To you swedish guys!

[brgnorway]

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article.jhtml?articleID=261103

[Snake1999]

Förvĺnar mig inte ett dugg.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[brgnorway]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Snake1999 @<hidden> Jan. 21 2002,02:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Förvĺnar mig inte ett dugg.

    http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Det finnes en del forvirrede mennesker i Norge ogsĺ. Bare vent, de kommer nok drassende med en norman snart ogsĺ?

[Assault (CAN)]

Hmmm. Since most of us here can&#39;t speak or read Swedish, myself included, could you give us the jist of that article?

Thanks

Tyler

[brgnorway]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @<hidden> Jan. 21 2002,04:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmmm. Since most of us here can&#39;t speak or read Swedish, myself included, could you give us the jist of that article?

Thanks

Tyler[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A swedish citizen has been detained by US forces and brought to Cuba.

[Longinius]

The person has swedish citizenship, yes. Want to bet its an immigrant that got that citizenship within the last 10 years?

He is not Swedish to me.

[jadacool]

The question is: How swedish is he?

[brgnorway]

[QUOTE]
The person has swedish citizenship, yes. Want to bet its an immigrant that got that citizenship within the last 10 years?

He is not Swedish to me.

////

The question is: How swedish is he?


[QUOTE]
First of all - I really dont care where this person comes from. I only posted it because I thought it was a curiosity. Having said that it looks like the person was born and raised in Sweden. My question to you are: How "swedish" do you have to be to be considered a "real" swede?

I have a feeling that you are not a very tolerant towards people who are slightly different (ethnic or religious). That is what I call "everyday racism".

The article is here if you are interested:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article.jhtml?articleID=262289


http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Pukko]

Well, it looks like he is born Swedish according to Expressen (and therefore not very valuable information).

Not that I would care if he was really born a Swede or a immigrant; I dont hold &#39;real&#39; Swedes any higher than immigrants. Also if Expressen is wrong, there are always the possibility that he just have came over a Swedish passport.

[Longinius]

He was born in Swedish, by immigrant parents, make hím a 2nd generation immigrant.

"First of all - I really dont care where this person comes from. I only posted it because I thought it was a curiosity. Having said that it looks like the person was born and raised in Sweden. My question to you are: How "swedish" do you have to be to be considered a "real" swede?"

Well, first of, Islam is not swedish culture. So there is a catch right away. A follower of Islam cannot be Swedish. Just like a christian cannot be a muslim. Islam is not only a religion, it is a definition of a culture.

Secondly, a person becomes Swedish to me when:
1. He or she can speak our language
2. He or she accepts out culture and our laws
3. He or she wants to be a productive part of our society

Any person with Swedish citizenship that fits those three descriptions is Swedish to me.

"I have a feeling that you are not a very tolerant towards people who are slightly different (ethnic or religious). That is what I call "everyday racism"."

I am very tolerant. I do however have great problems with how Sweden has handled its immigrant policies. By the PC (Political Correctnes) definition this makes me a racist. But I can assure you, I am not. I do however have prejudice opinions, based on experience.

[Sandman]

Either U are Swedish OR taliban/al-qaida-scum, cant be both as far as I see it...this "person" has choosen to be the latter and he will suffer for it...

[brgnorway]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He was born in Swedish, by immigrant parents, make hím a 2nd generation immigrant.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Well, first of, Islam is not swedish culture. So there is a catch right away. A follower of Islam cannot be Swedish. Just like a christian cannot be a muslim. Islam is not only a religion, it is a definition of a culture.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Islam is a religion. So is christianity. You can very well be swedish AND muslim at the same time. You are not denied citizenship because you happen to be muslim. Islam is not a definition of a/one culture. Nor is christianity. The different muslim societies in the middle east, as well as in the far east is just as varied as the christian societies in the west. Religion is not a programe for social behavior. Except from the citizenship I would say I have a lot more common with a fellow university student of Sorbonne than a sheep farmer in Norway. Norway is also probably the most "americanized" country in western Europe. So you tell me what Norwegian culture is? Thus, the definition of norwegian or swedish culture could be very hard to asses. Being a member of the state church is certainly not a criteria in regard to citizenship.

I also happen to know a few muslims. They speak my language, accept our "culture" and our laws - and believe it or not - they are productive. They do however wish to live "their way of life" (Bush&#39;s favorite saying), and I cannot see why that is a contradiction with being norwegian. After all, or despite your political correctness, Norway is a democracy, ensuring that you can be whatever you like as long as it isn&#39;t against the law.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I am very tolerant.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, you are not&#33;

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
By the PC (Political Correctnes) definition this makes me a racist. But I can assure you, I am now.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You certainly are&#33;

[GrimCalavera]

Bomb the sweden&#33; About time to swedes have a taste of war http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Longinius]

"Islam is a religion. So is christianity. "

The difference is that Islam, unlike Christianity, is also a highly political movement. Or rather, a non political movement. They refuse to have anything to do with the democractic system since the Imams decide whats wrong and whats right. This means that they set themselves aside from, for example, Swedish culture.

"Islam is not a definition of a/one culture. Nor is christianity. The different muslim societies in the middle east, as well as in the far east is just as varied as the christian societies in the west."

True, there are many kinds of muslims and many kinds of Islam. I am ofcourse talking about the mainstream Islam existing in Sweden at this time.

"So you tell me what Norwegian culture is? Norway is probably the most "americanized" country in western Europe. So, the definition of norwegian or swedish culture could be very hard to asses. Being a member of the state church is certainly not a criteria in regard to citizenship."

No, it is not. Wanting to take part in a democratic society however, is. Refusing to accept and support terrorism, is. Believing in equal rights for men and women, is.

"I also happen to know a few muslims. They speak my language, accept our "culture" and our laws - and believe it or not - they are productive. They do however wish to live "their way of life" (Bush&#39;s favorite saying), and I cannot see why that is a contradiction with being norwegian."

Then there is no problem. They have accepted what it is to be Norweigan and follow the laws of Norway. I am talking about those that chose no to do so and still live by the laws of their old nation / society / culture.

"No, you are not&#33;"

How would you know? Do you tolerate people that join terrorist orginsations then?

"You certainly are&#33;"

Well, there was a typo there, supposed to be "not" not "now". Ofcourse.

[brgnorway]

The difference is that Islam, unlike Christianity, is also a highly political movement. Or rather, a non political movement. They refuse to have anything to do with the democractic system since the Imams decide whats wrong and whats right. This means that they set themselves aside from, for example, Swedish culture.

---
Islam is not a political movement, it is a religion though. True, the courtsystems in most muslim countries are based on religious laws, as are most of the western european contries as well. You shall not steal, murder etc. However, blaming Islam as the reason why several middle eastern countries lack democracy would be to simplistic. Besides, leadership and courtsystem are two different things, mostly (did you know that the prime minister of Norway is a priest?).

I do agree with you that there are reasons to believe that some people don&#39;t respect norwegian/swedish law.
On the other hand, there are lots of "norwegians/swedish" that are responsible for crimes as well. Unfortunately many believe its allright to punish an ethnic group because of the actions of a few. Furthermore, if you commit a crime you are individually responsible for your actions, disregarding ethnic origins. The mere thought of being stricter on immigrants than your own ethnic people is silly. Also, I believe there are many immigrants wich respects the law.

-----
Believing in equal rights for men and women, is.

------
Why do women receive a lower salary compared to males in the same position. Why not allow women into the boards of companies and recruit a few more women as topp executives.
Oh yea, were so good at it in Sweden and Norway eh?


------
How would you know? Do you tolerate people that join terrorist orginsations then?


-------
Of course not&#33;

----
"You certainly are&#33;"

Well, there was a typo there, supposed to be "not" not "now". Ofcourse.
----

Of course

[Longinius]

"Why do women receive a lower salary compared to males in the same position. Why not allow women into the boards of companies and recruit a few more women as topp executives.
Oh yea, were so good at it in Sweden and Norway eh?"

I don&#39;t think that has so much to do with equality. Nowadays I think its mainly about men covering for other men and friends looking after friends.

When I talk about equal rights for men and women I mean the right to vote, the right to free speach, the right to free movement, the right to dress the way you want, the right to see who you want. Far from all muslim women have these luxuries. In fact, a majority does not and probably never will. That is not something I want to see in Sweden since it goes against one of the most basic concepts in Swedish (and Scandinavian) culture.