View Full Version : Track ir
Just checking how many others here have a Trackir (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/) or are planning on buying one.
I definitely would like to see it supported. Not just for the vehicles and aircrafts but for soldiers too.
Should make flying (or landing) helos with a mouse and keyboard alot easier because you can then freely look around while not interfering with the flight controls.
I believe it would add 10x the immersion simply because it feels so natural.
Balschoiw
Jun 15 2005, 13:39
Another thing I´d like to see with OFP 2 is a multiple render output to split the OFP screen on 3 segments that would allow the useage of video beamers to build a spherical up to 180 ° picture. I know this is hardware intense, but maybe there is a Technical solution. Would love to build such a thing. I need to check on virtual cockpit systems and how they fire their beamers with source data from sim-engines.
In my technical understanding IR - devices track head movement by following a spot on the head, right ?
I´m wondering why noone uses his webcam for that stuff. In combination with a a banderole you put on your head with different points or patterns on it, it should work just fine. I guess there are already recognition software solutions for webcams that could determine the position of head by recognizing patterns or points on the banderole.
Anyway, I´m looking into the IR thingie a bit more. Maybe I can build one on my own.
If anyone has experiance with multimonitor projecting of games, let me know.
Would be a total of 500 - 600 Euros to build a 3 way beamer that is capable of showing at least a 180 ° spherical projection.
In my technical understanding IR - devices track head movement by following a spot on the head, right ?
Yes.
Quote[/b] ]I´m wondering why noone uses his webcam for that stuff.
I believe its a little more complicated than that. A webcam has how many frames pr second? 15? 25?
The Trackir 3 pro has 120fps. Anything below 60fps simply is'nt enough and will only create unnatural and jerky movements.
I recomend you buy it and try it for yourself. If you fly flight/helo-sims and racing-games you won't regret it.
I have to say the same everyone else I've heard talking about the Trackir. After you've bought one and gotten used to it you can't believe you've managed without one for so long.
The trackir can emulate the mouse so you can use it in OFP, but the mouse has no center so it gets tiresome after a while having to re-center your head.
Another thing I´d like to see with OFP 2 is a multiple render output to split the OFP screen on 3 segments that would allow the useage of video beamers to build a spherical up to 180 ° picture. I know this is hardware intense, but maybe there is a Technical solution. Would love to build such a thing. I need to check on virtual cockpit systems and how they fire their beamers with source data from sim-engines.
If I remember correctly that can already be done (if you have a gfx-card capable of splitting the screen accordingly). Just search the old General section.
Another thing I´d like to see with OFP 2 is a multiple render output to split the OFP screen on 3 segments that would
Hi Balschoiw
OFP can already do ultra wide screens. In fact there is no reason you could not use a 360 degree projector if you had one.
NVidia do multi screen graphic card that has already been linked to OFP by several people.
If you have a wide screen laptop you may already be doing it or wish to try it.
Look into altering your Field of View (FOV)
http://www.theavonlady.org/theofpfaq/sp/fov.htm
Kind regards walker
Hellfish6
Jun 15 2005, 17:08
Matrox also has a 3D card for at least three monitors that works with OFP.
Still, I wish I had a projector at home for playing. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
hmmm offtopic after the first post. I'm not exactly impressed http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
hmmm offtopic after the first post. I'm not exactly impressed http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
Poll that seems a complete disaster?
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
Well, i would suggest to "open the door" for track ir in the next OFP apps, so that it could be either introduced in a patch or developed by a modding group.
That would require some serious docs for it, though.
Either way I would leave it for now.
Well, i would suggest to "open the door" for track ir in the next OFP apps, so that it could be either introduced in a patch or developed by a modding group.
That would require some serious docs for it, though.
Either way I would leave it for now.
I dont think this would be something a mod-team could make. It requires support for an extra X- and an extra Y-axis. Thats pretty much it.
For those still wondering what the Trackir is and what it can do, check out the movies for any of the games listed here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html).
wheres my rabbit ?
Jun 15 2005, 18:18
thing that puzzles my about track ir is ...(not that ive used it ) but i imagine if you turn your head to look out the side of your plane ....
how the fuck you meant to see where your going if you not looking at the screen lol ?
Well, i would suggest to "open the door" for track ir in the next OFP apps, so that it could be either introduced in a patch or developed by a modding group.
That would require some serious docs for it, though.
Either way I would leave it for now.
I dont think this would be something a mod-team could make. It requires support for an extra X- and an extra Y-axis. Thats pretty much it.
For those still wondering what the Trackir is and what it can do, check out the movies for any of the games listed here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html).
you must admit that community gave you (BIS) a few surprices.
Anyway, as I said support it enginewise and someday just "plug it" in.
thing that puzzles my about track ir is ...(not that ive used it ) but i imagine if you turn your head to look out the side of your plane ....
how the fuck you meant to see where your going if you not looking at the screen lol ?
you move your head to the left or right slightly, so you are still able to look at the computer screen. You can also adjust the sensitivity of movement. I would love to have Track IR support in OFP, I can imagine moving my head as a foot soldier or helo pilot.... And the view changes. Track IR's large benefit is in instant situational awareness. I have used it alot in IL2, and in OFP it would be very useful when flying or on the ground. As we all know that sometimes we get tunnel vision when fighting as infantry. IE we only concentrate on our forward flank. Its a reminder to us all that the battlefield is 360 degrees.
Baz is spot on. You only turn your head 5 degress to the left, 5 degrees to the right etc and like Baz said, you can adjust the sensitivity-curves and deadzone for it to suit you.
After I had flown a few hours in LOMAC with it it felt natural. I just tried flying some in LOMAC recently without the Trackir. Then I realised how much I actually look around with the TIR. Situational awareness goes up 10 times with it. I can't live without it anymore when flying.
I am a bit impatient person with my back towards the rest of the room.
I just can't see myself crashing everytime, I peek what's behind me. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
gandalf the white
Jun 15 2005, 19:27
thing that puzzles my about track ir is ...(not that ive used it ) but i imagine if you turn your head to look out the side of your plane ....
how the fuck you meant to see where your going if you not looking at the screen lol ?
you move your head to the left or right slightly, so you are still able to look at the computer screen. You can also adjust the sensitivity of movement. I would love to have Track IR support in OFP, I can imagine moving my head as a foot soldier or helo pilot.... And the view changes. Track IR's large benefit is in instant situational awareness. I have used it alot in IL2, and in OFP it would be very useful when flying or on the ground. As we all know that sometimes we get tunnel vision when fighting as infantry. IE we only concentrate on our forward flank. Its a reminder to us all that the battlefield is 360 degrees.
no interest at all, my battlefield ranges from 90 to 180 degrees http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
-180 because everything not wearing your uniform is dead or dying behind you
-90 because of the cover I use
I also dont need it for choppers / planes. for planes I can use numpad / the view thingy on my joystick, and for choppers I use 3rd person or simply skill http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .
I dont really need it for immersion aswell... like said above: you turn your head 1 degree, the screen counts it as 5 degrees. so when you sneeze... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
For a game where you need to know what's on either side it's good, but for a combat simulator... I could do more with a keboard that can handle more entries at once http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
I think to greater accept the "powers" of track IR, you should first try it out before being so pessimistic about it. Its like saying a certain car is the worst in the world.... Without even looking at it or test driving it. Another interesting thing would be the use of the Vector expansion from Track IR. I'd like to see that in OFP, every head movement is tied into the game... In a way it really makes you feel more attached to it. To those of you who play IL2, I recommend that you get a track IR. In IL2 I can often use my track IR as a "padlock view" and just tease enemy planes with it until I kill them, its really quite fun and immersive. I'm not a track IR fanboy, but I have one and I just simply love it.... Wouldn't trade it in for anything.
Antichrist
Jun 15 2005, 23:51
Too complicated and from what I can read not very useful in OFP environment. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
its not complex at all, and at 18 years old and with basic knowledge of computers I am able to use it. Even if people do not use track IR, it would be nice for BIS to add support for those that do.
Longjocks
Jun 16 2005, 05:31
I dont really need it for immersion aswell... like said above: you turn your head 1 degree, the screen counts it as 5 degrees. so when you sneeze... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
I guess that depends on whether you sneeze with your eyes open. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
I'm certainly an advocate for TrackIR. Not just for vehicles, but at least the first OFP was handled in such a way that TrackIR would have worked wonderfully to turn a soldier's head (independant of the body) on the ground.
Kegetys
Jun 16 2005, 12:27
What sucks about Trackir is the ridiculously high price, the device itself is nothing but a webcam with an IR filter (one that only lets only IR light pass, unlike regular webcams where the filter blocks IR light) and an IR led on it. Someone should make a free program that uses a regular webcam to do the tracking (similar to Headmouse (http://nipg.inf.elte.hu/headmouse/headmouse.html)). Freelook exists but its quite crappy as it requires you to put a LED or something similar in your head for it to track.
I would also imagine that it might not be so useful in OFP infantry as you can turn your whole body quite fast with the mouse to look around and aim at the same time, with trackir you would first need to turn your head to look around, and when you'd spot something to shoot at you'd still have to use the mouse to turn your body/weapon at it. For flight sims its a whole different deal though, I tried Headmouse with Lomac once and it was quite "immersive", but still not worth the price of Trackir in my opinion.
Yssabem
Jun 16 2005, 12:46
Now if BIS included a feature in AA or OFP2 that used an ordinary webcam to track a reflective sticker or something (included in the box) that would mean anyone with a webcam could take advantage http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
Cos how many of us already have webcams eh?
(yeh i know about the low fps of normal cams mentioned earlier, but one can dream)
I would also imagine that it might not be so useful in OFP infantry as you can turn your whole body quite fast with the mouse to look around and aim at the same time, with trackir you would first need to turn your head to look around, and when you'd spot something to shoot at you'd still have to use the mouse to turn your body/weapon at it.
I see what you're saying and I partially agree.
But I dont run zig-zag all over the area just to look around me all the time. It makes me wonder off my course. With a Trackir I could look left and right all the time while running straight. So again, the TIR makes me more aware of my surroundings.
Kegetys
Jun 16 2005, 13:13
But I dont run zig-zag all over the area just to look around me all the time. It makes me wonder off my course. With a Trackir I could look left and right all the time while running straight.
I use the alt key to look around with the mouse during longer walks.
I tried getting used to using the mouselook toggle but I kept forgetting to switch back the moment I needed to toggle back.
Yssabem
Jun 16 2005, 13:43
i use the keypad, taking my hand off the mouse to look around. I use it so often it's the first thing i miss in any other First Person Shooter, been playing the BF2 demo last few days (i know i know i'll never speak of it again ;) ) and I REALLY miss the freelook.
i use the keypad, taking my hand off the mouse to look around.
Same here, but that really does'nt even come close to the benefits and immersiveness of a TIR. Impossible to explain, you just need to try it to understand.
SgtH3nry3
Jun 16 2005, 18:49
I see what you're saying and I partially agree.
But I dont run zig-zag all over the area just to look around me all the time. It makes me wonder off my course. With a Trackir I could look left and right all the time while running straight. So again, the TIR makes me more aware of my surroundings.
I love TIR!
I use it on every flight-sim, it's great!
And indeed TIR-compatibility would make this game more simulator than it already is...
Longjocks
Jun 16 2005, 21:56
But I dont run zig-zag all over the area just to look around me all the time. It makes me wonder off my course. With a Trackir I could look left and right all the time while running straight. So again, the TIR makes me more aware of my surroundings.
Yeah, that's kind of where my train of thought comes from, man. It's about increasing situational awareness without giving your hands yet more things to do (ie. hit the keypad keys) to artificially mimic what your head does naturally. I too use the keypad, but TrackIR simply makes that redundant if you have it. I'm not sayin "Grr... everyone must use TrackIR... Grr", it's just not for some people who like to make do without. I personally like to make quick, instinctual glances around me to make sure my men are where they're supposed to be and to spot possible hazzards on the fly.
This topic made me clean off the dust on the Cougar and have a go at a few Hog missions in LOMAC last night http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
I don't think BIS has anything to loose by adding support for Trackir. It's not like it would be a requirement for the players, just an optional (and very effective) accessory.
Fork122
Jun 17 2005, 15:28
I've just read a little about the new Falcon 4.0, and if that game supports Track IR maybe I'd buy one then http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
I already want one for IL2 because the directional button on the top of my joystick is really hard to track planes with.
I also agree that BIS wouldn't loose anything supporting it, the people who don't like it don't have to use it, and the people who do will be very happy http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
If you haven't tried TIR you don't know what you are missing so being a nay-sayer if you haven't used TIR is a moot point!
IMHO having native TIR support in OFP would increase situation awareness both on ground and in air and also increase the overall immersion.
Some of us have been wishing for TIR support for years in OFP and I hope BIS devs at least tries one in a TIR supported simulator (like IL2 or LOMAC) to see it's potential!
/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)
I´m going to buy one in a month or two, and i hope that ArAs will support it since i love flying but hate using buttons to "twitch" 90 degrees left.
IMO, a must have for any serious battlefield simulator.
funnyguy1
Jun 17 2005, 17:25
I´m going to buy one in a month or two, and i hope that ArAs will support it since i love flying but hate using buttons to "twitch" 90 degrees left.
IMO, a must have for any serious battlefield simulator.
Yeap...Imagine head movements while holding a gun, or even using IR sights.
The crap with some extra button for this (using the mouse) wouldn`t be needed with track ir.
edit: Could it be implemented to soldier simulation?
The `*` key stuff is terrible.
edit2: New Idea. What about having this extra button thing (on the mouse) and be able to manipulate the gun and your head separately?
For ex. ability to aim at something and quickly check the surroundings without moving a gun.
I think the way it would have to work is that your head is always controlled by the Trackir but the moment you switch on ironsights your view shifts to where your weapon is pointing. Then as soon as you toggle out of ironsights your head-view is controlled by the Trackir again. The mouse always controlls your body/aim.
Longjocks
Jun 18 2005, 00:55
Right on the mark as to how I picture it, Shadow.
I'd be willing to shell out the money for TrackIR (or a similar system) immediately if BIS would add support for it to the engine (ArAs - and maybe one of the future VBS1 patches, too) - after all it's not that much money if you consider the fact that the only games I've been playing for the last four years on a regular base have been OFP and it's derivatives (with no sign of changing).
I can't count the times I wished for something like the TrackIR when flying, driving or simply trying to keep an eye on my surroundings while running along my way. If you play in vetmode with no 3rd person view it's very hard to use any vehicles properly without the possibility to look around easily.
Situational awareness is something very important in a game where one shot is often enough to get you creamed.
kavoven
Jun 19 2005, 14:21
This whole thing sounds pretty intersting to me, but I'm not really convinced about it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif
The videos availaby on the Track ir side are quite nice I reall can imagine who I lay behind a wall and just move up a bit to watch over it(If I understood the system correctly)
But the point which is annoying me, is that if you look right, you always have to squint if you want to see what's happeing on the screen. So either you stay with the simple ALT + mouse thing which is vey effective and enough for me(and you don't have to change the position of your head), or you move your PC to your local cinema and use their projector or whatever they have, because neither I have the money for somehting like this nor the space... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif
once again, you move your head slightly in all directions and the screen moves http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif . The settings for the degree of movement is customizable and you can have different profiles for different games. Looking at the screen while moving your head slightly is not hard. It feels strange the first time you do it, but after a while you get used to it. And there's no going back to using hat swiches or keypad. In IL2 I use track IR all the time it is essential when flying. I can't imagine not using it anymore. I hope BIS adds support for Track IR in ARAS / OFP2, and if they do.... Then i hope they also support the vector expansion for track IR. Vector expansion lets you move around in 6 degrees of motion. Its like you're actually imbedded within the game. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
Like Baz explained, you can customize the sensitivity.
You can move your head 5 degrees to the left and it can be 180 degrees in-game or it can be as little as 30 degrees.
The first two hours I used it it felt weird, but after that it felt natural and like Baz, I can't fly without it anymore.
Hello,
BIS, any word on Track-IR support in Armed Assault then? I don't gree with the price of Track-IR at all, but supporting it is still a very good idea.
I figure it's not a criminal offense to get some sort of information about features is it? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif
And so I agree with Kegs, that thing should cost about 30USD not more. The number of sales would probably quadruple which would increase profits anyway. It has a lot to do with patents and copyrights me thinks.
I support TIR idea! Somebody mentioned that the fly choppers/planes using 3rd, but on most goood http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif servers 3rd is switched off.
And what do you think about chopper cannon reacting to your head movements without Ai support (in reality it does so) ... that would be the number 1 killa machine http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
But i dunno about about using TIR when you r infantry .. erm. When playing on MP i change my sittin position 30 times on one game (cti), i move, i scratch my head, drink a tea... wont be that TIR complicated? But i think that switch off/on button should solve all the problems ...
[QUOTE]
I personally like to make quick, instinctual glances around me to make sure my men are where they're supposed to be and to spot possible hazzards on the fly.[QUOTE]
I second that! And i have seen the video's too http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/inlove.gif Gimme..,
I'll get a one if ArmA will support it or BIS is planning to at least add support later on in a patch. OFP was one of the first games where you had a full body and could see your hands, feet and so on in the first person view and they were in the actual postions where the other players saw them.
But what really was unique was the ablitity to turn your head and keep the rest of the body in place. You could do it on foot and in a vehicle. I can imagine how easy it would to keep your eye on your surroundings with Track-IR. In OFP it was done by pressing ALT. It worked some times but while in combat you really don't have time to press ALT, look around and then suddenly shoot an enemy.
An official word by BIS would be really great. You could atleast say if you won't be making it so we don't get our hopes up. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
An official word is - read carefully http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif:
I cannot promise there will be no Track IR support in ArmA.
Note: I am a programmer, and therefore this sentence means exactly what is says, not something it seems to say or even something is does not say. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
gandalf the white
Oct 30 2005, 17:48
And what do you think about chopper cannon reacting to your head movements without Ai support (in reality it does so) ... that would be the number 1 killa machine http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
Yep! maybe make it a bit different so that it calculates how far off from the center you are looking and moves in that direction constantly? (so you wont have to turn your hear 100 degrees on a UAV cam :P )
For soldiers... FFS! can't Bohemia just test the damn thing to see how well it works? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif , add some code, fiddle with it, etc.
Personally I am getting more and more exited about TrackIR (truck rides, chopper rides, all sorts of rides!http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif, and I think that if the way it would work on infantry is settled we would all be happy with it.
well if it is supported i might get one for the hell of things http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
it might come in handy for other games 2
if there is any AV goggles which supports 1024x786 i might think about it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif
An official word is - read carefully http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif:
I cannot promise there will be no Track IR support in ArmA.
Note: I am a programmer, and therefore this sentence means exactly what is says, not something it seems to say or even something is does not say. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
Heh, thanks, finally the official word.
Hopefully when ArmA is released you will still have a reason for not promising that. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/thumbs-up.gif
Note: TrackIR is still too expensive. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/banghead.gif
Maybe BIS could negotiate a 98,95$ TrackIR discount for Armed Assault players. I could then use that and my Live For Speed 30$ discount and get it for free ;P
You know whats scary? I was thinking the same thing...
A certain Finnish bumpkin keeps shooting me down in his Brewster because of it so I am going to get myself one and show him what 87 Sqn can really do!
Plus it might be nice in ArmA so you can quickly look around to see if your squad is doing the right thing or not.
So I vote:
Buying one soon and want it supported.
Todalloo
I already have one and want it supported, it is a valuable asset in a combat game like OFP.
This whole thing sounds pretty intersting to me, but I'm not really convinced about it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif
Kavoven, I can understand its difficult, nay impossible to 'comprehend' or 'imagine' the benefits. And this is a real problem with this technology. Its a steep learning curve, and in fact initailly its unomfortable. But like riding the bike first time, once you get it, it becomes so natural that you dont notice your head movements at all (within the system gimbals, and with a good setup).
If only one the the BI developers was a lockon FC or other supported sims, jock, and spent some time with it on this, then maybe they would see all the potential it has. (maybe they have...fingers crossed http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif )
If only one the the BI developers was a lockon FC or other supported sims, jock, and spent some time with it on this, then maybe they would see all the potential it has. (maybe they have...fingers crossed http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif )
Suma used to (probably still do) fly flight-sims http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
I'm sure he knows the potential benefits of the Trackir.
Just keep your fingers crossed.
An official word is - read carefully http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif:
I cannot promise there will be no Track IR support in ArmA.
Note: I am a programmer, and therefore this sentence means exactly what is says, not something it seems to say or even something is does not say. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
Well bummer again, eDimensional is being even more greedy by making a TrackIR 4, for $180USD MSRP. The old Track IR3 PRO was 120USD, and the Track IR3 was 80USD. (notice a trend)
So, nice job, they release newer products and every new product just costs more, instead of cycling the prices of the old stuff down.
Too greedy IMO, I'm certainly boycotting them personally, I may get a used one, but never a new one. By the time we get to Track IR 10 the thing will cost $350USD.... absurd! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif
You are right. The new TIR is more expensive, but it does come with 6DOF as standard. That counts for something (about $30).
Personally I'm fine with the regular 2DOF. Too few games support 6DOF and I play none of them (I ain't paying money for a LOMAC-patch....)
Well in general computing accessories that is the goal, to make the next product better while also as affordable as the last one, to keep up with... COMPETITION and DEMAND. Edimensional and their other name just don't have competition. Blergh.
I wonder why some people in countries with a lot of bootlegged stuff don't make theiur own IR tracking stuff to saturate hte market.
blackdog~
Nov 11 2005, 16:23
I'll only buy one if it's supported in the game since I'm a total helo flyboy at heart. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/band.gif
[OGN]DarkPhantom
Nov 13 2005, 03:39
Explains all
http://www.armedworkshop.net/aw/
An official word is - read carefully http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif:
I cannot promise there will be no Track IR support in ArmA.
Note: I am a programmer, and therefore this sentence means exactly what is says, not something it seems to say or even something is does not say. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
Yay! At least you BIS guys are aware of it's existance and I'm sure you already tested it to see it's potential in OFP (and other sims). Here's for the hope http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
@<hidden> and others: I bought my TIR2 second hand for ~USD 50.00 a while ago and it works great in IL2/LOMAC/F4. Now when a new model is out look around at ebay.com etc. and I'm sure you will find a TIR2 or TIR3 at an fair price...
Not always need for the latest and greatest. Staying one or two step behind in the "computer hardware race" saves you a lot of money http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)
KeyCat, indeed I'd be aiming for a used TIR3, however, if you do check ebay and the sorts, oh my do people ever raise the price to retail levels.
If course this is not a real concern of BIS, it's something I'm talking about for the players like us.
sasyboy
Nov 13 2005, 18:57
Everyone's always asking me why my rist herts. They've all got the wrong I idea... it's my OFP love and obsesive mouse movement. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/help.gif
lol I know if it would be supported I'm going to nead a neck brace. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
I've had TrackIR1, TrackIR2, TrackIR3 Pro with Vector Expansion, and I will most likely also purchase the new TrackIR4. I would love to see TrackIR incorporated into the game. I was a regular user of the Alt view technique while moving. Very good for avoiding flanking attacks. Please do incorporate it. the NaturalPoint people are very responsive and helpful to developers.
Please correct me if I am wrong. But with TrackIR your onscreen body will turn where your head looks... right? So to just turn your head alone, you still need to use a key press. For onfoot I fail to see a need for TrackIR.
I can see the need for this in piloting yeah only because turnin g your head in the cockpit is way more natural. But no way can I see that TrackIR will be anymore effective/immersive than just using a plain old mouse and keyboard in the field for the onfoot players.
You pro TrackIR dudes wanna use it cause you got it. That sounds basicly the gist of it here. BIS by adding mouse look basicly negates the use of TrackIR at least onfoot.
Being an old Janes Longbow II fan from way back, I have heard many heli and jet peeps rave about TrackIR. So I do hope BIS includes the use of TrackIR for players who dig piloting.
Another example. BIS OFP A.I. squad control had way too many key pushes imho. I got around this by using Microsofts GameVoice voice com software. Now being able to command your A.I. ingame by voice alone? THAT was awesome for me.
Longjocks
Dec 3 2005, 14:36
Please correct me if I am wrong. But with TrackIR your onscreen body will turn where your head looks... right? So to just turn your head alone, you still need to use a key press. For onfoot I fail to see a need for TrackIR.
I can see the need for this in piloting yeah only because turnin g your head in the cockpit is way more natural. But no way can I see that TrackIR will be anymore effective/immersive than just using a plain old mouse and keyboard in the field for the onfoot players.
That can best be answered by loading up OFP and trying a few experiments. Firstly, run in one direction and keep scanning the terrain in at least a 160° arc from the direction you're heading. This is not possible without slowing down as you have to side-step (also displacing your formation in the process).
Next, engage an enemy and then try glancing around you to get an idea of what your men are doing. The keypad only offers 45° increments and the mouse look requires extra key presses that are more of a hindrance in combat. Furthermore, if you turn your whole body instead, while prone, your profile offers a larger target.
Essentially, Track IR allows you to completely remove the need for the numberpad numbers and/or the asterisk and replace it with a intuitive movement that increases your situational awareness and control efficiency. It's no different than having a 5-button mouse instead of a 2-button mouse, it's just placing more controls where they are easily accessed.
It's not a tool just for aircraft. Any argument one can make for the benefit/detriment of its use for a foot soldier, one can also make for a plane or chopper.
Heatseeker
Dec 3 2005, 15:17
Please correct me if I am wrong. But with TrackIR your onscreen body will turn where your head looks... right? So to just turn your head alone, you still need to use a key press. For onfoot I fail to see a need for TrackIR.
Nope http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif . I think you would have the ability to control your avatars head independently without resorting to the key pad/free look keys, simply by moving your own head? This should help alot in those situations where we are forced to rotate the model/camera all the time because we dont know where the oponents are coming from, it would also help helicopter piloting in first person view drastically, i can see the advantages in both mounted and onfoot gaming http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .
Don't care, don't plan on buying one. However such a thing in ArmA would be awsome. But not enough to wet my mouth.
There is an in-depth look at TrackIR4 at SimHQ (http://simhq.com/_technology/technology_068a.html).
Good read.
Quote[/b] ]So what is the final verdict?
First, let's talk money, in round dollars. Meaning any price that ended in ".95" got rounded up to next dollar:
The TrackIR 3 Pro, without Vector Pro, but with everything you need for two axis motion tracking, and a mounting clip to attach the unit to a flat screen monitor retails for $120 USD. The Vector Pro, which includes the metal Vector tracking clip and the software activation codes to turn on 6DOF runs $30. The top of the line TrackIR 4 Pro, including everything except the hat, is $180. A TrackIR hat is $10.
What would I do if I owned a TrackIR 3 Pro, but no Vector Pro? It would depend on what my simulation needs were. If I only flew sims without 6DOF, and knew that I would not use any 6DOF sim in the near future, I might just stay with what I had, the Vector Pro added enhancement to two axis notwithstanding. But if I was flying any sims with 6DOF support, or had one in mind pretty soon, I would go for it. It does help with head motion transfer in the non-6DOF sims, and in the supported sims I just got so I appreciated the added functionality and wished that all sims had it. It's $30, and I think it's worth it.
If I had the TIR3 Pro with Vector Pro, what would I do? I think I'd stay put. The TIR3 Pro and Vector Pro is a terrific gaming combination, and worth every penny to a serious simmer. Honestly, I just couldn't justify spending $180 when the TIR3 Pro does it's job so very well. My caveats to that statement would be if: a). I had a change in my space requirements such that the smaller TIR4 was going to fit, but the larger TIR3 wouldn't, or b). I had a ready buyer for a great price on my older TIR3 and the net cost to upgrade would be small enough to convince me, or c). I really wanted some increased performance and smoothness in a very small package, and I had to money to spend.
If I had a TIR2 or previous model, or if I didn't have a TrackIR at all, I would go for the TrackIR 4 Pro. Figure that the TIR3 with Vector costs $150, and the newer TIR4 is $180, a $30 gap. For $30, I always go with the latest and greatest.
The difference between having a TrackIR and not having one? Well, one analogy I can give is the difference between having a dial-up modem and DSL or cable Internet service. If you don't know what you're missing, it's OK, because you don't know or haven't experienced how much better things can be. But once you make the change, once you do know the difference, you can never go back. It's like a new world has opened up for you.
Quote[/b] ] It helps you get the most out of the simulations you play and have the most fun. And that's what this hobby is all about.
Could'nt have said it any better myself.
'Nope . I think you would have the ability to control your avatars head independently without resorting to the key pad/free look keys, simply by moving your own head?"
That is what I was wondering. I think I will stick with key mouse for now, but vote for TrackIR support for those who dig that. After using voice control software and seeing how much better that is as apposed to controlling using keystrokes, I can imagine how much better TrackIR would be.
svendejong
Dec 6 2005, 14:36
please ad it, ofp + more immersion :-)
I use TrackIR in OFP already by using a third party app called TrackMapper. It lets you asign head movement with the trackIR to key presses so i've bound NUMPAD4 NUMPAD7 and NUMPAD1 to various degrees of looking left and the same for 6,9 and 3 looking right. It works really well but i'd prefer proper mouse-look support in OFP (and ArmA http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif ) like you get with Alt and moving the mouse (especially for Choppers/planes!http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
It is SOOO much more immersive, just flicking you head left or right to get an idea of what's going on around you. With a decent surround sound setup and ECP running it awesome http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
From Naturalpoint's latest newsletter:
Good News and Better News
The good news is our friends at Bohemia Interactive (of Operation Flashpoint fame) have released a trailer of their upcoming Armed Assault combat simulation. The better news is they have assured us that they are doing everything within their power to include support for TrackIR. This could be the beginning of a whole new era as TrackIR support expands into the field of combat. Let's all keep our fingers crossed. All the details of this amazing new game can be found at http://www.armedassault.com.
lol i don't see anything new on armedassault.com.
but i must say....119$ http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
thats much money...
GGX_Lennon
Dec 30 2005, 12:46
a new Trailer sounds very very very good http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
where is it? www.aremdassault.com hasnt been updated...
Quote[/b] ]
The better news is they have assured us that they are doing everything within their power to include support for TrackIR.
Thats great news!
To thoose who say they don't care... I used to say the same thing before I used TIR for a week or so. Now I can't imagine flying IL-2/LOMAC without it and I assume it will be the same in ArmA.
I agree that the new TIR 4 is quite expensive but also consider getting a second hand TIR1/TIR2 or TIR3 to a lower price. My second hand TIR 2 works great!
/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)
To thoose who say they don't care... I used to say the same thing before I used TIR for a week or so. Now I can't imagine flying IL-2/LOMAC without it and I assume it will be the same in ArmA.
Oh just wait untill they say "How did you see that/it?" http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
GGX_Lennon
Dec 30 2005, 14:45
@<hidden>
where's the Trailer? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/inlove.gif
No idea. I get the impression Naturalpoint was a little early with their newsletter. If there are a ArmA-video it'll probably be released first thing after new year.
No idea. I get the impression Naturalpoint was a little early with their newsletter. If there are a ArmA-video it'll probably be released first thing after new year.
great and this trailer will show the simulation with TrackIR in Arma? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
That will be intresting. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Eda Mrcoch
Dec 30 2005, 15:45
I don't see that the new trailer is or will be posted on ArmA website anywhere in the quotation. They probably meant the old one we stole and mixed the info with BI message for them.
What happens when you want to take a drink of your coke?
Capitaine Haddock
Dec 31 2005, 10:17
The better news is they have assured us that they are doing everything within their power to include support for TrackIR.
That's really good news!
I use TrackIR for IL2 and FS2004 I can't imagine myself flying in a game without it. It's simply the best piece of gaming hardware
I've bought since my first joystick in the early 1980's. Once you've tried it there is no going back.
hbjonsson
Dec 31 2005, 18:04
Somone suggested that when you bring up your iron sights/scope, the view should snap to wherever the weapon was pointed.
I think this would feel very un-natural, it would make more sense to have your weapon snap to wherever you happend to be looking when you bring up your sights. Just think about it...
1.
You storm a room and as you move your head you see an enemy to the left...press a button, oops view goes straight front (because thats where your weapon was pointing), now you have to move the view back to the le...bang your dead.
2.
You storm a room and as you move your head see an enemy to the left...press a button that brings the weapon up and pointing where you were looking, bang...your dead (because you should´ve just thrown in a grenade, but you get my point) http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Leopardi
Jan 1 2006, 11:01
What is this "Track ir"? I need to know!
PainDealer
Jan 1 2006, 11:04
check it out here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/)
1.
You storm a room and as you move your head you see an enemy to the left...press a button, oops view goes straight front (because thats where your weapon was pointing), now you have to move the view back to the le...bang your dead.
You would need to move your mouse to position your body pointing toward the bad guy before bringing up your sites. Then when you bring your sites up your ready to drill the guy.
This is the same speed as it would be without TrackIR. The difference is that you can quickly turn your head that direction and see if there's someone there instead of moving your whole body.
When you bust into a room you don't want to stop moving so this lets you keep moving and keep the bad guy in sight so you can have a quicker response in aligning your sites.
casualty
Jan 4 2006, 15:11
The screen moves
Whoa, tell me that aint true.... surely its the image on the screen that moves, otherwise that would just completely freak me http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
funnyguy1
Jan 4 2006, 19:46
I don't see that the new trailer is or will be posted on ArmA website anywhere in the quotation. They probably meant the old one we stole and mixed the info with BI message for them.
sad but probably true...
I dream about seeing something which is not an early WIP video...
Why we have to wait for the latest WIP video so long...
The screen moves
Whoa, tell me that aint true.... surely its the image on the screen that moves, otherwise that would just completely freak me http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
well if you want to be specific..... The little liquid crystals in my screen cause a change of colors, and that then moves the images on my screen, which is caused by my head movement.
Journeyman
Jan 4 2006, 23:41
The screen moves
Whoa, tell me that aint true.... surely its the image on the screen that moves, otherwise that would just completely freak me http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
well if you want to be specific..... The little liquid crystals in my screen cause a change of colors, and that then moves the images on my screen, which is caused by my head movement.
I think U guys R on something a little stronger than coke! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif
Yea! If U move U're head then the image on the screen would move in response. So taking a sip of Vodka or 'coke' would turn your head on screen to the right or left respectively. However, U wouldn't be looking at the screen at that moment so it wouldn't matter! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
The screen moves
Whoa, tell me that aint true.... surely its the image on the screen that moves, otherwise that would just completely freak me http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
well if you want to be specific..... The little liquid crystals in my screen cause a change of colors, and that then moves the images on my screen, which is caused by my head movement.
I think U guys R on something a little stronger than coke! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif
Yea! If U move U're head then the image on the screen would move in response. So taking a sip of Vodka or 'coke' would turn your head on screen to the right or left respectively. However, U wouldn't be looking at the screen at that moment so it wouldn't matter! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
Would be fun to look at other people in multiplayer while they are drinking...
"Dude, why are you headbanging?" http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
Strango
Mar 16 2006, 15:11
In the newletter Natural Point sent out today they declare that Armed Assault will support TrackIR.
[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-
Mar 16 2006, 21:25
In the newletter Natural Point sent out today they declare that Armed Assault will support TrackIR.
thanks http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/thumbs-up.gif
here is a link supporting what you declared. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
TrackIr and ArmA (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/game-armed-assault.html)
simulacra
Mar 16 2006, 22:25
The interesting news isn't that arma will support trackir, that news is old, the intersting part is that Arma will be shown at GDC2006...
Hurray! I guess I have to buy a one then.
If those people lower their prices by half I will get one.And I think many people think like that.Really dont get what is so expensive with producing that hardware and why the heck they rather increase the price with every new version rather than to lower the prices of old versions.Im sitting here since about 2 years waiting for the prices to lower really so it makes sense to me to get one.Shame that is,because it's such a neat input-device http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
benreeper
Mar 17 2006, 13:34
I totaly agree on the price issue. Their business must be to target the high-end buyers exclusively.
--Ben
In the newletter Natural Point sent out today they declare that Armed Assault will support TrackIR.
Great! Now it's official and I knew we could coun't on you BIS... Can't wait http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
@<hidden> lwlooz etc: Try to find a second hand on eBay or the like. I bought mine TIR2 for a reasonable price that way and it work just great!
/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)
Strango
Mar 19 2006, 17:11
@<hidden> lwlooz etc: Try to find a second hand on eBay or the like. I bought mine TIR2 for a reasonable price that way and it work just great!
I'd at least get a TIR3 so that you can upgrade to the Vector Expansion. This gives you 6DOF movement and is much much better than the standard 2 axis movement.
Since there are very few simulators today that supports full 6DOF (I could be wrong but last time I checked it was only MSFS, BoB and the upcoming - not yet released - Black Shark) I have to disagree with you Strango.
A TIR2 works perfect with todays sims (IL2/LOMAC/F4/etc.) and there would be no real benefit buying the more expensive one for todays sims. Of course I don't know if ArmA will support full 6DOF but I have hard time seeing exactly how this would work in a FPS?
Yes, a TIR3/TIR4 is better and more "future proof" but if money is an issue I would still recommend a TIR2, just my 0.20 SEK
/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)
Strango
Mar 20 2006, 19:47
Here's the supported games list straight from Natural Point's site:
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir....ll.html (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html)
I count 21 games that support 6DOF. I hardly call that "very few". All I'm saying is that you get a much greater sense of immersion with 6DOF. You also get more fluid movement with a higher reading rate. The sensor is also wider giving you more freedom for casual movement instead of the rock steady head movement you have to maintain with the earlier versions of TIR. If money is an issue for you then you're probably better off getting a TIR2.
EDIT: As for Armed Assault I just noticed they have it listed on the page and it will support Yaw, Pitch, Roll and Z. Roll and Z would not be available with a TIR2.
Thanks for the link Strango! Indeed more titles then last time I checked. Myself will be happy to just get an intuitive way to swivel my head left/right/up/down in OFP but as you say the newer TIR3 and TIR4 are better, but at a price http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)
DMarkwick
Mar 20 2006, 22:23
I know theres a poll thread on the topic of TrackIR, but I wonder if anyone in dev can describe how the TrackIR is actually being implemented?
If I were to implement TIR into OFP/AA, here's how I would initially try it for testing:
Body and weapon controlled my keyboard & mouse.
Head controlled by TIR, body leaning controlled by TIR (6DoF)
When using ironsights, the mouse controls all head and body movement, however TIR still controls body leaning.
When crouched, TIR can also control height as well as leaning, allowing peeping over obstacles.
This might take a little getting used to, particularly the switch from TIR to mouse control for ironsights, and particularly the retention of control for TIR over body leaning, but thinking on what I need to do in those situations, that setup makes the most sense to me.
I am particularly interested in this http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Placebo
Mar 21 2006, 13:16
Merged separate IR thread into here, there's no need for 2 threads on Track IR.
This will be awesome! I'm hoping this year model's HMD's works with the Track IR interface (mouse control?). Would be great.
EDIT: As for Armed Assault I just noticed they have it listed on the page and it will support Yaw, Pitch, Roll and Z. Roll and Z would not be available with a TIR2.
I see the list too. I was really hoping for full 6DOF. Being able to move your view up, down and sideways could prove very useful when turned in in a tank as driver.
Now I'm in a dilemma. I have the Tir3pro.
Should I just get Vector or the Tir4? I want the TIR4, but I'm also trying to do the most sensible thing regarding costs.
I was thinking about getting the TIR3 + Vector Expansion because it would be cheaper than getting the TIR4. Then I heard the TIR4 has better resolution and response time and larger tracking area. Larger tracking area could come in handy because I move a lot. If I think about it, I crouch and do all kind of silly things in front of my computer desk while I am trying to survive on the battlefield. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
But then again, I don't have any previous TIR products so I will probably jump straight to the TIR4. I'm sure TIR3+Vector will do the trick, but I don't know how much better the TIR4 is compared to that combo.
Strango
Mar 22 2006, 16:34
I have a TIR3 and think the reading rate and resolution is silky smooth, so I can't see how TIR4 could noticeably improve on this anymore. The one feature it does have that intrigues me is the larger tracking area. If you are going to mount your tracking device more than 3 or more feet from where you sit, then this larger tracking area is going to come in handy. I have my TIR3 mounted about 3 feet away (I have a flats screen monitor, so resting it on top isn't an option). At this distance you have to make sure you are perfectly aligned with the device in order for you to get in the center of it's scan area. If you aren't in the center then it's possible some of your movements will move outside the scan area and won't be picked up. The easy fix for this is to just mark a spot on the ground for where your chair needs to be and make sure it's in that spot when using TIR.
I have a flats screen monitor, so resting it on top isn't an option
I have mine (TIR3pro) mounted ontop of my LCD screen with the "bracket" that came with it. Works as advertised.
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/01-store/0-resources-store/resources-accessories/item_clips2_large.jpg
Strango
Mar 22 2006, 18:55
Hmmm, I didn't get a bracket with mine, unless you mean the 3 foot base. How does it work? Maybe I can try to replicate it.
EDIT: N/M, I downloaded the latest manual from NP's site and see it listed in there.
N/M found answer in another forum..DOH
MessiahUA
Jun 1 2006, 15:06
I have ordered TIR4 specially for ArmA. I hope it will be delivered without problems and will justify my hopes.
Journeyman
Jun 1 2006, 19:26
I have ordered TIR4 specially for ArmA. I hope it will be delivered without problems and will justify my hopes.
I got mine last month! It's quite a small device (I think the CD is bigger and weighs more!http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif but your gonna like it for what it does. I've been using it in FS2004 and once you’ve got it set-up the way you want it and got the feel of it you'll find that it makes a huge difference in your ability to look around and are much more aware of your surroundings in a much more natural way.
I'd say that this device will rock in ArmA, where being tactically aware of your surroundings is gonna come much more naturally than toggling keys etc. Hmm, along with my Fresnel lens this is gonna immerse me deep into that virtual world that we are all waiting for! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
Ukraineboy
Jun 2 2006, 04:47
Personally I think it's too expensive for such a tiny feature, so I will not be buying it.
TIR is to the head, what the mouse did for the hands.
Apples mouse was initially an expensive flop, but now everyone has got one as an essential.
TIR is like that for immersion.
I'm going to be buying one.
www.simhq.com has got a $30.00 off special on TIR right now.
maxqubit
Jun 2 2006, 08:14
You can't say it is just a tiny feature. The feature is massive (looking by turning your head). Perhaps the hassle and price will prevent me from buying this stuff but the feature is imho massive.
edit: was directed at Uboy:)
Metal Heart
Jun 2 2006, 08:55
I wonder how come we don't have consumer-priced reasonable quality VR goggles yet, it's been like at least ten years since the first concepts. And the technology most certainly exists.
Like track-ir goggles, only with two mini-lcds displaying a stereoscopic image. With track-ir you turn and move your head allright but you also have to keep your sight on the monitor which is of course completely unnatural.
I wonder how come we don't have consumer-priced reasonable quality VR goggles yet, it's been like at least ten years since the first concepts. And the technology most certainly exists.
Like track-ir goggles, only with two mini-lcds displaying a stereoscopic image. With track-ir you turn and move your head allright but you also have to keep your sight on the monitor which is of course completely unnatural.
While possible this would be a pretty elaborate setup. First you'd need sensors 360 degrees around you. Second you'd need a setup that would allow you to rotate with your controllers.
If you think Track-IR is expensive wait until you see the price tag on something like this.
With track-ir you turn and move your head allright but you also have to keep your sight on the monitor which is of course completely unnatural.
I can understand that you think it would feel unnatural when you havent tried it. All I can say is after a couple of hours you dont notice that you're still looking forward while turning your head. It feels natural.
I have yet to hear someone who owns a TIR and not be satisfied with it.
It really is a an immersion-boost and situational awareness boost.
Metal Heart
Jun 2 2006, 15:52
Quote[/b] ]While possible this would be a pretty elaborate setup. First you'd need sensors 360 degrees around you. Second you'd need a setup that would allow you to rotate with your controllers.
I meant a system like track-ir, only wider angle and with displays. You'd be turning your head say 160 degrees tops which would translate to something like 270 -360 degrees in-game so it would only take two sensors. You would still be controlling the characters body with mouse in a fps game.
I'd imagine 360 degrees and free movement would be better with gyroscopes, hand held wireless controllers and all that stuff which would get a bit too expensive for consumer market I guess.
Quote[/b] ]I can understand that you think it would feel unnatural when you havent tried it. All I can say is after a couple of hours you dont notice that you're still looking forward while turning your head. It feels natural.
Yeah, I haven't actually tried track-ir and I do believe it would get quite intuitive after a while. I've also thought of getting one as soon as I got the extra cash.
Yeah, I haven't actually tried track-ir and I do believe it would get quite intuitive after a while.
Think of TrackIR like your mouse. You have to find the right sensitivity with your mouse to meet your personal preference in the game. TrackIR is the same way. You work up a profile for each game that works best for what you need. After you get over the inital hump of using the hardware it's pretty easy to adjust in new games. Everyone went through the same thing the first time they played a FPS with mouse look.
I got TIR about a month ago when I found it was supported by ArmA. I play Falcon 4.0: AF and could only justify the cost as I knew i'd be able to use it with that sim and this game.
It really does make for a much more immersive experience, if you have the cash there's no reason not to buy one, it's a huge jump forward from turning your 'head' using the keypad.
I got TIR about a month ago when I found it was supported by ArmA. I play Falcon 4.0: AF and could only justify the cost as I knew i'd be able to use it with that sim and this game.
Yea, that's why I'm considering buying one. If I would only use it for ArmA, I don't know if I would fork over the cash, but I also play racing sims. Now, if I also played flight sims it would be a definite buy for me. So, since I play 2 out of 3, I'll "probably" get one. Hell, maybe eventually I'll get into flight sims.
You won't regret getting it for racing sims. It works absolutely great with them, especially the ones that support 6DOF.
You won't regret getting it for racing sims. It works absolutely great with them, especially the ones that support 6DOF.
Yea, the two I play are GTR and GTL which both have full support. I also play LFS from time to time, so hopefully they will have 6DOF support eventually.
andersson
Jun 3 2006, 10:41
www.3dvisor.com (http://www.3dvisor.com/)
Its not that expensive (549$ ) considering that it is 3d view and also works like trackIR. Add 3d sound headphones and you get a nice experience? Zalman headphones (http://www.xoxide.com/za51suulgahe.html) http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Its out there if you search, but I suppose most is expensive s**t... www.stereo3d.com (http://www.stereo3d.com/hmd.htm#resolution)
Edit: I must add that I´m thinking of buying this as I need a new computer soon. Thinking that instead of buying an expensive monitor that can handle my 3dgoggles (LCD-shutter) I can put that money into this project.
Does anyone have experience with "real" 3d-goggles? A little to expensive to buy for a test..
Metal Heart
Jun 3 2006, 11:19
Hmm, doesn't seem too bad, 800x600 resolution would not be good for an fps like ofp though and the pixelation might look really ugly because the view is probably very large. I'd definately want to try those anyway.
andersson
Jun 3 2006, 12:00
800x600 is good considering the small displays.
Yes, it would be nice to try it out.
Journeyman
Jun 3 2006, 12:35
Small displays? I would guess that the view that you see would be quite large as Metal Heart says. With this in mind 800x600 doesn't appeal to me at all, 3D or no 3D!
My solution works well for me: Track ir with an F550 Fresnel lens from 3D Lens.com (http://www.3dlens.com/shop/largefresnellens.php/).
Checkout this thread (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=64;t=51883) if you haven’t already!
Until there is a better solution I’ll be sticking with this set-up, and the 3D effect is effective enough for me!
andersson
Jun 3 2006, 13:38
Hmm... If I`m not mistaken the resolution would be good considering the small displays. 800x600 is quite good on a 15" screen, but useless on a 21" and bigger. So I thought that 800x600 would be good on the small displays, even if you are close to them... Is there any reason to have higher resolution on a 0.59" screen?
Split a screen that is 0.59 inches 800 times and the resolution is good,split a 21" screen 800 times and its not that impressive.
Or have I missed something..? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
The refreshrate of 60 Hz is not that impressive, but its better than my refreshrate with shutterglasses http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
edit: Yes, that fresnell-lens looks interesting. With that prize its cheap enough to test, especially as you can combine that with shutterglasses.
Balschoiw
Jun 3 2006, 13:44
Quote[/b] ]800x600 resolution would not be good for an fps like ofp though and the pixelation might look really ugly because the view is probably very large.
The visual impression from that resolution on regular shutter glasses is almost the same as playing on 1024 imo.
I have tested shutter glasses with that resolution and the 3D impression created makes you forget the resolution in no time.
I also run OFP on a beamer from time to time and the max setting for the display used is 1024. Even when playing on a wall of 5m width the image does not get pixalated.
As there are OLED´s used in the displays there is no surreal backlight. I like the approach but I will most likely wait for a projected laser picture for 3D http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
funnyguy1
Jun 3 2006, 19:35
Would be cool to have the ability to zoom in/out while in Ir sight view by moving your head forward and backward...not with scopes of course...And of course the ability to use free head movement, no matter if with alt key or track Ir while in IR sight view...
warrning:my lcd doesn`t work so I have only basic idea of what I`ve just typed and posted...plz try top undersntand
Journeyman
Jun 3 2006, 22:55
Hmm... If I`m not mistaken the resolution would be good considering the small displays. 800x600 is quite good on a 15" screen, but useless on a 21" and bigger. So I thought that 800x600 would be good on the small displays, even if you are close to them... Is there any reason to have higher resolution on a 0.59" screen?
That 0.59" screen is to be viewed very close to the head (one for each eye). So it is not the size of the screen that matters in this case but rather the perceived size of the image that you actually see, which I guess would have to be pretty big in order to fully immerse you into the game. I've not actually viewed one, but for their claim of effectively putting you 'inside' the game to be effective it would have to be like viewing a 30" monitor 20" from the face at the very least! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
andersson
Jun 4 2006, 09:05
Hmm, yes. Thats true.
Do you think that when its 2 800x600 displays that you will experience it as better resolution?
Explanation..: With shutterglasses you can use 800x600 and get the impression that it is 1600x1200 because of the "2" pictures.
Journeyman
Jun 4 2006, 10:49
I guess that the way it works is a bit like Balschoiw suggests that the 3D effect in some way compensates for the lower resolution. Also the fact that you are not seeing the precise same picture with each eye would probably have the effect of blurring out the larger pixels. The question is though does this 3D compensatory effect give you a satisfactory higher resolution on this perceived ultra large image enough to satisfy people like myself who always like to play at resolutions of 1280 or higher? I think that someone is gonna have to be our guinea pig tester and go and buy one so that they can give us some feedback on these displays in a brand new thread! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
However, the fact that these 3D head visor displays are not taking off like hot cakes prompts a certain suspicion from me!
Track Ir on the other hand is making big sales and more and more game developers are making their games compatible with them! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
What is the future of virtual reality displays? .... I guess we will all just have to wait and see! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
Go buy one of these displays andersson and let us all know what they are like! .... Oh, and most of all if they are worth that price tag! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
andersson
Jun 4 2006, 12:12
Quote[/b] ]Go buy one of these displays andersson and let us all know what they are like!
I would love to but I must find me a better job first.. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
I`m thinking of writing to 3dguru.com and ask them if its possible for them to try. They are always trying out new things...
Quote[/b] ]However, the fact that these 3D head visor displays are not taking off like hot cakes prompts a certain suspicion from me!
Thats why I do not dare to buy one too....
However, the fact that these 3D head visor displays are not taking off like hot cakes prompts a certain suspicion from me!
One reason why those shutter glasses never became mainstream: you need a monitor capable of running at 100Hz (preferably higher) at a good resolution (i.e. 1024x768 or higher) and you need a gfx card (and driver) with support for 3d stereo that is fast enough to render twice the number of images while still keeping the fps high enough.
If the monitor's doesn't support high refresh rates you quickly get an headache, and if the gfx card's to slow you get low fps - and if the driver support is bad or not existing... well, bad luck.
At least to my knowledge only Nvidia supported 3d goggles in some older drivers and it was always a pain in the ass to get it working right. And if you updated your gfx driver... well, bad luck as probably there wasn't a 3d driver for that release.
When you have it working properly it's great. But the existing solutions are crap except under very optimal circumstances.
andersson
Jun 4 2006, 13:37
@<hidden> Yes. I second that!!! I have had much problems with my shutterglasses! And then I bought an ATI-card without thinking and they do not support them.... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif
But
Quote[/b] ]However, the fact that these 3D head visor displays are not taking off like hot cakes prompts a certain suspicion from me!
That is not about shutterglasses, that is about the VR-helmets with two separate displays. And I`m very curious about them (especially this one (http://www.3dvisor.com/)) as the price for one of them is about the same as a good monitor, a pair of shutterglasses and trackir.
The shutterglasses are very cheap on ebay (probably because so many people had problems with them - i got mine for 10 Euros two years ago...), and you need a monitor for your computer anyways - which is why it's a bit unrealistic to add that into the calculation, too.
If prices drop into the 200-300 Euros range with proper support (if nescessary) by at least ATI and Nvidia, then I'm sure there's quite a market for such vr devices. Until then it's a lot of money (read: too much) for the casual gamer (which is the majority of potential customers) and people (me included) are more willing to shell out 100 - 180 Euros for a track ir only and rather invest the rest in a better gfx card, for the time being.
andersson
Jun 4 2006, 19:35
Yeah.. I suppose you`re right. But it would be nice to try it... (Must get a better job to afford every gadget I "need"... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif )
edit: had to add an interesting link about z800 (http://www.joystiq.com/2005/05/19/emagin-e3-z800-3d-visor/)
edit again: it wasnt that interesting... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif
edit once again: a review (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1879592,00.asp). I think the answer for me is; not yet but the technology is soon there. (3dguru link (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=1780000#post1780000))
bravo 6
Jun 15 2006, 09:35
had to add an interesting link about z800 (http://www.joystiq.com/2005/05/19/emagin-e3-z800-3d-visor/)
a review (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1879592,00.asp)
(3dguru link (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=1780000#post1780000))
I just seen the new video with Trackir for ARMA (http://blog.pcformat.co.uk/?entry=armed_assault_trackir_video) (17mb)
I want to buy 1 for me for sure!
But i need to read more about it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Will we have more angle vision
edit: how much € will it cost?
wolfsatar
Jun 15 2006, 10:00
interesting device ... good push for more realistic combats ^^
but would i buy it for 129 $ ... ? ill wont pay over 100 € for that ...
bravo 6
Jun 15 2006, 10:04
interesting device ... good push for more realistic combats ^^
but would i buy it for 129 $ ... ? ill wont pay over 100 € for that ...
yeah, will the Trackir be more expensive then the game itself? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/goodnight.gif
EDIT: would be nice to have a Trackir video in chopper http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
@<hidden> Moderators: Could this title topic be changed? (Track ir Videos and INFO or something like that? (or diff more complete))
because seem like this subject are invading other threads http://bravocompany.home.sapo.pt/smiles/classic_tongue.png
funnyguy1
Jun 15 2006, 13:34
Nice vid, I hope we`ll see more soon...
Arma has 2d iron sights so looking around while in IS view won`t be possible? I still wonder if we`ll be able to move your head forward and backward to manipulate our fov and the IS/scope size on the screen...
VISTREL
Jun 15 2006, 13:37
I'll probably buy it later.
Damn, so much stuff is coming up this year. Armed Assault, Crysis, DirectX 10 video cards, Playstation 3. My wallet is gonna be empty in no time. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
King Haggis
Jun 15 2006, 14:04
Track IR is fantastic. Just got mine one week ago and I already know I never want to part with it. Not until they make something even better that is...
It will specifically come in handy when flying choppers and airplanes in Arma but I think it might be very useful as infantry soldier as well. Especially when you would use it with a hotkey for turning it on or off in-game. When you need a steady aim turn it off, when you want to take a quick peek around you while lying prone (weapon forward) or running, turn it on by holding a hotkey. Also, with vector expansion, one could stand next to a building and peek around a corner. Maybe that could be implemented as well?
Those who are sceptical about Track IR, please try it, I'm sure you'll like it. Remember the days when we played Doom and Wolfenstein? You didn't have mouselook back then. When Quake came and mouselook was introduced, most players didn't even use the option at first, but later when everybody got used to it, it became a second nature. The extra axis gave you more speed, precision and immersion. Now Track IR gives you an extra addition to mouse look just what we need for a military combatsim. Please try it, you'll love it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
So I voted "yes" for Track IR support in Arma.
@<hidden> Moderators: Could this title topic be changed? (Track ir Videos and INFO or something like that? (or diff more complete))
It could, but then we'd get 5 new topics about general TIR discussion. I think its better leave it as it is. After all, it is the only TIR topic.
Kegetys
Jun 15 2006, 14:12
Those who are sceptical about Track IR, please try it, I'm sure you'll like it.
I will if you'll buy me one http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Looks nice, however for $180 ArmA should support vector expansion - leaning and vertical movement of upper body (damn usefull for shooting through windows, etc). Looking around itself doesn't justify it's cost for people who don't regulary play fligh or racing sims.
King Haggis
Jun 15 2006, 14:29
Quote[/b] ]Quote (King Haggis @<hidden> June 15 2006,17:04)
Those who are sceptical about Track IR, please try it, I'm sure you'll like it.
I will if you'll buy me one
LOL, sorry but mine was 185,- Euro's (Track IR 4 Pro) and now I have to work overtime to survive this month but it was worth it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
But, feel free to drop by my house whenever you visit The Netherlands to give Track IR4 a try.
Heatseeker
Jun 15 2006, 14:49
Just saw the movie and honestly i only see it being usefull for vehicles, not something i would spend more than 50€ at and not very usefull for the infantry side of the game.
I also saw that the weapon model still jerks like OPF, its very noticeable and quite dispointing to see the rifle jerking on the player's hands since they were supposed to have fixed the colision/clipping problems http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif .
maxqubit
Jun 15 2006, 15:01
yeah, will the Trackir be more expensive then the game itself?
What about mouse, keyboard, gfx card, monitor, cooling devices, hdd, cpu, well you name it?
TrackIR is just an extra in the list above. I see no money argument. It costs money, but so do all the other things in the list.
Imo it is absolutely brilliant (i would love to see this in combination with ofp:e styled controller interface freeing up the damned keyboard+mouse almost alltogether ... but then again, i'm a console junkie:)
Looks nice, however for $180 ArmA should support vector expansion - leaning and vertical movement of upper body (damn usefull for shooting through windows, etc). Looking around itself doesn't justify it's cost for people who don't regulary play fligh or racing sims.
@<hidden>
ArmA does have full vector expansion. You can zoom in by leaning forward and lean left and right around corners by tilting your head. Hopefully I'll be posting another video demonstrating those aspects soon.
It is an expensive bit of kit for the limited number of games that support it, but if I know OFP fans (and I count myself among that group) then you'll be playing ArmA a whole lot more than any other game (I do, and I write about games for a living http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif ).
With that in mind the actual use you get out of a TrackIR relative to the hours you play OFP (or rather ArmA) it's actually good value for money. Buy one! They're ace!
@<hidden>
Excellent! Cant wait to see the video. Leaning that way is something that really helps in street fights (which I believe we will see more in ArmA, cause towns seems to be a bit bigger than in OFP). What about vertical movement? I always kinda hated shooting through 1st floor or higher windows in OFP, cause my FOV was either small (people running towards me / under the lower window line), or too much of my body was exposed throught it.
if the game turns out to be far more better then we through, maybe buying one of these doesnt sounds that expensive at all http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif
[DsO] ShapeShifter
Jun 15 2006, 17:51
ill buy TrackIR tomorrow http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
Scruffy
Jun 15 2006, 18:49
Looks nice, however for $180 ArmA should support vector expansion - leaning and vertical movement of upper body (damn usefull for shooting through windows, etc). Looking around itself doesn't justify it's cost for people who don't regulary play fligh or racing sims.
@<hidden>
ArmA does have full vector expansion. You can zoom in by leaning forward and lean left and right around corners by tilting your head. Hopefully I'll be posting another video demonstrating those aspects soon.
It is an expensive bit of kit for the limited number of games that support it, but if I know OFP fans (and I count myself among that group) then you'll be playing ArmA a whole lot more than any other game (I do, and I write about games for a living http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif ).
With that in mind the actual use you get out of a TrackIR relative to the hours you play OFP (or rather ArmA) it's actually good value for money. Buy one! They're ace!
Does this mean you can have a Ravenshield like fluid stance and can choose how far I want to lean? That would be really great. Even "normal" leaning through the TrackIR would be nice, but on the official list on the TrackIR site (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html) it doesn't show X and Y axis to be supported.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to that video and I think I'll get one of these things whe ArmA comes out.
Does this mean you can have a Ravenshield like fluid stance and can choose how far I want to lean?
No, TrackIR does not controll lean. Think of it as controlling your neck, not your whole upper body.
ArmA doesnt support full Vector (6DOF). It supports normal panning left/right/up/down plus yaw and zoom. It does not support the lean-function which is the only part of Vector it doesnt support.
The fluid stance in Ravenshield adjusts your whole upper body, not just your head.
Journeyman
Jun 15 2006, 20:15
Does this mean you can have a Ravenshield like fluid stance and can choose how far I want to lean?
No, TrackIR does not controll lean. Think of it as controlling your neck, not your whole upper body.
ArmA doesnt support full Vector (6DOF). It supports normal panning left/right/up/down plus yaw and zoom. It does not support the lean-function which is the only part of Vector it doesnt support.
The fluid stance in Ravenshield adjusts your whole upper body, not just your head.
Yaw, pitch, roll and zoom. Check it here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html) (second game down). And on a recent screeny of the new GUI for ArmA it showed the option of assigning 'roll' in Track ir to the lean function in ArmA.
Yaw, pitch, roll and zoom. Check it here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html) (second game down). And on a recent screeny of the new GUI for ArmA it showed the option of assigning 'roll' in Track ir to the lean function in ArmA.
I used that page as reference.
If BIS use YAW as lean left and right they are'nt using the TIR correctly. YAW is not the same as lean.
The X and Y in that table which are not supported by ArmA are the actual lean functions. YAW is the same kind of movement as when you push a flightstick left and right.
But I'm not going to argue. I'll find out soon enough how it works in-game.
Journeyman
Jun 15 2006, 21:28
Yaw, pitch, roll and zoom. Check it here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html) (second game down). And on a recent screeny of the new GUI for ArmA it showed the option of assigning 'roll' in Track ir to the lean function in ArmA.
I used that page as reference.
If BIS use YAW as lean left and right they are'nt using the TIR correctly. YAW is not the same as lean.
The X and Y in that table which are not supported by ArmA are the actual lean functions. YAW is the same kind of movement as when you push a flightstick left and right.
But I'm not going to argue. I'll find out soon enough how it works in-game.
I can't find that screen now but I remember it showing an assignment options screen in ArmA and the there was an option for soldier lean/peek to be assigned to Track ir 'roll'. Roll is same as tilt Shadow, maybe your confusing the different head movements, ...it's confused me enough times! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
yeah, will the Trackir be more expensive then the game itself?
What about mouse, keyboard, gfx card, monitor, cooling devices, hdd, cpu, well you name it?
TrackIR is just an extra in the list above. I see no money argument. It costs money, but so do all the other things in the list.
Imo it is absolutely brilliant (i would love to see this in combination with ofp:e styled controller interface freeing up the damned keyboard+mouse almost alltogether ... but then again, i'm a console junkie:)
uh, TBH that was crappy examples. Playing OFP without mouse would be hell...it would be more a pain in the ass than fun. Playing OFP without a keyboard would be impossible (unless you had a gamepad or something like that, which would suck for infantry part), playing OFP without a monitor would be quite hard ( http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif ), playing OFP without cooling devices, HDD, CPU, gfx card wouldn't be possible...playing OFP without Track IR would be both fun and possible. The only thing about track IR is that it might make it a bit more fun, but I doubt it's worth 185€...playing OFP on a special made 350 inch screen would probably be fun, but it wouldn't be worth it, and the screen wouldn't be as vital as any of the components you mentioned http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif
Uziyahu--IDF
Jun 16 2006, 02:02
Has anyone tried coupling TrackIR with a Fresnel Lens?
If so, what do you think?
I don't see why it shouldnt work. You put the TIR infront of the lens anyway. The only thing that might cause issues would be the lens itself, depending on how it is to use when you constantly move your head.
Journeyman
Jun 16 2006, 08:29
Has anyone tried coupling TrackIR with a Fresnel Lens?
If so, what do you think?
It works brilliantly! The only thing you have to do is to move the Track ir to somewhere higher up so that it can see over the top of the lens. I've got shelving at the back of my desk so it went up there! Or you could put it on top of the lens if you constructed a box for the lens.
Flying in FS2004 and IL2 Sturmovik has never been so realistic! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
maxqubit
Jun 16 2006, 09:05
yeah, will the Trackir be more expensive then the game itself?
What about mouse, keyboard, gfx card, monitor, cooling devices, hdd, cpu, well you name it?
TrackIR is just an extra in the list above. I see no money argument. It costs money, but so do all the other things in the list.
Imo it is absolutely brilliant (i would love to see this in combination with ofp:e styled controller interface freeing up the damned keyboard+mouse almost alltogether ... but then again, i'm a console junkie:)
uh, TBH that was crappy examples. Playing OFP without mouse would be hell...it would be more a pain in the ass than fun. Playing OFP without a keyboard would be impossible (unless you had a gamepad or something like that, which would suck for infantry part), playing OFP without a monitor would be quite hard ( :whi: ), playing OFP without cooling devices, HDD, CPU, gfx card wouldn't be possible...playing OFP without Track IR would be both fun and possible. The only thing about track IR is that it might make it a bit more fun, but I doubt it's worth 185€...playing OFP on a special made 350 inch screen would probably be fun, but it wouldn't be worth it, and the screen wouldn't be as vital as any of the components you mentioned :yay:
Your arguments are too conservative. Imho OFP is about fun/realistic immersion into war. For me the more immersion, the better the game. TrackIR is a step towards more immersion therefor it can be regarded as just as essential as the other stuff on my list.
And you can get rid of most of the stuff on the list ... you end up with a dvd player and watch a movie:) (or perhaps leave of the techno altogether and end up with a book:) That's why you want a mouse+keyboard and stuff, to be part of that movie ... and that's why i would like to have something like TrackIR, to be even more into the game.
Well, you can get rid of most of the things in a car, and end up with a nice leather chair, but that takes away the meaning with the car, and you've spent damn lot of money on some chairs http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif of course TIR can add fun to the game, but for me 185 euro sounds too much. I don't think the added fun will be worth it, at least not when I've got soooo much I can use that money on instead.
well wtf...my euro thingy doesn't work http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
€ <---that's supposed to be that euro mark thingy... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif
maxqubit
Jun 16 2006, 09:22
Money doesn't grow on trees with me either:) but if you are more of a 1 game gamer (TrackIR is the same price as 4 games) it can well be worth the investment.
whisper
Jun 16 2006, 09:23
Money doesn't grow on trees with me either:) but if you are more of a 1 game gamer (TrackIR is the same price as 4 games) it can well be worth the investment.
Exactly. TIR is really good with flight simulators, so if you play this on top of ArmA, it's worth it
Money doesn't grow on trees with me either:) but if you are more of a 1 game gamer (TrackIR is the same price as 4 games) it can well be worth the investment.
Exactly. TIR is really good with flight simulators, so if you play this on top of ArmA, it's worth it
I don't play flight sims. Actually, I don't play many games with vehicles, except OFP. The games I usually play is OFP, Football Manager, Baldurs Gate II ( http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif ), Heroes and some FPS games. I tend to play the more realistic FPS games, like SWAT. Played CoD2 (but I don't like it as much as I like CoD), so uninstalled it. And as you see, it's mostly FPS (when I feel like having some brainless shooting), tactical games etc...no use for TIR in my type of games really. But of course, if somebody feels like giving me one, feel free to PM me http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/thumbs-up.gif
MessiahUA
Jun 16 2006, 13:54
Written on PC Format Blog (http://blog.pcformat.co.uk/page/pcformat?entry=armed_assault_trackir_video):
Quote[/b] ]Hopefully tomorrow we'll post one showing off the lateral leaning and zooming that's possible with the Track IR 4 or Vector expansion pack for Track IR 3.
What's that? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif Leaning? But arma doesn't support x and y translation and someone said, that leaning is not what tir should do...
telejunky
Jun 16 2006, 14:00
But what about the TOP TV vid? Did they used TIR?
http://home.arcor.de/bodzguard/aa/top_tv1.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/bodzguard/aa/top_tv2.jpg
NeMeSiS
Jun 16 2006, 14:08
Written on PC Format Blog (http://blog.pcformat.co.uk/page/pcformat?entry=armed_assault_trackir_video):
Quote[/b] ]Hopefully tomorrow we'll post one showing off the lateral leaning and zooming that's possible with the Track IR 4 or Vector expansion pack for Track IR 3.
What's that? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif Leaning? But arma doesn't support x and y translation and someone said, that leaning is not what tir should do...
IIRC you lean when you use the iron sights, and try to look left, buti might be wrong http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
meyamoti
Jun 16 2006, 16:29
Written on PC Format Blog (http://blog.pcformat.co.uk/page/pcformat?entry=armed_assault_trackir_video):
Quote[/b] ]Hopefully tomorrow we'll post one showing off the lateral leaning and zooming that's possible with the Track IR 4 or Vector expansion pack for Track IR 3.
What's that? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif Leaning? But arma doesn't support x and y translation and someone said, that leaning is not what tir should do...
Leaning will probably have to be done via keyboard but you can probably still use TrackIR to look around once you are leaning.
Placebo
Jun 16 2006, 16:59
But what about the TOP TV vid? Did they used TIR?
[ig]http://home.arcor.de/bodzguard/aa/top_tv1.jpg[/img]
[im]http://home.arcor.de/bodzguard/aa/top_tv2.jpg[/img]
No they didn't, footage they aired was of me playing with regular keyboard/mouse http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Big Dawg KS
Jun 16 2006, 17:30
In the right hands, a mouse and keyboard will get you just as far as all that fancy gaming hardware. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
maxqubit
Jun 16 2006, 18:27
Plz expand your horizon. Do you seriously think evolution stopped in 200x with the advent of mouse and keyboard as THE input for a.o. playing games? :)
And ppl tend to forget the table that goes with it. So it is mouse + keyboard + table as human ultimate answer to 'How to play a proper fps' LOL:)
Ok, so it's OT, but BIS made progress by designing OFP:E with the controller as input device:)
Strango
Jun 16 2006, 19:24
In the right hands, a mouse and keyboard will get you just as far as all that fancy gaming hardware. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
TrackIR for infantry use in ArmA will be about the same as it is for racing games. It's not going to make you a better player and give you an advantage over people who don't have it, but it will add to the immersion factor a ton. In racing games you have your look left and look right keys to survey your sides. In OFP you have keys to look around. TrackIR just lets you have a floating view of looking around which adds to the feeling of being in the game.
Now where TrackIR will give players an advantage is with aircraft. Yes you can use the HAT to look around, but it's not smooth. When you're in a fast moving vehicle having an independent smooth view adds another level of awareness that you just can't get any other way.
Does everyone need to go out and buy a TrackIR? No. Do you have some extra cash and want to add to your ArmA experience? If Yes I suggest you buy one. You won't regret it.
I can't think of any better way than playing FPS with than with a mouse as the "aiming device". All other forms for controll won't give the accuracy that a mouse will give. Some may mean that a PS/Xbox controller is better, but no matter how good you are with a xbox controller, a person who's good with a mouse will be able to aim accurately much much faster (I actually got video proof from CoD2, a shot made by a mate of mine. There is no way in hell anybody could move the sight as fast as that with a controller).
So, I agree with Kyle...mouse and keyboard for me, even though I may sometime have the money for TIR.
I can't think of any better way than playing FPS with than with a mouse as the "aiming device".
But the TIR is not a aiming device. Its a viewing device.
The only benefit a TIR user might get over a non-TIR user is added situational awareness because the TIR user will look more around himself simply because it takes absolutely no effort to do so. Other than that its like Strango says, its an immersion-booster.
bravo 6
Jun 16 2006, 20:10
does this Track Ir glasses cause any anoyment/pains in the head if used for several hours?
I really like to buy it but i need to know if it creats some second effects.. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif
anyone experienced bad moments with it?
Will the image be as clear and nitid as the one in the screen?
I can't think of any better way than playing FPS with than with a mouse as the "aiming device".
But the TIR is not a aiming device. Its a viewing device.
The only benefit a TIR user might get over a non-TIR user is added situational awareness because the TIR user will look more around himself simply because it takes absolutely no effort to do so. Other than that its like Strango says, its an immersion-booster.
I know it is a viewing device, it was a comment on maxquibits sentence:
Quote[/b] ]So it is mouse + keyboard + table as human ultimate answer to 'How to play a proper fps'
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Strango
Jun 16 2006, 20:20
With TrackIR you use a hat. There's 3 reflectors on the hat (for the ones that support vectoring). So as long as you don't have a problem wearing a hat then you shouldn't have any secondary effects.
Without vectoring you just need one reflector. They will give you a bunch of stickies you can use and stick them anywhere that will move with your head. You can also use the hat if you like.
bravo 6
Jun 16 2006, 20:31
im been looking for info and images and i noticed there are different Trackir's
TrackIR-4-PRO (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-TrackIR-4-PRO.html), TrackIR-3-PRO (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-TrackIR-3-PRO.html) and this one in the E3 eMagin Z800 3DVisor Stereoscopic Headset (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1879592,00.asp) -> it's Video (http://zdpub.vo.llnwd.net/o2/ET/reviews/eMagine.html)
there are much more Trackir but look too much expensive.. http://bravocompany.home.sapo.pt/smiles/classic_tongue.png
Wich one is better? Can anyone help, plz? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
edit: remember: Play only 1 hour with it or your head will start to hurt..
1 hour?! yeah right.. http://bravocompany.home.sapo.pt/smiles/classic_blackteeth.png 1 mission in average takes me an entire hour, I need to think twice about this extra..
I bet people will play arma for more then 4 hours straight.. I will for sure..
Strango
Jun 16 2006, 20:46
I haven't used the eMagin so I can't comment on it other than what's in the video. It appears to be an aiming device that you use in place of your mouse which is totally different from what TrackIR is.
With TrackIR the first question is what other games are you going to use this with? If you are only going to use it for ArmA I'd suggest just getting the TrackIR-3-PRO. You won't get vectoring with the TrackIR-3-PRO unless you also buy the Vector PRO upgrade. As of right now I don't know how much the vector expansion will add to ArmA. We need to wait for Shins to release his next video. If you are leaning toward getting the Vector expansion it's best to pay the little extra money and just buy a TrackIR4-PRO which already comes with Vector support. For the extra money you get a larger sensor that can read in a larger area. With the other you need to take more care when you center your view in the software. Due to the limited area you need to insure that your chair is centered with the sensor that you'll place (most likely) on your monitor.
bravo 6
Jun 16 2006, 21:00
I haven't used the eMagin so I can't comment on it other than what's in the video. It appears to be an aiming device that you use in place of your mouse which is totally different from what TrackIR is.
from what i seen/heared from the video, the fat man said the mouse and keyboard will work aswell and that eMagin Z800 3DVisor Stereoscopic Headset will only work to see things around, when you more your head the image will also move, so i think the eMagins is like the other TrackIr's?
Correct me if im wrong.
If i buy an TrackIr, i will use it only for ARMA, at least thats the main idea.
Strango
Jun 16 2006, 21:06
Well he says that, but if you look at gameplay in the video he's always looking straight ahead and the crosshair for where the gun is going to hit is always in the middle of the screen.
bravo 6
Jun 16 2006, 21:09
maybe the fat man should test that eMagin Z800 3DVisor with ARMA demo from E3... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
edit: anyway does anyone knows what kinda trackir was used in that TrackIR demo we seen recently about ARMA?
deanosbeano
Jun 16 2006, 21:13
track ir3
Quote[/b] ]We've put together a little video showing off some of the things you can do with Naturalpoint's TrackIR head tracking system. This first video was made with the Track IR 3 and shows the basic head movements. Hopefully tomorrow we'll post one showing off the lateral leaning and zooming that's possible with the Track IR 4 or Vector expansion pack for Track IR 3.
Enjoy the vid.
Strango
Jun 16 2006, 21:15
When the video starts it says he is using a TrackIR-3.
His next video is suppose to show what the Vector Expansion will be able to do in the game.
bravo 6
Jun 16 2006, 21:25
this hardware looks so fragile http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
Maybe the game we see in that video is just like BF2 and others where your not able to look arround with your head and have your weapon still http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
andersson
Jun 16 2006, 22:12
I do not have a trackIR nor a z800 but I have done some research (will buy a trackIr some day).
@<hidden>: I´m sure the trackIR will not give you headace or anything.
But alittle info about the z800:
Quote[/b] ]It appears to be an aiming device that you use in place of your mouse which is totally different from what TrackIR is.
Nope, its not totally different.
The z800 is a combination of stereo-glasses (to small displays instead of a monitor that will give a 3d effect) and something similar to TrackIR (instead of ir it works with gyros).
So it has the same function as TrackIR but with added 3d.
From what I have read about z800 its one of the most promising VR products. But the things that I do not like (besides price...) is that the displays only have a resolution of 800x600. I also read that there is a small delay tracking the headmovements from the gyros (not as fast as trackir).
They recommend to take a break after one hour because, that the combination of info from the virtual world and inner ear can be confusing for your brain. The small delay from the gyros do not make it better.. That MAY make you sick.
I might consider to buy one when it has higher resolution and as fast head tracking as trackIR as it must be one of the better immersion-gadgets.
maxqubit
Jun 16 2006, 22:45
Well with the Z800 being at 4-5x the price of TrackIR, i will start my 'immersion' trip with the TrackIR. I said before the money can't be an argument, but i have to admit that $900 is out of my league.
But i would love to try one of those Z800's with ArmA.
Edit: I see that Z800 is selling for $550 now ... still 3x TrackIR but it is interesting.
_Aragon_
Jun 17 2006, 10:14
it is nice to see that track IR is in Armed Assault.
I love the Armed Assault TrackIR preview at http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-videos.html
P.S that Black Shark preview below the Armed Assault one comes in a massive 107MB download (DVD quality but 4:3 aspect) on the www.lockon.ru impressive stuff but doesn't have the ground element we have in OFP and next Armed Assault.
Espectro
Jun 22 2006, 10:09
YAY!
Just got mine today (TrackIR4:pro). I will be trying it out later, and see how it peforms.
Right not, I only have my laptop (other PC simply burned out (!?) ). I am planning to get a new computer early july, so stay tuned for a review http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Pierrot
Jun 22 2006, 12:20
TrackIR will introduce a lot of benefits to choppers.
A pilot can control the cannon without a gunner. He views a target and just simply pull the trigger on it because the cannon always turns toward as same way as he sees.
A pilot can choose and lock on a primary target among many enemies. He just simply see it and lock it on.
Men, is there any ideal way of using TrackIR? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Espectro
Jun 22 2006, 12:42
TrackIR will introduce a lot of benefits to choppers.
A pilot can control the cannon without a gunner. He views a target and just simply pull the trigger on it because the cannon always turns toward as same way as he sees.
A pilot can choose and lock on a primary target among many enemies. He just simply see it and lock it on.
Men, is there any ideal way of using TrackIR? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
I never thought of that... YAY!
MessiahUA
Jun 22 2006, 13:04
A pilot can choose and lock on a primary target among many enemies. He just simply see it and lock it on.
Another superb function for trackir http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
That's what you can't do in heli or plane flying with joystik in OPF.
A pilot can control the cannon without a gunner.
No.
In theory, yes. But its not a viable option. The TIR doesnt have the resolution required to be that accurate.
Its best kept to be used for panning your view and its awesome at that.
tonik_tzw
Jun 27 2006, 12:59
A pilot can control the cannon without a gunner.
No.
In theory, yes. But its not a viable option. The TIR doesnt have the resolution required to be that accurate.
Its best kept to be used for panning your view and its awesome at that.
You should try the SU27(?) in LOMAC with the helmet mounted sight to test out its ability to track and lock targets.
The helmet reticule is circular and its more than easy enough to track and lock a target using TrackIR and IMHO, its more precise than using a joystick hat switch to look around or try to lock a target.
My only disagreement would be allowing the pilot to control weapons and guns on Helicopters as realistically, its the job of the CoPilot/Gunner to do this.
Having the ability to use TrackIR as CPG will make the experience more realistic and again, add to the tactics used by players in game.
You should try the SU27(?) in LOMAC with the helmet mounted sight to test out its ability to track and lock targets.
I'm aware of the targetting mode but the Russian planes dont interest me. I fly the Hog exclusively in LOMAC:FC.
Quote[/b] ]My only disagreement would be allowing the pilot to control weapons and guns on Helicopters as realistically, its the job of the CoPilot/Gunner to do this.
All modern gunships have redundant flight and weapons controll. Both Pilot and CP/G can do each others tasks.
Quote[/b] ]Having the ability to use TrackIR as CPG will make the experience more realistic and again, add to the tactics used by players in game.
And make the CP/G tear his hair off. The TIR is not accurate enough to use as a aiming device. The helmet-system in LOMAC does not recquire pin-point accuracy where as in OFP/ArmA you want to be as accurate as you would with the mouse aiming a rifle. I tried. The TIR is a viewing device, not a aiming device.
New ArmA video showing off TrackIR in use!
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir....lt.html (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/game-armed-assault.html)
deanosbeano
Jun 27 2006, 19:25
hmm its the one from pcformat last month.
bravo 6
Jun 27 2006, 19:26
New ArmA video showing off TrackIR in use!
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir....lt.html (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/game-armed-assault.html)
isnt this the old video? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/huh.gif
Ooops, srry, didn't realise it was old
DaSquade
Jul 4 2006, 19:26
Been interested in a set of TrackIR pro's for some time now (i used to play LOMAC alot). Now that i know ArmA will finally fully support it, i ordered me one yesterday...i directly went for the TrackIR pro 4.
Anyway, afaik it isn't support by OFP/VBS atm, but i thought i read some time ago in this or an other topic someone had it running in OFP. I can't seam to find that info anymore...
I will have it here in a few days (hopefully), so i was wondering if anybody can help me out on some additional info who they got it to work under OFP(/VBS).
Anyway, i hope it is as good as people say, but i'm pretty sure it will be a new dimension (as i used the free look mode a lot)...
[starts to pull out the ALT key of keyboard http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif ]
The only way to use the TIR in OFP is by using a 3rd-party tool to make the TIR emulate the mouse. This is a very bad solution because you have no center reference-point, but its the only solution if you must use the TIR in a game that doesnt support it. In Arma this will be a thing of the past since it will support TIR natively like just another set of analogue axis (think joystick).
Espectro
Jul 4 2006, 19:55
The only way to use the TIR in OFP is by using a 3rd-party tool to make the TIR emulate the mouse. This is a very bad solution because you have no center reference-point, but its the only solution if you must use the TIR in a game that doesnt support it. In Arma this will be a thing of the past since it will support TIR natively like just another set of analogue axis (think joystick).
I use trackmapper to map the numkeys... this way I can look around in ofp using it.
For those who use trackir....
I am currently looking at getting the trackir 4 pro but am not sure what all I need to buy. does the trackir 4 pro come with everything a person would need to use it with armed assault? or do I need to buy some of the stickers and other items they sell on thier site?
Journeyman
Jul 4 2006, 23:39
For those who use trackir....
I am currently looking at getting the trackir 4 pro but am not sure what all I need to buy. does the trackir 4 pro come with everything a person would need to use it with armed assault? or do I need to buy some of the stickers and other items they sell on thier site?
You get the device which sits on your monitor (or where ever) complete with USB cable, you get a metal clip with reflectors on it that clips onto a cap or your head phones and you get the software on a CD! That’s all you need! You might want to buy their cap but any cap with a peek will do or use your headphones like me. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
For those who use trackir....
I am currently looking at getting the trackir 4 pro but am not sure what all I need to buy. does the trackir 4 pro come with everything a person would need to use it with armed assault? or do I need to buy some of the stickers and other items they sell on thier site?
You get the device which sits on your monitor (or where ever) complete with USB cable, you get a metal clip with reflectors on it that clips onto a cap or your head phones and you get the software on a CD! That’s all you need! You might want to buy their cap but any cap with a peek will do or use your headphones like me. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Thanks for the reply. Im going to order one up right now. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif
For those who use trackir....
I am currently looking at getting the trackir 4 pro but am not sure what all I need to buy. does the trackir 4 pro come with everything a person would need to use it with armed assault? or do I need to buy some of the stickers and other items they sell on thier site?
You get the device which sits on your monitor (or where ever) complete with USB cable, you get a metal clip with reflectors on it that clips onto a cap or your head phones and you get the software on a CD! That’s all you need! You might want to buy their cap but any cap with a peek will do or use your headphones like me. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Can you post a picture of the TrackClip attached to your headphones? Does it look wierd? I would prefer not to have to use a hat (I'm not a fan of hats).
Also, how does the device sit on your monitor? My monitor is angled up as far as the base will let it, so will I have to tape the TrackIR device to my monitor?
Journeyman
Jul 5 2006, 09:01
http://www.fotocraft.org.uk/images/tir4pro.jpg
The sensor device has claw like feet that will either free stand like in the pic or clamp onto a frame or something as it has rubber feet that swivel tightly. The clip will go over the peak of a baseball type cap or clip onto the top part of your headphones. Yes it does look weird, if that bothers you! My wife thinks that I look like a butterfly! Personally I don’t care about things like that as I don't have any mirrors near for me to look in! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
Oh, and the pen is just for scale! The whole thing is quite tiny! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
My wife thinks that I look like a butterfly!
LOL! I guess I would rather look like a butterfly then wear a hat, lol.
Man, that thing is really small. And thx for the pic. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
Sniper Pilot
Jul 6 2006, 09:17
LOL i was like damn thats big! then i realized that theres a pen! DOH! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/banghead.gif getting late here...
tonik_tzw
Jul 6 2006, 10:21
I've had mine a while now and like it a lot. I was surprised and kinda disappointed at the same time when I saw how small it was!!
The company had sent it in a much larger box filled with packing foam to make sure it didnt get damaged. Its amazing how something so small can do so much.
One downside I have noticed is that it can sometimes be affected by bright sunlight shining off walls. I always use the tools in the setup to make sure there are no bright spots behind me to throw it off.
DaSquade
Jul 6 2006, 16:06
Got mine today!
Sorry to drag this offtopic again (delete it mods if you feel it is needed).
@<hidden>: what 3rd party tool do you use to emulate the mouse to trackIR? Somehow that looks reasonable and the best (haven't tested so don't know). I know someone that uses the same i guess, but haven't seen him to ask. Not sure if the center reference is needed (again, can't really tell without testing it out ingame i guess), but i suppose most of the shooting is done through the scope and hopefully that isn't overwritten by trackIR.
@<hidden>: tried you "trackmapper", but it wasn't any good imho. Since it works with predifined zones connected to your tracker, it doesn't work that good as it should (then the old ALT + mouse option standard in OFP is better imho). Also i couldn't define the centerzone, so when you use tracker is goes in zones of 90° (see numlock views) and no way i can go back to centerview. You can but only when moving forward + moving mouse and even then it doesn't work that great.
So in case somebody can help onnon-supported games, plz do.
ONTOPIC again: tested it in LockOn, http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/thumbs-up.gif oh boy is it worth the money...! Can't wait for AmrA. I use the free look mode a lot (in VBS/OFP) and imho a game without it is just plain arcade and just doesn't feel right.
Thanks BIS for integrading this piece of hardware.
what 3rd party tool do you use to emulate the mouse to trackIR? Somehow that looks reasonable and the best (haven't tested so don't know).
It's not a 3rd party tool, look in the directory where you installed TrackIR and there will be a file called TIRMouse.exe. Be sure to run the regular .exe first as this program works in addition to it. While TIRMouse is running your TrackIR will control your mouse (even in the OS).
Learn something every day I guess http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif
I was'nt aware N.point had finally put the mouse-emulation back in. Thanks for the reminder, Strango.
@<hidden>: As Strango say, you can use the built-in mouse-emulation, but be prepared to fall out of your chair while trying to recenter http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif
Since it works exactly like a mouse it doesnt have a center point. That means if you move the cursor to the edge of the screen and keep moving your head in that direction, as soon as you start moving the other way the cursor will emediately start to follow. You'll wear out F12 (default re-center) in no time http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
But since Arma will support TIR it will behave in the same manner as in LOMAC.
DaSquade
Jul 6 2006, 20:37
Thanks for the info (thanks to wildgoose as he pointed out the trackIR mouse emulation before i checked again here).
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif OK, that doesn't help it eather http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif , back to OFP/VBS without trackIR. Imho it isn't helping as it should, but i didn't expect much as it isn't core supported.
Ohwell, more to look out for when ArmA comes out i guess, unless some code goeroe (hmhm..keygets? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif ) get sponsored and comes up with a 3rd party tool that does the job as it should.
Anyway,..was worth the try...back to LockOn or an other game to enjoy the trackIR untill ArmA comes out http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/goodnight.gif .
I mentioned it before but now i have to post a link because it doesn't look like anyone looked up the video clip. People who are still questioning power of TrackIR or those who just want to see how amazing it can be please download and watch this video clip of a WIP addon for LOMAC called Blackshark.
It is available on http://www.lockon.ru/index.p....lang=en (http://www.lockon.ru/index.php?end_pos=133&scr=products&lang=en)
Unfortunatly you have to register to download "Black Shark: Free Flight" but it is well worth the effort. This is not the same trailer that is on the TrackIR website.
It all depends on what games you play. Remember though your not going to be able to do 6DOF in ArmA. Right now on the trackIR website it just mentions 4 (Yaw,Pitch,Roll,Z). It does not support X and Y (moving your head up/down and left/right). So far, all we have seen from that one video is Yaw and Pitch (I think). If you can justify paying the money for it's use in just ArmA then go ahead. If you also play racing and/or flight sims, this is a must have (So I hear). I am waiting to see how well it's implemented in ArmA before I buy.
EvilNate
Jul 11 2006, 04:47
I think Naturalpoint has made a number of sales from this thread and now they have made another. They even happen to be based not too far from where I live.
The only thing that concerns me is what the replacement warranty might be and how long these things last. I've heard that the TR4 gets awfuly hot.
It all depends on what games you play. Remember though your not going to be able to do 6DOF in ArmA. Right now on the trackIR website it just mentions 4 (Yaw,Pitch,Roll,Z). It does not support X and Y (moving your head up/down and left/right). So far, all we have seen from that one video is Yaw and Pitch (I think). If you can justify paying the money for it's use in just ArmA then go ahead. If you also play racing and/or flight sims, this is a must have (So I hear). I am waiting to see how well it's implemented in ArmA before I buy.
First of all: we once have this (http://www.sg.hu/forumkepek/2006_05/armademo2006-05-1813-53-10-20.jpg). So the "X" axis actually can be the lean left/right.
Second: very difficult the real 6DOF imagine in an FPS game. Just think it over, for "Z" axis, your head and upper body move to front or back. Have you ever seen an FPS game, modelled this movement? Or the Roll (of the head)?
Third: if the ArmA are left enough space to customize your control (wich i bet), then you can set the controls of the TrackIR axis. For example, you can set the "Z" axis for the optics zoom.
^I don’t full understand your post, but I was mainly just responding to Aragon and the video he posted. It uses 6DOF and I wanted to make sure people don’t assume ArmA will have all that free movement that’s shown in that video.
Now, that control menu screen shot from the press demo that you posted; the two lean options are not the "X" axis, it’s “roll” (assuming the data from naturalpoint’s website is correct). If I was to take a stab at how the “roll” will be implemented in ArmA, I would say if you roll your head to a certain degree, your body in-game will lean. Since it doesn’t say “(analog)” it will probably be on/off depending on how much you roll your head. The “Z” axis will probably be some kind of zoom like you said.
It’s not easy to implement 6DOF in a fps, but it would be great if they could at least support 6DOF for flying and driving.
Since it doesn’t say “(analog)” it will probably be on/off depending on how much you roll your head.
We'll have to wait and see, but in OFP:Elite leaning was analog.
I am most definitly considering the Track IR Pro, after seing some of the videos on their website (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/). Check out those car and flight sim videos! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif
It would really add a lot to the immersion of a wargame as well, I am sure of it.
Ive been into the Falcon series for donks and ill definately be getting Track IR4 for Falcon4 AF. With F4AF's widescreen support in 3d its going to be tops on the Dell 24" 1920x1200. This twin CPU ready sim was way ahead of its time and is now awakened.
Yes i would like to see Track IR supported in AA especially in choppers and imagine itll come to infantry FPS's because surely the speed and accuracy from the head beats the same from the hand. Wether Track IR4's tech is at this level yet i dont know but ill be getting one very soon for my flight sim and will report back on applying to FPS's in infantry role etc..
DMarkwick
Jul 13 2006, 20:06
I use TIR regularly for several sims and I can highly recommend it. I had some amount of small success using it in OFP but it wasn't very satisfactory. It definately needs to be natively supported as in AA.
Looking at the video it seems to be mostly implemented as I hoped it would be (in fact I think my post got merged into this one but it must be many pages back) with the exception of lean, which I didn't see any evidence of.
Nice to see that the head view is seperate from the weapon/body direction until the ironsight is raised. Hopefully when the ironsight is raised the TIR is disabled and the view comes under the control of the mouse, but I couldn't tell from the video.
And of course TIR for vehicle driving/piloting is a no-brainer. 6DoF is especially nice for helo flying, enabling you to lean & reach around the cockpit when coming in to land in crowded areas, makes all the difference. But to be honest I'm most excited about the ground soldier implementation of TIR, OFP has always immersed me more than other games and the ability to casually look about without losing your weapon orientation cannot be overstated. I really really hope that full 6DoF has been programmed in, I'd love to be able to lean around a wall/bush/vehicle without having to expose all of me.
And just imagine leaning to the left/right of your weapon when prone, looking for enemy soldiers, just waiting to raise your ironsight up as soon as you spot any. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Kegetys
Jul 20 2006, 14:49
I got myself a TrackIR 4 today despite the high price (148e with shipping). And yes, it is a very impressive device, dogfighting in IL2 is so much different now. I got used to it pretty much immediately, I increased the sensitivity a bit since the default nonlinearity was a bit annoying and felt counter intuitive. In racing sims (Live for Speed) on a quick test it didn't immediately feel as being such a big aid, and it felt it made keeping a good racing line more difficult. But it should help in a racing situation to avoid hitting others.
A problem I noticed quite soon was that when looking upwards, the visor of the cap covers the top reflector of the vector clip and the device stops the tracking immediately. When I then turn my head back down again it quickly jumps to some other position which is quite disorienting. I made it better by bending the vector clip so that the top reflector is higher, but it didn't entirely eliminate the problem.
My current verdict for it is that it is indeed a very impressive device, especially for flight sims. The price is very high though, and I would not recommend using your savings to buy it. But if you happen to have that much extra money then it is a good thing to spend them at, at least if you like flight sims.
Now all I want is a malware free version of LOMAC Flaming Cliffs http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif
Journeyman
Jul 20 2006, 21:18
A problem I noticed quite soon was that when looking upwards, the visor of the cap covers the top reflector of the vector clip and the device stops the tracking immediately. When I then turn my head back down again it quickly jumps to some other position which is quite disorienting. I made it better by bending the vector clip so that the top reflector is higher, but it didn't entirely eliminate the problem.
There are two solutions to this that do not require you to bend the clip. One is simply to mount the sensor somewhere higher so that it looks down at you rather than straight. The other is to use headphones instead of a cap, where the reflector clip is attached to the top of your part of your headphones. I find that when using a cap visor the reflectors tend to look down too much.
Personally I don't like using a cap and went over to using my headphones pretty quickly. Also you get better sounds with phones and you can turn it up loud with out annoying the other half! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
I agree with your verdict on racing sims. I tried it with Live for Speed too and it does take a bit of getting used too in order to keep a good racing line! However, after a while it comes quite natural and looking in the virtual mirror to check behind feels very natural!
I'm hoping for great things here with ArmA and the ability to look around as a soldier on foot as well as driving and flying is hopefully gonna be truly immersive. This device already rocks big time with flight sims!
Kegetys
Jul 25 2006, 03:49
There are two solutions to this that do not require you to bend the clip. One is simply to mount the sensor somewhere higher so that it looks down at you rather than straight.
I tried this by mounting it on the wall looking a bit downwards at me, but it seemed to screw up the Z and Y axes in a way that whenever I moved my head forwards the view also moved downwards at the same time. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif Headphones do not work for me that well since I get better quality with my speakers (And my crappy headphones fall off my head when I look down :P)
But I adjusted the pitch axis so that it is more sensitive, so I do not need to turn my head up that much anymore... Its not as accurate that way though.
Journeyman
Jul 25 2006, 08:23
I tried this by mounting it on the wall looking a bit downwards at me, but it seemed to screw up the Z and Y axes in a way that whenever I moved my head forwards the view also moved downwards at the same time.
Yeah, I suppose that would happen, it hasn't bothered me probably because I do not use the Z-axis movements much. Moving your head forwards in a flight sim would get you nearer your instruments for a clearer view, but wouldn't make much difference to the infinite view out of the window! Also since I mostly sit in a lazy reclined position while at the computer it's just too much effort to lean forwards anyhow! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
According to the Track ir Website (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html) the Y-axis will not be supported in ArmA but I notice that the Z-axis is. I'm not sure how it is gonna be used though, maybe for examining the teeth of your CO! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
sugar_wolf
Jul 25 2006, 10:40
Quote[/b] ]According to the Track ir Website the Y-axis will not be supported in ArmA but I notice that the Z-axis is. I'm not sure how it is gonna be used though, maybe for examining the teeth of your CO
...or maybe for using ironsight mode, wouldn't it be a nice idea ? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Journeyman
Jul 25 2006, 19:19
Quote[/b] ]According to the Track ir Website the Y-axis will not be supported in ArmA but I notice that the Z-axis is. I'm not sure how it is gonna be used though, maybe for examining the teeth of your CO
...or maybe for using ironsight mode, wouldn't it be a nice idea ? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Not sure that I would like that! To me the main purpose of Track ir is to add realism and immersion to a game by simulating the effects of your head movements. If I look right I should look right in game too, looking left with my head will make me see left in game same with up and down and possibly tilting (rolling) left and right to make me lean to peer around objects.
If I then move forwards and suddenly my view becomes an iron sight or a sniper scope that would not be realistic and would not work for me. Personally I would rather leave toggling iron sight view to a mouse/keyboard button, after all this is an action not a view movement and in any case would be a lot easier than moving your head to and fro like some head-banger trying to find his target! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
Maybe it could be used for normal OFP type zoom, but I'm not sure how well that would work either I’d probably still prefer a button for that. Hmm.... I think I would just leave the Z-axis set for examining the teeth of the CO! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
The main thing I think is that all of the Track ir functions in ArmA can be user assigned to suit the preferences of each individual.
New Track IR video up.
Grab it here on the PC Format Blog. (http://blog.pcformat.co.uk/page/pcformat?entry=armed_assault_trackir_video_part)
HotShot
Jul 26 2006, 11:24
That's awesome - i never realised you could control how far you lean using TrackIR too, and look around whilst leaning. Says in the text you can control your Zoom with it too, but didn't see any of that in the video.
Very neat,Thanks for the Video.
Oh and BIS and TrackIR folks,great idea on that 30$ reduction in prize thing. Then again , I am still so not going to buy this product unless it drops below 120$ for their new one. Unfortunately so far I couldn't find any cheap second-hand ones either. Which is a shame since I think this is a great input device , just needs some market competition and mass-production.Well, hopefully that doesn't take years
Very impressed with the animations, this video shows them off far better than we’ve seen previously. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
(Reminds me very much of Raven Shield with the free-leaning ability.)
jammydodger
Jul 26 2006, 15:32
Think I might have to invest in one of these when Arma comes out.
BenceRAP
Jul 26 2006, 15:34
A new video is now available on the PCFormatBlog. This time, the video show alot more the possibilities with leaning using TrackIR device. Even though it is the same Alpha build from E3 as all the other videoes, this is very promising, and features a analog leaning process (so you can lean the exact amount you want, by moving your body).
here (http://blog.pcformat.co.uk/page/pcformat?entry=armed_assault_trackir_video_part)
Average Joe
Jul 26 2006, 15:43
Page before also http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
VISTREL
Jul 26 2006, 17:39
Im buying it right after Arma is released. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif
Journeyman
Jul 26 2006, 17:46
Very nice video that vegetation looked awesome and this is what .... an E3 Demo build? http://www.fotocraft.org.uk/smilies/somersault.gif ... Wow!
As for the head movements it looks like leaning is assignable to the 'roll' axis as I first thought! No more scrabbling for those lean left and lean right keys, just roll your head sideways 'till you can see your target!
I did not see the Z-axis (zoom) feature in the vid though, unless it was assigned to iron sights .... Argh!
westy159
Jul 26 2006, 18:03
Anyone know of a UK site where I can buy Track IR?
Cheers.
Kernriver
Jul 26 2006, 18:19
(Reminds me very much of Raven Shield with the free-leaning ability.)
I hope it will be in ArmA too, so i don't have to buy that rather expencive TrackIR...
Now I have a problem.. My LAN-mates and I are buying Arma and TrackIR. LAN being the problem. If someone's leaning out and shooting and me, I'll have a problem trying NOT to know who is doing it. They'll look a lot like this ----> http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif
peeking around the monitor at me.
BenceRAP
Jul 26 2006, 19:06
Need not to worry. This TrackIR set is not very expensive. If you buy it through BIs, u got a 30% discount. All in all, u can get a set for $150 (USA dollar). However, I'm from Hungary, 30000HUF. I got this info from Espectro (arma.dk, cheers http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif )
Kernriver
Jul 26 2006, 19:18
Need not to worry. This TrackIR set is not very expensive. If you buy it through BIs, u got a 30% discount. All in all, u can get a set for $150 (USA dollar). However, I'm from Hungary, 30000HUF. I got this info from Espectro (arma.dk, cheers http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif )
If ArmA would be delayed for a little bit more, maybe i could earn some money for TrackIR in that time... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
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