt paint either of the sides as worse than the other (it was not a war movie, but based on the war time).
as some example of what i mean.
gettysburg, both sides repressented as good, neither of the sides repressented as bad, it still was a great movie.
as soon you see americans fight others than them selfs, then it is good vs bad, it is not needed to make a good movie, but hollywood for some reason repeatedly does so.
i heard rumours of the military giving support (borrowing equipment) to war movies.....IF they are showing the military as a good thing, perhaps this is what creates the hollywood desire to make good vs bad themes instead of "realistic" movies...not the audience desires.
if you are a fan of war movies, you should see "Stalingrad, All quiet on western front (old german version), Talvisota/winterwar, Waterloo (a oldie, but good)" and some others, specially american civilawar movies....those i rank as the top war movies.
they are not either 100% historically correct but you get rid of the flagwaving and super-patriotism.
btw, rambo one IS good...the following ones are plain silly.
(and i took it up as a extreme version of svp and other hollywood warmovies, even if rambo is a action movie)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh goodie...I haven't had a good Pete debate in awhile! http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
To be fair, Hollywood HAS made its fair share of even-handed, good war movies...but that is the exception rather than the rule.
You bring up another point about movies. "Catering To The Lowest Denominator." Mass audiences aren't looking for "thinking" movies. They lay down their 10 bucks (insert money exchange here) to be entertained, to be made to laugh, and to see really big things get the hell blown out of them. If this was not true try to explain why "Corky Romano" or "Dungeons and Dragons" got made. For these mass movies, the audience doesn't want to see ambiguity and moral uncertainty. They want clear cut balck and white, right and wrong. That way the brain can be shut off and they can stuff their face full of popcorn.
To say that only American (or more specifically...Hollywood) movies do this would be a false generalization. I've seen movies from around the world that do it. Not to mention in a lot of movies Americans are not only the good guys...but the BAD guys as well!
As for patriotism or the dreaded "nationalism"...there is nothing wrong with it. But you must also realize that the movies I spoke of above...the "mass movies" if you will....are the ones that do this the most. "The Thin Red Line" for example (one of my favorite movies), is made in Hollywood (not IN Hollywood...but you know what I mean)....absolutely NO flag-waving in that movie...shows the Japanese in an equal light. HARDLY a mass movie. It only hit the "art houses" here. "Saving Private Ryan"....quite a mass movie, carried on multiple screens at theaters, a lot of flag waving. "Pearl Harbor"...a sickening amount of flag waving (Michael Bay hasn't figured out how to do that right yet). Gettysburg...a semi-Hollywood movie....originally made for TV then released to the theaters. Good movie indeed.
On the flip-side of the coin I will mention "Mrs. Miniver" (I've mentioned this before). 1942 I think. Completely cast with British actors, completely about the British and their heroism during the Blitz, completely made in Hollywood. It's too much of a generalization to say all American movies are super-patriotic....the independant makers are not that way at all.
It is true that the military loans equipment only to the movies that depict them in a good light, but that is their perogative. It's THEIR equipment, and its VERY expensive. You think their going to give it to any knuckle head with a script and a camera? But Hollywood does fine with its own creations as well.
I haven't seen Stalingrad though I want to...keep meaning to pick it up. Seen the old "All Quiet...", actually watched in high school...and it was on Turner Classic Movies the other night...last image still sticks with me. The good thing about living in Austin, Texas (believe it or not) is the major film school here and the plethora of independant movie stores that specialize in foreign and independant movies.
Also the reason I mentioned "First Blood" (ie Rambo One)...was because it was one of the first movies to mention and attack the prejudice and "hatred" that Americans had shown to Vietnam vets. Was one of the movies that started a "reconcilliation" if you will. Plus the story was a hell of a lot better than the others....
Anyone here ever see a movie called "The Beast"...about a T-72 tank lost in Afghanistan (during the war obviously)...been looking all over for it and can't find it....
I THINK that is all .....crap why can I never remember http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
KingBeast
Jan 23 2002, 19:28
Wow Stalingrad arrived in the post yesterday, and it is truly amazing. I was blown away, so to speak.
The actual action was amazing and bloody (man getting chopped in half by a tank shell etc) and it was great seeing all of the german and russian Hardware.
I loved the chracters too, especially Fritz and the chubby man that can speak russian (got crushed in his foxhole by russian tank)
Anyway this is now among my top 5 films of all time and i would reccomend it to anyone http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Ex-RoNiN
Jan 23 2002, 19:31
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,21:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow Stalingrad arrived in the post yesterday, and it is truly amazing. I was blown away, so to speak.
The actual action was amazing and bloody (man getting chopped in half by a tank shell etc) and it was great seeing all of the german and russian Hardware.
I loved the chracters too, especially Fritz and the chubby man that can speak russian (got crushed in his foxhole by russian tank)
Anyway this is now among my top 5 films of all time and i would reccomend it to anyone http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It is even better if you can watch it in its original language...german http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
KingBeast
Jan 23 2002, 19:32
Oh yes ive seen the Beast of War. Great film.
Ronin i have the badly dubbed versino http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I really wanted the original but couldnt find it. Stil lan amazing film though
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,21:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yes ive seen the Beast of War. Great film.
Ronin i have the badly dubbed versino http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I really wanted the original but couldnt find it. Stil lan amazing film though[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm gonna feel like a retard but....
What language are you looking for it in? Amazon might have it, and the DVDs always have a couple languages its in.....
Dubbing sucks....subtitles rule.....hate watching dubbed Anime....takes away from the whole picture...
KingBeast
Jan 23 2002, 19:53
I was talking about Stalingrad, i ordered that from www.blackstar.co.uk where i always get my vids. The ydidnt have a VCR version of Stalingrad that was subtitled.
They didnt even have stalingrad in stock, i ordered it 6 weeks ago and normally they send the videos next day http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Had to hunt it down for me
this pos forum dont let me post my long reply http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Stalingrad is a must-see.....its a great movie
Renagade
Jan 23 2002, 19:58
anyone watched rambo 3 recently,at the end of the film some text comes up with the message " Dedicated to the valiant people of afghanistan" also they were represented as being good and decent folk all throughout the movie and the russians were the big bad evil guys.
Heh make of it what u will http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
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