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Espectro
Jul 6 2005, 09:03
Quote[/b] ]Bohemia's battleplans aren't simple. They're positively complicated. They're working on two Flashpoint sequals, for a start. The first pressing on the boundaries of the original, critically-acclaimed Operation Flashpoint. The second game, as the [magazine pages] hint, pressing on boundaries full stop.
Operation Flashpoint was a tactical shooter like no other. Set during a hypothetical Soviet invasion of the West, its vast scale made you feel like a small cog caught in the wheel of a very large war. The lulls between engagements felt genuinely melancholic and the action was a rare blend of excitement and fear. We've longed for a sequel ever since.
And now Armed Assault is due in autumn. Think of it as Flashpoint 1.5. It includes all the missions from the original, plus expansion pack Resistance, plus the technological advancements from the Xbox version and Bohemia's VBS1 military sim. It features a new campaign, a new boot-camp and their next-generation graphics engine.
Technologically, the game has improved hugely. While most complain about games hampered by Xbox co-development, Bohemia have discovered that optimising their code for Mr Gates' ageing console has caused them to craft a game that hits PC hardware like a depleted uranium shell. An obvious bonus is the increased draw distance. Flashpoint played across realistically huge single-world maps; so the further you can see, the better it is. 2km of viewable terrain is Bohemia's current aim, thought they're simply planning on pushing it as far as the system will go. Sitting at the top of a hill, able to see the military ants of the opposition inch around a village while you play your approach, is an example of how the new technology rejuvinates Flashpoint.
Similarly, old limitations have been removed. Flashpoint was famous for its horrific collision detection inside buildings; but no more. Forests were originally created as single map objects, meaning they were strictly limited in terms of how you could interact. Now, they're made out of individual trees, which can be knocked down when you get in a suitably armoured vehicle. The improved engine means that Bohemia can also increase the density of the foliage, resulting in some surprisingly thick forests. They can also be integrated with buildings, so that you can have a cottage in the middle of the woods. Inland lakes are another welcome addition to the world, and hills now cast shadows.
The new campaign, on an equally new island, has been created to showcase the improved features of the engine. It's much larger and more detailed than Everon and previous worlds. Codenamed Sara, it's going to feature dense woodlands and as big an urban environment as the game can take. Also, there's a whole new story to play through. While the game island is fictional, made of jig-sawed satellite images of Eastern Europe, it has a politically resonant background. The island's despotic North has been threatening the democratic South, which is under US protection. The US, believing the threat has passed, have started pulling out ...at which point an attack occurs.
While the defensive nature of the campaign distinguishes it from the norm, the most intriguing part is its unusual structure: the game is 'told' in flashback form after the war, as you are interrogated by your fellow officers. What happened? That's for us to discover as we play, with our actions helping decide whether this will be a court-martial or a commendation.
Armed Assault - especially as a mid-price release, which Bohemia are considering - is a genuinely welcome addition to the gaming calendar. Given the game that Bohemia have planned for 2006, however, it feels like merely a teaser for what's to come. The game that we can't call Flashpoint 2 is something of a monster. "Originally, we didn't want to do another old game at all," explains Bohemia's Managing Director Marek Spanel. "Just a new game, no sequals, that was our intention... We don't want to make a game that's a clone. We have a vision for a game we want to do, that is different... but we realised it woudl take us ten years to get there. And we'd like to do that, but just can't." So rather than do it all in one giant leap, they're heading there in small steps.
Their new, as yet untitled, game is the next step on from Flashpoint, toward creating this far-future dream - marching what was a straight soldier-sim into new, more obviously cross-genre terrain. "We don't necessarily have to stay with the same gameplay," explains Marek, "That's what Armed Assault is far: a new engine, but the old gameplay. [The new game] could easily have been a sequal as well, but we had a different style of gameplay in mind." And what's that? "Most of us are more roleplaying game fans," Marek grins. "We love first-person shooters... but we like roleplaying games much more."
An RPG? Previously, the only RPG that had anything to do with Flashpoint fired rocket-propelled grenades. "For a sequal, it'll be a surprise, but hopefully a good surprise," says Marek. "Our take on a roleplaying game is very different, unlike other games. But still, 'roleplaying game' is the only term we can use to describe it." They're talking about creating a game that reflects your actions. You are a soldier, in a war zone. There are no seperate missions, or 'Level Complete' screens. The world continues around you - generating situations and objectives determined by your actions (and those of the AI) in previous encounters. The nearest game to what they're describing, according to Marek, is Morrowind - an open world where you're free to go and do as you please. [Map feature as part of magazine] is your first look at that war zone, targets marked for your elimination. "The gameplay is more continuous in nature," Marek expands, "You don't have short, isolated missions. Rather we have much larger level goals. What you might call a chapter will last for many hours of game, but still be in a persistent world. Whatever happens goes forward to influence what happens next." On top of the size and continuity of this world, they're aiming to make it far more lively. "Wherever you go, any place in the map, there should be something there," Marek states, "not only men with guns!. While they're adding as much of an ecosystem as they can manage (during [PC Gamer's] visit, we found the team busily researching butterflies to add to the simulation), the biggest change to the platers will be the NPC civilians. Depending on your actions you will either alienate or befriend the population, the help they provide dependant on your social standing with them. For the first time a soldier game is about something more than just pulling the trigger: the very real business of soldiering in a difficult political situation, trying to win hearts and minds.
And to communicate with civilians, you need a conversation system. The game will feature an elaborate version of a conversation tree system, where you choose the line of interrogation. While some topics will be pre-determined, many options will be contextual, and generated on the fly. If you interrogate anyone about the locale, for example, they may know something about the movement of nearby troops and tell you (the information is actually taken from the AI's knowledge of the world's changing events). Friends, captured enemies, the local baker - anyone can be talked to. How the world dynamically changes is crucial to Bohemia's plan. Games which try to create a large continuous environment usually just treat that environment as a static place to explore. More elaborate games such as Vice City introduce simple reputation systems, so the inhabitants of a region change their behaviour towards you as you progress. Bohemia's shooter will go further, actually making inhabitants move about the map accordingly to their desires and orders. While the technology is currently being tested on seagull colonies and how they spread across the map (look closely in Armed Assault, and you may see them), its eventual use will be modelling the behaviour of thousands of soldiers. The distribution of troops will change constantly, depending on the offensives, manoeuvres and retreats - with your soldier often stuck in the middle.
And more than just 'stuck'. That implies the situation is passive. In fact, you'll be given missions that are generated by the circumstances you find yourself in. If the movement of troops means a group has been ambushed in your locale, your commanders may order you to take a look. Incredibly, even this technology isn't centred on you, but simply on following the logic of the situation. You're the nearest soldier? You go and see. A computer-controlled patrol is nearer? They get the order.
This dynamic war feature, previously only seen in combat flight sims, was supposed to be a cornerstone of the original Flashpoint. It was hopelessly ambitious at the time. "The idea was never wrong," Marek insists, "it was that we started the dynamic campaign before we even had a game. We're not looking at something that drastic now. We still want to do some storytelling. The [unused] original campaign was fully dynamic."
This being a realistic game, the US-based blue army will eventually win the confluct through sheer force of arms. The question is, what does this mean for your lone soldier, hunting a general across the map? The mix of scripted missions (following a main story arc), and those spontaneously generated by the war, should convey the feeling of being an individual with a purpose, and also being a big part in a huge war machine. Wars have been used as a backdrop for sweeping fiction for years, and that's the effect this project aims to achieve.
Bohemia's technology enables some other flourishes. There are fully destructible vehicles, each capable of being reduced to their component elements. Yet due to the continuous, persistant nature of the world, anything you destroy stays destroyed. Prevously destructible scenery has mainly been used for the visceral thrill of seeing something blown apart. Here, it could be married to an emotional impact. You'll only see the explosion once, but the rubble will remain as a reminder of your failure forever.
It's an ambitoous remit, and one that would overwhelm most developers. Bohemia do have advantages, however. Constructing the game directly on top of their pre-existing technology means that certain huge technical challenges, like the sprawling environments covered with huge armies, are already possible. They have the experience, and are now free to push in these brave new directions.
Very few games have conveyed the intermittent horror and quiet tension of modern combat. Flashpoint was unique in its realism, but was still only about the actual fighting. The game-previously-known-as-Flashpoint 2 may offer us a chance to not just be a fighter - but to live as a soldier. As they say, how can this be considered anything other than as an RPG? That makes it different. And very exciting.

Thanks to Reven for his time, and to OFPFiles.com (http://operationflashpoint.filefront.com/) for making this news available to the public http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif

STGN
Jul 6 2005, 09:49
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wow this sounds fantastic thats all I can say right now
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/inlove.gif
STGN

Ti0n3r
Jul 6 2005, 09:53
Very nice preview. Good to get some real information about Armed Assault.

Ironsight
Jul 6 2005, 09:56
Quote[/b] ]The new campaign, on an equally new island, has been created to showcase the improved features of the engine. It's much larger and more detailed than Everon and previous worlds. Codenamed Sara, it's going to feature dense woodlands and as big an urban environment as the game can take. Also, there's a whole new story to play through. While the game island is fictional, made of jig-sawed satellite images of Eastern Europe, it has a politically resonant background. The island's despotic North has been threatening the democratic South, which is under US protection. The US, believing the threat has passed, have started pulling out ...at which point an attack occurs.
Good to see something of the scenario for Armed Assault http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/thumbs-up.gif

Me likes http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/inlove.gif

ade_mcc
Jul 6 2005, 10:05
PC Gamer whilst not die-hard fans, have always rated OFP very highly and look on it a lot more fondly than many other slightly oder games.

I remember reading their previews and the review of OFP CWC over and over again, as they just seem to get it. i.e dont try compairing to BF or counterstrike.

I visit (but dont post often) on their forums but any anti-OFP post that comes in is shot down very, very quickly.

And by putting FDF on their cover disk recently (and hopefully others soon) should make the lead up to ArmA very interesting indeed.

Now just got to wait till tomorrow when the August edition is available to buy....

quicKsanD
Jul 6 2005, 10:15
While I had the dream of a game where there would be 1:1 locations from the real world with literaly tens of thousands of NPC with each having their own personality in the simulated world ever since I started playing Wolfenstein and Doom,it wasn't until BIS brought us Operation Flashpoint 1 that I knew for sure I would see this realisation during my own life span.

I predicted most of the things written in the article a long time ago but it makes my heart fill with joy that it is now comfirmed.It's clear to me that BIS as talented artists were not corrupted by the large sums of money they could have easily made by simply improving their first creation with a basic visual overhaul and are instead fed by a desire to push the envelope yet further no mather of publisher deadlines or what the market craves for.
A dynamic driven role playing game in a world spanning on a teritory larger then most of us would ever see in this world serves as a terrific reminder of the talented free minded and ambitious developers we have been blessed upon with.

So I wish that Game 2 will sell in tens of millions of copies,it would be the least they deserve even though it is my own opinion such a simulation should reach every single home around the world.

D.murphy man
Jul 6 2005, 11:00
Wow! very impressed with the planed features, at last a game thats truly more dynamic then OFP...Game 2 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif and nice to hear a bit more info on ArAs too (we are calling it ArAs these days aint we?)

Just imagine the countless possibilites for MP play with a open ended,massive mission like that. especially with JIP. You could have mini MMORPGs running on servers where players just go around living there virtual life, or just have full scale wars between to player commanders RTS style.Ordering platoons to do missions around the map and such. wow i cant wait http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif thanks BIS http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif

Espectro
Jul 6 2005, 11:06
Wow! very impressed with the planed features, at last a game thats truly more dynamic then OFP...Game 2 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif  and nice to hear a bit more info on ArAs too (we are calling it ArAs these days aint we?)

Just imagine the countless possibilites for MP play with a open ended,massive mission like that. especially with JIP. You could have mini MMORPGs running on servers where players just go around living there virtual life, or just have full scale wars between to player commanders RTS style.Ordering platoons to do missions around the map and such. wow i cant wait  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif  thanks BIS  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif
Yea... im dreaming as well... and its only a few months away!!!'


Give us demo, ss's and movies!!

Wait, let it be a surprice, just finnish the damn game!!

Oh wait.. no.. give me demos !!

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

I dont know weather we are gonna call it Arma or armas, aRas or whatever...

It was the same thing back with ofp.. All agreed on using ofp, but suma for some reason kept calling it opf.. and sometimes still do??? Suma btw, whats up with that http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Ti0n3r
Jul 6 2005, 11:13
I dont know weather we are gonna call it Arma or armas, aRas or whatever...

It was the same thing back with ofp.. All agreed on using ofp, but suma for some reason kept calling it opf.. and sometimes still do??? Suma btw, whats up with that http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
How about "Arms"? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

walker
Jul 6 2005, 12:41
Hi all

Now that is just what i wanted to hear!  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif What a top banana day this is turning out to be  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

Very Kind Regards all a very happy Walker http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Spy17
Jul 6 2005, 15:32
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif
This sounds very good if it was not BIS I would not belive a single word of all the promises!

Sounds like a mixture of:
F4 (dynamic campaign)
JA2 (dynamic campaign + RPG + noncombatant interaction)
OFP (best tactical FPS)

Take your time guys!
Sounds perfect!

USA 4 Ever
Jul 6 2005, 15:41
Great info! Looks like they are going to test some stuff out for OFP2 (What ever they are going to call it) in Armed Assault


Quote[/b] ]While the technology is currently being tested on seagull colonies and how they spread across the map (look closely in Armed Assault, and you may see them),


http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

gonk
Jul 6 2005, 16:09
Fantasic news. Does it get any better than this ? Now to wait patiently. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

meio_maluco
Jul 6 2005, 16:26
I give them an A++++ fantastic, couldnt be better.

P.S: Just add real naval and air simulation and we wont need to buy other air or naval simmulators, plz plz plz lol, http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

Reven
Jul 6 2005, 18:19
To the person who wrote this thread: please quote references in future. I spent an hour writing that all out, and I saw no thanks to OFPFiles.

Raptor
Jul 6 2005, 18:59
intresting article.... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Thanks Reven...and PC gamer.:D
sorry i edit my News, i forgot it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif

Raptor http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

the_shadow
Jul 6 2005, 19:28
WOW!!

this sounds incredible and impossible...
this if far above my thoughts and belives in what game technology was/is possible of making...
really, i thought this was 100% impossible....
butterflies? in a wargame? Impossible....
and thats just a small part of what i was thinking....


man, i gotta get a new comp when this is realeaced.. whatever the cost... even if i have to live on water and garbage for 6 months.....

[IT|Q]
Jul 6 2005, 21:23
thanks Reven and PC Gamer http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/thumbs-up.gif

tankieboy
Jul 6 2005, 22:27
Game 2 = New PC = Divorce = Happy.

Messiah
Jul 6 2005, 23:08
that north south things sound reminisent of Korea and Cyprus... should be fun http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

tankieboy
Jul 6 2005, 23:45
Or that little Vietnam thing, or whatever it was...

CrashDome
Jul 7 2005, 06:25
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif

*CrashDome wipes tears from eyes*

Espectro
Jul 7 2005, 07:12
oups... sorry reven, didnt know it was ofpfiles...

I found it on the ofp.info thread.

ill edit it asap http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Dinger
Jul 7 2005, 07:28
Yeah, interesting. As someone who's followed simulations on the internet, I now instinctively wince when I see someone making promises like that to the press.
They end up sounding like John Carmack's Quake (I) promises.
Ecosystem, weather and the rest sound great. As for the "Dynamic Mission System" -- well, it all depends on implementation. There's no way to tell yet whether they're talking about really large OFP-style missions, or something really complicated. Dynamic mission creation has been done before, and it usually results in rather boring ("cookie cutter") missions. Something that combines narrative and chance would be handy, but leaving things "completely dynamic" or even relatively so means from what I have seen huge expenses in development, QA and balancing for a game experience that is marginally worse than a scripted, mission-based system.

The goal isn't to create a free-standing model of the world, but rather to make the player believe there is one. A flashpoint supertemplate collection, with say standard bus-routes, farmers who work the fields in the mornings, guys sitting around the coffeeshops playing backgammon, and some semi-random wildlife, would foot the bill quite nicely, without all this mucking about with balancing mechanisms and the rest.

Then again, Stalker promised a completely dynamic, large campaign environment. And as late as last fall, many were swearing it was The Next Big Thing.

Leone
Jul 7 2005, 13:13
Stalker still hasn't been released yet http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Even if only half of what is mention makes it into the game BIS will still owe me money for new trousers due to me wetting myself.

This game could be the coolest thing ever....exactly the sort of game I'd love to play! Now where can I pre-order http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

CrashDome
Jul 7 2005, 15:18
As for the "Dynamic Mission System" -- well, it all depends on implementation. There's no way to tell yet whether they're talking about really large OFP-style missions, or something really complicated. Dynamic mission creation has been done before, and it usually results in rather boring ("cookie cutter") missions. Something that combines narrative and chance would be handy, but leaving things "completely dynamic" or even relatively so means from what I have seen huge expenses in development, QA and balancing for a game experience that is marginally worse than a scripted, mission-based system.
I am not worried too much.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

It is my belief that (if BIS is truly prioritizing this concept) it can be done. I am actually quite certain in can be accomplished to a large degree already in OFP 1. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif

I've got scripts and prototype systems for each of the possible 'dynamic' systems. I've done dynamic civilian population within cities. I've done a dynamic transportation server (like an ATC for all vehicles - even gives players orders to pick up AI squads when they call). I've even released a few (such as the SOW Dynamic Dialog Conversation System).
Other teams/scriptors have built some pretty useful tools also - don't even discount your own CoC_CE and COC_AoD!

The SOW team has pages of discussions about 'dynamic campaigns' and I've got 3 year old 'cookie-cutter' style MP missions/campaigns that have morphed into even more elaborate missions using some prototypes I explained above (also using your team's CoC Enemy Stack system as part of some of em none-the-less&#33http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

The only limitations we've crossed in OFP 1 to prevent it from working efficiently and stable is that of the 3d models and 3d environment... such as # of groups, # of units, weather, types of units and how they work, and some other minor limitations (such as civ units always run when given a doMove command and they are part of a group - makes populated cities look kinda weird with everyone running around!&#33http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
We as a community are ALWAYS trying to find work arounds for 3d models and their configs.... if that wasn't so limited... we'd have 100x the amount of different game styles already!

Scripting has been weird at times, but overall for such a basic scripting language, it is by far very powerful.

Putting it all together in an efficient manner without skimping on any features is BIS's only goal to acheive what they say in their 'New game'. Hopefully they can do it! They just need to remember the concept of 'flexibility' in all aspects of the game. Not just the scripting engine.

D.murphy man
Jul 7 2005, 16:23
Going a bit off topic here but, i had the same proplem with civs running around every where with domove. To get around itj ust simply replace all the Domove commands with just Move and it all works fine, providing you Setbehaviour or SetspeedMode them first.

Sch1sm
Jul 7 2005, 17:06
I was the person who sent OFP.info the E-mail regarding the PC Gamer's preview as i recieved it on the Monday morning, saw the Flashpoint feature accross the top yellow bar and instantly leapt to the the 6 page feast that was very nicely layed out and explained everything very clearly. I read it in around 20 minutes and am getting cravings again. Nothing seperates me from my baby. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I'll read the rest of the magazine. Eventually.

PrivateNoob
Jul 7 2005, 17:28
Codenamed Sara.......so beautiful. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/inlove.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

CrashDome
Jul 7 2005, 17:54
Going a bit off topic here but, i had the same proplem with civs running around every where with domove. To get around itj ust simply replace all the Domove commands with just Move and it all works fine, providing you Setbehaviour or SetspeedMode them first.
Hate to clarify here as it is OT...but... Move only works when units are not grouped - otherwise whole group moves. My goal was to have each unit within a group move individually - only doMove does this.

In an attempt to stay ontopic:

Can anyone post the link of the original article? I can't find it.

Reven
Jul 7 2005, 20:06
I was the person who sent OFP.info the E-mail regarding the PC Gamer's preview as i recieved it on the Monday morning, saw the Flashpoint feature accross the top yellow bar and instantly leapt to the the 6 page feast that was very nicely layed out and explained everything very clearly. I read it in around 20 minutes and am getting cravings again. Nothing seperates me from my baby. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I'll read the rest of the magazine. Eventually.
I had given WackyIraqi the link to OFPFiles where I had posted the article, so I guess he took it from that.

CrashDome
Jul 7 2005, 21:19
Ahhhhhhhh.....

It's from an actual magazine magazine.....

Those still exist? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

walker
Jul 8 2005, 23:05
Hi all

I just read the actual article it is six pages along with lots of good pictures including shots of a tank blowing chunks off a building. So both vehicles and buildings are destructable.

The models are far more detailed with better textures, guns trees, hills, vehicles all cast proper shadows even on to vehicles and buildings. The Osprey and the huey are in the new aircraft as a range of new fixed wing planes.

If you live in the UK you should go in and buy it.

Kind Regards Walker

Placebo
Jul 11 2005, 08:09
The other thread can be used now.